Hot Fix 5 - WOW!
Esteban Pacheco
But REALLY! wow, it is just like D5/D7, switching from design form to code,
i can switch my Data modules with 40+ components almost without flickering.
Forms with tons of visual components are instantaneous.
Thanks DevCo guys for killing this bug, it was definitly the last step to
fully confirm that Delphi 2006 is THE BEST delphi so far.
Esteban Pacheco
A Delphi Programming Blog
http://estebanp.blogspot.com
Alan Garny
news:448b0655$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Guys, i know that there was already a big thread about this.
>
> But REALLY! wow, it is just like D5/D7, switching from design form to
> code, i can switch my Data modules with 40+ components almost without
> flickering. Forms with tons of visual components are instantaneous.
>
> Thanks DevCo guys for killing this bug, it was definitly the last step to
> fully confirm that Delphi 2006 is THE BEST delphi so far.
Are you pulling our legs? Where is Hotfix 5 ?
Alan.
DJSox
now, though there is an occasional delay. Hotfix 5 makes D2006 Pro a joy to
use once again.
Dan
"Alan Garny" <som...@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:448b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Ingvar Anderberg
"Alan Garny" <som...@somewhere.com> skrev
> news:448b0655$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
>
> Alan.
>
>
Here's your legs back:
ftp://ftpd.borland.com/download/bds/bds_2006/hotfixes/BDS2006Upd2_Hotfix5.zip
ftp://ftpd.borland.com/download/bds/bds_2006/hotfixes/BDS2006Upd2_Hotfix6.zip
Abdullah Kauchali
"DJSox" <thesox...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:448b1029$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>I don't think it's official yet, but it is great! D2006 is very close to D7
>now, though there is an occasional delay. Hotfix 5 makes D2006 Pro a joy to
>use once again.
Hi DJSox,
Is this with both the .NET and Win32 personalities installed?
ZJ
>now, though there is an occasional delay. Hotfix 5 makes D2006 Pro a joy to
>use once again.
>
> Dan
... and the only thing I miss now is the old Component Palette layout.
I hope DevCo will make it as an option in the next release.
Regards,
Zenon
Ingvar Nilsen
> D2006 is very close to D7 now
I am not sure if this originally was the goal of the development team
<g>
--
Ingvar Nilsen
http://www.ingvarius.com
Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]
I don't even use the component palette any more!
1) Press CTRL+ALT+P
2) Type "but"
3) The only item listed is TButton
4) Click it + use it
*Much* faster!
ZJ
message news:448b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Yeap, I know that and I am not talking about functionality.
The search is very handy, but I was thinking about the IDE layout
I mean Component Palette placed as it was in Delphi 7.
I don't think there is anything that makes it impossible to
add search (and other functionality enhancements) keeping
old palette layout - at least as an option.
I am using wide screen display and it would take a very little space on it
to display all components. Also I have a lots of components installed
and I often don't remember the name of the one I am looking for.
As a side note, I believe that side effect of making Delphi looking just
like VisualStudio
is that as soon as Delphi developer gets used to the new IDE layout it is
much
easier for him/her to switch to VisualStudio. That may be a Good Thing(tm)
but (when associated with pure qualities of the last few Delphi releases)
it does not help Borland to keep their user base.
I realize it was probably done to make it easier for VB guys to switch to
Delphi
but I think it is working in the opposite direction now.
Regards,
Zenon
Alan Garny
news:448b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> "Alan Garny" <som...@somewhere.com> skrev
>> "Esteban Pacheco" <lastbo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:448b0655$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>> Are you pulling our legs? Where is Hotfix 5 ?
>
> ftp://ftpd.borland.com/download/bds/bds_2006/hotfixes/BDS2006Upd2_Hotfix5.zip
> ftp://ftpd.borland.com/download/bds/bds_2006/hotfixes/BDS2006Upd2_Hotfix6.zip
Thanks, I had been standing on one leg since I left D7 for BDS2006, but now
I am back on two legs indeed. It's nice to now be able open all the forms in
my project and browse through them without any major delay. Kind of makes me
wonder what prevented Borland from delivering such 'speed' in the first
place. It really tells me that BDS2006 has also been rushed. Well, I guess I
shall try to be philosophical and appreciate the fact that things are
improving... :)
Alan.
Ingvar Anderberg
"Alan Garny" <som...@somewhere.com> skrev
> "Ingvar Anderberg" <what...@foundit.com> wrote in message
>> Here's your legs back:
>>
>> ftp://ftpd.borland.com/download/bds/bds_2006/hotfixes/BDS2006Upd2_Hotfix5.zip
>> ftp://ftpd.borland.com/download/bds/bds_2006/hotfixes/BDS2006Upd2_Hotfix6.zip
>
> "Alan Garny" <som...@somewhere.com> wrote
>
> Thanks, I had been standing on one leg since I left D7 for BDS2006, but now
> I am back on two legs indeed.
Good to hear :)
> my project and browse through them without any major delay. Kind of makes me
> wonder what prevented Borland from delivering such 'speed' in the first
> place. It really tells me that BDS2006 has also been rushed. Well, I guess I
Maybe this delay isn't obvious all the time
In fact I haven't noticed any at all.
I'll guess it depend on the kind of application of course
how many components etc.
/ia
Jan Derk
Depends. In Delphi 7:
1) Click Standard
2) Click TButton
That is 2 steps instead of 4.
Or
D7: 2 mouse clicks
D10: 6 keys + grabbing the mouse + 1 mouse click
The only disadvantage of the D7 tool palette was the scrolling on small
screens. On larger screens and with the help of GExpert multi-tab
setting the scrolling is no longer an issue and less users steps are
involved.
So I too would like the tabs back, preferably combined with the D10
search feature.
Jan Derk
Michael Stum
Yes, but there are still ways to improve it:
http://qc.borland.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?d=10063
http://qc.borland.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?d=9998
DJSox
been much better received, at least from my perspective. Don't get me wrong,
I have no desire to go back to D7, I have grown accustomed to both the new
layout and the new features(code folding mainly).
Dan
"Ingvar Nilsen" <no....@ingvarius.com> wrote in message
news:448b1481$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
DJSox
everything else in the ide is stock, I have 100's of 3rd party components
installed. My forms on the other hand are quite complicated.
I did load up a vcl.net sample app, and it seemed to switch as fast, but
since I don't do Dotnet much, it's not a good comparison.
"Abdullah Kauchali" <n...@non.com> wrote in message
news:448b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
Nathanial Woolls
>> 2) Type "but"
>> 3) The only item listed is TButton
>> 4) Click it + use it
>> *Much* faster!
>
> Depends. In Delphi 7:
>
> 1) Click Standard
> 2) Click TButton
>
> That is 2 steps instead of 4.
No offense but that's a fairly flawed comparison imho. You aren't
factoring in the fact that most (hopefully all) programmers are damned
fast touch typists. There is no discernible extraneous hand/digit
movement to type the steps for D2006, especially if you replace step 4
with just hitting <enter> to place the component.
