Re: Jews role in the American Civil War
Rob Cypher
>On Sep 7, 4:39 am, "Tom Potter" <tdp1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> As most folks know,
>> Jews instigated and profited from the Class Wars of the 1900's,
>> and they are instigating and profiting from the Religious Wars of the
>> 2000's.
>
>This anti-semitic posting has been approved by Tom's Red Chinese
>masters.
>
>Here's something else "as most folks know": you're a certified idiot.
Were there more Jews in the Union army or the Confederate side?
That is an interesting question.
--
robcypher.livejournal.com
Mike Stone
"Rob Cypher" <bal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2oonj3t91s2r04d12...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:00:37 -0700, akl...@attbi.com wrote:
>
> Were there more Jews in the Union army or the Confederate side?
> That is an interesting question.
Probably Union.
Afaik, most Jews (like most "ethnic" groups other than Blacks) lived in the
North.
--
Mike Stone - Peterborough, England
A housepainter found himself running short of paint halfway through the job.
So he thinned the paint, despite knowing this would spoil the work. As he
surveyed the finished job, he heard the still small voice of conscience
"Repaint , repaint, and thin no more".
Stan Boleslawski
> "Rob Cypher" <bals...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:2oonj3t91s2r04d12...@4ax.com...
>
> > On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:00:37 -0700, akl...@attbi.com wrote:
>
> > Were there more Jews in the Union army or the Confederate side?
> > That is an interesting question.
>
> Probably Union.
>
> Afaik, most Jews (like most "ethnic" groups other than Blacks) lived in the
> North.
According to Wikipedia, there were 8000 Jews in the Union army and
1500 in the Confederate army.
Best,
Stan B.
B'enjamin C'ramer
"Stan Boleslawski" <boles...@forpresident.com> wrote in message
news:73ebaf6e-5da6-47a9...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Now there's a great source of unbiased, honest, accurate and objective
information. Particularly when it refers to yids.
Robert J. Kolker
> Probably Union.
>
> Afaik, most Jews (like most "ethnic" groups other than Blacks) lived in the
> North.
Benjamin Judah lived in the South. But he was only the secretary of war.
Bob Kolker
Robert J. Kolker
>
> Now there's a great source of unbiased, honest, accurate and objective
> information. Particularly when it refers to yids.
>
>
>
>
Hey schmuck! Why don't you change your first name?
Bob Kolker
Rambler III
"Mike Stone" <mws...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5q2c8uF...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
> "Rob Cypher" <bal...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:2oonj3t91s2r04d12...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:00:37 -0700, akl...@attbi.com wrote:
>>
>> Were there more Jews in the Union army or the Confederate side?
>> That is an interesting question.
>
>
> Probably Union.
What does the answer prove? The same if the question was:
Were there more women in the Union Army or the Confederate Army?
Where there more old men - those over age 40, ...
Were there more minors - those under age 18, ...
Were there more men with missing right index fingers...
or
ElParedon
ElParedon
"Stan Boleslawski" <boles...@forpresident.com> wrote in message
news:73ebaf6e-5da6-47a9...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
YOU CAN ANSWER THAT YOU ARE A BETTER LIAR THAN I THOUGHT!
JEWS WERE SLAVERS AND LIVED IN DEEP SOUTH IN THOSE DAYS, READ:
http://www.blacksandjews.com/Jews_and_Slavery.html
ElParedon
"B'enjamin C'ramer" <onlyt...@alltimes.yo> wrote in message
news:zradnXTpEbK0j6Ha...@giganews.com...
And Boleslawski is the source of bullshit!
ElParedon
"Robert J. Kolker" <bobk...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:VP6dndrEu-9276Ha...@comcast.com...
ElParedon
http://www.blacksandjews.com/Jews_and_Slavery.html
ElParedon
"Rambler III" <Ramb...@xyz.com> wrote in message
news:1M%_i.24398$if6....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
http://www.blacksandjews.com/Jews_and_Slavery.html
Ray O'Hara
> news:2oonj3t91s2r04d12...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:00:37 -0700, akl...@attbi.com wrote:
> >
> > Were there more Jews in the Union army or the Confederate side?
> > That is an interesting question.
>
>
> Probably Union.
>
> Afaik, most Jews (like most "ethnic" groups other than Blacks) lived in
the
> North.
>
> --
>
> Mike Stone - Peterborough, England
in those days the south was very friendly to jews.
i dount a jew could have risen as high in the union as did judah p benjamin
did the the CS government.
phoebe yates pember who wrote "a southern womans story" was from a socially
prominant jewish family.
Ray O'Hara
you might want to recheck that name's order
plus he started at cs attorney general.
them sec of war and finally sec of state.
Mike Stone
"Ray O'Hara" <mary.p...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:X_ydnc5d1t4FOKHa...@rcn.net...
>
> "Robert J. Kolker" <bobk...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:VP6dndvEu-8z76Ha...@comcast.com...
> >
> > Benjamin Judah lived in the South. But he was only the secretary of war.
> >
> > Bob Kolker
> >
>
>
>
> you might want to recheck that name's order
>
> plus he started at cs attorney general.
> them sec of war and finally sec of state.
>
>
I read somewhere that it was a standing joke in Confederate circles that
Benjamin was given every Cabinet office in turn. Having sorted out the mess
his predecessor had made, he moved on to do the same in his next department,
and by the time he'd gotten through all of them it would be time for him to
start again and sort out the messes his _successors_ had made since he left.
Matt Giwer
Despite the current mythology it was a war for states rights even if one of the
rights was to own slaves. So the most likely answer is the same fraction of
however many there were in the states. The oldest Jewish enclaves in the US are
in the south. It is not a canard. Jews were big in the slave trade so when ready
to retire the south was the most likely place. (Both old and new testaments
approve of slavery despite current theology.]
--
A strange people we are. Women get men to compete to give them everything
they need and much of what they want in order to have the privilege of
giving them an orgasm.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3994
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
To learn what Israel is really like read haaretz.com and jpost.com a15
Stan Boleslawski
wrote:
> "Stan Boleslawski" <boleslaw...@forpresident.com> wrote in message
Yids?
What does Tottenham Hotspur have to do with the American Civil
War? ):
scribe7716
> I read somewhere that it was a standing joke in Confederate circles that
> Benjamin was given every Cabinet office in turn. Having sorted out the mess
> his predecessor had made, he moved on to do the same in his next department,
> and by the time he'd gotten through all of them it would be time for him to
> start again and sort out the messes his _successors_ had made since he left.
Benjamin had little to do as Attorney General in a CSA that lacked
federal courts. He was a disaster as War Secretary. By the time he
became Secretary of State there was little he could do. The secret to
Benjamin's "success" was that he cozzied up to Davis so well.
Barry
antagonistic to Southerners & Southern heritage, Jews were largely
sympatheric to the Confederacy at the time. It was after the advent of
Communism & Zionism and the huge wave of eastern Ashkenazi immigrants after
the war, that Jews turned against the people of the South. Eastern Jews
living in northern cities were far less sympathetic to the South than the
Sephardic & German Jews who had settled in the South, and had become a
minority within the Jewish population by 1900.
Today, Jewish publishers, TV producers, & film makers routinely bash &
villify white Southerners as they do Germans, but that was not always the
way things were. 100 years ago, a large segmant of the Jews resident in the
US were of German origin and most were friendly towards Germany which had a
history of favorable treatment of religious minorities. Russia, which had a
long history of anti-jewish pogroms, was hated by Jews. Within a few years,
though, Jewish feelings changed. Rabbi Steven Wise, a lifelong Republican,
switched his allegience to the Dems to support Wilson, puppet of pro-Zionist
bankers, and encouraged US entry into WW1 against Germany and the Ottoman
Empire which occupied Palestine at the time. By then, the Russian czar had
been murdered by Jews & the country was in the control of Jewish radicals,
who had been financed by Jacob Schiff & other jewish bankers in the US.
Thus began the long love affair of US & European Jews for Communism & Russia
in particular. In the US, the love of Jews for Marxism is expressed in the
rabid hatred for white Christians, especially white Southerners, so often
seen in public life, literature, media, & government. White Southerners have
always held closely to their Christian heritage and valued their gene pool
and have been resistant to Marxist ideals which include race-mixing,
abolition of religion, monetary control, and confiscation of private
property. Jews in the US constantly depict themselves as friends of the
negro, while in reality they despise the negro as much as anyone; only using
the negro as a battering ram against white Christians, whom they hate. Much
more could be said on this subject, but I have cast enough pearls this
morning.
"Matt Giwer" <jul...@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote in message
news:473ce705$0$19788$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
flores...@hotmail.com
> Were there more Jews in the Union army or the Confederate side?
> That is an interesting question.
They made up most of the Carpetbagger Army.
GRANT, USYSSES S. 19th century American general, politician. While in
command of the 13th Army Corps, headquartered at Oxford, Mississippi,
he became so infuriated at Jewish camp-followers attempting to
penetrate the conquered territory that he finally attempted to expel
the Jews: "I have long since believed that in spite of all the
vigilance that can be infused into post commanders, the special
regulations of the Treasury Department have been violated, and that
mostly by Jews and other unprincipled traders. So well satisfied have
I been of this that I instructed the commanding officers at Columbus
to refuse all permits to Jews to come South, and I have frequently had
them expelled from the department, but they come in with their carpet-
sacks in spite of all that can be done to prevent it. The Jews seem to
be a privileged class that can travel anywhere. They will land at any
woodyard on the river and make their way through the country. If not
permitted to buy cotton themselves, they will act as agents for
someone else, who will be at military post with a Treasury permit to
receive cotton and pay for it in Treasury notes which the Jew will buy
up at an agreed rate, paying gold. (Letters to C. P. Wolcott,
assistant secretary of war, Washington, December 17, 1862)
1). The Jews, as a class, violating every regulation of trade
established by the Treasury Department, and also Department orders,
are hereby expelled from the Department.
2). Within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order by Post
Commanders, they will see that all of this class of people are
furnished with passes and required to leave, and anyone returning
after such notification, will be arrested and held in confinement
until an opportunity occurs of sending them out as prisoners, unless
furnished with permits from these headquarters.
3). No permits will be given these people to visit headquarters for
the purpose of making personal application for trade permits. By order
of Major Gen. Grant Jno. A. Rawlings, Assistant Adjutant General
(General Order Number 11, December 17, 1862)
The expulsion order was immediately countermanded by the general-in-
chief, H. W. Halleck, in Washington. Apparently the expelled Jews had
immediately contacted their kinsmen there and had pressure brought to
bear.
SHERMAN, WILLIAM T. 19th century American soldier. In a letter from
Union-occupied Memphis, July 30, 1862, he wrote: "I found so many Jews
and speculators here trading in cotton, and secessionists had become
so open in refusing anything but gold, that I have felt myself bound
to stop it. The gold can have but one use -- the purchase of arms and
ammunition . . . Of course, I have respected all permits by yourself
or the Secretary of the Treasury, but in these new cases (swarms of
Jews), I have stopped it." (The Sherman Letters)
ROSS, L. F. 19th century American military man. As did Generals
ULYSSES S. GRANT and WILLIAM T. SHERMAN, Ross confronted Jewish
'carpetbagging' cotton traders preying upon captured Confederate areas
during the Civil War. In a letter to General John A. McClernand, he
wrote: "The cotton speculators are quite clamorous for aid in the
getting their cotton away from Middleburg, Hickory Valley, etc., and
offer to pay liberally for the service. I think I can bring it away
with safety, and make it pay to the Government. As some of the Jew
owners have as good as stolen the cotton from the planters, I have no
conscientious scruples in making them pay liberally to take it away."
OLMSTED, GREDERICK LAW. 19th century American architect, historian. "A
swarm of Jews has, within the last ten years, settled in every
Southern town, many of them men of no character, opening cheap
clothing and trinket shops, ruining or driving out of business many of
the old retailers, and engaging in an unlawful trade with the simple
Negroes, which is found very profitable. (The Cotton Kingdom. For
other views on Jewish involvement in exploiting the South, see ULYSSES
S. GRANT and MARK TWAIN.)
TWAIN, MARK (S. L. Clemens). 19th century American writer. "In the
U.S. cotton states, after the war . . . the Jew came down in force,
set up shop on the plantation, supplied all the Negroes' wants on
credit, and at the end of the season was the proprietor of the Negro's
share of the present crop and part of the next one. Before long, the
whites detested the Jew.
F~A~R~V~A: Last of the Post-hicans
wrestling ng!
--
>>> _
>>> /'_/)
>>> ,/_ /
>>> / /
>>> /'_'/' '/'__'7,
>>> /'/ / / /" /_\
>>> ('( ' /' ')
>>> \ /
>>> '\' _.7'
>>> \ (
>>> \ \
"Kick him when he's down, he's easier to reach."
---Scott Hall
#1 ranked poster in RSPW history....
Alan Meyer
news:-eqdndq6w_zzXKDa...@comcast.com...
> ... <long racist and anti-semitic diatribe elided> ...
> Much more could be said on this subject, but I have cast
> enough pearls this morning.
Pearls indeed Barry.
I take it you are the Barry Hackney of the Nationalist Movement,
and _All the Way_ newspaper in Mississippi. If so, I'm sure it's
a waste of our time to argue with you. You are deeply committed
to your position and not likely to change now.
Nevertheless, I feel some obligation to try. It's an obligation
I feel to myself, to other readers of the newsgroup and, yes,
even to you.
I'd like to invite you to imagine what it would be like to live
in a world without hate. Imagine living in a world where you
could walk into a room full of Blacks or Jews or Mexicans and
neither hate them nor feel any hatred from them.
Imagine walking down the street and not having to bristle at some
people or shrink from others.
Imagine going to work and sitting down next to a black man or a
Jewish man and working together on a problem - both of you
feeling pleased and gratified when you solve it, maybe sharing
some beers together afterwards.
It's a simpler world. It's a world where you don't have to be on
guard all the time. It's a world where a whole set of anxieties,
fears, and angry reactions just fade away.
