Anthony and Kevin at The Freelancers Union
anothergain
last night and was disgusted by the speakers for "Loosecubes" Anthony
and Kevin. Anthony and Kevin were bragging that there are 50 spaces
in NYC that offer desks for "free" and were encouraging the
Freelancers Union members to bounce around and "pay no money" as the
best way to get their cowork on.
Coworking is about building a community of individuals, sharing
resources and through that becoming a unit that is stronger than its
parts. What Loosecubes seemed to be doing is encouraging people to
use as many desks as possible for free without a sense at all of
contributing or creating value for themselves or for the spaces. Even
the Freelancers Union members were uncomfortable with their line:
"Nobody gets paid? Great business model!"
I can see a successful business offering up a desk that they're not
using for free but any person who has found investors and opened a
coworking studio as a means of community building should be appalled
at Loosecubes undercutting the value of what these studios are trying
to put together.
It is obtuse to assume that an established business with spare desks
offered for free just for the hell of it and a studio that opened
simply for coworking sake could possibly be in the same position as
far as what they can offer for what price. Encouraging people to use
the New York spaces as if money were no object to any of us is a gross
misrepresentation. The Loosecube representatives came off as a con man
and it was disgusting to know they've been entrusted with the
stewardship of so many coworking spaces.
Thank God the Freelancers Union also had Frank from Colab speaking.
Frank spoke as a member who pays a monthly membership fee, is
obviously a huge, contributing member of the community at Colab and
spoke of the the value and benefits in the use of that space.
As Loosecubes an organization that is perched on the coworking
industry for its existence I would expect a much better understanding
of coworking model and a much better representation of the coworking
communities needs by its representatives. Rent in NYC is NOT free.
Contribute. Collaborate. Share resources and as such become a
stronger.
Joshua Marpet
I am just, I guess, a little unhappy that the really pleasant group of people who have gathered here in this online coworking community are seeing the rise of elements that they feel prey on coworking.
I wish it weren't so, but it is. So let's discuss it.
Who thinks that the Loosecubes idea of "bouncing" from space to space is a horrible one?
Who thinks it's acceptable?
Why?
Why not?
How can we, as a community, protect our spaces, our members, our communities, our revenues (kids gotta eat!) from elements that we, as individual coworkers, as space owners, and as community stewards, find objectionable or unacceptable?
Whether it's a NY Bah-gain hunter, or a Californian indulging a bit too much before coming to the space, there will always be individuals or groups that make us grit our teeth. How do we deal?
My $.02.
Joshua Marpet
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Tripp Baltz
"Free" coworking is not a good business model. Free coworking space operators are not so brilliant they have found a way to overturn the "no free lunch" rule.
Joshua Marpet
Is it possible you could get gov't grants for a full fledged coworking space? Or sponsorship to the tune of "enough"?
Alex Hillman
Tripp Baltz
But there is another reason why "paid" memberships make sense. When a coworking space charges members, it conveys the idea members are getting commensurate value in exchange for their payment. Also, paying up means you belong, you are committed, you have skin in the game. You are contributing to the success of the space, the community, the movement.
"Free" does not give you that same reality of participation. It is still true that you get what you pay for ... "free" coworking hasn't changed that.
Alex Hillman
You are contributing to the success of the space, the community, the movement.
"Free" does not give you that same reality of participation.
Jacob Sayles
Randall G. Arnold
Like others I wasn't there and won't second-guess the OP. That said, I think it's generally worthwhile to offer benefit of the doubt upfront. I can see good or "evil" in the terms that were described as offensive, and prefer to assume good. In any event, it's definitely worthwhile to ask questions during the presentation if possible and at the very least ask afterward.
My own thoughts are that "bouncing around" can indeed work out for everyone, including providers of for-pay spaces. Jacob made some good points in that regard but there's also the fact that sooner or later free spaces fill up, especially with the natural publicity we can expect. So given time, that "problem" can solve itself.
