Article Evolution & Migration

[rniyengar]

Dear Members:
I enjoyed reading the article. It presents a fairly detailed review of
the traditional position using Puranas as the main PramaaNas. However
I am concerned with the dismissive approach the article takes in
several places. (P1. . as it is apparently absurd…) . The reflection
of the concept of evolution in the Dashaavataara is metaphorical. If
the Avtaras are to be taken in a literal sense a reasonable and
verifiable historical time line has to be presented. I feel the phrase
“Indian Tradition” does not convey any strict or unanimous meaning
particularly in the context of criticizing the western mode of
thinking broadly known as “Science”. Science does not claim to
explain every question that the human mind may conjure up, but it
proceeds on the basis of propositions, hypothesis, conjectures and
verification. If a better theory or explanation or generalization is
available scientists will have no hesitation in recognizing the same.
Acceptance may take time but will happen in course of time. Galileo
was accepted like this only. Newton’s physics was shown to be invalid
at some time and space scales by Einstein. In the recent Current
Science there is an interesting editorial “Trouble with Science”

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/10sep2010/553.pdf

Science does not insist that it is telling the last word, where as I
am afraid the article by Dr.Pandurangi proposes that “Indian
Tradition” knows all and the last word has been said about creation.
Modern cosmologists do estimate the size and shape of the universe.
I like to put forth a few points for the general consideration of the
learned members of this group (Not about the article).
1. Whatever are the strong and useful thoughts of Indian tradition
they are recognized the world over (this includes the “children of
Mcaulay”). For example: Ayurveda, Linguistics, Music, Numbers &
mathematics and undoubtedly Yoga and spirituality.
2. Puranas contain lot of useful information, perhaps not investigated
properly. But just falling on a few lines here and there will not be
convincing if proposed as logical thought. First and foremost
“puraaNamityeva na saadhu sarvam” and we should not accept any
statement without questioning. This includes the lengths of the
Chaturyugas. Is this to be taken as history in the sense that the
Talikota battle was in 1565 AD or India got independence in 1947? The
long time lines of the Puranas are no doubt interesting in the sense
Science proposes “geological time scales”. Unless a logically
consistent historical timeline for the 18 puranas is developed by
scholars, “Science” will always have the upper hand over “Indian
tradition”.
3. There is nothing like Indian Science and Western Science. Finally
Science is non-dogmatic. It accepts logical approach subject to
verifiability, repeatability. At present Science uses only the five
senses for getting knowledge. But a time may come when ‘consciousness’
or some other equivalent faculty gets included in the process of
getting valid knowledge.
4. The so called Indian traditional science subjects “Nyaaya,
vaisheshika, Jyotisha-gaNita” have not grown along their respective
developmental affinities in the last nearly 200 years. Nyaaya
tradition accepts Yogi-janya-jnaana as valid. But no Naiyyayika has
pursued this further to show scientifically verifiable results can be
obtained along this line.
5. Ingalls (from Harvard) in his book on Nyaaya clearly brought out
mathematical logic was foreshadowed 100 years before Boole by the
logicians of Navadvipa. The important message is “tradition” like
water has to be flowing otherwise it becomes stale and newer
generations will look at such knowledge as inferior. (Tragedy as far
as “traditional Indian” science subjects are concerned).
6. We are in a special time period as far as Indian culture/history is
concerned. The discovery of Harappa, Mohenjodaro, Dholavira and the
Indus-Sarasvati civilization has brought in new lines of thinking
about our ancient history. But unfortunately “Indian Tradition” has
had nothing important to say on this topic. I am not suggesting that
there may be nothing, but no serious effort has been made by
traditional Sanskrit scholars about investigating ‘historical/
cultural’ links other than stating what is said in the Puranas.

Excuse me for the long post. The message and the article encouraged me
to pen down some of my thoughts and I thank Sri Pandurangi for this. I
am interested deeply in Sanskrit tradition, but my sorrow is no new
scientific knowledge development is happening presently in the country
along traditional lines.

With regards

RN Iyengar

[Dr. S. Ramakrishna Sharma]

अभिवन्द्य,

>I am interested deeply in Sanskrit tradition, but my sorrow is no new
scientific knowledge development is happening presently in the country
along traditional lines.

Keeping precisely this very observation in view, "Decoding Veda Vidya",
a Three Day International Conference is being organized during in January,2011.
(The Brochure is mailed to Sri R.N Iyengar separately.)
About 36 Abstracts of the Papers received on different topics suggested during personal
interactions with many scientists and scholars who have Samskrutam and
Science background are being peer-viewed. The select 18 will be presented
during the Seminar Sessions scheduled for two days(6x3=18 papers).

There will be a Work Camp on Vedic Research Methodology after the Symposium
on "Identifying Multidisciplinary Areas for Research and Development in Vedic
and Traditional Resources".

The Panel Discussion will be on " अनन्ता: वै  वेदा:; अनन्तार्था:"
The list of tittles of all the Abstracts/Papers will be posted in the Google Group:
Foundation for Indian Scientific Heritage and also Bharatiya Vidvat Parishat.

प्रणाम:

2010/9/19 rniyengar <narayana...@gmail.com>

--
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

--
Aangirasa/Dr.S.Ramakrishna Sharma. M.A.,Ph.D.(Eng.Lit.),Ph.D.(Sanskrit.).

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Dear RNI: Thank you for a stimulating post. IMO - It is unfortunate that Indians take puraaNa as last word and get trapped in their own tentacles and Western Indoilogists exploit to the fullest. I request scholars to consider removing the word "Indian Mythology" as being equivalent to "puraana".  As far as I know the word Mythology finds it's derivation from Mythos - meaning false, untrue,  where as term puraaNa is defined as "puraa navam bhavati" (Meaning - Where one find new things).  I believe that that as the reason why Sage Vyasa expressed his concerns and suggested "itihäsapuräëäbhyäà vedaà samupabåàhayet | bibhetyalpaçrutädvedo mämayaà prahariñyati (ma. bhä. ädiparva 1.293.-294.)". To me this suggests that Brahmins were often closed minded and could not get the full picture of importance of Veda. Considering the social structure during his period and recognizing that Brahmins were not the only folks who should qualify for liberation and that is why he penned mahaabhaarata. stréçüdradvijabandhünäà trayé na çrutigocarä | iti bhäratamäkhyänaà kåopayä muninä kåtam || bhägavata (1.4.25.) || I hope to release my book "Science of Smart Liviing - Gaëeça püjä", that focuses on the the principals of science  that find direct application ( viniyoga) in our lives. Kind regards, Yadu --- On Sun, 9/19/10, rniyengar <narayana...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Veeranarayana Pandurangi]

thanks to Dr. Iyengar for detailed reveiw. this is the kind of reviw I expected from learned members.

one point that I am thinking (post artical 2010, it was published in 2009) is the timeframe described by the puranas. it seems that something has been cooked by wrong interpretation of jyotishagranthas. it is suggested by Pandit Ananta sharma, who is a very good puranic scholar (Sahitya peethadhyaksha in JRRSU). he suggests that the chronology of kings does not suite the time desribed in purananas.

my artical is the first step in this study as stated in the article. anyway we have to go a long way before we can conlude it.

Institutional  personal and inherited works we do on Nyaya and Vedanta have pose obstacle on my puranical studies. we hope for better.

2010/9/19 rniyengar <narayana...@gmail.com>

--
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

--

Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi
Head, Dept of Darshanas,
Yoganandacharya Bhavan,
Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026.

अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।