Improvement over 1 month

[StephenK]

Before n-backing, my IQ lay in the region between 109 and 120 (most
online tests always put me in the 113-120 range, but the MENSA test
only gave me a result of 109). I've probably completed 10 IQ tests
over the last 3 years and my scores seem to be relatively consistent.
I feel as if I've established a solid enough baseline to work from.

I've always noticed that my working and short term memory is lacking
-- I think this is mostly due to the severe anxiety I have. I'm 20
years old and have been dual-n backing for about 10 days now. I'm
currently doing Dual 5-back (1.5 second intervals), variable 2-back
and tri-combination 2-back. I'm going to continue playing until I've
reached 28 days, take an IQ test and post results here.

Will update with progress over the coming weeks.

Also, two questions: Is playing dual n-back for 1.5 hours a day a good
or a bad thing? I've heard that most people are putting in 30-40
minutes a day. And where can I find some reliable IQ tests online?

Note to the moderators* Please delete the previous thread I posted (I
hit enter to create a new paragraph, but ended up posting by mistake).

[Windt]

Excellent. You seem to be progressing fairly quickly with dual n-back.
Dual 5 back took me about 2 months~2 1/2 months. As for reliable
online IQ test, I would recommend denmark IQ test. I believe it is an
accurate assesment and doesn't try to sell you anything.

http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf

[Pontus Granström]

Mensa test? Online or supervised?

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[Pontus Granström]

You should keep in mind though that the correlation between IQ-tests rarely exceeds 0.65. With the exception for test-retest using the same test which can get as high as 0.89.

[Green]

Pontus,

Where did you get that test-retest correlation figure for IQ
tests? I'm curious because I'd like to look up correlations on other
cognitive tests.

[Pontus Granström]

I've read them in various research articles.

[Colin Dickerman]

Do you know of any research on retesting a year or more apart?

[Pontus Granström]

 I think it's independent of time.

[Colin Dickerman]

So we should expect a person to do better on an IQ test 5 years apart?
That seems hard to believe considering you spent 40 minutes, or
however long the test is. That's very little practice for your brain
to store long term and draw upon.

[Pontus Granström]

It's well known that you tend to improve from time one to two. Mainly because you get used to the situation. A factor that cannot be underestimated. Similar to that you always get higher blood pressure
at the doctor than when you are at home. If you run 3k for the first time you will almost certainly improve time two since you know more how you should dispose the race, what it feels like etc.

[Colin Dickerman]

So what does that mean for people that want to test more than twice?

If you run a race, wouldn't learning to pace yourself get you so far
until you run the race at the same time every time?

[Pontus Granström]

That was my point. But you also have to take into consideration the "observation principle" if you like. If you ask someone to come to a "foreign location" and test the maximum of their mental ability
that things like stress and anxiety might play a role. That why you see improvements from time one to time two. I know many people including myself who improved a lot taking IQ-tests with months apart just because you know what to do.

[Colin Dickerman]

But what I'm asking is wether after you get past the newness of it if
that would account for scores going up after several tests.

If you do it enough to know what the test entails, but don't practice
the test, would your scores go up?

[Pontus Granström]

Depends on which test you take. If you take matrix test due to the Flynn effect it will probably do so, but since it seems that it has come to a stall it might not.
Arithmetic, digit span tests and so on are less influenced (on a group level) by retest effects.

[StephenK]

So I am confident with moving from dual 5-back to dual 6-back (got
stuck on dual 5-back for about 6 days). I'm averaging 90-100% on dual
5-back now, and 60 - 70% on dual 6-back. I found that while initially
doing dual 5-back, I could memorize the first five with ease, but then
was only able to memorize the previous 4 positions and sounds when the
first 5 were done(so I was effectively always lagging 1 position/sound
behind, having to 'update' the fifth in my mind). I'm still sticking
to tri-combination 2 back, but have moved up to variable 4-back. So
far, I'm finding tri-combination n-back the most mentally stimulating
(I feel far more mentally fatigued after combination n-back than I do
with dual n-back.)

