USS

Ted MacNEIL

unread,

Nov 16, 2011, 9:48:00 PM11/16/11

to

Can't anybody give this a rest?
What is 'official' when it's in redbooks, some manuals and presentations?
IBM has been using it for UNIX System Services since they dropped O/MVS!

Too many people have not got the weight of the world on their shoulders!

It's not the only multi-meaning acronym!

-
Ted MacNEIL
eama...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to list...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
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Ed Gould

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Nov 16, 2011, 9:55:19 PM11/16/11

to

Ted,

Shhh the acronym causes certain people to become rabid.

Ed

Ken Brick

unread,

Nov 16, 2011, 10:46:56 PM11/16/11

to

Folks,

If people folllowed the principles used in academia et al, as I
understand them, the first usage of a term is spelt out in full
followed by in brackets the acromyn or abbreviation that will be used
through the paper.

For example Unix System Services (USS)
United States Ship (USS)

Then no one has a valid cause of complaint

Ken

Elardus Engelbrecht

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Nov 17, 2011, 3:05:20 AM11/17/11

to

Ted MacNEIL wrote:

>Can't anybody give this a rest?

No, :-D That TLA is so dirty, messy, filthy, etc. that bored people need to raise it, polish it up and again... :-D

You just started another (U)gly (S)hort (S)kirmish! :-D

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

Joke of the day:

Two cannibals are eating their lunch.

"I don't like your mother-in-law, yuck, she was ugly, but she is now tasteless!"

"Shut up and eat your spinach!"

Steve Comstock

unread,

Nov 17, 2011, 5:20:57 PM11/17/11

to

On 11/16/2011 8:43 PM, Ken Brick wrote:
> Folks,
>
> If people folllowed the principles used in academia et al, as I understand them,
> the first usage of a term is spelt out in full followed by in brackets the
> acromyn or abbreviation that will be used through the paper.
>
> For example Unix System Services (USS)
> United States Ship (USS)
>
> Then no one has a valid cause of complaint
>
> Ken

Brackets? Oh, you mean parentheses: ( )
Brackets are: [ ] (not "square brackets", just "brackets")
Braces are: { } (not "curly braces", just "braces")

Oh, wait. It's not Friday yet. Sorry. ;-)

--

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment!
+ Training your people is an excellent investment

* Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment
for training dollars at
http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html

Ted MacNEIL

unread,

Nov 17, 2011, 5:38:45 PM11/17/11

to

>Brackets? Oh, you mean parentheses: ( )
>Brackets are: [ ] (not "square brackets", just "brackets")
>Braces are: { } (not "curly braces", just "braces")

Another common use for obscure terms.

When I was in high school English brackets was an acceptable term.
When I took FORTRAN brackets was an acceptable term.
When I took C square brackets and curly (brackets or braces) were acceptable terms.
My profs used them.
Why, after almost 40 years, why do we have more retroactve corrections?

Like that other TLA, that shall remain nameless, even though it was used for almost 15 years before some self-appointed pedants started taking upon themselves to preach.

-
Ted MacNEIL
eama...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

Graham Hobbs

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Nov 17, 2011, 9:33:16 PM11/17/11

to

What's a TLA?

Ted MacNEIL

unread,

Nov 17, 2011, 9:59:40 PM11/17/11

to

Three letter an anacronym

-
Ted MacNEIL
eama...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

Pinnacle

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 1:42:37 AM11/18/11

to

Jane, stop this crazy thing! Jaaaaaaaannnnneeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chase, John

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 8:24:34 AM11/18/11

to

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Graham Hobbs
>
> What's a TLA?

In the context below, "TLA" is "Three Letter Acronym".

-jc-

> ----- Original Message -----
> [ snip ]

> > >Brackets? Oh, you mean parentheses: ( )
> >>Brackets are: [ ] (not "square brackets", just "brackets")
> >>Braces are: { } (not "curly braces", just "braces")
> >
> > Another common use for obscure terms.
> >
> > When I was in high school English brackets was an acceptable term.
> > When I took FORTRAN brackets was an acceptable term.
> > When I took C square brackets and curly (brackets or braces) were
> > acceptable terms.
> > My profs used them.
> > Why, after almost 40 years, why do we have more retroactve
corrections?
> >
> > Like that other TLA, that shall remain nameless, even though it was
used
> > for almost 15 years before some self-appointed pedants started
taking upon
> > themselves to preach.
> > -

McKown, John

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 9:05:41 AM11/18/11

to

Since it is now Friday, how about

/ is a solidus, aka a slash
\ is a reverse solidus, aka a backslash
# is an octhothrope, aka a hash mark or pound sign. Not to be confused with "pound sterling" sign.
! is a "bang" - I learned that long ago in college on a Xerox Sigma 7 system.
#! is normally pronounced "shebang" in UNIX. I guess a verbal slurring of "hash bang" together.

When speaking, I often say "square bracket" and "curly brace" (open or close) just because people often don't know a brace from a bracket from a parenthesis. And let's not even talk about carets ^. And what is the proper word for that PL/1 "not" sign ¬ ?

