re Looking on with responsibility
Dagz
Goulburn (NSW) railway photographer and author of 40 years, Leon Oberg, has
asked me to place the following on Newsgroups in answer to Barry Wilding,
Manager Operating Practices, Australian Southern Railroad's comments re
"closure of coupling cocks on 5AM3.
His piece is as follows...
Something does not ring true with Barry Wilding, Manager Operating
Practices, Australian Southern Railroad's comments (22 May, 1999, re
'looking-on with responsibility'). It is a re-emerging case of blatant
railway administration enthusiast bashing - this time with sinister
overtones and threats of trespass etc?
There is so much doubt in Mr Wilding's piece, particularly when he says
"witnesses may have seen" etc. Add this too his big stick threats of..."some
railfans have already found out that ASR does not tolerate persons
trespassing," etc etc.
What proof does he have that rail fans were indeed on hand to witness said
tap closing incident on 5AM3? Of more concern to thinking rail enthusiasts
is Mr Walding's guarded (I believe garbled) attempts at suggesting - even
remotely - that a trespassing rail fan actually interfered with the train in
question. If he believes this to be the case he would have to have evidence
so why not lay charges for the many railfans that I circulate with would not
want these alleged types of vandals part of the railfan fraternity either.
However, I believe far too many people in railway administration today like
to lump instances of theft, stone throwing, dangerous behaviour, skylarking
and a host of other ills on railfans. They forget others trespass on railway
lines too - vandals, people drugged, drunk, taking short cuts, graffitists -
to instance but a few.
In all of my 40 years experience rail fanning in many states of Australia -
including South Australia, I have seen miniscule evidence of dangerous
illegal activity by rail enthusiasts (apart from trespass for the purpose of
gaining photographs and history notes).
Talk of totally isolating railfans from trains and charging people for
trespass who might be innocently photographing them majestically roaring
by - or enjoying their hobby - are totally over the top and possibly
illustrate the stresses private companies are under as they attempt to run
their trains in a deregulated marketplace. Historically, if it had not been
for many railfans who at least have given some voice in a political climate
structured to support road lobbies, there would have been fewer railways in
this nation for privateers to purchase and certainly much less business to
be done.
Instead of going out charging rail fans for trespass, Mr Walding and like
minded rail administrators should encompass and support all of the friends
they can. In the days of Government-owned rail systems, a tremendous
camaraderie existed between many rail fans and administrators, often from
the Chief Executive or Commissioners down. The administrators and the police
for that matter, were usually realistic enough to instantly understand the
difference between vandals and rail fans, graffiti artists to 'harmless
special interest' trespassers.
I do symphathise with ASR and Mr Walding's quite genuine concerns with the
circumstances surrounding 5AM3 on May 20 and detest those alleged actions.
But I abhor the connotations that even remotely suggest the railfans that I
know who roam the nation in thirst of those terrific photographs or history
ditties that get published on a frequent basis, might be responsible for
said incident - even as a witness. ASR might care to remember that one day
it might want to use some of that material gathered by some very expert rail
photographers and historians (rather than import people from the USA at
great expense). Guess what - given too much heat - the material might be
denied them.
Footnote: If 5AM3 was interfered with at the south end of Mile End loop,
correct me if I am wrong but doesn't this come under the jurisdiction of
Australian Track Access Corporation and NOT one of the few properties
actually owned by ASR? LO
< Tell >
>
> Goulburn (NSW) railway photographer and author of 40 years, Leon Oberg, has
> asked me to place the following on Newsgroups in answer to Barry Wilding,
> Manager Operating Practices, Australian Southern Railroad's comments re
> "closure of coupling cocks on 5AM3.
> His piece is as follows...
[big snip]
Whatever Leon thinks about ASR's complaint, I have one
or three queries.
ASR have every right to protect their property, that is
not me saying that, but the law of the land.
I do not know whether somebody is having "a go" at ASR
or whether they have an irresponsible employee.
It's a pity that Leon, who has taken some of the great
photo's of NSW railways and others, does not join us.
OK you can get "wounded" from time to time, I have and
I admit it. This is 1999. The age of electronic
exchange. Come on you lurkers with mobs of tales and
experiences, join in, we have a common interest.
