Tile/X11--which theme do you use and why?
Kevin Walzer
verison of one of my programs. Right now it's Clam, but I'm not sure I
want to stick with this. Are there themes that others like better, i.e.
"revitalized," or one of the pixmap themes (platik or keramik)? Opinions
welcome.
--
Kevin Walzer
iReveal: File Search Tool
http://www.wordtech-software.com
Jochem Huhmann
> I'm trying to decide which Tile theme to use as the default in the Linux
> verison of one of my programs. Right now it's Clam, but I'm not sure I
> want to stick with this. Are there themes that others like better, i.e.
> "revitalized," or one of the pixmap themes (platik or keramik)? Opinions
> welcome.
I'm quite sure that most users on Linux won't like any of these... Have
you considered to use gnocl instead of Tk for the GUI on Linux? This
uses Gtk widgets and therefore the Gtk/Gnome theme the user has
selected.
On the other hand, there's no shortage of native file find apps on Linux
(even the plain gnome-find is quite good, not to speak of things like
Beagle), so it might be a moot point.
Jochem
--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Michael Schlenker
> Kevin Walzer <s...@wordtech-software.com> writes:
>
>> I'm trying to decide which Tile theme to use as the default in the Linux
>> verison of one of my programs. Right now it's Clam, but I'm not sure I
>> want to stick with this. Are there themes that others like better, i.e.
>> "revitalized," or one of the pixmap themes (platik or keramik)? Opinions
>> welcome.
>
> I'm quite sure that most users on Linux won't like any of these... Have
> you considered to use gnocl instead of Tk for the GUI on Linux? This
> uses Gtk widgets and therefore the Gtk/Gnome theme the user has
> selected.
>
> On the other hand, there's no shortage of native file find apps on Linux
> (even the plain gnome-find is quite good, not to speak of things like
> Beagle), so it might be a moot point.
>
I like Clam or keramik just fine, but Jochem has a point in saying: None
of them will satisfy most Linux users. The typical X11 problem: There
isn't a single standard for look and feel, there are dozens...
Jochems hint about gnocl is valid if a user uses Gnome, if he uses KDE
the widgets will look gtkish which is wrong for KDE. For KDE one could
probably use the QT tile theme (don't know how polished/working it is
with current tile versions).
So ask yourself if you want to mimick a specific desktop/window
manager/theme or if you just want to make the app look good.
Michael
Eckhard Lehmann
Kevin Walzer wrote:
> I'm trying to decide which Tile theme to use as the default in the Linux
> verison of one of my programs. Right now it's Clam, but I'm not sure I
> want to stick with this. Are there themes that others like better, i.e.
> "revitalized," or one of the pixmap themes (platik or keramik)? Opinions
> welcome.
Let the user choose ;-). As default I use clam as well - it is the most
compatible with the "smooth & polished interface" trend we have
nowadays.
Eckhard
Eckhard Lehmann
Jochem Huhmann wrote:
> I'm quite sure that most users on Linux won't like any of these... Have
> you considered to use gnocl instead of Tk for the GUI on Linux? This
> uses Gtk widgets and therefore the Gtk/Gnome theme the user has
> selected.
Gnocl goes a completely different way than tile. If you use this *and*
want to be platform independent, you have to develop two versions of
the same program - the API's are completely different.
A much better approach would be to develop a theme for tile, that is
compatible with the Gnome default one (which is "clearlooks" right
now). That is relatively easy as far as I consider, when the pixmaps
are available...
Eckhard
Jeff Hobbs
> Kevin Walzer <s...@wordtech-software.com> writes:
>
>> I'm trying to decide which Tile theme to use as the default in the Linux
>> verison of one of my programs. Right now it's Clam, but I'm not sure I
>> want to stick with this. Are there themes that others like better, i.e.
>> "revitalized," or one of the pixmap themes (platik or keramik)? Opinions
>> welcome.
>
> I'm quite sure that most users on Linux won't like any of these... Have
> you considered to use gnocl instead of Tk for the GUI on Linux? This
> uses Gtk widgets and therefore the Gtk/Gnome theme the user has
> selected.
>
> On the other hand, there's no shortage of native file find apps on Linux
> (even the plain gnome-find is quite good, not to speak of things like
> Beagle), so it might be a moot point.
It's moot IMO as gtk isn't "standard". I use a KDE desktop, and
gtk apps look "wrong" on it. As to the original question, I
slightly favor clam overall, although I would adjust some
subelements.
--
Jeff Hobbs, The Tcl Guy
http://www.ActiveState.com/, a division of Sophos
Jochem Huhmann
> It's moot IMO as gtk isn't "standard". I use a KDE desktop, and
> gtk apps look "wrong" on it.
True. But in my experiences most Linux users either use KDE or Gnome and
applications fitting in with none of both have not even half of a chance
to be really liked.
Jochem Huhmann
> Jochem Huhmann wrote:
>> I'm quite sure that most users on Linux won't like any of these... Have
>> you considered to use gnocl instead of Tk for the GUI on Linux? This
>> uses Gtk widgets and therefore the Gtk/Gnome theme the user has
>> selected.