In Delphi 7, yes, it may be two "steps" or "clicks", but that's not
including all of the movement from keyboard to mouse to keyboard, the
hunting for the right tab visually and moving the mouse there, then
hunting for the component visually and again moving the mouse there and
clicking, and finally dropping it on the form.
I understand that there are a lot of people that prefer the D7 component
palette, and why really doesn't matter. If people like it, then they
like it and will, most likely, be more productive with it. However,
speaking strictly of technical advantages of each palette type, I see
nothing that the D7 palette has over the D2006 palette. I doubt very
much that anyone can drop any component on a form more quickly in D7
than can be done in D2006 (but, of course, I could be wrong).
Rod
I would prefer a Delphi 6 IDE with D2006 RTL+VCL+Compiler.
Ottar Holstad
> screens. On larger screens and with the help of GExpert multi-tab
> setting the scrolling is no longer an issue and less users steps are
> involved.
Well, I would also consider it a disadvantage that the old style palette
doesn't lend itself to be put on a auto-hide panel. It would have to be
docked horizontally, and there isn't space for that at the top of the IDE,
so it would have to be docked to the bottom. Wouldn't look right.
Michael Stum
> Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software] wrote:
>
>>> ... and the only thing I miss now is the old Component Palette
>>> layout.
>
>> I don't even use the component palette any more!
>
>> 1) Press CTRL+ALT+P
>> 2) Type "but"
>> 3) The only item listed is TButton
>> 4) Click it + use it
>> *Much* faster!
>
> Depends. In Delphi 7:
>
> 1) Click Standard
> 2) Click TButton
>
Depends. In Delphi 7:
1) Try to remember in which Tab TImageList is stored
2) Scroll all the way back to it because you were just working with
components from the tab at the other end
3) click TImageList
Michael Stum
Additional Challenge:
Replace "TImageList" with and JVCL Component in the above example.
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
>> 1) Press CTRL+ALT+P
>> 2) Type "but"
>> 3) The only item listed is TButton
>> 4) Click it + use it
>> *Much* faster!
>
> Depends. In Delphi 7:
>
> 1) Click Standard
> 2) Click TButton
>
> That is 2 steps instead of 4.
"Step " 3 is just a comment, so its just 3, plus you can just hit enter
instead of using the mouse which really makes it 2, though you'll then have
to position the control. Further, if you're just using mouse then the 2
steps you list are equal.
But then if you have more than a few 3rd part control sets installed, you
will have to repeatedly click to get the standard tab to be visible, or
right-click and click the standard menu item. Now BDS wins.
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million
typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare.
Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." — Robert
Wilensky
ZJ
"Michael Stum" <dev...@stum.de> wrote in message
news:448b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
..
..
> Additional Challenge:
> Replace "TImageList" with and JVCL Component in the above example.
The way search is working in BDS 2006 is also a bit flawed.
If one is looking for all *Label components it is not enough for
him/her to write just "label" to find components like
TLabel
TLMDLabel
TRzLabel
...
Also, I believe there is nothing which prevents the addition of search
capability to the Component Palette and still give an user an option to
chose the old layout if he or she prefer the one.
Regards,
Zenon
Michael Stum
> "Michael Stum" <dev...@stum.de> wrote in message
> news:448b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> ..
> ..
>> Additional Challenge:
>> Replace "TImageList" with and JVCL Component in the above example.
>
> The way search is working in BDS 2006 is also a bit flawed.
> If one is looking for all *Label components it is not enough for
> him/her to write just "label" to find components like
>
> TLabel
> TLMDLabel
> TRzLabel
> ...
Yes, this is one my my problems as well - see my other posting in reply
to Peter.
>
> Also, I believe there is nothing which prevents the addition of search
> capability to the Component Palette and still give an user an option to
> chose the old layout if he or she prefer the one.
Indeed. Well, one may say "too many options are bad becuase it clutters
the UI", I think it may be an option to have the choice between both styles.
You may want to open a QC Article if none exists right now.
Tony Caduto
>
> Maybe this delay isn't obvious all the time
> In fact I haven't noticed any at all.
> I'll guess it depend on the kind of application of course
> how many components etc.
>
>
>
> /ia
It has to do with the number of design time packages you have installed,
if you are only using the stock components or just a few 3rd party ones
you won't notice it.
--
Tony Caduto
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com
Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql 8.x
Liz
> > > 1) Press CTRL+ALT+P
> > > 2) Type "but"
> > > 3) The only item listed is TButton
> > > 4) Click it + use it
instead of clicking you can press enter.
--
Liz the Brit
Delphi things I have released: http://www.xcalibur.co.uk/DelphiThings
Alan Garny
news:448b887c$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Ingvar Anderberg wrote:
>> Maybe this delay isn't obvious all the time
>> In fact I haven't noticed any at all.
>> I'll guess it depend on the kind of application of course
>> how many components etc.
> if you are only using the stock components or just a few 3rd party ones
> you won't notice it.
Well, I am not sure. I don't have that many 3rd party components, yet,
before installing hotfix 5, I could definitely a delay when switching
between forms. Now, this is more less instantaneous. Anyway, I am glad
things are improving.
Alan.
Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]
1) Install a few component packages
2) Decide you want the last component on the last pallete
That use to take me ages. I used to be so annoyed with the amount of time
it took to select different components on different tabs, especially if you
couldn't see both tabs at the same time!
The new one uses more space, but it is *definately* more productive!
Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]
One day I see the IDE having an auto-update feature, or maybe plugging
itself into the Windows Update client :-)
Dave White
news:448b557c$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> No offense but that's a fairly flawed comparison imho. You aren't
> factoring in the fact that most (hopefully all) programmers are damned
> fast touch typists. There is no discernible extraneous hand/digit
That's a pretty big assumption. I rate myself as a fairly decent
programmer/developer - I make a very good living from it. I've been writing
software for 25 years, starting with Z80 assembly and now loving Delphi, but
I can't touch type to save my life. So maybe your reasoning is flawed :).
Chris Burrows
>I think this new "hotfix" approach is definately a good one!
>
> One day I see the IDE having an auto-update feature, or maybe plugging
> itself into the Windows Update client :-)
No! No! No! Please - no! The last thing I need is a constantly changing
development environment.
Please don't suggest a 'prompt me when available' option. It is getting
worse than 'clippy' ever was. I've already got too many applications
interrupting my train of thought telling me that they need updating. Norton
AntiVirus has recently taken to telling me that there are updates, it then
spends a minute or so going through the motions, only to announce that my
system is already up to date!
I recently had to download a special program to uninstall an update manager
that I never asked to install in the first place, that was telling me it
needed to update itself :-(
Then there are the applications that automatically update themselves and
silently reboot windows ....
I'm really happy that the hotfixes are being made available, but so far I
have had no need of them. I'd prefer to let sleeping dogs lie.
--
Chris Burrows
CFB Software
http://www.cfbsoftware.com/gpcp
Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]
> but I can't touch type to save my life. So maybe your reasoning is flawed
> :).
It's never too late to learn!
