firefox chokes
Jim Strathmeyer
Firefox literally chokes the system. It's CPU usage goes to 99.5% and
other applications stop responding. This usally happens when I have a
few tabs open, but it appears to happen often. I imagine it's because of
the amounts of ads (flash, java, javascript) on pages, could this be KDE's
fault?
I just want a smooth, fast web surfing experience!
--
Jim Strathmeyer
CWO4 Dave Mann
If you have the various FF extensions intalled, try turning them off one
at a time one of them might be "stuck" Also, I noticed that some sites
simply will not respond if JS is turned off. FF appeared to freeze but
when I clicked on the allow JS icon on the bottom right the site loaded.
HTH,
Dave
Rich Gibbs
I have seen this happen occasionally with sites that make heavy use of
Flash. It doesn't happen with all Flash sites, just some of them. My
suspicion is that perhaps the common thread is the use of some Flash
feature that exercises either a bug in the Flash plugin, or some
interaction bug with Firefox itself.
In any case, it's worth trying things without the Flash plugin. You can
disable it easily by shutting down Firefox, renaming two files in the
'plugins' subdirectory of your Firefox install directory, and then
restarting Firefox. The files are 'flashplayer.xpt' and
'libflashplayer.so'. In the following example, I've inserted a '-'
(hyphen) into the names:
rgibbs@rich02:/usr/local/bin/firefox-1.0.7/plugins$ ls -la
total 2084
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Sep 24 15:46 .
drwxr-xr-x 11 root root 4096 Sep 24 15:42 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 856 Sep 24 15:45 flashplayer.-xpt
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2096844 Sep 24 15:44 libflashplayer.-so
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 18840 Sep 24 15:44 libnullplugin.so
[additional plugins snipped]
I found that disabling Flash eliminated "freeze-ups" and also most
browser crashes.
--
Rich Gibbs
ric...@gmail.com
"You can observe a lot by watching." -- Yogi Berra
Yves Bellefeuille
> In any case, it's worth trying things without the Flash plugin.
I use an extension called Flashblock that lets me choose whether to see
Flash or not.
--
Yves Bellefeuille <y...@storm.ca>
"mi dau're g'enas vin, sed kiun alian mi g'enu?" -- Renato Corsetti
"America is less a beacon of hope than a dangerous force to be
countered." -- US State Department
John-Paul Stewart
I've experienced two different things that might be what you're describing.
1) Firefox will appear to freeze if I've got many sites open in many
windows (I don't use tabs) if one of them is slow in responding.
Downloading content from other sites for the other windows appears to
halt while it tries to make contact with the slow server. For example,
if one site is slow, and I'm reading something else on another site and
click a link in that window, nothing will happen in that second window
until the first one either completes or fails due to a timeout.
2) Firefox will truly freeze (for no apparent reason), meaning that it
won't repaint the window if you minimize it and re-open it, won't
respond to requests to close the window, etc., after opening and closing
a *lot* of browser windows (well over 100) in a single session. (I've
never had that many open simultaneously...it's just when I've opened a
window, done something, closed the window, opened another...many times
without ever closing them all at once, thus never actually exiting the
app.) The only way I've found to get around that is to peridically exit
Firefox altogether and restart it, before the problem arises. Perhaps
the same bug affects opening and closing too many tabs.
AFAICT, both of those happen even with sites that aren't using any Java,
Javascript, or Flash.
Mark South
> I'm running Gentoo on a 3mhz laptop....
Well, that's pretty slow. In 1986 I already had an Amiga that ran at just
under 8MHz.
PS Yes, it's a typo :-)
--
mark south: world citizen, net denizen
echo znexfb...@lnubb.pb.hx|tr a-z n-za-m
Jim Strathmeyer
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005, Rich Gibbs wrote:
>> In any case, it's worth trying things without the Flash plugin.
> I use an extension called Flashblock that lets me choose whether to
> see Flash or not.
Yeah, I uninstalled my plugins, then uninstalled Flash. Uninstalling
Flash appears to have solved the problem. I'll give Flashblock a try;
thanks for the help.
--
Jim Strathmeyer
Harold Stevens
[Snip...]