If I ever stumble into the funds necessary to start my own space (my ultimate dream), I plan to offer a percentage of free use right along with for-pay-- and applying some common-sense strings to the former. Of course facility services are a good carrot to encourage for-pay membership, but at the same time, positive stipulations can be applied to free spots. Ask for community service in return, for example. That could even mean mentoring, a natural fit for coworking anyway.
If we rise out of the lead-weighted depths of frustration and look at this activity creatively, it's really not that difficult to convert problems into benefits.
Randy
Veel Hoeden- Where Many Hats Meet!
3 things.
1) I'm a huge believer in taking a complaint to the one you are complaining about. If Anthony & Kevin truly said the things you stated and meant them in the ways you have relayed, I can understand your frustration. But I am with Alex and Jacob in thinking some wires may have been crossed here. All that said, I have extended a message out to Anthony to clarify his comments to this group. After speaking to him at GCUC in Austin and seeing his support of coworking in general I think we owe it to him to clear the air instead of us further arguing a point that may have never been made (or meant). I'll put info out when I get it.
2) My first draft at this was approaching a full page. Then Alex sent the below and reminded me why he and I agree on so much... he just said it more succinctly and speedily. Thank you Alex for being the me I aspire to be. :)
3) I don't follow the free vs. paid coworking debate. As an owner, user, and promoter of a coworking space, I focus far less on what someone pays to be there and MUCH more on what they give to be there. I have members I have "scholarship-ed" due to different circumstances who have given more back to the space than one of my longer standing "paid" members. I can't put a price tag to what they have created, collaborated on, or driven for the space... beyond telling you it what much more than $0. Sure, do I like getting paid for people using my space so I can pay my bills and reinvest in it? Yep. But do I like members who make my space worth paying for more? You betcha.
Thanks & God Bless,
Joel Bennett
Chief Dreamchaser
Veel Hoeden
Join Us on Facebook!
From: cowo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cowo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hillman
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 12:36 PM
To: cowo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Coworking] Anthony and Kevin at The Freelancers Union
That (grants/subsidies) is exactly how Gangplank operates, and instead puts their focus on building community through participation. I'll let someone from Gangplank expound on that more, though.
The key there, though is that they focus on that participation for buy in - different from what it sounds like was being recommended to "bounce around". Gangplank truly operates as a community in many ways, not just a gathering of people as many shared offices tend to be.
That said, though I wasn't at the Freelancer's Union event, I have to feel like something here is being misinterpreted or somebody mis-spoke. There was a really interesting conversation at the Austin conference about the growing notion of people participating in more than once space. It wasn't about "free", it was about the fact that some days I want a more social/rambunctious workspace. Other times I want more quiet. Other times I want more "business-y".
Loosecubes was a part of that conversation and I didn't hear anything offensive or off-putting. And that's coming from me, who's actively removed Indy Hall from every desk directory I've found us added to and even been publicly critical of Loosecubes (tough love, but surely with love in mind for Campbell and her team). I don't think what they're doing is bad, I also think that it's not good enough yet. I do think that they have the potential to get there if they choose to. Having known Campbell personally for a few years now, I remain hopeful. I do hope she chimes in here.
The point is, coworking is about choice (http://dangerouslyawesome.com/2012/04/global-changes-making-choices-and-coworking/) and I don't think there's anything wrong with encouraging people to be members of multiple spaces. I was on a panel last night with the owners/operators of a coworking fabrication studio and a coworking print making studio, all here in Philly. Indy Hall ended up being the functional outlier in the fact that between them they shared members. I think that's awesome.
That said - let's be careful about conflating the "free" issue here. Coworking is a thing anyone can do and people will do it, with or without our businesses that provide the facility to do it "well" or "better".
"Value" is relative to the individual. There's also "thin" value, which simply fills a hole and then there is "thick" value, which fills the hole and builds a mountain on top.