When I took my options at school I asked for the "Computers" class. I was
really disappointed to be put on the "Office studies" course, but I was even
more disappointed when the teacher announced that the computer room was
double-booked for one of my two lessons per week and we'd all have to spend
that lesson in the old typewriter room learning to touch type.
About 5 years after leaving school I got my first job as a programmer. I
decided that two-finger-typing was just too frustrating, so I decided to
place both hands on the keyboard and start again. It was so slow and
frustrating that I gave up a few times, but luckily I kept trying again.
Now I can touch-type, I can develop apps much faster now than I used to be
able to.
The problem is, I still find that the amount of time it takes to actually
write code is the biggest bottleneck in my development!
You should practise :-)
--
Pete
====
Audio compression components, DIB graphics controls, ECO extensions,
FastStrings
http://www.droopyeyes.com
My blog
http://blogs.slcdug.org/petermorris/
Kevin
DevCo please continue in this way.
Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]
> development environment.
It would only change if you told it to.
> Please don't suggest a 'prompt me when available' option.
Why? Don't you think it is good to know when there are new updates
available? Even if it comes only in the form of an announcement on the BDS
start page?
> It is getting worse than 'clippy' ever was
Windows update is nothing like clippy.
> I've already got too many applications interrupting my train of thought
> telling me that they need updating.
I don't suspect it would happen very often, and then once you had decided
what action to take regarding that update you wouldn't be asked again
anyway.
> Norton AntiVirus has recently taken to telling me that there are updates,
> it then spends a minute or so going through the motions, only to announce
> that my system is already up to date!
But that's obviously a bad implementation and has nothing to do with it.
> I recently had to download a special program to uninstall an update
> manager that I never asked to install in the first place, that was telling
> me it needed to update itself :-(
Bad implementation again.
> Then there are the applications that automatically update themselves and
> silently reboot windows ....
Bad implementation.
> I'm really happy that the hotfixes are being made available, but so far I
> have had no need of them. I'd prefer to let sleeping dogs lie.
It just sounds to me like your opinion is based on bad experience rather
than it really being a bad idea. I can't think of a single reason (user
perspective) of not implementing it (well).
Sebastian Modersohn
> If one is looking for all *Label components it is not enough for
> him/her to write just "label" to find components like
>
> TLabel
> TLMDLabel
> TRzLabel
This is exactly what I posted as an enhancement request in QC:
Report No: 27164 Status: Reported
Tool Palette filtering should allow filtering by any substring
http://qc.borland.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?d=27164
Please consider rating and/or voting for this report if you'd like to see
this implemented in future versions!
Regards
--
Sebastian
Rod
> Hot fix are great!
> DevCo please continue in this way.
>
>
101% agreed !
I.P. Nichols
>> ...I can't touch type to save my life. So maybe your reasoning is flawed
>> ;)
>
> It's never too late to learn!
In my case I wouldn't bet on that.<g>
> we'd all have to spend that lesson in the old typewriter room learning to
> touch type.
I'm from that era where learning touch typing was considered "unmanly" and
that's why almost all newspaper reporters of my era are two finger typists.
My high school was all boys and the only place where a typing course was
available was in the girls high school several blocks away. No guy would be
caught dead attending a class at girls-high but there were just a few girls
who took special math and science classes that were only available at
boys-high. And you can bet those girls didn't take typing since it was
considered "clerical" and their aim was to get into one of the better
collages which required advance math and science.
When my kids were going to high school I required they take typing which I
considered a good skill for the coming computer age. But more important I
made them take the most advanced English classes taught at their school - my
daughter wasn't a good student and I had a hellva fight with her school
principal who didn't want to admit her to a 4th level advanced English
class. Her teacher was a really tough nut and she just barely managed to get
a passing grade but several times in later years she thanked me and
considers much of her considerable success in the business world was made
possible by that one English class.
Not being a touch typist myself, I've always considered a nimble mind better
than nimble fingers. ;-)
Stu
This is similar to 10063, which is Open. I like 27164 better, because
I'd rather not have to use wildcards to get this behavior. Might be
worth linking them.
-- Stu
Sebastian Modersohn
> rather not have to use wildcards to get this behavior. Might be worth
> linking them.
The only way to link them is marking 27164 as a duplicate of 10063 which it
isn't. Beside that, marking an open report as a duplicate isn't possible
AFAIK.
Link to 10063 for convenience:
Report No: 10063 ( RAID: 226225 ) Status: Open
Allow wildcards in the Tools Palette incremental search
http://qc.borland.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?d=10063
--
Sebastian
Jan Derk
> No offense but that's a fairly flawed comparison imho. You aren't
> factoring in the fact that most (hopefully all) programmers are
> damned fast touch typists. There is no discernible extraneous
> hand/digit movement to type the steps for D2006, especially if you
> replace step 4 with just hitting <enter> to place the component.
I did not dismiss the fact that D10 has a cool search feature. That is
why I said that I want to have the old tabs combined with the D10
search feature. Best of both worlds.
> In Delphi 7, yes, it may be two "steps" or "clicks", but that's not
> including all of the movement from keyboard to mouse to keyboard,
Well in D10 you have to grab for the mouse too because one needs to
place the component after you added it.
> the hunting for the right tab visually and moving the mouse there,
> then
> hunting for the component visually and again moving the mouse there
> and clicking, and finally dropping it on the form.
You are right when refering to the original D7 tabs, but there's is no
hunting if you have a large screen and GExperts. Every tab is always at
the same place. Plus I have "Show Tabs as (flat) buttons" enabled. So
there is no more cofusing jumping of rows.
> I understand that there are a lot of people that prefer the D7
> component palette, and why really doesn't matter. If people like it,
> then they like it and will, most likely, be more productive with it.
> However, speaking strictly of technical advantages of each palette
> type, I see nothing that the D7 palette has over the D2006 palette.
> I doubt very much that anyone can drop any component on a form more
> quickly in D7 than can be done in D2006 (but, of course, I could be
> wrong).
As I said, the optimal tab bar is a mix between the two.
Jan Derk
Jan Derk
> But then if you have more than a few 3rd part control sets installed,
> you will have to repeatedly click to get the standard tab to be
> visible, or right-click and click the standard menu item. Now BDS
> wins.
I fully agree that the scrolling that is required with D7 without
GExperts is truelly awkward.
But as I said in my post, no scrolling is required if you have GExpert
installed and a large screen. Even better, if you select "Show tabs as
flat buttons" all tabs are always at the same location. No more weird
tab jumping like there is in the D7 without GExperts or in D10 where
groups move up or down depending on the ones that are open.
GUI elements that often change locations are very unproductive.
Jan Derk
Jan Derk
> Depends. In Delphi 7:
> 1) Try to remember in which Tab TImageList is stored
> 2) Scroll all the way back to it because you were just working with
> components from the tab at the other end 3) click TImageList
Both 1 and 2 are not required if you have GExperts installed as I said
in my post.
Jan Derk
Jan Derk
> Additional Challenge:
> Replace "TImageList" with and JVCL Component in the above example.
That's why I wrote in my post that I prefer to have the D7/Gexperts
tabs combined with the D10 search feature. With the D10 search fixed so
one can search on substrings anywhere as proposed by ZJ below.
