dynamo lighting
Zebee Johnstone
few days then start the ride to work acclimatisation.
As part of that, I have to get lighting.... I have some cheap lights
to be going on with, but I want something decent.
I am very much inclining towards dynamo lighting as batteries have to
be recharged and I am sure I forgot my head once when I was running
late, so forgetting the charge is almost a given.
Anyone have any experience with dynamos? I know I can go hub or
bottle, I expect I'll go bottle. Any recommendations?
Zebee
tony f
"Zebee Johnstone" <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrne1156h...@localhost.localdomain...
I'm a big fan of batteries, as their light is consistent - well, until they
go flat. When I had dynamo lights (or were they generator?), I had virtually
no light up hills, and amazing light as I sped down hills - especially just
before the electricity generated overloaded the globe. Then I had nothing.
;^)
I worry about forgetting to charge, so got myself into a routine - get home,
hook up charger, then get my gear off. First thing was always to hook up the
charger. Worked for me.
If you do go batteries, try and avoid SLAs - I use them because they're
cheap, but they are really big and heavy. NiCads, NIMHs or Li-ion are much
better, but costly.
Oh, and of course, I would say...
build your own! (some tips at my site below)
Tony F
http://www.thefathippy.com
Stuart Lamble
> If you do go batteries, try and avoid SLAs - I use them because they're
> cheap, but they are really big and heavy. NiCads, NIMHs or Li-ion are much
> better, but costly.
>
> Oh, and of course, I would say...
>
> build your own! (some tips at my site below)
Strongly seconded. I managed to destroy the batteries for my lights by
virtue of overcharging: most lights come with an AC-DC wall wart that
supplies a constant current/voltage. No smarts whatsoever, which makes
over- or under-charging a certainty. So I get in one morning, plug them
in, and half an hour later hear a loud crack. 'Twas the plastic shrink
over the batteries splitting because it had got too hot. The batteries
were toasty warm to the touch (as in, I couldn't hold them for more than
a couple of seconds.)
So I went out to Jaycar, picked up a few battery holders and ten size C
NiMH cells, and got to work. Cut off the cable; find a spare bidon; cut
open the top enough for the cable to slide through; apply lots and lots
of silicone to seal it; solder the cables together; and presto: one only
bidon, holding five C cells, capable of powering my lights for longer
than the original batteries. Plus I can use a standard NiMH "smart"
charger -- no more overcharging. Completely waterproof, too, thanks to
the copious quantities of silicone that I applied. Looks funny, but it
gets the job done.
The only complaint I have is that the charger holds four batteries. Oh
well, you can't have everything.
--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".
Zebee Johnstone
tony f <t.fa...@nospam.uws.edu.au> wrote:
>
> I'm a big fan of batteries, as their light is consistent - well, until they
> go flat. When I had dynamo lights (or were they generator?), I had virtually
> no light up hills, and amazing light as I sped down hills - especially just
> before the electricity generated overloaded the globe. Then I had nothing.
I understand the later models cope with that. THey have a capacitor
to keep the light on when slow or stopped, and a regulator that stops
overcharging.
Zebee
Peter McCallum
You can still get Sanyo Dynapower dynamos from time to time on eBay.
I've had one on my bike for around 20 years. They work ok, not as well
as hub dynamos but fine for lighting your way. You need to get some good
halogen bulbs to go with it though, and they are not cheap.
P
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA
Peter McCallum
> I worry about forgetting to charge, so got myself into a routine - get home,
> hook up charger, then get my gear off. First thing was always to hook up the
> charger. Worked for me.
You should be careful playing around with electricity while naked.
Enno Middelberg
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> Anyone have any experience with dynamos? I know I can go hub or
> bottle, I expect I'll go bottle. Any recommendations?
Go for a hub dynamo. They're expensive but last forever. No wear on any
parts, and more reliable when you need them most: in wet weather. Bottle
dynamos tend to slip when the tyre is wet, and I've heard that even the
more sophisticated models (eg Busch & Muller) will slip in wet
conditions after a while.
BTW, the Shimano DH-3N71 (the one I have and am completely happy with)
costs $139 at St Kilda Cycles, not a huge investment. You will have to
build it into the wheel, though.
Cheers,
Enno
Bruce Dickson
I have a Shimano DH-3N71 hub dynamo and a Lumotec halogen light. I like
it, It works very well. You get full brightness from about 12km/h so
it's only up very steep hills that I'm going slower than that. I have a
battery LED flasher on the front as well for when I'm stopped at lights
etc. The light has a regulator in in so you don't blow your bulb if you
go fast. The one bad point is bulbs are $10 each and only rated to last
100hrs. Have a look at stkildacycles.com.au they seem to be the only
Australian shop that has much in the way of dynamo lights online though
someone might know of somewhere else.
Bruce.
ray
years of running them and went over to rechargables. The dynamos are
okay when they're new, but tend to get cranky as they get older,
bearings with Sanyo Dynapowers were always fun, when in fact it didn't
have any (I destroyed a spare one to find out).
Sidewall runners have been clearly shown to have more running resistance
than tread runners, but tread runners can jam on MTBs due to large
amounts of dirt, or slip in wet conditions, so you can't win.
Hub dynamos are of course the smoothest, least resistance and most proof
against grot, but there is a weight penalty and they cost as well. If
you wanted one for the long term, that would be the way to go I think.
Cheers,
Ray.
SuzieB
I don't know much about dynamo lights but want to extol the virtues of
the light I use on my bikes. Last night was the first time I had tested
the front light in true darkness. Normally I just have the light
flashing in the morning when it's getting light already just for added
visability. I bought the CatEye HL-EL400 which is great for me as I
have two main bikes that I switch between and the light is easily
moveable and can be used on the handlebars or helmet.
There are 3 white LEDs in the light which I discovered last night are
bright enough to illuminate the road ahead when it's dark if you use it
on the constant light setting. As a flashing light it also works
brilliantly. It's not going to be the solution for mountain bikers on a
dark single track but for urban use I think it would be enough to make
sure you miss the nasties on the road. It's run time is 160hr
(flashing) or 80hr (constant) and it weighs 76g with battery.
Good luck with finding a suitable light and enjoy the riding! :D
--
SuzieB
Poiter
Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
>
> Anyone have any experience with dynamos? I know I can go hub or
> bottle, I expect I'll go bottle. Any recommendations?
> Zebee
Not wanting incur the roadie wrath by mentioning the "R" word but wont
your new "bike" have a 20" front wheel?
For long Audax rides on my R******** I use either
- two separate 3 watt Luxeons running off 3x C-cell alkalines or
- My SON disc/dyno hub with a 3 watt E-6 light and a luxeon as a
standby
My dyno hub is built for 20" wheel (less magnets?) and puts out some
good riding light with the E-6 even at low speeds.
The 3 watt homebuilt Luxeon lights put out the equivalent amount of
light and can be self built for about $60 with some DIY cobbling. No
electronics involved, but you have to use alkaline batteries which last
for up to 18 hours by experience.
'SON 20S hub' (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt-lumotec.asp)
'3 Watt Luxeons' (http://users.cyberone.com.au/heal/LUXEONLEDS.htm)
'Lots of stuff on lights' (http://www.audax.uk.net/lights/index.htm)
Pete
--
Poiter
flyingdutch
PS i can atest to the virtues of running one (preferably more)
of the little single LEDs on your helmetif riding in traffic.
You get seen far better above cars and you can turn your head and
'tell' entering traffic of your presence also.
cheap as chips and get you noticed VERY well.
