Something like Visual Assist for Eclipse
shimo...@gmail.com
At work I am using Visual Studio 2005 with visual assist which can be
downloaded from http://www.wholetomato.com
Since I am learning Java when home and using Eclipse IDE I was hoping
to find something like VA (Visual Assist) for Eclipse. It's not that
I'm spoiled. I have started programming 13 years ago and had the chance
to build big software projects using norton commander text editor and
watcom compiler. So I know exactly how it feels like working without an
IDE.. But now that I got used to VA at work, I can't imagine my life
without it ;-)
Sure that basic features in Visual Studio 2005 intellisense and in
Eclipse IDE are suffice for making big software. But without VA it's
simply not it. Nuff said.
So if anyone knows of good inellisense for Eclipse, I'd love knowing
about it.
Thanks in advance,
Shimon
Rhino
<shimo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148054553.0...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
learn it, just to reply to this post. But if it is doing code completions or
suggesting ways of avoiding compiler warnings, Eclipse already does that
without any plugins.
For example, if you override a method in your Java program and have the
compiler set to flag all potentional problems as warnings, you will get a
warning if you haven't written an @Override annotation for the overridden
method. The offending method will be underlined in yellow and the yellow
"previous problem" and "next problem" arrows will take you to all such lines
of code. If you are anywhere on the offending line of code, you can press
CTRL-1 and Eclipse will offer a variety of suggestions. One suggestion will
be that you add an @Override annotation and if you click on that suggestion,
Eclipse will add the anotation for you.
Why don't you give CTRL-1 a try for whatever lines of code you don't like
and see if it does what Visual Assist does? I'm not sure what versions of
Eclipse have the CTRL-1 functionality but it is certainly available as of
3.1.1, maybe considerably earlier.
--
Rhino
Shimon Shvartsbroit
The problem isn't about errors and warnings. VA enables you to go
quickly through your code, it has automated text. It put {} braces
automatically whenever needed. There are short cuts for many things. It
usually gives you best candidates for what you've written. Imagine
you're calling frequent methods or members, all you need is to type
some (maybe even one) of their letters and it gives you the best
possible choices to choose from.
When doing software developing I find it very usefull to use
descriptive method and member names, doesn't matter how long they are.
Imagine you have function like:
"weAreAboutToTrySomeOfVisualAssistFeatures()". Sometimes I don't even
remember method names, but remember some of their name. That's all I
need for VA to suggest it to me. You could write part of the name or
use acronyms. Few key strokes and viola!! you got it :)
check also http://www.wholetomato.com/products/features/acronym.html
http://www.codeproject.com/showcase/VisualAssistX.asp is a great page
describing some of most frequent uses of VA.
VA is one of those things that hard to explain to other people. But
once you start using it will be hard to stop.
Shimon
Rhino
"Shimon Shvartsbroit" <shimo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148062274.8...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As I feared, my comments weren't very helpful :-)
--
Rhino
Oliver Wong
"Shimon Shvartsbroit" <shimo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148062274.8...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.wholetomato.com/products/features.html
Almost everything I saw there, Eclipse has by default.
> VA enables you to go
> quickly through your code,
Eclipse has this by default.
> it has automated text.
Don't know what this means.
> It put {} braces
> automatically whenever needed.
Eclipse has this by default.
> There are short cuts for many things.
Eclipse has this by default.
> It
> usually gives you best candidates for what you've written.
Eclipse has this by default.
> Imagine
> you're calling frequent methods or members, all you need is to type
> some (maybe even one) of their letters and it gives you the best
> possible choices to choose from.
Eclipse has this by default.
>
> When doing software developing I find it very usefull to use
> descriptive method and member names, doesn't matter how long they are.
> Imagine you have function like:
> "weAreAboutToTrySomeOfVisualAssistFeatures()". Sometimes I don't even
> remember method names, but remember some of their name. That's all I
> need for VA to suggest it to me. You could write part of the name or
> use acronyms. Few key strokes and viola!! you got it :)
Okay, Eclipse doesn't let you type in the acronym, AFAIK. Instead,
you're expected to type in the prefix. So "sb" would not give you a method
called "setBounds", but "se" would.
- Oliver
Shimon Shvartsbroit
Eclipse. But it is not advanced as VA is, IMHO. The fact is, for me at
least, that I still feel "naked" when working without VA. I'm not a
sales man, so it's hard for me to explain all the reasons why Eclipse
fails where VA wins big time :-) The best thing I could say is to try
VA for some projects in C++ and then get back to Eclipse. Only then,
you will see exactly what I mean.
VA gives me the ability to find everyhing I need in big projects in
matter of seconds. I can click on a variable and see it's definition.
If it's a const I can see it's value. I can see that information
without going to definion. VA supplies some kind of a docking window..
Again, there are many features that I find it hard to point my fingure
on them, but they do exist.
And remember, I wouldn't be posting in this forum if I had found
Eclipse features anywhere equal to VA's ;-)
Regards,
Shimon
Jeffrey Schwab
Sounds like any dedicated file-type mode in Emacs or Vim.
