9000 bike riders fined for breaking road rules
OzCableguy
9000 bike riders fined for breaking road rules
Hannah Martin
March 30, 2008 12:00am
ABOUT 9000 cyclists were fined last year for breaking road rules, but
Queensland Transport has dismissed calls to license riders.
More than 680 cyclists were injured so severely in accidents last year they
were taken to hospital emergency departments.
More than 100 people were taken to hospital after being hit by cyclists,
Queensland Injury Surveillance Unit research shows.
Almost 59,000 Queensland cyclists have been fined for breaking road rules
since 2003, but a Queensland Transport spokesman said a licensing system
would be too costly and would not stop injuries or rule-breaking. "This
would impose very significant additional costs on the community and
government, and the benefits would be negligible," he said.
Calls for bicycle licences come as the Victorian Government vows to get
tough on rogue cyclists who cause death or serious injury to others.
Proposed new laws mean cyclists could face penalties, including jail,
similar to those given to drivers guilty of culpable driving.
Brisbane Mater Children's Hospital emergency pediatrician Dr Ruth Barker,
from the injury surveillance unit, said she expected bike-related injuries
to increase as more people commuted on bikes. Head, upper limb and
collarbone injuries were most common.
Dr Barker said shared pathways or roads were often a problem and speed
contributed to many bike accidents.
"Children particularly are very prone to meandering along paths, not
sticking to one side, making it hard for cyclists to avoid them."
Near-collisions around Brisbane are common, according to cyclists and
pedestrians on city and suburban shared bike/pathways, including the
riverfront along Coronation Drive, Milton. Billy Witana, 46, rides to work
in Northgate from his home in Algester each day.
"Sometimes (pedestrians) get in a bit of a daze and stray out in front of
you," Mr Witana said.
But riding on the shared paths was probably safer than the roads, he said.
The only way to make shared paths safer for everyone was to get rid of the
bikes.
"They should make a designated bike path on the roads.
"Even though I bike, I wouldn't like to be running along here with all of
the bikes that come racing past."
Business analyst Nicole Remedios, 34 walks to work along the footpath
between Toowong and Milton and said some bike riders could get "aggro" when
pedestrians spread across the path.
"Sometimes if people are walking in a row of three, bike riders will scream
at you to stand to the left," she said.
Richard Cordes, 48, a recreational bike rider who lives in Annerley, said it
was up to cyclists to take more care on shared paths.
"Pedestrians are being approached from behind so it's not their fault," he
said.
"We (bike riders) need to be a little bit more considerate and ring our
bells when we're approaching people.
"Speed is an issue as well; not enough bikes slow down enough when they pass
pedestrians."
Dr Barker said cyclists also needed to be more respectful of road rules,
including properly stopping at traffic lights- even if it meant the
inconvenience of taking special clip-in bike shoes off the peddles.
She said the number of people who still didn't wear helmets was alarming.
"From working in the emergency department the people you see not wearing
them are the young adolescents," she said.
"Once they hit about 13 or 14 they seem to think they're invincible and it's
not cool (to wear their helmet)."
--
www.ozcableguy.com
www.oztechnologies.com
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23450575-3102,00.html
>
> 9000 bike riders fined for breaking road rules
> Hannah Martin
> March 30, 2008 12:00am
> But riding on the shared paths was probably safer than the roads, he said.
> The only way to make shared paths safer for everyone was to get rid of the
> bikes.
I like this quote. Although I probably would have written it as
"The only way to make shared paths safer for everyone was to ban all
people and vehicles from using them."
> Business analyst Nicole Remedios, 34 walks to work along the footpath
> between Toowong and Milton and said some bike riders could get "aggro" when
> pedestrians spread across the path.
>
> "Sometimes if people are walking in a row of three, bike riders will scream
> at you to stand to the left," she said.
Funny that. They're probably under the mistaken impression that it's
a shared path.
> "We (bike riders) need to be a little bit more considerate and ring our
> bells when we're approaching people.
And then scream at them when they ignore you.
> Dr Barker said cyclists also needed to be more respectful of road rules,
> including properly stopping at traffic lights- even if it meant the
> inconvenience of taking special clip-in bike shoes off the peddles.