Jan Derk
ZJ
"Sebastian Modersohn" <ms...@nospam.choosepill.BLOCK.com> wrote in message
news:448b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> This is exactly what I posted as an enhancement request in QC:
>
> Report No: 27164 Status: Reported
> Tool Palette filtering should allow filtering by any substring
> http://qc.borland.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?d=27164
>
> Please consider rating and/or voting for this report if you'd like to see
> this implemented in future versions!
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Sebastian
Usefulness of the enhancement you proposed is so obvious
that voting for it would be a waste of my precious voting points,
which presently are all assigned to native Win64 compiler request.
;o)
Regards,
Zenon
Steve Troxell
> "Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]" <pete@NO_droopyeyes_SPAM.com> wrote in
> message news:448bca01$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
>>itself into the Windows Update client :-)
>
> No! No! No! Please - no! The last thing I need is a constantly changing
> development environment.
Then disable the autoupdate feature.
Steve Troxell
Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]
I would! I must have programmed for at least 10 years before teaching
myself, that was 12 years ago.
> I'm from that era where learning touch typing was considered "unmanly"
I wonder how many boys you think were with me in the "typing room" back in
1987? :-)
> Not being a touch typist myself, I've always considered a nimble mind
> better than nimble fingers. ;-)
Me too, but I consider both to be better than one :-)
I.P. Nichols
>
>> Not being a touch typist myself, I've always considered a nimble mind
>> better than nimble fingers. ;-)
>
> Me too, but I consider both to be better than one :-)
Not me, why I do some of my very best thinking in between key strokes.<g>
Kristofer Skaug
> No offense but that's a fairly flawed comparison imho.
I disagree. Nine out of ten times, the actions that follow selection of a
component from the pallette essentially demand mouse use anyway:
a) Placing/aligning the component on the form,
b) shifting over to the Object Inspector to set its properties (e.g.
Caption, OnClick event etc).
Undoubtedly there are keyboard navigation means for this as well, but in 10
years of using Delphi I haven't even contemplated trying to design forms in
"no-mouse" mode. It's like building a sandcastle with a teaspoon, sure it
can be done (esp. if you're a damnfast teaspoon worker) but other tools are
more appropriate (a #3 blue bucket, yoghurt cups for turrets, etc).
--
Kristofer
Jolyon Smith
says...
> No offense but that's a fairly flawed comparison imho. You aren't
> factoring in the fact that most (hopefully all) programmers are damned
> fast touch typists.
I don't know ANYONE who can hit Ctrl+Alt+P without taking their hand off
the mouse. (Ok, there are exceptions: Left-handers who use the mouse in
their left hand would be OK).
But even for left handers, typing "but" involves separate halves of the
keyboard, so those utlra fast touch typists who can bang out b-u-t
faster than you can blink are still forced to take their hand (left or
right) off of their mouse to type that in.
> In Delphi 7, yes, it may be two "steps" or "clicks", but that's not
> including all of the movement from keyboard to mouse to keyboard
There is no movement to and fro in D7 - your hand is on the mouse ANYWAY
because you are about to place a component on a form, which is a mouse
driven activity.
In BDS2006, using your recommended steps for locating components, i.e.
typing in their name, THAT is the scenario that involves going backwards
and forwards between mouse and keyboard.
It -cannot- be more efficient to use a keyboard shortcut that involves
removing your hand from the mouse. It seems self evident to me that the
component palette - the focus of a mouse based activity - should be
optimised for mouse navigation, not keyboard use.
It's just common sense.
+0.02
<shrug>
--
Jolyon Smith
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> It -cannot- be more efficient to use a keyboard shortcut that involves
> removing your hand from the mouse. It seems self evident to me that
> the component palette - the focus of a mouse based activity - should
> be optimised for mouse navigation, not keyboard use.
While it certainly *also* needs to be good for mosue use, keyboard can
indeed be more efficient depending on what you are doing and how you think
it through. Most of us naturally tend to think in terms of one control at a
time - select it from the palette, drop it on the form, position and size,
and so on.
However, if you know you need, say 8 edit controls and labels, and a few
buttons, there's no reason you couldn't get them all on the form using
nothing but the keyboard, then grab the mouse and, without having to go back
to the keyboard, position and size all the controls consecutively.
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"Nurture your mind with great thoughts. To believe in the heroic makes
heroes." - Benjamin Disraeli
Jolyon Smith
says...
> Jolyon Smith wrote:
> >
> > It -cannot- be more efficient to use a keyboard shortcut that involves
> > removing your hand from the mouse. It seems self evident to me that
> > the component palette - the focus of a mouse based activity - should
> > be optimised for mouse navigation, not keyboard use.
>
> While it certainly *also* needs to be good for mosue use, keyboard can
> indeed be more efficient depending on what you are doing and how you think
> it through. Most of us naturally tend to think in terms of one control at a
> time - select it from the palette, drop it on the form, position and size,
> and so on.
>
> However, if you know you need, say 8 edit controls and labels, and a few
> buttons, there's no reason you couldn't get them all on the form using
> nothing but the keyboard, then grab the mouse and, without having to go back
> to the keyboard, position and size all the controls consecutively.
Good rule of thumb: Optimize for the common case, not the rare.
Anyone can come up with hypothetical scenarios where approach 'A' is
more efficient/works better/is easier than approach 'B'.
But if that scenario is either entirely hypothetical or at best a much
less common scenario than others in which the bias is reversed......
I honestly don't remember a time when I've ever found myself thinking
"hmmm, I'll just drop 8 controls of type X on this form and then lay
them out later".
Does anyone honestly work this way the _majority_ of the time?
Perhaps they do.... any application that has bizarre tab orders,
mismatched short-cut label accelerators and controls.... it would
certainly go some way toward explaining such things.
;)
--
Jolyon Smith
Kyle A. Miller
> So I too would like the tabs back, preferably combined with the D10
> search feature.
Set your component palette options to the following:
Button size: Large
Auto Collapse Categories: True
Show Button Captions: True
Vertical Category Captions: True
Vertical Flow Layout: False
Dock the palette to the top and set its height to be about two icons highs.
Not exactly tabs, but functionally the same. Categories are vertical
instead of horizontal, so you will be able to see more categories before
needing to scroll. Only one category is visible at a time. Click
Standard. Click TButton. Drop on form. The way you like.
Here's an image of the final product. Gray color scheme chosen for D7
familiarity purposes. Better ones available
David Clegg
> No guy would be caught dead attending a class at girls-high
Hmm... I can see many benefits in doing this. Ones that would be well
worth the ribbings received from classmates, I should add. :-)
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dcl...@gmail.com
http://cc.borland.com/Author.aspx?ID=72299
QualityCentral. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
http://qc.borland.com
"When I first heard that Marge was joining the police academy, I
thought it would be fun and zany, like that movie -- Spaceballs. But
instead it was dark and disturbing like that movie, Police Academy." -
Homer Simpson
Don Strenczewilk
after applying Hot Fix 5 when switching from the editor to my forms from
hell, i.e. http://donstrenz.com/images/nonvisualcomps.jpg (the
implementation starts at line 1050). Also, when loading the IDE after one of
those monsters was saved with the previous session, everthing on the screen
would strobe for several seconds, as if a screen update was being forced
after each component load. That effect is barely noticable now.