Oliver Wong
> Of course that eclipse has some of the things I've mentioned. I like
> Eclipse. But it is not advanced as VA is, IMHO. The fact is, for me at
> least, that I still feel "naked" when working without VA. I'm not a
> sales man, so it's hard for me to explain all the reasons why Eclipse
> fails where VA wins big time :-) The best thing I could say is to try
> VA for some projects in C++ and then get back to Eclipse. Only then,
> you will see exactly what I mean.
I don't program in C++, so I don't expect this to happen any time soon,
unfortunately.
>
> VA gives me the ability to find everyhing I need in big projects in
> matter of seconds. I can click on a variable and see it's definition.
CTRL-click to do that in Eclipse.
> If it's a const I can see it's value.
Not sure that this will always work in Java. Consider the following
code:
final int = Random.nextInt();
However, I could see a case made for compiler-time constant propagation
analysis being built into JDT so that if the value of an expression was
known at compile time, it could be displayed somewhere, somehow.
> I can see that information
> without going to definion. VA supplies some kind of a docking window..
Eclipse has docking windows too. They're called "views".
> Again, there are many features that I find it hard to point my fingure
> on them, but they do exist.
>
> And remember, I wouldn't be posting in this forum if I had found
> Eclipse features anywhere equal to VA's ;-)
Right, fair enough. I was just making sure this wasn't a case of the
features already being present, but that you did not know about them.
- Oliver
dimitar
but it's not very expensive either.
Last time I've used VA was 2004 and I didn't notice any functionality
that was missing in IDEA.
I don't want to start a flame war, so please do not post in this thread
if what you have to say is not relevant to the thread topic.
Dale King
> Of course that eclipse has some of the things I've mentioned. I like
> Eclipse. But it is not advanced as VA is, IMHO. The fact is, for me at
> least, that I still feel "naked" when working without VA. I'm not a
> sales man, so it's hard for me to explain all the reasons why Eclipse
> fails where VA wins big time :-) The best thing I could say is to try
> VA for some projects in C++ and then get back to Eclipse. Only then,
> you will see exactly what I mean.
You have to be more specific than that.
> VA gives me the ability to find everyhing I need in big projects in
> matter of seconds.
So does Eclipse (at least for Java, I've had less successful results in
C/C++). F3 for open declaration is handy. F4 for open hierarchy is good
too. Ctrl-shift-G finds all references in the workspace.
> I can click on a variable and see it's definition.
> If it's a const I can see it's value. I can see that information
> without going to definion. VA supplies some kind of a docking window..
Sounds exactly like the Declaration View in Eclipse. Try Windows -> Show
View -> Declaration or <alt><shift>Q,D. Another handy view is the
JavaDoc view.
> Again, there are many features that I find it hard to point my fingure
> on them, but they do exist.
>
> And remember, I wouldn't be posting in this forum if I had found
> Eclipse features anywhere equal to VA's ;-)
I suspect that it is more that you haven't found the features rather
than they are not equal.
I'm not saying that VA may have some better features, but if it does we
would like to know what they are so they can be suggested to the Eclipse
team which is very good about adding things.
--
Dale King
Shimon Shvartsbroit
Dale, I've been already familiar with most features that you have
mentioned, except ALT+SHIFT+Q, which is handy. I bet I still have
plenty to learn about proper and effecient usage of Eclipse. I also
think that the best suggestion would be to reference Eclipse team to
links about VA and ask them to try it out. I'm sure they will say
"ohh.. that's so cool! we must must add this feature to eclipse".
Thank you all for the posts.
Shimon
Dale King
I doubt that you get much traction, just saying go check this out. You
would get much better reaction if you talked about specific features and
how they fit into Eclipse and making sure that Eclipse doesn't already
have something similar, which is why I told you to be more specific.
--
Dale King
Shimon Shvartsbroit
Dale,
I would love doing so. But, as a new java developer I am not aware of
which features are already available in Eclipse or external plugins.
Other than that, I may not be aware of java development needs. Thus I
don't think I'm the right man for the job. That's why I encourage you,
the people who work with java much more than I do, maybe even you work
with java on daily basis, to check the links I've given and hopefully
to imrpove the development in java for all of us.
Best regards,
Shimon
Dale King
> Dale King wrote:
>> Shimon Shvartsbroit wrote:
>>> Dimitar, thanks for the reference. I will give IDEA a shot.
>>> Dale, I've been already familiar with most features that you have
>>> mentioned, except ALT+SHIFT+Q, which is handy. I bet I still have
>>> plenty to learn about proper and effecient usage of Eclipse. I also
>>> think that the best suggestion would be to reference Eclipse team to
>>> links about VA and ask them to try it out. I'm sure they will say
>>> "ohh.. that's so cool! we must must add this feature to eclipse".
>> I doubt that you get much traction, just saying go check this out. You
>> would get much better reaction if you talked about specific features and
>> how they fit into Eclipse and making sure that Eclipse doesn't already
>> have something similar, which is why I told you to be more specific.
>
> which features are already available in Eclipse or external plugins.
