Multiculturalism leaves no place for Australian culture
Brian
>
> It seems multiculturalism can make room for any kind of culture in the
> world, except traditional Australian culture that is.
>
> Today there was a big multicultural parade in Canberra to mark the
> Centenary of Federation but organisers said there was no place in the event
> for one of the icons of traditional Australian culture, The Man from Snowy
> River.
>
> A group of riders form the Snowy River region, participants in a horse
> riding event to commemerate the Centenary of Federation, completed their
> epic ride in Canberra as planned on the morning of the parade but were
> banned from participating for "insurance reasons".
>
> Horses, it seems, are far too dangerous for the new age multicultural
> Australia and the public must be kept well away from these dangerous
> animals.
>
> Strange these "insurance reasons" weren't an issue just a few kilometres
> away at the Centenary of the Army Parade in front of the Australian War
> Memorial. More than a dozen of these highly dangerous animals passed within
> metres of the Governor General, The Prime Minister, General Cosgrove and,
> much to their delight, thousands of spectators.
>
> Later these same unstable beasts stood calmly in line as six military
> helicopters thundered overhead and volleys were fired from rifles and
> artillery.
>
> Am I wrong to believe something is awry with an Australian society which
> holds a "multicultural parade" but excludes one of the greatest of all
> Australian cultural icons?
>
> What do readers think of a multicultural Australia that tells the Snowy
> River riders they are not welcome and don't fit in?
>
> I know what I think.
> I had planned on going to the multicultural parade after the event at the
> War Memorial. When I found the Man from Snowy River wasn't invited, I just
> assumed I wasn't either.
*YAWN*, don't blame multiculturalism, blame the insurance industry. The
government and the military are self-insurers, David as you well know.
I am sure that there were many other "icons" of Australian culture at
the multicultural parade but the insurance problem would have made it
difficult, perhaps even ruiniously expensive for the horses to be
present. Public Liability insurance is not required for a military
parade, whereas it is at a non-government sponsored/organised event,
David as I'm sure you well know. If you want to attack anybody, attack
the Insurance industry which has made the problem of insurance for such
public events ruiniously expensive for most community organisations.
Would you prefer the public purse had underwritten the parade, David? I
can just imagine it now, your post would have been headed, "Public
taxpayers' dollars wasted on underwriting Multiculturalism Parade!"
You'd have used it to criticise multiculturalism till the cows came
home, David.
To me, it appears that you just don't like the idea of people
celebrating and accepting cultural diversity in our society. Can I
suggest that you either purchase yourself a TARDIS, move to Iceland or
throw your lot in with the PHONies, 'cause those are the only ways
you'll ever see multiculturalism thrown on the scrapheap. Even your own
party has been forced to recognise its popularity (and hence the votes
in it).
55
Last year you would have vilified me for being a racist pig for suggesting
Australians should be proud of their heritage. Now you lament its loss also.
Is the Liberal Party at last starting to listen to its grass roots
membership? TOOOOO LATE!!
I am sick and tired of Chinese (for example only) living in Australia. But
I have nothing against Australians of Chinese origin.
Bron
burn, baby, burn
Bron :-)
Mark Addinall
>
> It seems multiculturalism can make room for any kind of culture in the
> world, except traditional Australian culture that is.
And that would be what?
>
> Today there was a big multicultural parade in Canberra to mark the
> Centenary of Federation but organisers said there was no place in the event
> for one of the icons of traditional Australian culture, The Man from Snowy
> River.
>
> A group of riders form the Snowy River region, participants in a horse
> riding event to commemerate the Centenary of Federation, completed their
> epic ride in Canberra as planned on the morning of the parade but were
> banned from participating for "insurance reasons".
I seem to remember being in a march with 20,000 other QLD'rs and were
told
that placards would be allowed but placards on sticks had to have the
sticks
removed. The great stick confiscation of Brisbane. For "Insurance
reasons" at the reccomendation of a Liberal as I recall.
Comments?
>
> Horses, it seems, are far too dangerous for the new age multicultural
> Australia and the public must be kept well away from these dangerous
> animals.
Absolutely. The bastards that ride them play with dangerous
guns and lethal knives. Much to fearsome.
>
> Strange these "insurance reasons" weren't an issue just a few kilometres
> away at the Centenary of the Army Parade in front of the Australian War
> Memorial. More than a dozen of these highly dangerous animals passed within
> metres of the Governor General, The Prime Minister, General Cosgrove and,
> much to their delight, thousands of spectators.
>
> Later these same unstable beasts stood calmly in line as six military
> helicopters thundered overhead and volleys were fired from rifles and
> artillery.
>
> Am I wrong to believe something is awry with an Australian society which
> holds a "multicultural parade" but excludes one of the greatest of all
> Australian cultural icons?
>
> What do readers think of a multicultural Australia that tells the Snowy
> River riders they are not welcome and don't fit in?
Stop whining. You helped bring this about.
>
> I know what I think.
> I had planned on going to the multicultural parade after the event at the
> War Memorial. When I found the Man from Snowy River wasn't invited, I just
> assumed I wasn't either.
So when are you joining ON?
Buying a dry-z-bone and pretending you are a range rider?
Silly twonk.
Mark (woomera) Addinall
UBANGI!!!
>
> David Moss
> personal opinion only
Brian
How do you tell the difference? What makes one Australian more
Australian than another?
Yes, I'd say you are a "racist pig" for voicing such a sentiment without
understanding that the person you called "Chinese" could well be an
Australian.
Neville Duguid
> What do readers think of a multicultural Australia that tells the Snowy
> River riders they are not welcome and don't fit in?
Our educational system has been training people to denigrate "the Man
from Snowy River" for ages. It is quite common for History courses to
show students a sketch of "the Man" and ask them what is wrong with it
as a cultural icon for Australians. The required response is that it is
male, whereas modern people are not all male, it is a macho white
Anglo-Saxon, whereas not all Australians are macho white Anglo-Saxons.
No one seems to twig that the only people who qualify as Australians
under the new rules are Afro-Asian transvestites.
But the lesson is absorbed and acted on. The Man from Snowy River and
anyone who reminds people of him = BAD, exterminate, exterminate..
People of different sex, race or culture to "the Man" = GOOD, celebrate,
celebrate..
The Australian Financial Review's Australia Day cover story earlier this
year was little more than an upmarket precis of the same "history"
lesson.
--
Neville Duguid * "He who lives by tactics dies by tactics" *
True Blue Aussie Web Site * - a journo, on the occasion of *
http://www.aussie-culture.net * Malcolm Fraser's downfall *
55
No the Chinese living in Australia with Australian citizenship thinking that
he owes his allegiances to China is the racist. The Chinese living in
Australia and thinking he is Australian is not a racist.
I'm used to be a Pom, but now I am an Australian. I do not give a shit who
comes to Australia, but once they take up Australian citizenship they kiss
their ethnic/religious rivalries goodbye.
Why is it racist to say I'm proud to be an Aussie but not racist to say I'm
proud to be Chinese.
ralph
So why would you be "sick and tired" of Chinese?
Brian
Just reverse that statement and see what it says. You seem to be
confusing national allegiences with ethnic/cultural ones. The mere fact
that you continually single out "Asian" ethnicities/cultures as your
examples indicates to me your racial bent. Why not simply say,
"migrant" or "immigrant"? No one ethnic/cultural group is IMO free from
this supposed "crime". The British are the least likely ethnic group to
take up citizenship. Where do _their_ loyalities lie yet people such as
yourself only ever attack "Asian" immigrants over this matter _despite_
as in the case of the Vietnamese, over 95% of them taking up Australian
citizenship as soon as possible after arriving.
Peter Mackay
> Later these same unstable beasts stood calmly in line as six military
> helicopters thundered overhead and volleys were fired from rifles and
> artillery.
I was just a few metres from the horses, and while most stood calmly in
line, one was a bit twitchy at the Blackhawks.
A great parade. Not sure why they included the vintage cars, but.
It seems to me that our public celebrations are prone to being hijacked
for political purposes. When did the Food and Wine Frolic turn into
displays of ethnic dancing, with performers being imported (at great
public expense, no doubt)?
Bill Evans
"David Moss" <dm...@mydeja.com> wrote in message
news:905CD56...@131.236.1.1...
> It seems multiculturalism can make room for any kind of culture in the
> world, except traditional Australian culture that is.
>
> Centenary of Federation but organisers said there was no place in the
event
> for one of the icons of traditional Australian culture, The Man from Snowy
> River.
>
> A group of riders form the Snowy River region, participants in a horse
> riding event to commemerate the Centenary of Federation, completed their
> epic ride in Canberra as planned on the morning of the parade but were
> banned from participating for "insurance reasons".
>
> Australia and the public must be kept well away from these dangerous
> animals.
Damn right. The only horses I want to be near are the one under the bonnet.
>
> Strange these "insurance reasons" weren't an issue just a few kilometres
> away at the Centenary of the Army Parade in front of the Australian War
> Memorial. More than a dozen of these highly dangerous animals passed
within
> metres of the Governor General, The Prime Minister, General Cosgrove and,
> much to their delight, thousands of spectators.
>
> Later these same unstable beasts stood calmly in line as six military
> helicopters thundered overhead and volleys were fired from rifles and
> artillery.
>
> Am I wrong to believe something is awry with an Australian society which
> holds a "multicultural parade" but excludes one of the greatest of all
> Australian cultural icons?
>
> What do readers think of a multicultural Australia that tells the Snowy
> River riders they are not welcome and don't fit in?
Do you, or they, have any evidence to show these animals have been exposed
to and trained to ignore all of the "nasties" which horses traditionally
tend not to like to the extent that they won't shy or bolt into the crowd of
spectators? Obviously, the horses belonging to the military are trained in
this way. Horses from the bush, however, are unlikely to be. I'm quite sure
you would have been the first to jump in with a load of critisism of the
organisers had they allowed the horses to participate and one of them had
run amok in the crowd and killed and injured a number of people, which they
are quite capable of doing. I'm sure the organisers gave the matter all due
consideration before acting as they did in the public interest.
>
> I know what I think.
> I had planned on going to the multicultural parade after the event at the
> War Memorial. When I found the Man from Snowy River wasn't invited, I just
> assumed I wasn't either.
>
Brash
--
Bring on the herbivores, I'm hungry.
"Bill Evans" <bil...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3aab...@news.iprimus.com.au...
> Do you, or they, have any evidence to show these animals have been exposed
> to and trained to ignore all of the "nasties" which horses traditionally
> tend not to like to the extent that they won't shy or bolt into the crowd
of
> spectators? Obviously, the horses belonging to the military are trained in
> this way.
Those horses don't "belong to the military". Other than a few equine
Regimental Mascots, horses in uniform are usually the private property of
members of various "Historical Troops" and re-enactment societies. The
owners of theses animals are interested volunteers who do a bloody fine job.
Few, if any, of these horses receive special training to ignore helicopters
etc. They're just well trained animals in the care of dedicated
individuals. There's no reason to believe the "Snowy River Horses" are any
less cared for or well trained.
>Horses from the bush, however, are unlikely to be.
What? Trained to ignore distractions? Yeah, right.
Listen bill, just because you're scared of horses doesn't mean the rest of
us should have to miss out. Where are you going to be when the price of
petrol gets too high and milkos bring back there horses and wagons?
(As a child, I used to love hearing the "clip clop clip clop" of the milko's
horse as he arrived in our street in the morning).
55
Why don't you go to Vietnam and try to become a Vietnamese citizen.
Impossible. Vietnamese become Australian citizens because all they have to
do is mouth the words. But how many of them actually become Australians?
Nonetheless I take your point. "Migrants".
Should I mention at this point my favourite peeve. Aboriginals who call
themselves Aboriginals and refuse to call themselves Australians.
Brian
>
> Brian,
>
> Why don't you go to Vietnam and try to become a Vietnamese citizen.
Why? I have no desire to live in Vietnam.
> Impossible. Vietnamese become Australian citizens because all they have to
> do is mouth the words. But how many of them actually become Australians?
You have proof of this? You can verify absolutely that when Australians
of Vietnamese descent take on Australian citizenship they are merely
"mouthing the words"?
