3D Printed Record

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Michael Haney

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Dec 24, 2012, 12:41:40 PM12/24/12
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The audio quality is lower than MP3s right now, but this is just a proof-of-concept showing that records can be made using 3D printing. There are a lot of advantages to this once the process has been perfected. Unsigned bands would be able to make records of their music without needing to go through a middleman, and consumers would be able to make their own records. Eventually, it might be possible to make LPs using 3D printing.

http://www.instructables.com/id/3D-Printed-Record/

David Gerard

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Dec 24, 2012, 1:33:55 PM12/24/12
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On 24 December 2012 17:41, Michael Haney <thez...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The audio quality is lower than MP3s right now, but this is just a
> proof-of-concept showing that records can be made using 3D printing. There
> are a lot of advantages to this once the process has been perfected.
> Unsigned bands would be able to make records of their music without needing
> to go through a middleman, and consumers would be able to make their own
> records. Eventually, it might be possible to make LPs using 3D printing.


Nice one! Blogged:
http://rocknerd.co.uk/2012/12/24/record-your-voice-amazing-novelty/


- d.

Ignazio Palmisano

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Dec 24, 2012, 3:50:40 PM12/24/12
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On 24 December 2012 17:41, Michael Haney <thez...@gmail.com> wrote:
Uhm it's cute but I fail to see why it's worth. There is a long
standing dispute on whether LP are better than CD quality, and another
one on whether high bitrate MP3s are worse than CD quality in any
detectable way - me, I think high bitrate is as good as CD, and LPs
are only better because of sentimental value, but that's a different
story.

Here, the result is /not/ an analogically produced artifact - it comes
from electronic elaboration, therefore how can it be better than the
original recording? If the original is digital - and I assume it
/must/ be - then presenting it in this analog form can only lose
information.

About bands, they have been able to print vinyls for ages, in small
volumes - they are actually cheaper than CDs for small volumes, I was
told by a guy who used to play in a small band - and it would be much
easier for a band to produce MP3s than these anyway. I've heard a few
who are trying alternative selling channels, i.e., download a DRM free
MP3, fancy it? Pay something back directly to the artist. I bought an
album this way, of a pianist playing rock and metal on youtube :-)
I.

David Gerard

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Dec 24, 2012, 4:03:41 PM12/24/12
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On 24 December 2012 20:50, Ignazio Palmisano
<ipalmisan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Uhm it's cute but I fail to see why it's worth.


BECAUSE YOU CAN, of course. There is no better reason.


- d.

Ignazio Palmisano

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Dec 24, 2012, 4:10:00 PM12/24/12
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:-P I said it's cute.

BECAUSE YOU NEED TO is, in general, a more compelling reason ;-)
I.

>
> - d.

Michael Haney

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Dec 24, 2012, 4:13:31 PM12/24/12
to bikeshed
In the past few years vinyl records and LPs have been making a comeback. There is enough demand for them that the recording studios have started selling them again, and adding in all of the extras that made LPs so collectable in the past. Never underestimate buying the power of Audiophiles.

Used to be pretty hard to find a turntable after CDs took over, but now try not to find at least one or two at Best Buy. 

--
Michael "TheZorch" Haney
https://sites.google.com/site/thezorch/

"Faith is not faith in anything. Faith is the trust, without any proof or supporting evidence, that all is well and that all will be well."  
-Q'uo

"When you change the way you look at something, what you look at changes."  
-Ancient Wisdom

Free Your PC, Open Your Mind www.ubuntu.com

Ignazio Palmisano

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Dec 24, 2012, 4:26:41 PM12/24/12
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On 24 December 2012 21:13, Michael Haney <thez...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 3:03 PM, David Gerard <dge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 24 December 2012 20:50, Ignazio Palmisano
>> <ipalmisan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Uhm it's cute but I fail to see why it's worth.
>>
>>
>> BECAUSE YOU CAN, of course. There is no better reason.
>>
>
> In the past few years vinyl records and LPs have been making a comeback.
> There is enough demand for them that the recording studios have started
> selling them again, and adding in all of the extras that made LPs so
> collectable in the past. Never underestimate buying the power of
> Audiophiles.
>
> Used to be pretty hard to find a turntable after CDs took over, but now try
> not to find at least one or two at Best Buy.

