Slovak-Magyar RelationsA couple of months ago I wrote a short article responding
julia Ondrejcekova
Koszorus's article 'Dispelling Illusions', published in the Washington
Times. My response dealt with the treatment of the Hungarian minority
in Slovakia, and appeared on HL in April this year. Since then, I
have come across a lot of interesting material that could share some
more light
on the issues discussed in the article. That's the reason why I decided
to share them with the
members and readers of the HL. It is my view that in order to
understand
the complicated relationship between Slovaks and Hungarians today, it is
necessary to understand what happened between the two nations in the
past. I hope you enjoy reading it.
Julia Ondrejcekova (jondre...@hotmail.com)
P.S. In my previous article I was accused of not providing any real
facts,
data, and or sources to support my statements. In this article I try to
do just that.
Under the dual-monarchy in Austria-Hungary, the Magyars were constantly
closing down the Slovak schools. By so doing, they deprived the Slovak
children from receiving education in their mother tongue.
Here are some examples:
1) In 1874, three Slovak special high schools (so called gymnasia) were
closed by Magyars on the ground that they were Pan-Slav Dens of evil
which would eventually destroy Magyar culture. All three were founded
from the donations of the Slovaks.
2) Also, in 1874, the most sublime of Slovak culture institutions,
Matica Slovenska, was closed down, on the charges that it was taking
part in political activity, and that it had managed its property
carelessly. Despite the fact that Matica's property belonged to the
Slovaks, Magyars confiscated its library, money, and all its museum
collections. When Polit, a Serbian Deputy protested to Tizsa (then the
Magyar prime minister) that Matica belonged to the Slovak people and not
Magyars, Tisza would reply: ' There is no Slovak nation'.
Work cited: Gilbert L. Oddo, Slovakia and Its People, Robert Speller &
Sons, Publishers, New York, 1960.
The Massacre of Slovaks In The Village of Cernova.
Cernova is a small village in Slovakia where in 1907, as many as 16
Slovaks were
shot to death, only because the village community wanted that their
church be consecrated by the Slovak priest Andrej Hlinka. However, the
Magyar bishop designated a Magyar priest to do so, which was rejected by
the village community. This horrible event was published in October 29,
(1907) article in one of the most prominent dailies in
the world 'The London Times'. The article reads: 'A sad occurrence is
reported from Hungary at Csernova, a suburb of the Slovak town of
Roszahegy, 11 Slovak peasants were yesterday shod dead, and 16, of whom
five have since died, severely wounded by the Hungarian gendarmes for
resisting an attempt to consecrate by force a new parish church against
the will of the inhabitants. The magistrate, without warning, ordered
the gendarmes toe use their weapons. Four volleys were fired at close
quarters, 11 peasants being killed outright, including two women and a
girl.' One of the woman, as reported in the book "Slovak-Magyar
Relations" by Marko, Martinicky was pregnant.
Does the above need any comments?
The Magyars used violence against the Slovaks through the entire 20 th
century. It should be noted that the Slovaks, during the course of 50
years, were occupied by the Magyars as many as five times. The
occupations occurred as follows: in 1919 by Bela Kun, in
1938-annexation of Southern Slovakia and in 1939-invasion of Eastern
Slovakia- both times by Mikolas Horthy, in 1944-during the so called
National Slovak Uprising, and finally, in 1968-during the invasion of
the former Czecho-Slovakia by the Warsaw Pact Armies. A substantial
evidence does exists that in March 1939 Horthy decided to invade and
take over the rest of Slovakia. Following is a telegram sent by Horthy
to Hitler, revealing Horthy's plan to overtake Slovakia:
"Your Excellency-my sincere thanks, I can hardly tell you how happy I am
because this (Danube) Head Water Region-I dislike using big words of
vital importance to the life of Hungary. In spite of the fact that our
recruits have only been serving five weeks, we are going into this
affair with eager enthusiasm. The dispositions have already been made.
On Thursday, the sixteenth of this month, a frontier incident will take
place which will be followed by the big blow on Saturday. I shall never
forget this proof of friendship, and Your Excellency may rely on my
unshakable gratitude at all times. Your devoted friend-Horthy."
Source: Gilbert L. Oddo, Slovakia an Its People, New York, 1960, page
248.
Kidnapping of Slovak children. A complete extermination of Slovaks?
In their attempts to denationalize the Slovaks, the Magyars didn't even
hesitate to use poor Slovak children to achieve this goal. Gilbert L.
Oddo
describes the painful episode of the kidnapping of the Slovak children
in his book (Slovakia and Its People) on page 145: '
"But the most hideous example to denationalize the Slovaks concerns the
forced removal of Slovak children from their families into pure Magyar
districts. It began in 1874 and took periodically for 18 years until the
Magyars could not longer ignore the violent outrage of protest. Only
then was this brutal program halted." Another source, a book called
Slovak-Magyar
Relations written by Augustin Marko and Pavol Martinicky, describes the
forced collections of the Slovak children as follows: "Among the
repressive measures was collection of orphans and children who were
forcibly separated from their Slovak parents and taken to the Lower Land
(present day Hungary) to be distributed among the wealthier farmers and
others to serve there and for the purposes of Magyarization. The number
of displaced children is estimated to 60,000'(Augustin Marko, Pavol
Martinicky, Slovak-Magyar Relations, history and present day in figures.