I never heard of "broken brackets" for < and >. Just "less than" and "greater than".

--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone .
john....@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List

John Gilmore

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Nov 18, 2011, 9:18:29 AM11/18/11

to

John McKown writes:

| I never heard of "broken brackets" for < and >. Just "less than" and
"greater than".

Context is all! In such notation as

<decimal digit> ::= 0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9

'<' and '>' are often called broken brackets. The ALGOL definition
document, for example, uses this term, as do many descriptions of BNF.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

Bernd Oppolzer

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Nov 18, 2011, 9:26:01 AM11/18/11

to

I never knew how to call this sign correctly: &

in Germany, it's simply called: "und" (that's: and)
or "Kaufmanns und", that is, merchant's and.

Almost nobody here knows what an ampersand is.

But some day one of my co-workers called it "Brezel" -
you know, what a brezel is? Look here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brezel

This is very descriptive, IMO, so I now prefer to call it brezel,
which is kind of accepted in the community here :-)

Have a nice weekend,
regards

Bernd

Ken Hume IBM

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Nov 18, 2011, 10:01:14 AM11/18/11

to

We always called the * a "splat".

Ken Hume
IBM PD Tools Client Advocate
(720)396-7776
kph...@us.ibm.com

zMan

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Nov 18, 2011, 10:01:52 AM11/18/11

to

Since the point of this thread is pedantry, that's "octothorpe", and "PL/I".

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:02 AM, McKown, John
<John....@healthmarkets.com> wrote:
> Since it is now Friday, how about
>
> / is a solidus, aka a slash
> \ is a reverse solidus, aka a backslash
> # is an octhothrope, aka a hash mark or pound sign. Not to be confused with "pound sterling" sign.
> ! is a "bang" - I learned that long ago in college on a Xerox Sigma 7 system.
> #! is normally pronounced "shebang" in UNIX. I guess a verbal slurring of "hash bang" together.

--
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

John Gilmore

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 10:02:35 AM11/18/11

to

John Chase wrote:

| In the context below, "TLA" is "Three Letter Acronym".

and that is certainly true in the context that follows.

The acronym---I very much like but will not repeat the nonce word
"anacronym', an anachronistic acronym?---TLA itself does, however,
have the defect that it is also used as an acronym for Two-Letter
Acronym, as in UK for United Kingdom or US for United States. Then,
at the outer edge of usefulness, it can also stand for Ten-Letter
Acronym, as in YMMVALITUS for Your Mileage May Vary At Least In The
United States. (Twenty- and Thirty-Letter Acronyms need not, I think,
detain us here. They are too hard to remember.)

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

Chase, John

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 10:11:19 AM11/18/11

to

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of McKown, John
>
> Since it is now Friday, how about
>
> / is a solidus, aka a slash
> \ is a reverse solidus, aka a backslash
> # is an octhothrope, aka a hash mark or pound sign. Not to be confused with "pound sterling" sign.
> ! is a "bang" - I learned that long ago in college on a Xerox Sigma 7 system.
> #! is normally pronounced "shebang" in UNIX. I guess a verbal slurring of "hash bang" together.
>
> When speaking, I often say "square bracket" and "curly brace" (open or close) just because people
> often don't know a brace from a bracket from a parenthesis. And let's not even talk about carets ^.
> And what is the proper word for that PL/1 "not" sign ¬ ?
>
> I never heard of "broken brackets" for < and >. Just "less than" and "greater than".

In the context of containers, I've always known them as "angle brackets".

-jc-

Hillock, Timothy

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 10:20:05 AM11/18/11

to

USS - United Star Ship

"I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

TImOTHY Hillock
EC/EDI PROGRAMMER/ANALYST
Electronic Gateway Services (Tax ESD)

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ken Brick
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:43 PM
To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: USS

Chase, John

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 10:23:19 AM11/18/11

to

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bernd Oppolzer
>
> I never knew how to call this sign correctly: &
>
> in Germany, it's simply called: "und" (that's: and) or "Kaufmanns
und", that is, merchant's and.
>
> Almost nobody here knows what an ampersand is.
>
> But some day one of my co-workers called it "Brezel" - you know, what
a brezel is? Look here:
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brezel

In English we spell it "pretzel". Frequently served with beer (bier?).

The ampersand rather closely resembles a pretzel (brezel). :-)

-jc-

John Gilmore

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 11:09:08 AM11/18/11

to

This 'Shebang'---There is of course another one--- is not just a
verbal slurring of 'Hash Bang'. It has a much more elegant name. It
is a conflation.

Consider, just in English, to which they are not confined,

o Edmund Spenser: wrizzled (wrinkled + frizzled)

o Shakespeare: glaze (glare + gaze)

o· Lewis Carroll: slithy (slimy, lithe), chortle (chuckle, snort),
snark (snake, shark), galumph (gallop, triumph)

They have a long, much (even too much) discussed literary history
under this rubric, and Carroll talks about them repeatedly in his
letters to Ellen Terry.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

Ian

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 11:58:35 AM11/18/11

to

>John McKown writes:
>
>I never heard of "broken brackets" for < and >. Just "less than" and "greater than".

