The Troubled History Of Aptera...

[jon_banquer]

is a story of what happens when you bring in traditional automotive
executives that have been in the automotive business forever and try
and combine them them with those who have truly revolutionary new
ideas:

http://jalopnik.com/5405602/aptera-founders-ousted-in-boardroom-showdown

[Cydrome Leader]

no suprise here.

What did the person who hired the dinosaur think would happen?

[jon_banquer]

On Apr 1, 7:12 pm, Cydrome Leader <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

Before Paul Wilber destroyed Aptera he destroyed Saleen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saleen

I still l have a few prints of some of the magnesium parts I
programmed and machined for the Saleen S7-R.

[Cydrome Leader]

In rec.crafts.metalworking jon_banquer <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I just came across a copy of a memo from corporate plunderer types that
tookover a company I worked for. It uses rediculous MBA-speak to outline
how to fire all the founders, then the managers then the workers.

[jon_banquer]

What you wrote above is now a very familiar story all across America.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1070490_aptera-collapse-how-why-it-happened-a-complete-chronology

Trica Fambro, electrical engineer, former Aptera employee, and wife of
Aptera founder Steve Fambro:

"Can't take comments from Paul (Wilber) or Marques at face value. If I
hadn't had worked with them and been witness to their actions and read
their board presentations, I may have given them the benefit of the
doubt. It's very sad existence, but they lie as easily as they
breathe. They would have gained the respect of the fans had they been
honest about their xprize performance, refunding the deposits, etc.,
but it was always spin and more spin. Not sure if they know how to do
anything different."

"It was an interesting and awful experience, but I'm hopeful something
good may come of Aptera now that Paul is gone. Paul did finally admit
he made a mistake putting all of Aptera's eggs in the DOE basket, but
now he's going for the humble, fall-on-your-sword, approach with the
press in hopes of getting another job. I'm not surprised a bit."

[Cydrome Leader]

In rec.crafts.metalworking jon_banquer <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:

whoops, somebody forgot a car company exists to make cars, not look for
grant handout money.

[jon_banquer]

On Apr 2, 1:18 pm, Cydrome Leader <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> In rec.crafts.metalworking jon_banquer <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 2, 11:27?am, Cydrome Leader <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> >> In rec.crafts.metalworking jon_banquer <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Apr 1, 7:12?pm, Cydrome Leader <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> >> >> In rec.crafts.metalworking jon_banquer <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > is a story of what happens when you bring in traditional automotive
> >> >> > executives that have been in the automotive business forever and try
> >> >> > and combine them them with those who have truly revolutionary new
> >> >> > ideas:
>
> >> >> >http://jalopnik.com/5405602/aptera-founders-ousted-in-boardroom-showdown
>
> >> >> no suprise here.
>
> >> >> What did the person who hired the dinosaur think would happen?
>
> >> > Before Paul Wilber destroyed Aptera he destroyed Saleen.
>
> >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saleen
>
> >> > I still l have a few prints of some of the magnesium parts I
> >> > programmed and machined for the Saleen S7-R.
>
> >> I just came across a copy of a memo from corporate plunderer types that
> >> tookover a company I worked for. It uses rediculous MBA-speak to outline
> >> how to fire all the founders, then the managers then the workers.
>
> > What you wrote above is now a very familiar story all across America.
>

> >http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1070490_aptera-collapse-how-why-i...

>
> > Trica Fambro, electrical engineer, former Aptera employee, and wife of
> > Aptera founder Steve Fambro:
>
> > "Can't take comments from Paul (Wilber) or Marques at face value. If I
> > hadn't had worked with them and been witness to their actions and read
> > their board presentations, I may have given them the benefit of the
> > doubt. It's very sad existence, but they lie as easily as they
> > breathe. They would have gained the respect of the fans had they been
> > honest about their xprize performance, refunding the deposits, etc.,
> > but it was always spin and more spin. Not sure if they know how to do
> > anything different."
>
> > "It was an interesting and awful experience, but I'm hopeful something
> > good may come of Aptera now that Paul is gone. Paul did finally admit
> > he made a mistake putting all of Aptera's eggs in the DOE basket, but
> > now he's going for the humble, fall-on-your-sword, approach with the
> > press in hopes of getting another job. I'm not surprised a bit."
>
> whoops, somebody forgot a car company exists to make cars, not look for
> grant handout money.

http://venturebeat.com/2010/02/02/ev-maker-aptera-in-disarray-as-founders-fade-away-2/

"While Fambro and Anthony have retained their seats on the Carlsbad,
Calif. company’s board of directors, they have little say in day-to-
day decision making, even though it was their original vision. These
responsibilities have fallen to Aptera’s new CEO Paul Wilbur — one of
the main sources of conflict with the original leadership team (though
it remains uncertain why the rift occurred).