>
> Gnocl goes a completely different way than tile. If you use this *and*
> want to be platform independent, you have to develop two versions of
> the same program - the API's are completely different.
The API's are different, but not completely different. Depending on how
complex your GUI is, this does not have to mean a complete different
program.
Eckhard Lehmann
Jochem Huhmann wrote:
> The API's are different, but not completely different. Depending on how
> complex your GUI is, this does not have to mean a complete different
> program.
GUI code in my programs is not too complex, but it occupies usually the
most lines. I would throw away a huge advantage of Tcl/Tk if I made the
programs dependent on platform dependent libraries. And - take the
button for instance, you would need indeed one version with -command
and one with -onClicked.
Nevertheless, Gnocl is a great extension if you want to stick to Tcl
and don't want/need to be platform independend. I'd like to see more
Gnome specific support though (gconf, etc...).
BTW, Tk together with tile looks great - especially compared to
Java/Swing :-).
Eckhard
Kevin Walzer
> Jeff Hobbs <je...@activestate.com> writes:
>
>> It's moot IMO as gtk isn't "standard". I use a KDE desktop, and
>> gtk apps look "wrong" on it.
>
> True. But in my experiences most Linux users either use KDE or Gnome and
> applications fitting in with none of both have not even half of a chance
> to be really liked.
>
>
> Jochem
>
target Linux as a platform: the API's, the desktop environments and
environments are simply too diverse to make everyone happy from the
standpoint of "the user experience."
REALBasic uses GTK as its widget set. Runtime Revolution emulates Motif.
I believe Java/Swing also emulates GTK? Certainly with Tcl/Tk and Tile
it's possible to emulate Motif to varying degrees. The plastik and
keramik themes might fit in some environments, but not others.
In the absence of a more compelling or simpler alternative, looks like
I'll just stick with Clam. Thanks to everyone for their feedback.
Jochem Huhmann
> Jochem Huhmann wrote:
>
>> The API's are different, but not completely different. Depending on how
>> complex your GUI is, this does not have to mean a complete different
>> program.
>
> GUI code in my programs is not too complex, but it occupies usually the
> most lines. I would throw away a huge advantage of Tcl/Tk if I made the
> programs dependent on platform dependent libraries. And - take the
> button for instance, you would need indeed one version with -command
> and one with -onClicked.
Well, you can wrap code around that to abstract from such minor
differences. It starts to get ugly only when you're using widgets which
are too different and complex to do this in a straight way.
> Nevertheless, Gnocl is a great extension if you want to stick to Tcl
> and don't want/need to be platform independend. I'd like to see more
> Gnome specific support though (gconf, etc...).
gconf is supported in Gnocl.
Eckhard Lehmann
Kevin Walzer wrote:
> This is one reason, I suspect, why many commercial developers don't
> target Linux as a platform: the API's, the desktop environments and
> environments are simply too diverse to make everyone happy from the
> standpoint of "the user experience."
Agreed, although I have the feeling that everything leans towards Gnome
and GTK. IMO it has as well the better structure in terms of modularity
- and the better look & feel. But that's just my opinion ;-).
Another hint, I have seen it in an application before: You could
display the theme selection dialog to the user right when (s)he runs
the application the first time - together with a preview. That way, the
user can choose his personal look & feel before the app starts- and he
knows from the beginning that he can change the style. When he runs
KDE, he might prefer the plastik or keramik theme - and on Gnome he
wants clam, probably.
That is how I would do it...
Eckhard
Eckhard Lehmann
> differences. It starts to get ugly only when you're using widgets which
> are too different and complex to do this in a straight way.
I am sure that the differences get major in the details...
And you still need two versions of the same code, no matter whether you
call it "wrap around that" or "sourcing a different file" or anyhow
else ;-).
Eckhard
Jochem Huhmann
>> True. But in my experiences most Linux users either use KDE or Gnome and
>> applications fitting in with none of both have not even half of a chance
>> to be really liked.
>>
>>
>> Jochem
>>
> This is one reason, I suspect, why many commercial developers don't
> target Linux as a platform: the API's, the desktop environments and
> environments are simply too diverse to make everyone happy from the
> standpoint of "the user experience."
There are many reasons for Linux not being targeted by commercial
developers and this is one of them. Still, targeting half of the user
base seems better than missing it completely.
> In the absence of a more compelling or simpler alternative, looks like
> I'll just stick with Clam. Thanks to everyone for their feedback.
Wishing you the very best,
Donal K. Fellows
> When he runs KDE, he might prefer the plastik or keramik theme - and
> on Gnome he wants clam, probably.
Actually, the correct way is for the OS vendor to supply a version of
Ttk customized so that it automatically picks out a theme that matches
the user's desktop. :-)
Donal.
Eckhard Lehmann
Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> Actually, the correct way is for the OS vendor to supply a version of
> Ttk customized so that it automatically picks out a theme that matches
> the user's desktop. :-)
Absolutely - I'll tell this the Gnome hackers :-)
Eckhard