You probably never heard of "Left Banana" , "Right Banana" for "(" and ")" then? :-)

Mike X, a great dba and all around great guy I worked with many years ago used to use those terms for ().

"scootchie left" and "scootchie right" was his chosen terms for getting you to move the cursor.

Ian.
http://www.cicsworld.com

Ian

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 12:16:18 PM11/18/11

to

Seeing that it is Friday, we can put the issue to vote and let the democratic process decide for us?

Cast vote here : http://cicsworld.com/node/3827

Ian

> Folks,
>
> If people folllowed the principles used in academia et al, as I
> understand them, the first usage of a term is spelt out in full
> followed by in brackets the acromyn or abbreviation that will be used
> through the paper.
>
> For example Unix System Services (USS)
> United States Ship (USS)
>
> Then no one has a valid cause of complaint
>
> Ken

McKown, John

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 12:17:11 PM11/18/11

to

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List

> [mailto:IBM-...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ian
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 10:51 AM
> To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Terminology RE: USS
>
> >John McKown writes:
> >
> >I never heard of "broken brackets" for < and >. Just "less
> than" and "greater than".
>
>
> You probably never heard of "Left Banana" , "Right Banana"
> for "(" and ")" then? :-)
>
> Mike X, a great dba and all around great guy I worked with
> many years ago used to use those terms for ().
>
> "scootchie left" and "scootchie right" was his chosen terms
> for getting you to move the cursor.
>
>
> Ian.
> http://www.cicsworld.com

No, I hadn't. But I __like__ it. Formal adoption in progress!

--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone *
john....@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

Bill Fairchild

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Nov 18, 2011, 12:25:38 PM11/18/11

to

Perhaps Ted MacNEIL knows more Greek than we suppose, and he was subtly implying that TLA is an "un-acronym, or a "NOT-acronym", since that is what the Greek prefix "an-" means. Or maybe he meant that TLA's antecedent TLA, which shall remain unspecified, is not an acronym any more. Since most any given phrase can be acronymed, then, in fairness, any given acronym could be unacronymed if it becomes too controversial.

Bill Fairchild

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of John Gilmore
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 9:00 AM
To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu

Steve Comstock

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Nov 18, 2011, 12:29:13 PM11/18/11

to

On 11/18/2011 10:04 AM, Ian wrote:
> Seeing that it is Friday, we can put the issue to vote and let the democratic process decide for us?
>
> Cast vote here : http://cicsworld.com/node/3827

Ah. The tyranny of the majority? You know, 50,000,000 Frenchmen
(or any other nationality or group) _can_ be wrong.

>
> Ian
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> If people folllowed the principles used in academia et al, as I
>> understand them, the first usage of a term is spelt out in full
>> followed by in brackets the acromyn or abbreviation that will be used
>> through the paper.
>>
>> For example Unix System Services (USS)
>> United States Ship (USS)
>>
>> Then no one has a valid cause of complaint
>>
>> Ken
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to list...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
>

--

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-355-2752

http://www.trainersfriend.com

* To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment!
+ Training your people is an excellent investment

* Try our tool for calculating your Return On Investment

for training dollars at
http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html

Bill Fairchild

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Nov 18, 2011, 1:11:23 PM11/18/11

to

How about one billion people who all profess the same religious belief system?

Bill Fairchild

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 11:26 AM
To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: USS

Ah. The tyranny of the majority? You know, 50,000,000 Frenchmen (or any other nationality or group) _can_ be wrong.

Ken Brick

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 4:50:24 PM11/18/11

to

On 19/11/2011 05:05 AM, Bill Fairchild wrote:
> How about one billion people who all profess the same religious belief system?
> Bill Fairchild

Find me 1 billion people with the same religious belief

Ken

Paul Gilmartin

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 5:08:27 PM11/18/11

to

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:47:23 +1100, Ken Brick wrote:
>
>Find me 1 billion people with the same religious belief
>

FSVO "same":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Christianity, Islam, perhaps Buddhism, Hinduism.

Don't argue; they aren't allowed to put it on the Internet if it's
not true.

-- gil

Ted MacNEIL

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 5:10:07 PM11/18/11

to

I picked the obvious answer: I DON'T CARE!
What I care about is the waste of time carping about it!

-
Ted MacNEIL
eama...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Comstock <st...@TRAINERSFRIEND.COM>
Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-...@bama.ua.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:26:06
To: <IBM-...@bama.ua.edu>
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-...@bama.ua.edu>
Subject: Re: USS

Ed Finnell

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Nov 18, 2011, 5:11:27 PM11/18/11

to

kbr...@NETSPACE.NET.AU writes:

Find me 1 billion people with the same religious belief

Mike Schwab

unread,

Nov 18, 2011, 5:18:56 PM11/18/11

to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups
2 Billion Christians,
1.5 Billion Muslims,
1 Billion Hindus,
0.5 Billion Buddists,
0.5 Billion Chinese Folk religions,
0.5 Billion other Folk religions,
0.050 Billion Shinto,
0.025 Billion Sikhs,
0.015 Billion Jews,
0.011 Billion Jains,
Several others under 0.010 Billion.

