A newbie question - trying to resize a given 15GB vdi file to a bigger one
tino
I originally posted this question in the Ruby on Rails talk group but
thought I should go ahead and ask it here as well (anybody who sees
this twice - sorry for multiple posts)
I am very new to Linux (using it about a week or so..
I'm using a Windows Vista 64bit host machine, on which I installed the
latest VirtualBox (3.2.6).
The problem occured when using a guest machine image based on Linux 8
Helena.. being a newbie I thought this image could help me start
without the need of installing everything from scratch, at least till
I acquire enough knowledge to do so more confidently
Anyway - I used the following: http://www.virtualrails.org/
My question:
I've been using Virtual Rails for about a week.. pretty quick
and with no special effort I got 13GB out of the available fixed 15GB
used (I realise a more experienced Linux user could maybe have done
what I did with less.. but in my feeling 15 GB are
pretty limiting and I don't wish to constantly keep worrying about the
capacity of my guest machine..)
Therefore - went ahead and read about resizing partitions..
Have found some really great tutorials out there and followed a
procedure using GParted Live CD in order to copy the existing
partition into a bigger one.
(looked into these tutorials among many others:
http://www.my-guides.net/en/content/view/122/1/
http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=364&start=30
)
Anyway, my existing (smaller) partition had a primary partition
(flagged with 'boot'), with ext4 file system and in addition the HD
had an extended small partition of about 690MB and inside had /dev/
sda5 marked with 'linux swap'.. I'm mentioning these setting by heart
now so hope I'm not using the terms wrongly (if I do - please forgive
me and of course - correct me whenever you can, I really am a newbie
and I want to learn and understand:) )..
Anyway - tried to copy these setting
(both the primary partition and the extended one into the bigger HD I
put as a primary slave.. yet any combination I tried (and tried a lot,
everything I could think about, moving, resizing, leaving extra room
unallocated..) - gave me an error saying (referring to the /dev/sda5
copying only) - the source is bigger than the destination and
therefore the copying did not work..
(I suspect it might be related to this:
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/download.php )
Anyway, when I try to copy only the primary partition and resizing it
to the new bigger HD it works fine..but when I try to boot with the
new image as a primary master (after removing the smaller old vdi
file) - I get a blank black screen with a white static underscore at
the top
left (there's a better name to it I think.. just can't recall it
now..).
So - I did some reading.. these tutorials I mentioned had people also
having similar problems..
I tried: 1) botting with the original image as primary master and the
new bigger one as primary slave.. it works, but I'm not sure this is
ok and being a newbie I don't know whether that's a good thing to do
and what are the consequences.. also, what happens if I want to use
'clonevdi'? do I need to cloe both hard disks in such a case?
anyway, I saw some people mentioning
runing this configuration (master & slave as described) and then
running Roadkil's BootBuilder and following some additional steps -
http://www.majorgeeks.com/Roadkils_Boot_Builder_d4980.html
)
when trying to run this file I'm greeted with this message for running
the exe file: "Unable to find an interpreter for ./bootbuild.exe" or
when trying to run the zip (from terminal that is) I get: "invalid
file (bad magic number): Exec format error".. trying to run from
Nautilus did not cause this thing to work either (I did add execution
permissions since at first I seemed to have no executing permission on
this file and had different errors)
so - that did not do the work for me..
I realise what's happening is the new HD has no boot sector.. tried to
read about GRUB but was afraid to do some more damage as I really
don't feel I understand enough right now about Linux to do this,
unless you guys tell me I should (plus maybe some guildelines which
may help a bit..) anyway, I did read but wasn't sure it was the
solution I should study and follow..
I also tried to download Linux Mint 8 Helena CD from the website (when
downloading the VirtualRails vdi I didn't have the original Helena
Live CD along but I assume they used this one) and boot from there.. I
couldn't do anything useful booting from the
Compatibility mode.. it did not have a recovery mode.. so used the
regular mode.. where the farthest I reached was to see I had another
HD containing more GB (resized to 40GB.. so saw something containing
38GB).. but didn't know where to go from there and even how to access
it and how to repair the boot information there.. also tried to run in
this config GParted (saw the CD of Helena had it) - but for some
reason it did not run or do anything and anyway - I felt I was
improvising too much for my beginner level..)
So - this is where I'm at.. pretty stuck.
If anybody here can tell me how should this be done (if at all.. ),
I'd greatly (really!!) appreciate it..
Otherwise, if there's no way to resize the that Virtual Rails
partition to
a bigger one or if there's no other bigger version (perhaps from a DVD
installation and not a CD one with less things on it (like OpenJDK
instead of Sun Java for instance..) - I'll switch to a different
solution - and in which case (still I'd love to know and learn how the
problem I described above should be solved..) - I wonder if there are
any recommendations you could share..
I simoltaneously installed a fresh Ubuntu 10.04 LTS on my VB (with
100GB *grin*) thinking I should be doing the whole configuration and
stuff by myself now.. I'm planning to follow mainly the tutorials from
Rails Wiki - http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/getting-started/installation/linux
- and Ubuntu RoR page - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RubyOnRails
- hoping the knowledge I've gained so far will be sufficient to be
able to do this correctly.. even these two links do not completely
overlap and there some more alternate ways I found.. so I mainly feel
insecure here and very eager to be able to go back to study RoR and
write some code as well (while learning linux and using it)
So - hope this post was clear enough..
I'd greatly appreciate any answers.
Many thanks!
Best,
tino
J. Todd
5a884f...@r27g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, tinod...@gmail.com says...
> Hello group :)
>
> I originally posted this question in the Ruby on Rails talk group but
> thought I should go ahead and ask it here as well (anybody who sees
> this twice - sorry for multiple posts)
>
> I am very new to Linux (using it about a week or so..