Flying"illuminated"Dutch
--
flyingdutch
c.mo...@unsw.edu.au
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> Well, the bike is here, so I'll have to get used to riding it for a
> few days then start the ride to work acclimatisation.
>
> As part of that, I have to get lighting.... I have some cheap lights
> to be going on with, but I want something decent.
>
> I am very much inclining towards dynamo lighting as batteries have to
> be recharged and I am sure I forgot my head once when I was running
> late, so forgetting the charge is almost a given.
While that is a genuine consideration...it's not much of one thanks to
the wonders of ridiculously low-drain LEDs.
I'm using a set of LED lights (about $50 for the pair, plenty bright,
each runs on three AAA's), I have been for several months, they get
used at least a couple of times a week, and the batteries are still
going strong. I don't expect to need to remember the charger more than
a few times a year.
--
Craig Motbey
1985 BMW R65LS "The Beemer"
Dodgy second hand mountain bike "Malaria"
Spiny Norman
<t.fa...@nospam.uws.edu.au> wrote in aus.bicycle:
>
>"Zebee Johnstone" <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:slrne1156h...@localhost.localdomain...
>> Well, the bike is here, so I'll have to get used to riding it for a
>>
>> I am very much inclining towards dynamo lighting as batteries have to
>> be recharged and I am sure I forgot my head once when I was running
>> late, so forgetting the charge is almost a given.
>>
>> Anyone have any experience with dynamos? I know I can go hub or
>> bottle, I expect I'll go bottle. Any recommendations?
>
>I'm a big fan of batteries, as their light is consistent - well, until they
>go flat. When I had dynamo lights (or were they generator?), I had virtually
>no light up hills, and amazing light as I sped down hills - especially just
>before the electricity generated overloaded the globe. Then I had nothing.
>;^)
In the 1950's I had a Raleigh with a hub dynamo which worked great, on
the down tube was a holder for (from memory) three or four D carbon
cells. When you were travelling too slowly for the dynamo to light the
front and rear lights the carbon cells took over. The batteries lasted
for ages and I presume used something crude like a diode to regulate
thier use.
I can't believe that 50 years later it is not posible to duplicate a
far more efficient system than that for a bicycle using a generator,
a few transisters and some Nicads/ NiMH (whatever) C cells. You would
think it would be fairly simple to regulate the voltage to the lights
and perhaps even use any surplus power to charge the C cells
Modern LEDS give out so much light and use so little power that a
battery of 6 each front and rear should be doddle to power.
Regards
Prickles
Timendi causa est nescire
This message only uses recycled electrons
Zebee Johnstone
Poiter <Poiter...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>
> Not wanting incur the roadie wrath by mentioning the "R" word but wont
> your new "bike" have a 20" front wheel?
It's Giro 20, so yes. The hub dynamo needs to be special for that?
Oh, and if aus.moto can cope with Guzzi riders,
melb^h^h^h^haus.bicycles can cope with recumbent riders.
Had the first ride on it tonight, wonderful! Still working on the
setup, I think I have the seat angle and distance right as I'm pushing
against my back not my backside and not feeling like I'm sliding, but
the bars need some more fiddling.
> 'SON 20S hub' (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt-lumotec.asp)
> '3 Watt Luxeons' (http://users.cyberone.com.au/heal/LUXEONLEDS.htm)
> 'Lots of stuff on lights' (http://www.audax.uk.net/lights/index.htm)
Thanks for that!
Zebee
Zebee Johnstone
SuzieB <SuzieB...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>
> flashing in the morning when it's getting light already just for added
> visability. I bought the CatEye HL-EL400 which is great for me as I
> have two main bikes that I switch between and the light is easily
> moveable and can be used on the handlebars or helmet.
Easily movable is actually one of the things I *don't* want.
I really dislike the way you have to dismantle your bicycle if you go
anywhere. If it's going to be transport and not a toy, it has to be
convenient. Taking heaps of stuff off every time you stop and lugging
it about with you is ridiculous.
I've got the non-quick-release wheels and seat, any lights will have
to be capable of being left on the bike so it takes a determined thief
with tools to rip the bits off. It won't be left all day like that,
but I'm damned if it will take longer to park it than the errand
takes!
Zebee
Plodder
--
Frank
pang...@DACKSiinet.net.au
Drop DACKS to reply
"flyingdutch" <flyingdut...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote in
message news:flyingdut...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com...
Seconded. I have one that attaches with those velcro sticky dots. Easy on
and off. Fuzzy bit on th ehelmet so you don't pick up all sorts of grot when
you put your helmet down. I learnt that after my partner's dog took a liking
to my helmet. Took me ages picking the bits of dog hair off the velcro
before I twigged and changed the dots...
me
>
Peter Signorini
Personally I've been yery happy with my Busch & Muller S6 dynamo. It is a
side-wall unit but runs with very low friction. Full output comes on at 10
kmh or less, and it has a built-in zenner diode to regulate high speed
output. Using a Lumotec headlight also by B & M it gives a nicely focused
narrow beam that very conveniently illuminates the width of a 3m bikepath
and sprays some light further out. The light is easily visible to other
traffic for a full 180 degrees. I use Vistalite Super Nebula and Eclipse
LED lights for the rear, but for a headlight I got cheesed off by losing
batteries to the shelf life, as I don't ride at night very ioften, so don't
have a charging routine, but when I need the lights I want them to work.
For around town street use I reckon that a good dynamo is very suitable -
bolted onto the bike, always there and ready to go. Years ago I used the
iconic Sanyo Dynapower for many years, but the B & M system is at least as
good from a low friction point, and their light optics seem vastly better.
Cost for the S6 is a bit steep ($160 for the dynamo), but it's less than
half the cost of a Schmidt hub setup.
--
Cheers
Peter
~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)
Zebee Johnstone
Peter Signorini <pet...@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
>
> Personally I've been yery happy with my Busch & Muller S6 dynamo. It is a
> side-wall unit but runs with very low friction. Full output comes on at 10
> kmh or less, and it has a built-in zenner diode to regulate high speed
How does it go in the wet? I've heard bottles slip?
The cost of the hub did make me blink, a bottle seems a more
reasonable proposition.
I expect I'll need lights over the next few months, but can also see
that for 3 months of the year at least I won't, and shelf life might
annoy me then. It's the convenience that draws me to a dynamo,
although I suppose it shouldn't be too hard to fix up a homebrew light
setup where the battery is hard to nick.
Zebee
Travis
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> I am very much inclining towards dynamo lighting as batteries have to
> be recharged and I am sure I forgot my head once when I was running
> late, so forgetting the charge is almost a given.
I had a similar idea and so I took the mounting bracket of an old
battery powered incandescent bike light and glued and screwed it onto
one of those windup LED torches. (Bought my torch from Bunnings for
$30. Its a bright five LED torch. I actually bought it for other
purposes but decided to mount it to my bike anyway. It unclips from
the handlebars easily though and still is useful as a domestic
flashlight.)
Before I commence a night time ride, I spend a couple of minutes
turning the crank in order to build up enough charge to run the torch
at high brightness for a while. Then, when I'm stopped or just
dawdling along at a low speed I turn the crank a bit more to top up the
charge.
The light lasts for hours with a couple of minutes charging, but the
brightness drops off a lot. At first its a very bright light and it
illuminates my path quite nicely, but after several minutes it drops
off so much that its not really lighting my way. Its still bright
enough for cars and other cyclists to see me, just not bright enough to
actually light up where I'm going.
