Application Rejection Question

[whitemice]

>>...we will test all of the submissions to make sure that they actually run on the version of the emulator specified in the submission application...<<
[The Android Developer Challenge Judging Process]

I have made an "application platform" and will be submitting a number
of separate entry's that require this to be previously installed on
the emulator in order to run. I.e. install executable (a) then
install executable (b).

If you try and first install executable (b) it will show a "helpful"
error message saying you need to first download executable (a) from a
website. I will include this file as part of the documentation ZIP,
as well as document the installation process the readme file.

Is it likely that some of my non-standalone applications be rejected
out of hand (i.e. by the poor guy who has to test each of the
thousands of buggy submissions)?

Regards
Mark

[Dan Morrill]

Hi, Mark!

Each application will be tested separately in a clean installation of the emulator (i.e. using the -wipe-data option.)  Judges will not be able to install pre-requisite or dependency .apk files.

You should definitely package your application (including all platform components) into a single .apk file, one for each submission.

- Dan

[Fern]

Hello Dan,

Could I have some clarification on how the -wipe-data will be used.

Does that mean that once the application is installed multiple judges
will reuse the same application? So the -wipe-data option is used only
to remove other submission apps.

Or,

Each judge will receive a newly minted app? So the -wipe-data option
is used after every judge and the app reinstalled, such that when the
next judge uses the submission he/she will be the first person to ever
use it.

Thanks,
Fern

> > Mark- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Dan Morrill]

Judges will be located around the world, so each will be using a separate computer, rather than sharing computers.  The emulator will be restarted with the -wipe-data option between applications, on every judge's computer.

- Dan 

[Fern]

Thanks for the quick and timely reply.

You have just saved me at least 4 hours of coding. :)

Cheers,
Fern

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Peli]

Dan,

Relying on information we got here earlier:
http://groups.google.com/group/android-challenge/msg/2e7a129be6646dd0
we have several apk files that need to be installed on the same device
to show all functionality (i.e. accessing content providers across
application boundaries). We were planning to put them all together
into a zip file and provide a readme file how to install all
applications. (no web connection necessary).

I hope this is still permitted...

Peli

On Apr 8, 5:08 pm, "Dan Morrill" <morri...@google.com> wrote:
> Hi, Mark!
> Each application will be tested separately in a clean installation of the
> emulator (i.e. using the -wipe-data option.) Judges will not be able to
> install pre-requisite or dependency .apk files.
>
> You should definitely package your application (including all platform
> components) into a single .apk file, one for each submission.
>
> - Dan
>

[r a f t]

hi dan,

will the judges be inspecting same application at the same time ? how
will you coordinate inspection of multi-user (gtalk) applications ?
for example mine is a gtalk app. and it makes no sense to run one
instance.

r a f t

[whitemice]

>>We were planning to put them all together into a zip file and provide a readme file how to install all applications.<<

I second that.

I have an application framework that is intended for use by 3rd party
applications (Android content provider model and all that). Can I
provide two applications in a zip and have the judge install them in
sequence?

[r a f t]

indeed i wish i knew this "judges all around the world" thingy
earlier. i had written the document assuming judges will be together:
one first emulator do this, on second do that etc. now it doesnt make
sense and i'm afraid it will be a bit confusing too :/

r a f t

[mickrobk]

I too have a multi-user app over g-talk. How are the judges going to
be testing this part? will they?

[whitemice]

Hi Dan
Thanks for getting back to me on this.
You seem to be saying that the process will reject all 3 of my
submissions at stage 1?

As I said, a single executable isn't appropriate for my application.

To make things as easy as possible for the judges, I am providing
simple instructions (i.e. install "app1" then install "app2"). If
they make a mistake my application will show a friendly error message
when "app1" isn't available, and even suggest that the judge downloads
or installs it.

It would seem unfair for the submission procedure disqualify this kind
of application?
Some clarification on this issue, or perhaps a change in the
submission procedure to a ZIP file would be helpful at this point.
Regards
Mark

[Muthu Ramadoss]

Can you bundle them all into a single app? If you face the danger of
outright rejection, can you not take the extreme step of jamming
everything together into one single apk?

--
Thanks.

Muthu Ramadoss
http://mobeegal.in http://androidrocks.in http://intellibitz.com
http://twitter.com/intellibitz http://linkedin.com/in/tellibitz
http://slideshare.net/intellibitz
http://groups.google.com/group/android-chennai
+91 44 22476750

We develop innovative search solutions using LBS for Android.

[whitemice]

To avoid a counterproductive and timeconsuming rewrite, how about this
on start up?
-----------------------------------------
This application is WORKING JUST FINE!
To make it work even better, just go and install the xxx.apk file that
is included in the ZIP file and then restart this application.
All this is documented in the xxx.pdf document which can also be found
in the ZIP file.
-----------------------------------------
Regards
Mark

[Diego Torres Milano]

I took a "counterproductive and time consuming rewrite" just to
discover that some applications can't coexist under the same package.
So the question is: are frameworks evaluated as applications ?