Oddities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement about 700,000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastafarianism maybe 10,000.

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Ken Brick <kbr...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
> On 19/11/2011 05:05 AM, Bill Fairchild wrote:
>>
>> How about one billion people who all profess the same religious belief
>> system?
>> Bill Fairchild
>
> Find me 1 billion people with the same religious belief
>
> Ken
--

Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

Bill Fairchild

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Nov 18, 2011, 5:29:48 PM11/18/11

to

Don't forget Frisbeetarianism.

Bill Fairchild

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Mike Schwab
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:13 PM
To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: USS

Ken Brick

unread,

Nov 19, 2011, 5:15:33 AM11/19/11

to

On 19/11/2011 09:12 AM, Mike Schwab wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups
> 2 Billion Christians,
> 1.5 Billion Muslims,
> 1 Billion Hindus,
> 0.5 Billion Buddists,
> 0.5 Billion Chinese Folk religions,
> 0.5 Billion other Folk religions,
> 0.050 Billion Shinto,
> 0.025 Billion Sikhs,
> 0.015 Billion Jews,
> 0.011 Billion Jains,
> Several others under 0.010 Billion.
>
> Oddities:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement about 700,000
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastafarianism maybe 10,000.

>> Neither the 2 billion christians, (consider the Inquistation, the
>> Roman vs Protestant in Ireland), nor 1.5 billion muslims (Sunni vs
>> Shia) can be considered homogenous religous groupings .

As I''ve probably offended many I will make the following comment.

If you consider the 2 billion christians et al to be one grouping then
in some lights you should aggregrate the various monotheistic christian,
muslim and jewish sects into the same religion as basically the follow
the same god.

Ken

Mike Schwab

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Nov 19, 2011, 7:32:07 AM11/19/11

to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

Yep. I always like the scene in The Shoes of The Fisherman where
Anthony Quinn playing the recently elected but unrecognized pope
starts performing the Catholic last rites then switches to the Jewish
version.

--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

Paul Gilmartin

unread,

Nov 19, 2011, 9:45:00 AM11/19/11

to

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 06:22:33 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote:
> ...

>Yep. I always like the scene in The Shoes of The Fisherman where
>Anthony Quinn playing the recently elected but unrecognized pope
>starts performing the Catholic last rites then switches to the Jewish
>version.
>

Daaarrrennn!

-- gil

Darren Evans-Young

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Nov 19, 2011, 11:24:06 AM11/19/11

to

Ok, kill this thread now!

I'm going to start setting folks to NOPOST status.

Darren

Mike Liberatore

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Nov 19, 2011, 1:19:08 PM11/19/11

to

Thank you!!!

------Original Message------
From: Darren Evans-Young
Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.

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Nov 19, 2011, 6:27:42 PM11/19/11

to

In
<1839031969-1321497845-cardhu_decombob...@b11.c1.bise6.blackberry>,
on 11/17/2011
at 02:44 AM, Ted MacNEIL <eama...@YAHOO.CA> said:

>Can't anybody give this a rest?

Physician, heal thyself!

>What is 'official'

John is official enough for me; he's certainly a more reliable source
than you.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.

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Nov 19, 2011, 6:30:26 PM11/19/11

to

In <1321498401.83371...@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, on
11/16/2011
at 06:53 PM, Ed Gould <ps2...@YAHOO.COM> said:

>Shhh the acronym causes certain people to become rabid.

Ted being one of them.

Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.

unread,

Nov 19, 2011, 8:35:42 PM11/19/11

to

In <A6B9336CDB62BB46B9F87...@NRHMMS8P02.uicnrh.dom>,
on 11/18/2011

at 08:02 AM, "McKown, John" <John....@HEALTHMARKETS.COM> said:

>#! is normally pronounced "shebang" in UNIX. I guess a verbal
>slurring of "hash bang" together.

I doubt it; my guiess is that the term is short for "shell bang"; it's
used with the file of a shell or language processor, e.g., bash, Perl.

#!/usr/bin/perl -W

Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.

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Nov 19, 2011, 8:36:23 PM11/19/11

to

In <BLU0-SMTP306B2A2BC...@phx.gbl>, on 11/18/2011
at 07:57 AM, Ken Hume IBM <kph...@LIVE.COM> said:

>We always called the * a "splat".

I believe that is the norm in EUnix circles. Likewise bang for "!" and
shebang for "#!".

Mike Liberatore

unread,

Nov 19, 2011, 9:02:38 PM11/19/11

to

Out

------Original Message------
From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
ReplyTo: IBM Mainframe Discussion List

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.

unread,

Nov 19, 2011, 9:27:50 PM11/19/11

to

In
<CAPD5F5oUn2kUFagRyQ4CG8JGcNfhuVYF3M1=4dqfF05...@mail.gmail.com>,
on 11/18/2011
at 09:14 AM, John Gilmore <johnwgil...@GMAIL.COM> said:

>'<' and '>' are often called broken brackets. The ALGOL definition
>document, for example, uses this term, as do many descriptions of
>BNF.