Shortly after Fambro and Anthony departed in November, Aptera
announced major delays in its production schedule."


http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.php?t=5009

"Hi Guys,

I'm not sure how many visit this place anymore, but I thought you'd
find this interesting.

Most of you know the VW 1L concept car was my personal inspiration to
start Aptera. No joke. I analyzed that car, I studied it, I made
MATLAB models. Around 2008/2009 I saw in the press) that the concept
had been being quietly developed and shown at the Dubai auto show,
where VW announced plans to build it. I believed it was real and that
it was a potential threat to Aptera and Chris and I used it and many
other reasons to lobby to begin production and stop screwing around
with Detroit style drinkholders.

Paul convinced the board that it wasn't real, it wasn't a threat and
that it's just Steve and Chris being Steve and Chris. He knew
better...being the builder of the SSR and all :-) "


http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/future-cars/spy-shots/caught-testing-2014-volkswagen-xl1

"As we've already pointed out – and VW will happily remind you – the
XL1 has been engineered to return 235-mpg. A low curb weight and
slippery aerodynamics are going to be hugely important, though we have
no reason to doubt the teardrop shape of this prototype can deliver on
VW's promise of an outstanding drag coefficient of only 0.186."

"A curb weight of 1,749 lbs. has been made possible by the use of
lightweight materials, most likely copious amounts aluminum and carbon
fiber. Only 23.2-percent of the XL1 will be made out of steel or
iron."

[jon_banquer]

> http://venturebeat.com/2010/02/02/ev-maker-aptera-in-disarray-as-foun...

>
> "While Fambro and Anthony have retained their seats on the Carlsbad,
> Calif. company’s board of directors, they have little say in day-to-
> day decision making, even though it was their original vision. These
> responsibilities have fallen to Aptera’s new CEO Paul Wilbur — one of
> the main sources of conflict with the original leadership team (though
> it remains uncertain why the rift occurred).
>
> Shortly after Fambro and Anthony departed in November, Aptera
> announced major delays in its production schedule."
>
> http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.php?t=5009
>
> "Hi Guys,
>
> I'm not sure how many visit this place anymore, but I thought you'd
> find this interesting.
>
> Most of you know the VW 1L concept car was my personal inspiration to
> start Aptera. No joke. I analyzed that car, I studied it, I made
> MATLAB models. Around 2008/2009 I saw in the press) that the concept
> had been being quietly developed and shown at the Dubai auto show,
> where VW announced plans to build it. I believed it was real and that
> it was a potential threat to Aptera and Chris and I used it and many
> other reasons to lobby to begin production and stop screwing around
> with Detroit style drinkholders.
>
> Paul convinced the board that it wasn't real, it wasn't a threat and
> that it's just Steve and Chris being Steve and Chris. He knew
> better...being the builder of the SSR and all :-) "
>

> http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/future-cars/spy-shots/caught-testing-2...

>
> "As we've already pointed out – and VW will happily remind you – the
> XL1 has been engineered to return 235-mpg. A low curb weight and
> slippery aerodynamics are going to be hugely important, though we have
> no reason to doubt the teardrop shape of this prototype can deliver on
> VW's promise of an outstanding drag coefficient of only 0.186."
>
> "A curb weight of 1,749 lbs. has been made possible by the use of
> lightweight materials, most likely copious amounts aluminum and carbon
> fiber. Only 23.2-percent of the XL1 will be made out of steel or
> iron."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

"Curb weight 3,781 lb (1,715 kg)"

[anorton]

"Cydrome Leader" <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:kjfeep$1el$1...@reader1.panix.com...