> Yeah, I uninstalled my plugins, then uninstalled Flash. Uninstalling
> Flash appears to have solved the problem.
FWIW, I decided years ago Flash was an abomination and will not knowingly
have it installed on my gear (obviously, Doze victims don't have a choice
in the matter, usually).
I happen to use SuSE (mostly), and at each install lately it asks for you
to give your blessing to Macromedia-Flash EULA/license/whatever to get it
installed. Sure--fat chance I'm going to that, you lunatics. Very nice of
SuSE to help nip that nonsense in the bud.
I select to put Flash where the sun don't shine, end of story.
Flash is like having a rabid ferret "help" run your browser.
--
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.
Mark South
> In <SeGdnRYQF7U...@adelphia.com> Jim Strathmeyer:
>
> [Snip...]
>
>> Yeah, I uninstalled my plugins, then uninstalled Flash. Uninstalling
>> Flash appears to have solved the problem.
>
> FWIW, I decided years ago Flash was an abomination and will not knowingly
> have it installed on my gear
Amen, Brother Jim!
>(obviously, Doze victims don't have a choice
> in the matter, usually).
Using Firefox helps. Just don't install the plugins after installing FF.
> I happen to use SuSE (mostly), and at each install lately it asks for you
> to give your blessing to Macromedia-Flash EULA/license/whatever to get it
> installed. Sure--fat chance I'm going to that, you lunatics. Very nice of
> SuSE to help nip that nonsense in the bud.
I use Mandriva a lot, and there it isn't installed by default either.
If one uses Epiphany one doesn't even get asked about flash, BTW. :-)
> I select to put Flash where the sun don't shine, end of story.
>
> Flash is like having a rabid ferret "help" run your browser.
My summary: if I want to get information, Flash gets in the way. If I
want to watch mindless TV, that's what the big black box in front of the
sofa is for.
Dances With Crows
Sun and said:
> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:54:09 +0000, Harold Stevens wrote:
>> FWIW, I decided years ago Flash was an abomination and will not
>> the sun don't shine, end of story. Flash is like having a rabid
>> ferret "help" run your browser.
> My summary: if I want to get information, Flash gets in the way. If I
> want to watch mindless TV, that's what the big black box in front of
> the sofa is for.
Just to play Devil's Advocate, there are a number of places that use
Flash in interesting/neat ways. http://homestarrunner.com/ and
http://newgrounds.com/ come to mind. Cartoonish video can be a lot
smaller in Flash than it can in many video codecs, and Flash games seem
to work much better than Java games. (Maybe that's just because all the
JVMs are such bloated sacks, and hardly anyone is using Java applets
because of all the platform/JVM incompatabilities in what was supposed
to be a write-once, debug-everywhere language.)
For the other 95% of Flash misuse on the WWW, there's Flashblock.
--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / mail: TRAP + SPAN don't belong
http://www.brainbench.com / "He is a rhythmic movement of the
-----------------------------/ penguins, is Tux." --MegaHAL
Robert M. Riches Jr.
> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:10:59 +0200, Mark South staggered into the Black
> Sun and said:
>> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:54:09 +0000, Harold Stevens wrote:
>>> FWIW, I decided years ago Flash was an abomination and will not
>>> knowingly have it installed on my gear. I select to put Flash where
>>> the sun don't shine, end of story. Flash is like having a rabid
>>> ferret "help" run your browser.
>> My summary: if I want to get information, Flash gets in the way. If I
>> want to watch mindless TV, that's what the big black box in front of
>> the sofa is for.
>
> Just to play Devil's Advocate, there are a number of places that use
> Flash in interesting/neat ways. http://homestarrunner.com/ and
> http://newgrounds.com/ come to mind. Cartoonish video can be a lot
> smaller in Flash than it can in many video codecs, and Flash games seem
> to work much better than Java games. (Maybe that's just because all the
> JVMs are such bloated sacks, and hardly anyone is using Java applets
> because of all the platform/JVM incompatabilities in what was supposed
> to be a write-once, debug-everywhere language.)
>
> For the other 95% of Flash misuse on the WWW, there's Flashblock.
