To the August and Learned Members of this Group
Charles Riggs
entertainment these past few days has not been up to par and I must
place the blame squarely on your shoulders. Do you expect me to find
the conversational excellence and diversity I demand here in little
old Westport? Nough said on that.
No, what we need are some new topics we can really dive into. Not
topics of the "What should I call Aunt Bee?" or "Tell me something
interesting about a telephone number prefix" varieties, but topics of
some substance that, hopefully, apply to getting a better grip on the
English language or on cooking.
So, Simon, Franke, Stephen, Skitt, Richard, Jan, Rey, the two Roberts,
Tony, Fran, Laura, Ranjit, Donna, Leopoldo, Joe, MJ, Murray, the two
Johns, NM, Padraig, Lars, Evan, Perch, Jacqui, the several Mikes,
Katy, Old Timer, and Matti, my mental health is in your hands.
Charles Riggs
jan sand
<chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>No, what we need are some new topics we can really dive into. Not
>topics of the "What should I call Aunt Bee?" or "Tell me something
>interesting about a telephone number prefix" varieties, but topics of
>some substance that, hopefully, apply to getting a better grip on the
>English language or on cooking.
>
>So, Simon, Franke, Stephen, Skitt, Richard, Jan, Rey, the two Roberts,
>Tony, Fran, Laura, Ranjit, Donna, Leopoldo, Joe, MJ, Murray, the two
>Johns, NM, Padraig, Lars, Evan, Perch, Jacqui, the several Mikes,
>Katy, Old Timer, and Matti, my mental health is in your hands.
>
>Charles Riggs
Those topics which have evoked the most fascinating venom have not
necessarily been centered on the topic of language. Despite the
general level of intellect of this group which seems to me to be
superior to all the other groups I have visited, a good deal of the
discussion here which has been pursued with vigor has been off topic.
Not that I object, since I probably have been one of the most
outstanding offenders.
Jan Sand
Fabian
"Charles Riggs" <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote in message
> So, Simon, Franke, Stephen, Skitt, Richard, Jan, Rey, the two Roberts,
> Tony, Fran, Laura, Ranjit, Donna, Leopoldo, Joe, MJ, Murray, the two
> Johns, NM, Padraig, Lars, Evan, Perch, Jacqui, the several Mikes,
> Katy, Old Timer, and Matti, my mental health is in your hands.
It seems you weren't sufficiently entertaining.
Of course, I'm special. I wasn't singled out for having a lacklustre
entertainment value #:þ
--
--
Fabian
Teach a man what to think, and he'll think as long as you watch him. Teach
a man how to think, and he'll think you're playing mind games.
Laura F Spira
My goodness, Charles is bored! Those of us who have lived with teenagers
will recognise this syndrome and will be practised in an array of
appropriate responses.
(How come Garry, Mickwick and Maria don't share in this awesome
responsibility?)
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Robert Lieblich
>
> From you I expect and demand better performance. My morning's
> entertainment these past few days has not been up to par and I must
> place the blame squarely on your shoulders. Do you expect me to find
> the conversational excellence and diversity I demand here in little
> old Westport? Nough said on that.
>
> No, what we need are some new topics we can really dive into. Not
> topics of the "What should I call Aunt Bee?" or "Tell me something
> interesting about a telephone number prefix" varieties, but topics of
> some substance that, hopefully, apply to getting a better grip on the
> English language or on cooking.
>
> So, Simon, Franke, Stephen, Skitt, Richard, Jan, Rey, the two Roberts,
Lissen, Chuck, you got one freakin' noive listing Cunningham and
Lipton and leaving me out. Angry e-mail to follow (if I can be
bothered). Just for that, I won't propose a thread on whether it is
true that most authors of contemporary popular fiction deliberately
eschew a distinctive style in order to keep the pages turning.[1]
[...]
[1] Not original with me, but I can't recall who did say it.
There's a tidy little subthread right there.
Robert Lieblich
[ ... ]
> Those topics which have evoked the most fascinating venom have not
> necessarily been centered on the topic of language. Despite the
> general level of intellect of this group which seems to me to be
> superior to all the other groups I have visited, a good deal of the
> discussion here which has been pursued with vigor has been off topic.