Eh? Non sequitor. What do clipless pedals have to do with running
red lights? Given that a good fraction of riders who ride through
reds are on flats anyway?
All it comes down to is "No News Ltd is good news".
--
TimC
No, the best way to prepare is to write programs, and to study great
programs that other people have written. In my case, I went to the garbage
cans at the Computer Science Center and I fished out listings of their
operating system. -- Bill Gates
Patrick Keogh
Well bugger me.
pete...@gmail.com
I'm seeing a knee jerk response to bucket the journalist. OK, the
article could have been written better, but the fact (supposedly)
remains that 9000 is a large number and it's newsworthy. Instead of
shooting the messenger, how about looking at the issue of the report?
9000 is about twice the membership of Bicycle Queensland (OK, that's a
pretty pisspoor statistic of itself, but back to the point) and it
exceeds the largest mass-participation rides in Brisbane by a good
margin. Where the heck are these 9000? I ride a fair bit and no one
has ever said to me they were busted, except a courier mate who must
hold a fair proportion of the tickets, and one triathlete with his
head down-bum up. So is it made up, or real? I"ve asked The Courier
Mail to follow up with breakdown statistics. I want to know where and
how the policing is being done (that I never see) and who's getting
caught.
Honestly, I would love to see the police picking off the red-light
dickheads - but in risk-based proportion to their work on the habitual
red-light-running amongst Brisbane drivers. Note the full-year total
is of the same order as the weekly take of speeding motorists, and the
threat posed by a cyclist at 30 km/h is a tiny fraction of that posed
by 1.5T of metal at 50-70 km/h.
Donga
percrime
Whats the bet it turns out to be 90 and news limited did their normal
careful checking of the facts?
Tomasso
"percrime" <da...@idontwantyoutoknow.com> wrote in message news:47ef...@news.mel.dft.com.au...
A bit of maths:
"The Courier Mail" claims: 59000 fines for Qld cyclists since 2003.
1. How many active cyclists in Qld?
National stats say about 8% of the Qld population ("Cycling Participation
in Australia by people 15 years and older", 2006), or something like
200000 cyclists.
Ie, The probability one a random Qld cyclist of being fined in that period is
about 0.25 (after correcting for some slackos who get fined more than
once). Could be some margin for error, but certainly between 0.2 and
0.3 sounds pretty safe.
2. How many people subscribe to aus.bicycle? Usenet says 453, but this
will include a few foreigners but also a lot of access that doesn't get
counted. Let's say 400 to be conservative. About 20% will be from
Qld (assuming a proportion based on population).
Ie, 80 Qld subscribers.
3. H0: assume the Courier Mail is reliable. We expect 20 +/- 17
aus.bicycle subscribers from Qld were fined 2003 onward, with
95% confidence.
4. To complete this analysis:
If you are a Qld subscriber to aus.bicycle, please report, either:
A. I was fined for a bicycle offence from 2003, onward, or
B. I was not fined for a bicycle offence in that period.
NB: It's important to report the B's as well as the A's.
Please post your answer.
5. A study with more power:
For each Qld subscriber. Approach any cyclist you know and
count the number who answer A, and the number who answer B.
It's important to count the B's as well as the A's.
Post your response.
6. Speculative position from me:
That The Courier Mail is fool of sheet.
Tomasso.
paulh
> Stats analysis method below...
>
>
>
>
>
> "percrime" <da...@idontwantyoutoknow.com> wrote in messagenews:47ef...@news.mel.dft.com.au...
>
> - Show quoted text -
LIke many articles quoting statistics, a figure is quoted to push a
point that may have little to do with the breakup of the numbers. I
would imagine that a large proportion of riders who are fined, are
fined for not wearing helmets. This could lead to a 9000 total (or may
not), but then the anecdotal examples of terrorist riding, quoting the
9000, are brought in to call for licensing by somebody with a barrow
to push. Statistics must always be questioned as to the breakup of the
data and its validity, because we see more and more bending of facts
for political reasons these days (statistically speaking).
pete...@gmail.com
> Stats analysis method below...
> That The Courier Mail is fool of sheet.
>
> Tomasso.
ROTFLMAO
pete...@gmail.com
> "speed contributed to many accidents"
>
> Well bugger me.