[whitemice]

I feel your pain, although I will stick with an explanatory start
screen for the poor guy doing the SDK compatibility tests. I am
assuming that the tester is there to check for null pointer exceptions
and stuff, and will leave the quality and functionality testing to the
judges (comment from anyone at Google?)

Isn't it ironic that while Android promotes building "Federations" of
applications, their own challenge demands that it all sits on one
executable.

[Diego Torres Milano]

What about tihs previous post by Megha Joshi in Developers forum:
http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/ba5dcc35bb9d52d/0f871405630d416f?lnk=gst&q=questions+w.r.t.#0f871405630d416f

"
Hi,

That is fine, but just as a safety net include all your content in a
zipped
file( *** there is a /or will be a link to upload zips on the ADC
submission
site ***)
Try to include as much details as you can in the README file.

Thanks,
Megha
"

I thought it was an officila Google answer.
Now, I don't know what to think or trust...
TIA

[Megha Joshi]

Hi,

To clarify, what Dan said is that you should definitely package your application (including all platform components) into a single .apk file, one for each submission.
My post earlier was about documentation zip and Dan's post was about the single executable .apk.

1) There is one .apk file and that is the only executable per submission, which will be installed on the emulator.
2) If there is any other stuff like documentation, instructions, etc, which will not be installed on the emulator you should submit those contents in a single zip file.

Thanks,
Megha

[Megha Joshi]

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:53 PM, mickrobk <mick...@gmail.com> wrote:

I too have a multi-user app over g-talk. How are the judges going to
be testing this part? will they?

A single judge will fire two or more emulator instances on his machine to test applications like g-talk which require communication between 2 or more devices.

Thanks,
Megha

[Adam S]

Dan,

Please note that this reply is NOT meant to be inflammatory, so please
don't take it as such.

Perhaps you guys (Google, OHA) didn't completely think this one
through. You wanted developers to create applications for the Android
platform that would differentiate it from the other mobile platforms.
However, did you ever consider that such differentiation could come
about via the development of software designed to support a mobile
Android device that doesn't actually run on that device? What if part
of the differentiation, and the draw for an application, comes from
its ease of installation versus existing mechanisms for doing the same
thing on other platforms? I know that this sounds kind of vague but
it's a very important point. For a concrete example of what I'm
talking about please check out my submission (it will be under Adam
Spencer). There is a flash video at my site (referred to via the
documentation for my submission) that demonstrates my point much more
clearly. The reason I'm not giving the site out here (in a public
forum) is because it's only meant for ADC judges at the moment.

The reason why I want you to check it out is because I believe that a
huge part of the "public appeal" of my app is the simplicity for the
end (non-technical) user in regard to using it - which includes
installation. However, this is something that can only really be
appreciated by a judge actually walking through the install process.
You wanted us to think out of the box for this contest, I did ... and
now I kind of feel like before the judging even really gets started
I've been punished for it.

Was it documented somewhere that judges would not be a part of the
install process for the apps? If it was then I missed it. If not,
then you just eliminated some segment of your submitted applications
based on criteria that weren't previously disseminated. Sure, maybe
that segment is small but those could be some of the best apps!

regards,
Adam

On Apr 8, 11:08 am, "Dan Morrill" <morri...@google.com> wrote:

> Hi, Mark!
> Each application will be tested separately in a clean installation of the
> emulator (i.e. using the -wipe-data option.) Judges will not be able to
> install pre-requisite or dependency .apk files.
>
> You should definitely package your application (including all platform
> components) into a single .apk file, one for each submission.
>
> - Dan
>

[Incognito]

I don't see why they should eliminate you. From what I read above you
provided an easy way to install apps into android. Completely valid.

>>Was it documented somewhere that judges would not be a part of the
>>install process for the apps?

Dan Morril was referring to those people that required complex
installations besides just th apk. i.e, installing a ROM, or an
executable file on the computer. This goes above and beyond just
installing an apk. However, if what you provided is an apk that then
allows you to search and find more applications and install them with
ease then you should be ok. Even if you provided a link to a website
that allows a user to do this I still think you are OK although
borderline.

No, I don't think you will be eliminated.

[Adam S]

Hi Incognito, thanks for the reply. My submission *does* need an
additional executable to be installed *besides* the .apk which is what
concerns me. I hope you're right but part of the beauty of my app
(IMHO of course) is how easily it handles doing something with a
handheld which up until now has been a pain in the rear! "Dumbing
down" the process for accomplishing this for a non-tech user was a big
portion of my idea.

thanks,
Adam

[sagar]

Hi Dan,
If the application somehow fails to work on the device,as is the
normal case in software industry, but there is a working demo which is
made available on the website in the format of the flash file , will
it be considered ??
One more question-
Any way to know whether our application has been evaluated or not,
because the hit counter on the website, where we have installed the
demo of the apps that we submitted to the challenge, is not
changing.The hit count of the page is all the same :] . Does that mean
judges won't check the demo on the website at all ????

please reply to this message .