> Not that I object, since I probably have been one of the most
> outstanding offenders.
How about a thread on that use of "outstanding"? Didn't "egregious"
once have that meaning, and wouldn't it, in its current usage, be a
better choice today?
Franke
Robert Lieblich wrote:
It did indeed once mean outstandingly good, but now,
alas, it means outstandingly bad in most instances.
Here is what MW3 says:
Main Entry: egregious Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin egregius, from e out of (from ex) + greg-,
grex flock, herd * more at EX-, GREGARIOUS
1 archaic: remarkable for good quality :
DISTINGUISHED, STRIKING
2 : conspicuous for bad quality or taste :
NOTORIOUS *the egregious epicure who
condescended to take only one bite out of the
sunny side of a peach J.G.Lockhart* *a bilious
combination of brummagem [1] melodrama and
synthetic seascapes . . . the picture is egregious
John McCarten*
[1] spurious; phony; sham
3 a : EXTRAORDINARY, EXTREME *a published
story which seemed too egregious to be believed
Economist* b : FLAGRANT *egregious errors* *some
Germans, conditioned by experience to egregious
behavior on the part of their rulers E.J.Kahn*
4 : ASOCIAL *it is rather a gregarious instinct to keep
together by minding each other's business . . . we must be
preserved from becoming egregious Robert Frost*
-egregiously adverb
-egregiousness noun -es
Maria Conlon
Laura F Spira wrote
>Charles Riggs wrote:
There are some other current "regulars" not on the list: the two
Marks, Spehro, Truly, Fabian, R J (unless "MJ" is a typo; but if MJ
is Mike Powell, he already qualifies as a Mike), Aaron, Arcadian, at
least one of the Johns, Harvey, Jack, Jerry, at least one Joe,
Jitze, a couple of Davids, Prof. Lawler, Steve, felix, R H, Shakib,
Don, a1a, Gary, Sara, Rushtown, Gene, Joona, Chris, Geoff, daniel,
Martin, piddy, Ray, K1912, Spooky, Linz, Gwen, Alan, a Bob or two
(the ones who don't call themselves Robert), Bun Mui...
That list is in no partucular order, and is probably not complete.
It comes from a quick scan of the "From" column, plus memory.
Seeing those names makes me think that Charles just overlooked some
people. Not all, though. There is Fabian's point of view to
consider -- that the people Charles didn't list already provide him
enough entertainment. Also, it's my guess that more than one person
is "out of favo[u]r" with him. He would certainly not list the names
of the people he wishes to ignore or insult.
So to anyone whose name was left out, I suggest it's not worth
worrying about, whether you were forgotten (it wasn't intentional),
already blessed (possibly intentional, but good), or ignored
(possibly intentional, but if so, you have other, more important,
things to worry about -- what to fix for dinner, for instance).
As to his idea that people aren't providing him with enough
entertainment, I suspect that was an attempt at humor, which, had he
not mentioned names, might have worked.
I agree with what jan said, by the way: This group is superior to
the others I've seen. Even on its dullest days, there's always
something of interest.
Now, what shall I fix for dinner?
Maria (Tootsie)
jan sand
The definition in my dictionary of "egregious" is "conspicuously bad"
which I can accept as a reasonably good substitution for "outstanding"
with its freight of pejorative connotation. "Flagrant" would do as
well. "Outstanding " implies prominence with no other implication,
and perhaps I was being too kind to myself.
Jan Sand
Leopoldo Perdomo
I can not engage in grammar arguments as my knowledge of English language
is only intuitive. But I am amazed about how clever you all are.
I suppose this group is rather different than others; and a higher
intelligence quotient on your part could be the cue of this perception.
But if you are bored Charles, you must try on alt.highermaths.news or
alt.quantum.arguments to feed on hot topics.
Leopoldo
--
URL: http://leopoldo.perdomo.com
John Varela
> "Outstanding " implies prominence with no other implication,
MW Collegiate: 3 a : standing out from a group : CONSPICUOUS b : marked
by eminence and distinction
In my experience, outstanding always has a positive connotation.