>
> I'm using a Windows Vista 64bit host machine, on which I installed the
> latest VirtualBox (3.2.6).
Linux without the added layer?
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Hans-Peter Diettrich
>> I'm using a Windows Vista 64bit host machine, on which I installed the
>> latest VirtualBox (3.2.6).
> Why? Why not resize the Vista partition with GParted and install
> Linux without the added layer?
Caution: Resizing the Windows partition may kill recovery features :-(
Too bad if you got no installation media for Windows...
DoDi
Hans-Peter Diettrich
> I am very new to Linux (using it about a week or so..
I'm using Linux a bit longer, but still cannot give concrete advice :-(
> I'm using a Windows Vista 64bit host machine, on which I installed the
> latest VirtualBox (3.2.6).
> The problem occured when using a guest machine image based on Linux 8
> Helena.. being a newbie I thought this image could help me start
> without the need of installing everything from scratch, at least till
> I acquire enough knowledge to do so more confidently
Installing Linux can be fun, depending on the distro. I'd give it a try,
at least...
> I've been using Virtual Rails for about a week.. pretty quick
> and with no special effort I got 13GB out of the available fixed 15GB
> used (I realise a more experienced Linux user could maybe have done
> what I did with less.. but in my feeling 15 GB are
> pretty limiting and I don't wish to constantly keep worrying about the
> capacity of my guest machine..)
>
> Therefore - went ahead and read about resizing partitions..
You may be better of with a second virtual drive, that you mount for
your existing (or better a new user) home directory, or as a dedicated
~/Data directory. Even if Linux has only one root directory, you can
mount additional disks (partitions) as any folder. Simply think of
~/Data like of a Windows D:\ drive. The only requirement: the mountpoint
(folder) must be empty, or a new folder, otherwise you cannot mount
anything into it. Then move all important files from your home directory
to that new directory or user, and don't forget to clear the trash
folder. Then 15GB should be enough for the OS disk.
> Have found some really great tutorials out there and followed a
> procedure using GParted Live CD in order to copy the existing
> partition into a bigger one.
I never did so, moving bootable systems looks quite complicated to me :-(
> Anyway, when I try to copy only the primary partition and resizing it
> to the new bigger HD it works fine..but when I try to boot with the
> new image as a primary master (after removing the smaller old vdi
> file) - I get a blank black screen with a white static underscore at
> the top
> left (there's a better name to it I think.. just can't recall it
> now..).
That's why I ... ;-)
> I simoltaneously installed a fresh Ubuntu 10.04 LTS on my VB (with
> 100GB *grin*) thinking I should be doing the whole configuration and
> stuff by myself now..
Consider to use multiple disks or partitions the next time, for e.g.
/usr, /tmp and /home/yourname - have a look at the suggested mountpoints
in GParted. Extending such additional partitions should be easy, later,
because they do not affect booting from your dedicated OS drive.
DoDi
tino
> tino schrieb:
>
> > I am very new to Linux (using it about a week or so..
>
> I'm using Linux a bit longer, but still cannot give concrete advice :-(
>
> > I'm using a Windows Vista 64bit host machine, on which I installed the
> > latest VirtualBox (3.2.6).
> > The problem occured when using a guest machine image based on Linux 8
> > Helena.. being a newbie I thought this image could help me start
> > without the need of installing everything from scratch, at least till
> > I acquire enough knowledge to do so more confidently
>
> Installing Linux can be fun, depending on the distro. I'd give it a try,
> at least...
>
> > and with no special effort I got 13GB out of the available fixed 15GB
> > used (I realise a more experienced Linux user could maybe have done
> > what I did with less.. but in my feeling 15 GB are
> > pretty limiting and I don't wish to constantly keep worrying about the
> > capacity of my guest machine..)
>
> > Therefore - went ahead and read about resizing partitions..
>
> your existing (or better a new user) home directory, or as a dedicated
> ~/Data directory. Even if Linux has only one root directory, you can
> mount additional disks (partitions) as any folder. Simply think of
> ~/Data like of a Windows D:\ drive. The only requirement: the mountpoint
> (folder) must be empty, or a new folder, otherwise you cannot mount
> anything into it. Then move all important files from your home directory
> to that new directory or user, and don't forget to clear the trash
> folder. Then 15GB should be enough for the OS disk.
>
Thank you :)
Your offered solution sounds like something I'm goona try today..
Got it :)
Think will stick to your recommendation and not try to resize bootable
partitions, at least till I acquire sufficient knowledge + really have
to :)
I'll look into mountpoints then and how to add another partition
correctly (at the moment of writing before studying what you suggested
I'm still not sure whether the additional partition should be
formatted as "primary" or "extended" partition.. my guess it can be
primary.. but as I wrote, will read more before writing any further
guesses which may be wrong..)
> > Have found some really great tutorials out there and followed a
> > procedure using GParted Live CD in order to copy the existing
> > partition into a bigger one.
>
> I never did so, moving bootable systems looks quite complicated to me :-(
>
> > Anyway, when I try to copy only the primary partition and resizing it
> > to the new bigger HD it works fine..but when I try to boot with the
> > new image as a primary master (after removing the smaller old vdi
> > file) - I get a blank black screen with a white static underscore at
> > the top
> > left (there's a better name to it I think.. just can't recall it
> > now..).
>
> That's why I ... ;-)
>
> > I simoltaneously installed a fresh Ubuntu 10.04 LTS on my VB (with
> > 100GB *grin*) thinking I should be doing the whole configuration and
> > stuff by myself now..
>
> Consider to use multiple disks or partitions the next time, for e.g.
> /usr, /tmp and /home/yourname - have a look at the suggested mountpoints
> in GParted. Extending such additional partitions should be easy, later,
> because they do not affect booting from your dedicated OS drive.
