PINE and IMAP inboxes
Crow Leader
NM Public
>
> Is there any fix to making Pine see an IMAP Inbox, not just the
> folders? No versin of Pine I try seems to get this right.
In Pine, you need to specify an INBOX in either the inbox-path or
your incoming-folders list. I discuss this on my Power Pine page
in this section:
Using incoming-folders (aka Pine Bookmarks)
<http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/pc/#recentIF>
Hope this helps,
Nancy
--
Infinite Ink: <http://www.ii.com/>
IMAP Service Providers: <http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/imap/isps/>
All About Pine: <http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/>
Crow Leader
> On 15 Mar 2005 Crow Leader (pres...@MUNGEpanix.com) wrote:
>>
>> Is there any fix to making Pine see an IMAP Inbox, not just the
>> folders? No versin of Pine I try seems to get this right.
>
> In Pine, you need to specify an INBOX in either the inbox-path or
> your incoming-folders list. I discuss this on my Power Pine page
> in this section:
>
> Using incoming-folders (aka Pine Bookmarks)
> <http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/pc/#recentIF>
>
> Hope this helps,
> Nancy
This is just as confusing as any other pine document- I cannot find the fix if it's even there.
The problem is Pine is braindead and cannot see both messages and folders on a Courier IMAP server at the same time.
If I setup a collection to connect to an IMAP server with an explicit view of INBOX. pine cannot see the messages in the folder, but will see other folders such as Sent and Trash or whatever there is.
If you setup a collection and don't specify the INBOX. pine will only see the messages in your Inbox, and no other folders.
Why is pine so unable to list all my folders, say Inbox and Trash by default in a pretty little list like when people actually used local mail, and let me navigate them to view my mail?
Maybe somebody can post their .pinerc of a working config that can act like a normal mail client in this situation, if it's at all possible.
Pine is becoming lotus notes- a piece of junk that tries to do everything but email.
Mark Crispin
continue to lash out.
In general, it does not solve a problem to curse a tool and/or attack
documents written by people who attempt to help you. Although it may be
satsifying on an emotional level, it will get you no further to solving
your problem; and it deters people who might otherwise help you.
-- Mark --
http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
NM Public
> NM Public <ago...@nm.deflexion.com> wrote:
>> On 15 Mar 2005 Crow Leader (pres...@MUNGEpanix.com) wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there any fix to making Pine see an IMAP Inbox, not just the
>>> folders? No versin of Pine I try seems to get this right.
>>
>> In Pine, you need to specify an INBOX in either the inbox-path or
>> your incoming-folders list. I discuss this on my Power Pine page
>> in this section:
>>
>> Using incoming-folders (aka Pine Bookmarks)
>> <http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/pc/#recentIF>
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Nancy
>
> This is just as confusing as any other pine document- I cannot find the fix if it's even there.
If you give me some constructive feedback, I will edit this to
try to make more clear.
> The problem is Pine is braindead and cannot see both messages and folders on a Courier IMAP server at the same time.
>
> If I setup a collection to connect to an IMAP server with an explicit view of INBOX. pine cannot see the messages in the folder, but will see other folders such as Sent and Trash or whatever there is.
>
> If you setup a collection and don't specify the INBOX. pine will only see the messages in your Inbox, and no other folders.
>
> Why is pine so unable to list all my folders, say Inbox and Trash by default in a pretty little list like when people actually used local mail, and let me navigate them to view my mail?
>
> Maybe somebody can post their .pinerc of a working config that can act like a normal mail client in this situation, if it's at all possible.
>
> Pine is becoming lotus notes- a piece of junk that tries to do everything but email.
Since you have a panix.com address and Panix uses Courier IMAP,
maybe this will help:
Using Pine with the New Panix Mail System
<http://www.panix.com/help/mail.newmail.pine.html>
If it doesn't, I know there are a lot of smart helpful people in
the panix.* newsgroups who can probably help you. I also have
some Panix-specific Pine info here that might help:
<http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/imap/isps/#panix>
Crow Leader
> On 15 Mar 2005 Crow Leader (pres...@MUNGEpanix.com) wrote:
>
>> NM Public <ago...@nm.deflexion.com> wrote:
>>> On 15 Mar 2005 Crow Leader (pres...@MUNGEpanix.com) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is there any fix to making Pine see an IMAP Inbox, not just the
>>>> folders? No versin of Pine I try seems to get this right.