Slovak Society for Protection of Democracy and Humanity, Bratislava,
1995)
How inhuman the denationalizing process of the Slovaks by the Magyars
really was also proves the book of Bela Grunwald: Felvidek:Politikai
Tanulmany, in which he stays: 'To gain the Slovaks willingly, is
Impossible. There is only one way of getting rid of them-complete
extermination.' Furthermore, Bela Grunwald wrote following in the same
book: ' In upper Hungary (Slovakia) secondary schools are like machines
into which Slovak boys are loaded on one end to leave as Magyars on the
other end.' Even worse rhetoric, this time against Romanians, can be
found in the Hungarian National Prayer issued by the Magyar Freedom
Fighters and reprinted in 1983, by the Romanian publication Carpatii.
Following is the original: 'Dear fellow countrymen! What dearer ideal
could be for a Magyar by the end of this century but the struggle for
Magyar motherland? Let us not be dragged in the night of oblivion and
apathy, let us host the time when our motherland will be within its
sacred boundaries again. Let us ceaselessly get ready for that moment.
Let us utter like a prayer of encouragement, like an oath of faith,
Dusco Csaba's words:'I shall kill each Romanian crossing my way! I shall
exterminate one and all. Without mercy! At night, I shall set Romanian
villages on fire, I shall rip the whole population with my sword. I
shall poison the wells, I shall strangle the babies. I shall be
merciless. Towards all! I shall have no pity for children or pregnant
mothers either. Revenge! Without pity, dire revenge!
This is our ideal to fight. It is only by unity that we can emerge
victorious. We must bear Transylvania in our blood and never forget it
ever in our sleep. Let us stir confidence and hopes in Transylvania and
struggle. Like a good Magyar. Like a real Magyar. AMEN.
Treatment of the Jews in Slovakia and Hungary during WW2.
In her reply to my article back in April, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker claims
that the extreme nationalism and dominant ethnocentrism was not unique
to Hungary only. She suggested that I look at the Slavic pogroms against
Jews in Russia and Poland and try to come up with an explanation for
that. Furthermore, she suggested that considering all that was being
done by the first world nations at the same time, Hungary may qualify
for national sainthood for its comparative restraint. If Hungary
qualifies for national sainthood, then Slovakia must have achieved one
already. Especially, when considering the treatment of the Jews in
Slovakia, during the war time period (1939-45), under the presidency of
Mr. Tiso. Furthermore, it has to be noted that it was foreigners who
were responsible for the heaviest anti-Semitic rhetoric propagandized in
Slovakia. Among them also was the former President of Czecho-Slovakia
Thomas G. Masaryk, who had following to say about how the Jews should be
treated in Slovakia:
"Anti-Semitism in Slovakia is warranted. . . In your land the Jews are
everywhere, without exception, against the cultural efforts of the
people. They practice usury. People must be saved from the yoke of
alcohol and Jewish capital. . . Priests must be national; the Church
must be anti-Semitic so that the people might free itself economically
from Jewish capital."
Source: Kurt Glaser, Czecho-Slovakia a Critical History, p.60.
It was Masaryk's followers, so-called Hlasists, living in Slovakia, who
were spreading the anti-Semitism.
Also, it is very important to be aware of the fact that Slovakia, when
comparing with other countries, such as the Czech Republic (which began
deportations of the Jews in October 1939),only began deporting the
Slovak Jews as late as March 1942.
Kurt Glasser in his book Czecho-Slovakia, A Critical History, has this
to say about the treatment of the Jews by the Slovak President Tiso
during the
war: "At his (Pr. Tiso) initiative , the Slovak Assembly met and passed
the constitutional law of May 15, 1942, which although ostensibly a
mandate for the deportation of Jews from Slovakia, actually reduced
reduced the shipments to a mere trickle. The new law confirmed all the
exceptions previously granted by the president and the ministers, and
created a new general exceptions for Jews baptized before March 14,
1939.' When learning that the Jews deported from Slovakia to Poland
were being murdered, President Tiso immediately ordered to stop any
further shipments of Jews from Slovakia. A well known Jewish historian
Gerald Reintlinger, in his book The Final Solution, on page 385, called
the revolt of the President Tiso against mass liquidation of Slovak Jews
in 1942 "the first outright failure of the final solution" (Source:
Gerald Reitlinger, The Final Solution. London: Vallentine.
Mitchell,1953.)
When the Slovak government became suspicious about the treatment of the
Jews deported from Slovakia to Poland, it began pressing the Germans
for a permission to visit the concentration camps (or so called
resettlement centers-as referred to by Germans). Of course the Germans
couldn't grant that, because the deported Jews already had been killed.
Also, it has to be noted that the Slovak government started to transport
the families of the previously deported Jews to Poland only after they
were given personal assurances by the German officials that the deported
Jews would be treated humanely. (Glaser, Czecho-Slovakia A Critical
History, p. 62). What were the true intentions of the President Tiso
when considering the treatment of the Jews in Slovakia proves the
following excerpt from the book called Eichman in Jerulazem written by
Hannah Arendt. It reads: "In December, 1943, Dr. Edmund Veesenmayer came
to Bratislava to
see Father Tiso himself; he had been sent by Hitler and his orders
specified that he should tell Tiso "to come down to earth". Tiso
promised to put between sixteen and eighteen thousand unconverted Jews
in concentration camps and to establish a special camp
for about ten thousand baptized Jews, but he did not agree to
deportations. In June, 1944, Veesenmayer, now Reich plenipotentiary in
Hungary, appeared again, and demanded that the remaining Jews in the
country be included in the Hungarian operations. Tiso refused again."
