Where is the TCL extension list ?
llothar
there was a nice structured list of extensions on the scriptics
website.
Now i couldn't find anything. Never saw such a bad language website
like www.tcl.tk.
Does any such list exist ?
Aric Bills
distribution and/or Daniel Steffan's distribution for OS X. Here are
their lists of extensions:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/ActiveTcl/8.4/at.pkg_index.html
http://tcltkaqua.sourceforge.net/8.4.10.html
Is there a particular extension or functionality you're looking for?
Michael Schlenker
> In the good old days around 2001 (the last time i worked with TCL)
> there was a nice structured list of extensions on the scriptics
> website.
>
> Now i couldn't find anything. Never saw such a bad language website
> like www.tcl.tk.
If you have critics for the web page, talk about it, maybe things can be
changed to the better. Maybe here, maybe in an email to the webmaster of
www.tcl.tk
> Does any such list exist ?
The backlinking list to the Category Package in the Tcl'ers Wiki is similar.
http://wiki.tcl.tk/references/2191!
The problem with the old list was mostly lots of Spam, afaik.
Michael
Torsten Reincke
There are plans for a central repository of extensions. For now, have a
look at this one:
http://www.flightlab.com/~joe/gutter/index.html
Torsten
lvi...@gmail.com
According to llothar <llo...@web.de>:
:In the good old days around 2001 (the last time i worked with TCL)
:there was a nice structured list of extensions on the scriptics
:website.
This is one area of the community where volunteers could make a difference
without having to write a single line of C or Tcl code. Hopefully, people
will be interested in helping out.
I would like to remind the community that the ELMO mailing list is available
if they would like a place to coordinate online resource and documentation
discussions.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elmo/
There's not been much activity there for some time now. But I'd love
to see it become a hotbed of useful work in the Tcl community.
--
<URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/ > Indescribable,uncontainable,all powerful,untameable
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
<URL: mailto:lvi...@gmail.com > <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/ >
llothar
No but everytime i made decisions about what tool to use i want to look
at what does already exist.
And i was really shocked how worse the web sites about tcl have became.
There seems to be nobody responsible for mainting a central page. And
this is for me the sign that the language is dead, just hold by some
old fans (i know many names from my last works in 1999) and people in
maintenance mode for existing software.
It is a pitty but i think a reality. I just saw it too many times in
the past (Sather, Eiffel, Oberon, Tower-Java for example). And i'm not
that stupid to do a wrong decision again with this giant warning signs
on the wall.
So i have to find and fix my python problems as Lua is also is not the
right tool for my job.
stephan...@yahoo.fr
packages informations that users access with a client written in
Tcl/Tk. It is called Tcl-Pkg and has been released a few days ago. A
Sourceforge registration is in progress.
See http://wiki.tcl.tk/tcl-pkg
It allows users to download source code and even Binaries of their
favorite packages.
Some amount of work is however needed to produce a complete package
list like the URL you mentionned.
Stéphane
Neil Madden
>>Is there a particular extension or functionality you're looking for?
>
>
> No but everytime i made decisions about what tool to use i want to look
> at what does already exist.
>
> And i was really shocked how worse the web sites about tcl have became.
> There seems to be nobody responsible for mainting a central page. And
> this is for me the sign that the language is dead, just hold by some
> old fans (i know many names from my last works in 1999) and people in
> maintenance mode for existing software.
I'm pretty sure Tcl was "dead" back in 1999 too. Yet, it's still here.
>
> It is a pitty but i think a reality. I just saw it too many times in
> the past (Sather, Eiffel, Oberon, Tower-Java for example). And i'm not
> that stupid to do a wrong decision again with this giant warning signs
> on the wall.
What's your fear? If you're worried that it's not actively maintained,
then that is far from the truth. Check the traffic on the tcl-core
mailing list, and the TIP archive (http://tip.tcl.tk/) if you want to
see active development. If you're worried that people aren't using it,
then just watch this newsgroup and the wiki (http://wiki.tcl.tk/) -- I
see plenty of updates every day on both. If you're worried that nobody
supports it, then have a look at ActiveState
(http://www.activestate.com/) who provide support, and other companies
that provide consultancy and training.
If, instead, your worries are not technical, but are based on the
appearance or content of the website, well...