One style of coworking may get someone from a -10 to a 0, while another could bring them from a 0 to a +10. It's up to us to figure out who those people are and what they need to feel that the value we provide helps them get to a +10 and beyond.
-ALex
--
Anthony Marinos
As was alluded to earlier by some of you, there was definitely a
miscommunication/misunderstanding at the Freelancers Union meeting
last night, for which I am terribly sorry. Kevin and I spoke briefly
about coworking in general and then had a 15-20 minute open discussion
with the attendees about Loosecubes and how it works. Being in a room
full of freelancers (some of whom had never coworked before), I
thought it was relevant to highlight that approximately 50% of our NYC
spaces are free to book. There was definitely some confusion at first
about why companies and coworking spaces would offer space for free. I
explained that hosts who share for free are trying to increase their
odds of meeting potential new hires, business partners, or longer term
members/officemates by lowering the barrier to entry into their
spaces. I never said that nobody getting paid was a great business
model. That was one of the audience members. The idea of 'bouncing
around' was in regard to giving Loosecubers an opportunity to try out
various spaces and find one that is the best fit for them (as Jacob
mentioned before).
As we all know, it's not just about connecting people to space, but
connecting people to people. This is why it's so important that
coworkers be given the chance to experiment with different locations
before making a decision to join a particular community. Our entire
team, like all of you, is dedicated to changing the way the world
thinks about work and office space. We want to make it as easy as
possible for people to find and book a desk in a creative and
collaborative environment, ultimately increasing their productivity.
By recently shifting our focus to daily bookings and supporting
various free spaces, we think we're on the right track.
All that said, those of you that know me and the rest of the
Loosecubes team are aware of how much we value feedback. I didn't
become aware of Susan's displeasure with our discussion until today's
e-mail, and I contacted her directly as soon as I could to address her
concerns. I am more than happy to chat with anyone that has questions
about what was said last night and/or Loosecubes in general. Please
don't hesitate to contact me directly at 347-449-0771 or by e-mailing
me at ant...@loosecubes.com.
All the best,
Anthony
On Apr 18, 3:28 pm, "Veel Hoeden- Where Many Hats Meet!"
>
> <http://ink1003.com/p/tp/3ee1a6d9cb9fb511/url> Follow us on Twitter
> From: cowo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cowo...@googlegroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Alex Hillman
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 12:36 PM
> To: cowo...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Coworking] Anthony and Kevin at The Freelancers Union
>
> That (grants/subsidies) is exactly how Gangplank operates, and instead puts
> their focus on building community through participation. I'll let someone
> from Gangplank expound on that more, though.
>
> The key there, though is that they focus on that participation for buy in -
> different from what it sounds like was being recommended to "bounce around".
> Gangplank truly operates as a community in many ways, not just a gathering
> of people as many shared offices tend to be.
>
> That said, though I wasn't at the Freelancer's Union event, I have to feel
> like something here is being misinterpreted or somebody mis-spoke. There was
> a really interesting conversation at the Austin conference about the growing
> notion of people participating in more than once space. It wasn't about
> "free", it was about the fact that some days I want a more
> social/rambunctious workspace. Other times I want more quiet. Other times I
> want more "business-y".
>
> Loosecubes was a part of that conversation and I didn't hear anything
> offensive or off-putting. And that's coming from me, who's actively removed
> Indy Hall from every desk directory I've found us added to and even been
> publicly critical of Loosecubes
> they're doing is bad, I also think that it's not good enough yet. I do think
> that they have the potential to get there if they choose to. Having known
> Campbell personally for a few years now, I remain hopeful. I do hope she
> chimes in here.
>
> The point is, coworking is about choice
>
> Tripp, Devil's advocate here.
>
> Is it possible you could get gov't grants for a full fledged coworking
> space? Or sponsorship to the tune of "enough"?