If I'm riding on a well illuminated road or path, its not really an
issue. When I'm cruising along I take the opportunity to turn the
crank a bit to light it up. Also, if I sense an obstacle ahead and
want to check it out I can also crank up the light then and while I'm
turning the handle its very bright.
Not recommended for use where you require sustained bright illumination
of your path, but for the purpose of just having a bright light for
others to see you, it does the job.
However, the drop-off is starting to annoy me, and I just spent $20
getting a bright LED bicycle light from ebay. It has 28 (!) LEDs in it
and runs off AAA batteries, so I'll get some rechargeables. I'll
report back to the group when I receive it to advise whether its any
good or not.
As another person in this thread noted, LED torches are much more
energy efficient than incandescent torches, so the batteries last a lot
longer.
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> As another person in this thread noted, LED torches are much more
> energy efficient than incandescent torches, so the batteries last a lot
> longer.
They're not a lot more efficient -- 2 times at most. What they are is
a lot less power (unless you're paying for a luxeon). Most worthwhile
incandescent bulbs are at least 2.4W, whereas people seem perfectly
content with 0.2W LEDs which barely light up a dark low speed path.
--
TimC
Five is a sufficiently close approximation to infinity.
-- Robert Firth
Zebee Johnstone
TimC <tcon...@no.spam.accepted.here-astro.swin.edu.au> wrote:
>
> They're not a lot more efficient -- 2 times at most. What they are is
> a lot less power (unless you're paying for a luxeon). Most worthwhile
> incandescent bulbs are at least 2.4W, whereas people seem perfectly
> content with 0.2W LEDs which barely light up a dark low speed path.
Picked up some cute little driving lights from SuperCheap today. 55w
halogen 12v, but Jaycar have 3w and 10w bulbs that will fit.
Anyone got any idea where I can get 6v halogen bulbs? Not MR16
lights, but bulbs, similar to Jaycar SL2722 but 6v?
12v seems like I'd have to carry too much battery around.
Zebee
Ted Linnell
>On 2006-03-10, Travis (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> As another person in this thread noted, LED torches are much more
>> energy efficient than incandescent torches, so the batteries last a lot
>> longer.
>
>They're not a lot more efficient -- 2 times at most. What they are is
>a lot less power (unless you're paying for a luxeon). Most worthwhile
>incandescent bulbs are at least 2.4W, whereas people seem perfectly
>content with 0.2W LEDs which barely light up a dark low speed path.
Tim,
When comparing lights of different types, don't confuse Wattage with
light output. Wattage is a measure of power input, not light output.
For example an 8W fluro puts out a similar amout of light to a 60W
incandecent (tungsten fillament). Halogen bulbs put out more light per
watt than tungsten bulbs.
That said I am not sure how LEDs compare with tungesten or halogen for
light output.
Ted.
==============================================================
| Ted Linnell <edli...@acslink.net.au> |
| |
| Nunawading, Victoria , Australia |
==============================================================
Random Data
> Anyone got any idea where I can get 6v halogen bulbs? Not MR16 lights,
> but bulbs, similar to Jaycar SL2722 but 6v?
Rare as hen's teeth, and generally expensive, depending on exactly what
you're after. Stick with 12V. P=VI remember? So you halve your current for
a given power with 12V instead of 6, and 12V stuff is a lot easier to get
hold of.
The only problem is that a lot of "12V" stuff is actually automotive, and
should say 13.2V. They work off 12V, but are a little dull compared to
runing off 13.2.
--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
Love wouldn't be blind if the braille wasn't so damned much fun.
- Armistead Maupin
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> TimC <tcon...@no.spam.accepted.here-astro.swin.edu.au> wrote:
>>On 2006-03-10, Travis (aka Bruce)
>> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>>> As another person in this thread noted, LED torches are much more
>>> energy efficient than incandescent torches, so the batteries last a lot
>>> longer.
>>
>>They're not a lot more efficient -- 2 times at most.
>>What they are is
>>a lot less power (unless you're paying for a luxeon). Most worthwhile
>>incandescent bulbs are at least 2.4W, whereas people seem perfectly
>>content with 0.2W LEDs which barely light up a dark low speed path.
> Tim,
>
> When comparing lights of different types, don't confuse Wattage with
> light output. Wattage is a measure of power input, not light output.
> For example an 8W fluro puts out a similar amout of light to a 60W
> incandecent (tungsten fillament). Halogen bulbs put out more light per
> watt than tungsten bulbs.
>
> That said I am not sure how LEDs compare with tungesten or halogen for
> light output.
A factor of two or so for halogen, tungsten is a bit crapper though.
Not that much. Tis what I am saying. In fact, I'm not even sure of
that. I am not convinced that a 5W luxeon (LED) is any brighter than
a 5W halogen. I reckon they are *fainter*!
I'd love to put flourescent lights on my bike, but as Zebee mentioned
once, you'd need big optics. The next step in efficiency is of course
the HID. Want!
--
TimC
The triangle wheel was an improvement upon the square wheel:
It eliminates one bump. -- unknown
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> should say 13.2V. They work off 12V, but are a little dull compared to
> runing off 13.2.
Do you mean 13.8, or is 13.8 the charging voltage, and 13.2 the
nominal battery voltage when not being charged?
--
TimC
I hereby declare that from now on, the singular of "people" is "peopum".
-- Kibo
Zebee Johnstone
Random Data <spam...@hired-goons.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:58:11 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
>> Anyone got any idea where I can get 6v halogen bulbs? Not MR16 lights,
>> but bulbs, similar to Jaycar SL2722 but 6v?
>
> Rare as hen's teeth, and generally expensive, depending on exactly what
> you're after. Stick with 12V. P=VI remember? So you halve your current for
> a given power with 12V instead of 6, and 12V stuff is a lot easier to get
> hold of.
>
So what would be a good 12v to get? I suppose I just get a smallish
12v SLA and wing it?
Zebee
Bob C
--
Bob C
"Zebee Johnstone" <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrne14o9k...@localhost.localdomain...
Random Data
> A factor of two or so for halogen, tungsten is a bit crapper though. Not
> that much. Tis what I am saying. In fact, I'm not even sure of that. I
> am not convinced that a 5W luxeon (LED) is any brighter than a 5W halogen.
> I reckon they are *fainter*!
That's odd. My 5W Luxeon seems brighter in close, but doesn't throw as far
as my 10W halogen. That's a home brew halogen, so not quite as bright as a
Vista, etc. Of course, now I just use HID. MWuhahahahaha!
--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
O Canada, we stand ready to sit down and discuss our problems in a
civilized fashion for thee. -- wednesday
Random Data
> So what would be a good 12v to get? I suppose I just get a smallish 12v
> SLA and wing it?
12V 10W is fairly easy to get, but 20W is easier. 5W seems very dull. If
you hunt around you should be able to get a 10W MR11 with about a 12
degree spread.
As far as batteries go if you've got something around 7Ah from the moto it
should be OK. www.oatleyelectronics.com have good prices for those, and
TLE are reasonable as well. Jaycar and DSE are a bit pricey.
If you're only doing sub hour stuff you should be able to get away with a
4Ah SLA. It may be worth considering NiMH cells if you've already got a
charger.
--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
"The problem with people whose minds are in the gutter is that they keep
blocking my periscope."
Random Data
> Do you mean 13.8, or is 13.8 the charging voltage, and 13.2 the nominal
> battery voltage when not being charged?
I think I do actually, but 13.2 is what you get when you chuck an extra
NiMH cell at it!