> Other than that, I may not be aware of java development needs. Thus I
> don't think I'm the right man for the job. That's why I encourage you,
> the people who work with java much more than I do, maybe even you work
> with java on daily basis, to check the links I've given and hopefully
> to imrpove the development in java for all of us.
So full time java developers are supposed to go check out a C++ tool?
One feature that is worthy of suggesting to Eclipse is the use of
acronyms in code assist. It would be nice to use npe to look up
NullPointerException or more importantly use iae to look up
IllegalArgumentException which has many others with common prefix.
Another thing I just recently stumbled onto that seems similar to a VA
feature is pressing ctrl-O which pops up a quick overview of the class.
It also provides a handy way to navigate around the class when the
editor is maximized.
Looking through the VA features, I don't really see anything else that
is not already in Eclipse although not necessarily as automated as in VA
(You have to hit ctrl-space to see completions).
--
Dale King
Oliver Wong
"Dale King" <"DaleWKing [at]gmail [dot] com"> wrote in message
news:F8CdnfjenrgmSujZ...@insightbb.com...
> Shimon Shvartsbroit wrote:
>> Dale King wrote:
>>> Shimon Shvartsbroit wrote:
>>>> I also
>>>> think that the best suggestion would be to reference Eclipse team to
>>>> links about VA and ask them to try it out. I'm sure they will say
>>>> "ohh.. that's so cool! we must must add this feature to eclipse".
>>> You
>>> would get much better reaction if you talked about specific features and
>>> how they fit into Eclipse and making sure that Eclipse doesn't already
>>> have something similar, which is why I told you to be more specific.
>>
>> I encourage you,
>> the people who work with java much more than I do, maybe even you work
>> with java on daily basis, to check the links I've given and hopefully
>> to imrpove the development in java for all of us.
>
> So full time java developers are supposed to go check out a C++ tool?
And possibly learn C++ in the process, so that they can actually realize
the significance of the features that VA is providing.
Our only hope is to find someone who works with both C++ and Java, who
has used both Eclipse and VA, and who can tell us what the differences are.
(Actually, this sounds a lot like a description of the OP.)
As much as I love Eclipse, and would love to see it have all the latest
and greatest features, I'm not willing to spend a few years learning C++ to
the same level to which I know Java, and then spend actual money to buy a
license to use VA, and then play around with VA, all to submit a few RFEs to
the Eclipse team. I suspect many other Eclipse users are in my position as
well.
- Oliver
Dale King
I didn't go quite that far. I only perused the feature list for VA. The
only really valuable thing I saw there was the use of acronyms. I have
submitted an RFE to Eclipse to add the feature.
--
Dale King
Shimon Shvartsbroit
> Shimon Shvartsbroit wrote:
> > Dale King wrote:
> >> Shimon Shvartsbroit wrote:
> >>> Dimitar, thanks for the reference. I will give IDEA a shot.
> >>> Dale, I've been already familiar with most features that you have
> >>> mentioned, except ALT+SHIFT+Q, which is handy. I bet I still have
> >>> plenty to learn about proper and effecient usage of Eclipse. I also
> >>> think that the best suggestion would be to reference Eclipse team to
> >>> links about VA and ask them to try it out. I'm sure they will say
> >>> "ohh.. that's so cool! we must must add this feature to eclipse".
> >> I doubt that you get much traction, just saying go check this out. You
> >> would get much better reaction if you talked about specific features and
> >> how they fit into Eclipse and making sure that Eclipse doesn't already
> >> have something similar, which is why I told you to be more specific.
> >
> > I would love doing so. But, as a new java developer I am not aware of
> > which features are already available in Eclipse or external plugins.
> > Other than that, I may not be aware of java development needs. Thus I
> > don't think I'm the right man for the job. That's why I encourage you,
> > the people who work with java much more than I do, maybe even you work
> > with java on daily basis, to check the links I've given and hopefully
> > to imrpove the development in java for all of us.
>
> So full time java developers are supposed to go check out a C++ tool?
You are right. I've had a hidden assumption that some of developers
here are familiar with C++ at have some experience with C++ IDE. I
wouldn't expect full time java developers without prior experience in
C++ to check VA features in C++ IDE.
> One feature that is worthy of suggesting to Eclipse is the use of
> acronyms in code assist. It would be nice to use npe to look up
> NullPointerException or more importantly use iae to look up
> IllegalArgumentException which has many others with common prefix.
>
For what it's worth I can list the VA features I use heavily in C++
development at work:
1). listboxes - you don't have to press ctrl+space. you get the list
automatically. You can type in insensetive chars and with acronyms.
Using that I find name of classes, symbols or methods in no time.
2). you can mark local symbols in bold.
3). you can select text.. if you press "/" it will comment it..
pressing again uncomments in.. you could also press on "*" to make
C-style commenting or uncommenting.
4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via
alt+shift+v the one you want to paste..
The most vaulable feature for me is the auto-suggestions it does while
I am typing.
Let's say I have a class "Widget". In order to use it I need to type
"wi" and enter. Of course it deepends on number of classes that are
within current namespace/package. Remember, no ctrl+space invoved.
