16 iq points higher in just 11 days of training
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hypersenses
Feb 18, 2012, 3:45:39 PM2/18/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Hello Guys,
I know of the existence of dual n back since the research paper came
out (in 2008?) But did never serious training on it, just because i
thought intelligence is in the genes. Well, i know better know because
that's just a small part of the story.
I liked IQ tests, especially the iqtest.dk.
I did it for the last time between 1-2 years ago. My score was 110,
i'm pretty sure.
I scored never higher than 110, but also not much lower than 110.
Guess i had just average intelligence and i was feeling that way too.
On the weschler test i did 3-4 years ago i scored 107. so if i
formulate it correctly my fluid intelligence was in line with my
general intelligence.
Now i do it for 11 consequent days, just 25 minutes a day and mostly
at this point 2-3-4 back.
But after the third day i felt much more clarity and better ability to
formulate things, because my memory seemed so much better.
Take note that i'm really an extremely sensitive person, so that is
probably the reason i felt it so quickly.
Today i decided to do the iqtest.dk test again, because i was excited
to do it and not wait till the 19th day. My expectation was a iq in
the 110-115 range, but guess what i scored 126.
And not only that, i feel my problem solving is much more in control
and faster. At the difficult problems i seem to have more ability to
concentrate on multiple layers of the problem and have better overview
over the problem.
Together with reading a lot (newspapers) i felt also an very
significant improvement in my vocabulary. It seems the only thing to
do to get the gf gains to general intelligence as measured on a
weschler test is to do something with your gf gains. I expect an
higher weschler full scale iq, somewhere in the 120-130 range. Don't
think that i don't go on with dual n back, i added it in my schedule
every day - in the morning.
hypersenses
I know of the existence of dual n back since the research paper came
out (in 2008?) But did never serious training on it, just because i
thought intelligence is in the genes. Well, i know better know because
that's just a small part of the story.
I liked IQ tests, especially the iqtest.dk.
I did it for the last time between 1-2 years ago. My score was 110,
i'm pretty sure.
I scored never higher than 110, but also not much lower than 110.
Guess i had just average intelligence and i was feeling that way too.
On the weschler test i did 3-4 years ago i scored 107. so if i
formulate it correctly my fluid intelligence was in line with my
general intelligence.
Now i do it for 11 consequent days, just 25 minutes a day and mostly
at this point 2-3-4 back.
But after the third day i felt much more clarity and better ability to
formulate things, because my memory seemed so much better.
Take note that i'm really an extremely sensitive person, so that is
probably the reason i felt it so quickly.
Today i decided to do the iqtest.dk test again, because i was excited
to do it and not wait till the 19th day. My expectation was a iq in
the 110-115 range, but guess what i scored 126.
And not only that, i feel my problem solving is much more in control
and faster. At the difficult problems i seem to have more ability to
concentrate on multiple layers of the problem and have better overview
over the problem.
Together with reading a lot (newspapers) i felt also an very
significant improvement in my vocabulary. It seems the only thing to
do to get the gf gains to general intelligence as measured on a
weschler test is to do something with your gf gains. I expect an
higher weschler full scale iq, somewhere in the 120-130 range. Don't
think that i don't go on with dual n back, i added it in my schedule
every day - in the morning.
hypersenses
Aman Idle
Feb 19, 2012, 3:30:39 AM2/19/12
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
sounds amazing, keep it up and let us know how you get on!
hypersenses
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Brandon Woodson
Feb 19, 2012, 3:33:49 AM2/19/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Congratulations on your gains (and first post in this group),
hypersenses. I know from experience how truly rewarding it is to gain
so much, so quickly. Good luck and happy n-backing!
hypersenses. I know from experience how truly rewarding it is to gain
so much, so quickly. Good luck and happy n-backing!
Pontus Granström
Feb 19, 2012, 5:19:08 AM2/19/12
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Pretty much in line with the expected progression, documented in several studies.
pol12
Feb 19, 2012, 8:07:06 AM2/19/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
wow it's sounds great can you please publish your technique
to train (i guess without chunking).
to train (i guess without chunking).
hypersenses
Feb 19, 2012, 9:27:39 AM2/19/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
you guessed right, i'm not using chunking.
i'm just challenging myself everyday to become better and better at
the task, that way i'm using all my possible resources.