"Tony Caduto" <sup...@amsoftwaredesign.com> wrote in message
news:448b887c$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Ingvar Anderberg wrote:
>
>> Maybe this delay isn't obvious all the time
>> In fact I haven't noticed any at all.
>> I'll guess it depend on the kind of application of course
>> how many components etc.
>>
> It has to do with the number of design time packages you have installed,
> if you are only using the stock components or just a few 3rd party ones
> you won't notice it.
DJSox
strongly on the form's complexity.
Dan
"Don Strenczewilk" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:448cc22c$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Chris Burrows
news:448c55bc$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>>
>> No! No! No! Please - no! The last thing I need is a constantly changing
>> development environment.
>
> Then disable the autoupdate feature.
>
OK - as long as the autoupdate feature does not completely replace the
traditional way of announcing the availability of updates, and is not a
substitute for other improvements in this area.
My configuration control requirements are that I need to be able to clearly
find out:
1. Exactly what I already have - including upgrades, service packs, hotfixes
etc..
2. Exactly what upgrades, service packs, hotfixes are available.
3. Exactly what new features / problem fixes are addressed in the updates.
All of this I need to be able to do when I decide I need to, not when DevCo
thinks I need to.
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> I honestly don't remember a time when I've ever found myself thinking
> "hmmm, I'll just drop 8 controls of type X on this form and then lay
> them out later".
Just dumping them "randomly", no, because you are already using the mouse -
so naturally your going to position it.
> Does anyone honestly work this way the _majority_ of the time?
Currently not likely, what I'm suggesting is that *because* of the ability
to use the tool palette that way, it is probably worth trying to do so. Some
may decide they like it some won't. It's no different than getting into the
habit of using other new features in the IDE - it takes a little while to
even remember each time, and therefore seems "unnatural" at first, but after
a short while one often finds it becoming natural.
With the mouse, I *have* dragged several edits and other controls, one at a
time, into *very rough* positions many times, aligning them and otherwise
polishing the UI later. So to me it's not a big leap to try using the
keyboard for consecutive controls and then making the position of all
controls a single task. For me it's just a matter of not having worked that
way previously, but I'm going to make a point of trying it.
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as
sacred as the laws of God and there is not a force of law and public
justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence." - John Adams
Jolyon Smith
says...
> > Does anyone honestly work this way the _majority_ of the time?
>
> Currently not likely, what I'm suggesting is that *because* of the ability
> to use the tool palette that way, it is probably worth trying to do so. Some
> may decide they like it some won't.
No, I'm sorry this is just idiotic.
You are saying that the IDE should dictate the way we work rather than
support the way we work.
That's like saying that if a spell-checker deliberately ships with an
incorrect spelling of a word we should all just get used to spelling the
word this new way because that's the way our word processor has desided
[sic] we should.
> It's no different than getting into the
> habit of using other new features in the IDE - it takes a little while to
> even remember each time, and therefore seems "unnatural" at first, but after
> a short while one often finds it becoming natural.
You might just as well say argue that the form designer is entirely
superfluous - just give us a text editor and a text dfm, and you can do
anything you used to be able to do with the visual form designer, you
just have to get used to the new way of doing things.
(Don't through up visual control alignment or anything else as something
that can only be done visually, just because that's the way it is done
currently - visual form design is just an IDE feature. If the IDE
dictates we should work differently, well then we'd all just have to get
used to it. Wouldn't we?)
--
Jolyon Smith
Steve Troxell
> "Steve Troxell" <steve_...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message
> news:448c55bc$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
>>>No! No! No! Please - no! The last thing I need is a constantly changing
>>>development environment.
>>
>>Then disable the autoupdate feature.
>>
>
>
> OK - as long as the autoupdate feature does not completely replace the
> traditional way of announcing the availability of updates, and is not a
> substitute for other improvements in this area.
I would certainly agree with that.
Steve Troxell
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> No, I'm sorry this is just idiotic.
>
> You are saying that the IDE should dictate the way we work rather than
> support the way we work.
I have no idea how you reach that conclusion from my suggestion. The only
thing I can make from your comment is that you never attempt to make use of
new IDE functionality. Do you use code templates? Code Completion?
Refactoring? If you use any of these then why would you not try a new tool
palette functionality?
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"At the apex of every great tragedy of mankind there stands the figure
of an incorruptible altruist." - Ayn Rand
tony caduto
> I don't have an awful lot of 3rd party components and see a huge improvement
> after applying Hot Fix 5 when switching from the editor to my forms from
> hell, i.e. http://donstrenz.com/images/nonvisualcomps.jpg
Wow, that is the form from hell :-) How come you don't put all that
stuff in a data module?
--
Tony Caduto
AM Software Design
Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com
tony caduto
> I think you are right, the "old'(pre-hotfix) switching speed depends
> strongly on the form's complexity.
>
> Dan
That only one part of it, it also has to do with the number of packages
installed. I have around 900 total packages installed and before the
hotfix even simple forms took forever to switch.
Later,
DJSox
Bruce McGee
> No, I'm sorry this is just idiotic.
>
> You are saying that the IDE should dictate the way we work rather
> than support the way we work.
I read it as more of a suggestion to learn the features of your IDE.
Chances are you'll find some of them useful.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Jolyon Smith
says...
> > You are saying that the IDE should dictate the way we work rather than
> > support the way we work.
>
> I have no idea how you reach that conclusion from my suggestion.
<quote>
*because* of the ability
to use the tool palette that way, it is probably worth trying to do so.
For me it's just a matter of not having worked that
way previously, but I'm going to make a point of trying it.
</quote>
i.e. if the IDE decides this is the way we should work, then this is the
way we should work, and if we don't like it, well we've not tried hard
enough.
Maybe I read a bit too much emphasis into your comments, but if you find
the component palette too hard to navigate, re-organising it to suit
your preferences is the way to go, not advocating ways of working that
involve more work and more risk.
My brief experience with BDS2006 (the trial was not sufficient to tempt
me into spending my money on it) and contributions from others suggests
that the palette does not work as well "out of the box" as it used to,
and that it is not sufficiently configurable for people to get it to fit
their needs/way of working.
Could be wrong of course, and would love to be.
:)
> The only
> thing I can make from your comment is that you never attempt to make use of
> new IDE functionality.
Then you'd be wrong.
> Do you use code templates?
I did once upon a time.
My first doubts on these arose the first time I found myself working on
a machine that didn't have the templates I was used to on it. I found
myself having to work harder to stop myself trying to use things that
weren't there than I would have been if I hadn't bothered trying to use
them in the first place.
Similar experiences arise when working on someone elses workstation who
has configured an ever so slightly different template for the same
shortcut.
The crunch came when even on my own system, a crash necessitating a re-
install resulted in my losing my templates. I couldn't be bothered
setting them up again and decided I was better off not learning to rely
on them.