It's possible to apply filtering on list-boxes.. ie, see only public,
protected methods and more..
> Another thing I just recently stumbled onto that seems similar to a VA
> feature is pressing ctrl-O which pops up a quick overview of the class.
> It also provides a handy way to navigate around the class when the
> editor is maximized.
>
> Looking through the VA features, I don't really see anything else that
> is not already in Eclipse although not necessarily as automated as in VA
> (You have to hit ctrl-space to see completions).
Again, the question is ctrl-space or not ctrl-space.. I personally
prefer the suggestion to be done automatically without pressing on
special keys, like on ctrl-space.
Shimon
> --
> Dale King
Chris Uppal
> 2). you can mark local symbols in bold.
That's a good idea. VA makers are to be commended.
For some reason IDE designers seem to think that we'll be better programmers if
we have it pointed out to us that
23
is a constant, thus preventing confusion with variables like:
ageInMonths
But they never even /try/ to help us distinguish between the things that
matter: local vs. non-local; constant vs. variable; static vs. non-static; and
so on. So the screen ends up a bewildering Technicolor mess, but hardly
includes any more useful information than would be conveyed by simple black and
white.
Why /do/ IDE designers copy each others' worst ideas ? Who came up with the
idea of using italics for comments ?
Pfah !
-- chris
jmcgill
>
> Pfah !
>
#1. Eclipse is open source.
#2. Sounds like you have an itch that needs scratching.
Dale King
Because most people want them. And all that is customizable in Eclipse.
Go to Java->Editor->Syntax Coloring and you will see that you have a
great deal of flexibility.
Eclipse has some nice ones that I like, such as highlighting static
field and method references differently and using strikethrough for
deprecated items.
--
Dale King
Oliver Wong
"Dale King" <"DaleWKing [at]gmail [dot] com"> wrote in message
>
> Because most people want them. And all that is customizable in Eclipse. Go
> to Java->Editor->Syntax Coloring and you will see that you have a great
> deal of flexibility.
>
> Eclipse has some nice ones that I like, such as highlighting static field
> and method references differently and using strikethrough for deprecated
> items.
Is it possible to export/import the syntax highlighting configuration?
if (yes) {
Is there a site where I can download pre-configured syntax highlighting
settings and import them into my local copy?
} else {
Let me know and I'll submit an RFE.
}
- Oliver
Dale King
I am at least one that is intimately familiar with C++ (although I am
not actually a full-time Java developer). But I am not going to go
download something searching for features.
>> One feature that is worthy of suggesting to Eclipse is the use of
>> acronyms in code assist. It would be nice to use npe to look up
>> NullPointerException or more importantly use iae to look up
>> IllegalArgumentException which has many others with common prefix.
>>
>
> For what it's worth I can list the VA features I use heavily in C++
> development at work:
> 1). listboxes - you don't have to press ctrl+space. you get the list
> automatically. You can type in insensetive chars and with acronyms.
> Using that I find name of classes, symbols or methods in no time.
And as I said Eclipse has that, it's just not doing it automatically,
you have to request it. Frankly, I would not want it automatic as it
would slow things down and keep getting in my way.
> 2). you can mark local symbols in bold.
See Java > Editor > Syntax Coloring where you can customize it how you
want including specifying a style for local symbols.
> 3). you can select text.. if you press "/" it will comment it..
> pressing again uncomments in.. you could also press on "*" to make
> C-style commenting or uncommenting.
In Eclipse it is <ctrl>-/ to toggle // style comments and
<ctrl>-<shift>-/ to add a block comment. To remove the block comment you
have to use <ctrl>-<shift>-\. See the source menu.
> 4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via
> alt+shift+v the one you want to paste..
I've used several programs that had this and I never had any use for it.
It just annoys me.
Another handy feature I recently discovered in Eclipse that has
eliminated much of my use of cut and paste is <alt>-up arrow and <alt>
down arrow. These move a line or lines up or down (indenting them
correctly). If you add a <ctrl> with that then it duplicates the
line(s). <ctrl>-d deletes the current line.
> The most vaulable feature for me is the auto-suggestions it does while
> I am typing.
> Let's say I have a class "Widget". In order to use it I need to type
> "wi" and enter. Of course it depends on number of classes that are
> within current namespace/package. Remember, no ctrl+space involved.
I understand, but Eclipse has the feature it is just not as automatic. I
believe that is because of usability and performance concerns.
> It's possible to apply filtering on list-boxes.. ie, see only public,
> protected methods and more..
It's possible to do some of that in Eclipse. See Java > Editor > Code
Assist. For instance by default it won't show you completions that are
not visible from the current context.
>> Another thing I just recently stumbled onto that seems similar to a VA
>> feature is pressing ctrl-O which pops up a quick overview of the class.
>> It also provides a handy way to navigate around the class when the
>> editor is maximized.
>>
>> Looking through the VA features, I don't really see anything else that
>> is not already in Eclipse although not necessarily as automated as in VA
>> (You have to hit ctrl-space to see completions).