I also refuse to install the Flash player, but my main
reason is the audit provision in the EULA. I don't give
people or businesses a ticket to enter my house whenever
they feel like it (unless there is a _solid_ basis for
trust).
Robert Riches
spamt...@verizon.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
Mark South
> Just to play Devil's Advocate,
Technically, that's what I was doing. You're playing Saint's Advocate :-)
> there are a number of places that use
> Flash in interesting/neat ways. http://homestarrunner.com/ and
> http://newgrounds.com/ come to mind.
OK, 2 sites out of a billion or so. I can still manage without them.
> Cartoonish video can be a lot
> smaller in Flash than it can in many video codecs, and Flash games seem
> to work much better than Java games.
Games. What the eggsbox and ps2 are for. Cartoons. There it's been
all downhill since Tom & Jerry.
Do you realise that Java and Flash are destined to be mentioned in the
same breath, BTW?
> (Maybe that's just because all the
> JVMs are such bloated sacks, and hardly anyone is using Java applets
> because of all the platform/JVM incompatabilities in what was supposed
> to be a write-once, debug-everywhere language.)
JVMs are bloated sacks because Java is such a mess a priori.
> For the other 95% of Flash misuse on the WWW, there's Flashblock.
Your figure is too low. Even if your 2 sites justify it, the figure is
100% to an arbitrarily large number of decimals.
Mark South
> I also refuse to install the Flash player, but my main
> reason is the audit provision in the EULA. I don't give
> people or businesses a ticket to enter my house whenever
> they feel like it (unless there is a _solid_ basis for
> trust).
The EULA is the killer for Flash. If it *might* be fun and the licence
was fair, or if it was really essential for life as we know it but the
licence was draconian, then people would happily install it.
As it is, the only people who have nothing to lose are XP users, since
they've already granted the same rights to Microsoft....
> Robert Riches
> spamt...@verizon.net
> (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
You've lost your .sig .separator!
Harold Stevens
[Snip...]
> I also refuse to install the Flash player, but my main
> reason is the audit provision in the EULA.
How about Adobe deciding they can audit your PDF use, without permission?
I was outraged (like others, apparently) Adobe (who IIRC bought Macromedia
and its Flash "technology" not long ago) put spyware in Acroread 7.0:
March 30, 2005
This article was contributed by Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier.
Linux users may have been pleased to find that Adobe has finally made
available a new version of its Acrobat Reader, with accessibility
features, a much slicker interface than Acrobat 5.x and new and other
spiffy features. However, there are a few other features that Linux
users should be aware of.
A company called Remote Approach is promising to alert PDF publishers
as to the "reach and use of their materials." We were curious to find
out how Remote Approach was going to make good on its promise, given
that PDF has largely been seen as a one-way medium. To find out, we
created a test account and uploaded a PDF to be "tagged" by Remote
Approach, and then downloaded the modified document to see whether
Remote Approach could log our use of the document.
...
By default, Adobe Reader 7 turns on JavaScript, so the "tagged"
document is able to "phone home" without the user's awareness. Turning
off JavaScript disables the document's code, and prevents Remote
Approach (or any other entity) from tracking views of the document. No
doubt, Remote Approach is using features that would normally be used
to submit information from a PDF form.
Full story and comments:
http://lwn.net/Articles/129729/
If Adobe thinks I am as stupid/cowed as typical microsmurfs, they are very
badly mistaken.
I preordered SuSE 10.0 and expect to install it sometime RSN.
The first thing I'll do postinstall is nuke Acroread, if it gets installed
without my permission. Macromedia/Flash too, if it sneaks past the EULA at
the usual preinstall agreement, in this version of SuSE.
If I wanted M$-style sneakware I by gawd would BUY that garbage LEGALLY.
Robert M. Riches Jr.
Thank you for posting the above info. I had read vague
hintings that acroread was "phoning home", but nothing
specific. Now, I'll have to figure out what to do about
this. It sounds like disabling javascript inside acroread
would suffice. Or, is that too simplistic a view?
Actually, for many (most?) practical purposes, a web site
could keep track of downloads of PDF or other files. With
cookies, they could get a good idea of the identity of the
downloader. That's a bit different from view-time tracking,
though.