[Simen]

Wow I must say you really show some improvement! I for example have
been stuck on dual 4-back for about 3-4 weeks now. Hoping to level
soon.

[StephenK]

I'm still doing dual 6-back at the moment. To be perfectly honest, I'm
just not finding the dual n-back mode stimulating anymore. Sure, I'm
struggling with dual 6-back, but I don't feel mentally fatigued when
I'm done with it. I'll get the answers wrong in dual 6-back, but I
don't feel confused or 'brain-tied' like I did with dual 4 and 5-back.
On the other hand, variable n-back and tri-combination n-back is
leaving me feeling mentally fatigued. Not sure if it is good to leave
the dual-n back mode, but something tells me that my brain is being
worked out the most when I am actively struggling to understand what
is going on.

[Colin Dickerman]

I have the same thing happen. Maybe it means our brains are too
accustomed to it.

[Millicent Bliesener]

I'm a bit confused - for several years, Mensa hasn't provided its
test-takers with an actual score; they just tell you whether you
qualified for the organization or not. How were you able to get a
score?

Millicent

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[StephenK]

Hmm, perhaps it wasn't a Mensa test I took then. The test was done
online, about 2 years ago -- I found a link to it on a forum I
frequent. All that I remember was that it was substantially harder
than the other tests I've taken. I Don't know why I remember it being
a Mensa test. Then again, I haven't got the greatest memory in the
world either. Maybe I just assumed that it was a mensa test because
of its difficulty. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/brain-training?hl=en.

[Millicent Bliesener]

Actually, that could be a possibility. They used to have a practice
test people could take online to help people see if they'd likely
qualify. That may have given a score. I'm not sure what they did
with it, but I don't find it there lately.

Millicent

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training?hl=en.

[StephenK]

I just went to the Mensa site. It seems that they only offer
'practice' tests there, but the test layout seems different from what
I remember.

[StephenK]

So, I've spent about one and a half months on dual-n-back. I did the
http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf test and got an IQ of 123.

To be honest, I'm surprised that I managed to get that high of a
score, since my visuo-spatial abilities are generally poor (my
lumosity scores for the visuo-spatial games are very weak), and all
the questions had strong visuo-spatial elements to them. I have been
training with quadruple-stim Position, Sound2 -1-back with 2.5 second
intervals for the last 3 weeks (mainly to target my poor visuo-spatial
skills).

On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, StephenK <stephenk9...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Pontus Granström]

I got the same problem as you, my spatial skills are not in line with my general intelligence. Matrix problems put quite much emphasis on spatial and perceptual processing.

[StephenK]

I went back and looked at the answers to the test and found them to be
quite infuriating. Many of the questions I answered incorrectly came
down to errors in holding the images in my mind, rather than not fully
understanding the logic underlying the problem. For instance, in 4 or
5 of the questions, objects underwent a simple transformation (which I
had fully identified and understood), but because of my poor spatial
sense, the way I transformed the object in my minds eye lead to an
invalid answer. One can fully understand the processes involved, but
fail because ones' visuo-spatial sense lets them down. Slightly
annoying...

On Sep 13, 6:30 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I got the same problem as you, my spatial skills are not in line with my
> general intelligence. Matrix problems put quite much emphasis on spatial and
> perceptual processing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 5:24 PM, StephenK <stephenk9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So, I've spent about one and a half months on dual-n-back. I did the

> >http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swftest and got an IQ of 123.

[Pontus Granström]

That's why I find it so funny that some people claim that you can solve these kinds of problems without any working memory capacity.

[StephenK]

True. What I personally find confusing is that there seems to be
different types of working memory. For example, my working memory
digit-span is 9 digits (10 if I'm lucky) -- which is way above the
norm. I am very good at seeing patterns in numbers, but when it comes
to spatial transformations (rotations, remembering the location of
colors, etc.) I find that I hit a mental 'bottleneck'. Are there
different types of working memory?