You might think that the only way to create a world like that is
to populate it only with people who look like you. But that
policy doesn't actually work. When you put a group of haters
together, they always wind up finding things to hate in each
other. The problem is not the differences between us, because
there are always differences between people. The problem is that
we are too often unwilling to accept those differences, get past
them, and see what we all have in common - which is a great deal.
You've chosen a path of isolation and conflict. You've imagined
yourself to be surrounded by a tiny band of brothers just like
you - all at war with the rest of the world. But the war doesn't
really need to be fought and the band of brothers doesn't have to
be tiny. You could be surrounded by a world of brothers and
sisters instead of a small community of people who are always
watching each other and guarding against each other and the rest
of the world, and always looking for a fight.
I don't see other people as aliens who are in some inevitable
conflict with me. I see them as folks who are more like me than
different and who, like me, are trying to make a living and get
along.
You could too.
Oh and by the way, if you do serious research you'll find that
very few of the propositions in your diatribe are true.
Alan
Fred Kasner
> Rob Cypher wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:00:37 -0700, akl...@attbi.com wrote:
>>> On Sep 7, 4:39 am, "Tom Potter" <tdp1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> As most folks know,
>>>> Jews instigated and profited from the Class Wars of the 1900's,
>>>> and they are instigating and profiting from the Religious Wars of the
>>>> 2000's.
>>> This anti-semitic posting has been approved by Tom's Red Chinese
>>> masters.
>>> Here's something else "as most folks know": you're a certified idiot.
>
>> Were there more Jews in the Union army or the Confederate side?
>> That is an interesting question.
>
> Despite the current mythology it was a war for states rights even if
> one of the rights was to own slaves. So the most likely answer is the
> same fraction of however many there were in the states. The oldest
> Jewish enclaves in the US are in the south. It is not a canard. Jews
> were big in the slave trade so when ready to retire the south was the
> most likely place. (Both old and new testaments approve of slavery
> despite current theology.]
>
Nonsense. Jews arrived in the colony of New Amsterdam in the early 17th
century. They had been expelled by the Portuguese from Brazil and were
permitted to stay in what became New York long before there was a
southern colony other than at Jamestown in Virginia.
FK
flores...@hotmail.com
> "Barry" <barryhack...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:-eqdndq6w_zzXKDa...@comcast.com...
>
> > ... <long racist and anti-semitic diatribe elided> ...
> > Much more could be said on this subject, but I have cast
> > enough pearls this morning.
>
> Pearls indeed Barry.
>
> I take it you are the Barry Hackney of the Nationalist Movement,
> and _All the Way_ newspaper in Mississippi. If so, I'm sure it's
> a waste of our time to argue with you. You are deeply committed
> to your position and not likely to change now.
>
> Nevertheless, I feel some obligation to try. It's an obligation
> I feel to myself, to other readers of the newsgroup and, yes,
> even to you.
>
> I'd like to invite you to imagine what it would be like to live
> in a world without hate.
I have no idea who Barry Hackney or his group is (however I
see you are quite familiar with him/it), but I'll pipe in.
Jews are alway using the H word and it is
now apparently Hate(tm), kind of like Holocaust(tm). The incredible
irony is that most Jews (esp. Zionist Jews) are
the biggest haters in the world. You have perfected the art
of projection to the finest degree. But yes, I am afraid your
group is rather despised by much of the world, and has been
for ages. Why is that? Could your own hate, bigotry, cruelty
and hypocrisy have something to do with it? Nah.
> Imagine living in a world where you
> could walk into a room full of Blacks or Jews or Mexicans and
> neither hate them nor feel any hatred from them.
That would be nice, happens a lot on TV. But let's you imagine
a scenario for a moment. Imagine an Israel full of Blacks, Jews
Mexicans and Palestinians living in harmony with a happy, multi-
cultural goverment and population, coming together, solving
problems together, maybe having a beer together......
Tell us about it Alan. What would be wrong with that? Show
us that you are not just another hypocritical Jew telling us about
this utopian dream that doesn't sound so wonderful to you when
it involves putting away hate and bigotry on your part.
Ray O'Hara
"Fred Kasner" <fka...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:hnn%i.10985$yV6....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
the oldest in the english colonies might be in newport ri where truro
synagog m the oldest in america , and hadam ct. which goes back to the
earliest days of new england.
puritans in mass used to consult with the jews in hadam when they were
having trouble interpeting a passage in the old testement.
Barry
BS about "hate", you attack me, but you never bother to address one of the
facts I stated. You just call it anti-semitic drivel. Most of our resident
trolls could have done better. You have proven again that no hate compares
with Talmudic hate.
"Alan Meyer" <ame...@yahoo.com> quacked in message
news:Y72dnW1WheSHYqDa...@comcast.com...
Ray O'Hara
> Oh, such typical drivel. You write paragraph after paragraph of
sanctimonius
> BS about "hate", you attack me, but you never bother to address one of the
> facts I stated. You just call it anti-semitic drivel. Most of our resident
> trolls could have done better. You have proven again that no hate compares
> with Talmudic hate.
he summed you up perfectly naziboy.
he offered you advice you should heed.
you call yourself a christian while while standing against all of christs
teachings.
Rambler III
"Matt Giwer" <jul...@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote in message
news:473ce705$0$19788$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> A strange people we are. Women get men to compete to give them
> everything
> they need and much of what they want in order to have the privilege
> of
> giving them an orgasm.
> -- The Iron Webmaster, 3994
> nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
The author of the quote and you by quoting him reveals that both of
you are misogynists.
What's you partner's nickname, "Rocky"?
Alan Meyer
I don't think I actually attacked you. I merely invited you to
think differently about some things. I certainly said nothing
about your race, class, religion, or region - as you did about
mine.
I'm also not sure what you mean by "Talmudic hate". I've never
read the Talmud. I guess "Talmud" here just means "Jewish".
Furthermore, I'm not a religious man and don't believe in God,
but I guess for you "Jewish" doesn't mean a religion but a race
(whatever that is), or an ethnic group. I was indeed born of
Jewish parents.
As for the resident trolls, I confess that many of them are no
doubt better than I at addressing these issues.
However, you are right that I didn't bother to address any of the
supposed facts that you stated - though the same could be said of
you. As often happens in these kinds of conversations, our talk
goes past each other.
Let's begin with the most fundamental assumption behind your
entire posting, which is that Jews are both rich bankers and
media moguls, and at the same time, communists. That, of course,
is an extraordinary contradiction, but it's found in all the
usual anti-semitic propaganda, including yours.
How can a person be the owner of a bank, TV network or newspaper
and at the same be in favor of the expropriation of banks and
private companies by the state? I guess you could do that if you
were very stupid and/or totally uninterested in your own economic
future, but you don't seem to be implying that Jews are either
stupid or lacking in self-interest.
A second proposition in your posting is that Jews were once
pro-German and became anti-German, and were anti-Russian and
became pro-Russian.
I'm not exactly sure when or why you're claiming this happened.
You said that Germany before the Nazis was tolerant of Jews and
Russia under the Czars oppressed them (true I think - though
toleration was a relative thing.) You said that the bulk of
the Ashkenazi Jews arriving in the U.S. were from Eastern Europe
(also true I think). In fact, a great many of them were fleeing
anti-semitism in the Russian Empire, which included most of
modern day Poland, the Baltic states, and other areas where Jews
lived.
But then you argue that Jews somehow talked Wilson into fighting
on the side of the Russian Empire that hated Jews against the
Germans who tolerated them?
Huh? Why was that?
You say "the Russian czar had been murdered by Jews". Which Czar
and which Jew? Nikolai Rysakov, the man who killed Alexander II
in 1881 didn't have a Jewish name. He belonged to the Narodnaya
Volya, a populist party that had very few Jews in it. Nicholas
II was executed during the Russian civil war, but didn't the
orders come from Lenin - certainly no Jew?
You say "... the country was in the control of Jewish radicals,
who had been financed by Jacob Schiff & other jewish bankers in
the US. Read the article on Schiff in the Wikipedia. Schiff's
firm would not do business with Tsarist Russia. When the
February Revolution occurred and Kerensky (not a communist!) came
to power, Schiff rescinded the ban. When Kerensky was overthrown
in the October Revolution and Schiff learned about the new
communist regime Schiff withdrew support. The author of the
Wikipedia article asserts: "Of course, once the policies and
doctrines of Lenin's and Trotsky's Soviet government became
apparent, Schiff once more became bitterly opposed to aiding
Russia in any way." It also points out that, although Schiff
contributed to Jewish communities in Palestine, as elsewhere, he
did not endorse Zionism.
You say "... the love of Jews for Marxism is expressed in the
rabid hatred for white Christians..."
Is Marxism equated here to hatred of white Christians? Why would
that be? It is true that Marxism has been opposed to religion,
but it was opposed to all religions - Judaism, Islam, and others
in addition to Christianity. Until the Chinese revolution, the
vast majority of Marxists in every country had white and
Christian backgrounds.
As for rabid hatred, I grew up with Jews and knew hundreds of
them. I met some who didn't like Christians. However to tell
you the honest truth, I never met a single one whom I would
describe as having a "rabid hatred" for Christians, white or
otherwise.
How many Jews do you really know Barry? You're not describing
people that I know, and I grew up in the Jewish community and
knew hundreds of them.
I have met a number of people who called themselves "Christian"
(but did not live but what I think of as Christian principles)
who hated Jews. Growing up, I was insulted by some and
physically assaulted by some. My father and grandfather, growing
up in an earlier era in the U.S. frequently had to fight to
defend themselves against anti-semitic assaults. I have seen
nothing like that coming from the Jewish community.
You said, "Jews in the US constantly depict themselves as friends
of the negro, while in reality they despise the negro as much as
anyone; only using the negro as a battering ram against white
Christians, whom they hate."
I have met lots of racist Jews, and I've met anti-semitic black
people. Unfortunately, bigotry is often found among people who
are themselves victims of it. However, there is no doubt that
all of the principal Jewish organizations, like all of the
mainstream Christian organizations, have been steadfastly opposed
to racism. The American Jewish Committe, the Anti-Defamation
League, the Simon Wiesenthal Center, and many others have
vehemently opposed racism and put both money and effort into
combatting it.
Does that address your points?
Alan
"Barry" <barryh...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:IoydnTJ5Ofn2jaPa...@comcast.com...
Ray O'Hara
"Alan Meyer" <ame...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LtGdnbe4EJXnzKPa...@comcast.com...
.
>
> Let's begin with the most fundamental assumption behind your
> entire posting, which is that Jews are both rich bankers and
> media moguls, and at the same time, communists. That, of course,
> is an extraordinary contradiction, but it's found in all the
> usual anti-semitic propaganda, including yours.
>
that was always my favorite too.
fools like the naziboy can post both accusations in the same sentenvce
without a hint of irony seeping into his bb sized brain.
using logic on naziboy barry is a waste.
B'enjamin C'ramer
>
> "Alan Meyer" <ame...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:LtGdnbe4EJXnzKPa...@comcast.com...
> .
>>
>> Let's begin with the most fundamental assumption behind your
>> entire posting, which is that Jews are both rich bankers and
>> media moguls, and at the same time, communists. That, of course,
>> is an extraordinary contradiction, but it's found in all the
>> usual anti-semitic propaganda, including yours.
>>
>
> that was always my favorite too.
Yet they've managed to be both.
True communism never really existed in the Soviet Union. Too many haves
(yids) and too many have nots.
Barry
read carefully, you would have noticed that I simply stated known historical
facts without making any racial slurs, insults or any calls for any person
or ethnic group to be mistreated. I made no blanket attacks on your race or
religious tradition. Rather than going to the trouble to check out the facts
I stated, you went to the effort to check me out on the net in a search for
ammunition to use to attack the messenger instead of the message you did not
want to deal with. You then proceeded to imply that I am a hater, a racist,
etc. Now, you want to have an adult conversation about the things I stated
and I am supposd to take you seriously. I will attempt to reply to your post
below your text. I will make it a point to avoid any personal attacks,
ethnic slurs or name-calling.
"Alan Meyer" <ame...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LtGdnbe4EJXnzKPa...@comcast.com...
> Barry,
>
> I don't think I actually attacked you. I merely invited you to
> think differently about some things. I certainly said nothing
> about your race, class, religion, or region - as you did about
> mine.
Not true- I simply stated historical events.
>
> I'm also not sure what you mean by "Talmudic hate". I've never
> read the Talmud. I guess "Talmud" here just means "Jewish".
The Talmud contains many things which could be regarded as bigoted, racist,
chauvenistic, etc. within it.
It is not regarded as a holy book by either of us, and neither of us are
experts on it or want to be.
The Talmud pertains to the Jewish faith and those who practice it.
> Furthermore, I'm not a religious man and don't believe in God,
> but I guess for you "Jewish" doesn't mean a religion but a race
> (whatever that is), or an ethnic group. I was indeed born of
> Jewish parents.
What does "Jewish" mean to you? Hermann Wouck stated it pretty well and you
are a Jew by ancestry if not by religion if your parents are Jews.
Jewishness is both a religious faith and a enthnicity or race.
>
> As for the resident trolls, I confess that many of them are no
> doubt better than I at addressing these issues.
Trolls are capable only of spewing BS, not dealing with facts. Fred would be
capable if he could get past his anger & hate, but that is hard for him to
do.
>
> However, you are right that I didn't bother to address any of the
> supposed facts that you stated - though the same could be said of
> you. As often happens in these kinds of conversations, our talk
> goes past each other.
>
> Let's begin with the most fundamental assumption behind your
> entire posting, which is that Jews are both rich bankers and
> media moguls, and at the same time, communists. That, of course,
> is an extraordinary contradiction, but it's found in all the
> usual anti-semitic propaganda, including yours.
I do not deal in propaganda or "supposed facts", only in historical facts
which have not and can not be refuted, though your propagandists often try
to cover them up. It is no contradiction that Marxism comes from wealthy
bankers, once it is examined carefully. Only those who take a superficial
look at it see a contradiction. Capitalists have always been the best
friends of Communist dictators and have financed them and protected them.