--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
"Well, if you can't believe what you read in a comic book, what *can*
you believe?!" - Bullwinkle J. Moose
Euan
> I've got the non-quick-release wheels and seat, any lights will have
> to be capable of being left on the bike so it takes a determined thief
> with tools to rip the bits off. It won't be left all day like that,
> but I'm damned if it will take longer to park it than the errand
> takes!
The light referred to takes 1 second to take off and about three seconds
to put on. Four second errand? Oh add two seconds for the rear flasher.
Easiest way to make sure your lights are safe is to take them with you.
Given that lights are essential to night time survival I'll happily
pay ten seconds each time I leave my bike locked up at night. YMMV.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)
Zebee Johnstone
Random Data <spam...@hired-goons.net> wrote:
> 12V 10W is fairly easy to get, but 20W is easier. 5W seems very dull. If
> you hunt around you should be able to get a 10W MR11 with about a 12
> degree spread.
Right now I have 2 little driving light housings using 2 pin bulbs.
The ones in it are 55W, Jaycar has 10W ones.
> As far as batteries go if you've got something around 7Ah from the moto it
> should be OK. www.oatleyelectronics.com have good prices for those, and
> TLE are reasonable as well. Jaycar and DSE are a bit pricey.
Ouch! 2.6kg! OK, I am not into saving grams, but that's a whole
different thing...
> If you're only doing sub hour stuff you should be able to get away with a
> 4Ah SLA. It may be worth considering NiMH cells if you've already got a
> charger.
I expect to be doing 60-90 mins. Possibly not with both lights all
the time, but at least one.
Take a fair few NiMH wouldn't it?
Zebee
flaps
zeb...@gmail.com says...
> I expect to be doing 60-90 mins. Possibly not with both lights all
> the time, but at least one.
>
> Take a fair few NiMH wouldn't it?
>
> Zebee
>
Damn! Its not time to get the lights out already is it? Dark days of
winter loom.
I did a fair bit of messing around with lights last year after being
less than happy with the little LED lights I was packing. This site was
rather useful: http://bicyclelighting.com/ and source of a fair amount
of good advice.
Or from someone a little closer to home, have a read of the Fat Hippie's
pages at http://members.iinet.net.au/~fathers/lightstoc.htm
Anyway, I ended up with 2 * 20watt halogens (one spot and one flood) and
a 12 volt alarm strobe for a tail light. All three have a separate
on/off switch. I have a 30 minute commute each way which hardly seemed
to stress the 7aH SLA at all. Might try a smaller one this year in a
pathetic attempt to reduce weight.
There are some pictures of my setup on a blog I abandoned some time
ago.. If you can stand being redirected to a crappy "spaces" blog, have
a look at the happy snaps here: http://tinyurl.com/z93oz
--
Flaps
Zebee Johnstone
Aeek <Aeee...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> On 11 Mar 2006 11:07:52 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I expect to be doing 60-90 mins. Possibly not with both lights all
>>the time, but at least one.
>>
>>Take a fair few NiMH wouldn't it?
>
> A convenient on/off switch for your seeing light stretches the batteries.
At the rear yes, the flashing front ones don't seem to be as good,
I'm not sure why. Speaking as a motor vehicle pilot.
Zebee
Zebee Johnstone
flaps <fl...@beer.com> wrote:
>
> Anyway, I ended up with 2 * 20watt halogens (one spot and one flood) and
> a 12 volt alarm strobe for a tail light. All three have a separate
> on/off switch. I have a 30 minute commute each way which hardly seemed
> to stress the 7aH SLA at all. Might try a smaller one this year in a
> pathetic attempt to reduce weight.
6 or 12v halogens?
Zebee
flaps
zeb...@gmail.com says...
12v. Nice and bright. I've been mistaken for a motorcycle more than
once by cars coming the other way on suburban streets and giving way to
me which is nice. I went with 12v mainly because of cost. I already had
a 12v charger so all I needed to buy was the battery (about $20) and the
globes. The rest was just out of the junk box.
--
Flaps
Friday
You've got to be joking!
I've used both and a 5 watt Luxeon is at least the equivalent of a 10
watt halogen. I have a box of unused halogens because the Luxeons are
just so much better.
Terry Collins
> Anyone have any experience with dynamos? I know I can go hub or
> bottle, I expect I'll go bottle. Any recommendations?
My preference was for hub over under bracket, over bottle.
Hub (Sturney Archer) was less effort than bottle or under bracket
(between).
Hub is less susceptable to dirt, water (usually) and damage than bottle
or under bracket.
I've had three bottles break down over the first ten years and the Sanyo
under bracket (started to wear), whereas the Sturney Archer hub suffered
loss of magnetisom because I removed the magnet without a keeper(coil of
metal). Woops. I'd hove to see a hub generator with ceramic magnets
these days {:-)
The caveats with hub, bracket, bottle generators are
1) they seem to need 15-20 km/hr to give usuable light,
2) you need to use myriad zener diodes to prevent bulb popping if
zooming downhill,
3) they stop when you stop (some capacitor/battery combo might help
here) and
4) some part has to be left on the bike (usually minimum of generator)
all the time (theft, weather, weight, etc).
OTOH, now it would be interesting to see a system driving good leds
compared to the old incandescent bulb jobs.
In comparison, the issue with batteries systems is cost and weight. The
cheapest is SLA/gel battery which is weighty, but the lightest is led +
Li-On(still most energy dense?), but expensive.
My experience is that all the rechargeable batteries have a life of 2-3
years over which time they degrade capacity and you eventually chuck
them and replace them. So they are great if you are a regular user.
The major problem with rechargeable systems is cheap rechargers. Peeps
leave the batteries plugged in and the recharger recharges them and
slowly starts to overcharge/stew/destroy them.
Terry Collins
> Oh, and of course, I would say...
>
> build your own! (some tips at my site below)
No, no, no. Stay well away from Tony's site. You will end up spending
valuable bicycle funds on lighting project. {:-).
Terry Collins
> I can't believe that 50 years later it is not posible to duplicate a
> far more efficient system than that for a bicycle using a generator,
whilst there have been major advances in minaturisation of electronics,
the basic physics of the junction transistor hasn't changed at all, so
any rectification and regulation system tends to rob a few volts off the
system. Given that a lot of hibs and bottles were 6 watts, there wasn't
much to play with.
You see these on battery systems more now as they can give greater
power. You can find a link to one of these on Tony F's site.
> Modern LEDS give out so much light and use so little power that a
> battery of 6 each front and rear should be doddle to power.
6 x 5 Watt is still 30 watt.
Terry Collins
> Easiest way to make sure your lights are safe is to take them with you.
> Given that lights are essential to night time survival I'll happily pay
> ten seconds each time I leave my bike locked up at night. YMMV.
Been there, done that. Definitely wears thin after a while having to
cart around another bag of helmet, pump, and various lights.
Terry Collins
> They're not a lot more efficient -- 2 times at most. What they are is
> a lot less power (unless you're paying for a luxeon). Most worthwhile
> incandescent bulbs are at least 2.4W, whereas people seem perfectly
> content with 0.2W LEDs which barely light up a dark low speed path.
Ooooohhh, petrol chukka {:-).
We've had this discussion before haven't we.
<wanders of to check his 50 watt incandescent is working okay>
Terry Collins
> 12v seems like I'd have to carry too much battery around.
I believe you are stuck with 6v if you want a hub or bottle generator,
but I gave up 6v for 12v systems as soon as I decided to ditc them.
Alternatively, if you have electonic skills, and faster rider, look at a
voltage doubler circuit to feed the 6v generator into a 12 volt battery.
