Borland "Turbo Explorer" Developer Studio
Andreas Hausladen
merges the four Turbo Explorer editions into one installation. That allows
you to use more than one edition on one computer.
Screenshot:
http://andy.jgknet.de/misc/TurboExpressStudio.png
Download:
http://unvclx.sf.net/downloads/TurboMerger.zip
How to install
==============
1. Install the first Turbo Explorer personality with the installer
that is included in the Turbo Explorer download.
2. Extract the next Turbo Explorer personality installer to a directory
of you choice.
3. Start the TurboMerger.exe and select the directory where you have
extracted the next Turbo Explorer personality installer. Press the
"Install" button. In the InstallShield installer do not change the
directories. Doing this will destroy the Turbo Explorer installation.
4. Proceed with step 2. until you have installed all personalities you
want.
--
Regards,
Andreas Hausladen
(http://andy.jgknet.de/blog)
Chester
> With 4 hours delay I have finished the development of TurboMerger. It
> merges the four Turbo Explorer editions into one installation. That allows
> you to use more than one edition on one computer.
>
Wow!, I been reading some post in the newsgroup and looks like a Hacking
Festival.
;o)
acro...@gmail.com
Rod
Ingvar Anderberg
news:4500...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> With 4 hours delay I have finished the development of TurboMerger. It
Only 4 hours, If I have try to do the same
it hast taken at least 4 years <g>
/ia
Tom Reiertsen
message news:4500...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> With 4 hours delay I have finished the development of TurboMerger. It
> merges the four Turbo Explorer editions into one installation. That allows
> you to use more than one edition on one computer.
>
I knew this would happen. Pretty soon, someone will figure out how to get
past the limitation of not getting to install third party components in the
Explorer editions and what do you think will happen then?
Do you think you are encouraging Borland/DevCo to continue doing stuff
Turbos by exploiting their good intentions?
This is borderline piracy in my mind, please don't ruin it for the rest of
us who actually care and won't mind paying for a decent product.
Just my 2c...
Tom
John Jacobson
news:4500f7c5$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> I knew this would happen. Pretty soon, someone will figure out how to get
> past the limitation of not getting to install third party components in
> the Explorer editions and what do you think will happen then?
That is also just a matter of time, it seems, judging from recent posts.
Then it seems the whole thing has become dependent on the honor system.
<sarc> We all know how well that works most of the time.</sarc>
>
> Do you think you are encouraging Borland/DevCo to continue doing stuff
> Turbos by exploiting their good intentions?
>
> This is borderline piracy in my mind, please don't ruin it for the rest of
> us who actually care and won't mind paying for a decent product.
I never use anything in BDS except the Delphi Win32 personality, and this
makes me wonder how many other users are in a similar situation of using
only one language anyway.
Andreas Hausladen
> Only 4 hours, If I have try to do the same
> it hast taken at least 4 years <g>
> /ia
Not 4 hours. It is "4 hour delay". That means I wanted to have finished it
4 hours earlier but do to a simple bug (forgot to set Reg.RootKey :=
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE) debugged it 4 hours.
Andreas Hausladen
> Do you think you are encouraging Borland/DevCo to continue doing stuff
> Turbos by exploiting their good intentions?
I have asked Nick if it is only a technical reason or a legal. And he
wrote:
> It's only technical.
source:
http://tinyurl.com/fzy8h
http://groups.google.com/group/borland.public.delphi.non-technical/browse_t
hread/thread/43672c2c732ec80b/dac5bfcfda4ae547#msg_ba54d255c0595478
Andreas Hausladen
This works only with the TurboExplorer editions. I give no garantee for
the TurboProfessionals. Actually the registry meight be destroyed if
someone tries it with e TurboPro.
somebody
The scary (and maybe sad) thing is, a lone outside hacker, in a few hours,
overcomes the technical issues that DTG could not / did not solve before the
release.
Tom Reiertsen
news:4500...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> I never use anything in BDS except the Delphi Win32 personality, and this
> makes me wonder how many other users are in a similar situation of using
> only one language anyway.
I have BDS2006 Architect but I only use Win32. I've tried doing some Delphi
.Net and C# in it but frankly I prefer using Visual Studio and C# there
whenever I have to write something in .Net.
Best Regards,
Tom Reiertsen
somebody
> > I knew this would happen. Pretty soon, someone will figure out how to
get
> > past the limitation of not getting to install third party components in
> > the Explorer editions and what do you think will happen then?
> That is also just a matter of time, it seems, judging from recent posts.
> Then it seems the whole thing has become dependent on the honor system.
> <sarc> We all know how well that works most of the time.</sarc>
Instead of shipping with a fancy but useless activation scheme, they should
have simply hardcoded the packages in. Would have been much less obtrusive
and much more secure. Goes to show you that, when security is concerned, if
you don't eliminate the simplest of single point failures, all the other
fancy schemes are a waste of time and effort.
David Clegg
> That is also just a matter of time, it seems, judging from recent
> posts. Then it seems the whole thing has become dependent on the
> honor system.
OTOH, Nick didn't seem overly upset at the notion of any information
getting out there WRT hosting multiple Turbo personalities. And they
have always stated that this was a technical limitation, and gave the
impression to me that they'd rather that limitation wasn't there.
However, the installing component hack I don't feel so charitable
towards. That takes a free product, and pretty much turns it into the
USD$399 equivalent without the user having to pay a dime.
> I never use anything in BDS except the Delphi Win32 personality, and
> this makes me wonder how many other users are in a similar situation
> of using only one language anyway.
I use Delphi Win32, Delphi for .NET, and C#, so it has to be BDS all
the way for me anyway. My interest in getting Turbo working with
multiple personalities is purely academic.