The concept of marxism was originally conceived by an American of Jewish
descent named Clinton Roosevelt and subsequently adopted & expanded upon by
Moshe Levi Mordechai aka Karl Marx. Communism was a tool of the wealthy
elite from the beginning which masqueraded as a movement of the working
classes and helped the rich concentrate their power while eliminating the
nobility & middle class with the help of the scum. On the surface, it may
seem a contradiction that Jewish financiers would secretly back Hitler, but
they did and they had a reason for what they did.
>
> How can a person be the owner of a bank, TV network or newspaper
> and at the same be in favor of the expropriation of banks and
> private companies by the state? I guess you could do that if you
> were very stupid and/or totally uninterested in your own economic
> future, but you don't seem to be implying that Jews are either
> stupid or lacking in self-interest.
I am not implying that Jews are stupid or lacking in self-interest. Why
would Jacob Schiff, president of the Kuhn, Loeb & Co. send $5 million of
gold to fellow Jews Lenin and Trotsky , when Lenin wanted to overthrow the
goyish nobility & set up a Jewish dictatorship in Russia? Beccause he wanted
to help set up a state in which rich elites like himself and his friends
controlled everything and the people had nothing.
>
> A second proposition in your posting is that Jews were once
> pro-German and became anti-German, and were anti-Russian and
> became pro-Russian.
Do you deny that?
>
> I'm not exactly sure when or why you're claiming this happened.
> You said that Germany before the Nazis was tolerant of Jews and
> Russia under the Czars oppressed them (true I think - though
> toleration was a relative thing.) You said that the bulk of
> the Ashkenazi Jews arriving in the U.S. were from Eastern Europe
> (also true I think). In fact, a great many of them were fleeing
> anti-semitism in the Russian Empire, which included most of
> modern day Poland, the Baltic states, and other areas where Jews
> lived.
No arguement here...
>
> But then you argue that Jews somehow talked Wilson into fighting
> on the side of the Russian Empire that hated Jews against the
> Germans who tolerated them?
> Huh? Why was that?
Wilson did not go to war on the side of the Czar, he went to war on the side
of the Bolsheviks who had deposed the Czar and plundered the country.
>
> You say "the Russian czar had been murdered by Jews". Which Czar
> and which Jew? Nikolai Rysakov, the man who killed Alexander II
> in 1881 didn't have a Jewish name. He belonged to the Narodnaya
> Volya, a populist party that had very few Jews in it. Nicholas
> II was executed during the Russian civil war, but didn't the
> orders come from Lenin - certainly no Jew?
Lenin was a Jew or part Jew & his Jewish henchman butchered the entire royal
family and their servants.
>
> You say "... the country was in the control of Jewish radicals,
> who had been financed by Jacob Schiff & other jewish bankers in
> the US. Read the article on Schiff in the Wikipedia. Schiff's
> firm would not do business with Tsarist Russia. When the
> February Revolution occurred and Kerensky (not a communist!) came
> to power, Schiff rescinded the ban. When Kerensky was overthrown
> in the October Revolution and Schiff learned about the new
> communist regime Schiff withdrew support. The author of the
> Wikipedia article asserts: "Of course, once the policies and
> doctrines of Lenin's and Trotsky's Soviet government became
> apparent, Schiff once more became bitterly opposed to aiding
> Russia in any way." It also points out that, although Schiff
> contributed to Jewish communities in Palestine, as elsewhere, he
> did not endorse Zionism.
Schiff did what was necessary to take the czar out and put Lenin in power.
Schiff was very closely aligned with the Rothschild family, and aided in
their work, both in Russia & in Palestine. i hope you dod not rely on
Wikipedia for your facts!
>
> You say "... the love of Jews for Marxism is expressed in the
> rabid hatred for white Christians..."
>
> Is Marxism equated here to hatred of white Christians? Why would
> that be? It is true that Marxism has been opposed to religion,
> but it was opposed to all religions - Judaism, Islam, and others
> in addition to Christianity. Until the Chinese revolution, the
> vast majority of Marxists in every country had white and
> Christian backgrounds.
Communists have always been more opposed to Christianity than they have been
to other religions and Christians have always opposed Communism more than
most other faiths have. In Russia, Lenin closed churches & murdered
Christian clergy, but not Synagogues. Under his rule, Russia became the
first country in the world to outlaw anti-semitism. New synagogues were
built in Russia while Lenin was in power, & construction did not cease until
Stalin came to power. Stalin, whose real name "Dzhugasvili" means "jews son"
or "Jewison" in Georgian, persecuted religious people of all faiths. The
vast majority of
Lenin's & Trotsky's (Bronstein's) commissars were not Christian but were
Jews, presumably atheistic Jews, as the core of communist movements in most
countries has been. Jews with the US administrations such as Harry Dexter
White did their part to help the reds take over China. Jews were the
backbone of the communist movement to topple the Republic of S Africa, and
major backers of the So. west African Communist Party and SWAPO. Joe Slovo
was a Lithuanian Jew.
>
> As for rabid hatred, I grew up with Jews and knew hundreds of
> them. I met some who didn't like Christians. However to tell
> you the honest truth, I never met a single one whom I would
> describe as having a "rabid hatred" for Christians, white or
> otherwise.
>
> How many Jews do you really know Barry? You're not describing
> people that I know, and I grew up in the Jewish community and
> knew hundreds of them.
I am referring to the elites in the media and on university faculties, not
about the average Jews I may meet in the work place or in social situations.
The average Jew seems content to have his beliefs and let me have mine, just
as I am content to let anyone practice any religion or no religion. I do not
see many of those average Jews protesting when the ACLU or the ADL or the
SPLC attempts to abridge the religious freedoms or free expression of
Christians, though.
>
> I have met a number of people who called themselves "Christian"
> (but did not live but what I think of as Christian principles)
> who hated Jews. Growing up, I was insulted by some and
> physically assaulted by some. My father and grandfather, growing
> up in an earlier era in the U.S. frequently had to fight to
> defend themselves against anti-semitic assaults. I have seen
> nothing like that coming from the Jewish community.
>
> You said, "Jews in the US constantly depict themselves as friends
> of the negro, while in reality they despise the negro as much as
> anyone; only using the negro as a battering ram against white
> Christians, whom they hate."
>
> I have met lots of racist Jews, and I've met anti-semitic black
> people. Unfortunately, bigotry is often found among people who
> are themselves victims of it. However, there is no doubt that
> all of the principal Jewish organizations, like all of the
> mainstream Christian organizations, have been steadfastly opposed
> to racism. The American Jewish Committe, the Anti-Defamation
> League, the Simon Wiesenthal Center, and many others have
> vehemently opposed racism and put both money and effort into
> combatting it.
Don't forget the ACLU, the Lawyers Guild, and the SPLC.!
Most of the outfits you listed are opposed to WHITE racism and
anti-semitism, but are some of the worst Jewish racists and religious bigots
themselves. They love to help minorities and homosexuals get the upper hand
over white Christians but never mention minority crime against whites or the
jim crow type oppression imposed upon the Palestinians. The so-called museum
of tolerance is very hateful towards white Christians! I will believe the
majority of Jews are truly tolerant when I see them protest against Ernst
Zundel's harsh treatment for questioning the number of Jews who perished in
the hollocaust. When will Jews say "I disagree with what you say, but will
defend to the death your right to say it." ??
Jewish tolerance is firebombing the home or office of someone you disagree
with as happened to Zundel in '96 or demanding that a Christmas tree or a
manger scene be removed from a public place.
B'enjamin C'ramer
> Yes, you addressed or danced around some of my points this time. Had you
> read carefully, you would have noticed that I simply stated known
> historical
> facts without making any racial slurs, insults or any calls for any person
> or ethnic group to be mistreated. I made no blanket attacks on your race
> or
> religious tradition. Rather than going to the trouble to check out the
> facts
> I stated, you went to the effort to check me out on the net in a search
> for
> ammunition to use to attack the messenger instead of the message you did
> not
> want to deal with. You then proceeded to imply that I am a hater, a
> racist,
> etc. Now, you want to have an adult conversation about the things I stated
> and I am supposd to take you seriously. I will attempt to reply to your
> post
> below your text. I will make it a point to avoid any personal attacks,
> ethnic slurs or name-calling.
That is their usual reponse to criticism.
Matt Giwer
> While it is true today that a large segment of Jews in the US are
> antagonistic to Southerners & Southern heritage, Jews were largely
> sympatheric to the Confederacy at the time. It was after the advent of
> Communism & Zionism and the huge wave of eastern Ashkenazi immigrants after
> the war, that Jews turned against the people of the South. Eastern Jews
> living in northern cities were far less sympathetic to the South than the
> Sephardic & German Jews who had settled in the South, and had become a
> minority within the Jewish population by 1900.
I can recite the problems and drawbacks of all the religions I have looked at
in practice. If you want to talk about changing the character of the US it was
the German immigration that had the greatest and longest lasting effect as they
were farmers, ranchers and city tradesmen. (German includes what is now Polish.)
The last westward movement dominated by Brits and Scots was Kentucky. Ohio and
points west were German/Poles until you get to the leapfrog of the west coast.
Later immigrants, Irish, Italians and Jews stayed mainly in the east coast and
near Midwest cities. There were other groups but they were not in numbers to
spark immigration reform debates in Congress.
Your supposed issues with Jews here is simply buying into the nonsense idea
that NYC symbolizes America, the same idiocy that said the WTC was a symbol of
America. Luckily the 9/11 folks were equally dumb in buying into that myth else
we might have lost something important.
So the jewish NYC newspapers didn't like the South. They didn't much like north
Jersey either until they moved to it. And then South Jersey better not get uppity.
--
The only remaining defense of Israel is to say those who tell the truth
about Israel are antisemitic. The truth is only the truth. It cannot be
antisemitic.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3879
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
flying saucers http://www.giwersworld.org/flyingsa.html a2
Horatio
> "Alan Meyer" <amey...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
==========
Barry belongs in prison for hate speech. A Hillary presidency will
enact laws that will put people like Barry away for promoting hatred
and racism.
Neo-Confederates, supporters of Southern Heritage, the United Whores
of the Confederacy and the Bastard Sons of the Confederacy all need to
be investigated by Federal authority and, if found guilty of treason,
executed by firing squad, according to the provisions of Federal law
dealing with such matters.
The lingering legacy of the White South is responsible for America`s
flawed foreign policy.
scribe7716
<flyhighfreeeb...@aol.compost> wrote:
> scribe7716 will never be able to wash off the stink after posting to a
> wrestling ng!
People who watch professional wrestling should not be allowed to
vote. People who pay to watch professional wrestling should not be
allowed to breed.
F~A~R~V~A: Last of the Post-hicans
Cracker Jack
<scrib...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Nov 16, 2:20?pm, "F~A~R~V~A: Last of the Post-hicans"
I use to feel the same way. But as I grow older I have concluded
that all professional sports have more similarities to pro wrestling
than differences. So I have no more respect for a fan of pro
football than one of rastling.
May all pro sports fans become winners of the Darwin Award.
Ray O'Hara
"Cracker Jack" <aw...@dixie.org> wrote in message
news:ev7uj3dle8gpdjdeh...@4ax.com...
the jocks used to trap you in your locker i see.
scribe7716
<flyhighfreeeb...@aol.compost> wrote:
> abe lincoln would not agree with those sentiments, hypocrite.
Lincoln espoused the common man not the comon moron.
F~A~R~V~A: Last of the Post-hicans
Cracker Jack
<mary.p...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>"Cracker Jack" <aw...@dixie.org> wrote in message
>news:ev7uj3dle8gpdjdeh...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 07:13:33 -0800 (PST), scribe7716
>> >People who watch professional wrestling should not be allowed to
>> >vote. People who pay to watch professional wrestling should not be
>> >allowed to breed.
>>
>> I use to feel the same way. But as I grow older I have concluded
>> that all professional sports have more similarities to pro wrestling
>> than differences. So I have no more respect for a fan of pro
>> football than one of rastling.
>>
>> May all pro sports fans become winners of the Darwin Award.
>
>
> the jocks used to trap you in your locker i see.
The jocks in my high school probably didn't have enough intelligence
to find my locker -- it being close to the science lab. But for the
record I have no problem with the boys who engage in amateur athletics
in high school. The same can't be said for the non-unionized
professional morons in college sports. It's at the college level
that they begin to travel with an "entourage". When kids in the
Italian neighborhoods do that, it's referred to as "organized crime".
Give me one significant difference between Chris Benoit -- the
wrestler who killed himself -- and Barry Bond the ball player who,
unfortunately, has not. I mean as far as character. We know about
Bond what we only suspect about most pros. He is an indicted liar
and a cheat.
If I had a young child about age 10 to 17, boy or girl, there are
two things I would not want them watching on TV. Pro sports and XXX
rated movies. Even though I must admit they would see people of
higher character in the movies.
OK, end of rant.
the Bede
"scribe7716" <scrib...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:74aa7249-92dd-4dd6...@i37g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 17, 10:15?am, "F~A~R~V~A: Last of the Post-hicans"
<flyhighfreeeb...@aol.compost> wrote:
> abe lincoln would not agree with those sentiments, hypocrite.
Lincoln espoused the common man not the comon moron.
no, Lincoln espoused Mary Todd.
Barry
the real logical reasons behind apparent contradictions..He is a room
temperature IQ moron with a nasty mouth, ie a troll turd.
"B'enjamin C'ramer" <onlyt...@alltimes.yo> wrote in message
news:frydneVuBqBWxqPa...@giganews.com...
Barry
"B'enjamin C'ramer" <onlyt...@alltimes.yo> wrote in message
news:uImdneKpBMdP5KPa...@giganews.com...
fla...@verizon.net
Correction: impotent mosogynists who can't get laid.
Susan
B'enjamin C'ramer
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:wWR%i.7855$xt5.2093@trnddc07...