As a matter of principle, I'm more concerned about the
apparent permission for physical "audit" in the Flash player
EULA, even if Macromedia would find it difficult to
physically knock on the doors of more than a handful of
users. Also, it sounds like Adobe simply put a platform for
running javascript inside acroread, which is a step or two
short of putting full-blown spyware directly in the reader.
I understand there's an open source pdflib for reading and
writing PDF files. I would think it shouldn't be too
difficult to write an application using that library to
strip off some or all embedded javascript from a document.
Again, thanks for posting the info.
Harold Stevens
[Snip...]
> It sounds like disabling javascript inside acroread
> would suffice. Or, is that too simplistic a view?
There was a thread on this in alt.os.linux.suse around mid-May or so:
Subject: Re: avoiding acrobat reader 7 calling home
starting with MID:
Message-ID: <42838375$0$555$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
or so, if you can pull it up in a threaded newsreader.
Essentially yes, disabling the AC7 Javascript function is one way, but it
may be overkill. Another idea which I implemented was route the phonehome
crap to localhost (essentially, a net /dev/null), via /etc/hosts:
# Disable Adobe Acrobat Reader version 7 spyware
# See http://lwn.net/Articles/129729/
# After doing a little research, we found that Adobe's Reader was
# connecting to http://www.remoteapproach.com/remoteapproach/logging.asp
# each time we opened the document.
# Adding the following to your /etc/hosts should also help:
127.0.0.1 www.remoteapproach.com
127.0.0.1 remoteapproach.com
(Other ramifications in the thread I mentioned if you can get to it)
HTH...
John-Paul Stewart
I use Acrobat Reader 7.0 with Javascript turned off and it has the
really annoying side-effect of popping up a dialog box every time you
close the reader which says:
"This document contains JavaScripts. Do you want to enable JavaScripts
from now on? The document may not behave correctly if they're disabled."
Note that you get that every time you close the program, not just when
the document actually contains JavaScript. (Even just opening the app
with *no* document and immediately exiting pops up the message.) If you
have the browser plugin installed and JavaScript turned off in the
reader, you'll get the message when you exit your browser too. It's
irritating, but worse it's *very* mis-leading.
shakiro
[snip>
> How about Adobe deciding they can audit your PDF use, without permission?
>
> I was outraged (like others, apparently) Adobe (who IIRC bought Macromedia
> and its Flash "technology" not long ago) put spyware in Acroread 7.0:
[snip>
> By default, Adobe Reader 7 turns on JavaScript, so the "tagged"
What the F...! I didn't know this, probably clicked too fast through
the licence agreement :)
When I opened Acroread 7 with no document and disabled javascript,
a message popped up saying:
"This document contains JavaScripts. Do you want to enable JavaScripts
from now on? The document may not behave correctly if they're
disabled."
I'm not amused when confronted with such lies...
Maybe the best thing to do would also be to fill out the proxy tab in
preferences with some non-existing connection.
Probably that's what you get when you want GNU/Linux to perform in the
same way as MS Windows...
shakiro
shakiro
[snip>
> # Disable Adobe Acrobat Reader version 7 spyware
> # See http://lwn.net/Articles/129729/
> # After doing a little research, we found that Adobe's Reader was
> # connecting to http://www.remoteapproach.com/remoteapproach/logging.asp
> # each time we opened the document.
> # Adding the following to your /etc/hosts should also help:
> 127.0.0.1 www.remoteapproach.com
> 127.0.0.1 remoteapproach.com
Why not use 0.0.0.0?
shakiro
Dances With Crows
Sun and said:
> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:25:21 -0500, Dances With Crows wrote:
>> there are a number of places that use Flash in interesting/neat ways.
>> http://homestarrunner.com/ and http://newgrounds.com/ come to mind.
> OK, 2 sites out of a billion or so. I can still manage without them.
Yes, but I was making a general statement and giving 2 examples. There
are more good uses of Flash out there; those were the 2 sites that
immediately came to mind.