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dcl...@gmail.com
http://cc.borland.com/Author.aspx?ID=72299
QualityCentral. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
http://qc.borland.com
"'Distracted'. Now that's a funny word. Does anyone ever get 'tracted'?
I better call the suicide hotline and find out." - Homer Simpson
ram...@bigpond.net.au
> However, the installing component hack I don't feel so charitable
> towards. That takes a free product, and pretty much turns it into the
> USD$399 equivalent without the user having to pay a dime.
However, the kind of people who will do that are those who will
probably just download and use a warez copy. I cant see that Borland
will lose any real sales because of them.
webra...@gmail.com
Actually, this would work great for me. I have Delphi 6 and am quite
happy with it. Whenever I downloaded a Delphi/BDS trial in the past, it
always expired as I kept putting off trying it. I find explorer
editions a great way to explore the new features at leisure. But I did
not install the explorer because I could not make up my mind on what I
wanted to try.
Question:
When Borland said one could install one edition per machine, did they
mean one "at a time"? That is -- uninstall one personality and install
another. This would work well for me too.
VS2005 Express allows you to install all "personalities" as well as
third party components. Things like XNA are even supported exclusively
in express editions at the moment. MS still sells Visual Studio.
Couldn't Borland do the same? I know that dev tool profits are probably
not as important for MS as they are to Borland compared to getting the
tools out there, but still... Delphi could stand to be the household
name again.
Thomas Mueller
somebody wrote:
> The scary (and maybe sad) thing is, a lone outside hacker, in a few hours,
> overcomes the technical issues that DTG could not / did not solve before
> the release.
You do not work for a company that writes off the shelf software and has to
do support for this product, do you? Andreas had the benefit of having the
time to do it and nobody tell him to do something else, especially:
* no QA department pestering him with supposed bugs or missing documentation
* no marketing department asking him for new (impossible) features
* no colleagues who (unknowingly) sabotage his effort by making other
changes in parallel or who came to him pissed because he broke their code
Also even though he has probably tested it doing a few installations I doubt
that there aren't still any bugs left he hasn't found. Somebody is bound to
kill his installation using Andreas tool and will then complain loudly
about it. If Borland/DevCo had done it and missed a single problem, he
would even complain more loudly, as you can see in these groups.
So the bottomline is: Andreas could do it in a few hours (days?)
Borland/DevCo would have needed at least a couple of weeks to make sure it
works for 99% of their customers. And that's for a product that is given
away free. (Remember: Andreas did not claim it works for the professional
version, there might be additional issues with that.)
MfG
twm
Lluis (Albert Research)
> I should not forget:
>
> This works only with the TurboExplorer editions. I give no garantee
> for the TurboProfessionals. Actually the registry meight be destroyed
> if someone tries it with e TurboPro.
Andreas I just wanted you to give a BIG thank you and thumbs up... not
for the matter of this thread (only because I haven't tested this yet),
just for the new DDevExtensions Beta with the "old" pallete in it !!! I
just noticed it by reading your blog. AWESOME !!! OMAY..!!! My eyes got
in tears when I saw my desktop again as I was used all this years.
Thank you for your effords man...
Vielen Dank. ;-)
--
Eric Grange
Old palette sounds good. BDS one takes such a huge amount of screen
space, and can only display such a paltry amount of components...
Eric
Andreas Hausladen
> My interest in getting Turbo working with
> multiple personalities is purely academic.
And so do I.
--
Regards,
Andreas Hausladen
Hannes Danzl[NDD]
EXACTLY my point and I can assure you DTG is very well aware of that. Now
supporting such a hack is another thing of course, but getting upset about it
is't worth it imo. The Pro version will be on the well known torrent sites
wihin a few days after it's shipped anyways. So if *I* would want to use it
illegally I wouldn't bother downloading 300 megs plus a hack for explorer but
go for the Pro or even BDS directly. They should keep updates coming in a
short follow up and change small little things here or there that will break
these hacks. Peope will get sick of trying to keep up and pay these few
dollars. It's really not the world. For most of the people here I'd assume
it's what they earn in max 2 days.
--
Hannes Danzl [NexusDB Developer]
Newsgroup archive at http://www.tamaracka.com/search.htm
Hannes Danzl[NDD]
> just for the new DDevExtensions Beta with the "old" pallete in it !!! I
Oh. I missed that. MANY MANY thanks from here too!
bim_bom
Uzytkownik "Thomas Mueller" <nos...@dummzeuch.de> napisal w wiadomosci
news:4501...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> You do not work for a company that writes off the shelf software and has
> to
> do support for this product, do you? Andreas had the benefit of having the
> time to do it and nobody tell him to do something else, especially:
> * no QA department pestering him with supposed bugs or missing
> documentation
> * no marketing department asking him for new (impossible) features
> * no colleagues who (unknowingly) sabotage his effort by making other
> changes in parallel or who came to him pissed because he broke their code
>
> Also even though he has probably tested it doing a few installations I
> doubt
> that there aren't still any bugs left he hasn't found. Somebody is bound
> to
> kill his installation using Andreas tool and will then complain loudly
> about it. If Borland/DevCo had done it and missed a single problem, he
> would even complain more loudly, as you can see in these groups.
>
> So the bottomline is: Andreas could do it in a few hours (days?)
> Borland/DevCo would have needed at least a couple of weeks to make sure it
> works for 99% of their customers. And that's for a product that is given
> away free. (Remember: Andreas did not claim it works for the professional
> version, there might be additional issues with that.)
I think, you are right, but there are still many bugs in Borland software.
Borland advertised C++ Builder, that it has "Refactoring" . It has "Rename
refactoring" (what a great name ;) ). I created 10 lines source code, for
which this refactoring didn't work ( instead of changing var=5 to foo=5, it
changed to vafoo !!! ).