>
> DoDi
Thanks again :)
tino
tino
> In article <597668e4-079a-4b05-a228-
> 5a884f14b...@r27g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, tinodev...@gmail.com says...> Hello group :)
>
> > I originally posted this question in the Ruby onRailstalk group but
> > thought I should go ahead and ask it here as well (anybody who sees
> > this twice - sorry for multiple posts)
>
> > I am very new to Linux (using it about a week or so..
>
> > I'm using a Windows Vista 64bit host machine, on which I installed the
> > latest VirtualBox (3.2.6).
>
> Why? Why not resize the Vista partition with GParted and install
> Linux without the added layer?
>
I understand :)
Think there are a few more good options I could follow... which I'll
certainly try next time I buy / format a whole computer.. will
probably happen sooner than later, but for the time being - I was
wondering whether someone has a suggestion concerning the situation I
described in my original post :)
thanks,
tino
tino
> On Jul 16, 5:38 pm, J. Todd <jet...@bc-mung-supernet.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article <597668e4-079a-4b05-a228-
> > 5a884f14b...@r27g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, tinodev...@gmail.com says...> Hello group :)
>
> > > I originally posted this question in the Ruby onRailstalk group but
> > > thought I should go ahead and ask it here as well (anybody who sees
> > > this twice - sorry for multiple posts)
>
> > > I am very new to Linux (using it about a week or so..
>
> > > I'm using a Windows Vista 64bit host machine, on which I installed the
> > > latest VirtualBox (3.2.6).
>
> > Why? Why not resize the Vista partition with GParted and install
> > Linux without the added layer?
>
> > --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: n...@netfront.net ---
>
Ahh.. didn't mention..
this one was @ J.Todd:
tino
sorry (blush).. did a bit of a mess here with my replies and quoted
text..
anyway, want to make sure I say this -
@ DoDi - thank you for your comments and suggestions.
best,
tino
Aragorn
identifying as Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote...
> tino schrieb:
>
>> I am very new to Linux (using it about a week or so..
>
>> [...]
>> I'm using a Windows Vista 64bit host machine, on which I installed
>> the latest VirtualBox (3.2.6).
>> The problem occured when using a guest machine image based on Linux 8
>> Helena.. being a newbie I thought this image could help me start
>> without the need of installing everything from scratch, at least till
>> I acquire enough knowledge to do so more confidently
>
> Installing Linux can be fun, depending on the distro. I'd give it a
> try, at least...
>> I've been using Virtual Rails for about a week.. pretty quick
>> and with no special effort I got 13GB out of the available fixed 15GB
>> used (I realise a more experienced Linux user could maybe have done
>> what I did with less.. but in my feeling 15 GB are pretty limiting
>> and I don't wish to constantly keep worrying about the capacity of my
>> guest machine..)
>>
>> Therefore - went ahead and read about resizing partitions..
>
> You may be better of with a second virtual drive, that you mount for
> your existing (or better a new user) home directory, or as a dedicated
> ~/Data directory. Even if Linux has only one root directory, you can
> mount additional disks (partitions) as any folder.
"Folders" are GUI constructs, and an abstraction layer at that.
A "folder" may represent a directory in a filesystem, but it may also
represent a _file_ in the on-disk filesystem, or perhaps none of the
aforementioned. Therefore, when talking of a filesystem - and
especially so in a UNIX context - it is recommended to use the
word "directory" instead.
That said, you can /technically/ mount any partition or other storage
volume on any directory, this is true, but you cannot go ahead and do
that for every directory in a GNU/Linux system, because that would
render the system unbootable.
Directories such as "/bin", "/lib", "/etc" and "/sbin" *must* have their
contents physically residing on the root filesystem - i.e. the
filesystem which holds the root directory - because the contents of
these directories are needed at boot time, before all other filesystems
are mounted.
"/boot" is an exception in this regard because it is needed at machine
boot time, but it is not needed by the kernel. It only needs to be
accessed by the bootloader in order to /load/ the kernel image (and
initrd, if required) into memory.
In the LILO bootloader, the location of the second-stage bootloader is
hardcoded via logical block offsets in the primary stage of the
bootloader - i.e. the part that resides in the master boot record, or
if so desired, in the active/bootable partition's boot sector, whatever
that partition may be. (Note: GNU/Linux does not require any partition
being marked "bootable" except in this scenario, in which case it is
rather a requirement of the bootloader than of the operating system
itself.) The second stage of LILO is typically located in "/boot" as
the file "/boot/boot.map" or something of that nature, and has in it
the hardcode logical block offsets to where the kernel images and
initrds are.
In the event of GRUB, things are slightly different, but not too much.
GRUB also has a first stage loader, which is similar to the one used by
LILO and has the same requirements. This first stage loader will then
load an intermediary GRUB stage (1.5), which contains a real mode
filesystem driver for the filesystem "/boot" resides on -
whether "/boot" is separate from the root filesystem or not - and this
in turn will load the stage 2 part of GRUB. This stage 2 can then, via
its filesystem driver be able to read (in realtime) the contents
of "/boot/grub/menu.lst" - or "/boot/grub/grub.conf", depending on the
distro and GRUB version - and can load the selected kernel and initrd
via the real mode filesystem access.
As soon as the kernel is loaded in memory, the kernel's bootstrapping
code - provided we are talking of the x86 architecture and with a
legacy BIOS version, of course - will set up the pagetables and
descriptor tables, save the boot parameters to a location in memory
accessable from within protected mode, and will then switch the boot
processor to protected mode and decompress the kernel. As of that
moment, the real operating system kernel takes over and "/boot" is no
longer needed. Driver modules are loaded either from within the in the
meantime also decompressed initrd or if applicable, directly from
the "/lib" directory on the root filesystem, once the root filesystem
has been checked and mounted.
Root-level directories which *may* have their contents residing on other
filesystems - which themselves could also reside on other hard disks or
even on other computers in the network - are...