Terry Collins
> So what would be a good 12v to get? I suppose I just get a smallish
> 12v SLA and wing it?
Jaycar, supercheap Autos, etc, etc, etc sell various sizes in SLA. Feal
the weight, compare the price and try them.
I purchased mine from Jaycar and purchased their little automatic charge
to go with it. It is great for plug in, recharge and forget. Once you
see it flashing, unplug it because it will screw the battery over time.
Okay, with SLAs you have a choice, between seeing batteries as
consumables or carrying weight.
If you want to run a 20W halogen (MR16?) in those cheap automotive
driving light cases you picked up, then, for maximum battery life, you
really need a 18AmpHr SLA battery, if you follow the max discharge of
C/10, i.e 18/10 gives 1.8 amps times 12 volts gives 21(?) watts. But, it
weights 6kg(?)
OTOH, for the price these days and because you don't really want 10
hours lighting, it wouldn't hurt to get a smaller capacity battery and
save on weight, but understand that it s going to fritz in a few months.
One battery per winter?
The other catch with SLAs, discharge isn't linear. if you double the
current out, you get less than half the total
'battery". Read the battery, 18AmpHr capacity is 20 hours discharge time
(fuzz it)
Buy two and a couple of chargers. One at home on charger, use to ride to
work, plug into charger at work, use battery to ride home, then plug
into charger at home. when battery gets cactus/low capacity, move over
to second batter. alternatively take them week about. Resting seems to
help, a little.
Terry Collins
> I expect to be doing 60-90 mins.
Nice commtue.
> Possibly not with both lights all the time, but at least one.
What about tail light?
I carry an 18 AmpHr (yes I know the weight) for an occassional 30 minute
each way commute. Most of the time, it runs a 20W front plus 6 watt
taillight, but coming home for 10 minutes it runs 50watt + 20 watt (lots
of neon advertising lights along busy road). It worked okay for over a
year that I was doing this two night per week and hanging on charger the
rest of the time.
Terry Collins
>
> 12v. Nice and bright. I've been mistaken for a motorcycle
That is nice ins't it. Wife and I are zipping (for us) down a river side
combo path one night and this cop runs out screaming "SLOW DOWN, SLOWN
DOWN", then it is a loud "OH" as he realise it was just two old farts on
bicycles with bright lights {:-).
Terry Collins
> A factor of two or so for halogen, tungsten is a bit crapper though.
> Not that much. Tis what I am saying. In fact, I'm not even sure of
> that. I am not convinced that a 5W luxeon (LED) is any brighter than
> a 5W halogen. I reckon they are *fainter*!
It might be a different light distribution. I seem toremember reading
this as an explantion in a incandescent light review yonkers. One
particular light had a higher rating for cameras, but looked duller to
the human eye.
Have you loocked at them through a movie camera or other infra red
sensitive camera?
>
> I'd love to put flourescent lights on my bike, but as Zebee mentioned
> once, you'd need big optics.
Optics?. Naah, just a hummungous battery and inverter. Haven't you ever
seen those camping flourescents that run of the Dolphin touch battery?
They also sold them a "shed" lights.
Zebee Johnstone
Yeah. I have a bag that hangs off the seatback, I'm thinking of a
small lockable plastic box on the rack that has the battery (for the
homebrew lights I'm in the middle of making so I have an idea of what
the various wattages etc do) and the tools. THe lights will be
hoseclamped on, the wheels and seat have the 5 sided key skewers.
Sure, a well equipped thief will have no trouble but I'm banking on
the bike not being where such an one will a) see it and b) have time
to pinch bits. Plus I hope the bits won't be that desirable, no idea
who would want skinny 26" and 20" wheels except another bent bod for
example.
Zebee
Zebee Johnstone
Terry Collins <newsones...@woa.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Possibly not with both lights all the time, but at least one.
>
> What about tail light?
I'm going to stick with the LED flashers and rechargeable AAAs.
Zebee
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> I'd love to put flourescent lights on my bike, but as Zebee mentioned
>> once, you'd need big optics.
>
> Optics?. Naah, just a hummungous battery and inverter. Haven't you ever
> seen those camping flourescents that run of the Dolphin touch battery?
> They also sold them a "shed" lights.
Optics, because they have low surface brightness: 5 times more light
(for a given power input) comes out of an area that's about
3*10*4=120cm^2, compared to LEDs and halogens which are less than
1cm^2. So you need big optics to focus that into a usefully small
beam.
Inverters can be made tiny (I have seen a compact flouro that runs off
12v -- the inverter is in the bayonet housing. Batteries can be 5
times smaller than batteries for halogens, for a given power output.
--
TimC
Smash head on keyboard to continue.
Euan
So how do you secure your pump?
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> 1) they seem to need 15-20 km/hr to give usuable light,
> 2) you need to use myriad zener diodes to prevent bulb popping if
> zooming downhill,
And 2) is crazy talk. I donut understand why dynohubs are still
manufactured with such crazy old school technology.
Zener regulator circuits are so inefficient (for reference, they can
be built for less than $0.40). They simply suck up enough current
until the voltage after the resistor drops below the zener cutoff
voltage. Hell, a simple 3 pin voltage regulator would be more
efficient (although you lose a volt or two across them, although, low
voltage drop regulators exist, and cost less than $5). They at least
don't suck up arbitrary amounts of current -- they simply suck as much
current as the load is drawing.
But you can build switchmode regulators for less than $10 (and
wholesale prices are going to be a heck of a lot below that). Solid
state, no transformers, and simply take as much current as is needed
to satisfy I=P/V (I is current, P is power the light wants, and V is
the voltage input to the light). Wind a few more turns onto the
generator, so that you have enough voltage so the voltage drop across
the regulator doesn't cause you to get voltage dips at the output, and
if paranoid, wire in a zener and fuse to make sure the generator
doesn't generate more than the limiting input voltage of 40V typical
of a switchmode circuit. Such a circuit would almost always have
enough output voltage to satisfy the lights even at very low speeds
(dunno about enough power), would have constant light, and would be
very efficient. Remember that any inefficiencies suck up energy from
the wheel, and ultimately your legs.
But unfortunately, the consumerist society that we live in means that
people don't seem to be willing to pay an extra $10 premium on their
$150 dynohubs for the better quality circuitry. Just witness the
difficulty of buying bike light and battery setups with proper
chargers instead of constant voltage el-cheapo wallwarts (yes, I am
looking at *you*, niteflux visionstick).
> The major problem with rechargeable systems is cheap rechargers. Peeps
> leave the batteries plugged in and the recharger recharges them and
> slowly starts to overcharge/stew/destroy them.
See above rant. It should not add more than at the very most, $10
onto a $250 lighting system (again, I am looking at *you*, niteflux).
--
TimC
Experiments must be reproducible; they should all fail in the same way.
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
>> I can't believe that 50 years later it is not posible to duplicate a
>> far more efficient system than that for a bicycle using a generator,
>
> whilst there have been major advances in minaturisation of electronics,
> the basic physics of the junction transistor hasn't changed at all, so
> any rectification and regulation system tends to rob a few volts off the
> system.
Have you come across the rectification circuit using mosfets? Seems
to present itself as just a resistor in one direction (of resistance
0.1 ohms, so a win for currents less than 6 amps).
I haven't actually built this circuit, and worked out its limitations,
but I don't see why it wouldn't work:
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/mosswitch/mosswitch.htm
(hmmm, I once saw a better description of operation in an electronics
mag somewhere)
See also the more complicated:
http://www.solarbotics.net/library/circuits/misc_switching.html
--
TimC
When some other esteemed editor reposts this, it'll be the Periodic
Periodic Table Table story, and I will be even happier. ;^)
-- Emil Brink on /., about the periodic table table.