It didn't stop Borland from advertising that C++ builder "has refactorings"
(Update 2 didn't repair it).
There are so many failures in Borland products - that even if this patch
from Andreas doesn't work on every machine, it is probably less "buggy" than
many parts of Borland software :)
Thomas Mueller
David Clegg wrote:
> However, the installing component hack I don't feel so charitable
> towards. That takes a free product, and pretty much turns it into the
> USD$399 equivalent without the user having to pay a dime.
I find the echo in these newsgroups really interesting. I have not told
anybody how I did it and I don't intend to. All I did was proving that it
is possible and that was clear from the beginning, wasn't it? It was just a
matter of how difficult it would be. This is software after all.
But I am pretty sure that others will independently find out how to
circumvent the restriction. And there will of course also be somebody who
either publishes the steps or writes a tool for doing it. But that's in no
way different from people using a key generator or a cracked version of
BDS.
MfG
twm
Andreas Hausladen
> it is probably less "buggy" than many parts of
> Borland software :)
You can't compare that simple tool against the weight of BDS.
--
Regards,
Andreas Hausladen
I.P. Nichols
> David Clegg wrote:
>
>> My interest in getting Turbo working with
>> multiple personalities is purely academic.
>
> And so do I.
It's no surprise that Delphi hackers are just acrophobia challenged mountain
climbers who would like nothing better than to conquer Mount Everest just so
when asked why they did it could answer, "...because it was there". ;-)
Staiger
> Delphi .Net and C# in it but frankly I prefer using Visual Studio and C#
> there whenever I have to write something in .Net.
That is exactly my position, too. Visual Studio for .NET stuff; Delphi for
W32 stuff. I bet there are loads of us.
Thack
Leif Eirik Olsen
> With 4 hours delay I have finished the development of TurboMerger. It
> merges the four Turbo Explorer editions into one installation. That allows
> you to use more than one edition on one computer.
I guess you used Delphi for the job ?:)
In that case we have : Delphi is made using Delphi and then hacked using
Delphi :)
Well anyway, congrats with a job nicely done! (assuming it is legal).
regards,
Leo
Danijel Tkalcec
For writing new software in .NET, I agree with you 100% (go to the surce).
But if you already have a large project written in Delphi (Win32) and you
would like to port this to .NET, you most likely won't be considering a
complete rewrite in C#, unless you're got heaps of free time (which most of
us don't). And that's where I think Delphi.NET is best for.
And now ... if you could write one application which would compile for Win32
*and* for .NET, without having to do any changes in your code, that would be
perfect ;)
Best Regards,
Danijel Tkalcec, Team RTC
----
Download Turbo Explorer (official mirror):
http://www.realthinclient.com/borland
Rod
Turbo Delphi & Turbo C++ personalities ought to be enough.
Turbo Delphi for the main app,
Turbo C++ for the 3rd party C stuff (jpeg, zilb, png, etc).
I.P. Nichols
>
> But if you already have a large project written in Delphi (Win32) and you
> would like to port this to .NET, you most likely won't be considering a
> complete rewrite in C#, unless you're got heaps of free time (which most
> of us don't). And that's where I think Delphi.NET is best for.
Why would anyone want to take a perfectly good native Win32 app and port it
to .NET?
Porting Fish Facts as a cute little demo is one thing but porting tens of
thousands of lines of code apps is IMO very unlikely to become a common
practice.
Charles Appel
> With 4 hours delay I have finished the development of TurboMerger. It
> merges the four Turbo Explorer editions into one installation. That allows
> you to use more than one edition on one computer.
Thank you! What a nice thing to do! :^)
--
Charles Appel
http://charlesappel.home.mindspring.com/
Danijel Tkalcec
> Why would anyone want to take a perfectly good native Win32 app and port
> it to .NET?
Not today, but maybe in 5-10 years, once Windows Vista (or whatever its
codename will be) becomes widely deployed (as Windows XP is now) and most
companies start "insisting" on pure .NET solutions, because they have
"paranoid" admins which don't know how to secure their infrastructure
without depending on Microsoft support and Microsoft will be forcing the
".NET". Also, as I see things, most applications will become Web-based (zero
deployment) and/or capable of running on mobile devices.
Best Regards,
Danijel Tkalcec, Team RTC
Thomas Mueller
I.P. Nichols wrote:
> Why would anyone want to take a perfectly good native Win32 app and port
> it to .NET?
No sane person would do that, at least not yet (*1). But people who work in
marketing and sales think different and probably regard us developers as
kind of insane.
From a sales point of view, if you can sell the same program again, just
recompiled for dotNET because the customer believes in buzzwords, that's a
big plus.
MfG
twm
*1) That might change in the future if Microsoft really makes writing and/or
running native programs under Windows impossible or difficult. But of
course they had to port their own programs (e.g. MS Office) to dotNET first
and I doubt that even at Microsoft somebody is that - aeh - different.
Pete Fraser
1) Your Customer says it must be in .NET
2) .NET has the *potential* to make a more secure app with
no buffer over-runs etc.
[3) Because your app runs too fast :) gdrfc]
Not that I would, just playing devils advocate.
Rgds Pete
"I.P. Nichols" <nos...@nocorp.com> wrote in message
news:4501659e$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
JED
> Old palette sounds good. BDS one takes such a huge amount of screen
> space, and can only display such a paltry amount of components...
Hmmm. Try turning off captions then.
--
Compact Framework for Delphi 2006: http://www.jed-software.com/cf.htm
QualityCentral Windows Client: http://www.jed-software.com/qc.htm
Visual Forms IDE Add In: http://www.jed-software.com/vf.htm
Don Strenczewilk
please redo the help? :)
Jon Robertson
>I knew this would happen. Pretty soon, someone will figure out how to get
>past
>the limitation of not getting to install third party components in the
>Explorer
>editions and what do you think will happen then?