Sounds to me like your racist blinkers are getting in the way, 55.
> Nonetheless I take your point. "Migrants".
>
> Should I mention at this point my favourite peeve. Aboriginals who call
> themselves Aboriginals and refuse to call themselves Australians.
Why? Just so that you can attack someone else because they choose to
something different to yourself?
How about attacking British people who call themselves Australian,
despite never having become citizens of this fair nation?
David Moss
<MPG.15159ce51...@news.bigpond.com>:
>A great parade. Not sure why they included the vintage cars, but.
The people riding in the cars were ex-prisoners-of-war. Many were too sick
to walk. The exception being the old bloke walking behind the vintage cars
who told organisers "the Japs couldn't get me, so if its all the same to
you I'll march". Tough old bugger. He probably wouldn't have been welcomed
at the multicultural parade either. Too Australian.
DM
personal opinion only
David Moss
<3AAA02D3...@connect.comdek.net.au>:
>*YAWN*, don't blame multiculturalism, blame the insurance industry.
Nice try Brian but try again when you have given it some thought.
Horses form part of so many events in Australia that they probably blend in
too much to be noticed. Here in Queanbeyan we have the "Community
Celebrations" and horses (and camels and dogs etc) take part along with
mechanised and pedestrian participants.
All over Australia horses mix with people at local shows etc, and in
Canberra a hansom cab drawn by horses is a frequent sight around town. The
Castlemain Perkins Draught Horses often turn up at local events throughout
the country and horses being ridden alongside public roads are still so
common as to evoke little comment, even here in Canberra.
It is legal to ride horses down a public thoroughfare with no special
licence required. If I wanted to ride a horse into town to do my shopping
there is no law to prevent me, no special licence required and certainly no
compulsary insurance.
In fact the Snowy River Riders rode their horses down the same route as the
multicultural parade several hours before it began, while traffic was still
using the road.
If "insurance reasons" really played a major part in the decision to
exclude the Man From Snowy River from the multicultural parade, I'll eat my
Akubra.
To answer some of your other charges, public money *is* used to fund the
multicultural parade. Thats not an issue for me, all bread and no circuses
make for a pretty dreary society.
Am I against multiculturalism ? Some aspects, yes. Like the aspect that
seeks to celebrate every culture but our own. Thats just another aspect of
cultural cringe.
But as I recall you are into that kind of self flagellation, aren't you
Brian. Apologising for being born is part of your psyche, so rejection of
Australian cultural icons at a "multicultural" event probaly seems normal.
I highlighted this shameful event so I could point out the basic flaw in
what we call "multiculturalism" today. That is its lack of inclusiveness.
There is no place in our new multicultural society for Australian culture.
That situation is not only unhealthy but dangerous in my opinion.
DM
personal opinion only
Paul
unless they are REALLY scared or spooked. The best way to do this is to
have an idiot in the crowd blow one of those air horns, or let of a cracker!
Funny though, I haven't heard any one mention Summernats as a form of Aussie
culture........
Paul
David Moss wrote:
>
> Am I against multiculturalism ? Some aspects, yes. Like the aspect that
> seeks to celebrate every culture but our own. Thats just another aspect of
> cultural cringe.
>
cultural cringe? understandable. Watch all the old newsreel for genuine
'austrayan' culture. Hilarious, but enough to make one cringe.
Mark Addinall
>
> brian_r...@my-deja.com (Brian) wrote in
> <3AAA02D3...@connect.comdek.net.au>:
>
> >*YAWN*, don't blame multiculturalism, blame the insurance industry.
>
> Nice try Brian but try again when you have given it some thought.
> Horses form part of so many events in Australia that they probably blend in
> too much to be noticed. Here in Queanbeyan we have the "Community
> Celebrations" and horses (and camels and dogs etc) take part along with
> mechanised and pedestrian participants.
>
> All over Australia horses mix with people at local shows etc, and in
> Canberra a hansom cab drawn by horses is a frequent sight around town. The
> Castlemain Perkins Draught Horses often turn up at local events throughout
> the country and horses being ridden alongside public roads are still so
> common as to evoke little comment, even here in Canberra.
>
> It is legal to ride horses down a public thoroughfare with no special
> licence required. If I wanted to ride a horse into town to do my shopping
> there is no law to prevent me, no special licence required and certainly no
> compulsary insurance.
So if a horse kicked a kid or fell onto a car who pays the bill?
You?
>
> In fact the Snowy River Riders rode their horses down the same route as the
> multicultural parade several hours before it began, while traffic was still
> using the road.
>
> If "insurance reasons" really played a major part in the decision to
> exclude the Man From Snowy River from the multicultural parade, I'll eat my
> Akubra.
Geez, you really are deluding yourself on this one.
Time for a holiday David. ADFA must be getting to you.
>
> To answer some of your other charges, public money *is* used to fund the
> multicultural parade. Thats not an issue for me, all bread and no circuses
> make for a pretty dreary society.
>
> Am I against multiculturalism ? Some aspects, yes. Like the aspect that
> seeks to celebrate every culture but our own. Thats just another aspect of
> cultural cringe.
Don't be silly David. Mainstream Australian culture is celebrated
every day. Can't turn the fucking TV on without getting footy
(although I do enjoy fatty and Sterlo myself). We have Australia day,
ANZAC day, various cup days, Ironman events, surf events, ski events.
The Ekka show is held in every state, every year, since you and I were
little
pommie boys.
Although I agree, we could have rounded up a few dozen abos and shot
them with
black powder muskets to make it a true reflection of our cultural
heritage.
>
> But as I recall you are into that kind of self flagellation, aren't you
> Brian. Apologising for being born is part of your psyche, so rejection of
> Australian cultural icons at a "multicultural" event probaly seems normal.
>
> I highlighted this shameful event so I could point out the basic flaw in
> what we call "multiculturalism" today. That is its lack of inclusiveness.
> There is no place in our new multicultural society for Australian culture.
> That situation is not only unhealthy but dangerous in my opinion.
Give it a rest mate.
Mark (woomera) Addinall
UBANGI!!!
>
> DM
> personal opinion only
Karl
citizenship ASAP, is because they don't want to go back to growing rice in a
collective farm. It has nothing to do with patriotism or becoming Australian.
If you come a semi-decent country like Germany, France, UK, USA, then its not the
end of the world if you get sent home. If I was a poor person from Sudan,
Zimbabwie, Colombia, Burma, etc, in Australia, I'd be getting Australian
citizenship ASAP, even if I hated Australia.
Karl
David Moss wrote:
Bloody oath!
Bill Evans
"Brash" <acrobat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3aab08a8$0$25483$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
> You've made an incorrect assumption Bill.
>
> --
> Bring on the herbivores, I'm hungry.
>
>
> "Bill Evans" <bil...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3aab...@news.iprimus.com.au...
> > Do you, or they, have any evidence to show these animals have been
exposed
> > to and trained to ignore all of the "nasties" which horses traditionally
> > tend not to like to the extent that they won't shy or bolt into the
crowd
> of
> > spectators? Obviously, the horses belonging to the military are trained
in
> > this way.
>
> Those horses don't "belong to the military". Other than a few equine
> Regimental Mascots, horses in uniform are usually the private property of
> members of various "Historical Troops" and re-enactment societies. The
> owners of theses animals are interested volunteers who do a bloody fine
job.
> Few, if any, of these horses receive special training to ignore
helicopters
> etc. They're just well trained animals in the care of dedicated
> individuals. There's no reason to believe the "Snowy River Horses" are
any
> less cared for or well trained.
>
events. Every one of those horse will have been subject to extensive testing
to ensure the rider can keep the animal totally under control, no matter
what is thrown at them (literally).
>
> >Horses from the bush, however, are unlikely to be.
>
> What? Trained to ignore distractions? Yeah, right.
>
having some daredevil buzz them with a helicopter sounding a siren as he
goes. The animals, including horses run like shit when that happens. Given
that well known fact, the organisers of the parade were quite right to
exclude these animals from the parade if they haven't had the opportunity to
thoroughly test how well behaved they are. It only takes one 750 kg horse to
rear up when a kid runs at it to have a tragedy on your hands.
>
> Listen bill, just because you're scared of horses doesn't mean the rest of
> us should have to miss out.
I'm not scared of horses. I used to train pacers for a friend some time
back. I just don't like them much, they have a mind of their own, and hurt
like all hell when they step on your foot.
--
Cheers,
Bill Evans
Where are you going to be when the price of
> petrol gets too high and milkos bring back there horses and wagons?
The same as I do now, walk down to the local delimart and buy it.
>
> (As a child, I used to love hearing the "clip clop clip clop" of the
milko's
> horse as he arrived in our street in the morning).
>
Jesus. You must be even older than I am. The horse drawn milk and bread
deliveries stopped in Perth before I started school.
Peter Mackay
>
> "Brash" <acrobat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3aab08a8$0$25483$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
> > You've made an incorrect assumption Bill.
> >
> No I haven't.
Indeed you have.
Twaddle. The horses participating in the parade were privately owned,
and the Army would NOT have specifically tested them beforehand by
having helicopters fly over as tanks rumble past. Too bloody expensive.
> >
> > >Horses from the bush, however, are unlikely to be.
> >
> > What? Trained to ignore distractions? Yeah, right.
> >
> Ever seen how animals are mustered in mountain country? Usually it is by
> having some daredevil buzz them with a helicopter sounding a siren as he
> goes. The animals, including horses run like shit when that happens. Given
> that well known fact, the organisers of the parade were quite right to
> exclude these animals from the parade if they haven't had the opportunity to
> thoroughly test how well behaved they are. It only takes one 750 kg horse to
> rear up when a kid runs at it to have a tragedy on your hands.
A child is somewhat different to a helicopter, wouldn't you say? And
dare I suggest that stockhorses aren't mustered by helicopter. They are
certainly present at such musters, and are controlled by the rider
soothing the horse, which is, of course, quite used to the sound of
engines and vehicles by then. The same cannot be said of brumbies.
Horses are commonly found at public events. You perhaps never attended
an Agricultural Show, Bill? We had the Royal Canberra Show a few weeks
back, and little children happily ran around the stables. The horses
moved through the crowds on their way to and from events in the ring.
Nobody gave a half-bugger about it.
No, I suggest that David Moss has the right of it. Snowy Mountains
stockmen are far too Australian for a Canberra Festival.
Bill Evans
"Peter Mackay" <peter....@bigpond.com.aus> wrote in message
news:MPG.1517cef61...@news.bigpond.com...
Bullshit. They said they had to refuse them permission to enter the parade
due to insurance reasons. I, for one, believe them. I know if I were their
insurer, I would be wanting an enormous premium to allow untried Snowy
Mountain stock horses into it. Ask the Swan Brewery what it costs them for
public liability insurance for the 2 clydedales they have travelling around
WA promoting their product.
Bron
>
>
> Bullshit. They said they had to refuse them permission to enter the parade
> due to insurance reasons. I, for one, believe them. I know if I were their
> insurer, I would be wanting an enormous premium to allow untried Snowy
> Mountain stock horses into it. Ask the Swan Brewery what it costs them for
> public liability insurance for the 2 clydedales they have travelling
around
> WA promoting their product.
>
Yeah, we have to support those nice wonderful insurance companies. Wouldn't
want them to hurt their ever growing profits by having to (god forbid) makes
some type of payout. Insurance companies aren't in the business of taking
risks!!!!!!
What were you naysayers thinking!!!!!
Bron
Peter Mackay
says...
Wrong line of argument, Bron. Bill didn't quote the insurers because he
is guessing. Likewise he wants us to *ask* the Swan Brewery about
insuring its own horses, again because he is guessing.
The simple fact is that horses are used in parades around Australia
every week and nobody bats an eye. Bill is bullshitting, and you
swallowed it.
Bill Evans
"Peter Mackay" <peter....@bigpond.com.aus> wrote in message
I have enough experience with public functions to know how it works. The
insurers have the final say on everything in the parade. One like this would
be required to produce a certificate for their public liability insurance
for at least $100 million, probably more. No certificate, no parade. If the
risk assessor doesn't like horses, there will be no horses.
>
> The simple fact is that horses are used in parades around Australia
> every week and nobody bats an eye. Bill is bullshitting, and you
> swallowed it.