--
John Varela
God has a special providence for fools, drunks, and
the United States of America -- Otto von Bismarck
Don Aitken
<Robert....@Verizon.net> wrote:
I think "egregious" carries a note of disapproval that "outstanding"
does not. One could strengthen it further by using "unconscionable".
--
Don Aitken
Padraig Breathnach
>... perhaps I was being too kind to myself.
>
You might as well be: nobody else will.
PB
Padraig Breathnach
>So, Simon, Franke, Stephen, Skitt, Richard, Jan, Rey, the two Roberts,
>Tony, Fran, Laura, Ranjit, Donna, Leopoldo, Joe, MJ, Murray, the two
>Johns, NM, Padraig, Lars, Evan, Perch, Jacqui, the several Mikes,
>Katy, Old Timer, and Matti, my mental health is in your hands.
>
It is an awesome responsibility. We are not up to it. Your mental
health is about to down the pan. Sorry.
PB
Tony Cooper
>
>
> No, what we need are some new topics we can really dive into.
Not so easy, Charles. Trying to start a new topic thread
here is a very similar to fishing: the bait is cast out and
it is up to fish to bite. The fisherman has little control
over the appetite of the fish.
--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles
Jack Gavin
news:l0i41uk921kf3u69e...@4ax.com...
I have recently acquired the knowledge that "pan" means "toilet bowl" in
cases like this, but is there a missing "go"? Or is "down" the intended
verb in this quaint expression?
American substitute: "go down the tubes".
--
Jack Gavin
K. Edgcombe
Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>From you I expect and demand better performance. My morning's
>
>So, Simon, Franke, Stephen, Skitt, Richard, Jan, Rey, the two Roberts,
>Tony, Fran, Laura, Ranjit, Donna, Leopoldo, Joe, MJ, Murray, the two
>Johns, NM, Padraig, Lars, Evan, Perch, Jacqui, the several Mikes,
>Katy, Old Timer, and Matti, my mental health is in your hands.
I think we're all missing bjg, myself.
Katy
perchprism
"jan sand" <jan...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3c1230a2...@news.mindspring.com...
I thought "outstanding offender" was a brilliant oxymoron. That'll teach you
to run your mouth and ruin the illusion.
--
Perchprism
(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)
Old Timer
> Charles Riggs wrote:
> >
> > From you I expect and demand better performance. My morning's
> > entertainment these past few days has not been up to par and I must
> > place the blame squarely on your shoulders. Do you expect me to find
> > the conversational excellence and diversity I demand here in little
> > old Westport? Nough said on that.
> >
> > No, what we need are some new topics we can really dive into. Not
> > topics of the "What should I call Aunt Bee?" or "Tell me something
> > interesting about a telephone number prefix" varieties, but topics of
> > some substance that, hopefully, apply to getting a better grip on the
> > English language or on cooking.
> >
> > So, Simon, Franke, Stephen, Skitt, Richard, Jan, Rey, the two Roberts,
> > Tony, Fran, Laura, Ranjit, Donna, Leopoldo, Joe, MJ, Murray, the two
> > Johns, NM, Padraig, Lars, Evan, Perch, Jacqui, the several Mikes,
> > Katy, Old Timer, and Matti, my mental health is in your hands.
Frankly, I've been thinking the same thing! Maybe we ought to return to
Homeland Security; the op-ed in Yahoo today has a quote to the effect that if
we question the necessity of certain recent additions to the normal secuirty
measures, we are aiding the 'enemy.' Treason? Aiding and abetting?
BTW, I noted yesterday a columnist contrasting public reaction on Dec.8, 1941,
with that on Sept, 12 and beyond in 2001. The import was the same as a remark
I made, somewhat facetiously, to a friend: if the American public had reacted
in '41 as it did in '01, Americans would all be speaking Japanese now. Lots of
rhetoric and soul-searching, but not much else.(1) The columnist pointed a
finger at DC, where the last rallying cry was "Life as usual."
And speaking of life as usual, here comes Sandy Claws! Complete with
fruitcake, which I happen to love, (There's some in the mail to me now, and if
anyone throws spores on it, woe betide the villain--and me too, I suppose.)
(1) I do not refer to the bombing in Afhganistan, which topic has already
created a large division among posters, I am talking of the undeclared 'war'
which is supposed to be being waged by the US on the homefront. It's not 'Buy
war bonds!' It's 'Buy a plane ticket!'