----Terry Burton
<< remove OZ for Email reply.>>
David Johnson
> OK you can get "wounded" from time to time, I have and
> I admit it. This is 1999. The age of electronic
> exchange. Come on you lurkers with mobs of tales and
> experiences, join in, we have a common interest.
Ok... Way back when I was young, I went to Port Kembla, and asked at the main
gate if I could walk around BHP property and take photos of their extensive rail
system. They said no, so I climbed off a bridge and spent the rest of the day
photting and cab-riding around BHP without permission.
--
David Johnson
CityRail Guard
trai...@ozemail.com.au
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~trainman/
graeme
David Johnson <trai...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:374D587D...@ozemail.com.au...
Belgrave,some time between 1947 and 1952 with a couple of mates, they where
keen hikers and train fans as well.
Unfortunately for them it was against the law to walk on the track and they
where apprehended by men in coats and hats, taken to the station and had
names and addresses taken.
The end result, a two schilling and sixpence fine for each lad and they
where told they now would have a "police record"
Can you just picture the same thing happening today up in the Dandenongs.
Graeme
Ps Sorry I can not be more specific with the dates and locations or the
names of the men in coats and hats,Its to protect the living.;-)
Gayford
home"
Cheers
Rod Gayford
Dagz <da...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message
news:7ij6jm$jnc$2...@merki.connect.com.au...
>
> Goulburn (NSW) railway photographer and author of 40 years, Leon Oberg,
has
> asked me to place the following on Newsgroups in answer to Barry Wilding,
> Manager Operating Practices, Australian Southern Railroad's comments re
> "closure of coupling cocks on 5AM3.
> His piece is as follows...
>
>
Derick Wuen
David Johnson wrote in message <374D587D...@ozemail.com.au>...
>< Tell > wrote:
>
>> OK you can get "wounded" from time to time, I have and
>> I admit it. This is 1999. The age of electronic
>> exchange. Come on you lurkers with mobs of tales and
>> experiences, join in, we have a common interest.
>
>Ok... Way back when I was young, I went to Port Kembla, and asked at the
main
>gate if I could walk around BHP property and take photos of their extensive
rail
>system. They said no, so I climbed off a bridge and spent the rest of the
day
>photting and cab-riding around BHP without permission.
>
>--
>David Johnson
>CityRail Guard
>trai...@ozemail.com.au
>http://www.ozemail.com.au/~trainman/
>
40 years of being escorted off the premises
(1) 1958 Enfield, by "railway dicks" from the employee-only pedestrian
overbridge over the "rotten row" tracks where there was a priceless
collection of 57, 58, 36, 26, 17 classes, not to mention many Thow
standards.
Solution: returned the next weekend and avoided the footbridge.
(2) 1987 Eisenhower Bvd (I think) Washington DC Metro, by the Metro
rail-police (BIG afro-americans with 3ft truncheons and 6-shooters).
Opposite metro station was ex RF&P Alexandria passenger depot at the
southern approaches of ex RF&P Potomac Yard. Sitting in the depot was N&W A
1218, in steam. A fellow rail enthusiast and I were the only ones who
remained on the platform, whilst the casual onlookers had spilled onto the
tracks..... 3-rail with 660 voltsDC, and high-frequency service. No way
could I convince police that (a) I didn't do it and (b) I was just a poor
boy from Australia come all this way to drool over the big malley, albeit
from the safety of the platform.
Solution: wait off premises until police caught next train back to DC, and
reenter platform.
(3) 1988 Redfern, Sydney. Videoing pm rush from southern end deemed to be an
offence against some by-law which had been passed whilst I was out of
country. Admin apparently sensitive about media exposes of slackness of rail
employees. Permission was now needed for photography from railway premises,
and it would not be given if asked.
Solution: caught next train to Mac town and did it there, possibly a better
location.
Apart from "Sleeping on Trains" journeys to Oatley car sheds, 3 hits in 40
years is not so bad, and only one was a technical (but safe) trespass. My
usual style is to inform railway employees as to what I am doing, and then
do it. I don't seek permission. They either think its harmless or else I am
a complete nutter to be left alone as possibly dangerous. Seems to work in
all states, NZ, USA, UK, France, Germany.
But some of my pals have hair-raising yarns about confrontations with Red
army in China, British army in N. Ireland, guerilla army in S. America,
whilst doing their thing on railway premises.
