coworking vs. incubator
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Adam Huttler
Sep 12, 2008, 9:04:11 PM9/12/08
to Coworking
Hi,
I'm wondering if you all can provide some wisdom on the difference
between a coworking space and an "incubator". Is it just semantics?
If there are more substantive distinctions, how would you boil them
down?
Some of the things I'm considering are that perhaps:
- incubator is more actively "curated"?
- incubator accommodates small organizations instead of just
individual freelancers?
- incubator provides onsite technical assistance?
- coworking is more open-ended and informal?
Is that list accurate? What would you add?
Many thanks for any advice you can provide.
Adam
I'm wondering if you all can provide some wisdom on the difference
between a coworking space and an "incubator". Is it just semantics?
If there are more substantive distinctions, how would you boil them
down?
Some of the things I'm considering are that perhaps:
- incubator is more actively "curated"?
- incubator accommodates small organizations instead of just
individual freelancers?
- incubator provides onsite technical assistance?
- coworking is more open-ended and informal?
Is that list accurate? What would you add?
Many thanks for any advice you can provide.
Adam
axon
Sep 12, 2008, 9:15:03 PM9/12/08
to Coworking
Well, I pitch our coworking studio as a "new model for business
incubation". And why do we need a new model? Because the one thing
that incubators do most reliably is fail. Largely because there's
insufficient collaborative critical mass, and because they don't
typically include the services that early stage startups need to get
momentum, such as software developers, graphic designers, and tech
writers, just to name a few. Finally, most incubators get their start
as real estate plays for unmarketable space. In my experience,
unmarketable means undesirable, and it's no more attractive to
entrepreneurs than it is to mortgage brokers, say, even at below
market.
Jane Jacobs, noted urban planner, famously wrote "new ideas need old
buildings". And old buildings tend to be in city centers, where there
are cafes, taverns, and other cultural centers. Richard Florida has
written extensively about the need of the creative class for these
amenities and resources.
We project a census of 40% sole proprietors (but who only use the
center about 10% of the time), 30% freelancers (20% of the time), 20%
remote field force (30% of the time) and 10% startups (40% of the
time). This is a rough estimate, but it makes for a long tail...
We believe this will strike a good balance between passionate
entrepreneurs trying to start the NBT, and workaday SMBs and hired
guns. And we think this is why we think that the next wave of growth
companies will germinate in coworking scenes, which are crucibles for
creativity.
--Ax
On Sep 12, 6:04 pm, Adam Huttler <adam.hutt...@fracturedatlas.org>
wrote:
incubation". And why do we need a new model? Because the one thing
that incubators do most reliably is fail. Largely because there's
insufficient collaborative critical mass, and because they don't
typically include the services that early stage startups need to get
momentum, such as software developers, graphic designers, and tech
writers, just to name a few. Finally, most incubators get their start
as real estate plays for unmarketable space. In my experience,
unmarketable means undesirable, and it's no more attractive to
entrepreneurs than it is to mortgage brokers, say, even at below
market.
Jane Jacobs, noted urban planner, famously wrote "new ideas need old
buildings". And old buildings tend to be in city centers, where there
are cafes, taverns, and other cultural centers. Richard Florida has
written extensively about the need of the creative class for these
amenities and resources.
We project a census of 40% sole proprietors (but who only use the
center about 10% of the time), 30% freelancers (20% of the time), 20%
remote field force (30% of the time) and 10% startups (40% of the
time). This is a rough estimate, but it makes for a long tail...
We believe this will strike a good balance between passionate
entrepreneurs trying to start the NBT, and workaday SMBs and hired
guns. And we think this is why we think that the next wave of growth
companies will germinate in coworking scenes, which are crucibles for
creativity.
--Ax
On Sep 12, 6:04 pm, Adam Huttler <adam.hutt...@fracturedatlas.org>
wrote:
Adam Huttler
Sep 12, 2008, 9:22:43 PM9/12/08
to cowo...@googlegroups.com
Thanks - that's some great context. That said, it sounds like you're ultimately saying it's a semantic distinction. I mean, is the only difference that "incubator" is old-fashioned terminology that's often used to market crap? Or am I missing the point?
Tony Bacigalupo
Sep 12, 2008, 9:35:25 PM9/12/08
to cowo...@googlegroups.com
Coworking's an evolutionary step beyond the traditional image of an incubator. (Same goes for telecommuting --> coworking).
In terms of distinction from incubators, startups in coworking spaces aren't being subsidized and they aren't all strictly startups. Its members are also not all full-timers.
As a result, you have a more diverse work environment of people who are self-sufficient, as opposed to an incubator, where that isn't necessarily the case.