Corporate CEO's who have not founded the company are almost never nice
people. The reason is that CEO's are chosen in the same basic way as the old
Roman emperors, except the backstabbing is usually less literal. They are
there to engineer their own enrichment and nothing else, and they do it in
ways that are often too complex for outsiders to follow. If they think they
can best do that by making the company grow, they will do that. If they
think they can best do it by milking investors, employees, pension funds,
taxpayers, or liquidating valuable infrastucure, then they will do that.

[Cydrome Leader]

All I can say about this is, yeah, this is correct.

With small companies that rely on investors is they invest in exchange to
be on the board or put their country club pals on the board.

they sit back for a while until your company isn't really making money as
planned according to some projected business plan.

That's when they start to meddle, and toss all the original people out and
they bring in the relics with no real skills (other than draining money
out of companies before moving on to the next one- just like a parasite)
and things go to shit.

The resulting lawsuits over everything and anything as things circle the
drain can easily outlast the company itself.

The only creativity these types have is for the most embarssing times to
have somebody served.

[whoyakidding's ghost]

It was the founders who came up with the concept of a car that needed
to be licensed as a motorcycle. It was the deposit holders who
insisted on a redesign so that the vehicle could function at drive
thrus. It was probably lawyers who demanded that the doors be fixed so
that they couldn't lop off owners' fingers. Summary: it was doomed
from the start.

Look to the VW XL1 to see how a real company pulls off a similar
vehicle. The result is a no tech spared, ridiculous number of
compromises two-seater that probably can't meet US crash standards.
Not that it matters, they plan to sell it for about 100,000 Euros! So
much for tech being used to reduce the cost. Apparently it's harder to
produce a saleable lightweight car than idiots like Bonkers believe.
Duh.

[jon_banquer]

On Apr 3, 10:42 am, whoyakidding's ghost <whoyakidd...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 16:36:17 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
>
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>
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>
>
>

> <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> >In rec.crafts.metalworking anorton <anor...@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >> "Cydrome Leader" <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
> >>news:kjfeep$1el$1...@reader1.panix.com...

The Aptera wasn't doomed from the start. This is yet another one of
KiddingNoOne's many lies.

The latest KiddingNoOne lie is very similar to his claim that the
Chevy Volt isn't overweight. GM has now admitted that the Chevy Volt
is overweight and is looking to do something about this major problem
in the second generation Volt.

[jon_banquer]

http://www.mlive.com/business/mid-michigan/index.ssf/2013/03/gm_reported_to_consider_smalle.html

"GM placing a smaller engine in the Volt is is a workable idea for
several reasons, including reducing the cost of the vehicle as well as
its weight, said Brett Smith, co-director of the manufacturing
engineering and technology group for the Center for Automotive
Research in Ann Arbor.

"Weight is a huge enemy of battery-powered vehicles," Smith said,
adding weight reduction is part of vehicle evolution."

"I think what they've figured out is if they could achieve enough
electric generation with a smaller engine, they can lighten up the
engine and cut the costs," Hoff said.

The Volt retails at about $40,000 and reducing that cost is one of the
most important things for GM to do going forward, he said."

[jon_banquer]

On Apr 3, 9:36 am, Cydrome Leader <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> In rec.crafts.metalworking anorton <anor...@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > "Cydrome Leader" <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
> >news:kjfeep$1el$1...@reader1.panix.com...

> >> In rec.crafts.metalworking jon_banquer <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> On Apr 2, 11:27?am, Cydrome Leader <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> >>>> In rec.crafts.metalworking jon_banquer <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> > On Apr 1, 7:12?pm, Cydrome Leader <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> >>>> >> In rec.crafts.metalworking jon_banquer <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> >> > is a story of what happens when you bring in traditional automotive
> >>>> >> > executives that have been in the automotive business forever and
> >>>> >> > try
> >>>> >> > and combine them them with those who have truly revolutionary new
> >>>> >> > ideas:
>
> >>>> >> >http://jalopnik.com/5405602/aptera-founders-ousted-in-boardroom-showdown
>
> >>>> >> no suprise here.
>
> >>>> >> What did the person who hired the dinosaur think would happen?
>
> >>>> > Before Paul Wilber destroyed Aptera he destroyed Saleen.
>
> >>>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saleen
>
> >>>> > I still l have a few prints of some of the magnesium parts I
> >>>> > programmed and machined for the Saleen S7-R.
>
> >>>> I just came across a copy of a memo from corporate plunderer types that
> >>>> tookover a company I worked for. It uses rediculous MBA-speak to outline
> >>>> how to fire all the founders, then the managers then the workers.
>
> >>> What you wrote above is now a very familiar story all across America.
>

