DBUG> OT: iPad - final thoughts from yesterday

[Michael Kriegh]

So, as previously written I was using iPad all day to take notes, email, work on pp presentation, etc. It was in relatively heavy use from about 6:30 am till about 8 pm last night and I wound up the day with 20% charge left on the battery. This makes the iPad a highly practical device for the road. I am writing from the train on my way into the city right now. It is easily the easiest device I have had to use on the train, for comfort and ability to actually produce. Lap tops tend to be a little awkward with seat in front and disposition of the keyboard. Net Books, which are less awkward in the lap, tend to have keyboards that are hard to type on. The combination of iPad and bluetooth wireless keyboard is the best form/function factor I have experienced.

I have alluded to preparing a pp presentation on it. That same pp presentation can be presented from the iPad with the right adapter cable which I will acquire and experiment with shortly. I have a presentation to do next week and will see if I can take it from production to presentation all on the iPad. I suspect it will work swimmingly.

A comment about the Apple ecosystem...though it can be restrictive at times, the main attraction of it is that it just works. All the devices of the system play nicely together and the integration of them is generally dead simple. For example, I don't know how many of you have gone through the experience of pairing bluetooth devices, but it can be a bit fussy in my experience and you have to remember pairing codes etc. When I went to pair the wireless keyboard to the iPad, I simply turned on bluetooth in the iPad, it immediately saw the keyboard and asked if I wanted to pair, upon saying yes it told me the code to type into the keyboard to accomplish it and in seconds I was on my way. This kind of plug and play ease is common in the Apple ecosystem, much less so, from my experience, in the PC ecosystem. So far, in my opinion, the ease of use and configuration compensates for the restrictions you occasionally bump against. My humble opinion.

Sent from my iPad
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[Paul Nida]

Michael,
One quick question for you. You have been taking notes and writing on the
iPad using your keyboard, but does the iPad do character recognition? For
instance, can you do hand writing on the touch screen with a stylist and
have it automatically converted to text? I can do this on other devices I
have and this would be a big plus from my standpoint.

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[Evan H. Shu FAIA]

Unfortunately, one of the disappointments that I've had with the iPad
is the uselessness of a stylist. I ordered a special one, because you
need one that works with a capacitative touchscreen, which requires an
electrical conductance between two surface points. Your finger works
but an ordinary stylus does not.

Unless, there is a more sophisticated iPad stylus out there, the one I
had was worse and more clumsy than using your finger.

That said, there are quite a few handwriting recognition software apps
that work pretty well, if you can get used to writing with your
finger. But because you have to write bigger in a magnified area of
your screen, I have not found them particularly useful or easier than
even one finger typing using the screen keyboard.

Evan Shu

On 5/5/2011 9:09:48 AM, Paul Nida (prn...@verizon.net) wrote:
> One quick question for you. You have been taking notes and writing
on the
> iPad using your keyboard, but does the iPad do character
recognition? For
> instance, can you do hand writing on the touch screen with a
stylist and
> have it automatically converted to text? I can do this on other
devices I
> have and this would be a big plus from my standpoint.

[Paul Nida]

Thanks Evan, that is interesting to hear. From what you said, I would
agree that hand writing recoginition seems to be useless on the iPad. I
don't want to have to try and write with my finger, I haven't played with
finger paints since I was a kid. This is a definite draw back for me.

On Thu, 05 May 2011 10:55:54 -0500, Evan H. Shu FAIA <eva...@comcast.net>
wrote:

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[JAID]

Evan wrote:

(on stylus)... I ordered a special one... was worse and more clumsy than
using your finger...

... there are quite a few handwriting recognition software apps that work

pretty well, if you can get used to writing with your finger. But because
you have to write bigger in a magnified area of your screen, I have not
found them particularly useful or easier than even one finger typing using

the screen keyboard...