Incubators and coworking spaces are not equivalent, but they share a lot of the same DNA. Like apes and humans.
Take that analogy as far as you see fit :-)
Tony Bacigalupo
New Work City / CooBric / Jelly in NYC
In terms of distinction from incubators, startups in coworking spaces aren't being subsidized and they aren't all strictly startups. Its members are also not all full-timers.
As a result, you have a more diverse work environment of people who are self-sufficient, as opposed to an incubator, where that isn't necessarily the case.
Incubators and coworking spaces are not equivalent, but they share a lot of the same DNA. Like apes and humans.
Take that analogy as far as you see fit :-)
Tony Bacigalupo
New Work City / CooBric / Jelly in NYC
Adam Huttler
Sep 12, 2008, 9:37:34 PM9/12/08
to cowo...@googlegroups.com
Good stuff - thanks!
From: cowo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cowo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Bacigalupo
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 9:35 PM
To: cowo...@googlegroups.com
Derek Young
Sep 13, 2008, 12:28:05 AM9/13/08
to cowo...@googlegroups.com
We've said very definitively that we're not an incubator. Mostly because
every user comes with a core business already defined. I think your bullet
that resonates most with my understanding is the third one. For us to
qualify for incubator grants from the City and the State, we need to offer a
defined program of business development that tracks outcomes and provides
metrics. We simply don't. We're an office service ... And we do lunch and
happy hour together.
every user comes with a core business already defined. I think your bullet
that resonates most with my understanding is the third one. For us to
qualify for incubator grants from the City and the State, we need to offer a
defined program of business development that tracks outcomes and provides
metrics. We simply don't. We're an office service ... And we do lunch and
happy hour together.
At the same time, many of our businesses have gotten stronger by being in
proximity to other like-minded business people. But that's mostly a product
of the community that's naturally created by the way the space is designed.
People that like each other talk. It works.
Derek Young
Suite133
Nate W
Sep 14, 2008, 4:11:49 AM9/14/08
to Coworking
As both an evangelist of coworking and a manager of an incubator, I
think the answer is that:
The terms do mean something different, but both terms are loose and
overlap.
The Incubator at Rose Tech Ventures is more on the coworking end of
the incubator spectrum (residents don't give up equity and we try to
break-even while providing a 'plug-and-play' environment), but we're
very much on the incubator end of the coworking spectrum (since all
residents must be startups and the resources we provide -- like
lunchtime programming around IP law, termsheets, raising $$, etc --
all cater to startups).
Meanwhile, Ax is right that a traditional coworking space provides a
lot of opportunity for cross-pollinating and can be a fantastic
environment for ideas to come to life.
Best option for a company is to look around at what exists and find a
home where they feel welcome and can do the best work.
N
On Sep 13, 12:28 am, Derek Young <yder...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We've said very definitively that we're not an incubator. Mostly because
> every user comes with a core business already defined. I think your bullet
> that resonates most with my understanding is the third one. For us to
> qualify for incubator grants from the City and the State, we need to offer a
> defined program of business development that tracks outcomes and provides
> metrics. We simply don't. We're an office service ... And we do lunch and
> happy hour together.
>
> At the same time, many of our businesses have gotten stronger by being in
> proximity to other like-minded business people. But that's mostly a product
> of the community that's naturally created by the way the space is designed.
> People that like each other talk. It works.
>
> Derek Young
> Suite133
>
think the answer is that:
The terms do mean something different, but both terms are loose and
overlap.
The Incubator at Rose Tech Ventures is more on the coworking end of
the incubator spectrum (residents don't give up equity and we try to
break-even while providing a 'plug-and-play' environment), but we're
very much on the incubator end of the coworking spectrum (since all
residents must be startups and the resources we provide -- like
lunchtime programming around IP law, termsheets, raising $$, etc --
all cater to startups).
Meanwhile, Ax is right that a traditional coworking space provides a
lot of opportunity for cross-pollinating and can be a fantastic
environment for ideas to come to life.
Best option for a company is to look around at what exists and find a
home where they feel welcome and can do the best work.
N
On Sep 13, 12:28 am, Derek Young <yder...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We've said very definitively that we're not an incubator. Mostly because
> every user comes with a core business already defined. I think your bullet
> that resonates most with my understanding is the third one. For us to
> qualify for incubator grants from the City and the State, we need to offer a
> defined program of business development that tracks outcomes and provides
> metrics. We simply don't. We're an office service ... And we do lunch and
> happy hour together.