Humbug
This isn't directed at Terry but there have been so many untruths and
misconceptions bandied around in this thread it's a joke. You have made
one whoopsie though...:-) You do NOT need a voltage doubler to run a
12V globe from a normal dynamo - either hub, bottle or bottom bracket
mounted, you need a 12V 6W globe. You can duplicate that by connecting
two headlight bulbs in series.
My ancient Union dynamo produces around 60V with only the metering load
at 20kph. It produces its maximum POWER at a tad over 16V at 20kph -
maximum current at 16V is about 520mA. With a load that limits the
voltage to 6V it can only produce nearly 510mA.
To use a 12V battery with a normal dynamo (any type) just put a bridge
rectifier between the dynamo and the battery and use two normal
headlighs connected in series. Crude but effective and cheap.
For more info than you can shake a stick at have a look at the
BikeCurrent mailing list archives at
http://lists.topica.com/lists/bikecurrent/read
And for Tim. There are really only two practical ways to generate
electricity on a bike. Chemically (batteries) or by swinging a magnetic
field through a coil. That's why we still use such ancient devices as
dynamos.
--
Humbug
BE A LOOF! (There has been a recent population explosion of lerts.)
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> the weight, compare the price and try them.
>
> I purchased mine from Jaycar and purchased their little automatic charge
> to go with it. It is great for plug in, recharge and forget. Once you
> see it flashing, unplug it because it will screw the battery over time.
Gah! As I was ranting before, if it's smart enough to flash a LED, it
is trivial to turn off a freaking mosfet! Narrrrgh!
--
TimC
"COGITO, EGGO SUM." I think, therefore I am a waffle.
.sig of Mr. Ska on Slashdot.org
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> electricity on a bike. Chemically (batteries) or by swinging a magnetic
> field through a coil. That's why we still use such ancient devices as
> dynamos.
You misinterpreted. I was objecting to still using zener diodes for
regulation when much better more efficient voltage
regulation/rectification exists.
--
TimC
Computer screens simply ooze buckets of yang.
To balance this, place some women around the corners of the room.
-- Kaz Cooke, Dumb Feng Shui
Random Data
> I expect to be doing 60-90 mins. Possibly not with both lights all the
> time, but at least one.
At 10W you'd piss that in on a 4Ah gell cell. I used to run close to 2.5
hours off mine.
> Take a fair few NiMH wouldn't it?
You can get them cheap. Last time I bought 12 4.5Ah Cs it cost me around
$70. That's lighter and better capacity than a 4Ah gell cell for around
double the price. You'd also get away with 12 2.2Ah AAs.
Using 12 is pushing the envelope a little, but I've found AAs tend to sag
a bit under load, so 11 gives 12V. Going to 12 shouldn't hurt. With the Cs
you'd get away with 10 cells.
--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
"Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer."
- Peter da Silva
Random Data
> No, no, no. Stay well away from Tony's site. You will end up spending
> valuable bicycle funds on lighting project. {:-).
Yeah, my site's so much safer for your funds. Oh wait...
http://hired-goons.net/lights/
--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
"Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results."
- Ben, ASR
Friday
> In aus.bicycle on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 13:44:18 +1100
> Random Data <spam...@hired-goons.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:58:11 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Anyone got any idea where I can get 6v halogen bulbs? Not MR16 lights,
>>>but bulbs, similar to Jaycar SL2722 but 6v?
>>
>>Rare as hen's teeth, and generally expensive, depending on exactly what
>>you're after. Stick with 12V. P=VI remember? So you halve your current for
>>a given power with 12V instead of 6, and 12V stuff is a lot easier to get
>>hold of.
>
>
> So what would be a good 12v to get? I suppose I just get a smallish
> 12v SLA and wing it?
>
Nicads or nimh is about 70% of the weight of a SLA, I bought a Lithium
Ion battery through eBay and the weight was 64% of my NiMh battery. (3
amp hour). The charger for the Lithium battery was really cheap too. I
got it from Hong Kong, they use them in radio controlled battery powered
helicopters. It's hard to believe there is so much power packed into
something so light! I use twin 5 watt Luxeons.
Terry Collins
>
> Have you come across the rectification circuit using mosfets?
Vaguely, I remember exploring this suggestion in the past, but it never
seems to lead to a circuit that I can build and use on my bicycle.
Plenty of major power ideas and circuits and I've even built 240V based
projects, but nothing usable in 6V or 12V for a bicycle.
> I haven't actually built this circuit, and worked out its limitations,
> but I don't see why it wouldn't work:
This is the problem. Theory and practice can be entirely different. I am
only talking about my experience and what I've built for my bicycle.
If someone can provide a circuit and say I've been using this whilst
commuting/touring for the last year, then I'll build it and see for myself.
As I'm not a circuit designer, only a project builder, I'll just have to
keep waiting.
Does anyone know if Willy Hunts circuits are mosfet based?
Terry Collins
> On 12/03/06 at 14:22:22 Terry Collins somehow managed to type:
>
> This isn't directed at Terry but there have been so many untruths and
> misconceptions bandied around in this thread it's a joke. You have made
> one whoopsie though...:-) You do NOT need a voltage doubler to run a
> 12V globe from a normal dynamo -
> My ancient Union dynamo produces around 60V with only the metering load
> at 20kph.
Lots of stuff produces high voltage at open circuit too.
> It produces its maximum POWER at a tad over 16V at 20kph -
> maximum current at 16V is about 520mA. With a load that limits the
> voltage to 6V it can only produce nearly 510mA.
8 Watts at 20kph you say.
First problem, I don't know of a source of 16V globes
Second problem, # I've never been able to consistently ride at 20kph.
Frankly, I can not say I know of too many people that ride like that
either. I'm an 8-10kph plodder.
However, if you are a strong rider, might be worth experimenting, if you
are still into incandescent bicycle globes.
Humbug, what was the generator you use?
I used a voltage doubler to try and pump power from my hub generator
during the day into a battery pack for lights whilst camping at night.
In the end, I decided just buying batteries was cheaper (based on prices
15 years ago {:-).
> And for Tim. There are really only two practical ways to generate
> electricity on a bike. Chemically (batteries) or by swinging a magnetic
> field through a coil. That's why we still use such ancient devices as
> dynamos.
I'd really like some sources of magnesium plates for seawater power
cells, aka WWII. Basically a large we battery without acid.
>
Random Data
> If someone can provide a circuit and say I've been using this whilst
> commuting/touring for the last year, then I'll build it and see for
> myself.
The very cheap and nasty constant current regulator on
http://hired-goons.net/lights (see LED) worked for me for quite some time.
It's not totally regulated, and does throw some energy away, but for
supply voltage not too far off required voltage it's pretty good.
I've got a slightly refined version running my current lights. 18 months+
on the two, with one blowout due to cramming too much wire in to a small
space and then having a DC plug fail and short it out.
Oh, and 2 yrs+ on the 5W version.
> Does anyone know if Willy Hunts circuits are mosfet based?
Yep, the original version was something along the lines of a 555 timer
driving the gate. Now it's a PIC so he can do smart things like adjusting
the duty cycle depending on battery condition and having multiple outputs.
--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
Random miscellany, as opposed to that other kind of miscellany
- Patrick Shaughnessy
Spiny Norman
<newsones...@woa.com.au> wrote in aus.bicycle:
>
>> Modern LEDS give out so much light and use so little power that a
>> battery of 6 each front and rear should be doddle to power.