Why would a mosgynist[sic] want to get laid, you stupid, dyslexic, thick
Irish cunt?
scribe7716
> Were there more Jews in the Union army or the Confederate side?
> That is an interesting question.
Alan Meyer
> Yes, you addressed or danced around some of my points this time. Had
> you
> read carefully, you would have noticed that I simply stated known
> historical
> facts without making any racial slurs, insults or any calls for any
> person
> or ethnic group to be mistreated. I made no blanket attacks on your
> race or
> religious tradition. Rather than going to the trouble to check out the
> facts
> I stated, you went to the effort to check me out on the net in a
> search for
> ammunition to use to attack the messenger instead of the message you
> did not
> want to deal with. You then proceeded to imply that I am a hater, a
> racist,
> etc. Now, you want to have an adult conversation about the things I
> stated
> and I am supposd to take you seriously. I will attempt to reply to
> your post
> below your text. I will make it a point to avoid any personal attacks,
> ethnic slurs or name-calling.
I appreciate your restraint. I also agree that you were, indeed,
careful not to make any racial slurs or insults or call for any
mistreatment of persons or ethnic groups. I think I probably
read your posting with some predjudices of my own, for which I
hereby apologize.
My comments are interspersed. I have elided all of the sections
that came after your last posting for brevity. Anyone wishing to
read the full history of our interchange can go back to the
originals.
> "Alan Meyer" <ame...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:LtGdnbe4EJXnzKPa...@comcast.com...
>> Barry,
>>
>> I don't think I actually attacked you. I merely invited you to
>> think differently about some things. I certainly said nothing
>> about your race, class, religion, or region - as you did about
>> mine.
>
> Not true- I simply stated historical events.
Forgive me for reading more into your posts than you intended.
>> I'm also not sure what you mean by "Talmudic hate". I've never
>> read the Talmud. I guess "Talmud" here just means "Jewish".
>
> The Talmud contains many things which could be regarded as bigoted,
> racist,
> chauvenistic, etc. within it.
> It is not regarded as a holy book by either of us, and neither of us
> are
> experts on it or want to be.
> The Talmud pertains to the Jewish faith and those who practice it.
>
>> Furthermore, I'm not a religious man and don't believe in God,
>> but I guess for you "Jewish" doesn't mean a religion but a race
>> (whatever that is), or an ethnic group. I was indeed born of
>> Jewish parents.
>
> What does "Jewish" mean to you? Hermann Wouck stated it pretty well
> and you
> are a Jew by ancestry if not by religion if your parents are Jews.
> Jewishness is both a religious faith and a enthnicity or race.
As you say, neither of us is expert in the Talmud or wants to be.
I won't comment further on it.
To me, Judaism is a religion. I believe that there are also
Jewish ethnic groups. However there are far more than one of
them. The Jews of Poland, for example, have a very different
ethnicity from, say, the Jews of Morocco, or Yemen, or Iran, or
France. Even among what we call "Ashkenazi" Jews, there are
really quite different ethnicities - German, Polish, Lithuanian,
Russian, Roumanian - all these people had some shared culture but
also some different culture - just as Christians from the same
countries had different cultures, or as Lutherans, Baptists,
Anglicans and Catholics have both shared culture and different
cultures.
Today, Jewish ethnicity is much compressed and much modified.
Jews no longer exist in any numbers in most of the countries
where there were historical communities, including all of Europe
and North Africa. There is a fascinating film about a very old
Jewish Holocaust survivor who goes to Israel hoping to find Jews.
To her suprise, hardly anyone speaks Yiddish. She says, "I went
to Israel to find Jews, but there were no Jews, only Israelis."
The traditional Jewish culture of central and Eastern Europe is
gone.
However, under no circumstances, today or in the past thousand
years, would it make any sense to call Jews a "race" - if by
"race" we mean a genetically related group. My Dad, for example,
had blond hair and blue eyes. He looked far more "Aryan" than
did, say, Adolf Hitler or most of the Nazi bigwigs. The Jews of
Morocco (there were 250,000 of them at the beginning of this
century) were physically indistinguishable from Arabs of
Morocco. An Israeli Jew of Moroccan descent whom I met described
himself as a "Jewish Arab", a very reasonable characterization
from the point of view of physical descent.
...
I doubt if Clinton Roosevelt had much influence on Marx. Far
more important influences were Saint Simon, Owen and Fourier, and
other pre-Marxian European socialists, all of whom were
Christians. Read any standard history of Marxism and you'll see
that.
But leaving that aside, it is an extraordinary confusion to
imagine that wealthy bankers have sponsored Marxism, or that
capitalists have always been the "best friends" of Communist
dictators. And the idea that Jewish financiers secretly backed
Hitler is absurd. You are standing the facts on their heads.
Every established history of capitalism, communism, and Naziism
disagrees with you. Can you cite even one book by any well known
historian that agrees with any of those assertions? I'm not
talking about Holocaust deniers like David Irving who have been
proven in court to lie in their books.
The Nazis were equal opportunity murderers of Jews. They killed
rich and poor, young and old, male and female, all alike. Rich
Jews were favorite targets of the Nazis because they wanted to
steal everything they could from them. Though, to be fair, they
were also eager to steal from poor Jews and from non-Jews, and
apparently like to kill innocent babies as well as bankers.
I agree with you that neither communism nor fascism brought
equality of income. I agree that the ideology of communism was
exploited by opportunists who personally enriched themselves at
the expense of the working class - though I don't put Lenin or
Trotsky in that class. But it's just dead wrong to imagine that
capitalist bankers of any religion or ethnic group were behind
it.
A multi-millionaire doesn't need to change the social order in
order to enjoy privileges. He's got what he wants already.
Social upheaval and revolution are the very last thing he wants
to happen.
There were Jews among the supporters of the Russian revolution,
but by and large they weren't the rich Jews. The rich people of
all religions and ethnic groups who were able to, left Russia.
Many Jews supported the revolution for the very reason that you
yourself described in an earlier post. They hated the tsarist
regime which had victimized them in innumerable ways. But rich
people of any background were happier with what they had under
the tsar than with the revolution, which impoverished everyone
before it enriched anyone.
>> How can a person be the owner of a bank, TV network or newspaper
>> and at the same be in favor of the expropriation of banks and
>> private companies by the state? I guess you could do that if you
>> were very stupid and/or totally uninterested in your own economic
>> future, but you don't seem to be implying that Jews are either
>> stupid or lacking in self-interest.
>
> I am not implying that Jews are stupid or lacking in self-interest.
> Why
> would Jacob Schiff, president of the Kuhn, Loeb & Co. send $5 million
> of
> gold to fellow Jews Lenin and Trotsky , when Lenin wanted to overthrow
> the
> goyish nobility & set up a Jewish dictatorship in Russia? Beccause he
> wanted
> to help set up a state in which rich elites like himself and his
> friends
> controlled everything and the people had nothing.
Remember that Schiff didn't support the Bolsheviks. He supported
the Kerensky government and withdrew his support when the
Bolsheviks came to power. I pointed that out in a previous post.
I also pointed out in a previous post that Schiff supported
Kerensky because he was opposed to Tsarism, which he saw, quite
correctly, as an oppressor of the Jewish people. What is so
sinister or wrong headed in that? Where do you see any attempt
to setup a dictatorship? The Kerensky government that Schiff
supported was attempting to bring democracy to Russia. Was that
wrong? Should Schiff not have supported it?
Schiff opposed communism and withdrew all support from Russia
after the success of the Bolshevik revolution. That is a
historical fact.
Calling Lenin and the Communist Party a Jewish dictatorship in
Russia is dead wrong. It is said that Lenin had one Jewish
grandparent out of four. But he was certainly not raised as a
Jew and it is questionable whether he even knew that his maternal
grandfather was Jewish. It is unimaginable to me that Schiff
would have known about Lenin's grandfather since the information
didn't come out until after Schiff was dead.
Trotsky was born of a Jewish family, though he renounced his
religion.
Both Lenin and Trotsky considered themselves internationalists
rather than members of any ethnic or national group. If you read
any of their writings, which I have done, I don't think you will
find anything in them that is pro-Jewish or pro-Zionist. They
were both opposed to anti-semitism, but they were not any kind of
Jewish nationalists. If you read any biography of Lenin or
Trotsky (Isaac Deutcher's is the best biography of Trotsky, and
is a remarkable set of books) you will see that.
>> A second proposition in your posting is that Jews were once
>> pro-German and became anti-German, and were anti-Russian and
>> became pro-Russian.
>
> Do you deny that?
I don't deny it.
Many Jews believed that Germany was an enlightened country in
which Jews could get along, and continued to believe that until
Hitler overthrew democracy and institutionalized racism.
I believe that almost all Jews were anti-Russian - or at least
anti-Tsarist. Some, though far from all, became pro-Russian
after the revolution.
>> I'm not exactly sure when or why you're claiming this happened.
>> You said that Germany before the Nazis was tolerant of Jews and
>> Russia under the Czars oppressed them (true I think - though
>> toleration was a relative thing.) You said that the bulk of
>> the Ashkenazi Jews arriving in the U.S. were from Eastern Europe
>> (also true I think). In fact, a great many of them were fleeing
>> anti-semitism in the Russian Empire, which included most of
>> modern day Poland, the Baltic states, and other areas where Jews
>> lived.
> No arguement here...
>>
>> But then you argue that Jews somehow talked Wilson into fighting
>> on the side of the Russian Empire that hated Jews against the
>> Germans who tolerated them?
>> Huh? Why was that?
>
> Wilson did not go to war on the side of the Czar, he went to war on
> the side
> of the Bolsheviks who had deposed the Czar and plundered the country.
He did not. The Bolsheviks seized power on November 7, 1917.
The United States declared war on Germany on April 2, 1917, well
before the Bolsheviks came to power - although it is true that
the Czar had already been deposed.
Immediately after the end of the war, the U.S. government sent
troops to Russia in an attempt to overthrow the Bolshevik
government. Why would they have done that if Wilson wanted
Bolshevism to succeed? Why did the U.S. refuse to recognize the
revolutionary government if it wanted Bolshevism to succeed?
>> You say "the Russian czar had been murdered by Jews". Which Czar
>> and which Jew? Nikolai Rysakov, the man who killed Alexander II
>> in 1881 didn't have a Jewish name. He belonged to the Narodnaya
>> Volya, a populist party that had very few Jews in it. Nicholas
>> II was executed during the Russian civil war, but didn't the
>> orders come from Lenin - certainly no Jew?
>
> Lenin was a Jew or part Jew & his Jewish henchman butchered the entire
> royal
> family and their servants.
Lenin was not a Jew. Assuming it is true that he had one Jewish
grandparent then only by Nazi racial definitions but not by
anyone else's, could he be called a Jew.
I have already argued that "Jewish" is not the name of a race.
>> You say "... the country was in the control of Jewish radicals,
>> who had been financed by Jacob Schiff & other jewish bankers in
>> the US. Read the article on Schiff in the Wikipedia. Schiff's
>> firm would not do business with Tsarist Russia. When the
>> February Revolution occurred and Kerensky (not a communist!) came
>> to power, Schiff rescinded the ban. When Kerensky was overthrown
>> in the October Revolution and Schiff learned about the new
>> communist regime Schiff withdrew support. The author of the
>> Wikipedia article asserts: "Of course, once the policies and
>> doctrines of Lenin's and Trotsky's Soviet government became
>> apparent, Schiff once more became bitterly opposed to aiding
>> Russia in any way." It also points out that, although Schiff
>> contributed to Jewish communities in Palestine, as elsewhere, he
>> did not endorse Zionism.
>
> Schiff did what was necessary to take the czar out and put Lenin in
> power.
> Schiff was very closely aligned with the Rothschild family, and aided
> in
> their work, both in Russia & in Palestine. i hope you dod not rely on
> Wikipedia for your facts!
Who do you rely on for your facts Barry?
I'll say more about this at the end.
>> You say "... the love of Jews for Marxism is expressed in the
>> rabid hatred for white Christians..."
>>
>> Is Marxism equated here to hatred of white Christians? Why would
>> that be? It is true that Marxism has been opposed to religion,
>> but it was opposed to all religions - Judaism, Islam, and others
>> in addition to Christianity. Until the Chinese revolution, the
>> vast majority of Marxists in every country had white and
>> Christian backgrounds.
>
> Communists have always been more opposed to Christianity than they
> have been
> to other religions and Christians have always opposed Communism more
> than
> most other faiths have. In Russia, Lenin closed churches & murdered
> Christian clergy, but not Synagogues. Under his rule, Russia became
> the
> first country in the world to outlaw anti-semitism. New synagogues
> were
> built in Russia while Lenin was in power, & construction did not cease
> until
> Stalin came to power.
I have seen that claim made by anti-semites, but I have never
seen any evidence for it and don't believe it.
> Stalin, whose real name "Dzhugasvili" means "jews son"
> or "Jewison" in Georgian, persecuted religious people of all faiths.
I don't speak Georgian and can't confirm or deny what Stalin's
name meant. But certainly no one can claim that Stalin, a
notorious anti-semite, was pro-Jewish.
> The
> vast majority of
> Lenin's & Trotsky's (Bronstein's) commissars were not Christian but
> were
> Jews,
That's false. Jews were overrepresented among communists. The
percentage of Jews in the Party was greater than their percentage
in the population at large. But at no time did they ever make up
a majority in the party or party leadership.
As for why there were so many Jews in the revolutionary party -
that has already been discussed. It was because they were
opposed to Tsarism and for the equality of all people. They saw
that as something to be desired in itself, and something that
would liberate their own people.
Jewish supporters of Bolshevism (many of whom were later killed
by Stalin) were emphatically NOT the Jewish nationalists. Jewish
nationalists who wished to carve out an independent Jewish
identity supported Zionism, not Bolshevism. Bolshevism and
Zionism were always opposed to each other - even from before the
Russian Revolution. There were socialists among the Zionists and
there were Jews among the Bolshevists, but the Zionist and
Bolshevik movements had different and antithetical aims.
