Django Quick Start with Schema Evolution Support
Ilias Lazaridis
working to created a Django Quickstart, which will allow even
unexperienced users to see a django site running within their browsers.
This is the first version and I would like to ask for some feedback,
thus this draft version can be made stabe and made more user-friendly:
http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/DjangoProductEvaluation
Your comments are very welcome.
-
This work is part of the following project:
http://case.lazaridis.com/multi
.
Jay Parlar
I thought you would stop bothering Django people after it was revealed
on Django-dev that you're a known Internet troll:
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Ilias
http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.foundation/msg00392.html
Jay P.
Ilias Lazaridis
> Ilias:
>
> I thought you would stop bothering Django people after it was revealed
> on Django-dev that you're a known Internet troll:
This starts to become ridiculous.
You can find the pointers, including several descriptions of past
evaluations within my website:
http://lazaridis.com/core/eval/index.html
-
To this thread:
I've _implemented_ as simple schema evolution for django, which I need
for a personal project with a _deadline_.
I share the results in the open source way with other users, whilst
requesting feedback.
Please have the gentleness to stop your _fully_ off topic messages,
which do not contribute any value to this clearly technical topic here.
.
Jay Parlar
> This starts to become ridiculous.
That's your own fault. You've dug a pretty deep grave for yourself,
with your behaviour across various newgroups. You can't blame people
for wanting to dismiss you because of it.
>
> I've _implemented_ as simple schema evolution for django, which I need
> for a personal project with a _deadline_.
And based on your past behaviours, that might just be a result of you
trying to become an even better troll.
For me, I'll just ignore you from now on. Maybe other people here will
be more accepting of a well known troll. If you really are trying to
change your ways, then best of luck to you, in defeating the persona
you've created for yourself. You've already been dismissed on
django-dev, so my guess is that the odds of any of your work ever
hitting the Django SVN tree are pretty slim.
Jay P.
Steven Armstrong
> Jay Parlar wrote:
>> Ilias:
>>
>> I thought you would stop bothering Django people after it was revealed
>> on Django-dev that you're a known Internet troll:
> [...]
>
> This starts to become ridiculous.
>
What do you expect?
To be honest I actually think some of the things on the page [1] you
posted may be usable.
But after posting around like a moron to various developers list and
wasting everybody's time - how can you expect that anybody would take
you or anything that comes from you seriously?
[1] http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/DjangoProductEvaluation
Tom Tobin
> working to created a Django Quickstart, which will allow even
> unexperienced users to see a django site running within their browsers.
Ilias Lazaridis is a known mailing list and Usenet troll, and is
therefore being ignored by this community. Any statements by Ilias
Lazaridis should be considered incorrect, inaccurate, or otherwise
tainted with the intention of disrupting conversation on django-users
and/or django-developers.
Reference:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilias_Lazaridis
- http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Ilias
- http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/138966
tekNico
Wow, man (or whatever you are), you're something. :-)
You actually cite your detractors on your own pages (see bottom of
http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/DjangoAudit , and of
http://lazaridis.com/core/eval/index.html ).
Maybe you actually *mean* something, and are not trying to troll. In
that case, what would that be? Do you really think someone would fall
for your peculiar marketese, and give you money?
Or are you really thinking you're doing something (gasp) *useful*?
I'm bewildered, and a little amused, too.
--
Nicola Larosa - http://www.tekNico.net/
If you can't answer a question within three steps,
you haven't designed the answers right.
-- Dratz, February 2006
Ilias Lazaridis
>> Your comments are very welcome.
>
> Wow, man (or whatever you are), you're something. :-)
>
> You actually cite your detractors on your own pages (see bottom of
> http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/DjangoAudit , and of
> http://lazaridis.com/core/eval/index.html ).
"This Project is Committed to Users of Open Source Products. It tries to
save their time, whilst selecting Open Source Products which comply to
Requirements like simplicity, openess, transparency and similar - and
which respect the users effort and time."