>>>
>>> In Pine, you need to specify an INBOX in either the inbox-path or
>>> your incoming-folders list. I discuss this on my Power Pine page
>>> in this section:
>>>
>>> Using incoming-folders (aka Pine Bookmarks)
>>> <http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/pc/#recentIF>
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Nancy
>>
>> This is just as confusing as any other pine document- I cannot find the fix if it's even there.
>
> If you give me some constructive feedback, I will edit this to
> try to make more clear.
Please take no offense- I doubt you made pine into the wreck it currently is.
>> The problem is Pine is braindead and cannot see both messages and folders on a Courier IMAP server at the same time.
>>
>> If I setup a collection to connect to an IMAP server with an explicit view of INBOX. pine cannot see the messages in the folder, but will see other folders such as Sent and Trash or whatever there is.
>>
>> If you setup a collection and don't specify the INBOX. pine will only see the messages in your Inbox, and no other folders.
>>
>> Why is pine so unable to list all my folders, say Inbox and Trash by default in a pretty little list like when people actually used local mail, and let me navigate them to view my mail?
>>
>> Maybe somebody can post their .pinerc of a working config that can act like a normal mail client in this situation, if it's at all possible.
>>
>> Pine is becoming lotus notes- a piece of junk that tries to do everything but email.
>
> Since you have a panix.com address and Panix uses Courier IMAP,
> maybe this will help:
>
> Using Pine with the New Panix Mail System
> <http://www.panix.com/help/mail.newmail.pine.html>
Bingo. This is what I needed, and is apparently lacking from the volumes of pine documentation- How to work with IMAP like every other mail reader on the planet.
Crow Leader
> I doubt that attempts to help you will be successful as long as you
> continue to lash out.
Somebody needs to. Pine is a huge mess. Take for instance the conflicting documentation. 1) Don't use unencrypted passwords for IMAP access!! 2) pine defaults to using rsh to contact remote servers. Sorry, the 1980s are over. Either be secure or don't pretend.
>
> In general, it does not solve a problem to curse a tool and/or attack
> documents written by people who attempt to help you. Although it may be
> satsifying on an emotional level, it will get you no further to solving
> your problem; and it deters people who might otherwise help you.
If you check usenet archives, you'll see plent of people have asked the same question I did, and from what I've seen, nobody got a good answer. Nancy was the fist person to address this with a solid answer, and I thank her.
It still comes down to the documentation for pine is awful, and the default settings are questionable. There should be section called "I want to see all my mail with IMAP" that has the info on the Panix help section.
Instead of harassing new users with a silly "want to be counted" why not ask something useful like "What sort of mail access do you want to setup" with options for local mbox and IMAP. Wow, that might be the first useful feature added in like 10 years.
Mark Crispin
strongly recommend that you use some other email client than Pine. You
will be much happier.
Sam
> Given your stated attitudes and beliefs, and that your ISP uses Courier, I
> strongly recommend that you use some other email client than Pine. You
> will be much happier.
I agree, and I would suggest Cone: http://www.courier-mta.org/cone/
Does pretty much everything Pine does. If you're running Fedora you will
find a fairly recent cone build in Fedora Extras.
Crow Leader
I haven't used pine as my mail client in years, I've since moved to products that either function correctly or have consistent or predictable behavior. I only use panix for usenet.
You're throwing you userbase away.
John J. Foster
> My attitudes didn't come from nowhere. If you do some checking, you'll see the only reason people use mutt is because it isn't pine. This should concern you.
>
> I haven't used pine as my mail client in years, I've since moved to products that either function correctly or have consistent or predictable behavior. I only use panix for usenet.
>
> You're throwing you userbase away.
>
> Mark Crispin <M...@cac.washington.edu> wrote:
move to slrn for news.
John
--
It is not unusual for those at the wrong end of the club to have a
clearer picture of reality than those who wield it.
Noam Chomsky
Crow Leader
Crow Leader
>> My attitudes didn't come from nowhere. If you do some checking, you'll see the only reason people use mutt is because it isn't pine. This should concern you.
>>
>> I haven't used pine as my mail client in years, I've since moved to products that either function correctly or have consistent or predictable behavior. I only use panix for usenet.
>>
>> You're throwing you userbase away.
>>
>> Mark Crispin <M...@cac.washington.edu> wrote:
> So why are you using Pine? If you've "moved to other products", why not
> move to slrn for news.