>
> Again, the question is ctrl-space or not ctrl-space.. I personally
> prefer the suggestion to be done automatically without pressing on
> special keys, like on ctrl-space.
Note that Eclipse does support some auto activation of code assist for
example when you hit '.'. You can add other characters if you want.
I don't think you will convince Eclipse to make the code assist always
automatic. I frankly would not want it to do so.
If choosing between more intelligent suggestions and having it
automatic, I chose more intelligence. While I haven't tried VA,
Eclipse's code assist is pretty darn smart. Note that it has entries
besides just identifiers. You can add templates and it gives you
suggestions like add a missing abstract method inherited from an
interface or abstract class.
I really suggest that you look through the menus. There's lots of good
stuff in the source menu. Also take a look at the key bindings in
General > Keys in the preferences and you will find lots of handy things.
--
Dale King
Oliver Wong
"Dale King" <"DaleWKing [at]gmail [dot] com"> wrote in message
> Shimon Shvartsbroit wrote:
>> For what it's worth I can list the VA features I use heavily in C++
>> development at work:
>> 1). listboxes - you don't have to press ctrl+space. you get the list
>> automatically. You can type in insensetive chars and with acronyms.
>> Using that I find name of classes, symbols or methods in no time.
>
> And as I said Eclipse has that, it's just not doing it automatically, you
> have to request it. Frankly, I would not want it automatic as it would
> slow things down and keep getting in my way.
Well, if some people want it to be completely automatic, and others want
it to be not automatic, then how about making it a feature that can be
toggled on or off? Then again, I've see an article saying that one big
problem with OSS is *too much* choice, in the sense that the developers
don't actually bother making design decisions anymore, and just gives flags
to let the user control everything. This might be a step in that direction.
[...]
>> 3). you can select text.. if you press "/" it will comment it..
>> pressing again uncomments in.. you could also press on "*" to make
>> C-style commenting or uncommenting.
>
> In Eclipse it is <ctrl>-/ to toggle // style comments and <ctrl>-<shift>-/
> to add a block comment. To remove the block comment you have to use
> <ctrl>-<shift>-\. See the source menu.
Perhaps Eclipse could have a system to reconfigure the shortcut and key
configurations.
>
>> 4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via
>> alt+shift+v the one you want to paste..
>
> I've used several programs that had this and I never had any use for it.
> It just annoys me.
The only app I've used that has this is Microsoft Office, and you can
disable it. (I did). Again, perhaps Eclipse can offer this as a feature
which can be turned off.
[...]
>
>> The most vaulable feature for me is the auto-suggestions it does while
>> I am typing.
>> Let's say I have a class "Widget". In order to use it I need to type
>> "wi" and enter. Of course it depends on number of classes that are
>> within current namespace/package. Remember, no ctrl+space involved.
>
> I understand, but Eclipse has the feature it is just not as automatic. I
> believe that is because of usability and performance concerns.
If I typed "wi" and pressed enter, and I ended up with the text "Widget"
instead of "wi\n", I'd be very annoyed. However, if I typed "wi", and then
pressed ctrl-space to mean "I don't *REALLY* want 'wi'; rather, I want
something which vaguely sounds like 'wi' and which makes sense in this
context", *then* I'd fully expect "Widget" to appear as one of the
suggestions.
By default, I want Eclipse to do what I say. That is, if I typed in
something, that's what I want typed in, and not something else. It's only
when I do key-combinations which don't lead to the the emitting of text
(e.g. ctrl-anything) that I'd want Eclipse to jump in and do all sorts of
magic for me.
>
>> It's possible to apply filtering on list-boxes.. ie, see only public,
>> protected methods and more..
>
> It's possible to do some of that in Eclipse. See Java > Editor > Code
> Assist. For instance by default it won't show you completions that are not
> visible from the current context.
I think Eclipse is foregoing the user-configurable filters and is
instead using some sort of "AI" to determine what to show you. Based on my
experience (I haven't looked at the source code), I'm guessing its
suggestions are based on type checking (e.g. if you're typing in something
which will be used as a parameter to a method which expects a string, the
first few choices will be local variables and fields which are Strings, or
methods which extend string), and most-recently-used.
- Oliver
Dale King
>
> "Dale King" <"DaleWKing [at]gmail [dot] com"> wrote in message
> news:NcudnVmEn_C_zOrZ...@insightbb.com...
>> Shimon Shvartsbroit wrote:
>
>>> For what it's worth I can list the VA features I use heavily in C++
>>> development at work:
>>> 1). listboxes - you don't have to press ctrl+space. you get the list
>>> automatically. You can type in insensetive chars and with acronyms.
>>> Using that I find name of classes, symbols or methods in no time.
>>
>> And as I said Eclipse has that, it's just not doing it automatically,
>> you have to request it. Frankly, I would not want it automatic as it
>> would slow things down and keep getting in my way.
>
> Well, if some people want it to be completely automatic, and others
> want it to be not automatic, then how about making it a feature that can
> be toggled on or off? Then again, I've see an article saying that one
> big problem with OSS is *too much* choice, in the sense that the
> developers don't actually bother making design decisions anymore, and
> just gives flags to let the user control everything. This might be a
> step in that direction.