Maybe I should have had them backed up. In fact, I absolutely should
have done. But by this point I was using them so little that I wouldn't
have bothered restoring them from a backup anyway.
Maybe I'm an exceptionally fast typist, but I don't think so. Never-
the-less, I find more often than not that I have to slow my typing down
so my brain can keep up with my fingers - needing to get more code into
the editor at a faster rate is generally not that big a problem for me.
> Code Completion?
When it works.
It usually starts off really well, but soon deterioriates once you have
a unit with any significant content. Adding a new procedure etc then
involves a decision:
Do I save myself some typing but then spend some time moving the
generated code into the place where I actually want it rather than where
the IDE has decided to plonk it, or do I just take a few seconds to type
that little bit of skeleton code in the right place for myself?
Of course, if you only ever use the code tree to navigate your code you
can let the IDE mix your code up as chaotically as it likes.
Weird thing is, I tend to edit code using my keyboard, much like I tend
to design forms using my mouse.
;)
An IDE that makes it easier to use my keyboard to design a form and a
mouse to navigate my code has got things just a little bit mixed up if
you ask me.
> Refactoring?
Refactoring? Yes.
Automated refactoring? No.
I put this in the same bucket as many other labour saving devices for
developers. All too often what looks like a nice idea for a neat bit of
refactoring turns out not to be appropriate at all.
Putting a refactoring tool at the fingertips of a lazy developer is
asking for trouble.
Not being lazy myself, I don't actually mind being required to go
through the steps of applying a refactoring myself as it then also
involves thinking it through.
It has saved many a blunder in the past.
--
Jolyon Smith
Jolyon Smith
bmc...@glooscap.com says...
> Jolyon Smith wrote:
>
> > No, I'm sorry this is just idiotic.
> >
> > You are saying that the IDE should dictate the way we work rather
> > than support the way we work.
>
> I read it as more of a suggestion to learn the features of your IDE.
> Chances are you'll find some of them useful.
General case: Yes
Specific case: Using a keyboard shortcut to navigate an IDE element
involved in a mouse centred activity?
Bottom line - the original post from me on this was in response to
someone suggesting that the keyboard shortcut approach was less 'work'
and that the keyboard shortcut alternative involved less to-ing and fro-
ing between mouse and keyboard.
It quite simply isn't and can't, even if we can dream up a scenario
where it might be preferable. In 99.99% of real-world scenarios a
visual design palette designed to be most effective when driven by a
mouse is going to be more productive than one which requires keyboard
shortcuts to address shortcomings in mouse based navigation/use.
</end>
--
Jolyon Smith
Bruce McGee
> Bottom line - the original post from me on this was in response to
> someone suggesting that the keyboard shortcut approach was less
> 'work' and that the keyboard shortcut alternative involved less
> to-ing and fro- ing between mouse and keyboard.
You aren't describing 99.9% of my real-world scenarios.
I like using the keyboard with the new component palette. I have ever
since I saw John Kaster using it this way at some demo. Even if I use
the mouse to line up components afterward (much nicer with the snap
lines), I still find the whole process much smoother. Especially when
I don't have a regular mouse available.
If you don't agree, then that's fine. I suspect it's because you
haven't really tried it, but notice how I'm *not* calling your opinion
"idiotic".
Don Strenczewilk
:) There are lots of reasons why I don't do a major overhaul on that app.
It's very fragile; it works and the users love it; it's inherited 2 levels
deep and another form inherits it; I have a lot of other new stuff and
maintenance to do; I'm the sole developer here; I like puzzles. It's only
one form in an MDI app with about 50 forms, and there are 3 other forms that
are at least as fu^H^H complicated as that one.
Anyhow, it looks like the either a lot of components used on a form OR the
number of components installed would surface the problem that Hot Fix 5
fixed. Nice!
"tony caduto" <to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:448cdb4c$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Don Strenczewilk
the 'Text1' out of the edit box, line them up, then copy/paste the aligned
pair 7 times?
"Wayne Niddery [TeamB]" <wnid...@chaffaci.on.ca> wrote in message
news:448c94fe$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Bryce K. Nielsen
> 2) Type "but"
> 3) The only item listed is TButton
> 4) Click it + use it
>
> *Much* faster!
I *would* be much faster if typing "but" would bring up TButton, TDBButton,
TcxButton, etc. I really wish they would have added wildcard searching in
that bar, but as it is now, if all I know is it's a "button" and in some 3rd
party library, I find it taking _more_ time to find in the ToolBox than in
the Component Palette (maybe cause the sections aren't collapsed by
default?).
I have 2 major complaints about the new palette:
- Realestate, it takes up a LOT more room than the Component Palette did.
- Behavior, it "jumps" around way too much trying to be "intelligent" and I
*hate* when the computer tries to think for me...
-BKN
Bryce K. Nielsen
> The search is very handy, but I was thinking about the IDE layout
> I mean Component Palette placed as it was in Delphi 7.
> I don't think there is anything that makes it impossible to
> add search (and other functionality enhancements) keeping
> old palette layout - at least as an option.
>
Agreed. I *hate* the amount of realestate the new ToolBox(?) takes, and I
really hate how it makes Delphi feel like a VS "me too" app. I never had a
problem with the Component Palette, especially after D5 where you could push
all the speed buttons on the same level as the Menu system, and so have the
Palette stretch across the whole top of the screen. I never had a problem
with a Palette "too large", even with tons of 3rd party components
installed, since I took the time to organize my Palette. Whenever a fellow
Delphi developer complained about that, they usually left it as installed
and so you'd see tons of Tabs with only one or two components on them,
wasting a lot of space.
Bring back the old Component Palette (at least as an option). Adding a
Search feature is fine, but I want my realestate back!
-BKN
Bryce K. Nielsen
> hunting if you have a large screen and GExperts. Every tab is always at
> the same place. Plus I have "Show Tabs as (flat) buttons" enabled. So
> there is no more cofusing jumping of rows.
>
The key to that statement: "Every tab is always at the same place." I can't
tell you how annoying it is to see the new palette jump around trying to be
"contextual"...
-BKN
Bryce K. Nielsen
> doesn't lend itself to be put on a auto-hide panel. It would have to be
> docked horizontally, and there isn't space for that at the top of the IDE,
> so it would have to be docked to the bottom. Wouldn't look right.
The beauty of having a *configurable* IDE is that you can appease most
people. I for one *hate* the Auto-Hide panels, they're tool slow to be
productive and often times get accidentally called and break my train of
thought. So my D2006 is in the classic, undocked layout, nothing
auto-hidden. There's *plenty* of space across the top, in fact I find my top
bar very empty and feel it's a waste of space.
The great thing about this being an option is that for those who like it
(i.e. me) can configure it that way and don't have to conform to the VS way
of doing things.
-BKN
Bryce K. Nielsen
> installed and a large screen. Even better, if you select "Show tabs as
> flat buttons" all tabs are always at the same location. No more weird
> tab jumping like there is in the D7 without GExperts or in D10 where
> groups move up or down depending on the ones that are open.