> presumably atheistic Jews, as the core of communist movements in most
> countries has been. Jews with the US administrations such as Harry
> Dexter
> White did their part to help the reds take over China.
I had to look that one up. White was Jewish, was a high official
in the U.S. Treasury Department, and was accused of being a
communist. It's hard to see however how he, or really anyone in
the U.S. government below the President, had any significant role
in the Chinese Revolution.
We all know why the communists came to power in China. It was
because the Chinese people were among the most oppressed in the
world and the Nationalist government of Chiang Kai-shek did very
little or nothing to solve their problems. Chinese communism is
not related to events in the United States or in the Jewish
community. It's related to events in China.
Revolutions aren't created by outsiders. The Chinese revolution
was made by Chinese, the Russian revolution by Russians, the
French revolution by French, and the American revolution by
Americans. Russian Jews played some role in the Russian
revolution, but Jews of any nationality played very little role
in any of the others.
You may be interested to know, by the way, that the Soviet
government under Stalin did not support the Chinese revolution in
the late 1920's and 1930's. They supported Chiang. They sent
him arms and advisers and even sent a fighter detachment to fight
against the Japanese air force.
> Jews were the
> backbone of the communist movement to topple the Republic of S Africa,
> and
> major backers of the So. west African Communist Party and SWAPO. Joe
> Slovo
> was a Lithuanian Jew.
There were Jewish opponents of the Apartheid regime. More power
to them. My hat is off to them, and yours should be too.
>> As for rabid hatred, I grew up with Jews and knew hundreds of
>> them. I met some who didn't like Christians. However to tell
>> you the honest truth, I never met a single one whom I would
>> describe as having a "rabid hatred" for Christians, white or
>> otherwise.
>>
>> How many Jews do you really know Barry? You're not describing
>> people that I know, and I grew up in the Jewish community and
>> knew hundreds of them.
>
> I am referring to the elites in the media and on university faculties,
> not
> about the average Jews I may meet in the work place or in social
> situations.
> The average Jew seems content to have his beliefs and let me have
> mine, just
> as I am content to let anyone practice any religion or no religion. I
> do not
> see many of those average Jews protesting when the ACLU or the ADL or
> the
> SPLC attempts to abridge the religious freedoms or free expression of
> Christians, though.
I have never met the elites in the media. I have spent many
years on university campuses (I once studied to become a
professor of Philosophy - though it never came to pass.) I met
some Jews on the faculty - though I think only two of the 24
professors in my department were Jewish. The Jewish professors
in my department did not seem to be involved in politics at all.
Like most of us, they had problems of their own to worry about.
I myself was very active in the anti-Vietnam war movement, and we
were supported by a number of professors in the department - all
of whom were Christians.
I hold a very different veiw of the ACLU, ADL and SPLC than you
do. I support all of those organizations. I think they are
defenders of your rights as well as mine. I don't believe that
any of them are anti-Christian.
I think all of those organizations oppose all racism, including
black racism. I read the SPLC literature pretty regularly. They
do attack black racism in their literature. I don't follow the
ACLU or Lawyers Guild as closely, but I do remember when the
ACLU, at great cost to itself in terms of losing support,
represented the American Nazis in Skokie Illinois. They ACLU
defended the Nazis right to demonstrate, even in a Jewish
community.
I have also seen no evidence of any of these organization trying
to enable minorities or homosexuals to "get the upper hand" over
anyone. What they support are equal rights.
As for Ernst Zundel, that's an interesting case. I'm not sure
what to think about him. He was deported to Germany where he was
convicted of violating German law which forbids Holocaust denial.
You might be interested to know however that Deborah Lipstadt,
the Jewish historian who was unsuccessfully sued by David Irving
in a famous case, has publicly condemned Austria's jailing of
Irving for Holocaust denial.
--------
I don't think there's much benefit to our continuing this
discussion. It's time consuming for both of us and it doesn't
look like we share enough common assumptions to ever find much
common ground.
You may possibly succeed in convincing me that you are a well
meaning person, but you will never succeed in convincing me that
there is a world Jewish conspiracy to get rich and dominate the
world. If there is such a conspiracy, I can assure you that no
one ever let me in on it.
There is today a huge body of documentation supporting your
views. There seem to be tens of thousands of websites and
innumerable books, articles, pamphlets and usenet postings all
pushing the same conspiracy theory / anti-semitic views and all
citing each other and, ultimately, the same false, anti-semitic
propaganda. There are millions of people who believe the stuff.
Even some heads of states like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad appear to
believe it.
Many people profit from this anti-semitic industry. Some of
them, like David Duke, have used the movement to gather followers
and siphon off money for themselves. Some of them gain power
over others. Some of them are sick bullies who love the chance
to hurt someone whom they think can't hurt them back. But none
of them are doing their followers any good.
I strongly recommend that you back away from this literature for
awhile and take a look at the standard histories. I don't know
if you've been to college or not. If not, I suggest you go and
study history with some professional historians - or at least get
some standard history books. Read about the Russian revolution.
Read about the history of the Jews. Read about Germany and the
era of World War II. Read about the Holocaust.
I know you've read the fascist and anti-semitic literature. But
I don't think you've read the standard academic literature, the
great bulk of which is written by non-Jews. I think it would
give you a different slant on all this.
I don't believe that there is a Jewish conspiracy out to get you,
to get whites, to get Christians, to dominate the U.S. or to
dominate the world. There are just individual Jews, like
individual Christians, pursuing the interests of themselves,
their families and, among the more socially conscious ones, their
communities.
There are Jews in the banking world and in the media. Some of
them are very talented and some have become quite famous. But
they are people like other people. They don't all agree with
each other about anything. They don't all belong to the same
organizations, or support the same organizations. Some are
pro-Zionist, some are anti-Zionist. Some are Democrats. Some
are Republicans. Although some are very prominent, I don't
believe that they constitute anything like a majority in either
the financial or media industries or exert control over those
industries.
You've gotten wrapped about the axle fighting an enemy that
doesn't exist.
I don't know what else to say except the well known Hebrew
saying, Sholem Aleichem. Peace be with you.
Alan
fla...@verizon.net
You were not wrong.
See below.
>
> My comments are interspersed. I have elided all of the sections
> that came after your last posting for brevity. Anyone wishing to
> read the full history of our interchange can go back to the
> originals.
>
> > "Alan Meyer" <ame...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:LtGdnbe4EJXnzKPa...@comcast.com...
> >> Barry,
> >>
> >> I don't think I actually attacked you. I merely invited you to
> >> think differently about some things. I certainly said nothing
> >> about your race, class, religion, or region - as you did about
> >> mine.
> >
> > Not true- I simply stated historical events.
>
> Forgive me for reading more into your posts than you intended.
>
> >> I'm also not sure what you mean by "Talmudic hate". I've never
> >> read the Talmud. I guess "Talmud" here just means "Jewish".
> >
> > The Talmud contains many things which could be regarded as bigoted,
> > racist,
> > chauvenistic, etc. within it.
This is aboslutely not true.
The ONLY "people"who think this have gotten their "information"
from hate sites.
> > It is not regarded as a holy book by either of us, and neither of us
> > are
> > experts on it or want to be.
> > The Talmud pertains to the Jewish faith and those who practice it.
> >
> >> Furthermore, I'm not a religious man and don't believe in God,
> >> but I guess for you "Jewish" doesn't mean a religion but a race
> >> (whatever that is), or an ethnic group. I was indeed born of
> >> Jewish parents.
> >
> > What does "Jewish" mean to you? Hermann Wouck stated it pretty well
> > and you
> > are a Jew by ancestry if not by religion if your parents are Jews.
> > Jewishness is both a religious faith and a enthnicity or race.
>
> As you say, neither of us is expert in the Talmud or wants to be.
> I won't comment further on it.
You don't have to be an expert to know that he's lying.
And once you know he's lying, you then know why.
Susan
Barry
maybe even have a somewhat open mind. Too much one-sided establishment
propaganda has blinded you to much truth. I can not help but get the info
you have been raised on because it is in the papers, history books, TV, etc.
I was able to discern that I was not gettiing the whole story, so did some
of my own research and found out many facts which you are not comfortable
with and your first reaction is to deny the facts or put a spin on them.
Your loyalty to your people is amazing considering that you do not believe
in Judaism & do not consider Jews a race!
You make a few valid points and several mistakes, like your statements
about Wilson, Schiff, & WW1. Both moved when the Bolsheviks were at a
critical juncture in their attempt to enslave the Russian. people and
eradicate Christianity. Wilson declared war on Germany, enemy of Russia,
which aided the Bolsheviks in consolidating their power. While the US &
Germany wer in a state of war, Schiff sent a huge load of gold, along with
Lenin & his gang of revolutionaries from Brooklyn in a train across Germany
on the way to Russia to finance the Bolsheviks. German minister Warburg
authorized the train, even though Germany & the US were at war at the time.
Like shiff, Warburg was a close associate of the Jewish Rothschild banking
family which had financed Marx.
Read Churchill's book on the Jews. He was part Jewish himself and has never
been accused of anti-semitism.
Also, Jewish contemoporary writer, Dr. Henry Makow has written extensively
on these issues and you may find him interesting. BTW, best-selling Oxford
Prof. Irving IS a very credible and authoratative source of information re
ww2, and arrived at his views on the actual numbers of dead in the WW2 camps
honestly. He has never denied the holocaust, only disputed the number who
died and has been villified and persecuted by the Jewish establishmant for
it. So much for Jewish tolerance. Jews seem to think that anyone who
disputes their viewpoints deserves to be jailed or persecuted, though
usually they simply prevent dissident writers from being published, thereby
keeping people like you in the dark.
"Alan Meyer" <ame...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AbOdnbqeYfEJmdza...@comcast.com...
Ray O'Hara
> You have much to learn, but you sound like you may be capable thought, and
> maybe even have a somewhat open mind.
anybody capable of thought would see you for the nazi you are.
scribe7716
>BTW, best-selling Oxford
> Prof. Irving IS a very credible and authoratative source of information re
> ww2, and arrived at his views on the actual numbers of dead in the WW2 camps
> honestly. He has never denied the holocaust, only disputed the number who
> died and has been villified and persecuted by the Jewish establishmant for
> it.
David Irving never graduated from college, He is certainly not now
nor has ever been an Oxford professor.
As to holocaust denial, Irving has said 1) that the gas chambers at
Auschwirz were "fakes" built after the war to provide a Polish tourist
attraction.... that got him fined after being found guilty violating
crime laws in Germany; 2) that he had found "no document whatsoever
indicating the Holocaust occurred; (3) that "the holocaust of the
Germans of Dresden was real. The holocaust of the Jews in the
Auschwitz gas chambers is a fabrication;" 4) while preparing a new
editon of his book _Hitler's War_ he revised early editions since he
was now convinced that because the Holocaust "never occurred, it did
not even warrant a footnote in the new edition of the book. (even in
the earlier editions Irving has argued that Hitler had no knowledge of
the Final Solution).
Irving has appeared in the United States at the Institute for
Historical Review... Holocaust deniers in extremis, and at a Liberty
Lobby (a virulent anti-Semtic organization) conference where he was
joined on the program by Klan leader turned neo-Nazi David Duke
Oh, and after a visit to Hitler's eyrie at Berchtesgaden Irving said,
"I regard it as a shrine."
Barry, Irving fits right in with your view of a credible scholar.
Barry
The asinine troll, "Rabid Ray O'Hara" <mary.p...@rcn.com> screeched in
message news:ENOdnfqtE9GiTNza...@rcn.net...
Ray O'Hara
> Everyone here sees you for the infantile jackass you are, turd-boy...
if you mean that nazi/racist newsgroup you slime out of. who cares what
they think if they think like you naziboy.
Rambler III
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:8o80j.1668$K_3.626@trnddc03...
[snip]
> You don't have to be an expert to know that he's lying.
> And once you know he's lying, you then know why.
>
> Susan
One-liners don't cut it, and do little to refute his comments.
Tell us how you know or by what means you know he's lying. Is it your
astute reasoning ability or did a Little Green Man whisper in your
ear?
As a start, try a one paragraph, 250 word essay.
fla...@verizon.net
On 20-Nov-2007, "Rambler III" <Ramb...@xyz.com> wrote:
> > You don't have to be an expert to know that he's lying.
> > And once you know he's lying, you then know why.
> >
> > Susan
>
>
> One-liners don't cut it, and do little to refute his comments.
When you cut everything to which I was replying & expect me
to remember not only what this liar said, but even who he is,
then ask me to "write an essay refuting him" you expose yourself
as either stupid or his confederate - which means both.
Barry
although I think I can safely assume you make an ass of yourself wherever
you roost on the 'net. You are a piece of drek.
BHnews:r7qdnTLYfrLbxt_a...@rcn.net...
Ray O'Hara
everybody on the CW group knows you as naziboy.
fla...@verizon.net
& now, so does scj - which is also "here".
The arrogance of these idiots is surpassed only by their stupidity.
Susan
Alan Meyer
> You have much to learn, but you sound like you may be capable
> thought, and maybe even have a somewhat open mind.
Thank you for the compliment. I am also impressed with your
intelligence. You are clearly a guy who tries to read, think
about things and understand them - something that not everyone
does on either the left or the right side of the political
spectrum.
There is too much name calling and not enough actual reasoning in
these kinds of Internet arguments. I very much appreciate your
effort to engage in reasoning.
Name calling is quick and easy, but it doesn't convince anyone of
anything. It just makes everyone mad.
> Too much
> one-sided establishment propaganda has blinded you to much
> truth. I can not help but get the info you have been raised on
> because it is in the papers, history books, TV, etc. I was
> able to discern that I was not gettiing the whole story, so did
> some of my own research and found out many facts which you are
> not comfortable with and your first reaction is to deny the
> facts or put a spin on them.