My point is that it would take a lot of throughput to make it automatic
without totally bogging things down. I would rather they concentrate on
making it good rather than fast enough to be constantly getting in your
face on every keystroke.
> [...]
>>> 3). you can select text.. if you press "/" it will comment it..
>>> pressing again uncomments in.. you could also press on "*" to make
>>> C-style commenting or uncommenting.
>>
>> In Eclipse it is <ctrl>-/ to toggle // style comments and
>> <ctrl>-<shift>-/ to add a block comment. To remove the block comment
>> you have to use <ctrl>-<shift>-\. See the source menu.
>
> Perhaps Eclipse could have a system to reconfigure the shortcut and
> key configurations.
It does of course. And you can export and import the key configurations.
>>> 4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via
>>> alt+shift+v the one you want to paste..
>>
>> I've used several programs that had this and I never had any use for
>> it. It just annoys me.
>
> The only app I've used that has this is Microsoft Office, and you can
> disable it. (I did). Again, perhaps Eclipse can offer this as a feature
> which can be turned off.
But it gets down to priorities. They don't have enough resources to
implement everything. Of course you can influence those priorities by
voting for bugs/enhancements. If enough people ask for it they will work
on it. I don't even see an RFE for the feature so it must not be high on
anyone's list.
>>> It's possible to apply filtering on list-boxes.. ie, see only public,
>>> protected methods and more..
>>
>> It's possible to do some of that in Eclipse. See Java > Editor > Code
>> Assist. For instance by default it won't show you completions that are
>> not visible from the current context.
>
> I think Eclipse is foregoing the user-configurable filters and is
> instead using some sort of "AI" to determine what to show you. Based on
> my experience (I haven't looked at the source code), I'm guessing its
> suggestions are based on type checking (e.g. if you're typing in
> something which will be used as a parameter to a method which expects a
> string, the first few choices will be local variables and fields which
> are Strings, or methods which extend string), and most-recently-used.
It has lots of intelligence to try to show you the most likely choices
and yes it does do it based on the type needed in the expression. Not
only parameters but when assigning to a variable it will present choices
of the correct type first. This is where I care more about the code
assist being smarter rather than more automatic.
--
Dale King
Dale King
I don't see any way to export it.
--
Dale King
Chris Uppal
> My point is that it would take a lot of throughput to make it automatic
> without totally bogging things down. I would rather they concentrate on
> making it good rather than fast enough to be constantly getting in your
> face on every keystroke.
Agreed. The IDE I use (not Java) has recently added "in-your-face" code
completion, and it drives me nuts. It's possible to turn it off, but there's
no real equivalent of control-space for on-demand completion. I'll have to
add it myself, but so far I'm just sticking with the previous version (though
not only because of code-completion).
-- chris
Chris Uppal
> Eclipse has some nice ones that I like, such as highlighting static
> field and method references differently and using strikethrough for
> deprecated items.
Now that is good. In fact they've added some worthwhile options that I had
missed.
Pity the default is still to waste the power of highlighing, though.
-- chris
John English
> By default, I want Eclipse to do what I say. That is, if I typed in
> something, that's what I want typed in, and not something else. It's
> only when I do key-combinations which don't lead to the the emitting of
> text (e.g. ctrl-anything) that I'd want Eclipse to jump in and do all
> sorts of magic for me.
One of the things I hated about Eclipse (and it took me a while to figure
out how to disable it!) is the "smart editing" support which means that if
you type ", it inserts "" (with an automatic string closer). For example,
if you try to change "abcd" to "ab"+foo+"cd" by typing in between b and c,
you end up spending most of your time deleting the extra quotes Eclipse
puts in, waiting while it underlines the whole file in red to indicate
an error, waiting while it decides it's OK and turns off the underlining
after you delete the crud. Then you decide you want a linebreak, so you
press Enter, and clever ol' Eclipse decides you must want to move the
cursor to the end of the line rather than do the obvious...
A pox on all "intelligent" editor designers!
</rant>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
John English | mailto:j...@brighton.ac.uk
Senior Lecturer | http://www.it.bton.ac.uk/staff/je
School of Computing & MIS | "Those who don't know their history
University of Brighton | are condemned to relive it" (Santayana)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
smartsup...@mail.com
http://www30.webSamba.com/SmartStudio
This may be help you.
Now I always use EnergyKey, it helps me so much in my work.
Shimon Shvartsbroit
Looks promising :-)
>
> > 3). you can select text.. if you press "/" it will comment it..
> > pressing again uncomments in.. you could also press on "*" to make
> > C-style commenting or uncommenting.
>
> In Eclipse it is <ctrl>-/ to toggle // style comments and
> <ctrl>-<shift>-/ to add a block comment. To remove the block comment you
> have to use <ctrl>-<shift>-\. See the source menu.
>
> > 4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via
> > alt+shift+v the one you want to paste..
>
> I've used several programs that had this and I never had any use for it.