- /boot
- /home
- /opt
- /root (see [1])
- /srv (see [2])
- /tmp (see [3])
- /usr
- /var
[1] Technically possible, but not advised as it is the home of the root
user and needs to be accessible when the system is booted up in
single-user maintenance mode, in which case no other filesystems
will be mounted. When the system is brought down to single-user
maintenance mode - i.e. runlevel 1 - from a previously working
state without having been rebooted, this does not apply, as all
mounted filesystems will still be mounted at that point.
[2] Although specified in the latest version of the FHS (Filesystem
Hierarchy Standard) and created at installation time in a number of
GNU/Linux distributions, there are just as many distributions that
do not create it, and those that do leave it empty. It is intended
to house shared data which would otherwise be put under "/var",
e.g. "/var/www", "/var/ftp" and other similar directories.
[3] "/tmp" should for good measure be kept on either a separate
partition or on a tmpfs - i.e. a RAM-based and swappable filesystem
of dynamic size. Nothing residing in "/tmp" should be required to
survive a reboot and thus the use of a tmpfs is quite feasible.
The only possible objection to that could be that in most modern
distributions aimed at desktop usage, "~/tmp" - i.e. the "./tmp"
directory in each user's home directory - is typically symlinked
to "/tmp", and this could thus pose serious capacity demands on
"/tmp" which way exceed the available RAM. Without this
requirement - i.e. if the user's own "./tmp" directories are not
symlinked to "/tmp" - the needed size for "/tmp" should not be
bigger than about 50 to 100 MB per user account. In this case
however, every user should be responsible for cleaning out their
local "./tmp" directories on a regular basis if the processes that
create entries there do not clean up after themselves. The "/tmp"
directory itself should also have the sticky bit set and be world-
writable - i.e. 1777 permissions, or otherwise put "trwxrwxrwx" -
so that users can create files there but not delete files created
by other users.
Directories which should *never* be split off from the root directory
are...
- /bin
- /dev (see [4]
- /etc
- /lib (see [5])
- /media (see [6])
- /mnt (see [6])
- /proc (see [7])
- /sbin
- /sys (see [7]
[4] The "/dev" filesystem is an abstraction layer to the underlying
hardware, represented via so-called device special files. In
modern GNU/Linux distributions with a 2.6.x kernel, the contents
of "/dev" no longer reside on the physical disk but are instead
created at boot time on a tmpfs - see the description of a tmpfs
in the comments about "/tmp" higher up - by the "udev" system.
"udev" is a system which creates and deletes device special files
on the fly as hardware is being plugged in or removed from the
system, based upon the information the kernel exports via "/sys"
about the detected hardware.
[5] On x86-64 systems with "multilib" - this is enabled in most x86-64
distributions by default, but I was told that Slackware leaves it
up to the user to decide on whether to install "multilib" or not -
"/lib" will typically be a symbolic link to "/lib64", and there
will then also be a "/lib32" directory. Neither of these two
should be split off.
[6] Technically, "/mnt" and "/media" can be split off, and it might
actually not even be such a bad idea to do so, but at the same time
it could also make things too complicated for an absolute newbie.
"/mnt" is a mountpoint for volumes which are normally not part of
the system, and "/media" is the parent directory for directories
which each form a mountpoint for removable storage media.
[7] The contents of "/proc" and "/sys" do not live on the physical disk
partition. They are virtual filesystems, and their contents are
only created as a filesystem structure when something is attempting
to read from or write to them. They are abstractions of the kernel
represented to the user as a filesystem structure.
Although most newbies opt to install everything in a single root
partition, it is generally advised to have at least "/home" be a
separate filesystem.
> Simply think of ~/Data like of a Windows D:\ drive. The only
> requirement: the mountpoint (folder) must be empty, or a new folder,
> otherwise you cannot mount anything into it.
This is not correct. Any directory can serve as a mountpoint, but when
mounting a filesystem to a directory, then the contents of that
directory - in the event that it is not empty - will be unavailable for
as long as the directory serves as a mountpoint.
In the event of people who like testing different distributions on the
same system, the actual location where the user keeps their own work
files - in most distributions, this will be "~/Documents" and similar
directories, e.g. "~/Downloads" - can be put on a separate filesystem,
while the actual home directory contains symlinks to that filesystem,
or said filesystem being mounted to the pertaining directories under
the user's home directory. This way, the actual home directory can
contain the distribution-specific "dot files", which may differ per
distribution and even create conflicts.
Although every GNU/Linux sysadmin can and may install their systems in
whatever ways they want, it is still advised not to create any extra
root-level directories, since there already are enough directories to
cover for any kind of data storage. It is generally also advised to
keep static and dynamic data separated, as well as shareable and
non-shareable data.
More information with regard to what's shareable and what not can be
found here...
http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html
> Then move all important files from your home directory to that new
> directory or user, and don't forget to clear the trash folder. Then
> 15GB should be enough for the OS disk.
>
>
>> Have found some really great tutorials out there and followed a
>> procedure using GParted Live CD in order to copy the existing
>> partition into a bigger one.
>
> I never did so, moving bootable systems looks quite complicated to me
> :-(
>
>> Anyway, when I try to copy only the primary partition and resizing it
>> to the new bigger HD it works fine..but when I try to boot with the
>> new image as a primary master (after removing the smaller old vdi
>> file) - I get a blank black screen with a white static underscore at
>> the top left (there's a better name to it I think.. just can't recall
>> it now..).
It is called "a cursor". :p
> That's why I ... ;-)
>
>
>> I simoltaneously installed a fresh Ubuntu 10.04 LTS on my VB (with
>> 100GB *grin*) thinking I should be doing the whole configuration and
>> stuff by myself now..
>
> Consider to use multiple disks or partitions the next time, for e.g.