> >>>http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1070490_aptera-collapse-how-why-i...

http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.php?t=4883


"My Dear former colleagues,

From the bottom of my heart I thank you for all that you've done for
Aptera. You, your work, your blood, sweat and tears have truly created
something very special. Even today with the Volt and Leaf and others
coming, there is nothing like the Aptera Typ-1 that you created.
Nothing. As you contemplate your next moves, please stop and reflect
on all of that magical work you did and raise a glass to yourself!

Chris and I feel a personal responsibility to each and every one of
you, even those of you that we didn't hire or that came after us,
because you bought into our dream and you tried to make it happen. For
that we are ever grateful. And as such, we want to help you however we
can. Whatever help you might need, especially this time of year, help
in finding new work, providing you with a stellar reference, or
whatever support we can offer, please send me or Chris a message
through this forum (His username is Epic).

I know it's been a while since we've talked. I would have reached out
to all of you personally but I don't have your non-Aptera contact
info. The board, or specifically the chairman forbid Chris and I to
have any contact with you after we were fired which is why we left
without really saying anything- and why we didn't stay in touch. None
of that matters anymore as of yesterday. As a door is closed an new
one will open for each and every one of you.


Take care and please let me know how you are doing!

-s"


p.s. This message does NOT apply to the executive team ;-) "


What Steve Fambro does now:

http://famgro.com/newsite/ourfarm/

[jon_banquer]

On Apr 3, 10:42 am, whoyakidding's ghost <whoyakidd...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 16:36:17 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> >In rec.crafts.metalworking anorton <anor...@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>

> >> "Cydrome Leader" <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
> >>news:kjfeep$1el$1...@reader1.panix.com...

Aptera deposit holders didn't insist on a redesign. This is yet
another one of KiddingNoOne's many, many lies. Here is the truth:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/11/aptera-founders-ousted-in-boardroom-showdown/

"That might have been the first sign of a rift between the founders
and the new team. It seemed apparent Wilbur’s team quickly decided the
vehicle Fambro and Anthony deemed ready for production was not fit for
the “real world.” Although the decision was couched as a response to
customer feedback, the response on the Aptera forum was decidedly
mixed. With the typical fervor of early adopters, many wanted the
company to push the car into production and leave the changes for
later iterations."

"But other sources inside Aptera tell a different story, saying Fambro
and Anthony increasingly were at odds with Wilbur’s direction. As the
new CEO developed a plan to slash costs aggressively and leave a
skeleton crew to wait for federal money, the founders developed an
alternative plan. It included reversing the new engineering direction
and delivering cars to customers ASAP. The plan also may have included
returning executive control to the founders. It is unclear what would
have become of Wilbur had the board accepted this plan, and at this
point it’s moot because the plan was rejected. In a boardroom
showdown, the majority of directors backed Wilbur’s plan. Shortly
thereafter, Fambro and Antony were let go — their official status with
the company remained unclear Sunday — along with an unknown number of
other employees"

"In Aptera’s case, sources say, Wilbur’s decision to postpone
production led to a series of consequences culminating in continued
production delays and the recent layoffs.

Though Aptera managed to raise $24 million just before capital markets
imploded last year, the decision to delay production created a much
larger capital requirement because it delayed the revenues it would
have received shipping cars to more than 3,000 customers. Sources tell
Wired.com Wilbur’s team struggled to raise new capital, although to be
fair the fundraising environment has been tough this year. Had Aptera
frozen the car’s design and started shipping cars late last year, the
cash flow could have sustained it longer and perhaps helped it raise
new capital."

Wilbur's bad management destroyed Aptera and his horrible track record
at ASC, Saleen and Aptera speaks for itself.