narrator.device and translator.library version
Gillou
narrator.device and translator.library couple ?
- Why this ( :) marvellous) package disappear on v40 (WB 3.1) ?
- Where to find that 37 version ? (the last version released I think, (I've
passed through v33 directly to v40)).
Johnny Tevessen
> - What are the main differences between 33 and 37 version of the
> narrator.device and translator.library couple ?
The voice sounds a bit better. Maybe some bugfixes. Not much.
> - Why this ( :) marvellous) package disappear on v40 (WB 3.1) ?
Mmh. Why did AmigaBasic disappear? Don't know, but the 2.0 libs
work with 3.x, too.
ciao,
johnny
--
echo '$0&$0'>_;sh ./_
Matt Hey
On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:14:50 +0100, "Gillou" wrote about narrator.device and translator.library version:
> - What are the main differences between 33 and 37 version of the
> narrator.device and translator.library couple ?
I don't expect much.
> - Why this ( :) marvellous) package disappear on v40 (WB 3.1) ?
Probabely because it would have taken too much work to support other
languages.
> - Where to find that 37 version ? (the last version released I think, (I've
> passed through v33 directly to v40)).
You would need a 1.3.3 (I think) Workbench disk to get the device. You
can find a replacement translator.library on Aminet that supports other
languages. Do a search for translator.
Matt Hey (http://www.kcinter.net/~matthey)
Matt 'Neko' Sealey
> > narrator.device and translator.library couple ?
>
There is a v44 (I think) version of translator.library on the Aminet. It
supports accents, so you can "talk" like a Parisian or a Klingon, albeit
in a Steven Hawking kind of way..
> > - Why this ( :) marvellous) package disappear on v40 (WB 3.1) ?
>
> Mmh. Why did AmigaBasic disappear? Don't know, but the 2.0 libs
> work with 3.x, too.
The guys who designed translator and narrator had a spat with C=,
much like William Hawes did (the ARexx guy), so C= had to withdraw
it from the OS distribution. Everybody has a copy anyway!
--
Matt Sealey mw...@le.ac.uk
Distributed Systems Support
Computer Centre
University of Leicester
Chris Young
<gilles.p...@lemel.fr> wrote:
>- What are the main differences between 33 and 37 version of the
>narrator.device and translator.library couple ?
(everybody has already answered this bit)
>- Why this ( :) marvellous) package disappear on v40 (WB 3.1) ?
Due to licensing restrictions: C= didn't re-licence the package for
WB2.1+
>- Where to find that 37 version ? (the last version released I think, (I've
>passed through v33 directly to v40)).
On the Workbench 2.04/2.05 disks :-)
It's illegal for the files to be distributed, so I suggest you find
somebody willing to sell you a copy of WB2.04 :-)
Alternatively, there's a similar (free) speech handler on Aminet. As
somebody else has already mentioned.
Chris
--
Unsatisfactory Software - "because it is"
http://www.unsatisfactory.freeserve.co.uk
ICQ:28784166
Matt 'Neko' Sealey
(I've
> >passed through v33 directly to v40)).
>
> On the Workbench 2.04/2.05 disks :-)
>
> It's illegal for the files to be distributed, so I suggest you find
> somebody willing to sell you a copy of WB2.04 :-)
>
> Alternatively, there's a similar (free) speech handler on Aminet. As
> somebody else has already mentioned.
You need the narrator.device for it though. So you`ll have to
get the original versions first.. and then install the new translator
over it.
Maybe someone will write a new translator/narrator for Amigasoft!?
Michael Boehnisch
Gilles Pelletier wrote:
>- What are the main differences between 33 and 37 version of the
>narrator.device and translator.library couple ?
The quality of the output was greatly enhanced. The device now offers
a finer control of the speech controlling parameters.
>- Why this ( :) marvellous) package disappear on v40 (WB 3.1) ?
<RUMOUR>
AFAIK, it was not developed & and written by Commodore but licensed
by a third party company. As it was not used very much and CBM had to
pay license fees for it, it was dropped.
</RUMOUR>
Same applies to AmigaBasic, actually copyrighted by Microsoft (YUCK! I
had a MS program running on my poor Amiga, how could I???)
It did not work very well with CPUs other than the 68000, banged the
audio hardware directly and the editor was "interesting", to call it
nicely. It had it's own fan community, though, (Greetings to Dr. P.K.
:-)
>- Where to find that 37 version ? (the last version released I think, (I've
>passed through v33 directly to v40)).