(Revised and Enlarged Edition Eichman in Jerusalem. A report on the
banality of evil by Hannah Arend, Penguin Books.
Most of remaining Jews who did not enjoy exceptions from being deported
were sent to labor camps located on the territory of Slovakia. In one of
them, located in
Novaky (Western Slovakia), the Jews even enjoyed several social services
which could be only
hardly found in any other similar Jewish institutions on the European
soil controlled by Nazi Germany. There were swimming pools, sports
stadium, kindergarten, schools, and nursery. (National Scientific
Institute, 1966).
Conditions in these camps were characterized by the International Red
Cross as follows:."At certain times Slovakia was regarded as a refuge
of the Jews, especially Polish Jews; the Jews who remained in Slovakia
were comparatively protected until the uprising against the German army
at the end of August, 1944. It is true that the law of May 15, 1942,
resulted in the arrest of several thousands of Jews, but in the camps,
where living and housing conditions were adequate, the prisoners were
allowed to work for pay under conditions which approximated the free
economy".
Furthermore, it has to be reminded that during the existence of the
first
Slovak Republic (1939-1945), not a single person was executed, given the
fact that it was during the war time. Not a single classical democracy
in the world has such an excellent record. In Hungary, however, the
situation was totally different. Joel Brand in his book Desparate
Mission, Joel Brand Story, published in New York in 1958, has following
to say about the treatment of the Jews by the Hungarians during WW2.:
'In 1941, when war broke in Russia, tens of thousands of conscripts
(Jews) were sent, insufficiently clothed, to the districts occupied by
the Hungarian troops. Most of them perished. The Jews were impressed
into a sort of military forced-labor service.
The atrocities that later took place in these labor gangs were to make
comparable to the camps run by the Gestapo.'
According to Joel Brand, this is how the Jews-conscripts, were
treated: "Often whole companies were forced to crawl on their hands and
knees, with their dinner plates between their teeth, barking like dogs.
Often, so called shooting parties would be organized. The Jews would be
forced to climb trees and jump like monkeys from branch to branch. Woe
betide any who might fall, for the hunters would be waiting for them
with their bayonets. If they jumped too slowly, the beaters would deal
with them, with whips and sticks. On other occasions they would be
thrown, in chains, onto a campfire and burned to death." Brand in his
book also describes a slaughter of some thousands of Jews in Bachka.
According to the book: "In the spring of 1941, the Hungarian government
had concluded a treaty of friendship with Yugoslavia, whose government
was then on friendly terms with the Axis powers. When this government
fell, the Bachka was occupied by Hungarians troops, who instituted a
ferocious pogrom on January 6, 1942. In the space of a few hours, some
thousands of Jews were savagely done to death.'
The Joel Brand Story also describes mass killings of the Jews in
Budapest in 1944. The
Crossed Arrows murder squads ranged through the streets and dragged
every Jew, or every person looked like a Jew, to the banks of the Danube
and shot him. Every morning corpses would be found on the pavements of
the city streets."
Following statistics reveal the number of the Magyars living in
Slovakia, and the number of the Slovaks living in Hungary, after 1918,
and WWII. The
excerpts are quoted directly from Marko, Martinicky's book
"Slovak-Magyar
Relations". The book reads: "The results of the Magyar nationality
policies in Slovakia stand in
great contrast with the results of nationality policies enforced upon
the Slovaks in Hungary.
The Number of Slovaks in Hungary After 1918
According to the 1920 Hungarian official statistics data, 399,170
citizens spoke the Slovak language, but actually much more Slovaks lived
in Hungary at that time.
The Number of Slovaks in Hungary After World WarII.
The issue of the number of Slovaks in Hungary (after WW II) was raised
at the Paris Peace Conference in 1946. J. Gyongyosi, Hungarian Prime
Minister, stated that based on Hungarian statistics only 70,000 Slovaks
lived in Hungary. V.Clementis, leader of the Czechoslovak delegation.
stated that the Czechoslovak Repatriation Committee reported about
450,000 Slovaks during their several-month stay in Hungary. The official
figure published by the Committee totaled 473,552 Slovaks of which
73,273 moved to Slovakia within the framework of the inhabitants
exchange, hence, 400,279 Slovaks stayed in Hungary after repatriation.
The last census in Hungary was conducted in 1990. Despite almost a total
lack of intense solicitation of the nationally-minded Slovaks, only
10,459 citizens had the courage to stand up for their Slovak
nationality35 (as few as 12,745 citizens stated Slovak to be their
mother tongue, i.e. by 2,286 more).
This state is an outcome of the nationality policies of all the
Hungarian governments without exception, an outcome of intimidation and
concern about social and existential consequences individuals were faced
with in the event of claiming Slovak nationality.
The Slovaks in Hungary are largely referred to as Magyars that happen to
speak Slovak rather than citizens of Slovak nationality. They have
almost completely lost their Slovak identity.
The representatives of Hungarian governments and the Magyar minority in
Slovakia justify the diminishing number of Slovaks in Hungary by their
diffusion. However, many Slovaks lived in Hungary close to the border
(up to Budapest and its environs). It should be noted that in former
Yugoslavia, in Vojvodina, 63,941 citizens claimed Slovak nationality in
the last census, 36,000 in Croatia, and 20,672 in Rumania, although
these countries are much farther away from Slovakia and Hungary and
despite the fact that initially, the number of Slovaks in these
countries was much lower than in Hungary. In Vojvodina, the Slovaks have
their schools, a grammar school and the same holds for Rumania (38
schools in which only history and geography are taught in the Rumanian
language). Ironically, in Hungary where the number of Slovaks was much
higher, they did not have any schools with Slovak as the language of
instruction except for a limited period of time after 1918 and 1945.
