Social Networking basics? -Raj

[raj]

Hey guys,

Just wondering something. I have an idea to build a social networking-
type website. I'm just trying to picture how the mysql backend would
look. For example, if an individual were to have "friends", would i
need to edit the user class in django, and add a many-to-many field?
I'm confused on how all this would break down. Thank you.
-Raj

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

check out the concept of Profile.
--
regards
KG
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
Coimbatore LUG rox
http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/

[raj]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Where would I learn about these
concepts. Thank you.

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

You could have easily answered your own question by reading the documentation and/or experimenting, and/or looking at the 10 million posts about database structuring in Google.

If you lack the capacity to do this, then I'd find another profession tbh.

Cal

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[Shawn Milochik]

Is it just me or are we having a sudden spurt of e-mail that goes like this:

Q: How do I <something vague>
A: You do X.

Q: How do I do X?
A: You use Y.

Q: How do I use Y?

I'm convinced that these people are either trolls or inherently
"un-helpable," unless you want to write their code for them.

In either case I think the only sane response is to completely ignore
these people as soon as this pattern emerges, because it's an utter
waste of the time we could be using to help others -- the reason we're
on this list in the first place.

Also, ignoring them is probably the only way to discourage repeat offences.

Shawn

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 10:32 PM, Shawn Milochik <sh...@milochik.com> wrote:

Is it just me or are we having a sudden spurt of e-mail that goes like this:

   Q: How do I <something vague>
   A: You do X.

   Q: How do I do X?
   A: You use Y.

   Q: How do I use Y?

Yup, I was just thinking the same thing.

 

I'm convinced that these people are either trolls or inherently "un-helpable," unless you want to write their code for them.

In either case I think the only sane response is to completely ignore these people as soon as this pattern emerges, because it's an utter waste of the time we could be using to help others -- the reason we're on this list in the first place.

Also, ignoring them is probably the only way to discourage repeat offences.

+1, sound like a sane plan.

 

Shawn

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[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 14:19 -0700, raj wrote:
> I'm not quite sure what you mean. Where would I learn about these
> concepts. Thank you.

http://duckduckgo.com/?q=django+get_profile%28%29

[Piotr Zalewa]

Do we have a group FAQ?

> <mailto:django...@googlegroups.com>.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> django-users+unsubscribe@__googlegroups.com
> <mailto:django-users%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit this group at

> http://groups.google.com/__group/django-users?hl=en
> <http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en>.

>
>
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[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

The perfect link to refer these users to:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

(props to harryr for finding this)

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[Shawn Milochik]

On 06/23/2011 12:36 PM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd] wrote:
> The perfect link to refer these users to:
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

> <http://www.catb.org/%7Eesr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

>
> (props to harryr for finding this)
>

Yeah. I used to post that link pretty frequently until I was asked to
stop. ;o)

I still think it's a great essay. If I remember correctly, the objection
to it was that the tone wasn't necessarily at the same level of
acceptance and friendliness we like to maintain in this group.

We should distill it into a shorter, newbie-friendly version and get it
posted somewhere official so we can refer to it.

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Shawn Milochik <sh...@milochik.com> wrote:

On 06/23/2011 12:36 PM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd] wrote:

The perfect link to refer these users to:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html <http://www.catb.org/%7Eesr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

(props to harryr for finding this)

Yeah. I used to post that link pretty frequently until I was asked to stop. ;o)

Lmao, I won't re-post this again then ;p

 

I still think it's a great essay. If I remember correctly, the objection to it was that the tone wasn't necessarily at the same level of acceptance and friendliness we like to maintain in this group.

We should distill it into a shorter, newbie-friendly version and get it posted somewhere official so we can refer to it.

That's be pretty cool. But my guess is that the maintainers just want us to reply with a "you need to give us more information before we can help you" speech, in a non-insulting tone. Shame, takes all the fun out of it lol. 