Name 4 parades held in the last month which featured horses other than
police horses over which the organisers insurer has no liability. I haven't
seen one in years. Agricultural show parades don't count. There is a
physical barrier between the public and the animals there.
David Moss
>Name 4 parades held in the last month which featured horses other than
>police horses over which the organisers insurer has no liability. I
>haven't seen one in years.
I saw one last Saturday and commented on it.
The 100th anniversary parade for the army.
All Australia's top dignitaries were apparently in dreadful danger from a
dozen of these savage beasts, not to mention the thousands strong crowd of
spectators.
>Agricultural show parades don't count. There
>is a physical barrier between the public and the animals there.
At all agricultural shows I have seen horses are regularly moved through
public places between the stables and the arena.
They also have donkey, pony and camel rides where the public get very close
to animals.
Seems to me you are one of the "wrap them in cotton wool" crowd Bill.
--
David Moss
personal opinion only
http://plato.itsc.adfa.edu.au/apr
The Australian Politics Resource
Neville Duguid
> His inapropriateness as an icon has got more to do with the fact that the
> Man from Snowy River worked in a rural setting, when even at the time that
> the poem was set the majority of Australians were urban. Coupled with the
> fact that he is indeed white, anglo-saxon and male, when many contributions
> to Australia and Australian life were made by people who were none of these
> things. Holding him up as some sort of epitome of what it is to be
> Australian excludes something like 95% of the population.
The thread is about why some mounted Aussie stockmen were excluded from
a parade celebrating Australia's cultural *diversity*.
My contribution was to point out how the quest for a *single individual*
-- allegedly needed to replace "the Man from Snowy River" as our alleged
universal cultural icon -- is not really so baffling when you consider
kids are expected to sit straight-faced as their teachers lament that as
long as his replacement is female and non-white, it will somehow no
longer be "exclusive". Obviously not all Australians are male. But if
you replace "the Man" with a woman, how is that any less "exclusive"
than a man?
Anyway stay on topic or I won't answer your carping attempts to hound me
off topic. One sign would an occasional sign of interest in other
people who say the same things as I do. If you ignore things that
others say, then get into a state when I merely agree with them, people
might get the idea you're infatuated with me or something.
--
Neville Duguid *"What all the wise men promised has not *
True Blue Aussie Web Site * happened, and what all the damned fools*
http://www.aussie-culture.net * said has come to pass." Lord Melbourne *
Peter Mackay
says...
>
> "Peter Mackay" <peter....@bigpond.com.aus> wrote in message
> > In article <3ab0...@news.iprimus.com.au>, bil...@iprimus.com.au says...
> > > Name 4 parades held in the last month which featured horses other than
> > > police horses over which the organisers insurer has no liability. I
> haven't
> > > seen one in years.
> >
> >
> > > Agricultural show parades don't count. There is a
> > > physical barrier between the public and the animals there.
> >
> > your memory, as the relevant para seems to have been conveniently lost
> > along the way:
> >
> > "Horses are commonly found at public events. You perhaps never attended
> > an Agricultural Show, Bill? We had the Royal Canberra Show a few weeks
> > back, and little children happily ran around the stables. The horses
> > moved through the crowds on their way to and from events in the ring.
> > Nobody gave a half-bugger about it."
> >
> > do not mix at public events, why you are full of horsesh*it.
>
> OK, so find me an insurer who will provide insurance cover for bush stock
> horses taking part in a parade on city streets.
>
> The organisers stated that their insurer would not provide cover. If you
> don't believe them, prove the lie. Contact their insurer and ask the
> question.
>
> I've had enough experience with organising public functions to know what the
> insurance companies are like. Obviously, you haven't.
>
> If you are not prepared to do the background research to establish the true
> facts, then shut the fuck up, 'cos you don't know what you are talking
> about.
I know, like every other person with eyes in their heads, that horses
participate in public parades and horses pass freely through crowds at
agricultural shows. These are facts.
Agora
You are naive. Multiculturalism has never, ever been multi anything. If is a
counter-cultural movement that is aimed mainly at traditional society. While
reading this article I realised that you actually seem surprised. Open your
eyes. And if you dont like what is happening, for crying out loud, don't
vote for it.
> It seems multiculturalism can make room for any kind of culture in the
> world, except traditional Australian culture that is.
>
> Today there was a big multicultural parade in Canberra to mark the
> Centenary of Federation but organisers said there was no place in the
event
> for one of the icons of traditional Australian culture, The Man from Snowy
> River.
>
> A group of riders form the Snowy River region, participants in a horse
> riding event to commemerate the Centenary of Federation, completed their
> epic ride in Canberra as planned on the morning of the parade but were
> banned from participating for "insurance reasons".
>
> Horses, it seems, are far too dangerous for the new age multicultural
> Australia and the public must be kept well away from these dangerous
> animals.
>
> Strange these "insurance reasons" weren't an issue just a few kilometres
> away at the Centenary of the Army Parade in front of the Australian War
> Memorial. More than a dozen of these highly dangerous animals passed
within
> metres of the Governor General, The Prime Minister, General Cosgrove and,
> much to their delight, thousands of spectators.
>
> Later these same unstable beasts stood calmly in line as six military
> helicopters thundered overhead and volleys were fired from rifles and
> artillery.
>
> Am I wrong to believe something is awry with an Australian society which
> holds a "multicultural parade" but excludes one of the greatest of all
> Australian cultural icons?
>
> What do readers think of a multicultural Australia that tells the Snowy
> River riders they are not welcome and don't fit in?
>
> I know what I think.
> I had planned on going to the multicultural parade after the event at the
> War Memorial. When I found the Man from Snowy River wasn't invited, I just
> assumed I wasn't either.
>
Peter Mackay
> police horses over which the organisers insurer has no liability. I haven't
> seen one in years.
You should get out more.
> Agricultural show parades don't count. There is a
> physical barrier between the public and the animals there.
I wasn't talking about the *parades* at the show, ducky. Let me refresh
your memory, as the relevant para seems to have been conveniently lost
along the way:
"Horses are commonly found at public events. You perhaps never attended
an Agricultural Show, Bill? We had the Royal Canberra Show a few weeks
back, and little children happily ran around the stables. The horses
moved through the crowds on their way to and from events in the ring.
Nobody gave a half-bugger about it."
And that's the fact of it. If you are telling me that horses and people
Bill Evans
"Peter Mackay" <peter....@bigpond.com.aus> wrote in message
OK, so find me an insurer who will provide insurance cover for bush stock
Neville Duguid
> What do readers think of a multicultural Australia that tells the Snowy
> River riders they are not welcome and don't fit in?
Our educational system has been training people to denigrate "the Man
from Snowy River" for ages. It is quite common for History courses to
show students a sketch of "the Man" and ask them what is wrong with it
as a cultural icon for Australians. The required response is that it is
male, whereas modern people are not all male, it is a macho white
Anglo-Saxon, whereas not all Australians are macho white Anglo-Saxons.
No one seems to twig that the only people who qualify as Australians
under the new rules are Afro-Asian transvestites.
But the lesson is absorbed and acted on. The Man from Snowy River and
anyone who reminds people of him = BAD, exterminate, exterminate..
People of different sex, race or culture to "the Man" = GOOD, celebrate,
celebrate..
The Australian Financial Review's Australia Day cover story earlier this
year was little more than an upmarket precis of the same "history"
lesson.
--
Neville Duguid * "He who lives by tactics dies by tactics" *
True Blue Aussie Web Site * - a journo, on the occasion of *
http://www.aussie-culture.net * Malcolm Fraser's downfall *
Mark Gallagher
still had to try. Desperately snatching up the keyboard, 55 typed...
> That's why I am voting One Nation.
>
> Last year you would have vilified me for being a racist pig for suggesting
> Australians should be proud of their heritage. Now you lament its loss also.
I fail to see the connection between racism and national pride.
Hell, I fail to see any REAL connection between One Nation and
national pride :o)
> Is the Liberal Party at last starting to listen to its grass roots
> membership? TOOOOO LATE!!
>
> I am sick and tired of Chinese (for example only) living in Australia. But
> I have nothing against Australians of Chinese origin.
I also fail to see what the above two paragraphs have to do with
national pride.
--
Mark Gallagher, fumbling for his glasses
Honk if you love peace and quiet!
http://www.smileydesigns.com/
http://users.bigpond.com/dick_gallagher/
Wayne Bickley
nevi...@bigpond.net.au wrote on 16/3/01 2:30 pm:
> David Moss <dm...@mydeja.com> wrote:
>
>> What do readers think of a multicultural Australia that tells the Snowy
>> River riders they are not welcome and don't fit in?
>
> Our educational system has been training people to denigrate "the Man
> from Snowy River" for ages. It is quite common for History courses to
> show students a sketch of "the Man" and ask them what is wrong with it
> as a cultural icon for Australians. The required response is that it is
> male, whereas modern people are not all male, it is a macho white
> Anglo-Saxon, whereas not all Australians are macho white Anglo-Saxons.
Oh what crap, 'required response' indeed; gee, you're not trying to paint
Univerisities as some kind of modern parallel of Hitler Youth, are you?
His inapropriateness as an icon has got more to do with the fact that the
Man from Snowy River worked in a rural setting, when even at the time that
the poem was set the majority of Australians were urban. Coupled with the
fact that he is indeed white, anglo-saxon and male, when many contributions
to Australia and Australian life were made by people who were none of these
things. Holding him up as some sort of epitome of what it is to be
Australian excludes something like 95% of the population.
> No one seems to twig that the only people who qualify as Australians
> under the new rules are Afro-Asian transvestites.
Well, that's just dickhead logic. Simply because someone implies that
something is inappropriate does not logically lead to the fact that that are
advocating its diametric opposite.
>
> But the lesson is absorbed and acted on. The Man from Snowy River and
> anyone who reminds people of him = BAD, exterminate, exterminate.
No-one is saying 'bad', people are saying 'contextualise'. People are
questioning not whether it is a bad image, for what it is, but simply that
there is legitimate question over whether The Man from Snowy River can be
said to exemplify Australian life for a significant number of people, when
it is demonstrable that his way of life was very much a minority one.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Wayne Bickley, aka Sofa-Man
"Occasionally battling evil with his mighty powers of indolence"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long,
the grasshopper kept burying acorns for the winter, while the octopus
mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then the winter came, and the
grasshopper died, and the octopus ate all his acorns. And also he got a
racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?"
- Philip J. Fry, 'Futurama'
Mark Gallagher
still had to try. Desperately snatching up the keyboard, 55 typed...
> Brian,
>
> Why don't you go to Vietnam and try to become a Vietnamese citizen.
Relevance?
> Impossible. Vietnamese become Australian citizens because all they have to
> do is mouth the words. But how many of them actually become Australians?
Not knowing any Vietnamese people who don't consider themselves
Australian, I can't really give you a representative sample.
> Nonetheless I take your point. "Migrants".
>
> Should I mention at this point my favourite peeve. Aboriginals who call
> themselves Aboriginals and refuse to call themselves Australians.
Name them =)
--
Mark Gallagher
Mark Gallagher
but still had to try. Desperately snatching up the keyboard, Karl
typed...
> The reason why people from shit countries like Vietnam take out Australian
> citizenship ASAP, is because they don't want to go back to growing rice in a
> collective farm. It has nothing to do with patriotism or becoming Australian.
You think people must be *patriotic* to be Australian?
Reminds me of the American attitude that American citizens that
supported VC in the Vietnam War were traitors...
> If you come a semi-decent country like Germany, France, UK, USA, then its not the
> end of the world if you get sent home. If I was a poor person from Sudan,
> Zimbabwie, Colombia, Burma, etc, in Australia, I'd be getting Australian
> citizenship ASAP, even if I hated Australia.
Hey, for some it's home.
Mark Gallagher
but still had to try. Desperately snatching up the keyboard, ralph
typed...
> On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 21:50:36 +1000, "55" <vul...@one.net.au> wrote:
>
> >That's why I am voting One Nation.
> >
> >Last year you would have vilified me for being a racist pig for suggesting
> >Australians should be proud of their heritage. Now you lament its loss also.