> It just annoys me.
What's annoying? you can continue using copy&cut&paste as you've used
to. But in case you want you can have a listbox of your clipboard and
past something you've copied into clipboard previously. if you don't
use it, there's nothing to be annoyed about. as they say "you don't
need to pay for the things you don't use".
>
> Another handy feature I recently discovered in Eclipse that has
> eliminated much of my use of cut and paste is <alt>-up arrow and <alt>
> down arrow. These move a line or lines up or down (indenting them
> correctly). If you add a <ctrl> with that then it duplicates the
> line(s). <ctrl>-d deletes the current line.
Good to know, thanks for the tip.
>
> > The most vaulable feature for me is the auto-suggestions it does while
> > I am typing.
> > Let's say I have a class "Widget". In order to use it I need to type
> > "wi" and enter. Of course it depends on number of classes that are
> > within current namespace/package. Remember, no ctrl+space involved.
>
> I understand, but Eclipse has the feature it is just not as automatic. I
> believe that is because of usability and performance concerns.
It could be because of the reasons you've mentioned. That should be
possible to overcome this issue, in case it's because of performance
concerns. Regarding the usability, I don't think people find it
un-usefull or unsable because most of chances are that they are not
aware of such feature existence.
>
> > It's possible to apply filtering on list-boxes.. ie, see only public,
> > protected methods and more..
>
> It's possible to do some of that in Eclipse. See Java > Editor > Code
> Assist. For instance by default it won't show you completions that are
> not visible from the current context.
I will check on that next time I run eclipse. Though, I doubt it's like
VA. Since in eclipse, most chances, you statically set your settings.
In VA you can modify your setting each time the list-box appears. But
then again, I can live without it.
>
> >> Another thing I just recently stumbled onto that seems similar to a VA
> >> feature is pressing ctrl-O which pops up a quick overview of the class.
> >> It also provides a handy way to navigate around the class when the
> >> editor is maximized.
You are right. I've tried it. It's very convinient.
> >>
> >> Looking through the VA features, I don't really see anything else that
> >> is not already in Eclipse although not necessarily as automated as in VA
> >> (You have to hit ctrl-space to see completions).
> >
> > Again, the question is ctrl-space or not ctrl-space.. I personally
> > prefer the suggestion to be done automatically without pressing on
> > special keys, like on ctrl-space.
>
> Note that Eclipse does support some auto activation of code assist for
> example when you hit '.'. You can add other characters if you want.
>
> I don't think you will convince Eclipse to make the code assist always
> automatic. I frankly would not want it to do so.
>
> If choosing between more intelligent suggestions and having it
> automatic, I chose more intelligence. While I haven't tried VA,
> Eclipse's code assist is pretty darn smart. Note that it has entries
> besides just identifiers. You can add templates and it gives you
> suggestions like add a missing abstract method inherited from an
> interface or abstract class.
I think there's some kind of misunderstanding. Why need to choose
between intelligent suggestions and having it automatic? Each time VA
suggest code completetition it shows it as a list-box and you can
either choose the suggestion or you could continue typing and VA will
choose it for you. Rememer the choise is only in a listbox, you don't
have to accept it. You could press on escape to turn off listbox for
current suggestion.
I consider it to be 80-20 rule.. I'd rather have it automatic in 80% of
my usage, and in the remaining 20% ,though I think it's much less than
20, I am willing to press on escape to turn it off. So there is no
sacrifice of intelligense. You don't have to use automatic suggestions
when you don't want to. Intelligense stays. I write a lot of code at
work, and usually use descriptive long names when necessary. Using
automatic code completetion saves me a lot of typing time. Remember,
only when the suggestion is good for me, I press on enter key and
accept it.
>
> I really suggest that you look through the menus. There's lots of good
> stuff in the source menu. Also take a look at the key bindings in
> General > Keys in the preferences and you will find lots of handy things.
>
I agree.. It has a lot of great functionallity. I've never claimed it's
bad. I think there are helpfull features in eclipse that it's a shame
they don't appear in visual studio.
Anyway, back to work now.
Regards,
Shimon
smartsup...@mail.com
smart...@yahoo.com
Dale King
> Dale King wrote:
>> Shimon Shvartsbroit wrote:
>>> Dale King wrote:
>>> For what it's worth I can list the VA features I use heavily in C++
>>> development at work:
>>> 1). listboxes - you don't have to press ctrl+space. you get the list
>>> automatically. You can type in insensetive chars and with acronyms.
>>> Using that I find name of classes, symbols or methods in no time.
>> And as I said Eclipse has that, it's just not doing it automatically,
>> you have to request it. Frankly, I would not want it automatic as it
>> would slow things down and keep getting in my way.
>>
>>> alt+shift+v the one you want to paste..
>
>> I've used several programs that had this and I never had any use for it.
>> It just annoys me.
> What's annoying? you can continue using copy&cut&paste as you've used
> to. But in case you want you can have a listbox of your clipboard and
> past something you've copied into clipboard previously. if you don't
> use it, there's nothing to be annoyed about. as they say "you don't
> need to pay for the things you don't use".