>> Cartoonish video can be a lot smaller in Flash than it can in many
>> video codecs, and Flash games seem to work much better than Java
>> games.
> Games. What the eggsbox and ps2 are for.
...so you have these powerful, fast, multipurpose computers, and you
think no one plays games on them? Games are usually the second use to
which a new technology is put (right after porn.) Or you think one guy
with a relatively cheap proprietary dev kit can create a short, fun
console game? Man, I want some of what you've been smoking.
> Cartoons. There it's been all downhill since Tom & Jerry.
Sturgeon's Law applies to cartoons, sure, but if you dismiss all modern
cartoons, you're throwing out some good stuff that's been produced
recently, like "Invader Zim". And then there's the whole anime genre,
which contains some amazing art and stories amidst all the dreck.
> Do you realise that Java and Flash are destined to be mentioned in the
> same breath, BTW?
Doubtful. Java's a Turing-complete general purpose language. Flash is
designed to put pretty pictures on screens. Comparing Java to Flash in
the large sense is like comparing a machine shop to a Ford Focus. This
is even more true when you realize that most of the Java code in
production now lives on servers and does boring, non-GUI junk like
handle your financial records at your bank.
>> Maybe that's just because all the JVMs are such bloated sacks
> JVMs are bloated sacks because Java is such a mess a priori.
No argument here, but like Cobol and FORTRAN, it's not going away
because people hate it. Java serves a need (somehow) and it's become
entrenched, sort of like SMB.
>> For the other 95% of Flash misuse on the WWW, there's Flashblock.
> Your figure is too low. Even if your 2 sites justify it, the figure
> is 100% to an arbitrarily large number of decimals.
The presence of a number of idiots misusing a protocol or language does
*not* necessarily invalidate that protocol or language. If it did, we'd
have to shut down the Intern@~!__xDxD}_}_
NO CARRIER
Harold Stevens
[Snip...]
> Why not use 0.0.0.0?
Dunno...maybe it (potentially) delays kernel TCP routing (127.0.0.1 maps to
localhost from gitgo, everywhere, alpha and omega)? Anyone? Beuler?
Rick Moen
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005, Rich Gibbs wrote:
>
>> In any case, it's worth trying things without the Flash plugin.
>
> I use an extension called Flashblock that lets me choose whether to see
> Flash or not.
Flashblock is actually even _more_ worth installing on systems that
_lack_ a Flash interpreter.
Why? Because site that want to deluge you with advertisements use
Javascript queries to determine what your browser software is capable of
displaying. If your browser claims to be able to display flash, they
send advertisements in .swf format. If not, they send advertisements in
some more conventional format, such as animated GIFs.
A non-Flash-equipped browser without Flashblock gets GIF ads.
A non-Flash-equipped browser -with- Flashblock gets -no- ads.
Thus my point.
And I agree with you that, if you _do_ have a Flash interpreter, it's
indispensible.
--
Cheers, "That article and its poster have been cancelled."
Rick Moen -- David B. O'Donnel, sysadmin for America Online
ri...@linuxmafia.com
Rick Moen
> [Snip...]
>
>> I also refuse to install the Flash player, but my main
>> reason is the audit provision in the EULA.
>
> How about Adobe deciding they can audit your PDF use, without permission?
>
> I was outraged (like others, apparently) Adobe (who IIRC bought Macromedia
> and its Flash "technology" not long ago) put spyware in Acroread 7.0:
Although I don't run the Macromedia Flash interpreter, either, I saw no
reason to put up with even the possibility of that #&$A@# on my LAN.
So, my DNS nameserver includes this in its configuration:
//Domains Killed Dirt Cheap:
//"remoteapproach.com" collects spy-on-users data from Acrobat 7.x and later.
zone "remoteapproach.com" {
type master;
allow-query { any; };
file "/etc/bind/remoteapproach.com.zone";
};
Once you declare yourself authoritative for a DNS domain, you can
resolve it to anywhere you choose -- or to nowhere at all.