"The weaknesses of the Open Source Product, the Code Base, the producing
Project, the surounding Community and the Leadership are transparently
presented. Users have this way a reduced effort to verify the results."
http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/ProjectOverview
> Maybe you actually *mean* something, and are not trying to troll. In
> that case, what would that be? Do you really think someone would fall
> for your peculiar marketese, and give you money?
>
> Or are you really thinking you're doing something (gasp) *useful*?
>
> I'm bewildered, and a little amused, too.
Feel free.
But please refrain from further off topic comments within this clearly
technical topic.
> --
> Nicola Larosa - http://www.tekNico.net/
>
> If you can't answer a question within three steps,
> you haven't designed the answers right.
> -- Dratz, February 2006
.
Ilias Lazaridis
> On 6/4/06, Ilias Lazaridis <il...@lazaridis.com> wrote:
>> I've create a simple Schema Evolution Support for Django and I am
>> working to created a Django Quickstart, which will allow even
>> unexperienced users to see a django site running within their browsers.
>
> Ilias Lazaridis is a known mailing list and Usenet troll, and is
> therefore being ignored by this community.
I assume you are the spokesman of this community?
And of all Django Users?
> Any statements by Ilias
> Lazaridis should be considered incorrect, inaccurate, or otherwise
> tainted with the intention of disrupting conversation on django-users
> and/or django-developers.
> Reference:
> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilias_Lazaridis
> - http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Ilias
> - http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/138966
The "core" project is closed.
http://lazaridis.com/core/eval/index.html
http://lazaridis.com/core/index.html
http://lazaridis.com/pj/index.html
-
I am now focusing to produce results within the Open Source Domain.
This Schema Evolutions Support is part of a private project.
http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/DjangoSchemaEvolution
http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/browser/django/rework/evolve.py
http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/browser/django/rework/add_evolvedb_command.diff
Perhaps there is some user intrested in using the results and providing
some feedback.
.
Ilias Lazaridis
> On 06/04/06 18:11, Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
>> Jay Parlar wrote:
>>> Ilias:
>>>
>>> I thought you would stop bothering Django people after it was revealed
>>> on Django-dev that you're a known Internet troll:
>> [...]
>>
>> This starts to become ridiculous.
>
> What do you expect?
That people focus on the technical nature of this thread and the results.
> To be honest I actually think some of the things on the page [1] you
> posted may be usable.
I've implemented a simple schema evolution mechanism, which allows
simple incremental design:
http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/DjangoSchemaEvolution
I need this to start with a personal project, which hopefully will
secure me some incoming.
> But after posting around like a moron to various developers list and
> wasting everybody's time - how can you expect that anybody would take
> you or anything that comes from you seriously?
I have analyzed software production system, whilst posting valid
technical topics to the public discussion media. Everything is
documented transparently on my website:
http://lazaridis.com/core/index.html
http://lazaridis.com/core/eval/index.html
> [1] http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/DjangoProductEvaluation
This thread here is about a schema evolution support for django.
.
Brett Parker
>
> Tom Tobin wrote:
> > On 6/4/06, Ilias Lazaridis <il...@lazaridis.com> wrote:
> >> I've create a simple Schema Evolution Support for Django and I am
> >> working to created a Django Quickstart, which will allow even
> >> unexperienced users to see a django site running within their browsers.
> >
> > Ilias Lazaridis is a known mailing list and Usenet troll, and is
> > therefore being ignored by this community.
>
> I assume you are the spokesman of this community?
>
> And of all Django Users?
No, but given your history, they're giving a good heads up that it's
probably worth just ignoring you and your trolling ways...
> > Any statements by Ilias
> > Lazaridis should be considered incorrect, inaccurate, or otherwise
> > tainted with the intention of disrupting conversation on django-users
> > and/or django-developers.
> > Reference:
> > - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
> > - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilias_Lazaridis
> > - http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Ilias
> > - http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/138966
>
> The "core" project is closed.