>
> John
tin works fine. What was the "reason" that pine is unable to view messages in an imap inbox in the same way it views folders, let alone at the same time? I'm really confused by this one- especially because there are always new version.
On the plus side, pine 4.62 will compile just fine on a 1997 release of AIX4.2 with the brokenish IBM C compiler just fine. Good work on the portability, now for usability.
Mark Crispin
> What was the "reason" that pine is unable to view messages in an imap
> inbox in the same way it views folders, let alone at the same time? I'm
> really confused by this one- especially because there are always new
> version.
That is a hint that the problem is one of usage/configuration and not in
capability.
At this point, however, I believe that you should use other software.
Crow Leader
> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Crow Leader wrote:
>> What was the "reason" that pine is unable to view messages in an imap
>> inbox in the same way it views folders, let alone at the same time? I'm
>> really confused by this one- especially because there are always new
>> version.
>
> That is a hint that the problem is one of usage/configuration and not in
> capability.
It could be. As I asked before, anybody is welcomed to share their .pinerc that will show my imap inbox as a folder along with all the other imap folders I have, so I don't need to jump back and forth. Please school me. Demonstrate the capability to see my inbox and folders on one screen that I can navigate. In the mean time, I'll setup my .rhosts files while making sure my passwords are encrypted in the name of security.
NM Public
>
> It could be. As I asked before, anybody is welcomed to share
> their .pinerc that will show my imap inbox as a folder along
> with all the other imap folders I have, so I don't need to jump
> back and forth. Please school me. Demonstrate the capability to
> see my inbox and folders on one screen that I can navigate. In
> the mean time, I'll setup my .rhosts files while making sure my
> passwords are encrypted in the name of security.
Try this:
1] Make sure that that enable-incoming-folders is NOT set.
2] Make sure that your incoming-folders variable is not set,
i.e., it should look like this in your pinerc:
incoming-folders=
3] Quit and restart Pine so that the above 2 settings are known
to Pine.
4] Type L to go to you Folder List and view your default folder
collection (the top one). The first folder should be INBOX, which
is what is specified in inbox-path.
Does this do what you want?
Nancy
--
Infinite Ink: <http://www.ii.com/>
IMAP Service Providers: <http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/imap/isps/>
All About Pine: <http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/>
Power Pine: <http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/pc/>
Kerman Leader
> On 17 Mar 2005 Crow Leader (pres...@MUNGEpanix.com) wrote:
>>
>> It could be. As I asked before, anybody is welcomed to share
>> their .pinerc that will show my imap inbox as a folder along
>> with all the other imap folders I have, so I don't need to jump
>> back and forth. Please school me. Demonstrate the capability to
>> see my inbox and folders on one screen that I can navigate. In
>> the mean time, I'll setup my .rhosts files while making sure my
>> passwords are encrypted in the name of security.
>
> Try this:
>
> 1] Make sure that that enable-incoming-folders is NOT set.
>
> 2] Make sure that your incoming-folders variable is not set,
> i.e., it should look like this in your pinerc:
>
> incoming-folders=
It's empty.
>
> 3] Quit and restart Pine so that the above 2 settings are known
> to Pine.
>
> 4] Type L to go to you Folder List and view your default folder
> collection (the top one). The first folder should be INBOX, which
> is what is specified in inbox-path.
>
>
> Does this do what you want?
Mostly. It shows it's possible to at least see what's in side my inbox and Sent or Trash folders. However, if I'm looking at a message in my inbox and want to see something in my Sent folder I still have to navigate all over the place to get there. For example, but hitting "< < [down] [right] [enter]", or "m [enter] [down] [enter] [right] [enter]". It's really convenient.
I did come up with a pine limitation solution. Start screen and two instances of pine, and then toggle between one that shows my inbox and one that shows my folders.
>
> Nancy
>
NM Public
> Mostly. It shows it's possible to at least see what's in side
> my inbox and Sent or Trash folders. However, if I'm looking at
> a message in my inbox and want to see something in my Sent
> folder I still have to navigate all over the place to get
> there. For example, but hitting "< < [down] [right] [enter]",
> or "m [enter] [down] [enter] [right] [enter]". It's really
> convenient.
It's much easier to use the Go (G) command, e.g, to go to your
Sent folder, type
G Se [tab]
This assumes you've enabled tab completion and you've set up your
goto-default-rule appropripriately (and you don't have another
folder that starts with the letters 'Se').