Neither "REPORT ON THE ALGORITHMIC LANGUAGE ALGOL 60" nor "Revised
Report on ALGOL 60" use the term "broken bracket". Perhaps you are
confusing "broken bracket" with "bracket".

There is a term brocket in the Hacker's Dictionary that appears in a
lot of other jargon files, but I found no sign of anybody actually
using the term when defining a new language.

Mike Liberatore

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Nov 19, 2011, 9:49:18 PM11/19/11

to

Out
------Original Message------
From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
ReplyTo: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: Terminology RE: USS

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Tony Harminc

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Nov 19, 2011, 10:00:52 PM11/19/11

to

On 18 November 2011 11:01, John Gilmore <johnwgil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This 'Shebang'---There is of course another one--- is not just a
> verbal slurring of 'Hash Bang'. It has a much more elegant name. It
> is a conflation.
>
> Consider, just in English, to which they are not confined,
>
> o Edmund Spenser: wrizzled (wrinkled + frizzled)
>
> o Shakespeare: glaze (glare + gaze)
>
> o· Lewis Carroll: slithy (slimy, lithe), chortle (chuckle, snort),
> snark (snake, shark), galumph (gallop, triumph)
>
> They have a long, much (even too much) discussed literary history
> under this rubric, and Carroll talks about them repeatedly in his
> letters to Ellen Terry.

I am surprised at conflation being used this way. I understand
conflation to carry implication of at least some degree of error or
confusion, intentional or otherwise. This etymology of "Shebang" may
well involve conflation, but the word itself is surely better called
by Carroll's now quite standard term portmanteau.

Tony H.

Dale Miller

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Nov 21, 2011, 3:07:34 AM11/21/11

to

I hope, since this is not about "USS", that I won't be moderated on
this. I wish to reply to a question John McKown raised on 18 Nov :"And
what is the proper word for the PL/1 "not" sign' ? (x'00AC' in
Unicode). It is a standard operator in formal mathematical language,
AFAIK almost universally used to indicate logical negation in an
expression, and normally called the "negation symbol", but informally
called the "not sign".

Dale Miller

adrianstern

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Nov 21, 2011, 5:09:13 AM11/21/11

to

On Nov 20, 2:36 am, shmuel+ibm-m...@PATRIOT.NET (Shmuel Metz ,
Seymour J.) wrote:
> In <BLU0-SMTP306B2A2BCC8F2E7C954F8CFB6...@phx.gbl>, on 11/18/2011

> at 07:57 AM, Ken Hume IBM <kph...@LIVE.COM> said:
>
> >We always called the * a "splat".
>
> I believe that is the norm in EUnix circles. Likewise bang for "!" and
> shebang for "#!".
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
> ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
> We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
> (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,

> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO

> Search the archives athttp://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

in English the ! sign is pronounced shriek in mathematics where it
represents factorials, ie 3! is 3x2x1 - I know of no other usage!

I suspect that shebang has the same origin as the zap command in
assembler - whoever invented it read a lot of comics and liked the
name - the logical explanation was added afterward

McKown, John

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Nov 21, 2011, 8:39:04 AM11/21/11

to

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List

> [mailto:IBM-...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Dale Miller
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 1:23 AM
> To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Terminology
>
> I hope, since this is not about "USS", that I won't be moderated on
> this. I wish to reply to a question John McKown raised on 18
> Nov :"And
> what is the proper word for the PL/1 "not" sign' ? (x'00AC' in
> Unicode). It is a standard operator in formal mathematical language,
> AFAIK almost universally used to indicate logical negation in an
> expression, and normally called the "negation symbol", but
> informally
> called the "not sign".
>
>
> Dale Miller

So, no fancy name like octothrope for # or solidus for /. How disappointing! <grin>

--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone *
john....@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

Pommier, Rex R.

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Nov 21, 2011, 10:23:26 AM11/21/11

to

All,

Don't know if this is legit on the list, but here goes. We've done some data migration and have a DS6800 available for the right home.

3 drawers, 40-146 GB 10K drives, 4-2Gb FICON channels.

It's been on IBM maintenance since the day we installed it. Been solid as a rock, and I hate to part with it.

If you're interested, please contact me off-list and I can send you a complete feature list.

Rex Pommier
CNA Surety
Sioux Falls, SD

rex.p...@cnasurety.com

605-977-7719

The information contained in this e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and that you will be held responsible for any such unauthorized activity, including liability for any resulting damages. As appropriate, such incident(s) may also be reported to law enforcement. If you received this e-mail in error, please reply to sender and destroy or delete the message and any attachments. Thank you.