I find the windows slate handwriting recognition a bit faster than either of
its screen keyboards but would be far too impatient to do anything more than
take sketchy notes on either. A keyboard in one form or another seems
necessary for serious text work. Have you tried the microphone Evan? Am
finding that in combination with scrawling with my finger that improves
things a bit. (you wouldn't use the inbuilt microphone on my slate though -
pretty lousy.) For my field use, a keyboard always seems to be in the way so
it would be good to have a quick alternative and like you I have not found a
good one yet.

Ian

[Michael Kriegh]

Wacom is apparently coming out with a pen for iPad. Maybe they will
get it right.

Sent from my iPad

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[Michael Kriegh]

Hi Paul,

Evan gave a better answer to this than I can at the moment. I looked around for such apps last night and none of the ones that do that seem too highly rated. I generally won't give an app a second thought if it does not have at least 4 of 5 stars. I did download Notes + last night which allows you to combine finger writing, drawing, typing and voice notes all together.

I am not sure, but I think voice recognition may be a better way to go with these devices. There is a version of Dragon available that has worked passably well in the small amounts of testing I have done, and I think it will get better. Requires an active internet connection, but it will take voice to text in a heart beat with increasing accuracy.

Another advantage of tablets with touch screen technology across the board is the use of finger as mouse. Much better than a little joy stick or touch pad or separate mouse (in cramped conditions especially).

The adventure continues. Today I will attempt some passive house design with Notes +...

Sent from my iPad

[Evan H Shu FAIA]

Thanks for the tip! I hadn't even thought of voice recognition software until you mentioned it -- there is a great free app, Dragon dictation, which works surprisingly well. I am using it to make lists and to dictate this e-mail. It has a built-in keyboard to add in punctuation and corrections, but it's surprisingly accurate.

So far I am enjoying it and, by the way, did I mention it's free!?

After reviewing the e-mail, the only thing I added was punctuation -- it didn't even make one spelling error!

Evan -- it even got my name right!

Sent from my iPad

[JAID]

MK:...Wacom is apparently coming out with a (capacitive) pen...

Thanks. Will keep an eye out for it. They normally do get input good.

[JAID]

Evan wrote.... voice recognition software ... am using it to make lists and
to dictate this e-mail. ..

Terrific. It did a good job. Is the iPad microphone good enough to use Evan
or do you find (as I do in non-iPad use) that another form (in my case
Bluetooth) is needed?

Ian

[JAID]

Evan wrote: ...there is a great free app, Dragon dictation, which works
surprisingly well...

I must have used a version of Dragon in the late nineties and it was pretty
good then so can imagine its advance.

For the non-iPadders...I just use the built in Win7 voice recognition which
I find good also. Mostly this is just used in OneNote (which must be the
best application Microsoft ever produced) on the slate but it can be used on
its own note taker or most applications, certainly all the Microsoft and
Adobe applications I have been using.

ian

[Evan H Shu FAIA]

Yes, Ian, I am using the built in microphone on the iPad and find that it is quite good enough. Also since my first post, I have also found that you can use voice commands for punctuation, which makes the whole process even easier. This Dragon diction software is quite good. Especially being a free app.

Evan

Sent from my iPad and Dragon diction

[JAID]

ES....This Dragon diction software is quite good...

Hi Evan, it looks VERY good. As well as the stylus mentioned elsewhere, I
asked my computer store mate if he would demonstrate the latest Dragon
software in action as he had boxes of it around. He did and it didn't miss a
beat, was clearly easily configured and worked in unison with other tools.
Very impressed. I probably won't give it a trial beside the standard Windows
voice component as, like Dragon on the iPad it is free but am pretty sure
Dragon would compete extremely strongly.

Voice has really come of age. I must have tried it over a decade ago
(starting with either Dragon or a Creative product, I don't remember which
was first) and then just for a few weeks every few years. It always worked
OK but not OK enough for me to make it permanent (I am a comparatively fast
typist.) It seems to have quietly snuck up to the real starting block
without my noticing.

[Paul Nida]

If you are using voice recognition software, whether it is Dragon or
another, it would seem not to matter what platform you are using it on. It
seems that a simple cheap voice recorder would work just as well. This
would seem to also include any of the other pads/tablets, netbooks,
laptops or even smart phone. Am I wrong here?