The Tcl developer exchange website was recently overhauled. The main
reason for this is that most of the information there (including the
resource/extension list) was out of date and not very often maintained.
Instead, the wiki has largely taken over the role of cataloguing
information about extensions and tools for Tcl, and does a pretty good
job. The main website is now just a launch-pad to get people started
with Tcl. I think it serves that purpose fine.
-- Neil
Adrian Ho
>> Is there a particular extension or functionality you're looking for?
>
> No but everytime i made decisions about what tool to use i want to look
> at what does already exist.
>
> And i was really shocked how worse the web sites about tcl have became.
> There seems to be nobody responsible for mainting a central page. And
> this is for me the sign that the language is dead, just hold by some
> old fans (i know many names from my last works in 1999) and people in
> maintenance mode for existing software.
Tcl: The Dead Language That Just Wouldn't Die.
I just realized that I had a tendency to pick languages to play with in
my college days (now a decade and a half past) that Just Wouldn't Die:
Tcl: THE Command Language, bar none.
FORTH: THE Embedded Language, bar none.
LISP, Scheme: Lovably Insane, Still Programmable.
C, FORTRAN: Die, damnit, DIE! 8-)
> It is a pitty but i think a reality. I just saw it too many times in
> the past (Sather, Eiffel, Oberon, Tower-Java for example). And i'm not
> that stupid to do a wrong decision again with this giant warning signs
> on the wall.
What, the ones that scream "WATCH OUT FOR FALLING INTEREST"? 8-)
All the languages you mention suffered for their focus on a niche area
that proved to be too narrow to sustain the interest of even their
most rabid fans. IMO, Tcl is too pragmatic a language for that to
happen any time soon, if ever.
> So i have to find and fix my python problems as Lua is also is not the
> right tool for my job.
Well, good luck to you then.
- Adrian
EKB
the appearance of www.tcl.tk. I agree, that's not a very useful web
site. [To everyone: Do any regular Tcler's use it?]
I use two sources. For day-to-day work, I use the help file that's
distributed with ActiveTcl. As someone else pointed out, the (very
large) number of ActiveTcl extensions is listed here:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/ActiveTcl/8.4/at.pkg_index.html
The other source is the tcler's wiki,
There's also the Tcl Cookbook page at ActiveState, which looks like a
rich source, but which I don't use, because I find what I need
elsewhere:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Tcl
Tcl/Tk is an actively developed language and has a thriving community.
I find it to be a very productive language to use, in part because of
the core language and in part because of the many useful extensions.
Paul Whitfield
Exactly the two resources I use most for reference!
I would add http://www.tclscripting.com as a good source
of tips/articles.
And finally this news group for anything I can not discover
myself!
So to answer your question: No I rarely look at www.tcl.tk -
however looking at the web site I fail to see what is "wrong"
with it.
Comparing it to the page at python.org, the main difference
I can see is that the python page looks "more modern".
Regards
Paul
Regards
Paul.
Gerald W. Lester
> Well, it's up to you, but I think you're putting too much stock into
> the appearance of www.tcl.tk. I agree, that's not a very useful web
> site. [To everyone: Do any regular Tcler's use it?]
Sure, that is the link to the Tcl/Tk Conferences!
--
+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Gerald W. Lester |
|"The man who fights for his ideals is the man who is alive." - Cervantes|
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Eckhard Lehmann
llothar wrote:
> > Is there a particular extension or functionality you're looking for?
>
> No but everytime i made decisions about what tool to use i want to look
> at what does already exist.
We all know about Tcl's image problem which involves www.tcl.tk, the
wiki style and the lack of a repository list. Unfortunately nobody
descents from heaven and fixes those issues...
But Tcl is *not* dead. It is not as popular as an all-purpose language
(like slow-python), but it serves some niches quite well.
To be concrete, it serves the niche that you are looking for, *best* of
everything available - at least afaik. And regarding the
general-purpose thing, you won't find any functional differences.
> It is a pitty but i think a reality. I just saw it too many times in
> the past (Sather, Eiffel, Oberon, Tower-Java for example). And i'm not
> that stupid to do a wrong decision again with this giant warning signs
> on the wall.
>
> So i have to find and fix my python problems as Lua is also is not the
Have fun ;)
Eckhard
Eckhard Lehmann
lvi...@gmail.com wrote:
> This is one area of the community where volunteers could make a difference
> without having to write a single line of C or Tcl code.