>
> At the same time, many of our businesses have gotten stronger by being in
> proximity to other like-minded business people. But that's mostly a product
> of the community that's naturally created by the way the space is designed.
> People that like each other talk. It works.
>
> Derek Young
> Suite133
>
Alex Hillman
Sep 14, 2008, 9:46:14 AM9/14/08
to cowo...@googlegroups.com
The simplest way to approach this is the same way we determine what operations fall under the coworking umbrella: their core values. While incubator and coworking businesses services tend to overlap, their individual purposes are very clearly defined. Incubators *can* encourage coworking. Coworking *can* incubate independents, businesses, and even products and services.
Just remember, in all cases, the core values remain in place and, more importantly, in prominence. Community, Collaboration, Openness, Sustainability, Accessability.
In the last 6 months alone, I've seen the following examples take place:
Example:
Incubation encouraging coworking - DreamIT Ventures is a Philly version of the now popular Y-Combinator model, sort of a "startup summer camp". Startups apply, recieve a small amount of seed funding, and are placed in physical proximity with a number of other startups that share, at the very least, one thing: a reasonably common place in their startup cycle. The business services and cash aside, I was lucky enough to consult with one of the DreamIT startups and quickly realized (and I wasn't the only one to verbalize this) that the REAL value in the program was the comradery of growing your startup together alongside other startups. Sharing in successes and failures. Giving and recieving advice. Becoming stronger as a collective of teams.
"Funding Day", their "summer camp graduation" event, was last week, and seeing the result of 4 months of growing businesses together is something that's amazing.
Coworking incubating independents, ideas, products, teams, and even regions - Many of you already know about the activities and results that we've had organically form within our community at IndyHall. Some of the larger succsses are iSepta and RipIt.app, but there are other, less visible ones: we've been there for more than a handful of people who left their jobs that they hated to go independent, and they credit the community of Indyhall for allowing them to be able to be comfortable taking the leap. We've had our fingers in dozens and dozens of events that have quite literally changed the landscape of the city. Geoff is even deeper down in the civic rabbit hole, working directly with the city on some committees for the Mayor.
I'm not saying this to brag, it has nothing to do with ego. My point is, coworking has such immense gravity and influence on more than just where people are working. Even the members we've had that joined simply for desk space quickly realized what they were involved in, and without anyone asking or telling them to, changed their tune and became more community oriented.
In all of these instances, the core values have been at the forefont of an initative and the results have been hugely positive. I know I have a habit of getting preachy, but it really comes down to the recipe model (or the pizza anaolgy, as Tony has taken it). If I order a steak and it's got a side of greens on the plate, that's fine. But if I order a steak and I get a salad with a couple of strips of sirloin across the top, I'm going to be pissed.
Incubation is *extremely* valuable, with and without coworking as part of it's model. Coworking is *extremely* valuable, with and without the incubation.
Call a spade a spade. Get over your identity crisis. It's simple:
</rant>
-Alex Hillman, IndyHall
p.s. I'm re-posting this, with some of your quotes from the previous thread, on my blog: dangerouslyawesome.com
p.p.s. I acknowledge that this rant probably came across more intense than I intended, but I can't seem to convince myself to revise it. So realize that, as you'll see in my blog post, I agree with almost everything that's been said in this thread so far. I just wanted to get a substantial comment out backed with examples and fact.
I still love y'all :)
--
-----
--
-----
Alex Hillman
im always developing something
digital: al...@weknowhtml.com
visual: www.dangerouslyawesome.com
local: www.indyhall.org
Just remember, in all cases, the core values remain in place and, more importantly, in prominence. Community, Collaboration, Openness, Sustainability, Accessability.
In the last 6 months alone, I've seen the following examples take place:
Example:
Incubation encouraging coworking - DreamIT Ventures is a Philly version of the now popular Y-Combinator model, sort of a "startup summer camp". Startups apply, recieve a small amount of seed funding, and are placed in physical proximity with a number of other startups that share, at the very least, one thing: a reasonably common place in their startup cycle. The business services and cash aside, I was lucky enough to consult with one of the DreamIT startups and quickly realized (and I wasn't the only one to verbalize this) that the REAL value in the program was the comradery of growing your startup together alongside other startups. Sharing in successes and failures. Giving and recieving advice. Becoming stronger as a collective of teams.
"Funding Day", their "summer camp graduation" event, was last week, and seeing the result of 4 months of growing businesses together is something that's amazing.