</meany>

[Russell Keith-Magee]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 12:49 AM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
<cal.l...@simplicitymedialtd.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Shawn Milochik <sh...@milochik.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 06/23/2011 12:36 PM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd] wrote:
>>>
>>> The perfect link to refer these users to:
>>>
>>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>>> <http://www.catb.org/%7Eesr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
>>>
>>> (props to harryr for finding this)
>>>
>>
>> Yeah. I used to post that link pretty frequently until I was asked to
>> stop. ;o)
>
> Lmao, I won't re-post this again then ;p
>
>>
>> I still think it's a great essay. If I remember correctly, the objection
>> to it was that the tone wasn't necessarily at the same level of acceptance
>> and friendliness we like to maintain in this group.
>>
>> We should distill it into a shorter, newbie-friendly version and get it
>> posted somewhere official so we can refer to it.
>
> That's be pretty cool. But my guess is that the maintainers just want us to
> reply with a "you need to give us more information before we can help you"
> speech, in a non-insulting tone. Shame, takes all the fun out of it lol.
> </meany>

The tone is exactly why I've asked people to stop referring to ESR's
document. The spirit of the document -- that you can only get good
answers if you ask good questions -- is certainly valid, but to me,
ESR's tone in that document really comes off as "Stop wasting my time,
which is more valuable than yours, because I'm a hacker, which means
I'm awesome and you're not". I'm sorry, but being a 1337 h4X0R doesn't
give you carte blanche to treat anyone else like crap.

The Django core team have tried really hard to foster a positive,
accepting community culture. Everyone is a beginner once, and everyone
occasionally posts in haste and forgets to include salient details.
Absolutely nothing is gained by insulting a newcomer to the community.

As a side note, if someone were to redraft that document in such a way
that it *doesn't* have that tone, I'd gladly include the text in
Django's own documentation.

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

Lol you do have a point.. Out of all the lists I have been on, I have found django-users certainly has a lot less of that macho/e-penis bs that most other lists have.

 

The Django core team have tried really hard to foster a positive,
accepting community culture. Everyone is a beginner once, and everyone
occasionally posts in haste and forgets to include salient details.
Absolutely nothing is gained by insulting a newcomer to the community.

I guess this is also true.. Although when I started off in Django, I only asked questions after doing my homework (extensive googling/reading docs etc). But there again, I did also have several years of Python / Stackless knowledge too, where as new Django users won't necessarily have any Python knowledge at all. So again, I do see your point.

 

As a side note, if someone were to redraft that document in such a way
that it *doesn't* have that tone, I'd gladly include the text in
Django's own documentation.

+1 on this. 

You know, maybe even a short video on the subject might be handy as a "quick introduction into how to ask the right questions".. throw a bit of humour in there, some examples of good/bad questions etc.. 

If anyone thinks a short video might be a good idea (as well as documentation), then maybe let's get a feature request up and see who gets involved??

 

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)

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[Fabian Ezequiel Gallina]

2011/6/23 Russell Keith-Magee <rus...@keith-magee.com>:

I find this document[0] to be really nice, helpful and without that
particular tone.

Someone from Python Argentina (PyAR) translated it to Spanish and it
is what we use to guide newcomers.

[0] http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html

Regards,
--
Fabián E. Gallina
http://www.anue.biz

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 08:14 +0800, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
> s a side note, if someone were to redraft that document in such a way
> that it *doesn't* have that tone, I'd gladly include the text in
> Django's own documentation.

last time you posted on this topic you had given a link to something
that was more appropriate - could you repost it please?

[Russell Keith-Magee]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves
<law...@thenilgiris.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 08:14 +0800, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
>> s a side note, if someone were to redraft that document in such a way
>> that it *doesn't* have that tone, I'd gladly include the text in
>> Django's own documentation.
>
> last time you posted on this topic you had given a link to something
> that was more appropriate - could you repost it please?

I think this is the link you're referring to:

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html

It's not *completely* on topic -- it's about reporting bugs, rather
than asking questions. However, it gets the tone right, and many of
the lessons about submitting useful bug reports are equally applicable
to asking questions.

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)

[Russell Keith-Magee]

Nice! I haven't seen that one before -- thanks for sharing!

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)

[Peter Murphy]

+1 for Fabián's link. Not only is it better-tempered than ESR on the
subject, it's a lot _shorter_. I like how it is split into 10 simple
sections. Love points 4, 5 and 6!

Not everyone on this list has English as a first language. Some
newcomers may be confused or daunted by Eric's lengthy prose, and thus
missing the point altogether. But I think Mike Ash's work can be
skimmed to get the gist.

Cheers,
Peter

On Jun 24, 12:17 pm, Fabian Ezequiel Gallina <galli...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Derek]

> >>> We should distill it into a shorter, newbie-friendly version and get it
> >>> posted somewhere official so we can refer to it.
>
>

> I find this document[0] to be really nice, helpful and without that
> particular tone.
>
> Someone from Python Argentina (PyAR) translated it to Spanish and it
> is what we use to guide newcomers.
>
> [0]http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html

+1 for the Mike Ash guide - it seems to cover all the keypoints.
So... if someone (including me!) asks a question that is "not well
asked", do we just refer them to this page and say, for example, "see
point 4 - this question has been covered in the mailing list..."?