Well, since the birth of Delphi, Delphi/BDS has been available for free.
If you're willing to break the law to find it. And the activation stuff
hasn't slowed this down any either.
To me, circumventing Borland's Explorer restrictions (and hopefully it is
a license restriction), is the same as software piracy. Either you're
willing to pirate software (in which case you probably already have an
illegal copy of BDS) or you're not.
The point is that people will always break the law and steal from Borland.
The Explorer products don't change that. And I doubt Borland/DevCo will spend a lot of resources trying to prevent people from stealing from them. It is counter-productive, unfortunately, and most people in the software industry acknowledge this.
Eric Grange
Tried it, doesn't do much good: there is quite a bit more spacing and
bordering in the new toolbar, and the "tabs-equivalents" take a lot more
screen space too (plus you can't shorthand them). Another waste of space
is that the palette doesn't integrate to the IDE menu.
In D7, I have one-click access to 20+ components and 15 categories, that
means I'm two click away from 300+ components, which cover pretty much
all the components in regular use, and then some, and that for a very
limited amount of screen space.
(see attachments for a screenshot)
Eric
John Jacobson
<xn0eqzis...@newsgroups.borland.com>
> And they
> have always stated that this was a technical limitation
How can it be, when BDS does multiple languages?
--
***Free Your Mind***
Posted with JSNewsreader Preview 0.9.4.2762
somebody
> somebody wrote:
> > The scary (and maybe sad) thing is, a lone outside hacker, in a few
hours,
> > overcomes the technical issues that DTG could not / did not solve before
> > the release.
> You do not work for a company that writes off the shelf software and has
to
> do support for this product, do you? Andreas had the benefit of having the
> time to do it and nobody tell him to do something else, especially:
> * no QA department pestering him with supposed bugs or missing
documentation
> * no marketing department asking him for new (impossible) features
> * no colleagues who (unknowingly) sabotage his effort by making other
> changes in parallel or who came to him pissed because he broke their code
You are correct, but still, you help make my case. That's the sad part about
software or companies whose inertia becomes so large that even minor (yes,
in my book this one's minor) changes or improvements end up not
implementable in a reasonable time or with any sort of efficiency. I'm not
saying the programmers are clueless, it's just that beyond a certain size,
you end up with a mindset to keep the status quo instead of innovating and
being mindful of the customer in general. And it's not specific to DTG or
Turbo, it's how things work out in general in IT business, unless managers
take deliberate steps to prevent stagnation.
somebody
news:87lkouk...@kafka.homenet...
> However, the kind of people who will do that are those who will
> probably just download and use a warez copy.
I don't know. Have you ever overclocked a CPU? It's pretty much the same
idea, getting more out of a product legally acquired. Warez is in a
different class, IMO.
JED
> In D7, I have one-click access to 20+ components and 15 categories,
> that means I'm two click away from 300+ components, which cover
> pretty much all the components in regular use, and then some, and
> that for a very limited amount of screen space.
>
> (see attachments for a screenshot)
I can see 300+ components in my layout.
(see reply to your attachments post)
I.P. Nichols
> I.P. Nichols wrote:
>
>> Why would anyone want to take a perfectly good native Win32 app and port
>> it to .NET?
>
> recompiled for dotNET because the customer believes in buzzwords, that's a
> big plus.
I find that a real stretch starting with your "just recompiled for dotNET",
I doubt that just a recompile works on apps much more complex than Fish
Facts.
But leaving that aside for the moment, I don't know of anyone marketing the
more or less exactly same app in both native Win32 and .NET versions, do
you?
I.P. Nichols
> "I.P. Nichols" wrote:
>> Why would anyone want to take a perfectly good native Win32 app and port
>> it to .NET?
>
> Not today, but maybe in 5-10 years, once Windows Vista (or whatever its
> codename will be) becomes widely deployed (as Windows XP is now) and most
> companies start "insisting" on pure .NET solutions, because they have
> "paranoid" admins which don't know how to secure their infrastructure
> without depending on Microsoft support and Microsoft will be forcing the
> ".NET".
I find it hard to buy into your concept that in 5-10 years porting perfectly
good Delphi native Win32 apps to .NET apps will be more common than it is
today, IMO it's always going to be a rarity. As .NET grows more complex,
which we already see with WinFX in .NET 3.0, I have severe misgivings as to
how pratical it will be to write native Win32 apps that take full advantage
of those capabilities. For a while it may be pratical to extend and enhance
native Win32 apps with things like WPF but sooner or later the choice will
be "classic" native Win32 apps which Delphi excels at or pure .NET apps -
i.e. no ports will be feasible.
> Also, as I see things, most applications will become Web-based (zero
> deployment) and/or capable of running on mobile devices.
But none of this will be utilizing ported native Win32 apps.
Eric Grange
However to achieve that, your palette is so big it is using up more
pixels than my whole screen has to offer... and you're reduced to using
the small 16x16 component icons, while I'm using larger 24x24 icons...
Also using default-sized fonts on a 1920x1200 display (24"?), I'm afraid
you're sacrificing your eyesight (unless it's actually a 30"+ screen).
Eric
Rich Davis
> David Clegg <dcl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> <xn0eqzis...@newsgroups.borland.com>
>> And they
>> have always stated that this was a technical limitation
>
> How can it be, when BDS does multiple languages?
BDS does multiple languages within a single installation of BDS. You've
never been able to install multiple copies of BDS on the same machine
and each Turbo is a BDS "mini me".
It's something to do with where configuration info is stored on the
hard-drive and the registry. Each copy of Turbo uses the same storage
locations, with no provision for multiple copies to be installed.