Kind offer, but no thanks.
Tomasso
"paulh" <phol...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:eb3d7a13-89dc-4cca-812c-
596df6...@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 30, 3:20 pm, "Tomasso" <Toma...@blank.blank> wrote:
> Stats analysis method below...
>
> > peter...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Mar 30, 11:54 am, TimC <tconn...@no.spam.accepted.here-
> >> astro.swin.edu.au> wrote:
> >>> On 2008-03-30, OzCableguy (aka Bruce)
> > 4. To complete this analysis:
> >
> > If you are a Qld subscriber to aus.bicycle, please report, either:
> >
> > A. I was fined for a bicycle offence from 2003, onward, or
> > B. I was not fined for a bicycle offence in that period.
> >
> > NB: It's important to report the B's as well as the A's.
> >
> > Please post your answer.
> >
> > 5. A study with more power:
> >
> > For each Qld subscriber. Approach any cyclist you know and
> > count the number who answer A, and the number who answer B.
> >
> > It's important to count the B's as well as the A's.
> >
> > Post your response.
> >
> > 6. Speculative position from me:
> >
> > That The Courier Mail is fool of sheet.
> >
> > Tomasso.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> point that may have little to do with the breakup of the numbers. I
> would imagine that a large proportion of riders who are fined, are
> fined for not wearing helmets. This could lead to a 9000 total (or may
> not), but then the anecdotal examples of terrorist riding, quoting the
> 9000, are brought in to call for licensing by somebody with a barrow
> to push. Statistics must always be questioned as to the breakup of the
> data and its validity, because we see more and more bending of facts
> for political reasons these days (statistically speaking).
Good point.
Would all Qld responders please also count the type of offence, please?
59000 infringements in 7 or so years should be noticeable.
T.
Tomasso
"OzCableguy" <ozcab...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message news:dXBHj.3945$n8....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23450575-3102,00.html
>
> 9000 bike riders fined for breaking road rules
> Hannah Martin
> March 30, 2008 12:00am
Also noticed this (Qld Road Rules for cyclists):
Riding on the footpath (s288)
In Queensland, cyclists of any age are allowed to:
* ride on a footpath unless prohibited by a 'NO BICYCLES' sign-you [sic] must give way to pedestrians and ride in a manner that does
not inconvenience or endanger other footpath users.
--
Subject to:
Riding to the left of oncoming bicycle riders on a path (s251)
You must:
* always ride your bike to the left of other riders coming towards you on a bikepath, footpath, separated path or shared path.
--
And:
Riding on a footpath or shared path (s250)
You must:
* keep left and give way to pedestrians on footpaths and shared-use paths.
--
Isn't it time NSW caught up to this.
NSW only allows cycling on a footpath:
where permitted by sign, or the cyclist is under 12 years, or cyclist is accompanying a cyclist under 12 years.
[NB: The Australian Road Rules only go this far:
250 Riding on a footpath or shared path
(1) The rider of a bicycle who is 12 years old or older must not ride on a footpath if another law of this jurisdiction prohibits
the rider from riding on the footpath].
--
Time NSW caught up to Qld...
T.
pete...@gmail.com
> "OzCableguy" <ozcable...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:dXBHj.3945$n8....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Especially all those bloody NSW tourists who come up here and get
pissed off with cyclists on the footpaths! ;)
Patrick Keogh
those who are the focus of the criminal justice system here are our
aboriginal population, our poor and those suffering from a mental
illness. So it is bloody unlikely that the readership of aus.b will be a
representative sample.
If it is a fact that 9000 riders were fined (and that is open to
verification) it almost certainly does not mean that this is evidence
of a public safety issue.
I bet if you wanted to you could run a similar story "24000 pedestrians
fined". Almost certainly the same cohort of offenders, almost certainly
of similar (zero) value in determining a public safety issue.
All I can say is that I haven't purchased a newspaper in the past five
years. Not moy fault. Move on.
pete...@gmail.com
You might be onto something, with your hypothesis on who is amongst
the 9000. If it isn't the well-heeled lycra lads or the to-be-affluent
uni students of Brisbane, perhaps it is the put-upon poor, somewhere
out of my view. If that's so, I'm interested. Unbalanced policing
certainly is a public safety issue. So is uncritical journalism. I
hope I elicit a response on the statistical breakdown.