Please understand, I am not trying to put the iPad down. I am just trying
to find out what if anything sets it apart from the other devices.

On Fri, 06 May 2011 07:37:36 -0500, Evan H Shu FAIA <es...@world.std.com>
wrote:

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[Evan H. Shu FAIA]

Hi Paul,

No offense taken as I am trying to figure out what makes the iPad
special myself.

The need for voice recognition software is to make up for the weakness
of the onscreen keyboard, which is just okay for short messages but a
pain to use for anything longer. A wireless keyboard is another way to
attack the same weakness but naturally takes away from the portability.

I am looking forward to trying out a better stylus per the
recommendations article posted earlier as I am also hoping that the
handwriting recognition apps can also bridge the keyboard weakness if
the stylus can adequately match natural handwriting.

Another big weakness with the iPad is in locating and manipulating the
cursor position for text editing purposes. Again, I am hoping that a
better stylus can remedy that problem, as well as be a better tool for
sketching and drawing. (I won't hope for CAD quite yet.)

But to those ends, the weaknesses of the iPad do not even approach
outweighing the huge advantages of portability, instant "on"
capability, and general feeling of freedom in surfing sites. It
reminds me of carrying around that omnipresent sketchbook during
architecture school. It does so much already that it is sometimes
frustrating that it doesn't do that extra 20% of stuff that you would
really like it to do.

The iPad has nearly completely replaced most of my own previous laptop
use for communication, web surfing, and video viewing. Now, for these
times that I do need to use the laptop, it seems extremely cumbersome
to get go that route.

So far, my feeling is that the huge hype is substantially justified as
long as you can deal with the few frustrations and weaknesses that
come with it.

Evan

[Michael Kriegh]

And don't forget the extended battery life. I just finished 4 days of all day Passive House Training using it to take notes and it will last all day if you are not using a sophisticated note program like Notes + (which I started using because I can make freehand sketches to go with notes and write formulas freehand to go with notes that are hard to type because of symbols). And if you do use notes + or similar guzzler, a recharge at the lunch break will get you over the hump.

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[jo...@steelbuildings.com]

I have encountered the same problems with the touch pad as well.
The best solution that I have found is to replace the eraser in a
wooden pencil with a bit of frankfurter, works ok for a while but
tends to fall out after dehydration.

John
________________________________________________________________________________

[JAID]

Evan wrote:
...The need for voice recognition software is to make up for the weakness

of the onscreen keyboard, which is just okay for short messages but a

pain to use for anything longer...

Likewise here. I have several stylus coming (which happen to appear on the
list Jerry gave a link to) and will report how those go. (It seems likely
that the touch screen resolution is too coarse for them to make a lot of
difference but it will be worth the try.)

[David Bergman]

Good to hear, though I dislike in principle product design that don't
allow simple repairs. How many products have you thrown out and had
to replace when they needed a repair but it required going back to a
shop or the manufacturer and cost more than the product itself?

There's really no excuse for that, other than making customers spend
more money, especially with something as basic as a battery. And
Apple should have learned that lesson after the initial outcry over
iPod batteries years ago.

David

At 05:52 PM 5/9/2011, Michael Kriegh wrote:

>>Hi David and all,
>>
>>Spares probably not needed as you can go most of the day on one
>>charge unless using very heavily. External batteries are available
>>if you are a serious road warrior. As far as battery not easily
>>changed, not been an issue on any of my i devices, all used heavily
>>and one I have had for a couple of years...

[Michael Kriegh]

Hi David and all,

Spares probably not needed as you can go most of the day on one charge
unless using very heavily. External batteries are available if you are
a serious road warrior. As far as battery not easily changed, not been
an issue on any of my i devices, all used heavily and one I have had
for a couple of years...

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:50 PM, David Bergman <ber...@cyberg.com> wrote:
>> One of the things that bugs me about the ipad (unless my info is
wrong) is
>> that the battery is not removable which means (A) you can't carry
a spare
>> and (B) it's not easily replaceable if it fails.
>>
>> Don't know if other tablets are different.