These facts indicate that the cause of an almost total extinction of the
Slovaks in Hungary was forcible assimilation organized and managed by
all the Hungarian governments.
The Number of Magyars in Slovakia in 1918 -1938
In the 1921 census conducted in the C.S.R, 637,183 citizens claiming
Magyar nationality were reported in Slovakia and in 1930, they totaled
585,434.
The representatives of the Magyar minority in Slovakia state in their
claims filed with international organizations including the Council of
Europe and various pamphlets disseminated abroad that about a million
Magyars stayed in Slovakia after the downfall of Historic Hungary in
1920 which is a false statement.
The Number of Magyars in Slovakia after World War II
In the 1961 census, 518,782 citizens claiming Magyar nationality were
reported in Slovakia. In 1991, this figure increased to 567,296, which
is an increase by 48,514 citizens, i.e. 9.35 per cent.
Also, a high number of Romany (the Gypsies) claim Magyar nationality.
These citizens live largely in nationally commingled areas in great
concentrations. It is estimated that about 150,000 Gypsies have claimed
Magyar nationality. J. Szitkey, Romany leader, estimated and published
in press that some 200,000 Gypsies claimed Magyar nationality in the
most recent census.
As many as 567,296 Magyars have been reported in Slovakia despite the
fact that:
- a lot of citizens of the Magyar nationality perished in World War II
on the battlefields in the Soviet Union;
- in 1946 - 1948,74,407 citizens resettled in Hungary within and outside
the framework of the inhabitants exchange and out of the number of
citizens that moved to the Czech lands, 20,069 stayed there voluntarily;
- out of 35,000 Jews who never returned from concentration camps to
Slovakia part claimed Magyar nationality and thousands of citizens of
Magyar nationality were displaced to the Soviet Union when the front
swept across the country;
- a lower birth rate is reported in the Magyar population than in the
Slovak population.
- In Hungary, the number of population between the last two censuses has
dropped by 336,000
Slovakia is the only country in the world, and Hungary is no exception,
in which the number of Magyar population continues to grow.
And finally, following is a comparison of the number of the schools,
kindergartens, newspapers, and other services that t he Magyars enjoy
in
Slovakia. You can compare it with the services available for the Slovak
minority living in Hungary. The comparison was made as a part of an open
letter the representatives of the Slovak minority in Hungary submitted
to Hungarian government in April 1989.
Magyars in Slovakia:
Population: 559,490
Kindergartens 386
Elementary schools 131
Secondary modern schools 31
Secondary technical schools 22
Technical schools 25
Grammar schools 18
Theatres 2
Independent nationality
publishing house I
Majority publishing houses
publishing literature
of national minorities 6
Newspapers, magazines 24
Slovaks in Hungary:
Population: 110,000 (in reality, however, the actual number is much
lower)
Kindergartens 0
Elementary schools 0
Secondary modern schools 0
Secondary technical schools 0
Technical schools 0
Grammar schools 0
Theatres 0
Independent nationality
publishing house 1
Majority publishing houses
publishing literature
of national minorities 1
Newspapers, magazines 1 since 1975
1 since Nov.1988
The majority of data on Slovakia have been excerpted from Hitel
magazine, issue 2./1989)". Note. Hitel is Magyar magazine published in
Hungary.
cavsza...@c-netactive.co.za
>
> A couple of months ago I wrote a short article responding to Frank
> Koszorus's article 'Dispelling Illusions', published in the Washington
> Times. My response dealt with the treatment of the Hungarian minority
> in Slovakia, and appeared on HL in April this year. Since then, I
> have come across a lot of interesting material that could share some
> more light
> on the issues discussed in the article. That's the reason why I decided
> to share them with the
> members and readers of the HL. It is my view that in order to
> understand
> the complicated relationship between Slovaks and Hungarians today, it is
> necessary to understand what happened between the two nations in the
> past. I hope you enjoy reading it.
>
> Julia Ondrejcekova (jondre...@hotmail.com)
>
> P.S. In my previous article I was accused of not providing any real
> facts,
> data, and or sources to support my statements. In this article I try to
> do just that.
>
months ago, when it was published by a Slovak website. Do I have to repeat
myself?
The material you alleged as fact is unadulterated propaganda. I would
suggest you contact the Slovak Academy of Sciences for their take on this
book, which is a pastiche of fiction.
I too, want to do research onHungarian-Slovak relations, but when faced
with pure fiction, there is unfortunately nothing more to say.
Please contact me privately or on this site if you want your article
straightened out, at least the most ridiculous statements should be
addressed.
Should you not respond, I will re-post my earlier message - I am not going
to re-do all that work.
Below are some question I have for you:
> Under the dual-monarchy in Austria-Hungary, the Magyars were constantly
> closing down the Slovak schools. By so doing, they deprived the Slovak
> children from receiving education in their mother tongue.
> Here are some examples:
> 1) In 1874, three Slovak special high schools (so called gymnasia) were
> closed by Magyars on the ground that they were Pan-Slav Dens of evil
> which would eventually destroy Magyar culture. All three were founded
> from the donations of the Slovaks.
So your single source states, where are the documents?