(If you just want to spend money, buy a little G- or Q---. That would help me,
at least.)
Padraig Breathnach
Because of my concern for Charles' mental health, my head outran my
fingers and "go" went down the pan.
PB
Simon R. Hughes
I suppose we could discuss the aue-specific intra-political
implications of the composition of the list. Or, perhaps, the
psychology of its compositor, based on its composition.
--
Simon R. Hughes -- http://www.geocities.com/a57998/subconscious/
<!--So much to do, so little time; so much time, so little done.-->
jan sand
wrote:
>I thought "outstanding offender" was a brilliant oxymoron. That'll teach you
>to run your mouth and ruin the illusion.
>
>--
>Perchprism
My dictionary defines "outstanding" as "standing out" or
"conspicuous" which, as I assumed, has neither a positive nor a
negative connotation. A secondary definition indicates it might imply
eminence or distinction, but even these might be interpreted
positively or negatively.
Jan Sand
jan sand
wrote:
I seemed to have made something of an impression.
Jan Sand
jan sand
<jackgavi...@home.com> wrote:
>"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@iol.ie> wrote in message
>> It is an awesome responsibility. We are not up to it. Your mental
>> health is about to down the pan. Sorry.
>
>I have recently acquired the knowledge that "pan" means "toilet bowl" in
>cases like this, but is there a missing "go"? Or is "down" the intended
>verb in this quaint expression?
>
>American substitute: "go down the tubes".
>
>--
>Jack Gavin
Is this an esoteric variation of "out of the pan and into the fire" ?
Jan Sand
Martin Ambuhl
> > So, Simon, Franke, Stephen, Skitt, Richard, Jan, Rey, the two Roberts,
>
> Lissen, Chuck, you got one freakin' noive listing Cunningham and
> Lipton and leaving me out. Angry e-mail to follow (if I can be
> bothered). Just for that, I won't propose a thread on whether it is
> true that most authors of contemporary popular fiction deliberately
> eschew a distinctive style in order to keep the pages turning.[1]
I am quite happy not to be listed among those that Chuck expects to
perform for his benefit. Had his list not been reposted by several
of the better-behaved AUE denizens, my killfile would have prevented
me from knowing that I was not on it. Don't bother trying to save his
mental health; he's gone.
perchprism
Don't tell me you looked it up before you hit "send" originally. Whatever
any dictionary might say, "outstanding" cannot be pejorative. If I say
someone is an outstanding pilot, is there any doubt I mean "exceptionally
good"? Could you see mention of an outstanding serial killer` and not think
that that was an odd way of putting it? If you read that an outstanding
feature of the '67 Stingray Coupe was the scoop, you're seeing the neutral
use. Have you heard the one about the farmer?
Spehro Pefhany
> I suppose we could discuss the aue-specific intra-political
> implications of the composition of the list. Or, perhaps, the
> psychology of its compositor, based on its composition.
Allegedly, the sexual orientation of a book indexer can be discerned from
their work, so why not?
Best regards,
--
Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
/.-.\
(( * ))
\\ // Please help if you can:
\\\ http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
//\\\
/// \\\
\/ \/
Murray Arnow
I once had a professor who was known for his dislike of staying after class
and keeping office hours to answer questions. He was described as outstanding
because the only time he could be approached was when was out standing in the
hall.
Richard Fontana
> And speaking of life as usual, here comes Sandy Claws! Complete with
> fruitcake, which I happen to love, (There's some in the mail to me now,
ObAUE: There's not "some" fruitcake, because there's only *one*
fruitcake.
Mike Oliver
>
> ObAUE: There's not "some" fruitcake, because there's only *one*
> fruitcake.
Eh? But I ate it. So now there should be *no* fruitcake, right?
perchprism
"Richard Fontana" <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.011208...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu...
Yes, and it turns up here every year.
Simon R. Hughes
[snip]
> That list is in no partucular order, and is probably not complete.
> It comes from a quick scan of the "From" column, plus memory.
That POV is only to be expected from someone whose name is noted by
its absence from the list. Personally, I am inclined to believe that
the list is a) complete, and more importantly, b) ordered by
Augustedness and Learnedibility.