Rick Moen
> Essentially yes, disabling the AC7 Javascript function is one way, but it
> may be overkill. Another idea which I implemented was route the phonehome
> crap to localhost (essentially, a net /dev/null), via /etc/hosts:
>
> # Disable Adobe Acrobat Reader version 7 spyware
> # See http://lwn.net/Articles/129729/
> # After doing a little research, we found that Adobe's Reader was
> # connecting to http://www.remoteapproach.com/remoteapproach/logging.asp
> # each time we opened the document.
> # Adding the following to your /etc/hosts should also help:
> 127.0.0.1 www.remoteapproach.com
> 127.0.0.1 remoteapproach.com
That takes care of two hostnames in that domain, but not untold others
that they might switch to in the future. Which is why I simply
redirected DNS for the entire domain inside my nameserver, instead.
--
Cheers, The cynics among us might say: "We laugh,
Rick Moen monkeyboys -- Linux IS the mainstream UNIX now!
ri...@linuxmafia.com MuaHaHaHa!" but that would be rude. -- Jim Dennis
Rick Moen
Serve:
> Doubtful. Java's a Turing-complete general purpose language.
Volley:
http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.219431
http://web.ivy.net/~carton/academia/java_languageoftomorrow.html
--
Cheers, "Learning Java has been a slow and tortuous process for me. Every
Rick Moen few minutes, I start screaming 'No, you fools!' and have to go
ri...@linuxmafia.com read something from _Structure and Interpretation of
Computer Programs_ to de-stress." -- The Cube, www.forum3000.org
Dan C
> My summary: if I want to get information, Flash gets in the way. If I
> want to watch mindless TV, that's what the big black box in front of the
> sofa is for.
A bit narrow-minded. Here's an example: If you are a baseball fan, and
would like to access the (large amount of) data on the http://www.mlb.com
website, you lose out. There are many other examples of useful
application of Flash, just as there are doubtless many useless ones.
There are uses for Flash which are not "mindless TV".
--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
Mark South
> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:10:59 +0200, Mark South wrote:
>
>> My summary: if I want to get information, Flash gets in the way. If I
>> want to watch mindless TV, that's what the big black box in front of the
>> sofa is for.
>
> A bit narrow-minded.
Yeah Dan, compared to you, I'm narrow minded. IYHO.
> Here's an example: If you are a baseball fan, and
> would like to access the (large amount of) data on the http://www.mlb.com
> website, you lose out.
I'll leave that to baseball fans to worry about.
> There are many other examples of useful
> application of Flash, just as there are doubtless many useless ones.
The only important question is whether one can live without them or not.
Many of us seem to find it easy to live without Flash. QED.
> There are uses for Flash which are not "mindless TV".
There are also uses for Usenet that involve conveying information without
personal insult, but apparently only a few of us use those.
Mark South
> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 20:18:55 +0200, Mark South staggered into the Black
> Sun
I must actually find where that place is sometime, it sounds like fun.
> and said:
>> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:25:21 -0500, Dances With Crows wrote:
>>> there are a number of places that use Flash in interesting/neat ways.
>>> http://homestarrunner.com/ and http://newgrounds.com/ come to mind.
>> OK, 2 sites out of a billion or so. I can still manage without them.
>
> Yes, but I was making a general statement and giving 2 examples. There
> are more good uses of Flash out there; those were the 2 sites that
> immediately came to mind.
OK.
>>> Cartoonish video can be a lot smaller in Flash than it can in many
>>> video codecs, and Flash games seem to work much better than Java
>>> games.
>> Games. What the eggsbox and ps2 are for.
>
> ...so you have these powerful, fast, multipurpose computers, and you
> think no one plays games on them? Games are usually the second use to
> which a new technology is put (right after porn.) Or you think one guy
> with a relatively cheap proprietary dev kit can create a short, fun
> console game? Man, I want some of what you've been smoking.
I don't smoke. Or if I do, I don't inhale :-)
The point is that a $200 game console package beats hell out of a $1000 PC
for games.
>> Cartoons. There it's been all downhill since Tom & Jerry.
>
> Sturgeon's Law applies to cartoons, sure, but if you dismiss all modern
> cartoons, you're throwing out some good stuff that's been produced
> recently, like "Invader Zim". And then there's the whole anime genre,
> which contains some amazing art and stories amidst all the dreck.