> 2) Also, in 1874, the most sublime of Slovak culture institutions,
> Matica Slovenska, was closed down, on the charges that it was taking
> part in political activity, and that it had managed its property
> carelessly. Despite the fact that Matica's property belonged to the
> Slovaks, Magyars confiscated its library, money, and all its museum
> collections. When Polit, a Serbian Deputy protested to Tizsa (then the
> Magyar prime minister) that Matica belonged to the Slovak people and not
> Magyars, Tisza would reply: ' There is no Slovak nation'.
> Work cited: Gilbert L. Oddo, Slovakia and Its People, Robert Speller &
> Sons, Publishers, New York, 1960.
>
So Gilbert Oddo writes, but how do I know any of this is true?
>
>
> The Massacre of Slovaks In The Village of Cernova.
>
> Cernova is a small village in Slovakia where in 1907, as many as 16
> Slovaks were
> shot to death, only because the village community wanted that their
> church be consecrated by the Slovak priest Andrej Hlinka. However, the
> Magyar bishop designated a Magyar priest to do so, which was rejected by
> the village community. This horrible event was published in October 29,
> (1907) article in one of the most prominent dailies in
> the world 'The London Times'. The article reads: 'A sad occurrence is
> reported from Hungary at Csernova, a suburb of the Slovak town of
> Roszahegy, 11 Slovak peasants were yesterday shod dead, and 16, of whom
> five have since died, severely wounded by the Hungarian gendarmes for
> resisting an attempt to consecrate by force a new parish church against
> the will of the inhabitants. The magistrate, without warning, ordered
> the gendarmes toe use their weapons. Four volleys were fired at close
> quarters, 11 peasants being killed outright, including two women and a
> girl.' One of the woman, as reported in the book "Slovak-Magyar
> Relations" by Marko, Martinicky was pregnant.
> Does the above need any comments?
This I would like to see some extra background on - you are evidently
trying to rationalise attempted genocide by Czecho-Slovakia in 1919, as
well as and most spectacularly in 1945/6!
>
>
> The Magyars used violence against the Slovaks through the entire 20 th
> century. It should be noted that the Slovaks, during the course of 50
> years, were occupied by the Magyars as many as five times.
Let's see:
The occupations occurred as follows: in 1919 by Bela Kun
Bela Kun's government's fight was literally a counter-attack against the
Czech (not Slovak) Legion, who were trying to grab as much Hungarian land
as possible. It was impossible to take "Slovak" land, as it had never
existed as a state prior to 1939. The Hungarian Red Army re-took
Kassa/Kosice/Kassau, only to be forced back by Allied threats.
So much for your first claim:
, in
> 1938-annexation of Southern Slovakia and in
In 1939, the Kingdom of Hungary re-annexed territory taken from it in
violation of international laws by Czechoslovakia. Therefore, again, there
was no invasion, but a re-annexation of historic Hungarian land.
1939-invasion of Eastern
> Slovakia- both times by Mikolas Horthy,
What you are calling "Easter Slovakia" is actually Ruthenia/SubCarpathia,
and there were only a handful of Slovaks there, but there are still a lot
of Ruthenes in so-called "South Slovakia". Again, your "facts" are actually
fiction.
in 1944-during the so called
> National Slovak Uprising,
Nonsense. There were no Hungarian units used against the Uprising. The
Germans crushed that alone.
and finally, in 1968-during the invasion of
> the former Czecho-Slovakia by the Warsaw Pact Armies.
Yes, Hungarian forces were made to invade - but did you know that in 1956,
Slovaks volunteered to attack Hungarian freedom?
A substantial
> evidence does exists that in March 1939 Horthy decided to invade and
> take over the rest of Slovakia.
No, this is wrong. The truth is he was asked by Hitler to invade, but he
refused.
Following is a telegram sent by Horthy
> to Hitler, revealing Horthy's plan to overtake Slovakia:
> "Your Excellency-my sincere thanks, I can hardly tell you how happy I am
> because this (Danube) Head Water Region-I dislike using big words of
> vital importance to the life of Hungary. In spite of the fact that our
> recruits have only been serving five weeks, we are going into this
> affair with eager enthusiasm. The dispositions have already been made.
> On Thursday, the sixteenth of this month, a frontier incident will take
> place which will be followed by the big blow on Saturday. I shall never
> forget this proof of friendship, and Your Excellency may rely on my
> unshakable gratitude at all times. Your devoted friend-Horthy."
> Source: Gilbert L. Oddo, Slovakia an Its People, New York, 1960, page
> 248.
>
I have read a lot of correspondence by Admiral Horthy. I would say this
letter is a forgery. I would further call on all members of the Horthy
family to sue this Gilbert Oddo for libel.
>
> Kidnapping of Slovak children. A complete extermination of Slovaks?
Okay, how can a country who has thousands of people with Hungarian names,
like former President Michal Kovac, go on about "kidnapping" of Slovak
children. Hilarious! - Also tragic.
>
> In their attempts to denationalize the Slovaks, the Magyars didn't even
> hesitate to use poor Slovak children to achieve this goal. Gilbert L.
> Oddo
> describes the painful episode of the kidnapping of the Slovak children
> in his book (Slovakia and Its People) on page 145: '
>
I'd like to talk to Mr Oddo!!!!
> "But the most hideous example to denationalize the Slovaks concerns the
> forced removal of Slovak children from their families into pure Magyar
> districts. It began in 1874 and took periodically for 18 years until the
> Magyars could not longer ignore the violent outrage of protest.