Duncan
per. http://www.police.qld.gov.au/services/reportsPublications/statisticalReview/0607/default.htm
in 06/07, Qld traffic offences total:
- 43,000 (excluding speed and red/light cameras)
- 208,000 speed camera offences (seems to be steady at 1 in 60-70
vehicles)
- 38,000 red light camera offences
still, that means approx 3% of offences were recorded against
cyclists, which seems pretty high.
duncan
Zebee Johnstone
Duncan <dunca...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
> still, that means approx 3% of offences were recorded against
> cyclists, which seems pretty high.
If they can catch that many, then why do they need licences?
I agree it's likely helmet laws, although maybe light laws as well?
I'd want to see a breakdown of the actual offences...
Zebee
Duncan
> In aus.bicycle on Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:58:09 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
> > still, that means approx 3% of offences were recorded against
> > cyclists, which seems pretty high.
>
> If they can catch that many, then why do they need licences?
>
> I agree it's likely helmet laws, although maybe light laws as well?
> I'd want to see a breakdown of the actual offences...
Indeed.
It's also not clear if this 9000 is "recorded offences" or "unique
offenders".
It is more than likely that the bloke who gets pulled up for no helmet
or running a red, also gets done for
1/ no reflectors
2/ no bell
I know I'd get done for 1/ if anyone bothered to look, and up until
recently, 2/.
pete...@gmail.com
Sent just now:
roads...@transport.qld.gov.au
Dear Queensland Transport
As a cyclist and motorist, I was interested to read the article,
reproduced below from The Courier Mail, stating that 9000 bike riders
were fined in the past year for breaking road rules.
This article has caused extensive discussion amongst cycling groups. I
and a number of my colleagues would like to know a statistical
breakdown of these numbers. Would you be so kind as to provide me with
further details, that I can share with others. We would like to know:
- where in Queensland the offences occurred
- what were the offences
- what penalties were issued
- whether these infringements were issued in routine policing or
whether they were in specific campaigns
- and any other details you think might inform the debate.
Of course, details on every offence cannot be provided and categorical
information will be satisfactory.
Thankyou in advance for the information.
Yours sincerely
Donga
Rob.
They ping them for, no lights, at night - frequently.
Peter Cremasco
It does seem a bit high, but then again I'd be tempted to use those
figures to support the case against registration of bicycles. After all,
lack of registration hasn't hindered the process of apprehending and
fining cyclists, has it? :)
Theo Bekkers
Are you suggesting that a very high percentage of offending cyclists were
apprehended?
Theo
Peter Cremasco
Hell, no. I'm suggesting that a LOT of cyclists were apprehended. A
LOT!!! The general public is only interested in LOTS, not descriptive
statistics.
Bill the Cat
against humanity (running red lights). I just don't have the will power to
just sit there at 5am.
Been riding in Brisbane for 3 years, no citations (yet).
BtC
Theo Bekkers
Qualatative statistics? :-)
We went off daylight savings last weekend and because they needed to change
the times on all the multinova cameras, they were all taken off the roads
all weekend. The govt reckons they did not book 3500 motorists for speeding
last weekend, 'losing' $500,000 in revenue. One of the cons of daylight
saving?
Theo
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> Hell, no. I'm suggesting that a LOT of cyclists were apprehended. A
>> LOT!!! The general public is only interested in LOTS, not descriptive
>> statistics.
>
> Qualatative statistics? :-)
>
> We went off daylight savings last weekend and because they needed to change
> the times on all the multinova cameras, they were all taken off the roads
> all weekend. The govt reckons they did not book 3500 motorists for speeding
> last weekend, 'losing' $500,000 in revenue. One of the cons of daylight
> saving?
Having been grappling with the fallout of a fellow sysadmin who didn't
do his job properly despite claiming it was all under control when I
queried him last week (been doing unix for 15 years, been at the
observatory for 35 years, but still doesn't understand the full
implications of getting timezones and UT wrong in an astronomical
facility?), I can say how easy it is to get right, even after someone
else has screwed up the timekeeping.