>
I also would say that I never had a problem with my Component Palette since
I took the time to organize it.
> GUI elements that often change locations are very unproductive.
>
Second that!
-BKN
Bryce K. Nielsen
For _you_. That doesn't mean for everyone. The beauty of making this an
option is we can have our cake and eat it too. Obviously the new palette is
great for some people, and obviously it's rather annoying for others. Making
this an IDE option would satisfy both crowds.
-BKN
Bryce K. Nielsen
> instead of horizontal, so you will be able to see more categories before
> needing to scroll. Only one category is visible at a time. Click Standard.
> Click TButton. Drop on form. The way you like.
>
I actually tried doing that in D2005 but ended up not liking it due to the
extra realestate it takes up (I used small buttons even) and reverted back
to the "default" usage. I really like the crispness of the old Palette and
think it's a great idea to have it as an option. Maybe someone could create
an Expert for this?
-BKN
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>>
>> I have no idea how you reach that conclusion from my suggestion.
>
> <quote>
> *because* of the ability
> to use the tool palette that way, it is probably worth trying to do
> so.
>
> For me it's just a matter of not having worked that
> way previously, but I'm going to make a point of trying it.
> </quote>
>
> i.e. if the IDE decides this is the way we should work, then this is
> the way we should work, and if we don't like it, well we've not tried
> hard enough.
?? I still can't see how you got from there to here. Seriously, this is
*way* off base.
> Maybe I read a bit too much emphasis into your comments,
Maybe?? Sheesh!
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"Democracy, without the guarantee of liberty, is merely a method of
selecting tyrants." - Alan Nitikman
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
> Wouldn't it be faster to drop a label and an edit control on a form,
> clear the 'Text1' out of the edit box, line them up, then copy/paste
> the aligned pair 7 times?
Likely - and how do you most efficiently use copy/paste, mouse or keyboard?
<g>
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"Nurture your mind with great thoughts. To believe in the heroic makes
heroes." — Benjamin Disraeli
Bryce K. Nielsen
> keyboard? <g>
>
You'd be surprised at how many *developers* I find using the
right-click|copy, right-click|paste features (as opposed to using the
control key). I would have thought that maybe an average user would
right-click a lot, but I see more and more developers doing it. I thought
ctrl+c is faster, and for me it is, but apparently not for everyone.
This is why a highly configurable IDE is the best possible outcome, allowing
_everyone_ to have it their way...
-BKN
Don Strenczewilk
The tab order's set too if you do them in order.
I'm pretty much accustomed to the new component pallete, btw. If there's
something I'd like to see changed it's when clicking on the category button,
it only shows 9 categories. The listbox should be expanded so I don't have
to scroll. Also, the listbox doesn't respond to keystrokes. i.e. typing 'R'
while focused in that list box doesn't take you to the 'Raize' categories,
it closes the listbox and focuses on a TRadioButton.
"Wayne Niddery [TeamB]" <wnid...@chaffaci.on.ca> wrote in message
news:448d97f6$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Jolyon Smith
says...
> Don Strenczewilk wrote:
> > Wouldn't it be faster to drop a label and an edit control on a form,
> > clear the 'Text1' out of the edit box, line them up, then copy/paste
> > the aligned pair 7 times?
>
> Likely - and how do you most efficiently use copy/paste, mouse or keyboard?
> <g>
In many visual tools, ctrl+drag = copy. Not in the Delphi form designer
though.
:(
Straw poll: Ctrl+C/X/V or Ctrl+Ins/Shift+Del/Shift+Ins ?
I find that on a full keybord, since the Ins/Del keys are conveniently
and unambiguously located above my cursor block, these are more reliably
and faster found using finger memory than the C/X/V block (which unless
you are a contortionist also involves moving hands further away from the
normal typing position)
But it is a constant source of surprise for me how few people know about
the Ins/Del key combos.
--
Jolyon Smith
Jolyon Smith
bmc...@glooscap.com says...
> Jolyon Smith wrote:
>
> > Bottom line - the original post from me on this was in response to
> > someone suggesting that the keyboard shortcut approach was less
> > 'work' and that the keyboard shortcut alternative involved less
> > to-ing and fro- ing between mouse and keyboard.
>
> You aren't describing 99.9% of my real-world scenarios.
Correct - I'm not describing your scenario at all. I'm not describing
anyone's scenario. I'm stating a point-simple truth:
If I do something entirely with a mouse, this cannot involve more
keyboard work and to-ing and fro-ing between keyboard and mouse than
something which involves mouse AND KEYBOARD.
> but notice how I'm *not* calling your opinion
> "idiotic".
Yes you are, you're just trying to make it look like you're not. At
least I apologised as part of honestly expressing my opinion.
;)
--
Jolyon Smith
Liz
> But it is a constant source of surprise for me how few people know
> about the Ins/Del key combos.
Actually its scary how so many people have no idea of key combos, even
when they are listed on the menu they click on!
things like : ctrl+f4 to close an MDI window, ctrl+tab goes round MDI
windows, F10 for menu, alt+space for system menu.. windows E for
explorer, windows D for desktop, ctrl+esc for start menu.. and
countless more!
--
Liz the Brit
Delphi things I have released: http://www.xcalibur.co.uk/DelphiThings
Jolyon Smith
says...
Options? You clearly haven't tried hard enough to get used to the way
the IDE thinks you should be working.
You just have to try it and get used to it - or so I am reliably
informed.
;)
--
Jolyon Smith
Bryce K. Nielsen
> informed.
>
And continue to hate it while you use it, and so once something better is
offered up, you jump ship. At least, that's how VB was for me.
All that's being suggested here is to have a configurable feature so that
those who find themselves more productive with option B can have option B...
-BKNs
Ralf Mimoun
...
> Straw poll: Ctrl+C/X/V or Ctrl+Ins/Shift+Del/Shift+Ins ?
Ctrl+[character]
> I find that on a full keybord, since the Ins/Del keys are conveniently
> and unambiguously located above my cursor block, these are more
> reliably and faster found using finger memory than the C/X/V block
> (which unless you are a contortionist also involves moving hands
> further away from the normal typing position)
I only need my left hand for Ctrl-C/X/V. Means that my right hand remains on
the mouse. Strange, this is the first time I see how much I am grown into my
keyboard. Coding since '84 or so leave you with some scars, it seems.
Ralf
Jolyon Smith
says...
> > You just have to try it and get used to it - or so I am reliably
> > informed.
> >
>
> And continue to hate it while you use it, and so once something better is
> offered up, you jump ship. At least, that's how VB was for me.
Well, I should perhaps have used a <sarcasm/> tag.
> All that's being suggested here is to have a configurable feature so that
> those who find themselves more productive with option B can have option B...
There are some who seem to think that you are just too stuck in your
ways if you can't get used to Option A. I'm not one, btw - I think that
BDS 2006 has tossed the TBaby out with the EBathWater in many of the IDE
change decisions.
:(
--
Jolyon Smith
Bryce K. Nielsen
> change decisions.
>
That's funny.