Rich
Dave Keighan
> This works only with the TurboExplorer editions. I give no garantee
> for the TurboProfessionals. Actually the registry meight be destroyed
> if someone tries it with e TurboPro.
Gee, wouldn't is suck /big/ time if any updates and/or hot-fixes
checked for a hacked /ide and refused to install ;-)
--
Dave
Grand Poobah
Loyal Order of Delphi Hobbyists and Occupational Developers
Thomas Mueller
I.P. Nichols wrote:
>>> Why would anyone want to take a perfectly good native Win32 app and port
>>> it to .NET?
>> From a sales point of view, if you can sell the same program again, just
>> recompiled for dotNET because the customer believes in buzzwords, that's
>> a big plus.
> I find that a real stretch starting with your "just recompiled for
> dotNET", I doubt that just a recompile works on apps much more complex
> than Fish Facts.
Of course not, we know because we are developers, but tell that to marketing
and sales.
> But leaving that aside for the moment, I don't know of anyone marketing
> the more or less exactly same app in both native Win32 and .NET versions,
> do you?
I know a few companies who try to get their customers to move to a new
dotNET version of the software, even though that new version does nothing
the old one couldn't. Just with the "it is the more modern technology"
blurb.
MfG
twm
JED
> > I can see 300+ components in my layout.
>
> However to achieve that, your palette is so big it is using up more
> pixels than my whole screen has to offer... and you're reduced to
> using the small 16x16 component icons, while I'm using larger 24x24
> icons...
Actually I cheated as I use 32x32 icons <g>. To be honest I rarely
switch between design and editing.
When designing I try to get all done at once. Naturally this doesn't
always work out as planned, however it would have been so much better
if some genius didn't decide to combine the Object TreeView and the
Code Explorer into the Structure View.
The palette then isn't sucking up screen space when I am not bothering
to design a form and can instead include the messages window and the
refactoring window that always wants to display even when I say I don't
want to preview the refactorings.
Every developer should have a decent about of screen real estate to
work with, just ask Joel.
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FieldGuidetoDevelopers.html
JED
> With 4 hours delay I have finished the development of TurboMerger. It
> merges the four Turbo Explorer editions into one installation. That
> allows you to use more than one edition on one computer.
Does uninstall work?
Thomas Mueller
I.P. Nichols wrote:
> I find it hard to buy into your concept that in 5-10 years porting
> perfectly good Delphi native Win32 apps to .NET apps will be more common
> than it is today
We have seen that happening before:
* perfectly good DOS applications have been ported to Windows
* perfectly good 16 bit Windows applications have been ported to 32 bit
Windows
It will happen again for more or less the same - sometimes stupid - reasons.
MfG
twm
Jon Robertson
>BDS does multiple languages within a single installation of BDS. You've
>never
>been able to install multiple copies of BDS on the same machine and each
>Turbo
>is a BDS "mini me".
Exactly. If the Turbo installation would detect that the core BDS is
already there, it could install the additional language/personality into
the previously installed BDS.
The installer would probably need to confirm the edition of the IDE. I
seriously doubt DevCo would support one Explorer language installed with
one Pro language. I suspect that the current and future Explorer
restrictions are enforced by the IDE, not by the language personality.
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> The scary (and maybe sad) thing is, a lone outside hacker, in a few
> hours, overcomes the technical issues that DTG could not / did not
> solve before the release.
He did not solve anything that DTG could not, you're mixing up two things.
The limitation of a single language was a *deliberate* one, not an accident.
The ability for multiple editions of Turbo to co-exist is the technical
limitation. If he had found a way to allow multiple Turbos to be installed
*separately* - and alongside BDS 2006, then you could say he solved the
technical problem. What he has done is hack around Borland's *planned*
language limit.
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"Nurture your mind with great thoughts. To believe in the heroic makes
heroes." — Benjamin Disraeli
Jon Robertson
>then you could say he solved the technical problem.
>What he has done is hack around Borland's planned language limit.
I believe the single language limitation was because the customers were
asking for a single language solution, not to prevent mutliple Explorer
languages to be installed simultaneously.
Nick has said on The Delphi Hour and, I believe, in this newsgroup that
they are interested in removing this limitation from Explorer so that
multiple Explorers could be installed at the same time.
Andreas Hausladen
> I suspect that the current and future Explorer restrictions
> are enforced by the IDE, not by the language personality.
They are restricted by the license files. Starting a merged Turbo Explorer
with a registrered Delphi and C++ but an unregistered C# and Delphi.NET
does not allow you to do any C# or Delphi.NET work. At least that was what
I had seen in my VM. And if that wouldn't had been that way, I wouldn't
have released TurboMerger.
--
Regards,
Andreas Hausladen
(http://andy.jgknet.de/blog)
Andreas Hausladen
> If he had found a way to allow multiple Turbos to be installed
> separately - and alongside BDS 2006
Why should anybody want to install the Turbos and BDS on one computer? I
certainly would have solved this, too. But I do not spend my spare time
for something that does not make any sense to me.
> What he has done is hack around Borland's planned language limit.
I Nick would have said that this is illegal and even after I had posted a
first screenshot he had be able to write that that is nothing I should
plan to release, I wouldn't had spend a second on making the installation
process as easy as it now is.
Nick Nodges wrote:
> It's only technical.
source:
http://tinyurl.com/fzy8h
http://groups.google.com/group/borland.public.delphi.non-technical/browse_t
hread/thread/43672c2c732ec80b/dac5bfcfda4ae547#msg_ba54d255c0595478
Andreas Hausladen
> Does uninstall work?
Just look at the Howto.txt file.