Coworking incubating independents, ideas, products, teams, and even regions - Many of you already know about the activities and results that we've had organically form within our community at IndyHall. Some of the larger succsses are iSepta and RipIt.app, but there are other, less visible ones: we've been there for more than a handful of people who left their jobs that they hated to go independent, and they credit the community of Indyhall for allowing them to be able to be comfortable taking the leap. We've had our fingers in dozens and dozens of events that have quite literally changed the landscape of the city. Geoff is even deeper down in the civic rabbit hole, working directly with the city on some committees for the Mayor.
I'm not saying this to brag, it has nothing to do with ego. My point is, coworking has such immense gravity and influence on more than just where people are working. Even the members we've had that joined simply for desk space quickly realized what they were involved in, and without anyone asking or telling them to, changed their tune and became more community oriented.
In all of these instances, the core values have been at the forefont of an initative and the results have been hugely positive. I know I have a habit of getting preachy, but it really comes down to the recipe model (or the pizza anaolgy, as Tony has taken it). If I order a steak and it's got a side of greens on the plate, that's fine. But if I order a steak and I get a salad with a couple of strips of sirloin across the top, I'm going to be pissed.
Incubation is *extremely* valuable, with and without coworking as part of it's model. Coworking is *extremely* valuable, with and without the incubation.
Call a spade a spade. Get over your identity crisis. It's simple:
Be a part of a community, and be a community leader. If you're not doing one of those two things, you're probably not coworking.
Encourage collaboration at every opportunity. Being open and transparent helps that.
Sustainability is just as much about eco-friendly practices as it is making sure that the things you're doing within your community work towards it's ability to sustain itself.
Accessibility, to me, means not being exclusive. If you asked me a year ago if I expected the diversity of IndyHall to include government-focused business strategy consultants, green home developers, video game programmers, and educators, I'd have laughed. But today, we have all of that and more. Accessibility of the resources to anyone who benefits from them is important. I'm not here to evaluate your business model. My only concern is that you're making enough money to pay our membership dues.</rant>
-Alex Hillman, IndyHall
p.s. I'm re-posting this, with some of your quotes from the previous thread, on my blog: dangerouslyawesome.com
p.p.s. I acknowledge that this rant probably came across more intense than I intended, but I can't seem to convince myself to revise it. So realize that, as you'll see in my blog post, I agree with almost everything that's been said in this thread so far. I just wanted to get a substantial comment out backed with examples and fact.
I still love y'all :)
--
-----
--
-----
Alex Hillman
im always developing something
digital: al...@weknowhtml.com
visual: www.dangerouslyawesome.com
local: www.indyhall.org
Geoff DiMasi
Sep 14, 2008, 8:22:20 PM9/14/08
to cowo...@googlegroups.com
When we first launched Indy Hall I wrote a blog post about this idea
that some might find interesting.
that some might find interesting.
http://window.punkave.com/2007/09/07/independents-hall/
Geoff
Indy Hall
--
Geoff DiMasi
P'unk Avenue
215 755 1330
punkave.com
window.punkave.com
Adam Huttler
Sep 14, 2008, 8:50:53 PM9/14/08
to cowo...@googlegroups.com
This doesn't come across as a rant at all. It's great
advice articulated clearly. Thanks for your insights.
Adam
From: cowo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cowo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hillman
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 9:46 AM
axon
Sep 25, 2008, 1:31:58 PM9/25/08
to Coworking
I posted the following on Alex's blog, and since this discussion seems
to be taking place in two dimensions, I'm reposting it here.
--
I think some incubators certainly are guilty as charged (re:
exploitative). Others not so much, inasmuch as they are not-for-profit
economic development efforts informed by good intentions (but little
else).
I’d like to step back from definitions for a moment, since none of us
has any authority to state unequivocally what an incubator or
coworking is.
Coworking is a movement in its infancy, sezaxon. I think there may be
as many different models for it as there are iterations of it. Some
spaces are “resident desk” models, for example. Others are more ad hoc
and cafe-styled. And pretty much everything in between. The one thing
they seem to have in common is a shared set of values (that are still
evolving, I might point out.) When I first started looking into it,
I’d already created a model for my own iteration, even before I knew
anyone else was doing something similar. By the time I’d written my
business plan, I learned there were Four Value Pillars. Shortly
thereafter, it was Five (add Accessibility). There seems to be a Sixth
emerging (add Localism?) Who knows what may accrete to this.
In my strategic planning practice, I start with Vision, *then* Values.
And I’m not persuaded that we all share the same vision, even if we
pledge adherence to the value set. For me, the important question is
*Purpose*. Once you have a clear and compelling vision of what you
could be, you boil it down to the core purpose. Vision should be
aspirational; Purpose is cardinal. Principles (or Values), are
ordinal. I know this is doctrine, but stay with me.