David Proctor
this) I have included the full post - my reply is at the very bottom.
Derick Wuen wrote in message <375a1...@iridium.webone.com.au>...
I believe a similar thing is happening in the United Kingdom now, with
Railtrack not allowing photography on their stations (they do not run many
statiosn, only the really big ones!)
I read somewhere (Modern Railways, or possibly RAIL) that photograpers were
being refused permission to photograph, even when they had valid tickets
(and thus every right to be where they were) and if they did not seek
permission they were being harrassed.
DaveP
Gary Jones
<snip>
> I believe a similar thing is happening in the United Kingdom now, with
> Railtrack not allowing photography on their stations (they do not run many
> statiosn, only the really big ones!)
Not true (but can't answer for Northern Ireland).
> I read somewhere (Modern Railways, or possibly RAIL) that photograpers were
> being refused permission to photograph, even when they had valid tickets
> (and thus every right to be where they were) and if they did not seek
> permission they were being harrassed.
The only place where I have been questioned is Liverpool Street station
in London, many years ago.
If you read RAIL, treat all information as suspect !
--
Gazza
---------------------------------------------------
* WHAT ABOUT THE KURDISH TURKS? STOP NATO BOMBING *
---------------------------------------------------
David Proctor
>If you read RAIL, treat all information as suspect !
I have heard that - I no longer visit uk.railway (the noise ratio is too
high - well, too noisy for someone with a passing interest in UK railways,
as opposed to someone who lives there) and the last time I was there, it
always being referred to with backward spelling.
DaveP
David Johnson
> I read somewhere (Modern Railways, or possibly RAIL) that photograpers were
> being refused permission to photograph, even when they had valid tickets
> (and thus every right to be where they were) and if they did not seek
> permission they were being harrassed.
Sounds like Queensland Rail.
JohnMcCandless
David Johnson <trai...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in article
<375BD675...@ozemail.com.au>...
> David Proctor wrote:
>
> > I read somewhere (Modern Railways, or possibly RAIL) that photograpers
were
> > being refused permission to photograph, even when they had valid
tickets
> > (and thus every right to be where they were) and if they did not seek
> > permission they were being harrassed.
>
> Sounds like Queensland Rail.
>
Are you speaking from experience?
John McCandless
Cloncurry NWQ
David Johnson
Yes. I have been herded off nearly every suburban station in Brisbane. I got
sick of it after a while, and sought and got permision from Level 14 Railcentre
1 to take photos.
Chris Stratton
news:01beb19b$c976b5c0$1a1c...@johnmc.topend.com.au...
>
>
> David Johnson <trai...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in article
> <375BD675...@ozemail.com.au>...
> > David Proctor wrote:
> >
> > > I read somewhere (Modern Railways, or possibly RAIL) that photograpers
> were
> > > being refused permission to photograph, even when they had valid
> tickets
> > > (and thus every right to be where they were) and if they did not seek
> > > permission they were being harrassed.
> >
> > Sounds like Queensland Rail.
> >
>
> Are you speaking from experience?
>
> Cloncurry NWQ
>
Back in about 1983 I was taking photos at Roma St on the access road to the
goods yard which was where the new tunnel portal is now. I was halfway up
the hill from the guard in his little box at the gate, but he still walked
up the hill to where I was and told me to bugger off.
But in July last year I was photographing from footbridges and stations all
day at Yeerongpilly, Corinda, Park Road,Dutton Park and South Brisbane and
had no problems at all. I had a valid ticket but no one approached me at
all.
--
Regards,
Chris Stratton
Wollongong, NSW, Australia
Remove NOSPAM if replying.
John Cleverdon
> *SNIP*
> > >
> > > > I read somewhere (Modern Railways, or possibly RAIL) that photograpers
> > were
> > > > being refused permission to photograph, even when they had valid
> > tickets
> > > > (and thus every right to be where they were) and if they did not seek
> > > > permission they were being harrassed.
> > >
> > > Sounds like Queensland Rail.
> > >
> >
> > Are you speaking from experience?
> >
> > John McCandless
> > Cloncurry NWQ
> >
> Back in about 1983 I was taking photos at Roma St on the access road to the
> goods yard which was where the new tunnel portal is now. I was halfway up
> the hill from the guard in his little box at the gate, but he still walked
> up the hill to where I was and told me to bugger off.