Mike Schwab

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Nov 21, 2011, 12:36:28 PM11/21/11

to

That is about 4 TB usuable after 6 + P + S. eBay posting followed by
a link probably would be fairest method of resale.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Pommier, Rex R.
<Rex.P...@cnasurety.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> Don't know if this is legit on the list, but here goes. We've done some data migration and have a DS6800 available for the right home.
>
> 3 drawers, 40-146 GB 10K drives, 4-2Gb FICON channels.
>
> It's been on IBM maintenance since the day we installed it. Been solid as a rock, and I hate to part with it.
>
> If you're interested, please contact me off-list and I can send you a complete feature list.
>
> Rex Pommier
> CNA Surety
> Sioux Falls, SD
>
> rex.p...@cnasurety.com
>
> 605-977-7719
>
> The information contained in this e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and that you will be held responsible for any such unauthorized activity, including liability for any resulting damages. As appropriate, such incident(s) may also be reported to law enforcement. If you received this e-mail in error, please reply to sender and destroy or delete the message and any attachments. Thank you.

--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

Rick Fochtman

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Nov 21, 2011, 6:53:12 PM11/21/11

to

-------------------------------------------<snip>--------------------------------------

I hope, since this is not about "USS", that I won't be moderated on
this. I wish to reply to a question John McKown raised on 18 Nov :"And
what is the proper word for the PL/1 "not" sign' ? (x'00AC' in
Unicode). It is a standard operator in formal mathematical language,
AFAIK almost universally used to indicate logical negation in an
expression, and normally called the "negation symbol", but informally
called the "not sign".

---------------------------------------<unsnip>-----------------------------------------
The only name I heard for it, that I remember, was "inverted
circumflex". How about that for a meaningless mouthful? :-)

Rick

Roger Bolan

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Nov 21, 2011, 7:28:04 PM11/21/11

to

I searched IBM font codepages and found that symbol designated as "Logical
NOT/End Of Line Symbol". I've always just called it "not sign".
--Roger

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Rick Fochtman <rfoc...@ync.net> wrote:

> ------------------------------**-------------<snip>-----------**

> ---------------------------
> I hope, since this is not about "USS", that I won't be moderated on this.
> I wish to reply to a question John McKown raised on 18 Nov :"And what is
> the proper word for the PL/1 "not" sign' ? (x'00AC' in Unicode). It is a
> standard operator in formal mathematical language, AFAIK almost
> universally used to indicate logical negation in an expression, and
> normally called the "negation symbol", but informally called the "not
> sign".

> ------------------------------**---------<unsnip>-------------**

> ----------------------------
> The only name I heard for it, that I remember, was "inverted circumflex".
> How about that for a meaningless mouthful? :-)
>
> Rick
>

> ------------------------------**------------------------------**----------

> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to list...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO

> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/**ibm-main.html<http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html>

Gerhard Postpischil

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Nov 21, 2011, 9:02:56 PM11/21/11

to

On 11/21/2011 4:32 PM, Rick Fochtman wrote:
> -------------------------------------------<snip>--------------------------------------

> "negation symbol", but informally called the "not sign".
> ---------------------------------------<unsnip>-----------------------------------------
>
> The only name I heard for it, that I remember, was "inverted
> circumflex". How about that for a meaningless mouthful? :-)

There is a name for an inverted circumflex, but it's not a not
sign, but rather a caron, or hacek (with one on top of the c).
My grandfather had one in his name.

Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

John Gilmore

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Nov 21, 2011, 9:20:20 PM11/21/11

to

There is a name for '¬' too. See the discussion of notation in volume
1 of Principia Mathematica.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

Brian Westerman

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Nov 22, 2011, 1:44:55 AM11/22/11

to

In my college math classes we called it a negation. Which doesn't make it correct, and I no longer have the Calculus books from way back then.

Brian

Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.

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Nov 22, 2011, 11:20:38 AM11/22/11

to

In <4ECAC35B...@ync.net>, on 11/21/2011

at 03:32 PM, Rick Fochtman <rfoc...@YNC.NET> said:

>The only name I heard for it, that I remember, was "inverted
>circumflex".

An inverted circumflex[1] would look like a logical Or, not like a
logical Not (¬), which is a horizontal segment and a shorter vertical
segment.

[1] It's an accent in some languages and is called something
like Hacheck. I know it best as the accent in Dvorak.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

Bill Fairchild

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Nov 22, 2011, 11:51:37 AM11/22/11

to

It's the accent above the "r" in Dvořák. There is also an accent above the "a". The word "hachek" (hacheck, or transliterated any other way one likes) is, of course, self-referentially spelled with a hachek in Czech -- háček. I can only hope that all my diacritics survive the various email editors through which they pass.

Bill Fairchild

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:10 AM
To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Terminology

[1] It's an accent in some languages and is called something
like Hacheck. I know it best as the accent in Dvorak.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>

John Gilmore

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Nov 22, 2011, 12:06:30 PM11/22/11

to

The ‘inverted circumflex’, as in ‘ă’, is in fact more like a lower
semicircle than an inversion of the circumflex in ‘â’. It occur alone
and in combination with other marks, as in ‘ặ ’, ‘ắ’, and ‘ẵ’.

Linguists writing in English, in which it does not occur, sometimes
call it a cup. In the languages in which it is actually used it has
other names, different in each language. This is to be expected. The
mark over the 'a' in 'ä' is, for example, called a diaresis in English
and an umlaut in German.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

Linda Mooney

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Nov 22, 2011, 12:32:42 PM11/22/11

to

Greetings!