>
>6 x 5 Watt is still 30 watt.
That may be so but I didn't have 5 watt LEDS in mind. I have a three
LED Cateye EL200 (from memory) powered by 4 AA cells and the batteries
have been in use for months (12 km one way a day - coming home in
daylight). The light is more than sufficient to see by and be seen. I
had six of these LEDS in mind.
These high powered lights are totally unnecessay on urban roads and
even on an unlit country stretch my Cateye is more than enough to warn
me of any obstacles.
Regards
Prickles
Timendi causa est nescire
This message only uses recycled electrons
Zebee Johnstone
Spiny Norman <pric...@memento.mori.com> wrote:
>
> These high powered lights are totally unnecessay on urban roads and
> even on an unlit country stretch my Cateye is more than enough to warn
> me of any obstacles.
Problem I had the other night was an unlit cycle path. They meander
in an unpredictable way, so if going any speed you need to see path
edges well ahead.
I kept reaching for the high beam switch!
Zebee
Terry Collins
> http://hired-goons.net/lights (see LED) worked for me for quite some time.
I've been watching your projects over the years for ideas. {:-)
> and then having a DC plug fail and short it out.
I've given up on just about all the plugs over the years. Most rattle
and come loose, dropping lights and shorting sockets (internal jacks,
etc). You just have to laugh when you see the remains of a socket
splattered all over the inside of your project box and your battery pack
exploded for a straight short. aaaarrghhhhh.
Now I am using PP2030 (4 wire) and PP2032 (6 wire) from
http://www.jaycar.com.au. No problems over two years and a bit of bad
weather. (okay, one broken wire at an exposed junction strip {:-).
Terry Collins
> These high powered lights are totally unnecessay on urban roads and
> even on an unlit country stretch my Cateye is more than enough to warn
> me of any obstacles.
I am glad to hear that your eyes are still good {:-) and I hope they
remain that way.
Mine are not, although they can still use a $19.99 el cheapo head led
with 3 leds to wander around a camp in total darkness, but there is no
way I'd ride my bicycle, even pottering along with out something
equivalent to a 20W light. The 50W is needed over 20kms (down hills) so
I can avoid stuff on dark roads safely.
Humbug
> On 2006-03-12, Humbug (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> > And for Tim. There are really only two practical ways to generate
> > electricity on a bike. Chemically (batteries) or by swinging a
> > magnetic field through a coil. That's why we still use such ancient
> > devices as dynamos.
>
> You misinterpreted.
Oh, OK - my brain was probably clouded by bloody work stuff.
> I was objecting to still using zener diodes for
> regulation when much better more efficient voltage
> regulation/rectification exists.
Zeners are probably about the best way of establishing a base voltage.
For bike lighting systems all they do is dissipate excess power as heat
but they ARE cheap and simple - just two of 'em back to back, a couple
of dabs with a soldering iron and the jobs done. Just think of 'em as
bulb protection rather than voltage regulation. There are loads of
better ways, Willy Hunts LVR, for example, is claimed to be VERY
efficient indeed.
--
Humbug aka VK3ZMF
Humbug
<snip>
> 8 Watts at 20kph you say.
I only used 20kph as the speed for testing purposes. ie. I wanted to
introduce a constant.
> First problem, I don't know of a source of 16V globes
Me either - that was ONLY at the "sweet spot" for the dynamo. I was
trying to find out what its maximum POWER output would be at 20kph by
varying the load while measuring voltage and current.
<snip>
> Humbug, what was the generator you use?
It's an ancient Union bottom bracket mounted job. Second picture down
at http://www.yellowjersey.org/dynamos.html
>
> I used a voltage doubler to try and pump power from my hub generator
> during the day into a battery pack for lights whilst camping at night.
> In the end, I decided just buying batteries was cheaper (based on
> prices 15 years ago {:-).
You would've been a LOT better off using a bridge rectifier connected
between the dynamo and the battery. Even with a piss-weak Sturmey
Archer hub dynamo you can charge 12V batteries via a simple bridge
rectifier, albeit bloody slowly...:-)
--
Humbug aka VK3ZMF
Terry Collins
OTOH, 16V meant you didn't have to worry about losses across bridge
rectifiers, etc to recharge a 12V battery pack.
> You would've been a LOT better off using a bridge rectifier connected
> between the dynamo and the battery. Even with a piss-weak Sturmey
> Archer hub dynamo you can charge 12V batteries via a simple bridge
> rectifier, albeit bloody slowly...:-)
Not at my riding speed it wasn't. That was the point. I've just never
ridden faster that 15kms average, usually regarded 10km/hr average as a
good speed. Talking about a days tour.
I'd tried the full wave bridge (tag point circuit)
ah, yes, the hub was also glitzed as well. Really needed a new one, but
funds went into the bricks and motar pension fund (the home, then
infestment property,,,,,,).
Random Data
> I've given up on just about all the plugs over the years.
I was just about to suggest PP2030 type things when I read your second
paragraph. If you're running multiple systems and want to make sure you
can't hook up the wrong one DSE do a non-compatible version, and you can
get NARVA branded ones at most auto parts shops.
If you're using 2.5mm DC plugs I've found putting a short lenght of ~5mm
PVC tube (not heat shrink) over either part provides a much more
secure join.
--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
Careful. We don't want to learn from this. -- Calvin
Terry Collins
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:05:31 +1100, Terry Collins wrote:
>
>
>>I've given up on just about all the plugs over the years.
>
>
> I was just about to suggest PP2030 type things when I read your second
> paragraph. If you're running multiple systems and want to make sure you
> can't hook up the wrong one DSE do a non-compatible version, and you can
> get NARVA branded ones at most auto parts shops.
There are a whole range of the sort used internally in computers for
power supplies to hard disk, etc. Probably a lot cheaper that the $6 &
$8 Jaycar list the PP2030? at, but I didn't think they were waterproof
enough, i.e. I suspect you have to replace them occassionally from rust
from wet weather.
>
> If you're using 2.5mm DC plugs I've found putting a short lenght of ~5mm
> PVC tube (not heat shrink) over either part provides a much more
> secure join.
Until today, I thought they would have been too light for the currents
involved, but I found out that Canon puts 3.5A through one for a laptop.
So I might reconsider these for non-critical power. Do these ever open
circuits (lights go out)?
Friday
>
>
> Until today, I thought they would have been too light for the currents
> involved, but I found out that Canon puts 3.5A through one for a laptop.
> So I might reconsider these for non-critical power. Do these ever open
> circuits (lights go out)?
That's the beauty of my twin luxeon setup. They run off separate current
regulators so that if one should fail for any reason I still have plenty
of light to get home with.
Peter Signorini
"Terry Collins" wrote:
> The caveats with hub, bracket, bottle generators are
> 1) they seem to need 15-20 km/hr to give usuable light,
> 2) you need to use myriad zener diodes to prevent bulb popping if
> zooming downhill,
> 3) they stop when you stop (some capacitor/battery combo might help
> here) and
> 4) some part has to be left on the bike (usually minimum of generator)
> all the time (theft, weather, weight, etc).
Your experience with hub and bottle dynamos may be a little out of date.
Points 1, 2 & 3 no longer apply if you get the right dynamo. Have a look
around http://www.stkildacycles.com.au/ site, especially the schmidts
dynohub, the B&M Dymotec S6 (or S12 if the finances run that high - 70%
efficiency) and the B&M Oval plus headlight, or the Oval Plus Senso.