I'm not completely sure, but I think the 2.04 disk set was the last one
that included the narrator software. Maybe 2.1, too, but I cannot
verify
this as I sold my 2.1 set years ago.
Note, however, there is a very nice patch to the narrator device on
Aminet.
Just my $.02,
Michael Böhnisch
Chris Young
<bi...@psycho.uni-paderborn.de> wrote:
>I'm not completely sure, but I think the 2.04 disk set was the last one
>that included the narrator software.
2.05 had it, although apparently some (later?) 2.05 disks failed to
include it.
>Maybe 2.1, too, but I cannot
>verify
>this as I sold my 2.1 set years ago.
2.1 definitely didn't have the software.
Matt 'Neko' Sealey
> Note, however, there is a very nice patch to the narrator device on
> Aminet.
Where? I have never seen a patch/replacement/fix for narrator.device
on Aminet. translator.library has a few replacements, but not
narrator.device. Unless you can enlighten me otherwise ;)
Paul Hill
>Same applies to AmigaBasic, actually copyrighted by Microsoft (YUCK! I
>had a MS program running on my poor Amiga, how could I???)
>It did not work very well with CPUs other than the 68000, banged the
>audio hardware directly and the editor was "interesting", to call it
>nicely. It had it's own fan community, though, (Greetings to Dr. P.K.
>:-)
AFAIK AmigaBASIC's problems are with 32bit RAM (i.e. RAM located above the
24bit range) rather than CPUs > 68000. Looks like they used the upper 8bit
of address registers to hold flags.
Anyone know anything about the old BASIC 'ABasic' which I think was
supplied previously to AmigaBASIC. ABasic had a 8-bit style interface (you
know, like C64 BASIC).
--
Paul
r.m.@usa.net
Young) wrote:
>In a (failed) attempt to take over the universe, "Gillou"
><gilles.p...@lemel.fr> wrote:
>
>>- What are the main differences between 33 and 37 version of the
>>narrator.device and translator.library couple ?
>
>(everybody has already answered this bit)
>
>>- Why this ( :) marvellous) package disappear on v40 (WB 3.1) ?
>
>Due to licensing restrictions: C= didn't re-licence the package for
>WB2.1+
Actually it was with the 2.05 release that it was no longer available
which is what the 600 came with.
>>- Where to find that 37 version ? (the last version released I think, (I've
>>passed through v33 directly to v40)).
>
>On the Workbench 2.04/2.05 disks :-)
2.04 yes, but not 2.05 I have 2.05 and it isn't on there.
Kenton A. Groombridge
the full 2.05, it was there. 2.05 was the last version of the OS that
shipped with narrator.device and translator.library
I just read that 3.5 will have these on it. I am not sure if they
will be updated or not. Hopefully my SayMore program (available
on Aminet) will be compatable with them it they were updated. I have
been really busy for the past 6 months and haven't had time to update
my program, but the next release should be really nice.
Kenton Groombridge
kgro...@mindspring.com
Shawn D'Alimonte
: Anyone know anything about the old BASIC 'ABasic' which I think was
: supplied previously to AmigaBASIC. ABasic had a 8-bit style interface (you
: know, like C64 BASIC).
I have a copy of it on an old PD disk somewhere. There are no docs
(one of the games needs it). The statup message is:
ABasiC by MetaComCo.
+++ Version 1.00 +++
Copyright (C) 1985,
Commodore Amiga Inc.
All Rights Reserved
Ok
The interface is sorta C64 like, but the prompt is 'Ok' like
AmigaBasic, except it doesn't put a newline after it. There is no
seperate editor and line numbers are needed. The syntax seems M$
like, but all of the support commands (graphics, etc>) are different.
A feature I found interesting is the init,bas file which is run
automatically when ABasic is started. For this game the ABasic binary
was named 'Backgammon' and init.bas contained the game itself.
I got it working and took a screen shot if anyone is intereseted. See
http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~sdalimon/abasic/abasic.html for some
details.
I had to use UAE to get it running. It doesn't like my A3000. I
tried TUDE and even KS1.3, but it needed UAE (using KS1.2) to run. Of
course it was too slow to be of much use seeing as I only have a
25 MHz '030 and need to use VMM.
--
Shawn D'Alimonte - sdal...@ee.ryerson.ca
-----Under university lab conditions, the laws of nature do not apply-----
Olaf Barthel
> [..]
> The interface is sorta C64 like, but the prompt is 'Ok' like
> AmigaBasic, except it doesn't put a newline after it. There is no
> seperate editor and line numbers are needed. The syntax seems M$
> like, but all of the support commands (graphics, etc>) are different.