My biggest gripe is the "me too" feel it has when compared with VS. Also, I
miss a lot of features that made me incredibly productive, particularly a
good undocked/floating IDE (I know you can change that, but there are odd
behaviors that make me less productive).
-BKN
Bruce McGee
> Correct - I'm not describing your scenario at all. I'm not
> describing anyone's scenario. I'm stating a point-simple truth:
>
> If I do something entirely with a mouse, this cannot involve more
> keyboard work and to-ing and fro-ing between keyboard and mouse than
> something which involves mouse AND KEYBOARD.
laptop.
> Yes you are, you're just trying to make it look like you're not. At
> least I apologised as part of honestly expressing my opinion.
I really wasn't.
However, insisting that only you can be right is right up there.
Jolyon Smith
bmc...@glooscap.com says...
> Jolyon Smith wrote:
>
> > Correct - I'm not describing your scenario at all. I'm not
> > describing anyone's scenario. I'm stating a point-simple truth:
> >
> > If I do something entirely with a mouse, this cannot involve more
> > keyboard work and to-ing and fro-ing between keyboard and mouse than
> > something which involves mouse AND KEYBOARD.
>
> laptop.
? Relevance ? Laptops have mouse input devices do they not? If you
choose not to use it that's up to you. I am describing the situation
where a mouse IS present and IS being used.
More to the point, I was simply pointing out that given scenario 'A':
MOUSE ONLY vs Scenario 'B': MOUSE + KEYBOARD there CANNOT be more
mouse/keyboard switching in Scenario 'A' because in point of fact there
IS NO KEYBOARD INVOLVED.
Maybe you have a different Scenario, or choose only to indulge in
Scenario 'B'. Fine, that's you're prerogative. And if you want me to
accept that I am wrong, fine, I'll do that too.
I'm wrong.
There. Ok?
Anything else while we're at it? Maybe you'd like me to change my view
on the outcome of 2 + 2? Or perhaps you would like me to publicly
accept that night does not necessarily follow day?
</end>
--
Jolyon Smith
Kyle A. Miller
> to the "default" usage. I really like the crispness of the old Palette and
> think it's a great idea to have it as an option. Maybe someone could create
> an Expert for this?
I found the old palette not very useful. Once CompBar was installed, I
would hide the palette and never look at it again. BDS' is almost as
good as CompBar. It's getting there.
Bruce McGee
> I really wish they would have added
> wildcard searching in that bar
Agreed.
Bruce McGee
> > laptop.
>
> ? Relevance ?
The built in pointing devices are more awkward (to me) than using a
regular mouse, so I get better speed if I can use the keyboard instead.
Especially when it isn't always practical to use a mouse, like an
airplane.
And I still try to use the keyboard where it makes sense even when I do
have a mouse available.
> Anything else while we're at it?
Take any view you like, but you don't speak for me. No sense getting
all wound up about it.
Jolyon Smith
bmc...@glooscap.com says...
> Jolyon Smith wrote:
>
> > > laptop.
> >
> > ? Relevance ?
>
> The built in pointing devices are more awkward (to me) than using a
> regular mouse, so I get better speed if I can use the keyboard instead.
> Especially when it isn't always practical to use a mouse, like an
> airplane.
A nice selective snip - your point was irrelevant because it did not
relate to the point being made.
"Salted peanuts are saltier than unsalted peanuts"
"Why do you have to insist you are right? - I think popcorn tastes more
buttery."
> No sense getting
> all wound up about it.
Take that issue up with those who decided to take me to task for
pointing out the blindingly and stupefyingly obvious and after turning
things completely around try to make ME out as the awkward one!
<//end>
--
Jolyon Smith
Chee Wee Chua (Borland Support)
> I don't know ANYONE who can hit Ctrl+Alt+P without taking their hand
> off the mouse. (Ok, there are exceptions: Left-handers who use the
> mouse in their left hand would be OK).
Dvorak keyboard. Ctrl+Alt+P on Dvorak is Ctrl+Alt+R. ;o)
So, that rules out anyone you know as Dvorak keyboard layout users. ;o)
Bruce McGee
component palette (and in other places) is faster for me than just
using the mouse. It isn't any more complicated than that. Oh, and I
really don't like the "classic" palette from D1-D7.
You can disagree (which is fine), but my second point was that you're
only speaking for yourself. You seemed to be speaking for everyone.
You have to expect to be challenged on things like that.
Don Strenczewilk
left hand and drag into position with the mouse (trackball actually) with
the right hand. Takes practically no time at all.
I've grown very much accustomed to WordStar and TP keyboard commands. The
only thing I don't like is the Ctrl-C/X/V which are page down, cursor down,
and insert mode. Copy/Cut/Paste are more convenient for me than
Ctrl+Ins/Shift+Del/Shift+Ins because they can be done with the left hand.
I'm sure you realize that the old PCs didn't have mice and the keyboards
didn't have cursor keys or numpads. My most used WS/TP commands used to be
Ctrl-Z/Ctrl-W, which I would constantly use to scroll the screen up/down
without moving the cursor. Don't know how much %$#^$ text I've lost holding
down Ctrl-Z in Notepad. I've got those keys configured 'correctly' in
Slickedit. Wish I could do the same in Delphi's editor. IDE Classic mode
does Ctrl-Z/W 'correctly' but Ctrl-C/X/Z are wrong. The reverse is true for
Default Keymapping.
"Jolyon Smith" <jol...@softtech.co.newzealand> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ef89a674...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>> Don Strenczewilk wrote:
>> > Wouldn't it be faster to drop a label and an edit control on a form,
>> > clear the 'Text1' out of the edit box, line them up, then copy/paste
>> > the aligned pair 7 times?
>>
Don Strenczewilk
Classic mode, but there is apparently no key combo to do that in 'Default
keypmapping' mode.
"Liz" <liz_want...@xcalibur.nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xn0eneetf...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Kristofer Skaug
> No! No! No! Please - no! The last thing I need is a constantly
> changing development environment.
This is my main problem with the hotfix thing, the number of possible
installation/patch statuses of an IDE is just growing exponentially, and you
get the extra burden of maintaining an original environment (VMware anyone)
used to build each release, multiplied with evolving third party components
etc.
> I've already got too many applications interrupting my train
> of thought telling me that they need updating.
McAfee AntiVirus has the most infuriating notification message of all, even
though the auto-update itself takes place silently, it then proudly boasts
the completion of the installation with a pop-up, carrying the kindly option
to "Let me continue what I was doing"...! Aaaarrrrghhh....
--
Kristofer
Bryce K. Nielsen
> only speaking for yourself. You seemed to be speaking for everyone.
> You have to expect to be challenged on things like that.
>
Not reading the rest of the thread? There are a few of us who've suggested
that BDS should offer as an option the old Component Palette (with the new
searching feature) and feel the new one is a step backwards (sans searching
feature)...
-BKN
Bryce K. Nielsen
> the left hand and drag into position with the mouse (trackball actually)
> with the right hand. Takes practically no time at all.
>
And in that case, I'd probably not use the mouse at all and just
Ctrl+Shift+Arrow them into place ;-)
-BKN