What protest, who where, when????
Only
> then was this brutal program halted." Another source, a book called
> Slovak-Magyar
> Relations written by Augustin Marko and Pavol Martinicky, describes the
> forced collections of the Slovak children as follows: "Among the
> repressive measures was collection of orphans and children who were
> forcibly separated from their Slovak parents and taken to the Lower Land
> (present day Hungary) to be distributed among the wealthier farmers and
> others to serve there and for the purposes of Magyarization. The number
> of displaced children is estimated to 60,000'(Augustin Marko, Pavol
> Martinicky, Slovak-Magyar Relations, history and present day in figures.
> Slovak Society for Protection of Democracy and Humanity, Bratislava,
> 1995)
>
This sort of stuff was no doubt loved by Meciar, but now, in a democratic
Slovakia under the rule of law, this sort of sham-history has no place.
This is not the national prayer. This is pure Rumanian propaganda, c'mon,
surely you aren't taken in by such childish trash?
>
> Treatment of the Jews in Slovakia and Hungary during WW2.
>
> In her reply to my article back in April, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker claims
> that the extreme nationalism and dominant ethnocentrism was not unique
> to Hungary only. She suggested that I look at the Slavic pogroms against
> Jews in Russia and Poland and try to come up with an explanation for
> that. Furthermore, she suggested that considering all that was being
> done by the first world nations at the same time, Hungary may qualify
> for national sainthood for its comparative restraint.
Comparitive restraint is a fair judgement.
If Hungary
> qualifies for national sainthood, then Slovakia must have achieved one
> already. Especially, when considering the treatment of the Jews in
> Slovakia, during the war time period (1939-45), under the presidency of
> Mr. Tiso.
20-40,000 Jews fled from Tito's independent Slovakia to Hungary between
1939 and 1941. Note that the number of Jews in Slovakia today are the
lowest in East Europe, the number in Hungary is the highest.
Furthermore, it has to be noted that it was foreigners who
> were responsible for the heaviest anti-Semitic rhetoric propagandized in
> Slovakia. Among them also was the former President of Czecho-Slovakia
> Thomas G. Masaryk, who had following to say about how the Jews should be
> treated in Slovakia:
> "Anti-Semitism in Slovakia is warranted. . . In your land the Jews are
> everywhere, without exception, against the cultural efforts of the
> people. They practice usury. People must be saved from the yoke of
> alcohol and Jewish capital. . . Priests must be national; the Church
> must be anti-Semitic so that the people might free itself economically
> from Jewish capital."
> Source: Kurt Glaser, Czecho-Slovakia a Critical History, p.60.
> It was Masaryk's followers, so-called Hlasists, living in Slovakia, who
> were spreading the anti-Semitism.
What has that to do with Hungary?
>
> Also, it is very important to be aware of the fact that Slovakia, when
> comparing with other countries, such as the Czech Republic (which began
> deportations of the Jews in October 1939),only began deporting the
> Slovak Jews as late as March 1942.
> Kurt Glasser in his book Czecho-Slovakia, A Critical History, has this
> to say about the treatment of the Jews by the Slovak President Tiso
> during the
> war: "At his (Pr. Tiso) initiative , the Slovak Assembly met and passed
> the constitutional law of May 15, 1942, which although ostensibly a
> mandate for the deportation of Jews from Slovakia, actually reduced
> reduced the shipments to a mere trickle.
Yes, and I ask you, who voted against deportation - a Hungarian! No one
else.
Quote me the actual source, book, report, etc.
> Furthermore, it has to be reminded that during the existence of the
> first
> Slovak Republic (1939-1945), not a single person was executed, given the
> fact that it was during the war time. Not a single classical democracy
> in the world has such an excellent record. In Hungary, however, the
> situation was totally different. Joel Brand in his book Desparate
> Mission, Joel Brand Story, published in New York in 1958, has following
> to say about the treatment of the Jews by the Hungarians during WW2.:
Since when is he an authority?
'In 1941, when war broke in Russia, tens of thousands of conscripts
> (Jews) were sent, insufficiently clothed, to the districts occupied by
> the Hungarian troops. Most of them perished. The Jews were impressed
> into a sort of military forced-labor service.
That is true.
> The atrocities that later took place in these labor gangs were to make
> comparable to the camps run by the Gestapo.'
That is rubbish. Their losses where no higher than other Hungarian units,
except locally.
> According to Joel Brand, this is how the Jews-conscripts, were
> treated: "Often whole companies were forced to crawl on their hands and
> knees, with their dinner plates between their teeth, barking like dogs.
> Often, so called shooting parties would be organized. The Jews would be
> forced to climb trees and jump like monkeys from branch to branch. Woe
> betide any who might fall, for the hunters would be waiting for them
> with their bayonets. If they jumped too slowly, the beaters would deal
> with them, with whips and sticks. On other occasions they would be
> thrown, in chains, onto a campfire and burned to death." Brand in his
> book also describes a slaughter of some thousands of Jews in Bachka.
Any corroborating evidence?
> According to the book: "In the spring of 1941, the Hungarian government
> had concluded a treaty of friendship with Yugoslavia, whose government
> was then on friendly terms with the Axis powers. When this government
> fell, the Bachka was occupied by Hungarians troops,
The Bachka had been taken from Hungary in 1918 and auctioned off to
Yugoslavia. Why should we not take our own land back???
who instituted a
> ferocious pogrom on January 6, 1942.