> But in July last year I was photographing from footbridges and stations all
> day at Yeerongpilly, Corinda, Park Road,Dutton Park and South Brisbane and
> had no problems at all. I had a valid ticket but no one approached me at
> all.
While visiting Brisbane in 1993, my brother and I took many photos at stations
around the city (with valid tickets of course), and I do not recall getting
warned off. I also managed a couple through the front window of a 2000 class
railmotor while going out to Gatton.
John
--
John Cleverdon, B.App.Sc. (Cartography), AMMSIA
Amateur astronomer & Railway enthusiast | Essendon - 1999 AFL premiers
Dromana, Victoria, Australia | Phone: 03 5987 1535 (H)
E-mail: jo...@cdi.com.au
The Locomotive Page: http://www.railpage.org.au/loco
Astronomical Society of Frankston: http://www.cdi.com.au/~johnc/asf.htm
JohnMcCandless
> > >
> >
> > Are you speaking from experience?
>
I got
> sick of it after a while, and sought and got permision from Level 14
Railcentre
> 1 to take photos.
>
> --
sign
in as a 'visitor', because I have no way of proving i'm an employee. [For
some
strange reason, QR staff in Cloncurry don't get photo IDs...... ;-)]
Johnmc
Cloncurry NW QLD
Roderick Smith
hadn't even attempted to photograph it. I was released in time to continue
my itinerary, but had missed dinner.
I was arrested in Bolivia for photographing a train at a station from the
window of my own train. I was escorted from my once-a-seek train to the
local military barracks. Fortunately, I was released in time to continue
on my train (and retained my film).
I was also challenged by security guards at GMH Elizabeth when
photographing my train from the platform (at that stage, the last of the
Adelaide step-down wooden ones). They stated that the station was private
property, even if I hadn't passed through the security fence. They did
confiscate my film. Apparently I had photographed a stockpile of
unrealeased new models in the background. My reassurance that I had
thought the cars were Falcons got me nowhere. The company processed the
film, saw that there was nothing visible of its new cars, and mailed it
back to me.
Conversely, on my trip from China into Mongolia in 1983 I was encouraged to
wander around the bogie-exchange depot at the border and photograph
carriages in mid air.
--
Regards
Roderick Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
Derick Wuen <cul...@webone.com.au> wrote in article
John Cleverdon
> I was arrested for riding a tram in Osijek (northern Yugoslavia) in 1980; I
> hadn't even attempted to photograph it. I was released in time to continue
> my itinerary, but had missed dinner.
>
> I was arrested in Bolivia for photographing a train at a station from the
> window of my own train. I was escorted from my once-a-seek train to the
> local military barracks. Fortunately, I was released in time to continue
> on my train (and retained my film).
>
> I was also challenged by security guards at GMH Elizabeth when
> photographing my train from the platform (at that stage, the last of the
> Adelaide step-down wooden ones). They stated that the station was private
> property, even if I hadn't passed through the security fence. They did
> confiscate my film. Apparently I had photographed a stockpile of
> unrealeased new models in the background. My reassurance that I had
> thought the cars were Falcons got me nowhere. The company processed the
> film, saw that there was nothing visible of its new cars, and mailed it
> back to me.
>
> Conversely, on my trip from China into Mongolia in 1983 I was encouraged to
> wander around the bogie-exchange depot at the border and photograph
> carriages in mid air.
>
> --
> Regards
> Roderick Smith
> Rail News Victoria Editor
>
> * SNIP *
One of my secondary college teachers (also a railway enthusiast) was on holiday
over in Greece, several years ago now, and decided to get some photos of the
trains. Apparently, the military didn't like this because of the use they made
of the railways.
John
--
John Cleverdon, B.App.Sc. (Cartography), AMMSIA
Amateur astronomer & Railway enthusiast | Essendon - 1999 AFL premiers
Dromana, Victoria, Australia | Phone: 03 5987 1535 (H)
E-mail: jo...@cdi.com.au
The Locomotive Page: http://www.railpage.org.au/loco
Astronomical Society of Frankston: http://www.cdi.com.au/~johnc/asf.htm
Railway Map of Victoria: http://www.cdi.com.au/~johnc/railmap.htm