> >
> >Is the Liberal Party at last starting to listen to its grass roots
> >membership? TOOOOO LATE!!
> >
> >I am sick and tired of Chinese (for example only) living in Australia. But
> >I have nothing against Australians of Chinese origin.
>
> So why would you be "sick and tired" of Chinese?
Because we get it every other week.
Oh, I like my rice & chicken curry as much as the next man, but
frankly I'd prefer pizza.
Sorry, couldn't resist :o)
Mark Gallagher
> David Moss <dm...@mydeja.com> wrote:
>
> > What do readers think of a multicultural Australia that tells the Snowy
> > River riders they are not welcome and don't fit in?
>
> Our educational system has been training people to denigrate "the Man
> from Snowy River" for ages. It is quite common for History courses to
> show students a sketch of "the Man" and ask them what is wrong with it
> as a cultural icon for Australians. The required response is that it is
> male, whereas modern people are not all male, it is a macho white
> Anglo-Saxon, whereas not all Australians are macho white Anglo-Saxons.
> No one seems to twig that the only people who qualify as Australians
> under the new rules are Afro-Asian transvestites.
You seem to think you know a lot about the Australian educational
system (particularly primary schools and early high schools, where
such icons could conceivably be an issue) for someone who's completely
wrong.
> But the lesson is absorbed and acted on. The Man from Snowy River and
> anyone who reminds people of him = BAD, exterminate, exterminate..
> People of different sex, race or culture to "the Man" = GOOD, celebrate,
> celebrate..
Whatever you think, mate...
<snip>
Agora
You are naive. Multiculturalism has never, ever been multi anything. If is a
counter-cultural movement that is aimed mainly at eliminating traditional
> What do readers think of a multicultural Australia that tells the Snowy
> River riders they are not welcome and don't fit in?
>
Bill Evans
"Peter Mackay" <peter....@bigpond.com.aus> wrote in message
Since when do insurance companies care about facts? They are only concerned
with risk. Take up the challenge above and prove your point, or shut up.
Peter Mackay
As public parades throughout Australia include horses, as anybody may
see, and horses and people including small children mix freely at
Agricultural shows, again as anybody may see, I conclude that the facts
do not interest you, and you would rather indulge in rhetoric and
fantasy.
I say, who are you trying to kid? Not me. Not yourself, surely?
Anil Vayper
> "David Moss" <dm...@mydeja.com> wrote in message
> news:905CD56...@131.236.1.1...
>
> You are naive. Multiculturalism has never, ever been multi anything. If is a
> counter-cultural movement that is aimed mainly at eliminating traditional
> society. While
> reading this article I realised that you actually seem surprised. Open your
> eyes. And if you dont like what is happening, for crying out loud, don't
> vote for it.
Multiculturism is about being aware of, and respecting people's right to have
different beliefs and value systems. You don't have to like it. You just have to
tolerate it. It's not some threat to you and your family. You don't have to
indulge in someone elses beliefs or learn their language. Just live and let
live.
E.
Peter Mackay
says...
> Agora wrote:
>
> > "David Moss" <dm...@mydeja.com> wrote in message
> > news:905CD56...@131.236.1.1...
> >
> > You are naive. Multiculturalism has never, ever been multi anything. If is a
> > counter-cultural movement that is aimed mainly at eliminating traditional
> > society. While
> > reading this article I realised that you actually seem surprised. Open your
> > eyes. And if you dont like what is happening, for crying out loud, don't
> > vote for it.
>
> Multiculturism is about being aware of, and respecting people's right to have
> different beliefs and value systems. You don't have to like it. You just have to
> tolerate it. It's not some threat to you and your family. You don't have to
> indulge in someone elses beliefs or learn their language. Just live and let
> live.
Sure. So why exclude *Australian* thingssuch as the Snowy Mountain
Riders from a festival? A little intolerant, wouldn't you say?
Anil Vayper
> In article <3AB3FE0A...@yahoo.com>, cuddly...@yahoo.com
> says...
> > Multiculturism is about being aware of, and respecting people's right to have
> > different beliefs and value systems. You don't have to like it. You just have to
> > tolerate it. It's not some threat to you and your family. You don't have to
> > indulge in someone elses beliefs or learn their language. Just live and let
> > live.
> Sure. So why exclude *Australian* thingssuch as the Snowy Mountain
> Riders from a festival? A little intolerant, wouldn't you say?
Very intolerant, and the excuse about 'insurance' is pretty thin. Unfortunately it's
also probably true. Insurance companies are generally foreign-owned multinationals and
their primary concern is profit, not Australiana.
It's not racial or cultural apartheid, it's economic apartheid.
Someone's ass needs a very firm kick.
I hate to say this, and if ever questioned about it in the future, I will recant or
deny all knowledge ... but.... I agree with you on the horses issue. Horses can be
seen at all sorts of public events and parades, very close or actually in contact with
the general public. Anyone who thinks otherwise never ventures outside or
alternatively, should return the blinkers to the horse.
E.
Bron
"Anil Vayper" <cuddly...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3AB3FE0A...@yahoo.com...
> Agora wrote:
>
>
> Multiculturism is about being aware of, and respecting people's right to
have
> different beliefs and value systems.
That may be what it's supposed to be about, but in reality this is far from
the case in Australia in 2001. Mind you ... who do we thank for Laksa ..
yummy ....
> You don't have to like it. You just have to
> tolerate it. It's not some threat to you and your family.
Isn't it? Guess it isn't unless you are an Australian by birth without any
"multicultural" features.
> You don't have to
> indulge in someone elses beliefs or learn their language. Just live and
let
> live.
If only you were right. But by simply being caucasian and continuing to
intake oxygen makes you a racist in this country.
Bron
Bron
> Peter Mackay wrote:
>
> deny all knowledge ... but.... I agree with you on the horses issue.
Horses can be
> seen at all sorts of public events and parades, very close or actually in
contact with
> the general public. Anyone who thinks otherwise never ventures outside or
> alternatively, should return the blinkers to the horse.
Well, sure they can .. as long as they're in the food.......................
Brian
>
> "Anil Vayper" <cuddly...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3AB3FE0A...@yahoo.com...
> > Agora wrote:
> >
> >
> > Multiculturism is about being aware of, and respecting people's right to
> have
> > different beliefs and value systems.
>
> That may be what it's supposed to be about, but in reality this is far from
> the case in Australia in 2001. Mind you ... who do we thank for Laksa ..
> yummy ....
And Indian curries, Lebanonese food, Chinese take-away, Vietnamese
take-away (tried the Tudor at O'Connor, Bron?), Turkish food, Pizza and
so on. All excellent examples of how Australians of all walks of life
and ethnicity sample and experience each other's most prominent cultural
aspect - food, Bron.
> > You don't have to like it. You just have to
> > tolerate it. It's not some threat to you and your family.
>
> Isn't it? Guess it isn't unless you are an Australian by birth without any
> "multicultural" features.
Oh, bullshit, Bron, pure and simple and undistilled.
> > You don't have to
> > indulge in someone elses beliefs or learn their language. Just live and
> let
> > live.
>
> If only you were right. But by simply being caucasian and continuing to
> intake oxygen makes you a racist in this country.
Even more bullshit. Do you really believe that or are you merely
posturing?
Bron
bullshit will you Brian? The fact of the matter is that you are incorrect.
Yes, our country suffers from racism, intolerance and idiocy. But just as
clearly it's not all contained under white skin.
But enough of that shit, we've been there and already agreed to disagree on
that.....
lets focus on the food ...... :-)
> And Indian curries, Lebanonese food, Chinese take-away, Vietnamese
> take-away (tried the Tudor at O'Connor, Bron?), Turkish food, Pizza and
> so on. All excellent examples of how Australians of all walks of life
> and ethnicity sample and experience each other's most prominent cultural
> aspect - food, Bron.
Pass on the curry (yerk), pass on the Lebanese food (did you spell that
right?), love the Chinese, Oconnor Vietnamese take away has some of the best
vietnamese i've tasted since the other restaurant closed down there on the
corner.... , not to keen on Turkish food (but do like Hommus), Pizza is ok I
suppose but you can't beat a good Laksa.
Dickson Asian Noodle House makes the best Laksa in Canberra!!!!!
The shop in the Tuggers food court does OK take away Laksa if you are in a
hurry though (upstairs near the chinese take away)... The worst Laksa i've
ever had was at the Rooty Hill RSL, in Canberra i'd say downstairs just
outside the Tuggers Hyperdome (near the pizza place) would be the worst i've
tasted so far, but I think it's the difference in tastes between Asian
regions there rather than bad cooking.
Bron
Anil Vayper
> "Anil Vayper" <cuddly...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > Multiculturism is about being aware of, and respecting people's right to
> have
> > different beliefs and value systems.
> That may be what it's supposed to be about, but in reality this is far from
> the case in Australia in 2001. Mind you ... who do we thank for Laksa ..
> yummy ....
Oz still hasn't had the radicals come out and push their causes to
insensibility.
Unfortunately, the extremes need to happen before a confortable and sensible
middle ground can be acheived.
You will never learn about another culture by going"EEEK!!!! they're
different!" and feeling threatened.
> > You don't have to like it. You just have to
> > tolerate it. It's not some threat to you and your family.
> Isn't it? Guess it isn't unless you are an Australian by birth without any
> "multicultural" features.
What exactly is it that you are afraid of?
> > You don't have to
> > indulge in someone elses beliefs or learn their language. Just live and
> let
> > live.
> If only you were right. But by simply being caucasian and continuing to
> intake oxygen makes you a racist in this country.
> Bron
Unfortunately, in some cases it does seem to be the perception. But why believe
the shitheads from other cultures that tell you you are simply wrong?
They are just the most vocal. People are pretty much the same in any country or
culture. But sadly, it's the dickheads that get all the attention, and the
dickheads that the media want you to see.
E.
Anil Vayper
<snipped Bron's shopping expidition at food halls>
> lets focus on the food ...... :-)
> Bron
Lets ignore the bought food. Any idiot can go to a restaurant. You get fed, your
taste buds get excited or disgusted but you don't learn jack about another
culture.
Try a home cooked Indian/Fijian
Indian/Samoan/Tongan/Israeli/Malaysian/Chinese/Japanese/Greek/Italian/Turkish
etc meal and then comment on the culture/food.
E.
Bron
> Bron wrote:
>
> What exactly is it that you are afraid of?
Bad dose of Laksa from the Rooty Hill RSL rated high up there for a while.
It doesn't come down to fear, simply annoyance from time to time.
> Unfortunately, in some cases it does seem to be the perception. But why
believe
> the shitheads from other cultures that tell you you are simply wrong?
I don't believe them, because I *know* i'm not racist. However, I get tired
of hearing it.
> They are just the most vocal. People are pretty much the same in any
country or
> culture. But sadly, it's the dickheads that get all the attention, and the
> dickheads that the media want you to see.
Yeah, well you would have just made the most valid point of this whole
discussion. Pity we couldn't shut the deadshits up and let the rest of us
just get on with it.
Bron
Bron
> Bron wrote:
>
> Lets ignore the bought food. Any idiot can go to a restaurant. You get
fed, your
> taste buds get excited or disgusted but you don't learn jack about another
> culture.
Ah .. but I don't have to cook .... *sigh*
> Try a home cooked Indian/Fijian
>
Indian/Samoan/Tongan/Israeli/Malaysian/Chinese/Japanese/Greek/Italian/Turkis
h
> etc meal and then comment on the culture/food.
What do I learn about the culture/food whilst i'm in my kitchen massacring
it? Best lesson to learn with Indian food is to send the "hot" curry back
because it isn't "hot enough" ... ROFL ... my dad did that ... ONCE :-D
but never again.....
The best lesson is to go to a restaurant, experience the food, the
"atmosphere" etc. I think that's one of the best ways. The other way is to
visit the country .. but not till the Aussie dollar stops it's ride down
with the temperature :-(
Bron
Peter Mackay
says...
> Peter Mackay wrote:
>
> > In article <3AB3FE0A...@yahoo.com>, cuddly...@yahoo.com
> > says...