There is a lot of establishment propaganda, and it is sometimes
indeed the case that standard histories and ideas get things
wrong. There are pressures on everyone and it's easy to make
mistakes. I'm sure I make many of them.
But the standard histories do have important virtues. One of
them is that they must cite their sources. Any academic history
worth its salt will provide footnotes for every important claim,
citing the specific document and page number from which the
evidence was taken. The professional historians at the
universities can, and do, check each other's work and criticize
each other if the find that the citations are to dubious sources,
or if the quotations are inaccurate.
That's not generally true of the anti-semitic literature.
There's a huge industry devoted to anti-semitic literature. It's
easy to find the stuff and not always so easy to track down its
sources. Consider for example the classic anti-semitic tract
"Protocols of the Elders of Zion". It gets published and
republished and cited again and again in country after country,
year after year. Someone seeing all the citations to it might
start to believe it's true. But in fact it has been proven over
and over again to be a forgery. Still, the anti-semitic writers
keep citing just as if it were really true.
The Holocaust denial story is another one that won't die no
matter how many eye-witness testimonies, or how much physical and
documentary evidence is produced.
So, while I agree with you that there is a lot of suspect
material in the standard histories, they at least get vetted by
professional historians and researchers and cite their sources
openly and accurately - or face the consequences to their
academic careers. The anti-semitic literature on the other hand
is incredibly bad at that.
> Your loyalty to your people is amazing considering that you do
> not believe in Judaism & do not consider Jews a race!
Actually, I think my real loyalty is not to the Jewish community,
but to the community of all people. I believe in the equality
and worth of all people, of all religions and all races. I will
defend whites, blacks, Jews, Gentiles, Muslims, or whoever I
think is being attacked unfairly.
You and I have been arguing about the role of Jews in history and
I've been defending them, or at least trying to refute the
attacks on them. But in other contexts I am also critical of
many Jews.
In particular, I think the government of Israel is treating
Palestinians very badly. I have spoken out against Israeli
policy towards Palestinians since the early 1970's, and have been
severely criticised for it by some Jews.
> You make a few valid points and several mistakes, like your
> statements about Wilson, Schiff, & WW1. Both moved when the
> Bolsheviks were at a critical juncture in their attempt to
> enslave the Russian. people and eradicate Christianity. Wilson
> declared war on Germany, enemy of Russia, which aided the
> Bolsheviks in consolidating their power.
I don't think the situation in Russia was a key factor in the
American declaration of war in April 1917. Remember, the
Bolshevik revolution had not yet occurred. No one could know
that the Bolsheviks would be able to seize power in Russia.
I also don't think that Schiff had much, if any, influence on
Wilson. Schiff was an important banker representing an important
banking house, but there were bigger ones, like the J.P. Morgan
organization, that had more influence. And in any case, Wilson
was very much his own man. Everything I've read about him
indicates that he did what he believed in. He was not an easy
man to tell what to do - as Lloyd George and Clemenceau (prime
ministers of Britain and France) soon found out at the Paris
Peace Conference.
And of course, as I've already said, I don't think Schiff
believed in or supported the communists. He supported the
Kerensky government - which was anti-communist. He helped
arrange loans to the Kerensky government but withdrew support
after the Bolshevik revolution.
I think you've been sold a bill of goods about Schiff. I don't
think Schiff played a significant role in Wilson's policy. I
don't think he ever supported communism (and in fact opposed it),
and I don't think he had anything whatever to do with Lenin or
the Bolshevik Party.
It seems to me that the anti-semitic propagandists have dug up
the name "Schiff", and then just make up stuff about him in order
to justify their belief that Jews are manipulating world history.
He may have been the wealthiest Jew in America, but that doesn't
mean he changed the world.
> While the US & Germany wer in a state of war, Schiff sent a
> huge load of gold, along with Lenin & his gang of
> revolutionaries from Brooklyn in a train across Germany on the
> way to Russia to finance the Bolsheviks. German minister
> Warburg authorized the train, even though Germany & the US were
> at war at the time. Like shiff, Warburg was a close associate
> of the Jewish Rothschild banking family which had financed
> Marx.
The best way to resolve this is probably to try to find the
original sources. I do know for a fact that Lenin was not in New
York, and in fact I don't recall that he ever visited the
Americas in his entire life. He was in Switzerland during the
war.
Can you get any details on this supposed huge "load of gold".
How much gold? Who provided it? Who exactly was it given to?
When? Where is the documentation for this? Are you really sure
it happened, or is it possible that some anti-semite just made it
up?
Remember, we're not talking about loans to the Kerensky
government. Those loans were for the purpose of supporting
democracy in Russia. There were loans of that kind. What I want
to know is who gave gold to the Bolsheviks? What evidence is
there for that?
Also, can you tell me more about who the German Minister Warburg
was? I've tried to look him up, but there are a lot of Warburgs
and I haven't been able to find one who was a minister in the
German government. Can you find out his first name and what
position he held?
The German government did give Lenin passage in the famous
"sealed train" from the Swiss border to St. Petersburg in Russia.
(The train wasn't actually sealed, but it was routed through
Germany with no passenger stops.)
The German government knew that Lenin was adamantly opposed to
continuing the war and they hoped, rightly it turned out, that he
would help overthrow the government of Kerensky (who wanted to
continue the war) and take Russia out of the war against Germany.
I don't know if any Jews were involved in that or not, but my
guess is that the highest levels of the German government,
certainly including the Chancellor and the Foreign Minister would
have been in on the decision. How could they not be involved?
It would be like someone taking Manuel Noriega out of jail in the
U.S. and sending him to Panama without the permission of George
Bush, Dick Cheney, or Condoleeza Rice.
I just did some checking in my copy of _The Life of Lenin_ by
Louis Fischer. It's a 700 page biography published in 1964 and
considered very authoritative at the time. It won the 1965
National Book Award for History and Biography. Fischer discusses
the train incident on pages 109-111. There is no reference to
Warburg that I could find in those pages, and no mention of any
Warburg in the index to the book. Fischer says that the Kaiser
himself approved the plan of sending Lenin to Russia.
If someone is telling you that a guy named Warburg was behind
this, see if you can pin them down and get details. I'm betting
it isn't true.
> Read Churchill's book on the Jews. He was part Jewish himself
> and has never been accused of anti-semitism.
I have read many of Churchill's books. I read _My Early Life_.
I read the first volume of his _History of the English Speaking
Peoples_, and I read all six volumes, cover to cover, of his
_The Second World War_.
I don't recall anything about his being Jewish or part Jewish.
His father was Lord Randolph Churchill, a son of the Duke of
Marlborough. That's a pretty Christian family. His mother was
Jennie Jerome, the daughter of Leonard Jerome, which sounds like
it could be a Jewish name but, as I understand it, was not
Jewish. The Jerome family were descended from French
Huguenots (French Protestants). Perhaps there were Jews in the
family somewhere, but I'm not aware of them.
I think here too you have been misinformed. See if you can find
out exactly who in Churchill's family was said to be Jewish.
Don't let someone con you by telling you, oh, Jerome is a Jewish
name, obviously they were Jews. In fact there's a lot of names
that could be Jewish or not. Saint Jerome was as Christian as
you can get and Jerome is a common Christian name.
> Also, Jewish contemoporary writer, Dr. Henry Makow has written
> extensively on these issues and you may find him interesting.
> BTW, best-selling Oxford Prof. Irving IS a very credible and
> authoratative source of information re ww2, and arrived at his
> views on the actual numbers of dead in the WW2 camps honestly.
> He has never denied the holocaust, only disputed the number who
> died and has been villified and persecuted by the Jewish
> establishmant for it.
I was not familiar with the works of Makow. I just looked him
up. Is he the Henry Makow who lives in Canada and wrote about
"Feminism and the New World Order"? Do you really believe he's
Jewish? Looking at his work on the web it appears to me he's not
only not Jewish but is anti-semitic. I found an article by him
attacking Jews on a David Duke website. It's inconceivable to me
that any Jew would be willing to write articles for David Duke.
If someone told you he's Jewish, ask for some confirmation of
that. For that matter, you could write to Makow and ask him.
Incidentally, I presume that you are aware of the fact that David
Duke pleaded guilty to mail and tax fraud and went to prison for
it. He was accused of misappropriating hundreds of thousands of
dollars given to him by supporters and using it to pay off
gambling debts. In other words, Duke has publicly admitted he
lied to his own supporters. He took their money for political
work and wasted it in gambling and high living.
As for David Irving, he's an interesting case. He has done
extensive research on World War II and has written many
authoritative books about it. There are many facts in his books.
Many historians have spoken well of him. But there is also a
problem with them. The books also contain many distortions and
lies.
Deborah Lipstadt, the Jewish historian, published a book about
Holocaust denial and mentioned Irving as a prominent denier.
Irving got mad and sued her for libel. The case went to trial in
London, where it was tried before judge Charles Grey, the
UK's leading expert judge on British libel law.
It was a very long, drawn out case. Years went by before it
actually came to trial, and when it did there were all sorts of
witnesses and much documentary evidence. At the end of the
trial, the judge (not a Jew) ruled that, in fact, Irving was a
Holocaust denier, that his books contained numerous distortions
and outright lies. He dismissed the lawsuit against Lipstadt and
said that what Lipstadt wrote about Irving had been proven true.
Here is an excerpt from the Judge's actual judgment:
"I find myself unable to accept Irving's contention that his
falsification of the historical record is the product of innocent
error or misinterpretation or incompetence on his part. When
account is taken of all the considerations set out in paragraphs
13.140 to 13.161 above, it appears to me that the correct and
inevitable inference must be that for the most part the
falsification of the historical record was deliberate and that
Irving was motivated by a desire to present events in a manner
consistent with his own ideological beliefs even if that involved
distortion and manipulation of historical evidence."
(http://www.hdot.org/trial/judgement/13.69)
The full set of thousands of pages of unedited documents is
available at an Emory University website:
http://www.hdot.org/trial.
They are fascinating reading.
> So much for Jewish tolerance. Jews seem to think that anyone
> who disputes their viewpoints deserves to be jailed or
> persecuted, though usually they simply prevent dissident
> writers from being published, thereby keeping people like you
> in the dark.
I am troubled by what happened to Irving. I have no personal
sympathy for him. The man is a bigot, a liar, and a bully. He
sued Lipstadt in order to keep her from telling the truth and he
successfully blocked other important writers from writing about
him (such as John Lukacs) by threatening their publishers with
lawsuits - knowing that the cost to the publishers of defending
themselves in court would be so great that they'd more likely
give in than fight him.
However, we in the United States have a tradition of free speech
which I think has great value. I do not endorse what the
Austrian government did to Irving. I am not the only Jew who
feels that way. Lipstadt, whose life was disrupted for years by
Irving's lawsuit, has also come out against putting him in jail.
In this, as in most issues, there is no one Jewish point of view,
just as there is no one Christian point of view. Different Jews
believe different things. In fact, there is a humorous Jewish
saying that wherever you have 10 Jews, you have 11 different
opinions.
I believe that there are good people and bad people and people in
between. Jews are no different from Christians or Muslims, or
anyone else.
Regards,
Alan
Rambler III
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ahD0j.14869$xt5.6516@trnddc07...
Well, whatever 'tis better than being a peabrain.
What's your surname? Do you remember that, or do you have to refer to
your birth certificate when attempting recollection.
Cracker Jack
Nazi ? Naz is the Hebrew word for Germany. With the added "i" it
refers to the people of Naz. Are you saying that he is German ?
fla...@verizon.net
On 21-Nov-2007, "Rambler III" <Ramb...@xyz.com> wrote:
> <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:ahD0j.14869$xt5.6516@trnddc07...
> >
> > On 20-Nov-2007, "Rambler III" <Ramb...@xyz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > You don't have to be an expert to know that he's lying.
> >> > And once you know he's lying, you then know why.
> >> >
> >> > Susan
> >>
> >>
> >> One-liners don't cut it, and do little to refute his comments.
> >
> > When you cut everything to which I was replying & expect me
> > to remember not only what this liar said, but even who he is,
> > then ask me to "write an essay refuting him" you expose yourself
> > as either stupid or his confederate - which means both.
>
> Well, whatever
Yes, I rather thought you'd dodge the whole thing.
> 'tis better than being a peabrain.
And you would know about all *sorts* of people being better than you.
Ray O'Hara
> >everybody on the CW group knows you as naziboy.
> >
>
> Nazi ? Naz is the Hebrew word for Germany. With the added "i" it
> refers to the people of Naz. Are you saying that he is German ?
i see barry the nazi has a supporter.
Barry
House? He held Wilson's puppet strings the same way Zbigbniew Brezynski held
Carter's. Wilson was owned by the bankers and saddled the US public with the
income tax, Fed Reserve rip-off, and got us into war for benefit of the
bankers and Zionists. He ws backed by all of the most influential Jews in
the US, led by Rabbi Wise.
Schiff & Morgan were both in collusion with the Rothschilds. Schiff and his
cohorts were the ones who financed Lenin & Trotsky(Lev Bronstein), the
communists who overthrew the Kerensky government. He never made a secret of
the fact. Maybe he did attempt to distance himself from the bloody
Bolsheciks after they took power and began liquidating large segments of the
population. They had plenty of help from other Jews by then anyway. Don't
let the establishment so-called historians bullshit you. They determine what
the dogma will be, and make sure everyone marches to their tune. It is not
about truth, it is and always has been about money and especially power.
!news:TIKdnQUO7_cnRd7a...@comcast.com...
Barry
Rabid Ray has another filty little name-calling troll to join him in his
vacuous luncay & hate. Like, RtR, this sad sack of shit has nothing new or
useful to add to the mix, just more blind hatred & childish name-calling to
spew when confronted with iinconvenient facts.
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:dnY0j.3809$dh.369@trnddc05...
Ray O'Hara
> Tt seems that another stinking brown egg has hatched under the bridge, and
> Rabid Ray has another filty little name-calling troll to join him in his
> vacuous luncay & hate. Like, RtR, this sad sack of shit has nothing new or
> useful to add to the mix, just more blind hatred & childish name-calling
to
> spew when confronted with iinconvenient facts.
you are a living caricature naziboi.