If they pay me half of that $500,000, I can fix it for them this
afternoon, "saving" them 250,000!
--
TimC
I don't know, but every time I look at a modern Intel schematic I think of a
steam engine running REALLY fast. -- gcash in ASR on 68K vs 8086
Damien
9/10 would be no helmet offences. Especially Europeans and
adolescents. Just about every European co-worker I know has had a no
helmet fine (or been let off). I don't know anyone else who has
received a fine of any type.
Lots more would be no light at night.
Cheers,
Damien
Donga
> On Mar 31, 2:02 pm, Duncan <duncanmc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 31, 1:33 pm, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > In aus.bicycle on Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:58:09 -0700 (PDT)
>
> > > Duncan <duncanmc...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
> > > > still, that means approx 3% of offences were recorded against
> > > > cyclists, which seems pretty high.
>
> > > If they can catch that many, then why do they need licences?
>
> > > I agree it's likely helmet laws, although maybe light laws as well?
> > > I'd want to see a breakdown of the actual offences...
>
> > Indeed.
>
> > It's also not clear if this 9000 is "recorded offences" or "unique
> > offenders".
>
> > It is more than likely that the bloke who gets pulled up for no helmet
> > or running a red, also gets done for
> > 1/ no reflectors
> > 2/ no bell
>
> > I know I'd get done for 1/ if anyone bothered to look, and up until
> > recently, 2/.
>
> Sent just now:
>
> Dear Queensland Transport
>
> As a cyclist and motorist, I was interested to read the article,
> reproduced below from The Courier Mail, stating that 9000 bike riders
> were fined in the past year for breaking road rules.
>
> This article has caused extensive discussion amongst cycling groups. I
> and a number of my colleagues would like to know a statistical
> breakdown of these numbers. Would you be so kind as to provide me with
> further details, that I can share with others. We would like to know:
>
> - where in Queensland the offences occurred
> - what were the offences
> - what penalties were issued
> - whether these infringements were issued in routine policing or
> whether they were in specific campaigns
> - and any other details you think might inform the debate.
>
> Of course, details on every offence cannot be provided and categorical
> information will be satisfactory.
>
> Thankyou in advance for the information.
>
> Yours sincerely
>
> Donga
Response, with tables of localities and offences, provided on the
Bikeqld wiki:
http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:10069_-_Bicycle_Infringements_2007.pdf
Makes for some quite interesting reading. I'll post some comments
tomorrow.
Donga
Zebee Johnstone
Donga <idomybestw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Response, with tables of localities and offences, provided on the
> Bikeqld wiki:
> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:10069_-_Bicycle_Infringements_2007.pdf
> Makes for some quite interesting reading. I'll post some comments
> tomorrow.
>
Offence_desc Total
BICYCLE RIDER FAIL TO WEAR HELMET 8,500
RIDE BICYCLE/POWER WHEEL REC DEVICE W/O REQ LIGHTS OPERATING & VISIBLE 252
Like people thought - helmets the main one, and lights a way way
distant second.
44 fail to stop at stop sign, compared to 40 carrying more than the
bike was designed for.
Actual naughty traffic things are in mostly single digits.
Zebee
Patrick Keogh
and that's not the worst of it! 9500 offences and none of them are for
speeding. Qld riders hang yourt heads in shame!
Duncan
> and that's not the worst of it! 9500 offences and none of them are for
> speeding. Qld riders hang yourt heads in shame!
There are 6 recorded for overtaking a tram at > 10km/h.. does that
count?
What I find puzzling is that there are 110 for "carrying passenger
with no helmet", but only 40 for "carrying more persons than bicycle
designed for".
Zebee Johnstone
Duncan <dunca...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
> What I find puzzling is that there are 110 for "carrying passenger
> with no helmet", but only 40 for "carrying more persons than bicycle
> designed for".
lots and lots of wind-in-the-hair tandem riders?
(or the same one who is a slow learner....)
Zebee
Donga
> Makes for some quite interesting reading. I'll post some comments
> tomorrow.
>
> Donga
Some observations:
- 9,598 offences, total fine $55,625, average fine= $5.80! There must
be a lot of missing data.