Maybe what helped me is that i read it is completly normal that it
takes quite some time to get to dual 5 back or higher for example,
therefore i was not able to stress but relaxed and had much confidence
in my abilities.
After the ending of every session i had the feeling i did a positive
step forward, while in terms of n back level i did slightly better
than the previous day.
Therefore confidence in training at your threshold, without much
improvement in n back level for many days to come, can probably make
higher gf gains than if the training is to simple and the level of n
back must change according to your performance.
This was true for me at least, maybe because my working memory is not
my strongest point.
i'm just challenging myself everyday to become better and better at
the task, that way i'm using all my possible resources.
Maybe what helped me is that i read it is completly normal that it
takes quite some time to get to dual 5 back or higher for example,
therefore i was not able to stress but relaxed and had much confidence
in my abilities.
After the ending of every session i had the feeling i did a positive
step forward, while in terms of n back level i did slightly better
than the previous day.
Therefore confidence in training at your threshold, without much
improvement in n back level for many days to come, can probably make
higher gf gains than if the training is to simple and the level of n
back must change according to your performance.
This was true for me at least, maybe because my working memory is not
my strongest point.
polar
Feb 19, 2012, 1:22:15 PM2/19/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Hello hypersenses, I experienced similar effects "long" time ago
(altough with different iq / improvement and training time). May I ask
- do you think your sensibility is more inherited, or more acquired
due to life's different experiences?
(altough with different iq / improvement and training time). May I ask
- do you think your sensibility is more inherited, or more acquired
due to life's different experiences?
hypersenses
Feb 19, 2012, 2:25:54 PM2/19/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
hi polar, i'm pretty sure my sensitivity is inherited.
I had to take antipsychotica a few years ago and while most people
notice effects within weeks, the next morning after the first med i
noticed my dream was significantly more clear than before.
Same happened for thinking on that day. Just less confused.
According to the psychiatrist it was not possible, because it takes
days till it is in somebodies blood.
I also have sometimes negative reactions due to my high level of
sensitivity, like people who make a lot of noise with eating,
especially that can be unbearable.
I think my sensitivity is different than other people not only because
it is part of my personality but also because i have asperger
syndrome.
I don't know anything about scientific research about dual n back &
autism spectrum disorders. But maybe it could be an explanation that
i'm gaining more from training working memory than neurotypical
people.
I had to take antipsychotica a few years ago and while most people
notice effects within weeks, the next morning after the first med i
noticed my dream was significantly more clear than before.
Same happened for thinking on that day. Just less confused.
According to the psychiatrist it was not possible, because it takes
days till it is in somebodies blood.
I also have sometimes negative reactions due to my high level of
sensitivity, like people who make a lot of noise with eating,
especially that can be unbearable.
I think my sensitivity is different than other people not only because
it is part of my personality but also because i have asperger
syndrome.
I don't know anything about scientific research about dual n back &
autism spectrum disorders. But maybe it could be an explanation that
i'm gaining more from training working memory than neurotypical
people.
Seth
Feb 19, 2012, 3:50:44 PM2/19/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Congratulations! Yeah, its definitely important not to use chunking,
and if you dont you will see gains when you go up a level! Im almost
past 3 n-back and when i went from 2 to 3 things became clearer.
Pretty cool!
It might be helpful to say the ABCs inside your head while doing the
dual n-back, as this will prevent saying the letters in your mind,
allowing you to train your visual areas which account for more of your
intelligence than the audio part.
and if you dont you will see gains when you go up a level! Im almost
past 3 n-back and when i went from 2 to 3 things became clearer.
Pretty cool!
It might be helpful to say the ABCs inside your head while doing the
dual n-back, as this will prevent saying the letters in your mind,
allowing you to train your visual areas which account for more of your
intelligence than the audio part.
Colin Dickerman
Feb 19, 2012, 10:42:55 PM2/19/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
But haven't there been several studies now showing no effect?
On Feb 19, 2:19 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Pretty much in line with the expected progression, documented in several
> studies.
>
On Feb 19, 2:19 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Pretty much in line with the expected progression, documented in several
> studies.