Alan Meyer
Barry,
You're buying all the BS that's being sold to you.
How can anyone tell you that Wilson was a puppet of House or
Carter was a puppet of Brzezinski? How do they know such things?
Where do they get their information?
Wilson and House are dead but Carter and Brzezinski are still
around and still in public life. Have you ever listened to
Carter on TV? Have you read any of his books? Do you really
think he would be a puppet to anyone? Why in the world would he
do that? How could Brzezinski, who worked for Carter, have
controlled him?
I've watched Carter on TV both when he was President and since
then. I read one of his books. The man is no dummy. He was
trained as an engineer on nuclear submarines. He knows science,
history, politics and many other subjects very well. He's also a
deeply moral man who takes his religion seriously and his
country's interest seriously. I don't believe for a minute that
he was ever a puppet of anyone. And I don't believe it about
Wilson either.
I've also watched Brzezinski on TV. I don't agree with
everything he says, but I have no doubt that he is extremely
intelligent, extremely knowledgeable, and that he is committed to
the interest of the United States.
I notice that you haven't responded to any others of my points.
Lenin was not in New York. There was no Minister Warburg that I
could find in the German government. Lenin's transport to St.
Petersburg was authorized by the Kaiser himself (surely HE wasn't
a Jewish agent.) He travelled from Switzerland, not New York.
Schiff financed Kerensky, not Lenin. Makow is not a Jew. etc.
Whoever told you all that stuff either made it up or read it from
someone who made it up.
One of the things I sense about you is that you're not a guy
whose sole interest in right wing politics is bigotry and
bullying. You believe what you say because you think it's the
truth. Well, you owe it to yourself to read a lot more because a
large number of things you're saying are not the truth at all. I
know you're not lying. I know you believe it. But I think
you're being lied to.
Read any biography of Wilson or Carter. Read Carter's books.
Read Brzezinski's books. For that matter, read any history of
Russia or Germany. Read about the Russian revolution. Read
Churchill's history of the second world war. People like Wilson
and Carter and Churchill were great men. Their biographies and
their writings are very interesting.
As you can probably tell, I've read a lot of books about all of
that.
I'm 61 years old and I read an average of about 50 or so books
each year. I've been doing that since I was a kid. A fair
amount of what I read is history, though I also read a lot of
other things too.
You're a guy who likes to think and to write. I suspect you're a
lot younger than I am. That's excellent. Your life is still
before you. You have time. Spend it learning. Don't waste your
time reading the anti-semitic claptrap from Henry Makow or David
Duke or even David Irving (who is a knowledgeable guy but who has
been proven in a British court to be a liar.) Go to the public
library and get some real histories. If you haven't gone to
college yet, do it! You'll learn a lot and pick up a lot of
additional skills that will help in creating a career.
Best of luck.
Alan
"Barry" <barryh...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Ct2dneiFQ4CLONna...@comcast.com...
Rambler III
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:dnY0j.3809$dh.369@trnddc05...
>
> On 21-Nov-2007, "Rambler III" <Ramb...@xyz.com> wrote:
>
>> <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:ahD0j.14869$xt5.6516@trnddc07...
>> >
>> > On 20-Nov-2007, "Rambler III" <Ramb...@xyz.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> > You don't have to be an expert to know that he's lying.
>> >> > And once you know he's lying, you then know why.
>> >> >
>> >> > Susan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> One-liners don't cut it, and do little to refute his comments.
>> >
>> > When you cut everything to which I was replying & expect me
[snip]
> Yes, I rather thought you'd dodge the whole thing.
If there is any dodging being done, it's your assertion that you don't
recall what you wrote. [Besides, it's a simple matter to open your
"Sent Items" folder if you have any Neswgroup skill.]
[snip]
> And you would know about all *sorts* of people being better than
> you.
I KNOW from your few postings that if not a dingbat you're your a
bigot.
fla...@verizon.net
On 21-Nov-2007, "Ray O'Hara" <mary.p...@rcn.com> wrote:
> "Barry" <barryh...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:QqmdnUKTxPDhOtna...@comcast.com...
> > Tt seems that another stinking brown egg has hatched under the bridge,
> > and
> > Rabid Ray has another filty little name-calling troll
He says "Rabid Ray" & then has the nerve to insist that
someone ELSE is a "name-calling troll"? As if "stinking
brown egg" wasn't enough to prove his hypocrisy?
> > to join him in his
> > vacuous luncay
Yeah, we see where the real vacuous lunacy (note correct spelling) is...
> > & hate.
Like "stinking", "troll", "sad sack of shit"?
> > Like, RtR, this sad sack of shit has nothing new or
> > useful to add to the mix, just more blind hatred
Like "stinking brown egg"?
> > & childish name-calling
Childish name-calling - like sad "sack of shit"?
> to
> > spew when confronted with iinconvenient facts.
>
See below.
>
> you are a living caricature naziboi.
He's certainly proving everything I've ever said about
them being so excruciatingly projectionary.
Susan
Ray O'Hara
"Rambler III" <Ramb...@xyz.com> wrote in message
news:gx21j.38961$if6....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
howie why do you always nightride to the naziboi's aid?
Ray O'Hara
"Cracker Jack" <sw...@dixie.org> wrote in message
news:ijc9k390sftenc7l1...@4ax.com...
> agree with. Just like I do with most people.
>
> For instance Barry claims to be a racist. I think Barry supports the
> old CSA. But surely I'm wrong. I don't see how any racist could
> support a government whose main ambition was to re-open the African
> slave trade. Had they been successful -- the South today would have
> twice as many blacks as it now does.
>
> Nazi is a lazy man's expression -- but when you use it, I assume you
> mean a German fascist. (Although in Hebrew it appears to apply to
> all Germans). No German fascist would have supported such a goal as
> was attempted by the CSA.
>
> As our friend Rush likes to say --- "words have meaning".
NAZI was a german acronym for national socialist.
it is not the hebrew word ashkanazim which is the word for european jews.
barry is an american nationalist party member, that is the american branch
of the nazi party.
barry approves of the nazi's racial policies.
Barry
Jewish and was no anti-semite. Makow was born a Jew and is no anti-semite.
He simply opposes the Jewish elite who, along with the wealthy elites of the
rich corporate socialist gentiles like the Bush family are building a
satanic new world order(not a Jewish NWO) to separate you from your freedom,
prosperity, and independence.
I stand by my statements regarding Wilson & Carter. I never said that
they were stupid, but they bought into the idea of internationalism and sold
out to the wealthy elites. Wilson's ego was bigger than his intellect. Later
in life, he realized that he had been used. I once knew a man who served in
the Navy under Carter, and he thought very highly of him. Presidents are
installed into office by wealthy elites, and House & Bryznski worked for
those people - House for Rothschild surrogates Morgan and Schiff, and ZB for
Rothschild surrogate Rockefeller. FDR had a man named Howe living in the
governor's mansion with him who inculcated him into some of his
big-government, pro-socialist beliefs and did a better job on Eleanor. Why
do you think Reagan brought Bush in as his VP? Nobody works for the
president of the co.- they work for the owner of the co. The president just
manages the people and delegates the tasks. Both Wilson & FDR made
statements to this effect in their later years. If you would want to waste
your time reading Brezynski's books, you would see that he is an
internationalist with no loyalty to the US, and that he favors merging the
nations of the world into what he euphamistically calls a "world community"
in which national sovereignty will give way to international cooperation. In
other words, a world dictatorship in which the nations of the world will be
vassal states without sovereignty or control of their own affairs. He plans
to do it gradually with treaties, like NAFTA, Kyoto, etc. Reading House's
writings, he had a similar socialistic agenda. Rockefeller placed his man
Kissinger into the Nixon administration after failing to get his brother
Nelson into the White House.
Due to Miss Lillian's sick influence, Jimmy bought into the mental illness
of egalitarianism, which ingratiated him to the leftist elite which took
control of the Dem party in the 60's, but got him in trouble when he dared
to apply some of that same egalitarianism to the Palestinians resident in
Israel. Now the media hacks are crowing about Carter's anti-semitism, when
he is actually no more against Jews than he was against whites in the South.
He is for equality like the socialist that he is. He was for it when it was
not popular in the South, and he is for it when it is not popular in Israel
or with Israel's supporters in the US who attack anyone, friend or foe, who
opposes their agenda of chauvenistic domination. He is more of a socialist
than a Christian, & his Christian beliefs seem to me to be pretty
superficial, though he is a decent man in many ways. He has not used his
status as an ex-pres to enrich himself as Klinton has, but has spent time
helping the poor & oppressed of the world.
Typing from memory, I mixed Lenin up with Trotsky, but the 2 were on the
same side against the Kerensky government, and they were financed by Schiff
to bring Kerensky's government down and sieze power in Russia for the
bankers. The same bankers who financed the Japs and would not lend to the
Czar, causing destabilization of the Russian govt when they essentially lost
the war in '07. We could take a lesson from Russia that constant wars
eventually bring governments down and impoverish a nation.
Warburg was an influential banker who convinced the ill-fated Wilhelm II to
allow Lenin & his thugs to take Schiff's gold across Germany to topple the
Kerensky govt. to Germany's benefit. Schiff's treason made US entry into
the war necessary and caused the deaths of US soldiers. US participation
allowed the Brits to take the Mideast for the Jews. Banker influence caused
Wilson to pressure Wilhelm II to abdicate, paving the way for Hitler, who
was secretly financed by Jewish bankers & rich goyim of the NWO elite, like
Harriman & Prescott Bush.
You read too many books sold by Jewish-owned publishers who tightly control
the information which reaches the public and you are so brain-washed that
you think the truth is a lie!
"Alan Meyer" <ame...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:erSdnYglhthqMtna...@comcast.com...
Rambler III
"Ray O'Hara" <mary.p...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:M9adnQFjV73uWtna...@rcn.net...
to the dingbat "FlaviaR" with the signature "Susan" who made
disparaging 1-liner remark about Mr Meyer's posting.
Look around, Raymond, you've "lost it".
Mr. John Holmes
> "Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmu...@rcn.com> wrote in message
>
> news:M9adnQFjV73uWtna...@rcn.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Rambler III" <Ramble...@xyz.com> wrote in message
> >news:gx21j.38961$if6....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> >> <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>news:dnY0j.3809$dh.369@trnddc05...
>
> >> > On 21-Nov-2007, "Rambler III" <Ramble...@xyz.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> >>news:ahD0j.14869$xt5.6516@trnddc07...
>
> >> >> > On 20-Nov-2007, "Rambler III" <Ramble...@xyz.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> > You don't have to be an expert to know that he's lying.
> >> >> >> > And once you know he's lying, you then know why.
>
> >> >> >> > Susan
>
> >> >> >> One-liners don't cut it, and do little to refute his
> >> >> >> comments.
>
> >> >> > When you cut everything to which I was replying & expect me
> >> >> > to remember...
>
> >> [snip]
>
> >> > Yes, I rather thought you'd dodge the whole thing.
>
> >> If there is any dodging being done, it's your assertion that you
> >> don't
> >> recall what you wrote. [Besides, it's a simple matter to open your
> >> "Sent Items" folder if you have any Neswgroup skill.]
>
> >> [snip]
> >> > And you would know about all *sorts* of people being better than
> >> > you.
>
> >> I KNOW from your few postings that if not a dingbat you're your a
> >> bigot.
>
> > howie why do you always nightride to the naziboi's aid?
>
> If you'll follow the above headers, you'll realize my responses were
> to the dingbat "FlaviaR" with the signature "Susan" who made
> disparaging 1-liner remark about Mr Meyer's posting.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey you anti-Jew piece of slobber. Kiss all the ass of the fat German
women that weigh over 300lbs.
fla...@verizon.net
On 21-Nov-2007, "Ray O'Hara" <mary.p...@rcn.com> wrote:
> "Rambler III" <Ramb...@xyz.com> wrote in message
> news:gx21j.38961$if6....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:dnY0j.3809$dh.369@trnddc05...
> > >
> > > On 21-Nov-2007, "Rambler III" <Ramb...@xyz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > >> news:ahD0j.14869$xt5.6516@trnddc07...
> > >> >
> > >> > On 20-Nov-2007, "Rambler III" <Ramb...@xyz.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> > You don't have to be an expert to know that he's lying.
> > >> >> > And once you know he's lying, you then know why.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Susan
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> One-liners don't cut it, and do little to refute his comments.
> > >> >
> > >> > When you cut everything to which I was replying & expect me
> > >> > to remember...
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > Yes, I rather thought you'd dodge the whole thing.
> >
> > If there is any dodging being done, it's your assertion that you don't
> > recall what you wrote.
You;d think whith this sort ofi magination, these bigots could actually
like, find jobs and be useful instead of spreading lies on Usenet.
> > [Besides, it's a simple matter to open your
> > "Sent Items" folder if you have any Neswgroup skill.]
As opposed to any spelling skill.
And then there's the fact that I have NO IDEA what the idiot's
name is - like I'm supposed to have to keep track of every
idiot who needs his butt kicked.
The only dodge is that he knows he snipped because the crap
was obviously indefensible.
> >
> > [snip]
> > > And you would know about all *sorts* of people being better than
> > > you.
> >
> > I KNOW from your few postings that if not a dingbat you're your
HAHAHA!
it doesn't get any better than this....
> > a
> > bigot.
> >
Oh, I sit corrected - it just did get funnier.
(Of course, now I have to wonder if this jackass has been reading
all those forgeries? Somehow, I don't think he'd have to to come
to the exact wrong, self-serving conclusion)
>
> howie why do you always nightride to the naziboi's aid?
Oh, I bet this is a rhetorical queston!
Am I right? Huh?
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 22-Nov-2007, "Mr. John Holmes" <marilyn...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 22, 3:58 pm, "Rambler III" <Ramble...@xyz.com> wrote:
> > >> I KNOW from your few postings that if not a dingbat you're your a
> > >> bigot.