> /usr, /tmp and /home/yourname [...
Better would be to keep the entire "/home" population on another
partition, not just "~" - i.e. the actual user's home directory.
> ...] - have a look at the suggested mountpoints in GParted. Extending
> such additional partitions should be easy, later, because they do not
> affect booting from your dedicated OS drive.
Many distributions default to using logical volumes instead of
partitions. However, personally I do not recommend this to any newbie
until they've sufficiently familiarized themselves with the system.
Logical volumes offer a handy way to circumvent the "16 partitions per
disk" limitation imposed by the Linux SCSI midlayer and applicable to
all SAS, SCSI, SATA, Firewire and USB disks, and since still fairly
recently, PATA/IDE disks as well - the latter because Linux now
defaults to using the "libata" drivers for PATA/IDE disks as well; with
the old driver code, a PATA/IDE disk could hold up to 63 partitions.
(Note: you can still create more than 16 partitions, but Linux won't be
able to use all of them.)
Another advantage of logical volumes is that they can be more easily
resized if need be. However, logical volume management is an
abstraction layer above the physical partitioning layout and requires
that the kernel has the required drivers - either built-in statically
or built as loadable modules - and that the required tools are
installed to scan the disks and create the proper device special files
via "udev". LVM can also be used to create volumes that span multiple
disks, similar to the JBOD functionality in Linux's software RAID.
For newbies, I recommend using regular partitions instead, though.
--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)
Hans-Peter Diettrich
> sorry (blush).. did a bit of a mess here with my replies and quoted
> text..
Yes, strip down the quoted text to the essential parts.
> anyway, want to make sure I say this -
> @ DoDi - thank you for your comments and suggestions.
Feeling happy :-)
DoDi
tino
> On Saturday 17 July 2010 01:44 in comp.os.linux.setup, somebody
> identifying as Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote...
>
>
>
> > tino schrieb:
>
> >> I am very new to Linux (using it about a week or so..
>
> >> [...]
> >> I'm using a Windows Vista 64bit host machine, on which I installed
> >> the latest VirtualBox (3.2.6).
> >> The problem occured when using a guest machine image based on Linux 8
> >> Helena.. being a newbie I thought this image could help me start
> >> without the need of installing everything from scratch, at least till
> >> I acquire enough knowledge to do so more confidently
>
> > Installing Linux can be fun, depending on the distro. I'd give it a
> > try, at least...
> >> and with no special effort I got 13GB out of the available fixed 15GB
> >> used (I realise a more experienced Linux user could maybe have done
> >> what I did with less.. but in my feeling 15 GB are pretty limiting
> >> and I don't wish to constantly keep worrying about the capacity of my
> >> guest machine..)
>
> >> Therefore - went ahead and read about resizing partitions..
>
> only created as a filesystem structure when something is attempting
> to read from or write to them. They are abstractions of the kernel
> represented to the user as a filesystem structure.
>
> Although most newbies opt to install everything in a single root
> partition, it is generally advised to have at least "/home" be a
> separate filesystem.
>
> > Simply think of ~/Data like of a Windows D:\ drive. The only
> > requirement: the mountpoint (folder) must be empty, or a new folder,
> > otherwise you cannot mount anything into it.
>
> This is not correct. Any directory can serve as a mountpoint, but when
> mounting a filesystem to a directory, then the contents of that
> directory - in the event that it is not empty - will be unavailable for
> as long as the directory serves as a mountpoint.
>
> In the event of people who like testing different distributions on the
> same system, the actual location where the user keeps their own work
>
> read more »
@Aragorn:
Thank you for taking the time to reply with such a detailed
explanation.
I read your answer a few times and still feel each time I reread you
answer, there's additional information I pick up from your lines.
Indeed, there's a lot to learn and understand :)
I am completely new here yet did notice a few of your other answers
here which I learned from as well, even if not always with full
understanding - appreciate it a lot.
best,
tino
Aragorn
identifying as tino wrote...
> On Jul 17, 2:00 pm, Aragorn <arag...@chatfactory.invalid> wrote:
>
>> [a whole lot of stuff about partitions and directories]
>
> @Aragorn:
>
> Thank you for taking the time to reply with such a detailed
> explanation.
Oh, my pleasure. ;-) I like explaining things into detail. :-)
> I read your answer a few times and still feel each time I reread you
> answer, there's additional information I pick up from your lines.
> Indeed, there's a lot to learn and understand :)
Well, it all begins with the understanding where GNU/Linux comes from.
Even though it doesn't use a single line of pre-existing code from any
of the proprietary UNIX systems, it *is* a UNIX-family operating
system, and the original AT&T Unix was developed on a mini-computer,
which is a multiuser hardware architecture. And thus, UNIX-family
operating systems are multiuser systems.
Some say that the learning curve to GNU/Linux is pretty steep, but the
truth is that it's only this steep for people who have been conditioned
to expect the behavior of Microsoft Windows, and given that Windows
does not present a computer to the user for what it really is - Windows
is essentially still a single-user operating system with bolted-on
security features - and that it is essentially only a successor to
MS-DOS, people who have been using Windows for a long time without any
knowledge or understanding of other operating systems or operating
system technology - and Windows shields the user from obtaining that
knowledge via the use of Windows itself - will suddenly feel like
they're being overwhelmed by the technical aspects of GNU/Linux.
Just give it some time, and you'll grow to love it soon enough. ;-)
> I am completely new here yet did notice a few of your other answers
> here which I learned from as well, even if not always with full
> understanding - appreciate it a lot.
Well, let me give you some more advice then, my friend... First of all,
start by not using Google Groups anymore to post to Usenet. Although
Google tries very hard to obscure this, Usenet is *not* a part of
Google and never has been. Google only *archives* Usenet posts and
offers a (very poor) web-based interface for posting to Usenet.