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 03:53 -0700, Derek wrote:
> > Someone from Python Argentina (PyAR) translated it to Spanish and it
> > is what we use to guide newcomers.
> >
> > [0]http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html
>
> +1 for the Mike Ash guide - it seems to cover all the keypoints.
> So... if someone (including me!) asks a question that is "not well
> asked", do we just refer them to this page and say, for example, "see
> point 4 - this question has been covered in the mailing list..."?

I feel we should customise this by giving examples from mailing lists
and possibly make it django-specific.

[Herman Schistad]

I would still argue that this is a bad question, even though it is
stated otherwise in Mike Ash's guide:

QGuy: how can I get a directory listing?
AMan: use NSFileManager
...QGuy puts NSFileManager into Google...

Why? Because I'm sure a google search of "directory listing
objective-c" can get you a lot more results, in a lot faster time.

One could say: "But we are to be friendly...", and to that I answer:
"Friendly to those who show decent respect. And it is a lack of
respect to scream out questions, demanding an answer when it actually
takes time, for the hundreds of developers on this list, to read all
emails and not to mention answer to these questions.".

There is a reason for the saying: "Just fucking google it", and I
believe we can drop the "fucking" but still enforce the saying.

So maybe make a google guide with smart keywords to add, like:
Don't search on: "django syncdb error"
Search on: "django syncb <insert error message here>"
You want examples?
Search on: "django <insert problem> snippet"
Try to search you problem like this: "site:stackoverflow.com <insert
problem> django"
Have you tried to search the mailinglist? The search is here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/django-users
(...)

--
With regards, Herman Schistad

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 13:40 +0200, Herman Schistad wrote:
> So maybe make a google guide with smart keywords to add, like:

actually duckduck.go is far smarter than google for opensource.

[Cal Leeming]

+1 on Herman's post, and the idea of teaching people 'how to google for themselves'. Sounds silly i know, but some people just dont know how what to look for, and how to use google effectively.

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[Ronnie Betzen]

Being a newbie myself, I find this much more appealing.
I'm grateful this is being considered, having read ESR's version as well.

I'll also try to be very careful to follow these guidelines as I appreciate
the time everyone here takes to help people like me. Thanks a bunch!

[Ronnie Betzen]

On Friday, June 24, 2011 06:40:10 AM Herman Schistad wrote:
> I would still argue that this is a bad question, even though it is
> stated otherwise in Mike Ash's guide:
>
> QGuy: how can I get a directory listing?
> AMan: use NSFileManager
> ...QGuy puts NSFileManager into Google...
>
> Why? Because I'm sure a google search of "directory listing
> objective-c" can get you a lot more results, in a lot faster time.
>
> One could say: "But we are to be friendly...", and to that I answer:
> "Friendly to those who show decent respect. And it is a lack of
> respect to scream out questions, demanding an answer when it actually
> takes time, for the hundreds of developers on this list, to read all
> emails and not to mention answer to these questions.".

Maybe I'm just a little old fashioned, but I tend to have the viewpoint of "If
you don't have anything good to say, don't have anything to say at all."

In this particular situation I'd leave the reply to a question like this to
someone who has the patience for such things. Otherwise just post a link to
Mr. Schistad's article.

[ApogeeGMail]

Hi All:

I am also a newbie on this list. I have been reading the list for about two months. I have learned a LOT following the questions and answers. I would like to suggest that some of the links like duckduck.go be added to the standard doc's page's on the right hand side. I would also like to see the 'Getting Help" be on each page.

I would also like to thanks all the responders to this list for all the effort expended to helping all the noob's.

Even though I have not posted any requests for help yet, I am sure I will in the future.

Everyone have a nice day...

Richard

P.S. really like Django!

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On Sun, 2011-06-26 at 14:43 -0400, ApogeeGMail wrote:
> I am also a newbie on this list. I have been reading the list for
> about two months. I have learned a LOT following the questions and
> answers. I would like to suggest that some of the links like
> duckduck.go be added to the standard doc's page's on the right hand
> side. I would also like to see the 'Getting Help" be on each page.

I have started something on the wiki:

https://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/UsingTheMailingList

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

I've made a few modifications, feel free to revert/modify to your hearts content.

--

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On Mon, 2011-06-27 at 12:48 +0100, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
wrote:

> I've made a few modifications, feel free to revert/modify to your
> hearts
> content.

am travelling - will add my stuff when I reach home - but thanks, keep
it coming.