<snip-----------

The mark over the 'a' in 'ä' is, for example, called a diaresis in English
and an umlaut in German.

</snip-----------

Even in my English class it was called an umlaut, but that is the only one of the marks (is that the proper term?) that I recognize. I have been following this thread and I can see that there are many more marks than I have ever been aware of. Somebody's (maybe everybody's) email editor is probably playing tricks as the same marks, including those forwarded, are not shown consistently in my inbox.

Can anyone offer a link with these marks that includes something about them, and hopefully audible enunciation? I did check Google, and found listings for en.wiktionary.org and www.tfode.com , but are there better references?

Thanks,

Linda

----- Original Message -----

Bill Fairchild

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Nov 22, 2011, 12:52:04 PM11/22/11

to

Look up "diacritic" in Wikipedia and be prepared to drink from the fire hydrant of knowledge on scores of different marks used in hundreds of human writing systems.

Bill Fairchild

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Mooney
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 11:30 AM
To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Terminology

Steve Comstock

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Nov 22, 2011, 12:52:08 PM11/22/11

to

On 11/22/2011 10:30 AM, Linda Mooney wrote:
> Greetings!
>
>
>
> <snip-----------
>
> The mark over the 'a' in 'ä' is, for example, called a diaresis in English
> and an umlaut in German.
> </snip-----------
>
>
>
> Even in my English class it was called an umlaut, but that is the only one of the marks (is that the proper term?) that I recognize. I have been following this thread and I can see that there are many more marks than I have ever been aware of. Somebody's (maybe everybody's) email editor is probably playing tricks as the same marks, including those forwarded, are not shown consistently in my inbox.
>
>
>
> Can anyone offer a link with these marks that includes something about them, and hopefully audible enunciation? I did check Google, and found listings for en.wiktionary.org and www.tfode.com , but are there better references?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Linda
>

David Bond of Tachyon Software has some great pages
on this. For what you're asking about, check out:

http://www.tachyonsoft.com/uc0000.htm#U00C4

>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
>
> From: "John Gilmore"<johnwgil...@GMAIL.COM>
> To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 9:02:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Terminology
>
> The ‘inverted circumflex’, as in ‘ă’, is in fact more like a lower
> semicircle than an inversion of the circumflex in ‘â’. It occur alone
> and in combination with other marks, as in ‘ặ ’, ‘ắ’, and ‘ẵ’.
>
> Linguists writing in English, in which it does not occur, sometimes
> call it a cup. In the languages in which it is actually used it has
> other names, different in each language. This is to be expected. The
> mark over the 'a' in 'ä' is, for example, called a diaresis in English
> and an umlaut in German.
>
> John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to list...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to list...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
>

--

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-355-2752
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment!
+ Training your people is an excellent investment

* Try our tool for calculating your Return On Investment
for training dollars at
http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html

John Gilmore

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Nov 22, 2011, 3:14:32 PM11/22/11

to

Linda Mooney wrote:

| Can anyone offer a link with these marks that includes something
about them, and
| hopefully audible enunciation?

Sound bites are useful, but mastery of the linguists' International
Phonetic Alphabetic is what you should shoot for first.

The marks can be deceptive. Pronunciation of the Hungarian name 'Béla
Bartók' is subtly different from that suggested by anglophone
associations with these marks, which are usually based on some
knowledge of their use in French. These associations are better than
what is suggested to most anglophones by just 'Bela Bartok', but they
don't yield a good result. In other cases, one must just learn a
little. Polish is not, for example, difficult to pronounce once one
has done so. Without that little, it appears to an anglophone to be a
thicket of consonants.

Łukasiewicz==>Woo-kaze-yevitch

is not intuitively obvious to anglophones, but once you learn it you
can stop using the copout term 'Polish notation'. (My own spoken
Polish consists of very simple declararative sentences punctuated by
15-second pauses used to construct the next one, but I can read and
pronounce it.)

Now for a commercial. The use of these marks in other languages is
one of the more powerful arguments for converting our systems to
Unicode, which makes them available,

Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.

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Nov 22, 2011, 5:07:48 PM11/22/11

to

In
<143900959.130026.13219...@sz0042a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>,
on 11/22/2011

at 05:30 PM, Linda Mooney <Linda....@COMCAST.NET> said:

>Even in my English class it was called an umlaut,

The accent in, e.g., Jütte, is an umlaut. The diacritical mark in,
e.g., naïve, is a diaresis[2].

>Somebody's (maybe everybody's) email editor is probably playing
>tricks

Correct transmission of anything but ASCII require three header
fields, e.g.,

Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umlaut>; it's a special case of
a diaresis

[2] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic)>

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>

We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.

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Nov 22, 2011, 5:15:56 PM11/22/11

to

In
<CAPD5F5ocmnYbZyTtpkPMcGC=4UiPrhSv6XJaw...@mail.gmail.com>,
on 11/22/2011

at 12:02 PM, John Gilmore <johnwgil...@GMAIL.COM> said:

>Linguists writing in English, in which it does not occur, sometimes
>call it a cup.