UPDATED: after I pointed this out, the statistician found some extra
money. Now it is $716,005 for an average of $74.60 per offence.
- Cairns is the worst location (1,200+) - hardly surprising if you see
the number of Japanese students riding around with evidently complete
disregard for the rules and safety
- Not much action in Brisbane (about 1,150 in all districts)
- Redcliffe police must hate cyclists (600+)
- Huge majority are lack of helmet (8,500) (the average fine would buy
two of the cheaper helmets)
- No lights 250 (wouldn't be hard to crank this up by camping outside
unis and TAFEs after dusk)
- Running a red light 200, but several variant offences on the theme
- 5 drinking alcohol while riding (put it in a bidon, you goof)
- 129 using mobile phone while riding!
G-S
People carrying toddlers in toddler seats on bikes where the kid isn't
wearing a helmet?
G-S
Terryc
> - 129 using mobile phone while riding!
Which begs the obvious question as to how many qld Mv drivers were
pinged for this offence that year.
Adrian Tritschler
> In aus.bicycle on Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:59:28 -0700 (PDT)
> Duncan <dunca...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>>
>> What I find puzzling is that there are 110 for "carrying passenger
>> with no helmet", but only 40 for "carrying more persons than bicycle
>> designed for".
>
> lots and lots of wind-in-the-hair tandem riders?
With tandems the one on the back will assure you there are no
"passengers" -- so there couldn't possibly be an offence that there was
a passenger with no helmet.
> (or the same one who is a slow learner....)
More likely that the policeman was happy to find one offence and didn't
want to charge them with too many at once otherwise he might be thought
to be picking on someone.
> Zebee
Adrain
Skewer
> There are 6 recorded for overtaking a tram at > 10km/h.. does that
> count?
>
What puzzles me is that the last QLD tram ran on April 1969.
So how did 6 tickets get written for the offense 38 years later?.
Is the legal process that slow? ;-)
--
Pete.B
Theo Bekkers
I think I'm losing my mind. I felt sure there were trams when I was in
Brisbane in 74-5. I'v only been there the once.
Currently in Perth, speed camera offences are being delivered six months
after the offence ocurred.
Theo
Claude
"Theo Bekkers" <tbek...@bekkers.com.au> wrote in message
news:47fd41d5$1...@news.bekkers.com.au...
> I think I'm losing my mind. I felt sure there were trams when I was in
> Brisbane in 74-5. I'v only been there the once.
>
Trams were eliminated in Brisbane in 1969. Perhaps you've mixed up
Melbourne or Adelaide with Brisbane?
http://www.railpage.org.au/tram/brisbane.html
Theo Bekkers
> "Theo Bekkers wrote
>> I think I'm losing my mind. I felt sure there were trams when I was
>> in Brisbane in 74-5. I'v only been there the once.
> Trams were eliminated in Brisbane in 1969. Perhaps you've mixed up
> Melbourne or Adelaide with Brisbane?
>
> http://www.railpage.org.au/tram/brisbane.html
Yup, I'm losing the indexing system in my mind.
Theo
Terryc
In NSW, if it isn't sent within 6 months, you get off.
<shades of PIB moving to Maitland>
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
You need a fsck.
(fscking fscker fscked up the fsck here. With no backups of the
webswerver.)
--
TimC
If you tried to understand this, you'd be very confused, in the standard
way we talk about confusion. -- Some astronomer at a talk.
lemmiw...@gmail.com
astro.swin.edu.au> wrote:
> On 2008-04-09, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> > Claude wrote:
> >> "Theo Bekkers wrote
>
> >>> I think I'm losing my mind. I felt sure there were trams when I was
> >>> in Brisbane in 74-5. I'v only been there the once.
>
> >> Trams were eliminated in Brisbane in 1969. Perhaps you've mixed up
> >> Melbourne or Adelaide with Brisbane?
>
> >>http://www.railpage.org.au/tram/brisbane.html
>
> > Yup, I'm losing the indexing system in my mind.
>
> You need a fsck.
>
> (fscking fscker fscked up the fsck here. With no backups of the
> webswerver.)
How would he unmount the disk first though? I'm going to assume that
Theo normally comes up in single user mode.