The BD culture is alive and well here in Francophonia, and I'm aware of
the artistry. Doesn't need Flash.
>> Do you realise that Java and Flash are destined to be mentioned in the
>> same breath, BTW?
>
> Doubtful. Java's a Turing-complete general purpose language. Flash is
> designed to put pretty pictures on screens. Comparing Java to Flash in
> the large sense is like comparing a machine shop to a Ford Focus. This
> is even more true when you realize that most of the Java code in
> production now lives on servers and does boring, non-GUI junk like
> handle your financial records at your bank.
I have fairly detailed knowledge of what goes on in bank backoffices and
servers. I only meant that Flash and Java are both badly designed, badly
thought out pieces of junk that have been sold heavily as being somehow
necessary to the future of the net.
>>> Maybe that's just because all the JVMs are such bloated
sacks
>> JVMs are bloated sacks because Java is such a mess a priori.
>
> No argument here, but like Cobol and FORTRAN, it's not going away
> because people hate it. Java serves a need (somehow) and it's become
> entrenched, sort of like SMB.
Just because something addresses a need doesn't meant that it is what's
needed. Cocaine addresses people's need to feel soothed and capable.
That doesn't mean cocaine is the best solution.
>>> For the other 95% of Flash misuse on the WWW, there's Flashblock.
>> Your figure is too low. Even if your 2 sites justify it, the figure is
>> 100% to an arbitrarily large number of decimals.
>
> The presence of a number of idiots misusing a protocol or language does
> *not* necessarily invalidate that protocol or language. If it did, we'd
> have to shut down the Intern@~!__xDxD}_}_ NO CARRIER
LOL! This is a current nostalgia joke on ARK.
Dan C
>> Here's an example: If you are a baseball fan, and
>> would like to access the (large amount of) data on the http://www.mlb.com
>> website, you lose out.
> I'll leave that to baseball fans to worry about.
That's fine, but it was an illustration that your claim of Flash being
useful only for "mindless TV" is silly.
>> There are many other examples of useful application of Flash, just as
>> there are doubtless many useless ones.
> The only important question is whether one can live without them or not.
> Many of us seem to find it easy to live without Flash. QED.
That wasn't the original point of the conversation though. Nice wiggle.
>> There are uses for Flash which are not "mindless TV".
> There are also uses for Usenet that involve conveying information
> without personal insult, but apparently only a few of us use those.
Not sure what your point is here. Did you feel that I insulted you by
pointing out a valid use for Flash?
zen...@highstream.net
wrote:
>Flashblock is actually even _more_ worth installing on systems that
>_lack_ a Flash interpreter.
>
>Why? Because site that want to deluge you with advertisements use
>Javascript queries to determine what your browser software is capable of
>displaying. If your browser claims to be able to display flash, they
>send advertisements in .swf format. If not, they send advertisements in
>some more conventional format, such as animated GIFs.
>
>A non-Flash-equipped browser without Flashblock gets GIF ads.
>A non-Flash-equipped browser -with- Flashblock gets -no- ads.
>
>Thus my point.
>
>And I agree with you that, if you _do_ have a Flash interpreter, it's
>indispensible.
I've resorted to just using a script to copy the flash files in-and-out
of an "active" file. This is perl, but I'm sure you can do it as a
shell script too. Occaisionally I need to restart the browser to
get the plugin activated, but it is so seldom that it dosn't hassle me.
I usually keep it "flash off", unless I go to a site where I want to see
the flash.
Usage: "flash on" or "flash off"
(Of course you must put this script in your path somewhere, and
adjust the plugin file locations to your username)
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use warnings;
my $mode = shift;
die "Usage : flash on or off, $!\n" unless (defined $mode);
foreach('/home/zentara/.mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so',
'/home/zentara/.mozilla/plugins/flashplayer.xpt'){
if ($mode eq 'off'){rename $_ , "$_.bak" or warn $!, "\n";}
if ($mode eq 'on'){
rename "$_.bak", substr ("$_.bak",0,-4) or warn $!, "\n";}
}
__END__
--
I'm not really a human, but I play one on earth.
http://zentara.net/japh.html