My point is that the 3d printer is at the end of an information
channel that includes a lot of digital transformations. It /cannot/
recreate a better sound than any of the digital layers between the
original audio and the finished product.

Audiophiles might have a point - I don't know, my ears are not good
enough to tell the difference. But that point is only valid if the LP
master is cut directly from the audio input, i.e., if the whole chain
is analog, and shorter than the other one.

To put it another way, if the input to the lathe, or whatever is the
tool that builds the master to print LP, is the same input that goes
to the thingy that ends up making the MP3, then /maybe/ there is a
difference in quality. If the lathe is after the analog to digital
conversion, rebuilding the analog can only become worse...

I.

Robert Holtzman

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Dec 24, 2012, 6:31:07 PM12/24/12
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On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 09:26:41PM +0000, Ignazio Palmisano wrote:
> On 24 December 2012 21:13, Michael Haney <thez...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 3:03 PM, David Gerard <dge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 24 December 2012 20:50, Ignazio Palmisano
> >> <ipalmisan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Uhm it's cute but I fail to see why it's worth.
> >>
> >>
> >> BECAUSE YOU CAN, of course. There is no better reason.
> >>
> >
> > In the past few years vinyl records and LPs have been making a comeback.
> > There is enough demand for them that the recording studios have started
> > selling them again, and adding in all of the extras that made LPs so
> > collectable in the past. Never underestimate buying the power of
> > Audiophiles.
> >
> > Used to be pretty hard to find a turntable after CDs took over, but now try
> > not to find at least one or two at Best Buy.
>
> My point is that the 3d printer is at the end of an information
> channel that includes a lot of digital transformations. It /cannot/
> recreate a better sound than any of the digital layers between the
> original audio and the finished product.

2nd Law of Thermodynamics (approx): entropy never decreases.

>
> Audiophiles might have a point - I don't know, my ears are not good
> enough to tell the difference. But that point is only valid if the LP
> master is cut directly from the audio input, i.e., if the whole chain
> is analog, and shorter than the other one.

The Brit audiophiles used to use "musicality" to describe the difference
between vinyl and CD. I don't think they knew what it meant either.

--
Bob Holtzman
If you think you're getting free lunch,
check the price of the beer.
Key ID: 8D549279

Cybe R. Wizard

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Dec 24, 2012, 6:52:31 PM12/24/12
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On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:50:40 +0000
Ignazio Palmisano <ipalmisan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 24 December 2012 17:41, Michael Haney <thez...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The audio quality is lower than MP3s right now, but this is just a
> > proof-of-concept showing that records can be made using 3D
> > printing. There are a lot of advantages to this once the process
> > has been perfected. Unsigned bands would be able to make records of
> > their music without needing to go through a middleman, and
> > consumers would be able to make their own records. Eventually, it
> > might be possible to make LPs using 3D printing.
> >
> > http://www.instructables.com/id/3D-Printed-Record/
>
> Uhm it's cute but I fail to see why it's worth. There is a long
> standing dispute on whether LP are better than CD quality, and another
> one on whether high bitrate MP3s are worse than CD quality in any
> detectable way - me, I think high bitrate is as good as CD, and LPs
> are only better because of sentimental value, but that's a different
> story.

I'm pretty sure that vinyl recordings will outlast CDs/DVDs.
<http://lostvinyl.com/what-is-the-shelf-life-of-vinyl-records/>
<http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa11.htm>

<snip other considerations>

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Nice computers don't go down.
Larry Niven, Steven Barnes
"The Barsoom Project"

Cybe R. Wizard

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Dec 24, 2012, 6:53:49 PM12/24/12
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On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:50:40 +0000
Ignazio Palmisano <ipalmisan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Uhm it's cute but I fail to see why it's worth.

That's what they said about the Wright brothers' air bicycle, too.