>
jotaro
Feb 20, 2012, 2:43:32 AM2/20/12
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
this sensivity you are talking about sounds like an odd thing
i dont think its inhereted i think this guy (you) have an annoying habit.
and as far as iq goes some get more gains in there then others
but honestly iq isnt a reliable way to measure for intellegence improvemnt it isnt even intellegence indicator.
its just overhyped by people.
whoisbambam
Feb 20, 2012, 2:55:41 AM2/20/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
A real increase of 16points, IMO, does not occur with MOST ppl.
But I do believe it may help with some, and indeed achieve this goal.
ADHD may be an example, and perhaps schizophrenia and other similar
psychiatric diagnoses.
For certain subpopulations, DNB may indeed be extremely beneficial.
I will save you all the details, but I had a brain injury awhile back--
i didnt notice it affected my working memory. I did lose some
memories--many seemed 'weaker'--in other words, I could not recall
many, but if they were brought up by somebody else, i remembered them.
However, now that i have done dnb for some time, it seems my remote
memories have improved, and if i do dnb regularly, without a doubt I
am more focused and productive--i can get things done rather than
starting a stopping a dozen different projects (which i am presently
doing, btw)
On Feb 19, 9:42 pm, Colin Dickerman <collin.silvern...@gmail.com>
wrote:
But I do believe it may help with some, and indeed achieve this goal.
ADHD may be an example, and perhaps schizophrenia and other similar
psychiatric diagnoses.
For certain subpopulations, DNB may indeed be extremely beneficial.
I will save you all the details, but I had a brain injury awhile back--
i didnt notice it affected my working memory. I did lose some
memories--many seemed 'weaker'--in other words, I could not recall
many, but if they were brought up by somebody else, i remembered them.
However, now that i have done dnb for some time, it seems my remote
memories have improved, and if i do dnb regularly, without a doubt I
am more focused and productive--i can get things done rather than
starting a stopping a dozen different projects (which i am presently
doing, btw)
On Feb 19, 9:42 pm, Colin Dickerman <collin.silvern...@gmail.com>
wrote:
hypersenses
Feb 20, 2012, 4:09:31 PM2/20/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Take note that i use the brain twister software which i ordered. For
some people - like me you can focus a lot better during the task when
you don't get feedback after every audio/visual stimulus.
Furthermore i like the design of the task used in the studies.
some people - like me you can focus a lot better during the task when
you don't get feedback after every audio/visual stimulus.
Furthermore i like the design of the task used in the studies.
hypersenses
Mar 1, 2012, 3:37:21 PM3/1/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I want give some quick update on my progress.
I am dual n backing for 23 days. As i told you before my iq raised
from a 110 to 126 (after 11 days of training).
A few minutes ago i ended the iqtest.dk again and scored 122. This
means for me i'm approximately as smart as 12 days before, furthermore
i think i shouldn't be any differences in raw intelligence.
I followed the post of Chooi;2011 and saw that participants in that
study improved not significantly on the RAMP after 20 days of dual n
back. Well, not everybody gains, but i do. I have subjectively and
objectively proof (similar iq test like RAPM) with 40 min timelimit)
that dual n back works for me, also on the field of improvement in
intelligence quotient.
I can explain my prove in more detail why it should work at least for
some people. I did some figure reasoning test at a psychologist which
where quite difficult (think same level as RAPM) and i scored
approximately the same as on the weschler test and my year before
iqtest.dk (before iq=110). The funny thing is that i scored a 15 on
the matrix reasoning subtest, but this test is easy when you are
accurate and concentrated, except the last question which i did wrong.
I think this test overestimated my matrix reasoning skills at that
moment in time, because it was more like raven standard progressive
reasoning. I did that test for free at the internet and very few
mistakes.
The fact that i improved my gf (and as i demonstrated my gf correlated
very highly with my G) on a test with a 40 minute timelimit which
didn't overestimated my intelligence quotient and level proves dual n
back works at least for some people.
I can mention a lot of fields where general intelligence is required
and where i handel a lot more precise, alert and faster than before.
Thirst you think must my brain work in a logical overdrive to become
smarter, then you see that you're brain working more efficient that
you ever dreamed of.