Tom van der Vlugt
Firstly I've installed Turbo Delphi from scratch on the E:\
partition. After a few days when I saw TurboMerger I've
followed your instruction to keep my fingers off the install
directories for the subsequent Turbos. This means that there
are TWO locations E:\ for Delphi 32 bit and C:\ for TC++, TC#
and TD.NET. I wasn't satisfied, since I've got a number of
errors upon startup. All these errors were directory search-
path related, but I wasn't allowed to install into E:\ because
of the warning from the HOWTO.
I felt that I spoiled my Turbo and I decided to start from
scratch.
Now I've uninstalled all the Delphi stuff
by uninstalling the last installed Turbo and running
TurboRemover after the uninstall had completed. After this I've
run another registry cleaning program to beat the s##t out of
bad entries in the registry. After a full reboot I installed
Delphi 32 bit via the standard install into C:\. After this I
subsequently installed C#, Delphi.NET and C++ using
TurboMerger and All these errors were gone.
My question is the following:
I want to install the first Turbo into X:\ where X:\ <> C:\
If I want to install further Turbos The install from the
TurboMerger points to C:\. The manual says: 'Do not modify any
install directory, since the install will become distorted!'.
Is modifying the install directory to X:\ now an exception or
not?
Andreas Hausladen
> Is modifying the install directory to X:\ now an exception or
> not?
Actually you must install the other personalities to the same directory
where the very first was installed. On my installation the install always
took the correct directory itself.
"tom van der vlugt"t.vlugt.quicknet.nl
"Andreas Hausladen"
>On my installation the install always took the correct >directory itself.
>
My first Turbo went installed on E:\
Unfortunately, TurboMerger didn't do that, it provided me the
C:\ directory instead of E:\. Therefore I've received a
bunch of errors and warnings upon startup.
Andreas Hausladen
> Unfortunately, TurboMerger didn't do that, it provided me the
> C:\ directory instead of E:\.
It isn't TurboMerger who gets and sets the installation directory. It's
the Installer itself.
Tom van der Vlugt
<AndreasDO...@gObviousToBeRemovedmx.de> wrote:
>It isn't TurboMerger who gets and sets the installation >directory. It's the Installer itself.
>
first Turbo installed, so it's providing me C:\
Is there possibly a new version of TurboMerger or can I
expect some updates in the future? Your TurboManager really
kicks ass, since I'm able now to use all Turbo's maybe also
future ones!
Andreas Hausladen
> since I'm able now to use all Turbo's maybe also
> future ones!
It's limited to the Turbo Explorer 2006. And if Borland gets its working
themself, this tool will be obsolete.
Andreas Hausladen
use this tool under such an environment. This no hint, it is a warning.
Donald Shimoda
> Andreas Hausladen wrote:
>
> > With 4 hours delay I have finished the development of TurboMerger.
> > It merges the four Turbo Explorer editions into one installation.
> > That allows you to use more than one edition on one computer.
>
> Does uninstall work?
And again, developers developers developers... DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS
DEVELOPERS!
LOL!
--
Donald Shimoda.
Mike Orriss
>
> 64 Bit Windows versions are not supported by this tool. Don't even
> try to use this tool under such an environment. This no hint, it is a
> warning.
I'm still mystified as to why you bothered to spend time ceating it in
the first place.
--
Mike Orriss
Thomas Mueller
Mike Orriss wrote:
> I'm still mystified as to why you bothered to spend time ceating it in
> the first place.
Because it was a technically interesting challenge?
MfG
twm
Tom
Andreas,
I've also used your little proggy to apply it on my newer
computer where Turbo Delphi Explorer was installed on F:\. I
changed the install destination from the default C:\ to my
F:\ and everything runs smoothly. I'm very impressed with the
Turbos! Now I can do everything I want! Especially Delphi 32
for Windows runs very fast! I hope Borland/Devco releases more
Turbos for VB, PHP, Perl etc, since I read rumours about that,
but I've forgotten where! If I can find them again, you'll
hear from me.
With regards from
Tom van der Vlugt
Andreas Hausladen
> Especially Delphi 32
> for Windows runs very fast!
And with DelphiSpeedUp 1.99b, the IDE gets another boost.
Tom van der Vlugt
Andreas,
You wrote:
>And with DelphiSpeedUp 1.99b, the IDE gets another boost.
Because I've just installed all the Turbo personalities,
doesn't DelphiSpeedUp interfere negatively with the following
Turbos: Delphi.NET, C++ and C#?
If it is safe, I'll give DelphiSpeedUp a nice try....
Regards,
Tom
Andreas Hausladen
> Because I've just installed all the Turbo personalities,
> doesn't DelphiSpeedUp interfere negatively with the following
> Turbos: Delphi.NET, C++ and C#?
The word "Delphi" in DelphiSpeedUp comes from the fact that this plugin
was originally written for Delphi 7. Later it was ported back to
Delphi/BCB 5 and 6 and even later it was available for Delphi 2005 and BDS
2006. BDS 2006 contains all four personalities. So there is no problem
with Turbo Delphi.NET/C#/C++. It only speeds up the IDE and has no impact
on any code you write/compile.
Tom van der Vlugt
Andreas,
It works perfectly, thank you.
Regards,
Tom
Nick Hodges (Borland/DTG)
> That is exactly my position, too. Visual Studio for .NET stuff;
> Delphi for W32 stuff.
What would it take to get you to use BDS for .Net stuff?
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi/C# Product Manager - Borland DTG
http://blogs.borland.com/nickhodges
John Jacobson
<45034348$1...@newsgroups.borland.com>
> Staiger wrote:
>
> > That is exactly my position, too. Visual Studio for .NET stuff;
> > Delphi for W32 stuff.
>
> What would it take to get you to use BDS for .Net stuff?
Probably support for .NET 2.0 at least.