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Tripp Baltz <tr...@scrib.co> wrote:
>
> Value is the key differentiator between free coworking spaces and coworking
> spaces that charge. Spaces that charge will have more means to provide
> concrete, tangible, community-driven benefits, and thereby drive value for
> their members. When they do that well, "free" coworking spaces will not be
> able to compete.
>
> "Free" coworking is not a good business model. Free coworking space
> operators are not so brilliant they have found a way to overturn the "no
> free lunch" rule.
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Joshua Marpet
>
>
> Wow. Strong words. I was not there, I am not saying the Loosecubes guys
> are scum for ignoring the communities at the places they crash at, or heroes
> for helping individual coworkers save some money.
>
> I am just, I guess, a little unhappy that the really pleasant group of
> people who have gathered here in this online coworking community are seeing
> the rise of elements that they feel prey on coworking.
>
> I wish it weren't so, but it is. So let's discuss it.
>
> Who thinks that the Loosecubes idea of "bouncing" from space to space is a
> horrible one?
>
> Who thinks it's acceptable?
>
> Why?
>
> Why not?
>
> How can we, as a community, protect our spaces, our members, our
> communities, our revenues (kids gotta eat!) from elements that we, as
> individual coworkers, as space owners, and as community stewards, find
> objectionable or unacceptable?
>
> Whether it's a NY Bah-gain hunter, or a Californian indulging a bit too much
> before coming to the space, there will always be individuals or groups that
> make us grit our teeth. How do we deal?
>
> My $.02.
>
> Joshua Marpet
>
>
> read more »
>
> image001.png
> 26KViewDownload
Derek Neighbors
Alex Hillman
Derek Neighbors
Michel co-space
Katherine Warman Kern
Any business is about taking risk. The more control you have over the factors effecting success, the lower the risk. In the creative business, risk factors are redoubled. Collaboration can improve ideas, but one risks an idea being usurped. And then there's the looming inevitable fact that success is in the eye of the beholder. Working for a company with a salary and benefits is one way to compensate for taking these risks.
Without this security, Freelancers face an enormous amount of risk and that risk increases when they collaborate.
Free may be a way to reduce the financial risk of trying a co-working facility, but is that your only concern?
Anthony, as someone who is taking a great deal of personal financial risk and good will to raise the funds to invest in a co-working facility, resources, and methods to reduce the risks and burdens of freelancers in the creative business, I hope that individuals will judge our alternative by more than cheap price.
What are the other features you consider important?
Thanks,
Katherine Warman Kern
www.comradity.com
@comradity
203-918-2617
Katie Hurst
pretty well and echo that many different models need and should exist
to meet the demands of a growing, diverse group of location-neutral
earners.
But don't take it from us. At WhatIsGangplank.com, you can hear from
our participants themselves what working in a social-capital driven
space means and how our community operates.
Katie Hurst
Gangplank HQ
Anthony Marinos
Angel Kwiatkowski
Veel Hoeden- Where Many Hats Meet!
+1
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Campbell McKellar
I hope you are enjoying your Friday and getting ready for a fun and
relaxing weekend.
Just like many people on this list, we have a dream about a better way
of working. Our way may not be the same as yours, and that's OK. The
beauty of all this is that (in our own ways) we are making the world a
better place for lots of people with lots of different needs.
I really appreciate the votes of support we've gotten from the members
of this community, on this string and directly. I look forward to
continuing to collaborate with you all in the service of this
movement.
Please reach out to me directly or any member of our team if you have
any feedback or questions about our company. Our door is always open.
All my best,
Campbell
@cmckella
camp...@loosecubes.com
On Apr 19, 4:12 pm, "Veel Hoeden- Where Many Hats Meet!"
> +1
>
> Thanks & God Bless,
>
> Joel Bennett
>
> Chief Dreamchaser
>
> Veel Hoeden
>
> 641-780-7858
>
> veelhoeden.posterous.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
>
> 26KViewDownload