[...]
Exactly *this* is the problem, presumably - Tcl'ers like more to code
than to design a website... ;-)
Does anyone know a - possibly female or otherwise aestetics skilled -
person who would be interrested in this kind of work?
I don't want to be the initiator, but I'd like to contribute,
definitely...
Eckhard
Larry W. Virden
I know you are making a joke, but the weird thing is that when people
put a plea out for tclers to work on the large number of bugs, or the
request to update the documentation with examples, or requests to
provide code that demonstrates various commands, we generally get
postings saying "oh, but we don't program in C" or "we are not good
enough programmers to do that". And when we ask for people to update
web sites, we generally get dead silence...
So basically, 90+% of the community either isn't reading this newsgroup
(quite possible), can't program or write, or don't have an interest in
contributing back.
There are dozens of people who write code, submit bug reports, etc. It
is so great to see them do so. However, in theory, there are many more
people out there using tcl than who are writing code, submitting bug
fixes, reporting typos and grammer problems, etc. The more community
involvment, the better Tcl will become.
Robert Hicks
Some of them are really excellent. Whoever is in *charge* of the tcl.tk
site could just browse through there and pick a more modern one and run
with it.
I picked one for TclHttpd so that it would present a more polished
face.
Robert
Robert Hicks
Kaitzschu
>> Tcl'ers like more to code than to design a website... ;-)
>
> So basically, 90+% of the community either isn't reading this newsgroup
> (quite possible), can't program or write, or don't have an interest in
> contributing back.
Or simply don't have enough faith in their skills. I bet everyone has been
in a situation where "his/her best" just isn't "good enough". When that
happens once, twice, three times too many.. well, it makes people scared;
none wishes to sweat just to be informed "That sucks like Microsoft vacuum
cleaner doesn't!"
And even without those prior setbacks there is (now I don't know whether
this applies globally or is it just part of Finnish mentality) this huge
barrier called 'volunteering'. People can do stuff, people just don't want
to take the responsibility. One could write a new web site for tcl.tk but
none would want to take the blame when the design is still lousy.
So in short: some people do want to give back to the community, but most
of these aren't interested in taking the step between "being able" and
"being publicly available for humiliation after their contribution has
been judged as insufficient".
I, personally, don't have any skills to lack faith of :)
--
-Kaitzschu
s="TCL ";while true;do echo -en "\r$s";s=${s:1:${#s}}${s:0:1};sleep .1;done
David N. Welton
> llothar wrote:
>
>>>Is there a particular extension or functionality you're looking for?
>>
>>No but everytime i made decisions about what tool to use i want to look
>>at what does already exist.
>
>
> We all know about Tcl's image problem which involves www.tcl.tk, the
> wiki style and the lack of a repository list. Unfortunately nobody
> descents from heaven and fixes those issues...
I agree that Tcl has a lot of problems, but to set the record straight,
www.tcl.tk has actually *improved* a lot since Mark Roseman et al. sat
down and cleaned it up some. Not to say it couldn't be even better, but
compared with this:
it's really not that different. Ruby is all the rage right now, and, as
they say in Italy, this is a real "fist in the eye":
(although this is nice and flashy: http://www.rubyonrails.org/ )
The problem isn't the web site, it's the static/dwindling community, but
I've already gone over my opinions numerous times. Just thought I'd
stick up for Mark and his redesign of the web site!
--
David N. Welton
- http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Linux, Open Source Consulting
- http://www.dedasys.com/
Robert Hicks
for the community to mock me. : )
Robert
lvi...@gmail.com
According to Kaitzschu <kait...@kaitzschu.cjb.net.nospam.plz.invalid>:
:So in short: some people do want to give back to the community, but most
:"being publicly available for humiliation after their contribution has
:been judged as insufficient".
I don't see too many people getting humiliated for contributing. It happens
occasionally, but in general, the Tcl community is pretty gentle... at
least if the contributor does so without too much ego/anger/aggression.
:I, personally, don't have any skills to lack faith of :)
Hmm - you can read the newsgroup, right? Can you read the reference pages
(either with man or a web browser)? If so, how about submitting suggested
page improvements when there are typos, examples which don't work, etc.?