> > > Multiculturism is about being aware of, and respecting people's right to have
> > > different beliefs and value systems. You don't have to like it. You just have to
> > > tolerate it. It's not some threat to you and your family. You don't have to
> > > indulge in someone elses beliefs or learn their language. Just live and let
> > > live.
> > Sure. So why exclude *Australian* thingssuch as the Snowy Mountain
> > Riders from a festival? A little intolerant, wouldn't you say?
>
> Very intolerant, and the excuse about 'insurance' is pretty thin. Unfortunately it's
> also probably true. Insurance companies are generally foreign-owned multinationals and
> their primary concern is profit, not Australiana.
> It's not racial or cultural apartheid, it's economic apartheid.
> Someone's ass needs a very firm kick.
Mmmm, so why just the Canberra Multicultural Festival when horses are
commonplace in other pareades in Canberra?
>
> I hate to say this, and if ever questioned about it in the future, I will recant or
> deny all knowledge ... but.... I agree with you on the horses issue. Horses can be
> seen at all sorts of public events and parades, very close or actually in contact with
> the general public. Anyone who thinks otherwise never ventures outside or
> alternatively, should return the blinkers to the horse.
It's just common sense. I'll say something as obvious as above and
people like Bron will bend over backwards to stop agreeing with me.
Anil Vayper
> "Anil Vayper" <cuddly...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3AB4594B...@yahoo.com...
> I don't believe them, because I *know* i'm not racist. However, I get tired
> of hearing it.
I know you're not racist. And I also get tired of being told I am racist or
whatever for not echoing some idiots PC line.
> > They are just the most vocal. People are pretty much the same in any
> country or
> > culture. But sadly, it's the dickheads that get all the attention, and the
> > dickheads that the media want you to see.
> Yeah, well you would have just made the most valid point of this whole
> discussion. Pity we couldn't shut the deadshits up and let the rest of us
> just get on with it.
> Bron
There is always a bit of an antagonistic learning curve before a reasonable
understanding is reached.
E.
Anil Vayper
> > Try a home cooked Indian/Fijian
> Indian/Samoan/Tongan/Israeli/Malaysian/Chinese/Japanese/Greek/Italian/Turkis
> h
> > etc meal and then comment on the culture/food.
> What do I learn about the culture/food whilst i'm in my kitchen massacring
> it?
I meant being invited to someone's house for dinner. What you get in the
restaurants is not quite the same as home cooked stuff.
> Best lesson to learn with Indian food is to send the "hot" curry back
> because it isn't "hot enough" ... ROFL ... my dad did that ... ONCE :-D
> but never again.....
Heh,... try mongolian BBQ .... with a bunch of pissed gits who want to turn it
into a who-can-eat-thehottest-food competition.
> The best lesson is to go to a restaurant, experience the food, the
> "atmosphere" etc. I think that's one of the best ways. The other way is to
> visit the country .. but not till the Aussie dollar stops it's ride down
> with the temperature :-(
> Bron
True. But take your own loo paper and gut-disease cures <veg>
E.
Anil Vayper
> Mmmm, so why just the Canberra Multicultural Festival when horses are
> commonplace in other pareades in Canberra?
I have no answer for that. Bad luck with who they got as an insurance assessor?
> It's just common sense. I'll say something as obvious as above and
> people like Bron will bend over backwards to stop agreeing with me.
So what wrong with being flexible?
E.
Bron
> Bron wrote:
>
> I meant being invited to someone's house for dinner. What you get in the
> restaurants is not quite the same as home cooked stuff.
Ah .. IC .. and I agree.
> Heh,... try mongolian BBQ .... with a bunch of pissed gits who want to
turn it
> into a who-can-eat-thehottest-food competition.
ROFL ... I can just picture that one.
> True. But take your own loo paper and gut-disease cures <veg>
> E.
euuuwwww ... where do *you* eat? :-D Although dad always said the best
indication of a good Vietnamese Restaurant was the cockroaches climbing the
walls ........
Bron
Agora
"Karl" <bombo...@bombora.com> wrote in message
news:3AAC4D79...@bombora.com...
>
>
> David Moss wrote:
>
> > peter....@bigpond.com.aus (Peter Mackay) wrote in
> > <MPG.15159ce51...@news.bigpond.com>:
> >
> > >A great parade. Not sure why they included the vintage cars, but.
> >
> > The people riding in the cars were ex-prisoners-of-war. Many were too
sick
> > to walk. The exception being the old bloke walking behind the vintage
cars
> > who told organisers "the Japs couldn't get me, so if its all the same to
> > you I'll march". Tough old bugger. He probably wouldn't have been
welcomed
> > at the multicultural parade either. Too Australian.
> >
> > DM
> > personal opinion only
>
> Bloody oath!
>
Not at all. Contrary to what some others in this NG, it is likely that the
diggers were pro white Australia and in the middle of the normal curve
racist - i.e. the same as Japanese, Chinese, and any other group in the
world apart from the intellectiual elites of the West.
Of course it follows he would never have been permitted in anything
multicultural with views like that, unless he was non- Anglo, of course.
>
Agora
--
"Brian" <br...@connect.comdek.net.au> wrote in message
news:3AB43F7A...@connect.comdek.net.au...
> Bron wrote:
> >
> > "Anil Vayper" <cuddly...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:3AB3FE0A...@yahoo.com...
> > > Agora wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Multiculturism is about being aware of, and respecting people's right
to
> > have
> > > different beliefs and value systems.
> >
> > That may be what it's supposed to be about, but in reality this is far
from
> > the case in Australia in 2001. Mind you ... who do we thank for Laksa
..
> > yummy ....
>
> And Indian curries, Lebanonese food, Chinese take-away, Vietnamese
> take-away (tried the Tudor at O'Connor, Bron?), Turkish food, Pizza and
> so on. All excellent examples of how Australians of all walks of life
> and ethnicity sample and experience each other's most prominent cultural
> aspect - food, Bron.
For dinner I ate Chicken, for lunch I have a sandwich, and for breakfast I
have musli. In reality, most Australians eat western food. And is diet the
essence of multiculturalism? Interesting it's the only specific benefit
anyone can ever come up with.
>
> > > You don't have to like it. You just have to
> > > tolerate it. It's not some threat to you and your family.
> >
> > Isn't it? Guess it isn't unless you are an Australian by birth without
any
> > "multicultural" features.
>
> Oh, bullshit, Bron, pure and simple and undistilled.
It is a threat if it reduces social cohesion and leads to the creation of
ethinc crime gangs in Sydney.
>
> > > You don't have to
> > > indulge in someone elses beliefs or learn their language. Just live
and
> > let
> > > live.
> >
> > If only you were right. But by simply being caucasian and continuing to
> > intake oxygen makes you a racist in this country.
>
> Even more bullshit. Do you really believe that or are you merely
> posturing?
-------
"Only white people are capable of being racist."
Inner London Education Authority, Discussion Paper, 1984
Bron
> Bron wrote:
>
> ...followed the next day by the time-honoured 'ring-of-fire' trick.
Awww .. now I think we have all experienced that after a smart arse attempt
to see who can endure the hottest chillie/curry etc :-) ow ow ow ow ow ...
> Some countries have rather interesting interpretations of hygeine.
Hmmm.. true.
> Reminds me of the (new York) student who would only eat at restaurants
sfter
> they had been reopened by the Health Dept people. Apparantly that was the
only
> time they were clean..... gotta love living on a student budget <shudder>
ROFL ... I think he probably missed some very interesting culinary
experiences :-D
Bron
Anil Vayper
> > Heh,... try mongolian BBQ .... with a bunch of pissed gits who want to
> turn it
> > into a who-can-eat-thehottest-food competition.
> ROFL ... I can just picture that one.
...followed the next day by the time-honoured 'ring-of-fire' trick.
> > True. But take your own loo paper and gut-disease cures <veg>
> > E.
> euuuwwww ... where do *you* eat? :-D
Some countries have rather interesting interpretations of hygeine.
> Although dad always said the best
> indication of a good Vietnamese Restaurant was the cockroaches climbing the
> walls ........
> Bron
Reminds me of the (new York) student who would only eat at restaurants sfter
they had been reopened by the Health Dept people. Apparantly that was the only
time they were clean..... gotta love living on a student budget <shudder>
E.
Brian
>
> --
>
> "Brian" <br...@connect.comdek.net.au> wrote in message
> news:3AB43F7A...@connect.comdek.net.au...
> > Bron wrote:
> > >
> > > "Anil Vayper" <cuddly...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3AB3FE0A...@yahoo.com...
> > > > Agora wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Multiculturism is about being aware of, and respecting people's right
> to
> > > have
> > > > different beliefs and value systems.
> > >
> > > That may be what it's supposed to be about, but in reality this is far
> from
> > > the case in Australia in 2001. Mind you ... who do we thank for Laksa
> ..
> > > yummy ....
> >
> > And Indian curries, Lebanonese food, Chinese take-away, Vietnamese
> > take-away (tried the Tudor at O'Connor, Bron?), Turkish food, Pizza and
> > so on. All excellent examples of how Australians of all walks of life
> > and ethnicity sample and experience each other's most prominent cultural
> > aspect - food, Bron.
>
> For dinner I ate Chicken, for lunch I have a sandwich, and for breakfast I
> have musli.
Muesli is Swiss, Aggie. Thats you accepting multiculturalism!
> In reality, most Australians eat western food. And is diet the
> essence of multiculturalism? Interesting it's the only specific benefit
> anyone can ever come up with.
There are other benefits, Aggie. Food is simply the most obvious and
the one which intrudes the most into everybody's everyday life.
> > > > You don't have to like it. You just have to
> > > > tolerate it. It's not some threat to you and your family.
> > >
> > > Isn't it? Guess it isn't unless you are an Australian by birth without
> any
> > > "multicultural" features.
> >
> > Oh, bullshit, Bron, pure and simple and undistilled.
>
> It is a threat if it reduces social cohesion and leads to the creation of
> ethinc crime gangs in Sydney.
Define "social cohesion", Aggie. How do we measure it? Can it be
measured? You and your fellow racists and monoculturalists like to talk
about it but you never define it nor tell us how we can measure it.
Agora
Muslie is western. That the point.
>
> > In reality, most Australians eat western food. And is diet the
> > essence of multiculturalism? Interesting it's the only specific benefit
> > anyone can ever come up with.
>
> There are other benefits, Aggie. Food is simply the most obvious and
> the one which intrudes the most into everybody's everyday life.
What are the other benefits then?
>
> > > > > You don't have to like it. You just have to
> > > > > tolerate it. It's not some threat to you and your family.
> > > >
> > > > Isn't it? Guess it isn't unless you are an Australian by birth
without
> > any
> > > > "multicultural" features.
> > >
> > > Oh, bullshit, Bron, pure and simple and undistilled.
> >
> > It is a threat if it reduces social cohesion and leads to the creation
of
> > ethinc crime gangs in Sydney.
>
> Define "social cohesion", Aggie. How do we measure it? Can it be
> measured? You and your fellow racists and monoculturalists like to talk
> about it but you never define it nor tell us how we can measure it.
Social cohesion is a sense of community that creates an incentive for people
to make an effort for the sake of the group - e.g. in charity, the military,
social service, etc. In socially cohesive societies there are shared goals
and values rather than diversity. Politics is less sectional and more
consensual. People talk to their neighbours and community life is strong;
people have a natural patriotism and the national character and culture is
defined and distinctive.
In socially coesive societies there is more civic participation, as measured
by participation in clubs, charities, political groups, societies, etc.
People socialise with their neighbours and local community and adopt one
culture (i.e. there is no multiculturalism). There is no political division
between the elites and ordinary people - i.e. there is little difference
between public opinion and government policy. There is a distinct national
character which can be observed by visitors and which is different from
ythat of other societies. The nation has its own symbols, history and
traditions that command a broad degree of support and acceptance.
brian
Agora wrote:
Swiss culture is not anglo-saxon/celtic British culture, Aggie.
> > > In reality, most Australians eat western food. And is diet the
> > > essence of multiculturalism? Interesting it's the only specific benefit
> > > anyone can ever come up with.
> >
> > There are other benefits, Aggie. Food is simply the most obvious and
> > the one which intrudes the most into everybody's everyday life.
>
> What are the other benefits then?