Nonsense. This was a counter-Chetnic sweep which got (badly and tragically)
out of hand.
In the space of a few hours, some
> thousands of Jews were savagely done to death.'
There were some Jews among the victims, but the majority were Serbs, many
of whom in fact had been Chetniks.
This was the only war crime committed by Hungarian forces in WWII. However,
our friend is quiet about the fact that charges were immediately brought
against the instigators!
> The Joel Brand Story also describes mass killings of the Jews in
> Budapest in 1944. The
> Crossed Arrows murder squads ranged through the streets and dragged
> every Jew, or every person looked like a Jew, to the banks of the Danube
> and shot him. Every morning corpses would be found on the pavements of
> the city streets."
And what about the thousands of Hungarians who helped the Jews? Silence
again.
>
> Following statistics reveal the number of the Magyars living in
> Slovakia, and the number of the Slovaks living in Hungary, after 1918,
> and WWII. The
> excerpts are quoted directly from Marko, Martinicky's book
> "Slovak-Magyar
> Relations". The book reads: "The results of the Magyar nationality
> policies in Slovakia stand in
> great contrast with the results of nationality policies enforced upon
> the Slovaks in Hungary.
>
> The Number of Slovaks in Hungary After 1918
>
> According to the 1920 Hungarian official statistics data, 399,170
> citizens spoke the Slovak language, but actually much more Slovaks lived
> in Hungary at that time.
No way were there that many!
>
> The Number of Slovaks in Hungary After World WarII.
>
> The issue of the number of Slovaks in Hungary (after WW II) was raised
> at the Paris Peace Conference in 1946. J. Gyongyosi, Hungarian Prime
> Minister, stated that based on Hungarian statistics only 70,000 Slovaks
> lived in Hungary. V.Clementis, leader of the Czechoslovak delegation.
> stated that the Czechoslovak Repatriation Committee reported about
> 450,000 Slovaks during their several-month stay in Hungary.
I can also make up figures!!
The official
> figure published by the Committee totaled 473,552 Slovaks of which
> 73,273 moved to Slovakia within the framework of the inhabitants
> exchange, hence, 400,279 Slovaks stayed in Hungary after repatriation.
> The last census in Hungary was conducted in 1990. Despite almost a total
> lack of intense solicitation of the nationally-minded Slovaks,
only
> 10,459 citizens had the courage to stand up for their Slovak
> nationality35 (as few as 12,745 citizens stated Slovak to be their
> mother tongue, i.e. by 2,286 more).
Why would they need courage??? They, after all, weren't facing Meciar's
men??? Hungary today - and in 1990 - was a democracy, why are you lying
openly????
> This state is an outcome of the nationality policies of all the
> Hungarian governments without exception, an outcome of intimidation and
> concern about social and existential consequences individuals were faced
> with in the event of claiming Slovak nationality.
You try to point fingers at us to cover up your human rights violations,
but it can't work.
> The Slovaks in Hungary are largely referred to as Magyars that happen to
> speak Slovak rather than citizens of Slovak nationality.
This is patently untrue!
They have
> almost completely lost their Slovak identity.
This *is* true, but not due to any kind of pressure, but rather, due to
Meciar's shutting of the borders so local people can't cross .
Why don't you, instead of lying, repair the bridge at Parkany/Sturovo??
> The representatives of Hungarian governments and the Magyar minority in
> Slovakia justify the diminishing number of Slovaks in Hungary by their
> diffusion.
True enough
However, many Slovaks lived in Hungary close to the border
> (up to Budapest and its environs).
When was this? Not in the last 1100 years, that's for sure.
It should be noted that in former
> Yugoslavia, in Vojvodina, 63,941 citizens claimed Slovak nationality in
> the last census, 36,000 in Croatia, and 20,672 in Rumania, although
> these countries are much farther away from Slovakia and Hungary and
> despite the fact that initially, the number of Slovaks in these
> countries was much lower than in Hungary.
Yes because during the Hungarian KIngdom, they could move freely, something
they can't do now!
In Vojvodina, the Slovaks have
> their schools, a grammar school and the same holds for Rumania (38
> schools in which only history and geography are taught in the Rumanian
> language). Ironically, in Hungary where the number of Slovaks was much
> higher, they did not have any schools with Slovak as the language of
> instruction except for a limited period of time after 1918 and 1945.
They had enough according to their numbers - according to the law.
> These facts indicate that the cause of an almost total extinction of the
> Slovaks in Hungary was forcible assimilation organized and managed by
> all the Hungarian governments.
Rubbish!
>
> The Number of Magyars in Slovakia in 1918 -1938
>
> In the 1921 census conducted in the C.S.R, 637,183 citizens claiming
> Magyar nationality were reported in Slovakia and in 1930, they totaled
> 585,434.
Where did the rest disappear to???
> The representatives of the Magyar minority in Slovakia state in their
> claims filed with international organizations including the Council of
> Europe and various pamphlets disseminated abroad that about a million
> Magyars stayed in Slovakia after the downfall of Historic Hungary in
> 1920 which is a false statement.
No, it is quite accurate.
>
> The Number of Magyars in Slovakia after World War II
>
> In the 1961 census, 518,782 citizens claiming Magyar nationality were
> reported in Slovakia. In 1991, this figure increased to 567,296, which
> is an increase by 48,514 citizens, i.e. 9.35 per cent.
> Also, a high number of Romany (the Gypsies) claim Magyar nationality.