>
> http://lazaridis.com/core/eval/index.html
> http://lazaridis.com/core/index.html
> http://lazaridis.com/pj/index.html
Oh, yay... I set of pages on your own site that could say anything...
have you got any references *outside* of your own domain that say that
you're not a troll and that your troll like tendencies are over? Or are
you just expecting it to be taken on faith?
"Thanks",
--
Brett Parker
Ilias Lazaridis
Ilias Lazaridis
> On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 01:30:10PM +0300, Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
>> Tom Tobin wrote:
>>> On 6/4/06, Ilias Lazaridis <il...@lazaridis.com> wrote:
>>>> I've create a simple Schema Evolution Support for Django and I am
>>>> working to created a Django Quickstart, which will allow even
>>>> unexperienced users to see a django site running within their browsers.
>>> Ilias Lazaridis is a known mailing list and Usenet troll, and is
>>> therefore being ignored by this community.
>> I assume you are the spokesman of this community?
>>
>> And of all Django Users?
>
> No,
very nice.
[...]
> Oh, yay... I set of pages on your own site that could say anything...
> have you got any references *outside* of your own domain that say that
> you're not a troll and that your troll like tendencies are over? Or are
> you just expecting it to be taken on faith?
Just as any other person posting on this and any other open source user
list:
I don't have to provide any references to post topic's valid for this list.
Please, if you have something to contribute to the technical nature of
this thread, let me know.
tekNico
> save their time,
...while wasting the developers' one, right. :-|
> "The weaknesses of the Open Source Product, the Code Base, the producing
> Project, the surounding Community and the Leadership are transparently
> presented. Users have this way a reduced effort to verify the results."
I don't think you can actually do that.
> But please refrain from further off topic comments within this clearly
> technical topic.
*Don't count on it.* B-#
If there's something that makes me lose my temper, it's someone telling
me what I can and cannot say.
You're a lost cause, goodbye.
--
Nicola Larosa - http://www.tekNico.net/
Sometimes everyone else is just completely wrong.
I want nothing to do with any programmer who would mis-indent their
code.
If you want to mis-indent your code you are an idiot.
If you want idiotic code to be an option you are being absurd.
-- Ian Bicking, February 2006
Ilias Lazaridis
>> "This Project is Committed to Users of Open Source Products. It tries to
>> save their time,
>
> ...while wasting the developers' one, right. :-|
Developers are free to ignore any threads.
And you are free to ignore them, too.
>> "The weaknesses of the Open Source Product, the Code Base, the producing
>> Project, the surounding Community and the Leadership are transparently
>> presented. Users have this way a reduced effort to verify the results."
>
> I don't think you can actually do that.
It's really easy.
Potential Users and Evaluators are capable people:
http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/DjangoAudit
>> But please refrain from further off topic comments within this clearly
>> technical topic.
>
> *Don't count on it.* B-#
of course not.
> If there's something that makes me lose my temper, it's someone telling
> me what I can and cannot say.
I just remind you that your writings are off-topic.
This is a technical topic, subjecting a simple schema evolution support
that I've implemented for django:
http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/DjangoSchemaEvolution
> You're a lost cause, goodbye.
.
James Bennett
to play with Ilias do so off-list?
My inbox thanks you in advance.
--
"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
-- George Carlin
Ilias Lazaridis
> Can we declare this thread closed now,
or course not.
In topic posts subjecting the schema evolution support are of course
welcome.
> and ask that anyone who wishes to play with Ilias do so off-list?
>
> My inbox thanks you in advance.
For anyone who wishes to ignore a thread:
Brett Parker
>
> James Bennett wrote:
> > Can we declare this thread closed now,
>
> or course not.
>
> In topic posts subjecting the schema evolution support are of course
> welcome.
Other than you, which seems to be annoying a lot of people, has anyone
responded *technically* to your posts? You appear to be doing a good job
of not making any friends, here. Well done.
> > and ask that anyone who wishes to play with Ilias do so off-list?
> >
> > My inbox thanks you in advance.