> A feature I found interesting is the init,bas file which is run
> automatically when ABasic is started. For this game the ABasic binary
> was named 'Backgammon' and init.bas contained the game itself.
>
> I got it working and took a screen shot if anyone is intereseted. See
> http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~sdalimon/abasic/abasic.html for some
> details.
>
> I had to use UAE to get it running. It doesn't like my A3000. I
> tried TUDE and even KS1.3, but it needed UAE (using KS1.2) to run. Of
> course it was too slow to be of much use seeing as I only have a
> 25 MHz '030 and need to use VMM.
ABasiC should run on an Amiga 3000, but not under Kickstart 2.x
and above due to changes in the dos.library that make text
input unreliable.
--
Home: Olaf Barthel, Brabeckstrasse 35, D-30559 Hannover
Net: ol...@sourcery.han.de
Matt 'Neko' Sealey
> >
> >Due to licensing restrictions: C= didn't re-licence the package for
> >WB2.1+
>
> Actually it was with the 2.05 release that it was no longer available
> which is what the 600 came with.
I have an A600 here, and the workbench disks have the "say" tool on
them, plus all the files needed to run it. They are bog standard 2.05
disks, got them with the machine. Maybe you have a later revision,
the one I have was one of the first out.
Jim Cooper
Now you're gonna make me dig out my old disassembly of ABasiC... :-)
The main reason ABasiC won't work on anything over 1.3 is because of
the way it tries to open the window it uses.
MetaComco outsmarted themselves when they did that window opening
code, and did a direct, undocumented BCPL call, instead of using
OpenWindow() or some other reasonable interface.
Sure, it worked fine as long as we still had the old BCPL core in the
system, but when that went away...
Maybe I should genereate the patch I always meant to distribute...
I loved messing with ABasiC when I got my first A1000 (Nov. 1985 :-)
... one of the first things I did with it was write a terminal program
so I could connect to my local BBS. One of the first things I
downloaded, of course, was a terminal program written in assembler.
:-)
Chris Young
Cooper) wrote:
>> ABasiC should run on an Amiga 3000, but not under Kickstart 2.x
>>and above due to changes in the dos.library that make text
>>input unreliable.
>
>Now you're gonna make me dig out my old disassembly of ABasiC... :-)
>
>The main reason ABasiC won't work on anything over 1.3 is because of
>the way it tries to open the window it uses.
>
>MetaComco outsmarted themselves when they did that window opening
>code, and did a direct, undocumented BCPL call, instead of using
>OpenWindow() or some other reasonable interface.
Perhaps OpenWindow() wasn't available in the early OS version they
developed ABasiC with?
Olaf Barthel
> In a (failed) attempt to take over the universe, ja...@sas.com (Jim
> Cooper) wrote:
>
> >> ABasiC should run on an Amiga 3000, but not under Kickstart 2.x
> >>and above due to changes in the dos.library that make text
> >>input unreliable.
> >
> >Now you're gonna make me dig out my old disassembly of ABasiC... :-)
> >
> >The main reason ABasiC won't work on anything over 1.3 is because of
> >the way it tries to open the window it uses.
> >
> >MetaComco outsmarted themselves when they did that window opening
> >code, and did a direct, undocumented BCPL call, instead of using
> >OpenWindow() or some other reasonable interface.
>
> Perhaps OpenWindow() wasn't available in the early OS version they
> developed ABasiC with?
It sure was available, the difficult bit was to open an AmigaDOS
console window on a custom screen. What ABasiC did was to open a window on
a custom screen (using OpenWindow(), what else ;) and then called
a BCPL library function to turn that window into a console window
that would respond to standard ACTION_READ/ACTION_WRITE packets.
This functionality was removed when dos.library was rewritten for
AmigaOS 2.0. Nowadays that functionality is available through the
CON: handler.
Paul Hill
>Paul Hill <pa...@lagernet.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>: Anyone know anything about the old BASIC 'ABasic' which I think was
>: supplied previously to AmigaBASIC. ABasic had a 8-bit style interface (you
>: know, like C64 BASIC).
>I have a copy of it on an old PD disk somewhere. There are no docs
>(one of the games needs it). The statup message is:
>ABasiC by MetaComCo.
>+++ Version 1.00 +++
>Copyright (C) 1985,
>Commodore Amiga Inc.
>All Rights Reserved
>Ok
Yep, this is what I've got. Does anyone know if it was ever supplied with
the OS? MetaComCo wrote early Amiga compilers/assemblers, right?