What you need to do, first and foremost, is use a real newsreader and a
real news service. Several ISPs offer a newsserver to their customers,
but more and more are beginning to drop that service because of the
fact that Usenet is becoming less popular and that it is also being
abused for the distribution of copyrighted binary material. Yet, there
are many free newsservers available for posting to text-only groups.
Personally I recommend Eternal September. They do have their occasional
glitches, but in overall they're excellent. Just point your favorite
browser here...
http://www.eternal-september.org
... and register for an account. It's free of charge. They will send
you an e-mail with the login and password to use, and then all you have
to do is use a real newsreader. On GNU/Linux, you can use both GUI
variants - e.g. KNode, Pan - and non-GUI variants - e.g. slrn. There's
also Mozilla Thunderbird, which is an e-mail client but which doubles
as a newsreader. (MS-Outlook Express also does that, from what I've
seen in the headers of some posts - I think it's called Windows Mail
now, but I'm not sure; I don't do Windows. ;-))
Then, my advice to you would be that when you see an interesting thread,
mark the thread as one "to be watched" - i.e. you assign a higher score
to it in your newsreader - and follow the discussions, and then copy
the interesting posts in the thread to a dedicated folder in your
newsreader - note: I'm talking of a newsreader folder, not a directory
on your hard disk. ;-)
Sometimes it's good to monitor a thread for a while and not save the
posts right away, because someone might be wrong and another person is
then bound to correct him on that. It's the correct information that
you want to save, not the false claims, of course. ;-)
Apart from the functionality, there are also other reasons as to why you
would want to use a real newsreader instead of Google Groups. For
starters, many regular posters filter out posts sent via Google Groups
because of the general cluelessness exhibited by many Google Groups
posters, who are apparently too lazy to look for information on the web
using Google as a search engine. Trolls and spammers also frequently
make use of Google Groups, so filtering out Google Groups tends to keep
the noise-to-signal ratio a little lower.
And thus, as a consequence, if you're posting via Google Groups,
considering that many regulars filter that out, you decrease your
chances of getting useful replies from knowledgeable posters. I am
giving you good advice, my friend: ditch Google Groups and get a real
newsreader and newsserver! ;-)
You may also want to bookmark the following link, albeit that I have to
admit that most of the information here is not exactly up-to-date...:
And then there's also this one...
http://www.linuxnewbieguide.org
There are loads more websites like these, some better than others.
Just remember: give the penguin some affection and you'll have a pet for
life. :-)
tino
> On Sunday 18 July 2010 10:21 in comp.os.linux.setup, somebody
>
> identifying as tino wrote...
> > On Jul 17, 2:00 pm, Aragorn <arag...@chatfactory.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> [a whole lot of stuff about partitions and directories]
>
> > @Aragorn:
>
> > Thank you for taking the time to reply with such a detailed
> > explanation.
>
> Oh, my pleasure. ;-) I like explaining things into detail. :-)
>
I must say thank you again..
I find learning from people this way (while of course doing my own
share of learning and trying out things) is beautiful and greatly
appreciated.
> > I read your answer a few times and still feel each time I reread you
> > answer, there's additional information I pick up from your lines.
> > Indeed, there's a lot to learn and understand :)
>
> Well, it all begins with the understanding where GNU/Linux comes from.
> Even though it doesn't use a single line of pre-existing code from any
> of the proprietary UNIX systems, it *is* a UNIX-family operating
> system, and the original AT&T Unix was developed on a mini-computer,
> which is a multiuser hardware architecture. And thus, UNIX-family
> operating systems are multiuser systems.
>
> Some say that the learning curve to GNU/Linux is pretty steep, but the
> truth is that it's only this steep for people who have been conditioned
> to expect the behavior of Microsoft Windows, and given that Windows
> does not present a computer to the user for what it really is - Windows
> is essentially still a single-user operating system with bolted-on
> security features - and that it is essentially only a successor to
> MS-DOS, people who have been using Windows for a long time without any
> knowledge or understanding of other operating systems or operating
> system technology - and Windows shields the user from obtaining that
> knowledge via the use of Windows itself - will suddenly feel like
> they're being overwhelmed by the technical aspects of GNU/Linux.
>
> Just give it some time, and you'll grow to love it soon enough. ;-)
Don't worry, I'm here to stay :)
Did just that after reading your message :)
Haven't played with it yet, but - soon enough I will..
> Then, my advice to you would be that when you see an interesting thread,
> mark the thread as one "to be watched" - i.e. you assign a higher score
> to it in your newsreader - and follow the discussions, and then copy
> the interesting posts in the thread to a dedicated folder in your
> newsreader - note: I'm talking of a newsreader folder, not a directory
> on your hard disk. ;-)
this one remind me of my silly 'cursor' remark..
I knew it was a cursor, just forgot the word for it in English..
>
> Sometimes it's good to monitor a thread for a while and not save the
> posts right away, because someone might be wrong and another person is
> then bound to correct him on that. It's the correct information that
> you want to save, not the false claims, of course. ;-)
>
> Apart from the functionality, there are also other reasons as to why you
> would want to use a real newsreader instead of Google Groups. For
> starters, many regular posters filter out posts sent via Google Groups
> because of the general cluelessness exhibited by many Google Groups
> posters, who are apparently too lazy to look for information on the web
> using Google as a search engine. Trolls and spammers also frequently
> make use of Google Groups, so filtering out Google Groups tends to keep
> the noise-to-signal ratio a little lower.
>
> And thus, as a consequence, if you're posting via Google Groups,
> considering that many regulars filter that out, you decrease your
> chances of getting useful replies from knowledgeable posters. I am
> giving you good advice, my friend: ditch Google Groups and get a real
> newsreader and newsserver! ;-)
>
> You may also want to bookmark the following link, albeit that I have to
> admit that most of the information here is not exactly up-to-date...:
>
> http://www.tldp.org
>
> And then there's also this one...