>
> For anyone who wishes to ignore a thread:
>
> http://lazaridis.com/core/eval/filter.html
*YAWN*.
(1) I don't use Mozilla Thunderbird
(2) There are other people that contribute to threads, just
because you get involved doesn't neccessarily mean that I want
to ignore the thread.
(3) If you actually want to provide a useful reference, provide
a useful reference rather than calling the target audience
"Incapable Species"
Also, it appears that your web design skills suck, and the menu on that
page bleeds nastily in to the content.
Getting bored now,
--
Brett Parker
Ilias Lazaridis
> On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 03:00:17PM +0300, Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
>> James Bennett wrote:
>>> Can we declare this thread closed now,
>> or course not.
>>
>> In topic posts subjecting the schema evolution support are of course
>> welcome.
>
> Other than you, which seems to be annoying a lot of people, has anyone
> responded *technically* to your posts? You appear to be doing a good job
> of not making any friends, here. Well done.
At least you admit that my technical thread was spammed with off-topic
comments.
>>> and ask that anyone who wishes to play with Ilias do so off-list?
>>>
>>> My inbox thanks you in advance.
>> For anyone who wishes to ignore a thread:
>>
>> http://lazaridis.com/core/eval/filter.html
>
> *YAWN*.
> (1) I don't use Mozilla Thunderbird
ok, it's just an example
> (2) There are other people that contribute to threads, just
> because you get involved doesn't neccessarily mean that I want
> to ignore the thread.
you are right.
> (3) If you actually want to provide a useful reference, provide
> a useful reference rather than calling the target audience
> "Incapable Species"
You have a point here.
The link is from the old project, and I have used it without thinking
much about.
I apologize sincerely.
> Also, it appears that your web design skills suck,
I am not a web-designer.
> and the menu on that page bleeds nastily in to the content.
Please, if you like, let me know via private email which browser you use.
I have verified the site mainly with Firebird (and a little with IE).
> Getting bored now,
.
Derek Anderson
___________________________
/| /| | |
||__|| | Please don't |
/ O O\__ feed |
/ \ the trolls |
/ \ \ |
/ _ \ \ ----------------------
/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
/ \|_|_|/ | __||
/ / \ |____| ||
/ | | /| | --|
| | |// |____ --|
* _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
*-- _--\ _ \ // |
/ _ \\ _ // | /
* / \_ /- | - | |
* ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
-- derek :)
tsnyder
I don't know who this guy is, or why everyone hates him (and I don't
want to know, so don't take this as an invitation to tell me).
But it seems to me that if he is a troll then you all have played into
his hands by posting a bunch of off topic slurs against him, resulting
in our mailboxes being full of garbage. It's not just him - it is
you, too. Perpetual posts about him being a troll are just as
bothersome to the rest of us as posts from an actual troll.
So just cut it out. If you don't like him or his question, just don't answer.
Please!
Ilias Lazaridis
> i believe it's time for...
Mr. Anderson,
we had some private conversation at the start of my work with Django,
where I had answered all of your questions.
Based on this, you should have a better rating about me, especially when
knowing my private situation (or at least some indicators).
-
You are the Student which will execute the "Google Summer of Code"
Project, which will implement the "Schema Evolution Support for Django",
http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/SchemaEvolution
May I ask you to point my to a resource which shows your current plans,
results etc.?
As you have seen, I have provided within a few days something what the
django project and its community has not provided since a _very_ long time.
A working draft version of a Schema Evolution Support for Django:
http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/DjangoSchemaEvolution
-
You should understand that it looks really somehow, that especially you
talk so loud about a 'troll'.
Finally, you should be aware of something: all of your writings were
publically archived.
.
pub...@kered.org
synchronize our efforts. and even more retarded for the time i spent and
help i offered regarding your web site design, resume and general "how to
better present yourself" as a consulting business. (considering i've been
a fulltime programmer/consultant for many years now and you were claiming
to just be starting out)
however i am far from your largest detractor here. and i don't wish to
be, so i won't contribute any more to this discussion. this will be my
last post here regarding you.