>The interface is sorta C64 like, but the prompt is 'Ok' like
>AmigaBasic, except it doesn't put a newline after it. There is no
>seperate editor and line numbers are needed. The syntax seems M$
>like, but all of the support commands (graphics, etc>) are different.
>A feature I found interesting is the init,bas file which is run
>automatically when ABasic is started. For this game the ABasic binary
>was named 'Backgammon' and init.bas contained the game itself.
I think you have the same PD disks as me! There were a bunch of card games
and such that were bundled with my A500. My A500 was one of the first to
have Kickstart 1.3 - it still came with Workbench 1.2 on disk.
--
Paul
Jim Cooper
<pa...@lagernet.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>Shawn D'Alimonte wrote ABasic (Re: narrator.device and translator.library version):
>>Paul Hill <pa...@lagernet.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>: Anyone know anything about the old BASIC 'ABasic' which I think was
>>: supplied previously to AmigaBASIC. ABasic had a 8-bit style interface (you
>>: know, like C64 BASIC).
>
>>I have a copy of it on an old PD disk somewhere. There are no docs
>>(one of the games needs it). The statup message is:
>>ABasiC by MetaComCo.
>>+++ Version 1.00 +++
>>Copyright (C) 1985,
>>Commodore Amiga Inc.
>>All Rights Reserved
>>Ok
>
>Yep, this is what I've got. Does anyone know if it was ever supplied with
>the OS? MetaComCo wrote early Amiga compilers/assemblers, right?
Yes. It came with KS 1.0, and maybe 1.1, too.
MetaComCo also did a Pascal compiler, and a Lisp package.
r.m.@usa.net
<mw...@le.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> Actually it was with the 2.05 release that it was no longer available
>> which is what the 600 came with.
>
>I have an A600 here, and the workbench disks have the "say" tool on
>them, plus all the files needed to run it. They are bog standard 2.05
>disks, got them with the machine. Maybe you have a later revision,
>the one I have was one of the first out.
Probably, got mine just before the 1200 came out. Ordered a few bits
of PD stuff and one of them required the narrator.device and I
couldn't find it anywhere on the disks so it woudln't work. So some
2.05s had it, some didn't.
r.m.@usa.net
<kgro...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>The OS that was shipped with the A600 was stripped. If you purchased
>the full 2.05, it was there. 2.05 was the last version of the OS that
>shipped with narrator.device and translator.library
Hmm, I thought 2.05 was 600 specific. Oh, well.
Bob Lanham
> >The OS that was shipped with the A600 was stripped. If you purchased
> >the full 2.05, it was there. 2.05 was the last version of the OS that
> >shipped with narrator.device and translator.library
>
> Hmm, I thought 2.05 was 600 specific. Oh, well.
I have 2.05 because I bought it as a kit (with ROM) for my A2000. And
yes, it has the narrator stuff.
Jeff Grimmett
> >The OS that was shipped with the A600 was stripped. If you purchased
> >the full 2.05, it was there. 2.05 was the last version of the OS that
> >shipped with narrator.device and translator.library
> Hmm, I thought 2.05 was 600 specific. Oh, well.
At the time of the last WOA to be held in L.A. (Glendale, actually, but
let's not quibble) my girlfiend (not a spelling error, unfortunately)
bought AmigaDOS 2.04 for her A2000, and was suprised to find out that
she had bought AmigaDOS 2.05 instead. The differences are not worth
mentioning outside of the PCMCIA code in the kickstart, or so I am told.
--
// Jeff Grimmett . ICQ 17300370 . http://www.ald.net/dlg
// --------------------------------------------------------
// Digerati Dreams : DLG Pro BBOS : Skimmer : Nag Plus
// : Addiction FTP : ASTG :
// --------------------------------------------------------
Gregory S. Donner
> I have 2.05 because I bought it as a kit (with ROM) for my A2000. And
> yes, it has the narrator stuff.
Bob, could you also post the version number and full date of the
version.library file on the 2.05 Workbench disk? I'll try and get the
results of this posted on the WB Nostalgia page.
--
Greg
Gregory S. Donner
> The OS that was shipped with the A600 was stripped. If you purchased
> the full 2.05, it was there. 2.05 was the last version of the OS that
> shipped with narrator.device and translator.library
>
> I just read that 3.5 will have these on it. I am not sure if they
> will be updated or not. Hopefully my SayMore program (available
> on Aminet) will be compatable with them it they were updated. I have
> been really busy for the past 6 months and haven't had time to update
> my program, but the next release should be really nice.