> These citizens live largely in nationally commingled areas in great
> concentrations. It is estimated that about 150,000 Gypsies have claimed
> Magyar nationality. J. Szitkey, Romany leader, estimated and published
> in press that some 200,000 Gypsies claimed Magyar nationality in the
> most recent census.
Why would they do that? The Rroma are a proud people, and always have been.
There was no reason for them to adopt Hungarian disguises unless they were
persecuted by the Slovaks - are you admitting to that?.
> As many as 567,296 Magyars have been reported in Slovakia despite the
> fact that:
> - a lot of citizens of the Magyar nationality perished in World War II
> on the battlefields in the Soviet Union;
> - in 1946 - 1948,74,407 citizens resettled in Hungary within and outside
> the framework of the inhabitants exchange and out of the number of
> citizens that moved to the Czech lands, 20,069 stayed there voluntarily;
Rubbish - this was an attempted genocide. Tell me, when are the Slovak
authorities going to pay compensation for the c. 100,000 Hungarians thrown
off their ancestral lands???
> - out of 35,000 Jews who never returned from concentration camps to
> Slovakia part claimed Magyar nationality and thousands of citizens of
> Magyar nationality were displaced to the Soviet Union when the front
> swept across the country;
This is not a logical or grammatical statement. Please re-write in English,
thank you.
> - a lower birth rate is reported in the Magyar population than in the
> Slovak population.
In Hungary, the number of population between the last two censuses has
> dropped by 336,000
> Slovakia is the only country in the world, and Hungary is no exception,
> in which the number of Magyar population continues to grow.
Well, some good news!!! (If it's true)
>
> And finally, following is a comparison of the number of the schools,
> kindergartens, newspapers, and other services that t he Magyars enjoy
> in
> Slovakia. You can compare it with the services available for the Slovak
> minority living in Hungary. The comparison was made as a part of an open
> letter the representatives of the Slovak minority in Hungary submitted
> to Hungarian government in April 1989.
Hold it. In that time, there had been no time to establish a Hungarian
government, the figures you refer to are irrelevant, as they represent - if
true - the puppet Soviet government of Janos Kadar and his followers.
> Magyars in Slovakia:
>
>
> Population: 559,490
> Kindergartens 386
> Elementary schools 131
> Secondary modern schools 31
> Secondary technical schools 22
> Technical schools 25
> Grammar schools 18
> Theatres 2
> Independent nationality
> publishing house I
> Majority publishing houses
> publishing literature
> of national minorities 6
> Newspapers, magazines 24
People I know in Slovakia would not agree!
>
>
> Slovaks in Hungary:
>
> Population: 110,000 (in reality, however, the actual number is much
> lower)
> Kindergartens 0
> Elementary schools 0
> Secondary modern schools 0
> Secondary technical schools 0
> Technical schools 0
> Grammar schools 0
> Theatres 0
> Independent nationality
> publishing house 1
> Majority publishing houses
> publishing literature
> of national minorities 1
> Newspapers, magazines 1 since 1975
> 1 since Nov.1988
>
>
>
> The majority of data on Slovakia have been excerpted from Hitel
> magazine, issue 2./1989)". Note. Hitel is Magyar magazine published in
> Hungary.
Well, now that you've published a lot of ultranationalist propaganda, let's
see your historical and current facts. For instance. why don't you use this
forum to call on the Hungarian government to reveal the whereabouts of your
tens of thousands of "invisible" Slovaks!!!
Keep in touch, but next time, please stay within normal factual parameters
as practiced in the West, rather than the above pamphleteering!!!
Ciao!
Chris
csaba
(Among many other things)
My response dealt with the treatment of the Hungarian minority
in Slovakia, and appeared on HL in April this year. Since then, I
have come across a lot of interesting material that could share some
more light
on the issues discussed in the article. That's the reason why I decided
to share them with the
members and readers of the HL. It is my view that in order to
understand
the complicated relationship between Slovaks and Hungarians today, it is
necessary to understand what happened between the two nations in the
past. I hope you enjoy reading it.
According to your post, this relationship has never been complicated at
all, dear Julia!
Your "equation" seems to be quite simple: Hungarians = villains forever
Amen, Slovaks = past victims/presently gracious majority! The only
problem is, that whatever truth content your article might have, gets
completely voided by your blatantly slanted presentation and reasoning.
Please tell me, what do you *really* want to accomplish with this
kind of writing? Maybe just trolling around a bit?
Regards,
Csaba
Sandor Balogh
It seems you are as hard a Slovak nationalist, as some of us are hard
Hungarian nationalist. The only difference seems to be that we have facts,
you present fiction. But this is not my main point.
Now that reason seems to have won over emotions (hate) in Slovakia, and
Slovakia might be on her way to be invited to join Europe under her new
government, why is it necessary to bring up age old, long discredited lies,
and also, why is it necessary on the part of some frustrated and provoked
(by your letter) Hungarians, to waste time on this?
Do you want your beloved Slovakia to remain the pariah of Europe, as it had
been under her previous government? Do you long back the "good old days"
when Hungaraians were open game for discrimination and persecution? Or
perhaps instead of joining the West, you would rather have Slovakia join
Russia, the heir to the glorious Sovjet Union? Does Pan-Slavism suit you
better than Pan-Europism where civilized behavior is the expected norm?
Just what was your purpose with your hate letter? If you wanted to provoke
us, you got it. So please count your blessings and follow your hero, Mr.
Meciar, to the well deserved dust bin of History.
Sandor Balogh