Cybe R. Wizard

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Dec 24, 2012, 6:56:15 PM12/24/12
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On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 21:26:41 +0000
Ignazio Palmisano <ipalmisan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> To put it another way, if the input to the lathe, or whatever is the
> tool that builds the master to print LP, is the same input that goes
> to the thingy that ends up making the MP3, then /maybe/ there is a
> difference in quality. If the lathe is after the analog to digital
> conversion, rebuilding the analog can only become worse...

That is a big for sure. Imagine vector graphic made from raster
graphics originals. Some small thing will be lacking, namely detail.

Ric Moore

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Dec 24, 2012, 10:48:48 PM12/24/12
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I would think that you could burn a CD at 1/100th the cost. Ric

--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

Ric Moore

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Dec 24, 2012, 10:50:51 PM12/24/12
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It would be more practical to print Tupperware... but that's just my
opinion. <smirks> Ric

Ric Moore

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Dec 24, 2012, 10:54:35 PM12/24/12
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On 12/24/2012 06:31 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:

> The Brit audiophiles used to use "musicality" to describe the difference
> between vinyl and CD. I don't think they knew what it meant either.

Like tube amps, they are "lossy" enough to sound good. I bet if you
could introduce pops and hiss, the "audiophiles" would be fooled by a
high quality digital recording. Ric

Ric Moore

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Dec 24, 2012, 10:55:24 PM12/24/12
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On 12/24/2012 06:53 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:50:40 +0000
> Ignazio Palmisano <ipalmisan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Uhm it's cute but I fail to see why it's worth.
>
> That's what they said about the Wright brothers' air bicycle, too.
You forgot Mister Crapper's device. :) Ric

Ignazio Palmisano

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Dec 25, 2012, 3:48:52 AM12/25/12
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On 24 December 2012 23:31, Robert Holtzman <hol...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 09:26:41PM +0000, Ignazio Palmisano wrote:
>> On 24 December 2012 21:13, Michael Haney <thez...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 3:03 PM, David Gerard <dge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 24 December 2012 20:50, Ignazio Palmisano
>> >> <ipalmisan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Uhm it's cute but I fail to see why it's worth.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> BECAUSE YOU CAN, of course. There is no better reason.
>> >>
>> >
>> > In the past few years vinyl records and LPs have been making a comeback.
>> > There is enough demand for them that the recording studios have started
>> > selling them again, and adding in all of the extras that made LPs so
>> > collectable in the past. Never underestimate buying the power of
>> > Audiophiles.
>> >
>> > Used to be pretty hard to find a turntable after CDs took over, but now try
>> > not to find at least one or two at Best Buy.
>>
>> My point is that the 3d printer is at the end of an information
>> channel that includes a lot of digital transformations. It /cannot/
>> recreate a better sound than any of the digital layers between the
>> original audio and the finished product.
>
> 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (approx): entropy never decreases.
>

Information theory has an equivalent principle - the information
content can, at best, stay the same in a perfect channel - otherwise,
it decreases.

>>
>> Audiophiles might have a point - I don't know, my ears are not good
>> enough to tell the difference. But that point is only valid if the LP
>> master is cut directly from the audio input, i.e., if the whole chain
>> is analog, and shorter than the other one.
>
> The Brit audiophiles used to use "musicality" to describe the difference
> between vinyl and CD. I don't think they knew what it meant either.

eheh
I.

Ignazio Palmisano

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Dec 25, 2012, 3:50:35 AM12/25/12
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On 24 December 2012 23:56, Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 21:26:41 +0000
> Ignazio Palmisano <ipalmisan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> To put it another way, if the input to the lathe, or whatever is the
>> tool that builds the master to print LP, is the same input that goes
>> to the thingy that ends up making the MP3, then /maybe/ there is a
>> difference in quality. If the lathe is after the analog to digital
>> conversion, rebuilding the analog can only become worse...
>
> That is a big for sure. Imagine vector graphic made from raster
> graphics originals. Some small thing will be lacking, namely detail.
>

Yes, and detail is what some claim is the difference between analog
and digital. Me, I'm full of doubts.
I.