That listbox is what is annoying. It pops up and gets in my way.
But there is a choice between the creators of Eclipse exerting effort to
make it fast enough to automatically pop up without being annoying or
working on other features or improving what they have. I would rather
they improve other things.
And you seem to belittle the performance impact of it being automatic. I
used to use Eclipse on a 200 MHz P2 laptop and let me tell you that
performance was important (actually it was quite usable).
> I agree.. It has a lot of great functionallity. I've never claimed it's
> bad. I think there are helpfull features in eclipse that it's a shame
> they don't appear in visual studio.
It always annoys me when Visual Studio is held up as some great IDE.
Most of the Java IDE's surpassed it ages ago.
--
Dale King
Oliver Wong
"Shimon Shvartsbroit" <shimo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148997432....@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Dale King wrote:
>> Shimon Shvartsbroit wrote:
>> > 4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via
>> > alt+shift+v the one you want to paste..
>> I've used several programs that had this and I never had any use for it.
>> It just annoys me.
> What's annoying? you can continue using copy&cut&paste as you've used
> to. But in case you want you can have a listbox of your clipboard and
> past something you've copied into clipboard previously. if you don't
> use it, there's nothing to be annoyed about. as they say "you don't
> need to pay for the things you don't use".
In the implementations I've seen (Microsoft Office), they create a new
pane on the right side of the screen to display all the contents of the
clipboard, taking up valuable screen real estate.
- Oliver
Oliver Wong
"Dale King" <"DaleWKing [at]gmail [dot] com"> wrote in message
K, I did a quick search for "export syntax highlighting" and didn't see
an existing RFE, so I added it:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=144463
- Oliver
Shimon Shvartsbroit
> Shimon Shvartsbroit wrote:
> > Dale King wrote:
> >> Shimon Shvartsbroit wrote:
> >>> Dale King wrote:
> >>> For what it's worth I can list the VA features I use heavily in C++
> >>> development at work:
> >>> 1). listboxes - you don't have to press ctrl+space. you get the list
> >>> automatically. You can type in insensetive chars and with acronyms.
> >>> Using that I find name of classes, symbols or methods in no time.
> >> And as I said Eclipse has that, it's just not doing it automatically,
> >> you have to request it. Frankly, I would not want it automatic as it
> >> would slow things down and keep getting in my way.
> >>
> >>> 4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via
> >>> alt+shift+v the one you want to paste..
> >
> >> I've used several programs that had this and I never had any use for it.
> >> It just annoys me.
> > What's annoying? you can continue using copy&cut&paste as you've used
> > to. But in case you want you can have a listbox of your clipboard and
> > past something you've copied into clipboard previously. if you don't
> > use it, there's nothing to be annoyed about. as they say "you don't
> > need to pay for the things you don't use".
>
> That listbox is what is annoying. It pops up and gets in my way.
Maybe that's matter of taste. I find its advtanages more significant
than the poping.
The question wasn't which feature is more important. Of course it might
be more important for eclipse creators and for the community to have
other features made by eclipse programmers rather than having smart
automatic code suggestions. But that does not mean that automatic code
suggestions is not an important feature by its own. IMHO, it should be
added to some eclipse "wish-list" and let the creators to choose
feature priority or whatever the procedure is.
> And you seem to belittle the performance impact of it being automatic. I
> used to use Eclipse on a 200 MHz P2 laptop and let me tell you that
> performance was important (actually it was quite usable).
In such situation the feature could be disabled.
>
> > I agree.. It has a lot of great functionallity. I've never claimed it's
> > bad. I think there are helpfull features in eclipse that it's a shame
> > they don't appear in visual studio.
>
> It always annoys me when Visual Studio is held up as some great IDE.
> Most of the Java IDE's surpassed it ages ago.
Regardless of which IDE is better. The majority usually prefers less
functionality with GUI
that is simple to use rather than lots of functionality with GUI that
is less straightforward to use. I don't try to claim here which IDE is
superior or which is simpler. Just something to think about ;-)
As final note, it's not fair to claim feature might be not usefull
without really giving it a fair try. Not forget it has to do a lot with
personal preferences of each programmer.
The idea was to make working with eclipse better and more productive.
It wasn't about vstudio vs eclipse.
Shimon
Dale King
> Dale King wrote:
>> Shimon Shvartsbroit wrote:
>> But there is a choice between the creators of Eclipse exerting effort to
>> make it fast enough to automatically pop up without being annoying or
>> working on other features or improving what they have. I would rather
>> they improve other things.
>>
> The question wasn't which feature is more important. Of course it might
> be more important for eclipse creators and for the community to have
> other features made by eclipse programmers rather than having smart
> automatic code suggestions. But that does not mean that automatic code
> suggestions is not an important feature by its own. IMHO, it should be
> added to some eclipse "wish-list" and let the creators to choose
> feature priority or whatever the procedure is.
And you are free to suggest it. Feel free to file an enhancement request
at www.eclipse.org. All I am saying is don't hold your breath.
--
Dale King