The /\ and \/ characters are also known as cap and cup in Mathematics,
especially in Homology Theory.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.

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Nov 22, 2011, 5:16:26 PM11/22/11

to

In
<77142D37C0C3C34DA0D7...@nwt-s-mbx2.rocketsoftware.com>,
on 11/22/2011

at 04:47 PM, Bill Fairchild <bfair...@ROCKETSOFTWARE.COM> said:

>I can only hope that all my diacritics survive the various email
>editors through which they pass.

Alas, my e-mail client doesn't support UTF-8. However, IMHO you did
the right thing to use Unicode.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>

We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

Linda Mooney

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Nov 23, 2011, 2:29:35 AM11/23/11

to

Hi John,

Nothing beats an accomplished and/or native speaker. Still, the 'sound bites' are usually better than the native English speaker's attempt at figuring out how things should sound. :)

Some years ago I had the great opportunity to spend 2 years living in Germany and traveling about a bit. All I had to lean on at the beginning was a Berlitz Traveler's German book. I found its most useful feature was the phonetic spelling for an English speaker of the German words and phrases. It helped me get started and rescued me several times until I learned more of the language. I am not fluent, but I still regularly listen to German and Austrian radio over the net and visit some websites in German.

I inquired of our buddy Google as regards the International Phonetic Alphabet, which led me to http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ipa.htm interesting site.

Thanks,

Linda

----- Original Message -----

From: "John Gilmore" <johnwgil...@GMAIL.COM>
To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu

Linda Mooney

unread,

Nov 23, 2011, 2:49:00 AM11/23/11

to

Hi Steve,

That's a great site! I'll keep that bookmarked.

Thanks,

Linda

----- Original Message -----

Linda Mooney

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Nov 23, 2011, 2:49:31 AM11/23/11

to

Hi Shmuel,

Thanks, I appreciate the info and the links.

Linda

----- Original Message -----

From: "Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)" <shmuel+...@PATRIOT.NET>
To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu

Linda Mooney

unread,

Nov 23, 2011, 2:53:07 AM11/23/11

to

Hi Bill,

Yes, that was indeed and abundant reference!

Thanks,

Linda

----- Original Message -----

Bob Woodside

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Dec 3, 2011, 1:51:05 PM12/3/11

to

On Saturday, December 03, 2011 at 02:22 am Dale Miller wrote:
> I hope, since this is not about "USS", that I won't be moderated on
> this. I wish to reply to a question John McKown raised on 18 Nov
> :"And what is the proper word for the PL/1 "not" sign' ? (x'00AC' in
> Unicode). It is a standard operator in formal mathematical language,
> AFAIK almost universally used to indicate logical negation in an
> expression, and normally called the "negation symbol", but
> informally called the "not sign".

Users of x3270 tend to call it a "CircumNot" (I'm not sure whether Paul
Mattes coined the term, or one of the earlier x3270 maintainers).

Other old 3270 users just call it "Shift-6" (but don't try that on your
PC keyboard).

Bob Woodside

Robert A. Rosenberg

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Dec 3, 2011, 9:36:05 PM12/3/11

to

At 17:06 -0500 on 11/22/2011, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote about
Re: Terminology:

>Correct transmission of anything but ASCII require three header
>fields, e.g.,
>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

The Charset can also be ISO-8859-1 (which is the usual ISO-8859-*).
It differs from -15 by not having a few French letters missing from
-1 and having the fraction characters (1/4, 1/2, 3/4) that were
removed in -15 to make room for the French Characters. -15 also
officially contains the Euro Symbol [也 which is not in -1. Even
better since it will show ALL Glyphs just use UTF-8.

Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.

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Dec 4, 2011, 12:09:41 AM12/4/11

to

In <201112031227...@woodsway.com>, on 12/03/2011

at 12:27 PM, Bob Woodside <ibm...@WOODSWAY.COM> said:

>Other old 3270 users just call it "Shift-6" (but don't try that on
>your PC keyboard).

Alt-M[1] gives me ¬ on my PC keyboard. YMMV.

[1] I would have consider Alt-6 to be more logical[2], but thay
gives me °[3].

[2] G, D & R.

[3] Dead key round circle.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.

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Dec 4, 2011, 12:15:29 AM12/4/11

to

In <p06240802cb00877b408e@[192.168.1.11]>, on 12/03/2011

at 09:29 PM, "Robert A. Rosenberg" <hal...@PANIX.COM> said:

>The Charset can also be ISO-8859-1

Il va sans dire. I wrote "e.g.", not "i.e.", so those fields were
examples.

>(which is the usual ISO-8859-*).

ISO-8859-a is Latin 1, which does not include the Euro (€) character.
ISO-8859-15 is its replacement. Of course, with the meltdown of the
Euro Zone, ...

>Euro Symbol [ ]

You're posting in Latin 1; there is no Euro symbol.

>Even better since it will show ALL Glyphs just use UTF-8.

Alas, my e-mail client does not support Unicode, which is why I use
ISO-8859-15. If I find an acceptable replacement then I will, of
course, configure it to use UTF-8.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)