[David Bergman]

One of the things that bugs me about the ipad (unless my info is
wrong) is that the battery is not removable which means (A) you can't
carry a spare and (B) it's not easily replaceable if it fails.

Don't know if other tablets are different.

David

At 02:14 PM 5/9/2011, Michael Kriegh wrote:

>>And don't forget the extended battery life. I just finished 4 days
>>of all day Passive House Training using it to take notes and it will
>>last all day if you are not using a sophisticated note program like
>>Notes + (which I started using because I can make freehand sketches
>>to go with notes and write formulas freehand to go with notes that
>>are hard to type because of symbols). And if you do use notes + or
>>similar guzzler, a recharge at the lunch break will get you over
the hump.
>>
>>

[Paul Nida]

Personally I find this a little disappointing hearing about the poor hand
writing recognition from the various pads/tablets/slates. I have 2 PDAs and
a smart phone that do reasonably well, though not perfect, with hand writing
character recognition. 2 use Windows Mobile and the other uses a proprietary
operating system. I have used all 3 at various times to take notes by hand
and have it converted and I was hoping the various tablets would actually
improve on this but it sounds like it is actually worse.

I read a review about the Acer Iconia W500 the other day and it seemed that
the reviewer spent most of the review finding fault with the keyboard it
comes with rather than discussing the tablet itself. That seemed really odd
to me since most of the pad/tablets don't come with a actual keyboard at
all, so why would you be so negative about the fact that they were actually
including one. He wasn't very complimentary about the software keyboard. And
if it doesn't do as well as the other tablets then that is a legitimate
criticism. But the fact that he spent so much time criticizing something the
other tablets don't provide really took away from the review for me.

I think it is a good thing I am not ready to buy one of these yet. Maybe
they will work out some of the bugs by the time I am.

Ian

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[JAID]

...Personally I find this a little disappointing hearing about the poor hand

writing recognition from the various pads/tablets/slates. I have 2 PDAs and

a smart phone that do reasonably well...

It is likely that we expect more of the larger screens (and I think should.)
I think everyone will agree that all these we have talked about take quick
notes well, even very well; they just don't compare at all with sitting down
to a fully-fledged keyboard and rattling out text. Like the desktops they do
offer a variety of solutions to this including (on those that have USB) the
ability to just plug in a keyboard if there is a lot to do or all have
Bluetooth so that a Bluetooth keyboard is easy too.

The stumbling block for many of us is that the size and convenience of these
is such that we would be very happy to be able to not carry anything but
them. If doing site survey or notes you want the minimum number of items to
be carrying.

Today I got the first of a handful of stylus I intend trying (this with a
windows based capacitive screen.) This first is a Samsung made for its
Galaxy. It has a capacitive foam knob that looks 5 or 6mm wide. I am happy
to say that it works better than my finger for handwriting recognition. It
is just a little more accurate and fine but its big advantage is that my
hand isn't in the way and I can see what I am writing. It seems OK for
drawing but I am not sure there is as much advantage over just using the
finger there.

Over the next few weeks the other styli will arrive (these include the Kuel,
the Wacom and the Griffin.) Will let you know what I think though I do not
expect huge advantage.

The ExoPC I use has its own digital keyboard and the standard windows one.
It is common knowledge that it is just about to bring out a new Exo one
which I will be testing any day. Its current one is probably a bit more
convenient than the windows one. If the next is a decent step better that
may obviate some of the value of stili and voice. For use with busy
interfaces the first thing they need to do is to slide away and out easily
and the second is to have a degree of transparency.

[JAID]

DB: One of the things that bugs me about the ipad (unless my info is

wrong) is that the battery is not removable which means (A) you can't
carry a spare and (B) it's not easily replaceable if it fails.

It seems to be the way with all the slates and all or most of the tablets,
David. This one has a built in battery also. The stated argument goes that
in 2 to3 years when the battery gives up the ghost you will have moved on to
greater things. Annoying and wasteful premis.

Ian

PS Since the makers have not given me one of those annoying little "Sent on
my..." monikas will have to type you one. Sent on my ExoPC.