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Alexander Tereshchenko
* .NET 2.0 support (both 32 and 64 bit)
* Delphi as first-class .NET language
* easy migration path for VCL controls from VCL.NET to WinForms (and
later, to WPF)
If Delphi 2007 will support .NET 2.0 - I can even promise to shut up
about .NET usage in the IDE :-)
> What would it take to get you to use BDS for .Net stuff?
--
Alex Tereshchenko
al...@fxfp.com
http://www.fxfp.com/
David Clegg
> * Delphi as first-class .NET language
<sigh>
How is Delphi *not* a first-class .NET language? Having additional
metadata injected into the assembly does not cut it with me as a
reason, BTW.
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dcl...@gmail.com
http://cc.borland.com/Author.aspx?ID=72299
QualityCentral. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
http://qc.borland.com
"Heh Heh Heh! Lisa! Vampires are make believe, just like elves and
gremlins and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
Michael C.
> The point is that people will always break the law and steal from
> Borland. The Explorer products don't change that. And I doubt
> Borland/DevCo will spend a lot of resources trying to prevent people
> from stealing from them. It is counter-productive, unfortunately, and
> most people in the software industry acknowledge this.
Here's the problem:
4 free products. You can't install them all.
Here comes a utility that allows you to install all free products.
Where's the loss folks?
Obviously some of us need to go back to Sunday school. ;-)
This ain't stealing folks.
Free still equals free.
Brian Twinings
> To me, circumventing Borland's Explorer restrictions (and hopefully
> it is a license restriction), is the same as software piracy.
Well, then you are quite wrong. Piracy is illegal. Using DLCUSR to
install components is a feature of the product, and thus it is
completely legal.
Read the license, it doesn't say anything about installing third-party
stuff.
Simply and plainly, Borland screwed it up.
Alexander Tereshchenko
Clarification:
* make it more like Chrome (nice and tidy)
Jon Robertson
>4 free products. You can't install them all.
>
>Here comes a utility that allows you to install all free products.
>Where's the loss folks?
While the thread topic is discussing the merger utility, the post I
replied to had to do with getting around the "no third-party components"
limitation of Explorer:
See the quote at the top of the message you replied to:
Tom Reiertsen wrote:
>I knew this would happen. Pretty soon, someone will figure out how to get
>past
>the limitation of not getting to install third party components in the
>Explorer
>editions and what do you think will happen then?
John Jacobson
<45035dbf$1...@newsgroups.borland.com>
> * make it more like Chrome (nice and tidy)
Why not just use Chrome then?
John Jacobson
<45035320$1...@newsgroups.borland.com>
> 4 free products. You can't install them all.
>
> Here comes a utility that allows you to install all free products.
> Where's the loss folks?
Surely you can't be as naive as you are implying by that asinine question. The
loss is the loss of potential Pro version sales that result from people
wanting/needing multiple language support.
>
> Obviously some of us need to go back to Sunday school. ;-)
That's a stupid comment. If you learned in Sunday School that something must
cause a loss to someone to be wrong, you must have gone to a different kind of
Sunday School than I did when I was a kid. It is precisely in Church that it is
taught that things are wrong quite independent of their effect on anyone. [I'm
not advocating Church of these types of morality by the way]
> This ain't stealing folks.
> Free still equals free.
The price of something has nothing to do with whether or not taking it is
stealing. By your reasoning it is not stealing if someone uses, without your
permission, a bike that your dad gave you for Christmas, for example.
John Jacobson
<4503...@newsgroups.borland.com>
I'm not convinced by the argument that the minimum of the law should be the
maximum of one's morals. There are a lot of things that are legal but wrong, at
least by the way I reckon morality and ethics.
To me, software piracy is morally and ethically wrong because it is a type of
stealing. It would be wrong whether or not any politician had ever acknowledged
it. (My morals are not for sale to the lowest common denominator in politics.)
I view the limitations on the free versions of the Turbos in the same way. If
Borland intends them to be used a certain way when free and they have in good
faith offered them for free for this type of use, then it is wrong to
circumvent the restrictions that differentiate them from the Pro version. It
might not be illegal, but I for one think it is wrong.
John Jacobson
<45036bab$1...@newsgroups.borland.com>
> I'm
> not advocating Church of these types of morality by the way
of => or
I.P. Nichols
>
> I'm not convinced by the argument that the minimum of the law should be
> the
> maximum of one's morals. There are a lot of things that are legal but
> wrong, at
> least by the way I reckon morality and ethics.
There are many things that are illegal that I consider moral, ethical and
fun. ;-)
> I view the limitations on the free versions of the Turbos in the same way.
> If
> Borland intends them to be used a certain way when free and they have in
> good
> faith offered them for free for this type of use, then it is wrong to
> circumvent the restrictions that differentiate them from the Pro version.
> It
> might not be illegal, but I for one think it is wrong.
For years Borland has had licensing restrictions that are pretty explicate.
If they really wanted to prevent this practice and didn't foresee it in
their license when released it's up to them to quickly revise the license
and stream it into the product as it is being downloaded.
OTOH Borland said one of the objectives of the Turbo product was to put fun
back into programming and what's more fun than seeing people pontificate
over the moral and ethical principals of their fellow community citizens.
;-)
Alexander Tereshchenko
1. Despite endless chain of bad releases, I still like and prefer Delphi.
2. RemObjects is smaller company, with minimal third-party support.
DevCo/Borland feels more solid (well, resolution of spin off can change
this of course).
3. I think that possible VCL-to-WinForms migration solution (what ever
it can be) is more likely to be made by DevCo.
> Why not just use Chrome then?
--
Oliver Townshend
> Well said.
Ditto. Especially when today there's no lack of free software available
that can be used legally.