Think before people, but never say n backing can't make you smarter.
I am dual n backing for 23 days. As i told you before my iq raised
from a 110 to 126 (after 11 days of training).
A few minutes ago i ended the iqtest.dk again and scored 122. This
means for me i'm approximately as smart as 12 days before, furthermore
i think i shouldn't be any differences in raw intelligence.
I followed the post of Chooi;2011 and saw that participants in that
study improved not significantly on the RAMP after 20 days of dual n
back. Well, not everybody gains, but i do. I have subjectively and
objectively proof (similar iq test like RAPM) with 40 min timelimit)
that dual n back works for me, also on the field of improvement in
intelligence quotient.
I can explain my prove in more detail why it should work at least for
some people. I did some figure reasoning test at a psychologist which
where quite difficult (think same level as RAPM) and i scored
approximately the same as on the weschler test and my year before
iqtest.dk (before iq=110). The funny thing is that i scored a 15 on
the matrix reasoning subtest, but this test is easy when you are
accurate and concentrated, except the last question which i did wrong.
I think this test overestimated my matrix reasoning skills at that
moment in time, because it was more like raven standard progressive
reasoning. I did that test for free at the internet and very few
mistakes.
The fact that i improved my gf (and as i demonstrated my gf correlated
very highly with my G) on a test with a 40 minute timelimit which
didn't overestimated my intelligence quotient and level proves dual n
back works at least for some people.
I can mention a lot of fields where general intelligence is required
and where i handel a lot more precise, alert and faster than before.
Thirst you think must my brain work in a logical overdrive to become
smarter, then you see that you're brain working more efficient that
you ever dreamed of.
Think before people, but never say n backing can't make you smarter.
Gwern Branwen
Mar 1, 2012, 3:43:42 PM3/1/12
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 3:37 PM, hypersenses <t.vanbre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A few minutes ago i ended the iqtest.dk again and scored 122. This
> means for me i'm approximately as smart as 12 days before, furthermore
> i think i shouldn't be any differences in raw intelligence.
> A few minutes ago i ended the iqtest.dk again and scored 122. This
> means for me i'm approximately as smart as 12 days before, furthermore
> i think i shouldn't be any differences in raw intelligence.
*Or* you tried harder...
10 or 12 points (1 stddev?) seems within the range of motivational
changes, see Duckworth et al 2011
http://www.pnas.org/content/108/19/7716.full
--
gwern
http://www.gwern.net
hypersenses
Mar 1, 2012, 4:47:44 PM3/1/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Yeah, i know it's my motivation ability. i was born with a high iq but
didn't have the motivation to do the questions on a professional
intelligence test, well as good as i answers them at school normally.
i had high anxiety levels also. n back reduces anxiety and improves
motivation seems a valid conclusion. On the wais i did the difficult
questions of verbal problems very well, and made the mistakes on the
easy ones, probably because of non-intellectual factors, which n back
try to aid. and it does it tremendously well.
didn't have the motivation to do the questions on a professional
intelligence test, well as good as i answers them at school normally.
i had high anxiety levels also. n back reduces anxiety and improves
motivation seems a valid conclusion. On the wais i did the difficult
questions of verbal problems very well, and made the mistakes on the
easy ones, probably because of non-intellectual factors, which n back
try to aid. and it does it tremendously well.
Aman Idle
Mar 1, 2012, 5:21:51 PM3/1/12
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
regarding n back. i go to http://brainworkshop.sourceforge.net/download.html to download the non installer as i am at university and it's 22.21 pm so i want to unwind from my work. But it gets me error when i try to install it. Have you faced similar issues?
Brain Train
Mar 12, 2012, 2:11:57 PM3/12/12
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Hi hypersenses, i am keen to know about your driving style.. would you like to share some information on it, like:
1. do you tend to accelerate hard?
2. do you tend to drive faster than average people?
3. do you slow down only near the limit beyond which you wouldn't be able to stop in time?
4. do you frequently end up doing hard braking?
thanks,
braintrain
Mitsa Original
May 28, 2023, 2:15:59 PM5/28/23
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
@Brandon
Mitsa Original
May 28, 2023, 3:23:08 PM5/28/23
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
;
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