My Purpose in creating a coworking space is to stimulate economic
development through entrepreneurial initiative. I hope that early
stage startups will see the value in coworking *as a community of
interest*, not just the use of the internets and the copy machine.
That’s my strategic imperative.
Community for its own sake is a wonderful thing, but a community
coalesced around a shared purpose has enormous potential to be a
disruptive force for positive social change in the larger society it
inhabits. A coworking scene that hosts a dozen independent workers who
share risks and rewards, obligations and opportunities, can be a great
springboard for those workers to achieve more, individually, and as a
discrete community. No blame.
But my vision is to create a multifaceted community that can be a
crucible for emerging innovation enterprises with the potential to
become very large companies creating career-grade employment
opportunities for knowledge workers, who in turn will stimulate
economic activity, establish themselves in the civic deliberation, and
contribute positively to regional prosperity. It’s a lot to ask of a
workplace, but I’m optimistic.
Earlier, Alex bemoaned the lack of consistent message materials, and
Blake suggested that marketing should emphasize the community aspects,
rather than the transactional (and presumably the infrastructure
assets). From my one-sheet (feel free to plagiar– er, repurpose to
suit): “an ad hoc collaborative network of like minds, domain experts,
private investors, coaches, and mentors available to help you achieve
success; in person, on the phone, and on the web. It’s a professional
social circle that shares your entrepreneurial passion and priorities.
It’s regularly scheduled guest speakers, workshops, panel discussions,
and networking events for executive development and strategic
relationship building.” This doesn’t really address the feel-good
aspects of community, but it does, I think, evoke a sense of communal
intimacy.
--Ax
to be taking place in two dimensions, I'm reposting it here.
--
I think some incubators certainly are guilty as charged (re:
exploitative). Others not so much, inasmuch as they are not-for-profit
economic development efforts informed by good intentions (but little
else).
I’d like to step back from definitions for a moment, since none of us
has any authority to state unequivocally what an incubator or
coworking is.
Coworking is a movement in its infancy, sezaxon. I think there may be
as many different models for it as there are iterations of it. Some
spaces are “resident desk” models, for example. Others are more ad hoc
and cafe-styled. And pretty much everything in between. The one thing
they seem to have in common is a shared set of values (that are still
evolving, I might point out.) When I first started looking into it,
I’d already created a model for my own iteration, even before I knew
anyone else was doing something similar. By the time I’d written my
business plan, I learned there were Four Value Pillars. Shortly
thereafter, it was Five (add Accessibility). There seems to be a Sixth
emerging (add Localism?) Who knows what may accrete to this.
In my strategic planning practice, I start with Vision, *then* Values.
And I’m not persuaded that we all share the same vision, even if we
pledge adherence to the value set. For me, the important question is
*Purpose*. Once you have a clear and compelling vision of what you
could be, you boil it down to the core purpose. Vision should be
aspirational; Purpose is cardinal. Principles (or Values), are
ordinal. I know this is doctrine, but stay with me.
My Purpose in creating a coworking space is to stimulate economic
development through entrepreneurial initiative. I hope that early
stage startups will see the value in coworking *as a community of
interest*, not just the use of the internets and the copy machine.
That’s my strategic imperative.
Community for its own sake is a wonderful thing, but a community
coalesced around a shared purpose has enormous potential to be a
disruptive force for positive social change in the larger society it
inhabits. A coworking scene that hosts a dozen independent workers who
share risks and rewards, obligations and opportunities, can be a great
springboard for those workers to achieve more, individually, and as a
discrete community. No blame.
But my vision is to create a multifaceted community that can be a
crucible for emerging innovation enterprises with the potential to
become very large companies creating career-grade employment
opportunities for knowledge workers, who in turn will stimulate
economic activity, establish themselves in the civic deliberation, and
contribute positively to regional prosperity. It’s a lot to ask of a
workplace, but I’m optimistic.
Earlier, Alex bemoaned the lack of consistent message materials, and
Blake suggested that marketing should emphasize the community aspects,
rather than the transactional (and presumably the infrastructure
assets). From my one-sheet (feel free to plagiar– er, repurpose to
suit): “an ad hoc collaborative network of like minds, domain experts,
private investors, coaches, and mentors available to help you achieve
success; in person, on the phone, and on the web. It’s a professional
social circle that shares your entrepreneurial passion and priorities.
It’s regularly scheduled guest speakers, workshops, panel discussions,
and networking events for executive development and strategic
relationship building.” This doesn’t really address the feel-good
aspects of community, but it does, I think, evoke a sense of communal
intimacy.
--Ax
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