Oliver Townshend
Bob S
"John Jacobson" <jake@j[nospam]snewsreader.com> wrote:
>I'm not convinced by the argument that the minimum of the law should be the
>maximum of one's morals. There are a lot of things that are legal but wrong, at
>least by the way I reckon morality and ethics.
>
>To me, software piracy is morally and ethically wrong because it is a type of
>stealing. It would be wrong whether or not any politician had ever acknowledged
>it. (My morals are not for sale to the lowest common denominator in politics.)
>I view the limitations on the free versions of the Turbos in the same way. If
>Borland intends them to be used a certain way when free and they have in good
>faith offered them for free for this type of use, then it is wrong to
>circumvent the restrictions that differentiate them from the Pro version. It
>might not be illegal, but I for one think it is wrong.
+1
Well said.
Dave Keighan
> > I view the limitations on the free versions of the Turbos in the
> > same way. If Borland intends them to be used a certain way when
> > free and they have in good faith offered them for free for this
> > type of use, then it is wrong to circumvent the restrictions that
> > differentiate them from the Pro version. It might not be illegal,
> > but I for one think it is wrong.
>
> For years Borland has had licensing restrictions that are pretty
> explicate. If they really wanted to prevent this practice and didn't
> foresee it in their license when released it's up to them to quickly
> revise the license and stream it into the product as it is being
> downloaded.
>
> OTOH Borland said one of the objectives of the Turbo product was to
> put fun back into programming and what's more fun than seeing people
> pontificate over the moral and ethical principals of their fellow
> community citizens. ;-)
So do you think restricting the Turbos to non-commercial development
[for those that actually care about what the license has to say] is the
answer - not that anyone has asked /us/ the question?
--
Dave
Therapist [Open Source]
Guild of Delphi Hobbyists and Occupational Developers
Dean Hill
> What would it take to get you to use BDS for .Net stuff?
1) .NET 2.0 support
2) VS 2005 compatible projects
Everyone at the office uses VS 2005 so whatever I did would have to be
compatible with them which is why I list VS 2005 compatible projects.
Coding would be done in C#, no question.
It may sound crazy but it would also be nice to have the VB.NET
compiler included in BDS as client code is done in VB.NET because
developers are easy to come by.
Cheers
Dean
Andreas Hausladen
fix, but I don't know if I can ever fix it. because it does not happen on
my system. But I do not want anybody who uses TurboMerger to reinstall his
Windows system. "Fortunatelly" this bug seems to happen only on very few
machines and at the moment only hobbiests have reported that bug. But the
risk of a Windows reinstallation is to high, so I dropped the download for
the moment.
PS: It is not the WinXP 64bit bug.
David Clegg
> It may sound crazy but it would also be nice to have the VB.NET
> compiler included in BDS as client code is done in VB.NET because
> developers are easy to come by.
BDS already has rudimentary VB.NET support. You can compile and debug,
but not much else.
http://cc.borland.com/Item.aspx?id=22690
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dcl...@gmail.com
http://cc.borland.com/Author.aspx?ID=72299
QualityCentral. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
http://qc.borland.com
"But Marge, what if we chose the wrong religion? Each week we just make
God madder and madder." - Homer Simpson
Diego
<jake@j[nospam]snewsreader.com> said:
> If Borland intends them to be used a certain way when free and they
> have in good faith offered them for free for this type of use, then it
> is wrong to circumvent the restrictions that differentiate them from
> the Pro version. It might not be illegal, but I for one think it is
> wrong.
So you buy a car that reports to only allow you to listen to AM radio.
But you find you can actually also listen to FM radio. Are you going to
never listen to FM in the car because it was promoted by the car
company to only allow AM and FM was only available in the higher end
model? I don't think morals have anything to do with it. You didn't do
anything illegal or wrong. But you've got FM baby!!! :)
Diego
> Dean Hill wrote:
>
>> It may sound crazy but it would also be nice to have the VB.NET
>> compiler included in BDS as client code is done in VB.NET because
>> developers are easy to come by.
>
> BDS already has rudimentary VB.NET support. You can compile and debug,
> but not much else.
>
> http://cc.borland.com/Item.aspx?id=22690
NO, NO NO!!! Kill VB.NET. Let it die. Earth will be a better place! :)
Dean Hill
> NO, NO NO!!! Kill VB.NET. Let it die. Earth will be a better place! :)
As much as I would love that, there is still a place for it in our
environment. Actually, its not a bad language. Much better then the
VB of old.
Cheers
Dean
Oliver Townshend
> you find you can actually also listen to FM radio. Are you going to never
> listen to FM in the car because it was promoted by the car company to only
> allow AM and FM was only available in the higher end model? I don't think
> morals have anything to do with it. You didn't do anything illegal or
> wrong. But you've got FM baby!!! :)
It's wrong. Listen to AM. Get a life, learn morality and stop bringing up
stupid examples.
Oliver Townshend
Diego
Learn morailty? Who are you to preach such things? Next you're gonna
bring up religion? I think you've stumbled upon the wrong newsgroup.
Move along.
Stop being all high and mighty, preaching morality on something so
trivial as being able to install third party components in Turbo.
Listen to FM. Do drugs, get chicks and rock on man! :)
John Jacobson
<4503...@newsgroups.borland.com>
> So you buy a car that reports to only allow you to listen to AM radio.
> But you find you can actually also listen to FM radio. Are you going to
> never listen to FM in the car because it was promoted by the car
> company to only allow AM and FM was only available in the higher end
> model? I don't think morals have anything to do with it. You didn't do
> anything illegal or wrong. But you've got FM baby!!! :)
No, it is more like a friend gives you an old PC of his and you use a disk
recovery tool to get his bank account information from his deleted but not
shredded Quicken files.
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