>
> http://www.linuxnewbieguide.org
>
Bookmarked these two under "Aragorn's Refs".. lol
> There are loads more websites like these, some better than others.
>
> Just remember: give the penguin some affection and you'll have a pet for
> life. :-)
>
> --
> *Aragorn*
> (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)
appreciate it.
tino
Adornley
> Well, let me give you some more advice then, my friend... First of all,
> start by not using Google Groups anymore to post to Usenet. Although
> Google tries very hard to obscure this, Usenet is *not* a part of
> Google and never has been. Google only *archives* Usenet posts and
> offers a (very poor) web-based interface for posting to Usenet.
[hmm.. asking under the title of "very new" to linux]
have been wondering - how can you tell whether one has posted using
Google Groups rather than Usenet? or vice versa?
sorry if it's a trivial one..
thanks :)
A.
Aragorn
identifying as Adornley wrote...
> On 07/18/2010 01:18 PM, Aragorn wrote:
>
> > Well, let me give you some more advice then, my friend... First of
> > all, start by not using Google Groups anymore to post to Usenet.
> > Although Google tries very hard to obscure this, Usenet is *not* a
> > part of Google and never has been. Google only *archives* Usenet
> > posts and offers a (very poor) web-based interface for posting to
> > Usenet.
>
> [hmm.. asking under the title of "very new" to linux]
>
> have been wondering - how can you tell whether one has posted using
> Google Groups rather than Usenet? or vice versa?
>
> sorry if it's a trivial one..
>
> thanks :)
With a real newsreader, you will be able to see all the headers of each
post, when available. People who post from Google Groups have
their "User Agent" listed as "G2".
P.S.: You may also want to read up on this one...:
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm#quote
Use interleaved replying - i.e. no replying at the top or at the bottom
of the post, but in between the paragraphs you wish to comment on -
along with proper attributions to your quoting, and snip the irrelevant
stuff.
It is also a good idea to put your name in a signature - which is
separated from the message body by "-- ", i.e. "dash dash space" - and
it is also advised not to include the message of the previous poster
when you decide to reply. ;-)
Most newsreaders allow you to specify a signature, either set up in the
section for your identity, or as a file - typically "~/.sig" or
something of that nature. ;-)
Eric Pozharski
*SKIP*
>
> With a real newsreader, you will be able to see all the headers of each
> post, when available. People who post from Google Groups have
> their "User Agent" listed as "G2".
>
It should be noted that 'Message-ID:' header is cheap (instead of
'User-Agent:'). Hence those who care killfile with
Message-ID: <.*\.googlegroups\.com>
*CUT*
--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom
Aragorn
identifying as Eric Pozharski wrote...
> with <i1vc7b$is$4...@news.eternal-september.org> Aragorn wrote:
>
>> With a real newsreader, you will be able to see all the headers of
>> each post, when available. People who post from Google Groups have
>> their "User Agent" listed as "G2".
>
> It should be noted that 'Message-ID:' header is cheap (instead of
> 'User-Agent:'). Hence those who care killfile with
>
> Message-ID: <.*\.googlegroups\.com>
True, but I was only giving one example. Once the poster has
familiarized himself with a proper newsreader, they would be able to
see all the headers, and then there will of course be more clues, as
e.g. the Message-ID. ;-)
Adornley
> With a real newsreader, you will be able to see all the headers of each
> post, when available. People who post from Google Groups have
> their "User Agent" listed as "G2".
>
> P.S.: You may also want to read up on this one...:
>
> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm#quote
>
Hello again :)
Hesitated before replying.. went through the link, and am very thankful
for it, just wanted to make sure I was following the "rules"..
wasn't aware of the fact there are these good conventions to follow
though now that I think about it - it was stupid to think otherwise..
Anyway, at no point (my last post here was my first ever on Usenet ;) )
I meant to offend anybody :).. even now I'm not sure I did this right..
hopefully I did and if not - my apologies + any corrections will be very
appreciated.. will study how this should be done while reading and
following threads.
(one thing I'm not sure about, though, is I actually write here after
your quote (though originally there was more afterwards, which I
trimmed) - is this ok?)
also - I wanted to begin my message with this yet it replies to the link
you suggested and only in the next paragraph I re-ask about the
beginning of your quoted text, but did not want to break your order of
writing things down.. I'm not sure it's a "polite" or acceptable thing
to do or a no-no.. also, I strayed from the original thread's subject,
which seems unfair as well - so I apologise and will definitely not
repeat such a bad habit again..
Anyway, wanted to ask also about what you meant by 'a real newsreader'..
I started reading newsgroups by using Thunderbird and couldn't find the
'G2' text when reading posts of Google Groups.. so was wondering.. but I
guess I'll find the answer sooner or later as I spend some more time here :)
Thanks! :)
--
Adornley
Doug Freyburger
>
> have been wondering - how can you tell whether one has posted using
> Google Groups rather than Usenet? or vice versa?
If I read it on any other NSP than google then they posted it using
UseNet. Google does exchange NNTP with other NSPs so it is validly just
other UseNet service. They just have a web display option with no
filtering and poor quoting and display behavior. But that's not what
you intended to ask. You intended to ask how the tell if a post
orginated on google.
It's listed several ways in the headers.
I have my reader set to display the Organization line. Google doesn't
let posters set it that i've found in their interface so it is always -
Organization: http://groups.google.com
The strings google.com and googlegroups.com appear in several other
lines. The most common to filter on is the Message-ID line.
Aragorn
identifying as Adornley wrote...
> On 07/18/2010 08:04 PM, Aragorn wrote:
>
>> With a real newsreader, you will be able to see all the headers of
>> each post, when available. People who post from Google Groups have
>> their "User Agent" listed as "G2".