On Sep 13, 8:51 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That's why I find it so funny that some people claim that you can solve
> these kinds of problems without any working memory capacity.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 8:48 PM, StephenK <stephenk9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I went back and looked at the answers to the test and found them to be
> > quite infuriating. Many of the questions I answered incorrectly came
> > down to errors in holding the images in my mind, rather than not fully
> > understanding the logic underlying the problem. For instance, in 4 or
> > 5 of the questions, objects underwent a simple transformation (which I
> > had fully identified and understood), but because of my poor spatial
> > sense, the way I transformed the object in my minds eye lead to an
> > invalid answer. One can fully understand the processes involved, but
> > fail because ones' visuo-spatial sense lets them down. Slightly
> > annoying...
> > On Sep 13, 6:30 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I got the same problem as you, my spatial skills are not in line with my
> > > general intelligence. Matrix problems put quite much emphasis on spatial
> > and
> > > perceptual processing.
>
> > > On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 5:24 PM, StephenK <stephenk9...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > So, I've spent about one and a half months on dual-n-back. I did the

> > > >http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swftestand got an IQ of 123.

[Pontus Granström]

Indeed there is, and by the description of your profile I finally found a soul mate ;)

[Pontus Granström]

I have posted various research on matrix tests and brain scans. You need both reasoning and visual memory, while number patterns are pure measures of your reasoning. Much of problem in RAPM lies in it's presentation of the
problem. Some researchers even dimiss the idea of RAPM being a reasoning test (Hunt).

[Pontus Granström]

Abstract

We examined brain activation, as measured by functional magnetic resonance imaging, during problem solving in seven young, healthy participants. Participants solved problems selected from the Raven's Progressive Matrices Test, a test known to predict performance on a wide range of reasoning tasks. In three conditions, participants solved problems requiring (1) analytic reasoning; (2) figural or visuospatial reasoning; or (3) simple pattern matching that served as a perceptual-motor control. Right frontal and bilateral parietal regions were activated more by figural than control problems. Bilateral frontal and left parietal, occipital, and temporal regions were activated more by analytic than figural problems. All of these regions were activated more by analytic than match problems. Many of these activations occurred in regions associated with working memory. Figural reasoning activated areas involved in spatial and object working memory. Analytic reasoning activated additional areas involved in verbal working memory and domain-independent associative and executive processes. These results suggest that fluid reasoning is mediated by a composite of working memory systems.

[ailambris]

Why does my green tea taste like water?

On Sep 17, 5:08 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  *Abstract*

>
> We examined brain activation, as measured by functional magnetic resonance
> imaging, during problem solving in seven young, healthy participants.
> Participants solved problems selected from the Raven's Progressive Matrices
> Test, a test known to predict performance on a wide range of reasoning
> tasks. In three conditions, participants solved problems requiring (1)
> analytic reasoning; (2) figural or visuospatial reasoning; or (3) simple
> pattern matching that served as a perceptual-motor control. Right frontal
> and bilateral parietal regions were activated more by figural than control
> problems. Bilateral frontal and left parietal, occipital, and temporal
> regions were activated more by analytic than figural problems. All of these
> regions were activated more by analytic than match problems. Many of these

> activations occurred in regions associated with working memory. * Figural

> reasoning activated areas involved in spatial and object working

> memory.*Analytic reasoning activated additional areas involved in

> verbal working
> memory and domain-independent associative and executive processes. These
> results suggest that fluid reasoning is mediated by a composite of working
> memory systems.
>

> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have posted various research on matrix tests and brain scans. You need
> > both reasoning and visual memory, while number patterns are pure measures of
> > your reasoning. Much of problem in RAPM lies in it's presentation of the
> > problem. Some researchers even dimiss the idea of RAPM being a reasoning
> > test (Hunt).
>

> > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Indeed there is, and by the description of your profile I finally found a
> >> soul mate ;)
>

> >>> > > > >http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swftestandgot an IQ of 123.

[genvirO]

How do you store your green tea? I once had the same problem because
they were not stored in a tightly ceiled container and away from the
death star (the sun).

> > >>> > > > >http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swftestandgotan IQ of 123.