All these are excellent lighting gear, operate at full output at 10 kmh,
voltage regulation that works, and the Oval Plus light has a capacitor that
functions as a standlight when stopped.
Point 4 is a bit academic, as dynamo lights are not really bicycle bling
gear that thieves look out for, and they need tools to remove them, unlike
those very portable battery setups.
>
> OTOH, now it would be interesting to see a system driving good leds
> compared to the old incandescent bulb jobs.
That'd be the B&M D'Topal Senso Plus on the same site. LED light that has a
100,000 hour service life, shines at 2.5 kmh and runs of a 6V dynamo Mind
you, at $125, it's beyond my lighting budget.
--
Cheers
Peter
~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)
Peter Signorini
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
> Peter Signorini <pet...@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Personally I've been yery happy with my Busch & Muller S6 dynamo. It is a
>> side-wall unit but runs with very low friction. Full output comes on at
>> 10
>> kmh or less, and it has a built-in zenner diode to regulate high speed
>
> How does it go in the wet? I've heard bottles slip?
I've not used it yet in the wet, as I don't often ride at night. My commute
is almost always daylight hours. I do use it with tyres that have a dynamo
serration around the sidewall and I'd expect this would make a big
difference. It also has a wire roller for European winter ice and snow.
> The cost of the hub did make me blink, a bottle seems a more
> reasonable proposition.
>
> I expect I'll need lights over the next few months, but can also see
> that for 3 months of the year at least I won't, and shelf life might
> annoy me then.
Yes, just discovered the impact of this on this weekend's tour. Using our
tandem for a short night ride into town from camp, pulled out the battery
light to discover it totally flat - battery switch had been moved while in
the handlebar bag. Of course I should have reversed the batteries, but the
point is I didn't and the light is dead. I can see another dynamo coming
soon for the tandem.
Terry Collins
> Your experience with hub and bottle dynamos may be a little out of date.
Most probably
> you, at $125, it's beyond my lighting budget.
Isn't that all our problems?
The one time my income could afford such expenditures I was too busy
working and too busy sleeping when I wasn't working to bicycle anywhere.
Sadly, one's priorites tend to be to pay off the house and buy
investments at those time.
Nowadays, I know that my bicycle electrical needs (wants?) will only be
met by carrying a battery.
cogcontrol
I have some cheap lights
to be going on with, but I want something decent.
-The two are not compatible-
I am very much inclining towards dynamo lighting as batteries have to
be recharged and I am sure I forgot my head once when I was running
late, so forgetting the charge is almost a given.
-Go dynamo all the way, bottle or hub, that's another discussion. Why
dynamo? my bike is my transport. I want to go any where at any time, i
do not want to be tied by battery duration or lumbered with spares.
Can you imagine how many people would drive a car if every time you
wanted to drive after dark, you had to carry a battery out to the car
to run the lights.
Costly but my Schmidt and Lumotech have done over 40,000km, the odd
blown bulb and lots and lots of night riding.
Tim
-
--
cogcontrol
Zebee Johnstone
cogcontrol <cogcontr...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>
> -Go dynamo all the way, bottle or hub, that's another discussion. Why
> dynamo? my bike is my transport. I want to go any where at any time, i
> do not want to be tied by battery duration or lumbered with spares.
Well right now I have a homebrew battery setup half made - the rest
will be done tonight once I have done this stuff work wants me to do.
1 55 watt, 1 10 watt. The 10 will be the usual one, the 55 will be
"high beam"....
A while with that and I'll have a much better idea of what I need.
And will probably go to dynamo if the battery gives me the shits.
Major hassle I can see with dynamo is not having enough light after
playing withthat...
Zebee
Peter Signorini
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
> Well right now I have a homebrew battery setup half made - the rest
> will be done tonight once I have done this stuff work wants me to do.
>
> 1 55 watt, 1 10 watt. The 10 will be the usual one, the 55 will be
> "high beam"....
>
> A while with that and I'll have a much better idea of what I need.
> And will probably go to dynamo if the battery gives me the shits.
>
> Major hassle I can see with dynamo is not having enough light after
> playing withthat...
Are you planning to ride around the streets in town with that, or off-road
trails and country lanes?
If it's around town you're really going overkill. Even on quiet residential
streets there's enough ambient lighting from street lights, home lighting,
city light loom, etc, that a good 3W light should be quite OK. Your main
traffic concern is the rear anyway, and a couple of bright LED flashers and
well placed reflectors will set you up in that regard.
These super-duper batttery light sets are often poorly designed and actually
a hazard for other cyclists, especially on the bike paths. Think 'high-beam
blindness'. Proper bike lights for road use (eg. 3W dynamo lights) have
better optics that cuts out the high beam element. In the extreme case of a
55W light, do you really want to blind that car driver approaching you a
80kmh?
Zebee Johnstone
Peter Signorini <pet...@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
>
> Are you planning to ride around the streets in town with that, or off-road
> trails and country lanes?
The main hassle is bike paths at night. Which, judging by the other
night, need serious lighting.
I suspect the lights I'm playing with at the moment don't have a good
lens, so I'll be checking out other people's dynamo lights as well to
see what they are like.
> These super-duper batttery light sets are often poorly designed and actually
> a hazard for other cyclists, especially on the bike paths. Think 'high-beam
> blindness'. Proper bike lights for road use (eg. 3W dynamo lights) have
> better optics that cuts out the high beam element. In the extreme case of a
> 55W light, do you really want to blind that car driver approaching you a
> 80kmh?
I'm unlikely to use it on the road, and I'd dim the light for an
approaching driver just as I would if on a motor vehicle. That's why
it is switched.
Zebee
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> trails and country lanes?
>
> If it's around town you're really going overkill.
Because you are better dark adapted when there are no street lights, I
would say it was overkill for unlit roads, but not on the streets.
I have often been jealous when a motorbike passes me, when I have my
15W blaring away. 15W is plenty to see obstacles closeby, but it's
not enough to see some potholes. It's also not bright enough in
bright shopping centres like bridge road, Richmond, where the general
din of lights makes yours fade into the background. That's precisely
the place where you want car drivers to see you before they see other
things, so they don't feel tempted to pull out in front of you from
that carpark while you are riding next to tram tracks.
> Even on quiet residential
> streets there's enough ambient lighting from street lights, home lighting,
> city light loom, etc, that a good 3W light should be quite OK.
We evidentally disagree here. 3W is a great be seen light, but when
there is street lighting around and your dark adaption is destroyed,
3W has never, for me, lit the ground up any more than the street
lights have, which is of course, inadequate.
> Your main
> traffic concern is the rear anyway,
Eh? It's always been people turning in front of me, or pulling out in
front of me.
> These super-duper batttery light sets are often poorly designed and actually
> a hazard for other cyclists, especially on the bike paths. Think 'high-beam
> blindness'. Proper bike lights for road use (eg. 3W dynamo lights) have
> better optics that cuts out the high beam element. In the extreme case of a
> 55W light, do you really want to blind that car driver approaching you a
> 80kmh?
That's why high beam switches were invented, Peter.
--
TimC
Tim flies like an arrow -- Donald Weldh on RHOD
Terry Collins
> Can you imagine how many people would drive a car if every time you
> wanted to drive after dark, you had to carry a battery out to the car
> to run the lights.
Why not mount it permanently.
If your a weight weenie, back/buy a bottle cage pack.
Otherwise a bit of ironstrappong and some bolts securely fastens it to
the rack.
Friday
Why not? he blinds me with his 200 watts!