It might be the new (fifth!) generation:
http://www.text2speech.com/tts/
--
Greg
Gregory S. Donner
> I have an A600 here, and the workbench disks have the "say" tool on
> them, plus all the files needed to run it. They are bog standard 2.05
> disks, got them with the machine. Maybe you have a later revision,
> the one I have was one of the first out.
Could you post the full date (and version) of the version.library file
on the Workbench 2.05 disks? I have a set of 2.05 disks that don't, and
would like to try and nail down perhaps a date difference between the
two.
--
Greg
Bob Lanham
The version.library file is dated 09-Jan-92 10:13:53A.
I ran "version df0:libs/version.library" on the floppy and it returned
37.71.
Also when I booted from the 2.05 floppy, the about menu said WB 37.71.
Hope that helps!
Bob L.
Mark
> Now you're gonna make me dig out my old disassembly of ABasiC... :-)
Hmm, I worked on that too some time ago. Good old ReSource.
> The main reason ABasiC won't work on anything over 1.3 is because of
> the way it tries to open the window it uses.
>
> MetaComco outsmarted themselves when they did that window opening
> code, and did a direct, undocumented BCPL call, instead of using
> OpenWindow() or some other reasonable interface.
As I recall they used OpenWindow(), but an "undocumented" way of attaching a
CON: type thing to that window.
> Sure, it worked fine as long as we still had the old BCPL core in the
> system, but when that went away...
On one of the Fish disks is an example program by Andy Finkel that uses the
same technique. Given this, it's surprising that this technique wasn't
supported in 2.0.
> Maybe I should genereate the patch I always meant to distribute...
Please do! I had a go at this (using CON:///WINDOW or something to attach the
console to the already-opened window). No luck.
> I loved messing with ABasiC when I got my first A1000 (Nov. 1985 :-)
Did ABasiC come with any documentation? I'd like to get hold of that; I
prefer ABasiC to AmigaBASIC.
Regards,
-- Mark
mark_k (at) iname.com
Jim Cooper
>Jim Cooper wrote:
>> The main reason ABasiC won't work on anything over 1.3 is because of
>> the way it tries to open the window it uses.
>>
>> MetaComco outsmarted themselves when they did that window opening
>> code, and did a direct, undocumented BCPL call, instead of using
>> OpenWindow() or some other reasonable interface.
>
>As I recall they used OpenWindow(), but an "undocumented" way of attaching a
>CON: type thing to that window.
Ok, you caught me. Yes, this is a more precise explanation.
>> Sure, it worked fine as long as we still had the old BCPL core in the
>> system, but when that went away...
>
>On one of the Fish disks is an example program by Andy Finkel that uses the
>same technique. Given this, it's surprising that this technique wasn't
>supported in 2.0.
They already held up 2.04 release by over a year trying to make it
support old hacks, etc. It would have killed the release times even
further to hack back in the undocumented BCPL stuff they had already
spent so much time trying to get rid of.
>> Maybe I should genereate the patch I always meant to distribute...
>
>Please do! I had a go at this (using CON:///WINDOW or something to attach the
>console to the already-opened window). No luck.
Heh. Maybe I will...
>> I loved messing with ABasiC when I got my first A1000 (Nov. 1985 :-)
>
>Did ABasiC come with any documentation? I'd like to get hold of that; I
>prefer ABasiC to AmigaBASIC.
It certainly did. A rather nice little book, of a couple hundred
pages. I wonder where my copy is, these days...
Gillou
I've found the main difference between v33 and v37 (v37.7) version of the
narrator.device:
-Natural mode (both)
-Robotic mode (both)
-Manual mode with misc parameters to control a lot of things (v37 only)
I found that v37.7 version of narrator on a WB2.04 disk.
It works fine with Translator42 (aminet)
Thanks a lot!
Chris Young
Cooper) wrote:
>They already held up 2.04 release by over a year trying to make it
>support old hacks, etc. It would have killed the release times even
>further to hack back in the undocumented BCPL stuff they had already
>spent so much time trying to get rid of.
Anybody who uses undocumented features is asking for their software
not to work on newer versions of the OS anyway...
Swngdnz
>not to work on newer versions of the OS anyway...
Unfortunately, if you've ever seen the 1.0 and 1.1 documentation -- there isn't
much of it. And the "right" ways to do some things just flat out weren't
documented. Does that stop users from demanding features? Heck no. Can one of
those feature make or break a comparison of you to the competition? Absolutely.
If the market had been there, those developers would still be around to release
new versions. Oh well.