> >
> > > howie why do you always nightride to the naziboi's aid?
> >
> > If you'll follow the above headers, you'll realize my responses were
> > to the dingbat "FlaviaR" with the signature "Susan"
Just when you think they can't get any dumber ----
> > who made
> > disparaging 1-liner remark about Mr Meyer's posting.
> >
--- THIS one has to go showing that he was, indeed, "nightriding"
to "nazibo's" aid, all the while denying he was doing it.
> > Look around, Raymond, you've "lost it".
Not that can be proven from anything this moron posts.
>
> Hey you anti-Jew piece of slobber. Kiss all the ass of the fat German
> women that weigh over 300lbs.
Or men - let's not assume....
Susan
Sambi Cohen Ben Martachud Hagebor Ramati Henslie Mismalmonamick
> On 21-Nov-2007, "Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmu...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Rambler III" <Ramble...@xyz.com> wrote in message
> >news:gx21j.38961$if6....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> > > <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > >news:dnY0j.3809$dh.369@trnddc05...
>
> > > > On 21-Nov-2007, "Rambler III" <Ramble...@xyz.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > > >>news:ahD0j.14869$xt5.6516@trnddc07...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Susan are you drinking Irish whiskey or Jewish arak? Happy
thanksgiving hog.
Horatio
> "Cracker Jack" <s...@dixie.org> wrote in message
>
> news:ijc9k390sftenc7l1...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:40:02 -0500, "Ray O'Hara"
>
> > >"Cracker Jack" <a...@dixie.org> wrote in message
> > >news:r988k3p9g58vvqnc5...@4ax.com...
> > >> >everybody on the CW group knows you as naziboy.
>
> > >> Nazi ? Naz is the Hebrew word for Germany. With the added "i" it
> > >> refers to the people of Naz. Are you saying that he is German ?
>
> > >i see barry the nazi has a supporter.
>
> > Some things Barry says I agree with. Other things he says I don't
> > agree with. Just like I do with most people.
>
> > For instance Barry claims to be a racist. I think Barry supports the
> > old CSA. But surely I'm wrong. I don't see how any racist could
> > support a government whose main ambition was to re-open the African
> > slave trade. Had they been successful -- the South today would have
> > twice as many blacks as it now does.
>
> > Nazi is a lazy man's expression -- but when you use it, I assume you
> > mean a German fascist. (Although in Hebrew it appears to apply to
> > all Germans). No German fascist would have supported such a goal as
> > was attempted by the CSA.
>
> > As our friend Rush likes to say --- "words have meaning".
>
> NAZI was a german acronym for national socialist.
> it is not the hebrew word ashkanazim which is the word for european jews.
>
> barry is an american nationalist party member, that is the american branch
> of the nazi party.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Barry is guilty of hate crime and belongs on the rockpile at
Leavenworth.
He despises non-Whites and Jews. It is pointless to argue with him.
A new Democratic President will enact hate-crime legislation making
Barry`s internet utterances criminal offenses.
Barry is human garbage and is a traitor to the United States.
The US knows how to deal with traitors.
Alan Meyer
We seem to be too far apart to find agreement on anything. In
your view I've been brainwashed by Jewish propaganda. In my
view, you've bought into a fantasy conspiracy theory, believing
that Jews are behind all the evil in the world.
I guess we'll have to leave it at that.
Thank you for taking the time to expound your views at length.
I tried to argue at length against them, but I see that neither of
us has convinced the other of anything.
I will leave you with one parting thought. You're travelling with
a group of people, some of whom may one day try to draw you
into violence against Jews, Blacks, immigrants, or who knows
who else. Perhaps you've already been a part of such violence.
If you ever take such a step you'll be crossing a line that should
not be crossed. It's one thing to believe in conspiracy theories
and engage in free speech. It's another thing to go out and
hurt people. Please don't ever do that. It will lead to the abyss.
So long.
Alan
Barry
in the world. People like you seek to
cover up the truth by calling provable facts "conspiracy theories" as if
wealthy people, some of Jewsh birth and some not, do not work together for
their benefit and mutual empowerment.
Then you imply that I am a violent person which is another lie. I travel
alone, accompanied only by the truth, which is what makes your kind foam at
the mouth. It is Zionists & Marxists who use violence against Christians and
innocent Palestinians. It is Zionists who seek to jail historians who do not
preach your exagerrated version of the hollo-hoax.
I can only conclude that you are at best a brain-washed & close-minded
liberal and more than likely
you are a chauvenistic Zionist meglomaniac, who thinks a Jew dominated NWO
will be a paradise.
So long indeed.
BHnews:PPidnU6w7evuztva...@comcast.com...
Don Ocean
Actually not! This is America and we Veterans back our 1st and 2nd
amendments to the hilt. If you don't like it //Tough shit. A crime has
to be an action... not just words of someones opinion. And a hate crime
bill is a fucking jewish device and a joke! Even the Germans are waking
up to the absolute rights of free speech. A crime of violence is just
that.. A crime of violence. And it is not committed out of love. So a
hate crime bill is the stupidest thing ever devised and not by real
Americans. We owe you fucking Jews nothing. You have murdered Americans
among the many many victims pf this world.
>
> Barry is human garbage and is a traitor to the United States.
You have a lot to talk about after the above. What shithead criminal of
a Jew you are.
>
> The US knows how to deal with traitors.
You be we do and we are keeping an eye on you and your kind. This is not
Jewland!
Don Ocean
> Well, I give up.
>
> We seem to be too far apart to find agreement on anything. In
> your view I've been brainwashed by Jewish propaganda. In my
> view, you've bought into a fantasy conspiracy theory, believing
> that Jews are behind all the evil in the world.
>
> I guess we'll have to leave it at that.
>
> Thank you for taking the time to expound your views at length.
> I tried to argue at length against them, but I see that neither of
> us has convinced the other of anything.
>
> I will leave you with one parting thought. You're travelling with
> a group of people, some of whom may one day try to draw you
> into violence against Jews, Blacks, immigrants, or who knows
> who else.
Defending our nation against antiAmerican invaders is demanded and not a
crime. Perhaps you would like to explain the violence and murders in the
ME by the Jews..Such as the cluster Bombing of the Christian Enclave in
Lebanon//Or better yet ..This one
Perhaps you've already been a part of such violence.
> If you ever take such a step you'll be crossing a line that should
> not be crossed. It's one thing to believe in conspiracy theories
> and engage in free speech. It's another thing to go out and
> hurt people. Please don't ever do that. It will lead to the abyss.
>
> So long.
Right! It is ok for your pals to murder and pillage, but it is criminal
to defend against them ..Fuck off moron!
>
> Alan
>
>
RubberEnd
-
>
> Susan are you drinking Irish whiskey or Jewish arak? Happy
> thanksgiving hog.
That would be cannibalism
William Black
> you are a chauvenistic Zionist meglomaniac, who thinks a Jew dominated NWO
> will be a paradise.
One hesitates to get involved as some of the people here are obviously
insane...
But...
What exactly would be wrong with a Jew dominated NWO?
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Rambler III
"Ray O'Hara" <mary.p...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:74SdnVBCYJt0Vdna...@rcn.net...
[snip]
>
> barry is an american nationalist party member, that is the american
> branch
> of the nazi party.
> barry approves of the nazi's racial policies.
Raymond are you as pure as you claim to be? When was the last time you
invited a minority or a street person home for Sunday dinner?
Do you approve of the racist policies of the Pilgrims and Puritans who
stole from or killed Indians for Massachusetts, not to mention the
religious missionaries from Massachusetts who "went to Hawaii to go
good and did very well"?
Barry
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fi5ujs$4u3$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> But... What exactly would be wrong with a Jew dominated NWO?
>
If you like the way Palestinians are being treated in the Mideast or the way
you silly Brits are becoming second class citizens in your own rapidly
darkening country(or what is left of it), you will LOVE the coming
New World Order. Though it is being promoted by the rich, godless elite of
Jewry, it will not be Jewish, it will be satanic. Those same people thought
nothing of supporting Hitler & Stalin in order to kill off and herd the
remaining Jews of E Europe to Israel to populate the Rothschild fiefdom
there. They are responsible for importing wholesale quantities of violent
3rd world filth into the UK to kill off & disenfranchise you limeys, and you
are all afraid to even protect your children from them under penalty of law.
Jews in the US are doing all they can to disarm the white population so we
will be just as defenseless against the minority crime as you are over
there. In spite of Alan's naive denials, the Protocols, which time has
proven to be authentic, demonstrate the Jew/NWO modus operandus up to this
point in history, and I see no reason to belieeve that
the wealthy Jew & Gentile elitists who run the biz/banking/media of the
world will not continue their work to its conclusion. I believe the words of
Jesus , not the words of Alan. Alan is an outsider to the NWO, and can not
wrap his mind around the fact that he and his people are being used and lied
to. The fact is, though, that the NWO elites would be utterly powerless
without the cooperation of Alan & millions of other Jews who they have duped
into doing their treasonous, murderous dirty work for them.
William Black
>
> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:fi5ujs$4u3$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> But... What exactly would be wrong with a Jew dominated NWO?
>>
>> William Black
>
> If you like the way Palestinians are being treated in the Mideast or the
> way
> you silly Brits are becoming second class citizens in your own rapidly
> darkening country(or what is left of it),
We're not.
you will LOVE the coming
> New World Order. Though it is being promoted by the rich, godless elite of
> Jewry, it will not be Jewish, it will be satanic. Those same people
> thought
> nothing of supporting Hitler & Stalin in order to kill off and herd the
> remaining Jews of E Europe to Israel to populate the Rothschild fiefdom
> there.
I always thought the Rothchilds were an Anglo-French family of rich bankers.
They are responsible for importing wholesale quantities of violent
> 3rd world filth into the UK to kill off & disenfranchise you limeys, and
> you
> are all afraid to even protect your children from them under penalty of
> law.
Do you have some sort of proof of this?
> Jews in the US are doing all they can to disarm the white population so we
> will be just as defenseless against the minority crime as you are over
> there.
Which minority exactly?
I know there has been an upsurge in crime by Polish imigrants but I somehow
don't think that's what you mean.
As for being disarmed, nobody on the UK mainland has been issued a firearms
license for self defence for well over half a century now and somehow we
don't seem to have been overwhelmed yet...
In spite of Alan's naive denials, the Protocols, which time has
> proven to be authentic, demonstrate the Jew/NWO modus operandus up to this
> point in history,
The what?
The fact is, though, that the NWO elites would be utterly powerless
> without the cooperation of Alan & millions of other Jews who they have
> duped
> into doing their treasonous, murderous dirty work for them.
Who's Alan
--
William Black
Robert J. Kolker
>
>
> Barry is guilty of hate crime and belongs on the rockpile at
> Leavenworth.
>
> He despises non-Whites and Jews. It is pointless to argue with him.
>
> A new Democratic President will enact hate-crime legislation making
> Barry`s internet utterances criminal offenses.
>
> Barry is human garbage and is a traitor to the United States.
>
> The US knows how to deal with traitors.
It does? Then why did Robert E. Lee die in his own bed? Why did
Jefferson Davis die a free man?
Bob Kolker
Robert J. Kolker
Forty years and you are still raving about this? The Liberty was in a
war zone. Shit happens in war zones.
Bob Kolker
Rambler III
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:eyr1j.21766$Xg.8608@trnddc06...
> Susan
"...sort ofi magination,..."
You say what?
Sambi Cohen Ben Martachud Hagebor Ramati Henslie Mismalmonamick
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oh you claim you are a veteran? If you are you were dishonorably
discharged.
Sambi Cohen Ben Martachud Hagebor Ramati Henslie Mismalmonamick
> <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:eyr1j.21766$Xg.8608@trnddc06...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> >> "Rambler III" <Ramble...@xyz.com> wrote in message
> >>news:gx21j.38961$if6....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> >> > <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:dnY0j.3809$dh.369@trnddc05...
>
> >> > > On 21-Nov-2007, "Rambler III" <Ramble...@xyz.com> wrote:
>
> >> > >> <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> > >>news:ahD0j.14869$xt5.6516@trnddc07...
>
> >> > >> > On 20-Nov-2007, "Rambler III" <Ramble...@xyz.com> wrote:
>
> >> > >> >> > You don't have to be an expert to know that he's lying.
> >> > >> >> > And once you know he's lying, you then know why.
>
> >> > >> >> > Susan
>
> >> > >> >> One-liners don't cut it, and do little to refute his
> >> > >> >> comments.
>
> >> > >> > When you cut everything to which I was replying & expect me
> >> > >> > to remember...
>
> >> > [snip]
>
> >> > > Yes, I rather thought you'd dodge the whole thing.
>
> >> > If there is any dodging being done, it's your assertion that you
> >> > don't
> >> > recall what you wrote.
>
> > You;d think whith this sort ofi magination, these bigots could
> > actually
> > like, find jobs and be useful instead of spreading lies on Usenet.
>
> >> > [Besides, it's a simple matter to open your
> >> > "Sent Items" folder if you have any Neswgroup skill.]
>
> > As opposed to any spelling skill.
> [snip]
> > Susan
>
> "...sort ofi magination,..."
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
You were born lonely down by the riverside, ain't good looking and you
are a rambling gambling man that jacks-off.
Barry
"Robert J. Kolker" <bobk...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:xK2dnfjpENNfjdra...@comcast.com...
They died free men because Union forces for FOR freedom, not against it. As
much as the left wing trolls infesting this group hate to hear it, Linclon
and co. were not Marxists, just misguided Republicans.
Barry
read the previous posts and is so far removed from reality that he does not
know that the Rothschilds are Jews, and is oblivious to the foreigners who
have invaded the UK. What a joke...
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fi7112$9k0$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
Barry
beating our school children over the head with it. The Jews were in a war
zone, the Liberty was not. What hypocritic chutzpah! lol
"Robert J. Kolker" <bobk...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:xK2dnfvpENO9jNra...@comcast.com...