There are many, be it from looking at the world in a different manner, not
occulted by the lense of your own culture through to accepting that different
cultures could well have different approaches to how they do things which are as
equally valid as are those of the traditional, Anglo-Saxon/Celtic British one,
Aggie. Different religions is another aspect of culture - Buddhism is the
fastest growing non-Christian religion in Australia, Islam also has its
adherents. Music, one only has to look at the success of such events as the
Womad concerts to see that. Cinema/TV are others. Most I agree are abstract
and not quantifiable, Aggie but then culture itself is a largely abstract
concept which in turn is not quantifiable.
Excellent! A1, a real effort to both define and quantify "social cohesion".
Now, explain to us, Aggie why do you presume that in a multicultural society,
social cohesion has/is being reduced. Provide us with a metre against which
society can be measured at any time. What is say, 0 and what is 100 on your
scale of social cohesion. You can, if you desire, make use of examples drawn
from Australian history to illustrate your major points on the scale.
Mark Addinall
[snipolatta]
> >
> > In socially coesive societies there is more civic participation, as measured
> > by participation in clubs, charities, political groups, societies, etc.
> > People socialise with their neighbours and local community and adopt one
> > culture (i.e. there is no multiculturalism). There is no political division
> > between the elites and ordinary people - i.e. there is little difference
> > between public opinion and government policy. There is a distinct national
> > character which can be observed by visitors and which is different from
> > ythat of other societies. The nation has its own symbols, history and
> > traditions that command a broad degree of support and acceptance.
>
> Excellent! A1, a real effort to both define and quantify "social cohesion".
> Now, explain to us, Aggie why do you presume that in a multicultural society,
> social cohesion has/is being reduced. Provide us with a metre against which
> society can be measured at any time. What is say, 0 and what is 100 on your
> scale of social cohesion. You can, if you desire, make use of examples drawn
> from Australian history to illustrate your major points on the scale.
Vinegar Hill?
You do realise you are attempting to teach a frog how to sing?
See ya later this week or next week for a lunch.
Mark (woomera) Addinall
UBANGI!!!
Krzysztof Wozniak
Agora wrote:
[..]
> Social cohesion is a sense of community that creates an incentive for people
> to make an effort for the sake of the group - e.g. in charity, the military,
> social service, etc. In socially cohesive societies there are shared goals
> and values rather than diversity. Politics is less sectional and more
> consensual. People talk to their neighbours and community life is strong;
> people have a natural patriotism and the national character and culture is
> defined and distinctive.
>
> In socially coesive societies there is more civic participation, as measured
> by participation in clubs, charities, political groups, societies, etc.
> People socialise with their neighbours and local community and adopt one
> culture (i.e. there is no multiculturalism). There is no political division
> between the elites and ordinary people - i.e. there is little difference
> between public opinion and government policy. There is a distinct national
> character which can be observed by visitors and which is different from
> ythat of other societies. The nation has its own symbols, history and
> traditions that command a broad degree of support and acceptance.
Very nice.
After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
rhetoric I have to ask this question:
Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
--
Mr Krzysztof Wozniak ,-_|\ E-mail: K.WO...@cowan.edu.au
Edith Cowan University / \ Phone: 61-8-9273 8026
Churchlands WA, 6018 $_,-._/ Fax: 61-8-9273 8000
Australia o
Agora
"Krzysztof Wozniak" <k.wo...@cowan.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3ACA7D7F...@cowan.edu.au...
Yes, obviously. I think you could have gathered from what I've said. But if
this is a trick question, I wont try to avoid it.
Agora
"brian" <brian_r...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:3AC72759...@my-deja.com...
Except there are very few Swiss immigrants in Australia. I can't blame them
either.
>
> > > > In reality, most Australians eat western food. And is diet the
> > > > essence of multiculturalism? Interesting it's the only specific
benefit
> > > > anyone can ever come up with.
> > >
> > > There are other benefits, Aggie. Food is simply the most obvious and
> > > the one which intrudes the most into everybody's everyday life.
> >
> > What are the other benefits then?
>
> There are many, be it from looking at the world in a different manner, not
> occulted by the lense of your own culture through to accepting that
different
> cultures could well have different approaches to how they do things which
are as
> equally valid as are those of the traditional, Anglo-Saxon/Celtic British
one,
> Aggie. Different religions is another aspect of culture - Buddhism is
the
> fastest growing non-Christian religion in Australia, Islam also has its
> adherents. Music, one only has to look at the success of such events as
the
> Womad concerts to see that. Cinema/TV are others. Most I agree are
abstract
> and not quantifiable,
Good. Thats my whole point.
Aggie but then culture itself is a largely abstract
> concept which in turn is not quantifiable.
Culture can be tangible and specific. Australians celebrate ANZAC day, have
distinctive accents, have unique attitudes (Australians are very
egalitarian, for example), etc.
Less civic participation, an example is the fact that only Anglos seemed to
volunteer for the olympics. Less distinct national character -
multiculturalism is about mixing cultures, not differentiating them.
Political division - e.g. the fact that we have economic rationalism,
multiculturalism, no death penalty, etc. against the preferences of most
Australians. Symbols - Australians are divided over the role of the head of
state. Sectarian - ethnic minorities mainly vote labor and labor is becoming
the party of ethninc minorities. Common history - Australians now come from
all over the world and dont have a common history to look back on. You can
attatch any value onto these things you want, but it cant be exactly
measured in the sense that you can esatablish a balance sheet.
>
>
>
Anil Vayper
> Very nice.
> After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
> rhetoric I have to ask this question:
> Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
What about that foriegner that lit his farts at parliament house and immolated
himself in the process?
Upholding fine traditions of your adopted country is one thing, but for gods sake
get it right!
E.
Michael Lightfoot
>
>
>Agora wrote:
>
[deleted]
>Very nice.
>After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
>rhetoric I have to ask this question:
>Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
>
I haven't really been following this thread, however I just can't
resist pointing out that "Agora" is using and ancient Greek word as his
pseudonym. If he/she/it was so anti-MC why use such an obviously MC
name?
I leave it up to the reader to look up the meaning of Agora. It may
well be an apt description of our little troll.
---
michael
michael....@canb.auug.org.au
http://www.canb.auug.org.au/~michal/
brian
Immaterial. There could be only one and we still recieve the benefits of their
cultural presence here, Aggie.
> > > > > In reality, most Australians eat western food. And is diet the
> > > > > essence of multiculturalism? Interesting it's the only specific
> benefit
> > > > > anyone can ever come up with.
> > > >
> > > > There are other benefits, Aggie. Food is simply the most obvious and
> > > > the one which intrudes the most into everybody's everyday life.
> > >
> > > What are the other benefits then?
> >
> > There are many, be it from looking at the world in a different manner, not
> > occulted by the lense of your own culture through to accepting that
> different
> > cultures could well have different approaches to how they do things which
> are as
> > equally valid as are those of the traditional, Anglo-Saxon/Celtic British
> one,
> > Aggie. Different religions is another aspect of culture - Buddhism is
> the
> > fastest growing non-Christian religion in Australia, Islam also has its
> > adherents. Music, one only has to look at the success of such events as
> the
> > Womad concerts to see that. Cinema/TV are others. Most I agree are
> abstract
> > and not quantifiable,
>
> Good. Thats my whole point.
So, we agree that its not quantifiable. Yet you still insist it is a "bad
thing" whereas I would suggest the evidence counters that claim.
> Aggie but then culture itself is a largely abstract
> > concept which in turn is not quantifiable.
>
> Culture can be tangible and specific. Australians celebrate ANZAC day, have
> distinctive accents, have unique attitudes (Australians are very
> egalitarian, for example), etc.
It can be tangible but it cannot be quantified, Aggie. The two are very
different things.
How do you quantify such things as the "celebration" (personally I'd use the
word observance) of a day of rememberance, accents, attitudes, "etc."?
How do you know all "Australians" (by which I presume you specifically exclude
anybody who is not of Anglo-Saxon/Celtic ancestry?) do these things anyway,
Aggie?
Doesn't answer the questions I asked, Aggie. Go to the back of the class again
and put the dunce's cap on. *SIGH* I was so sure you were starting to progress.
When you think you can answer the question or even if you simply declare you
cannot, then we can progress a little bit further.
Oh, and BTW, how do you _know_ that "only Anglos seemed to volunteer for the
olympics" is a "fact"? Do you have access to a list of all the volunteers and
their ancestry? Considering that Australians of Asian descent make up less
than 8% of the population, Aggie, what proportion would have been noticeable to
you, personally? 1,2,5,8, more than 8%? Why is volunteering to help run the
Olympics such a good measure of social cohesion, Aggie?
Kevin Jordan
> Very nice.
> After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
> rhetoric I have to ask this question:
> Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
>
Maybe he is for the social cohesion that would come from getting rid of
the disruptive element of migrants.
Krzysztof Wozniak
Agora wrote:
> "Krzysztof Wozniak" <k.wo...@cowan.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:3ACA7D7F...@cowan.edu.au...
>
[..]
>
> > Very nice.
> > After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
> > rhetoric I have to ask this question:
> > Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
>
> Yes, obviously. I think you could have gathered from what I've said. But if
> this is a trick question, I wont try to avoid it.
"Yes" for or "Yes" against?
Krzysztof Wozniak
Anil Vayper wrote:
And what about this white guy who killed 35 people in Tasmania.
Upholding local tradition? For gods sake - think!
Krzysztof Wozniak
[..]
> Less civic participation, an example is the fact that only Anglos seemed to
> volunteer for the olympics.
Any proof of this "fact" ?
> Less distinct national character -
> multiculturalism is about mixing cultures, not differentiating them.
Up to now you guys were complaining about MC differentiating cultures
and preventing proper mixing process. What's wrong with ya, mate?
BTW: MC is a part of Australian national character.
> Political division - e.g. the fact that we have economic rationalism,
> multiculturalism, no death penalty, etc. against the preferences of most
> Australians. Symbols - Australians are divided over the role of the head of
> state.
What is wrong with having divisions?
The art is to have divisions and have mechanism to resolve them.
Every act of progress starts from a division.
( Oh, sorry - you must be a conservative :-)
> Sectarian - ethnic minorities mainly vote labor and labor is becoming
Sectarian - one ethnic minority vote Libs
(it is a bullshit argument anyway)
> the party of ethninc minorities.
> Common history - Australians now come from
> all over the world and dont have a common history to look back on. You can
> attatch any value onto these things you want, but it cant be exactly
> measured in the sense that you can esatablish a balance sheet.
Even local do not have much in terms of history
and tend to support themselves with the history of England.
So what is your argument about?
I am a human. Every history book is my history book.
But I can give you even more!
One book for everything!
Has been done before:
"Red Book" by Mao.
"Mein Kampf" by Hilter.
"Kapital" by Marx.
"Short course of history of VKPB(bolshevicks)" by Stalin.
"Hitchhiker's guide to Galaxy" by Douglas Adams
which one you want us to follow?
"Nationalism is an escape for people who don't believe
in a creative potential of own nation"
Stefan Kisielewski
Regards,
Anil Vayper
> And what about this white guy who killed 35 people in Tasmania.
> Upholding local tradition? For gods sake - think!
Sounds more like a public service to me. They were only tasmanians, not real people.
E.
Seppo Renfors
Agora wrote:
>
> "Krzysztof Wozniak" <k.wo...@cowan.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:3ACA7D7F...@cowan.edu.au...
> >
[..]
> > After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
> > rhetoric I have to ask this question:
> > Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
>
> Yes, obviously. I think you could have gathered from what I've said. But if
> this is a trick question, I wont try to avoid it.
BWWWWAAAAAHHHAAAAAAHHAAAAaaaaa.........
Bloody Aggie the Nazi NEVER answers any questions straight... man he
couldn't lie straight in bed.... I think he could hide behind a bloody
cork screw!
--
SIR -Philosopher Unauthorised
------------------------------------------------------------------
" Don't resent getting old. A great many are denied that privilege "
---------------------------------------------------------------
Agora
Muslie is western. That the point.
>
> > In reality, most Australians eat western food. And is diet the
> > essence of multiculturalism? Interesting it's the only specific benefit
> > anyone can ever come up with.