>>
>> P.S.: You may also want to read up on this one...:
>>
>> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm#quote
>
> Hello again :)
> Hesitated before replying.. went through the link, and am very
> thankful for it, just wanted to make sure I was following the
> "rules".. wasn't aware of the fact there are these good conventions to
> follow though now that I think about it - it was stupid to think
> otherwise.. Anyway, at no point (my last post here was my first ever
> on Usenet ;) ) I meant to offend anybody :).. even now I'm not sure I
> did this right.. hopefully I did and if not - my apologies + any
> corrections will be very appreciated.. will study how this should be
> done while reading and following threads.
I did not mean to imply that you were doing something wrong. If I came
across as having made such an innuendo, then I apologize. I was merely
trying to give you somewhat of a heads-up, since you appear to be new
here. Something in the spirit of showing you the caveats before you
trip over them. ;-)
> (one thing I'm not sure about, though, is I actually write here after
> your quote (though originally there was more afterwards, which I
> trimmed) - is this ok?)
Yes, if that which you trimmed was not important for the discussion,
i.e. you had nothing to add to or ask about it, and so it became
irrelevant. ;-)
> also - I wanted to begin my message with this yet it replies to the
> link you suggested and only in the next paragraph I re-ask about the
> beginning of your quoted text, but did not want to break your order of
> writing things down..
Breaking up a sentence is allowed, provided that you use "[..."
and "...]" to denote that the quoted part was interrupted for a comment
of your own. Not everyone does this, though, and it's also
only "needed" when you cut up a sentence. If you cut up a paragraph
between the period that ended the previous sentence and the beginning
of the next one, then you don't need to do that. ;-)
> I'm not sure it's a "polite" or acceptable thing to do or a no-no..
> also, I strayed from the original thread's subject, which seems unfair
> as well - so I apologise and will definitely not repeat such a bad
> habit again..
Most threads will stray from the original subject after two or three
levels down. :p
> Anyway, wanted to ask also about what you meant by 'a real
> newsreader'..
Any newsreader program, e.g. KNode, Thunderbird, Pan, slrn, et al.
> I started reading newsgroups by using Thunderbird and couldn't find
> the 'G2' text when reading posts of Google Groups.. so was wondering..
> but I guess I'll find the answer sooner or later as I spend some more
> time here :)
Those are headers. They do not appear in the message body, but they
should be visible in a separate part of the message. It is possible
that you may have to select "View all headers" or something of that
sort in the menu. I've never used Thunderbird myself, so I don't
really know.
In KNode, you can customize which headers you want to display and which
ones to hide. There are many headers, so you may not want to see all
of them every time.
An example of what I am currently seeing of your article is this...
From:Adornley <Ador...@gmail.com> (A noiseless patient Spider)
Date:Monday 19 July 2010 16:12:04
Groups:comp.os.linux.setup
User-Agent:Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.4)
Gecko/20100608 Thunderbird/3.1
Message-ID:<i21mfn$a7b$1...@news.eternal-september.org>
There are many more headers, but not every post has the same amount of
headers, and as I wrote, not all of them are visible to me at all
time - albeit that in KNode, I can call them up all whenever I want to.
For Google Groups posters, "User-Agent" will show "G2" and
the "Message-ID" will have the string "groups.google.com" in it.
Hope this helps. ;-)
Adornley
> On Monday 19 July 2010 16:12 in comp.os.linux.setup, somebody
> identifying as Adornley wrote...
>
>> Anyway, at no point (my last post here was my first ever
>> on Usenet ;) ) I meant to offend anybody :).. even now I'm not sure I
>> did this right.. hopefully I did and if not - my apologies + any
>> corrections will be very appreciated.. will study how this should be
>> done while reading and following threads.
>
> I did not mean to imply that you were doing something wrong. If I came
> across as having made such an innuendo, then I apologize. I was merely
> trying to give you somewhat of a heads-up, since you appear to be new
> here. Something in the spirit of showing you the caveats before you
> trip over them. ;-)
>
;)
I did not have the feeling reading your answers I was offending anybody,
on the contrary.. really appreciate correcting me at my first post here
and being patient rather than angry, plus supplying me with valuable
information I can learn from as well..
this is why it was even more important to me to show my appreciation
also by quoting correctly, and thus apologised when discovered I wasn't
being accurate in my replies.. :)
>
>> I'm not sure it's a "polite" or acceptable thing to do or a no-no..
>> also, I strayed from the original thread's subject, which seems unfair
>> as well - so I apologise and will definitely not repeat such a bad
>> habit again..
>
> Most threads will stray from the original subject after two or three
> levels down. :p
>
:)
makes me feel better.. still I get the impression users who look for
answers in the newsgroups and find a thread regarding one subject would
rather find posts related to it inside.. or otherwise - they may not
find what they're looking for because the information is under a
different thread's subject (or, it may be less convenient this way..) -
so I'll try not to do this often
>
> Any newsreader program, e.g. KNode, Thunderbird, Pan, slrn, et al.
>
>> I started reading newsgroups by using Thunderbird and couldn't find
>> the 'G2' text when reading posts of Google Groups.. so was wondering..
>> but I guess I'll find the answer sooner or later as I spend some more
>> time here :)
>
> Those are headers. They do not appear in the message body, but they
> should be visible in a separate part of the message. It is possible
> that you may have to select "View all headers" or something of that
> sort in the menu. I've never used Thunderbird myself, so I don't
> really know.
>
Feeling silly it took me a while to find it..
I found the headers when viewing a message's source (in the right-click
menu), but more convenient was to choose from Thunderbird's menu:
View -> Headers -> All (rather than the default 'Normal' option),
so they're available whenever I view a message..
>
> Hope this helps. ;-)
>
A lot :) and very much appreciated..
--
Adornley