Theo Bekkers
> How would he unmount the disk first though? I'm going to assume that
> Theo normally comes up in single user mode.
"comes up in single user mode"
?? What are you trying to say there Lemmi?
Theo
Beer mate?
lemmiw...@gmail.com
That I'm not very good at puns (or system administration)
> Theo
> Beer mate?
Ta, don't mind if I do!
Theo Bekkers
> On Apr 10, 3:13 pm, "Theo Bekkers" <tbekk...@bekkers.com.au> wrote:
>> lemmiwinks...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> How would he unmount the disk first though? I'm going to assume
>>> that Theo normally comes up in single user mode.
>>
>> "comes up in single user mode"
>>
>> ?? What are you trying to say there Lemmi?
>
> That I'm not very good at puns (or system administration)
I thought you were calling me a wanker. :-)
Theo
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> On Apr 10, 3:13 pm, "Theo Bekkers" <tbekk...@bekkers.com.au> wrote:
>>> lemmiwinks...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> How would he unmount the disk first though? I'm going to assume
>>>> that Theo normally comes up in single user mode.
>>>
>>> "comes up in single user mode"
>>>
>>> ?? What are you trying to say there Lemmi?
>>
>> That I'm not very good at puns (or system administration)
Describes my job well.
> I thought you were calling me a wanker. :-)
Most sysadmins are.
--
TimC
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would
it?" -- Albert Einstein
Theo Bekkers
> Theo Bekkers wrote
>> I thought you were calling me a wanker. :-)
> Most sysadmins are.
Now that's just too much. I will not be called a sysadmin. :-)
Theo
Zebee Johnstone
I agree, you shouldn't be called one.
You are management. 'Nuff said.
Zebee
Terryc
>
> Most sysadmins are.
But, sadly, a neccessary evil.
My first unix job was as a sysadmin for a network of unix boxen and PCs
under total user control. It was at a time when NIS was still called
Yellow Pages and spinning platter space was expensive and they crunched
large data sets. The data carnage was incredible.
"But how can I stop other users from deleting your data if I'm not
allowed to stop you from deleting theirs?"
lol, made interesting because as a profit centre, I could largely
ignore the corporate "super sysadmins" who set the standards and do what
I wanted, aka hardware and some software so long as senior managers had
the paper trail where they'd been asked to solve a problem and declined
or failed and a white paper explaining the technical problems to keep
them distracted.
Sadly, it was just a tad too far to commute to by bicycle in those days.
Theo Bekkers
> TimC wrote:
>> Most sysadmins are.
> But, sadly, a neccessary evil.
Stuff doesn't work without some management. If you get rid of your accounts
dept, (you know, those people upstairs who winge about your timesheets and
all kinds of forms they _say_ they need,) no invoices would go out, no money
would come in and no-one gets paid. Sure, your customers work will still get
done, but not for long.
Theo
Who is appreciated on paydays.
bigg...@gmail.com
comment on breaking road rules and what do I find but an arcane
discussion about sysadmins. (Note that I am a computer geek myself by
employment if not by temperament).
<start of rant>
On the issue of cyclists being fined for not wearing helmets, I find
that the topic of compulsory helmets is a no-no in many forums. To
dare to suggest that compulsory helmets may not be the greatest thing
ever is met with utter contempt and derision. I was recently in
Europe, including countries like Germany where the proportion of
cyclists in relation to the population is much greater than here, and
in not one of these countries were cycle helmets compulsory.
</end of rant>
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> comment on breaking road rules and what do I find but an arcane
> discussion about sysadmins. (Note that I am a computer geek myself by
> employment if not by temperament).
You're new here, aren't you?
--
TimC
Octopuses don't like astro turf much. That's a *great* piece of trivia
to drop into conversations. I must remember it.
-- Lloyd Gilbert in AFAFDA
Hamish Moffatt
> On Apr 9, 11:48 am, Patrick Keogh <patr...@keogh.net.au> wrote:
>> and that's not the worst of it! 9500 offences and none of them are for
>> speeding. Qld riders hang yourt heads in shame!
>
> There are 6 recorded for overtaking a tram at > 10km/h.. does that
> count?
Where do you find a tram in Qld to overtake at > 10km/h?
Hamish