The way I've got Pine configured, I can go to my INBOX from
anywhere in Pine by simply typing:
G [return]
> I did come up with a pine limitation solution. Start screen and
> two instances of pine, and then toggle between one that shows
> my inbox and one that shows my folders.
I use that trick too. I almost always have at least 2 instances
of Pine running and a Web-based IMAP client too!
Nancy
--
Infinite Ink: <http://www.ii.com/>
Crow Leader
> On 18 Mar 2005 Kerman Leader (pres...@MUNGEpanix.com) wrote:
>
>> Mostly. It shows it's possible to at least see what's in side
>> my inbox and Sent or Trash folders. However, if I'm looking at
>> a message in my inbox and want to see something in my Sent
>> folder I still have to navigate all over the place to get
>> there. For example, but hitting "< < [down] [right] [enter]",
>> or "m [enter] [down] [enter] [right] [enter]". It's really
>> convenient.
>
> It's much easier to use the Go (G) command, e.g, to go to your
> Sent folder, type
>
> G Se [tab]
>
> This assumes you've enabled tab completion and you've set up your
> goto-default-rule appropripriately (and you don't have another
> folder that starts with the letters 'Se').
>
> The way I've got Pine configured, I can go to my INBOX from
> anywhere in Pine by simply typing:
>
> G [return]
Getting back sounds like it might be a big task if you have lots of similar sounding folders.
>> I did come up with a pine limitation solution. Start screen and
>> two instances of pine, and then toggle between one that shows
>> my inbox and one that shows my folders.
>
> I use that trick too. I almost always have at least 2 instances
> of Pine running and a Web-based IMAP client too!
So what it comes down to is regardless of whatever vague operator error the UW people hint, pine just sucks when it comes to IMAP. SquirrleMail, Outlook, Outlook Express, the old Netscape mails, the new Mozilla mails as well as the Apple osx email client all let you navigate your inbox in the same tree as the rest of your imap folders. I don't recall off hand, but I'm pretty certain even lotus notes does the same thing. There is no preposterous separation between the inbox and other folders. This seems to be a "feature" only pine offers.
>
> Nancy
>
Yiorgos Adamopoulos
> So what it comes down to is regardless of whatever vague operator
> error the UW people hint, pine just sucks when it comes to IMAP.
> SquirrleMail, Outlook, Outlook Express, the old Netscape mails, the
> new Mozilla mails as well as the Apple osx email client all let you
> navigate your inbox in the same tree as the rest of your imap folders.
> I don't recall off hand, but I'm pretty certain even lotus notes does
> the same thing. There is no preposterous separation between the inbox
> and other folders. This seems to be a "feature" only pine offers.
Since you are not inclined to migrate from Pine to any of the clients
that you mention above, why not write a patch for Pine that does what
you want and submit it to the Pine developers.
--
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
Crow Leader
What's the pine development team for again? I migrated away from pine long ago.
Yiorgos Adamopoulos
> What's the pine development team for again?
For developing Pine the way they see fit
> I migrated away from pine long ago.
The why complain about features that it lacks?
--
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
Miquel van Smoorenburg
Crow Leader <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>It could be. As I asked before, anybody is welcomed to share their
>.pinerc that will show my imap inbox as a folder along with all the
>other imap folders I have, so I don't need to jump back and forth.
The INBOX will show up in the first listed imap folder collection,
so something like this:
inbox-path={your.imap.server}INBOX
folder-collections="IMAP folders" {your.imap.server}[], mail/[]
( if you use Courier, try {your.imap.server}[INBOX.] )
Mike.
Crow Leader
>
> The why complain about features that it lacks?
I find it funny to see morons stand around trying to defend someting they cannot. Everybody cries config/user error instead of saying "Hey, that would be a good feature to add" or "correct, pine lacks imap functionality" or "everybody other mail client is wrong so we don't care".
I'm done here.
Yiorgos Adamopoulos
> I find it funny to see morons stand around trying to defend someting they cannot.
I find it even funnier that I am being called a moron by someone who
does not even follow the netiquette rules:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1/ says:
"... Keep your lines under 80 characters, and under 72 if possible (so
that the lines won't get longer than 80 when people include them when
responding to your postings). ..."
> I'm done here.
Thank you!
--
#include <std/disclaimer.h>