>
> There are other benefits, Aggie. Food is simply the most obvious and
> the one which intrudes the most into everybody's everyday life.
What are the other benefits then?
>
> > > > > You don't have to like it. You just have to
> > > > > tolerate it. It's not some threat to you and your family.
> > > >
> > > > Isn't it? Guess it isn't unless you are an Australian by birth
without
> > any
> > > > "multicultural" features.
> > >
> > > Oh, bullshit, Bron, pure and simple and undistilled.
> >
> > It is a threat if it reduces social cohesion and leads to the creation
of
> > ethinc crime gangs in Sydney.
>
> Define "social cohesion", Aggie. How do we measure it? Can it be
> measured? You and your fellow racists and monoculturalists like to talk
> about it but you never define it nor tell us how we can measure it.
Social cohesion is a sense of community that creates an incentive for people
to make an effort for the sake of the group - e.g. in charity, the military,
social service, etc. In socially cohesive societies there are shared goals
and values rather than diversity. Politics is less sectional and more
consensual. People talk to their neighbours and community life is strong;
people have a natural patriotism and the national character and culture is
defined and distinctive.
In socially coesive societies there is more civic participation, as measured
by participation in clubs, charities, political groups, societies, etc.
People socialise with their neighbours and local community and adopt one
culture (i.e. there is no multiculturalism). There is no political division
between the elites and ordinary people - i.e. there is little difference
between public opinion and government policy. There is a distinct national
character which can be observed by visitors and which is different from
ythat of other societies. The nation has its own symbols, history and
traditions that command a broad degree of support and acceptance.
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cyclone.bc.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <0GEx6.7166$45.4...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>
Control: cancel <0GEx6.7166$45.4...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:20:48 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 32
Sender: "Agora" <ag...@bigpond.com>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <eem24l10cmf803...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986480621 930 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 14:23:41 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:23:41 +0000 (UTC)
X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Fuck-You: Yes You!
Moderatour Cancelled for reckless endangerment to sanity
<remainder snipped>
[reposted because of rogue cancel]
> Very nice.
> After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
> rhetoric I have to ask this question:
> Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
>
Maybe he is for the social cohesion that would come from getting rid of
the disruptive element of migrants.
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newsengine.sol.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!algonet!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!howland.erols.net!nntp.kreonet.re.kr!news-xfer.nuri.net!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <1erdxio.1ocstxy1yjzegpN%kfjo...@ozemail.com.au>
Control: cancel <1erdxio.1ocstxy1yjzegpN%kfjo...@ozemail.com.au>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:18:32 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 75
Sender: kfjo...@ozemail.com.au (Kevin Jordan)
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <cfq13t85fdi446...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986480605 930 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 14:23:25 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:23:25 +0000 (UTC)
Mark Addinall [reposted because of rogue cancel]
[snipolatta]
> >
> > In socially coesive societies there is more civic participation, as measured
> > by participation in clubs, charities, political groups, societies, etc.
> > People socialise with their neighbours and local community and adopt one
> > culture (i.e. there is no multiculturalism). There is no political division
> > between the elites and ordinary people - i.e. there is little difference
> > between public opinion and government policy. There is a distinct national
> > character which can be observed by visitors and which is different from
> > ythat of other societies. The nation has its own symbols, history and
> > traditions that command a broad degree of support and acceptance.
>
> Excellent! A1, a real effort to both define and quantify "social cohesion".
> Now, explain to us, Aggie why do you presume that in a multicultural society,
> social cohesion has/is being reduced. Provide us with a metre against which
> society can be measured at any time. What is say, 0 and what is 100 on your
> scale of social cohesion. You can, if you desire, make use of examples drawn
> from Australian history to illustrate your major points on the scale.
Vinegar Hill?
You do realise you are attempting to teach a frog how to sing?
See ya later this week or next week for a lunch.
Mark (woomera) Addinall
UBANGI!!!
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <3AC7B83E...@bigpond.com>
Control: cancel <3AC7B83E...@bigpond.com>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:20:29 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 44
Sender: Mark Addinall <mark.a...@bigpond.com>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <adg52n84fdz615...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986480618 930 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 14:23:38 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:23:38 +0000 (UTC)
brian [reposted because of rogue cancel]
Agora wrote:
Swiss culture is not anglo-saxon/celtic British culture, Aggie.
> > > In reality, most Australians eat western food. And is diet the
> > > essence of multiculturalism? Interesting it's the only specific benefit
> > > anyone can ever come up with.
> >
> > There are other benefits, Aggie. Food is simply the most obvious and
> > the one which intrudes the most into everybody's everyday life.
>
> What are the other benefits then?
There are many, be it from looking at the world in a different manner, not
occulted by the lense of your own culture through to accepting that different
cultures could well have different approaches to how they do things which are as
equally valid as are those of the traditional, Anglo-Saxon/Celtic British one,
Aggie. Different religions is another aspect of culture - Buddhism is the
fastest growing non-Christian religion in Australia, Islam also has its
adherents. Music, one only has to look at the success of such events as the
Womad concerts to see that. Cinema/TV are others. Most I agree are abstract
and not quantifiable, Aggie but then culture itself is a largely abstract
concept which in turn is not quantifiable.
> > > > > > You don't have to like it. You just have to
Excellent! A1, a real effort to both define and quantify "social cohesion".
Now, explain to us, Aggie why do you presume that in a multicultural society,
social cohesion has/is being reduced. Provide us with a metre against which
society can be measured at any time. What is say, 0 and what is 100 on your
scale of social cohesion. You can, if you desire, make use of examples drawn
from Australian history to illustrate your major points on the scale.
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <3AC72759...@my-deja.com>
Control: cancel <3AC72759...@my-deja.com>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:20:43 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 56
Sender: brian <brian_r...@my-deja.com>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <eeo55f78ahw627...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986480620 930 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 14:23:40 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:23:40 +0000 (UTC)
Krzysztof Wozniak [reposted because of rogue cancel]
Agora wrote:
[..]
> Social cohesion is a sense of community that creates an incentive for people
> to make an effort for the sake of the group - e.g. in charity, the military,
> social service, etc. In socially cohesive societies there are shared goals
> and values rather than diversity. Politics is less sectional and more
> consensual. People talk to their neighbours and community life is strong;
> people have a natural patriotism and the national character and culture is
> defined and distinctive.
>
> In socially coesive societies there is more civic participation, as measured
> by participation in clubs, charities, political groups, societies, etc.
> People socialise with their neighbours and local community and adopt one
> culture (i.e. there is no multiculturalism). There is no political division
> between the elites and ordinary people - i.e. there is little difference
> between public opinion and government policy. There is a distinct national
> character which can be observed by visitors and which is different from
> ythat of other societies. The nation has its own symbols, history and
> traditions that command a broad degree of support and acceptance.
Very nice.
After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
rhetoric I have to ask this question:
Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
--
Mr Krzysztof Wozniak ,-_|\ E-mail: K.WO...@cowan.edu.au
Edith Cowan University / \ Phone: 61-8-9273 8026
Churchlands WA, 6018 $_,-._/ Fax: 61-8-9273 8000
Australia o
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsxfer.interpacket.net!news-xfer.nuri.net!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <3ACA7D7F...@cowan.edu.au>
Control: cancel <3ACA7D7F...@cowan.edu.au>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:19:40 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 68
Sender: Krzysztof Wozniak <k.wo...@cowan.edu.au>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <dck15w58bct272...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986480610 930 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 14:23:30 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:23:30 +0000 (UTC)
Anil Vayper [reposted because of rogue cancel]
> Very nice.
> After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
> rhetoric I have to ask this question:
> Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
What about that foriegner that lit his farts at parliament house and immolated
himself in the process?
Upholding fine traditions of your adopted country is one thing, but for gods sake
get it right!
E.
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp.kreonet.re.kr!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <3ACAF52E...@yahoo.com>
Control: cancel <3ACAF52E...@yahoo.com>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:19:24 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 54
Sender: Anil Vayper <cuddly...@yahoo.com>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <bep13b72fwq855...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986480609 930 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 14:23:29 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:23:29 +0000 (UTC)
brian [reposted because of rogue cancel]
Immaterial. There could be only one and we still recieve the benefits of their
cultural presence here, Aggie.
> > > > > In reality, most Australians eat western food. And is diet the
> > > > > essence of multiculturalism? Interesting it's the only specific
> benefit
> > > > > anyone can ever come up with.
> > > >
> > > > There are other benefits, Aggie. Food is simply the most obvious and
> > > > the one which intrudes the most into everybody's everyday life.
> > >
> > > What are the other benefits then?
> >
> > There are many, be it from looking at the world in a different manner, not
> > occulted by the lense of your own culture through to accepting that
> different
> > cultures could well have different approaches to how they do things which
> are as
> > equally valid as are those of the traditional, Anglo-Saxon/Celtic British
> one,
> > Aggie. Different religions is another aspect of culture - Buddhism is
> the
> > fastest growing non-Christian religion in Australia, Islam also has its
> > adherents. Music, one only has to look at the success of such events as
> the
> > Womad concerts to see that. Cinema/TV are others. Most I agree are
> abstract
> > and not quantifiable,
>
> Good. Thats my whole point.
So, we agree that its not quantifiable. Yet you still insist it is a "bad
thing" whereas I would suggest the evidence counters that claim.
> Aggie but then culture itself is a largely abstract
> > concept which in turn is not quantifiable.
>
> Culture can be tangible and specific. Australians celebrate ANZAC day, have
> distinctive accents, have unique attitudes (Australians are very
> egalitarian, for example), etc.
It can be tangible but it cannot be quantified, Aggie. The two are very
different things.
How do you quantify such things as the "celebration" (personally I'd use the
word observance) of a day of rememberance, accents, attitudes, "etc."?
How do you know all "Australians" (by which I presume you specifically exclude
anybody who is not of Anglo-Saxon/Celtic ancestry?) do these things anyway,
Aggie?
> > > > > > > > You don't have to like it. You just have to
Doesn't answer the questions I asked, Aggie. Go to the back of the class again
and put the dunce's cap on. *SIGH* I was so sure you were starting to progress.
When you think you can answer the question or even if you simply declare you
cannot, then we can progress a little bit further.
Oh, and BTW, how do you _know_ that "only Anglos seemed to volunteer for the
olympics" is a "fact"? Do you have access to a list of all the volunteers and
their ancestry? Considering that Australians of Asian descent make up less
than 8% of the population, Aggie, what proportion would have been noticeable to
you, personally? 1,2,5,8, more than 8%? Why is volunteering to help run the
Olympics such a good measure of social cohesion, Aggie?
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp.kreonet.re.kr!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <3ACB1B65...@my-deja.com>
Control: cancel <3ACB1B65...@my-deja.com>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:19:03 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 48
Sender: brian <brian_r...@my-deja.com>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <bec36j25fbr230...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986480608 930 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 14:23:28 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:23:28 +0000 (UTC)
Krzysztof Wozniak [reposted because of rogue cancel]
Agora wrote:
> "Krzysztof Wozniak" <k.wo...@cowan.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:3ACA7D7F...@cowan.edu.au...
>
[..]
>
> > Very nice.
> > After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
> > rhetoric I have to ask this question:
> > Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
>
> Yes, obviously. I think you could have gathered from what I've said. But if
> this is a trick question, I wont try to avoid it.
"Yes" for or "Yes" against?
--
Mr Krzysztof Wozniak ,-_|\ E-mail: K.WO...@cowan.edu.au
Edith Cowan University / \ Phone: 61-8-9273 8026
Churchlands WA, 6018 $_,-._/ Fax: 61-8-9273 8000
Australia o
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newsengine.sol.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!feed.textport.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <3ACBE4F4...@cowan.edu.au>
Control: cancel <3ACBE4F4...@cowan.edu.au>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:18:29 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 57
Sender: Krzysztof Wozniak <k.wo...@cowan.edu.au>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <cem77s33eum472...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986480605 930 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 14:23:25 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:23:25 +0000 (UTC)
Krzysztof Wozniak [reposted because of rogue cancel]
Anil Vayper wrote:
And what about this white guy who killed 35 people in Tasmania.
Upholding local tradition? For gods sake - think!