-- derek
p.s. for the record i'm not totally convinced you're an intentional troll.
i suspect you're just socially and professionally inept. but with your
history on other listservs, it seems that you are incapable of learning
how to better interact with others. so "a rose by any other name..." the
effect is the same. i recommend to all ignoring ilias here.
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven
Ilias, could you stop replying to every single email and just ignore
ad hominems? Thanks.
And to the rest, could you please focus on purely the technical
content instead of polluting the list with unnecessary replies?
Thanks.
On 6/5/06, Ilias Lazaridis <il...@lazaridis.com> wrote:
> http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/DjangoSchemaEvolution
> http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/browser/django/rework/evolve.py
> http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/browser/django/rework/add_evolvedb_command.diff
Has anybody even looked at the above?
A cursory glance of evolve.py shows that some preliminary work has
been done on the schema evolution. How much of that of the above is
useful/workable? I readily admit this is not quite my cup of tea.
--
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven
James Bennett
> Ilias, could you stop replying to every single email and just ignore
> ad hominems? Thanks.
> And to the rest, could you please focus on purely the technical
> content instead of polluting the list with unnecessary replies?
Again, can we just let this thread die? Per the Wikipedia entry on
him, Ilias has been banned from posting to this list.
As for code that he wrote, I'd personally be wary of us ever using
anything he didn't post to our own Trac and, even then, I'd probably
want to run it by an IP lawyer before doing anything with it -- code
contributed by a supposed "analyst for hire" who seemed to be fishing
for us to pay him to help with Django is likely to be of questionable
legal status.
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven
> Again, can we just let this thread die? Per the Wikipedia entry on
> him, Ilias has been banned from posting to this list.
I didn't know Wikipedia administered this list? Sure, the entry does
point out he has had a few problems on the mailinglists, a lot owing
up to his own behaviour. However, see below.
> As for code that he wrote, I'd personally be wary of us ever using
> anything he didn't post to our own Trac and, even then, I'd probably
> want to run it by an IP lawyer before doing anything with it -- code
> contributed by a supposed "analyst for hire" who seemed to be fishing
> for us to pay him to help with Django is likely to be of questionable
> legal status.
The file points to LICENSE.TXT in the directory evolve.py is in. This
LICENSE.TXT is a BSD 3-clause license just like Lawrence Journal used,
just attributed to himself and stamped 2006. Nothing weird there.
I am all for letting a thread die, just for the right reasons though
and that's currently *not* happening as far as I can see. The
Internet's group mentality can also be very quick in getting out the
tar and feathers and label someone unwanted.
And this will be the last notice from my side on this, unless it has
to do with the technical side of things.
--
James Bennett
> I didn't know Wikipedia administered this list? Sure, the entry does
> point out he has had a few problems on the mailinglists, a lot owing
> up to his own behaviour. However, see below.
The Wikipedia article is not the authoritative source, true. However,
I updated it after hearing from authoritative sources that he has been
banned.
> The file points to LICENSE.TXT in the directory evolve.py is in. This
> LICENSE.TXT is a BSD 3-clause license just like Lawrence Journal used,
> just attributed to himself and stamped 2006. Nothing weird there.
I'd still want to run it by an IP lawyer.
> I am all for letting a thread die, just for the right reasons though
> and that's currently *not* happening as far as I can see.
OK.
tekNico
> him, Ilias has been banned from posting to this list.
This does not feel right. Though I understand the reasons that may have
led the admins to this decision, it's always a failure when a community
cannot evolve a way to handle a dysfunctional situation, and has to be
prevented to face it, for whatever good reasons.
Freedom of speech should be preserved in all but the direst
occurrences, in which there is direct and evident harm to others. This
did not seem such a case.
Michael Radziej
> http://lazaridis.com/core/eval/index.html
Your phone contact is not working. I get the impression you're only a scam.
Michael