Cybe R. Wizard

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Dec 25, 2012, 8:04:41 AM12/25/12
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On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 22:55:24 -0500
Ric Moore <waywa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12/24/2012 06:53 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:50:40 +0000
> > Ignazio Palmisano <ipalmisan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Uhm it's cute but I fail to see why it's worth.
> >
> > That's what they said about the Wright brothers' air bicycle, too.
> You forgot Mister Crapper's device. :) Ric
>
Oh, I hope not; this is my last pair of clean pants.

Ric Moore

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Dec 25, 2012, 2:15:53 PM12/25/12
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On 12/25/2012 08:04 AM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 22:55:24 -0500
> Ric Moore <waywa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 12/24/2012 06:53 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:50:40 +0000
>>> Ignazio Palmisano <ipalmisan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Uhm it's cute but I fail to see why it's worth.
>>>
>>> That's what they said about the Wright brothers' air bicycle, too.
>> You forgot Mister Crapper's device. :) Ric
>>
> Oh, I hope not; this is my last pair of clean pants.
I feel your pain, I'm doing laundry today, so I'll have a clean pair of
pants and underwear for my dinner at Mom's. I might even shave! :) Ric

Michael Haney

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Dec 25, 2012, 2:48:12 PM12/25/12
to bikeshed
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Ric Moore <waywa...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/25/2012 08:04 AM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 22:55:24 -0500
Ric Moore <waywa...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/24/2012 06:53 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:50:40 +0000
Ignazio Palmisano <ipalmisan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Uhm it's cute but I fail to see why it's worth.

That's what they said about the Wright brothers' air bicycle, too.
You forgot Mister Crapper's device. :) Ric

Oh, I hope not; this is my last pair of clean pants.
I feel your pain, I'm doing laundry today, so I'll have a clean pair of pants and underwear for my dinner at Mom's. I might even shave! :) Ric



We've one of those high efficiency front-loading washers and driers. They've got more buttons than the Enterprise's bridge!
When the washer goes into a spin cycle the whole trailer shakes, and the thing sounds like a jet engine throttling up to take off.
You look inside throught the clear dome on the door and its spinning so fast you can barely see it.
It uses very little water, not like the traditional washer we used to have with an agitator that spun back and forth.
This just has a big spinning drum, and when its in operation it locks the door so you can't open it. 

Ric Moore

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Dec 25, 2012, 5:13:00 PM12/25/12
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On 12/25/2012 02:48 PM, Michael Haney wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Ric Moore <waywa...@gmail.com
> <mailto:waywa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 12/25/2012 08:04 AM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>
> On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 22:55:24 -0500
> Ric Moore <waywa...@gmail.com <mailto:waywa...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> On 12/24/2012 06:53 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>
> On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:50:40 +0000
> Ignazio Palmisano <ipalmisan...@gmail.com
> <mailto:ipalmisan...@gmail.com>__> wrote:
>
> Uhm it's cute but I fail to see why it's worth.
>
>
> That's what they said about the Wright brothers' air
> bicycle, too.
>
> You forgot Mister Crapper's device. :) Ric
>
> Oh, I hope not; this is my last pair of clean pants.
>
> I feel your pain, I'm doing laundry today, so I'll have a clean pair
> of pants and underwear for my dinner at Mom's. I might even shave!
> :) Ric
>
>
>
> We've one of those high efficiency front-loading washers and driers.
> They've got more buttons than the Enterprise's bridge!
> When the washer goes into a spin cycle the whole trailer shakes, and the
> thing sounds like a jet engine throttling up to take off.
> You look inside throught the clear dome on the door and its spinning so
> fast you can barely see it.
> It uses very little water, not like the traditional washer we used to
> have with an agitator that spun back and forth.
> This just has a big spinning drum, and when its in operation it locks
> the door so you can't open it.


O worked on the 800 lb capacity big brothers to those front loaders. 4"
water supply lines at 80 psi could fill one in a hurry. It took a 25hp
440 volt6 electric motor to spin one up into extract, after it rose off
the floor on air pillows. Fun stuff!! :) Ric
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