--
Mr Krzysztof Wozniak ,-_|\ E-mail: K.WO...@cowan.edu.au
Edith Cowan University / \ Phone: 61-8-9273 8026
Churchlands WA, 6018 $_,-._/ Fax: 61-8-9273 8000
Australia o
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <3ACBE6E0...@cowan.edu.au>
Control: cancel <3ACBE6E0...@cowan.edu.au>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:18:27 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 63
Sender: Krzysztof Wozniak <k.wo...@cowan.edu.au>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <ebd86l11ccq187...@aol.com>
Krzysztof Wozniak [reposted because of rogue cancel]
[..]
> Less civic participation, an example is the fact that only Anglos seemed to
> volunteer for the olympics.
Any proof of this "fact" ?
> Less distinct national character -
> multiculturalism is about mixing cultures, not differentiating them.
Up to now you guys were complaining about MC differentiating cultures
and preventing proper mixing process. What's wrong with ya, mate?
BTW: MC is a part of Australian national character.
> Political division - e.g. the fact that we have economic rationalism,
> multiculturalism, no death penalty, etc. against the preferences of most
> Australians. Symbols - Australians are divided over the role of the head of
> state.
What is wrong with having divisions?
The art is to have divisions and have mechanism to resolve them.
Every act of progress starts from a division.
( Oh, sorry - you must be a conservative :-)
> Sectarian - ethnic minorities mainly vote labor and labor is becoming
Sectarian - one ethnic minority vote Libs
(it is a bullshit argument anyway)
> the party of ethninc minorities.
> Common history - Australians now come from
> all over the world and dont have a common history to look back on. You can
> attatch any value onto these things you want, but it cant be exactly
> measured in the sense that you can esatablish a balance sheet.
Even local do not have much in terms of history
and tend to support themselves with the history of England.
So what is your argument about?
I am a human. Every history book is my history book.
But I can give you even more!
One book for everything!
Has been done before:
"Red Book" by Mao.
"Mein Kampf" by Hilter.
"Kapital" by Marx.
"Short course of history of VKPB(bolshevicks)" by Stalin.
"Hitchhiker's guide to Galaxy" by Douglas Adams
which one you want us to follow?
"Nationalism is an escape for people who don't believe
in a creative potential of own nation"
Stefan Kisielewski
Regards,
--
Mr Krzysztof Wozniak ,-_|\ E-mail: K.WO...@cowan.edu.au
Edith Cowan University / \ Phone: 61-8-9273 8026
Churchlands WA, 6018 $_,-._/ Fax: 61-8-9273 8000
Australia o
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newsengine.sol.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!feed.textport.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <3ACBF85A...@cowan.edu.au>
Control: cancel <3ACBF85A...@cowan.edu.au>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:18:23 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 32
Sender: Krzysztof Wozniak <k.wo...@cowan.edu.au>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <ccn83x61arj678...@aol.com>
Anil Vayper [reposted because of rogue cancel]
> And what about this white guy who killed 35 people in Tasmania.
> Upholding local tradition? For gods sake - think!
Sounds more like a public service to me. They were only tasmanians, not real people.
E.
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newsengine.sol.net!newsfeeds.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!129.240.148.23.MISMATCH!uio.no!codeine.org!news.stealth.net!news-dc.gip.net!news-fw.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <3ACC135F...@yahoo.com>
Control: cancel <3ACC135F...@yahoo.com>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 15:59:06 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 50
Sender: Anil Vayper <cuddly...@yahoo.com>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <dfs75t37cfa870...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986486263 5199 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 15:57:43 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:57:43 +0000 (UTC)
Seppo Renfors [reposted because of rogue cancel]
Agora wrote:
>
> "Krzysztof Wozniak" <k.wo...@cowan.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:3ACA7D7F...@cowan.edu.au...
> >
[..]
> > After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
> > rhetoric I have to ask this question:
> > Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
>
> Yes, obviously. I think you could have gathered from what I've said. But if
> this is a trick question, I wont try to avoid it.
BWWWWAAAAAHHHAAAAAAHHAAAAaaaaa.........
Bloody Aggie the Nazi NEVER answers any questions straight... man he
couldn't lie straight in bed.... I think he could hide behind a bloody
cork screw!
--
SIR -Philosopher Unauthorised
------------------------------------------------------------------
" Don't resent getting old. A great many are denied that privilege "
---------------------------------------------------------------
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <3ACC7406...@not.ollus.com.au>
Control: cancel <3ACC7406...@not.ollus.com.au>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:17:40 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 57
Sender: Seppo Renfors <Ren...@not.ollus.com.au>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <aet50h45ckb258...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986480601 930 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 14:23:21 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:23:21 +0000 (UTC)
Kevin Jordan
Agora
"Krzysztof Wozniak" <k.wo...@cowan.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3ACA7D7F...@cowan.edu.au...
>
>
Yes, obviously. I think you could have gathered from what I've said. But if
this is a trick question, I wont try to avoid it.
>
> --
> Mr Krzysztof Wozniak ,-_|\ E-mail: K.WO...@cowan.edu.au
> Edith Cowan University / \ Phone: 61-8-9273 8026
> Churchlands WA, 6018 $_,-._/ Fax: 61-8-9273 8000
> Australia o
>
>
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!news.stealth.net!news-dc.gip.net!news-fw.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <7ZBy6.8876$45.5...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>
Control: cancel <7ZBy6.8876$45.5...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:19:32 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 32
Sender: "Agora" <ag...@bigpond.com>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <cab06o65alg467...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986480609 930 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 14:23:29 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:23:29 +0000 (UTC)
Agora
>
> > > > In reality, most Australians eat western food. And is diet the
> > > > essence of multiculturalism? Interesting it's the only specific
benefit
> > > > anyone can ever come up with.
> > >
> > > There are other benefits, Aggie. Food is simply the most obvious and
> > > the one which intrudes the most into everybody's everyday life.
> >
> > What are the other benefits then?
>
> There are many, be it from looking at the world in a different manner, not
> occulted by the lense of your own culture through to accepting that
different
> cultures could well have different approaches to how they do things which
are as
> equally valid as are those of the traditional, Anglo-Saxon/Celtic British
one,
> Aggie. Different religions is another aspect of culture - Buddhism is
the
> fastest growing non-Christian religion in Australia, Islam also has its
> adherents. Music, one only has to look at the success of such events as
the
> Womad concerts to see that. Cinema/TV are others. Most I agree are
abstract
> and not quantifiable,
Good. Thats my whole point.
Aggie but then culture itself is a largely abstract
> concept which in turn is not quantifiable.
Culture can be tangible and specific. Australians celebrate ANZAC day, have
distinctive accents, have unique attitudes (Australians are very
egalitarian, for example), etc.
>
> > > > > > > You don't have to like it. You just have to
> > > > > > > tolerate it. It's not some threat to you and your family.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Isn't it? Guess it isn't unless you are an Australian by birth
> > without
> > > > any
> > > > > > "multicultural" features.
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh, bullshit, Bron, pure and simple and undistilled.
> > > >
> > > > It is a threat if it reduces social cohesion and leads to the
creation
> > of
> > > > ethinc crime gangs in Sydney.
> > >
> > > Define "social cohesion", Aggie. How do we measure it? Can it be
> > > measured? You and your fellow racists and monoculturalists like to
talk
> > > about it but you never define it nor tell us how we can measure it.
> >
> > Social cohesion is a sense of community that creates an incentive for
people
> > to make an effort for the sake of the group - e.g. in charity, the
military,
> > social service, etc. In socially cohesive societies there are shared
goals
> > and values rather than diversity. Politics is less sectional and more
> > consensual. People talk to their neighbours and community life is
strong;
> > people have a natural patriotism and the national character and culture
is
> > defined and distinctive.
> >
> > In socially coesive societies there is more civic participation, as
measured
> > by participation in clubs, charities, political groups, societies, etc.
> > People socialise with their neighbours and local community and adopt one
> > culture (i.e. there is no multiculturalism). There is no political
division
> > between the elites and ordinary people - i.e. there is little difference
> > between public opinion and government policy. There is a distinct
national
> > character which can be observed by visitors and which is different from
> > ythat of other societies. The nation has its own symbols, history and
> > traditions that command a broad degree of support and acceptance.
>
> Excellent! A1, a real effort to both define and quantify "social
cohesion".
> Now, explain to us, Aggie why do you presume that in a multicultural
society,
> social cohesion has/is being reduced. Provide us with a metre against
which
> society can be measured at any time. What is say, 0 and what is 100 on
your
> scale of social cohesion. You can, if you desire, make use of examples
drawn
> from Australian history to illustrate your major points on the scale.
Less civic participation, an example is the fact that only Anglos seemed to
volunteer for the olympics. Less distinct national character -
multiculturalism is about mixing cultures, not differentiating them.
Political division - e.g. the fact that we have economic rationalism,
multiculturalism, no death penalty, etc. against the preferences of most
Australians. Symbols - Australians are divided over the role of the head of
state. Sectarian - ethnic minorities mainly vote labor and labor is becoming
the party of ethninc minorities. Common history - Australians now come from
all over the world and dont have a common history to look back on. You can
attatch any value onto these things you want, but it cant be exactly
measured in the sense that you can esatablish a balance sheet.
>
>
>
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!feed.textport.net!news.stealth.net!news-dc.gip.net!news-fw.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <VXBy6.8875$45.5...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>
Control: cancel <VXBy6.8875$45.5...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:19:33 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 68
Sender: "Agora" <ag...@bigpond.com>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <dey14e33col416...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986480610 930 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 14:23:30 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:23:30 +0000 (UTC)
Michael Lightfoot
>
>
>Agora wrote:
>
[deleted]
>Very nice.
>After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
>rhetoric I have to ask this question:
>Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
>
I haven't really been following this thread, however I just can't
resist pointing out that "Agora" is using and ancient Greek word as his
pseudonym. If he/she/it was so anti-MC why use such an obviously MC
name?
I leave it up to the reader to look up the meaning of Agora. It may
well be an apt description of our little troll.
---
michael
michael....@canb.auug.org.au
http://www.canb.auug.org.au/~michal/
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
From: Aussie Renegade <AussieR...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: canb.general,alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,soc.men,rec.gardens,alt.support.single-parents,alt.test,aus.politics,alt.fan.tomsq,alt.recovery.dorothy
Subject: cmsg cancel <zvpunryyvtugsbbgpnaonh...@newshost.tip.net.au>
Control: cancel <zvpunryyvtugsbbgpnaonh...@newshost.tip.net.au>
Date: 5 Apr 2001 14:19:05 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 32
Sender: "Michael Lightfoot" <michal-bur...@canb.auug.org.au>
Approved: AussieR...@aol.com
Message-ID: <acu43p31asi207...@aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.55.8.141
X-Trace: news2-2.kornet.net 986480608 930 211.55.8.141 (5 Apr 2001 14:23:28 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@news.kornet.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:23:28 +0000 (UTC)
X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Fuck-You: Yes You!
Path: news.sol.net!spool0-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newsengine.sol.net!news.mindspring.net!finch!andromeda.5sc.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!news.stealth.net!news-dc.gip.net!news-fw.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!AussieRenegade!cyberspam!not-for-mail
Seppo Renfors
So what do you do about home grown "disruptive elements"? The answer
must be "get rid of them too" the question is how? Deportation -can't
be done. Internment - kind of expensive I would think - besides they
are still here.
Agora
"Michael Lightfoot [reposted because of rogue cancel]"
<michal-bur...@canb.auug.org.au> wrote in message
news:0$-__-$-%$%%$%%-%$@news.noc.cabal.int...
> On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 09:48:47 +0800, Krzysztof Wozniak wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Agora wrote:
> >
> [deleted]
> >Very nice.
> >After reading so much your anti-migrant and anti-mc
> >rhetoric I have to ask this question:
> >Are you for or against social cohesion in Australia, Agora?
> >
> I haven't really been following this thread, however I just can't
> resist pointing out that "Agora" is using and ancient Greek word as his
> pseudonym. If he/she/it was so anti-MC why use such an obviously MC
> name?
I liked the word agora because I admire the ancient Greeks and their
politics. The Greeks were also cultural and ethnic chauvanists, not MC-
types.