Maria Conlon
Simon R. Hughes wrote in message ...
>Thus Spake Maria Conlon:
>[snip]
>
>> That list is in no partucular order, and is probably not
complete.
>> It comes from a quick scan of the "From" column, plus memory.
>That POV is only to be expected from someone whose name is noted by
>its absence from the list. Personally, I am inclined to believe
that
>the list is a) complete, and more importantly, b) ordered by
>Augustedness and Learnedibility.
The paragraph you quoted referred to my own list -- which was in no
particular order and probably not complete.
As for being absent from Charles's list, I would not expect to be
included with the "August and Learned." I'm surprised at some others
who were not named, though -- as I said, most likely an oversight.
Maria (Tootsie)
Harvey V
wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> Augustedness and Learnedibility.
Learn-edibility: remedial instruction for poisonous plants.
Harvey
Old Timer
Richard Fontana wrote:
> ObAUE: There's not "some" fruitcake, because there's only *one*
> fruitcake.
No---there is a very special recipe that circulated in East Tennessee for
years. The finished product bears no resemblance to the much-maligned product
most people know.
jan sand
wrote:
>Don't tell me you looked it up before you hit "send" originally. Whatever
>any dictionary might say, "outstanding" cannot be pejorative. If I say
>someone is an outstanding pilot, is there any doubt I mean "exceptionally
>good"? Could you see mention of an outstanding serial killer` and not think
>that that was an odd way of putting it? If you read that an outstanding
>feature of the '67 Stingray Coupe was the scoop, you're seeing the neutral
>use. Have you heard the one about the farmer?
>
>--
>Perchprism
>(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)
>
>
Now, now. Don't behave like an outstanding idiot.
Jan Sand
jan sand
<mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>As for being absent from Charles's list, I would not expect to be
>included with the "August and Learned." I'm surprised at some others
>who were not named, though -- as I said, most likely an oversight.
>
>Maria (Tootsie)
>
"August" according to my dictionary is "marked by majestic dignity or
grandeur" and, since my learning has severe limitations, my inclusion
on The List must indicate that Charles must have been on something
when he compiled it - if that's any compensation.
Jan Sand
jan sand
In Finnish there is a partitive case for nouns which exists in English
but was never pointed out to me when I took English here in New York.
It permits one to have "some fruitcake".
Jan Sand
Richard Fontana
That's 'cause you went to Stuy. Stuy was always known to be good for math
and science but not for English, at least not till Frank McCourt got
hired.
> It permits one to have "some fruitcake".
Jan, you spent years -- decades -- not watching American television, and
it shows. The most important years. NTTAWWT. I lived without a TV for a
few years, but that was in the PGWE.
Donna Richoux
> Don't tell me you looked it up before you hit "send" originally. Whatever
> any dictionary might say, "outstanding" cannot be pejorative. If I say
> someone is an outstanding pilot, is there any doubt I mean "exceptionally
> good"? Could you see mention of an outstanding serial killer` and not think
> that that was an odd way of putting it? If you read that an outstanding
> feature of the '67 Stingray Coupe was the scoop, you're seeing the neutral
> use. Have you heard the one about the farmer?
In New Jersey, can you renew your driver's license if you have any
outstanding parking tickets?
--
Just checking -- Donna Richoux
Simon R. Hughes
235 mph in a 30 mph zone is pretty outstanding.
Padraig Breathnach
>Thus Spake Donna Richoux:
>
>> In New Jersey, can you renew your driver's license if you have any
>> outstanding parking tickets?
>
>235 mph in a 30 mph zone is pretty outstanding.
Especially on a parking ticket.
And let's not forget the progressive farmer (all together, now):
"out standing in his own field".
PB
Garry J. Vass
news:9utbmb$arg65$1...@ID-113669.news.dfncis.de...
>
>
> As to his idea that people aren't providing him with enough
> entertainment, I suspect that was an attempt at humor, which, had he
> not mentioned names, might have worked.
>
Please allow me to flesh out your commentary with a short citation from the
formidable Dr. Johnson, "...it is incident to him to be now and then
entangled in such an unwieldy sentiment, which he cannot well express, and
will not reject; he struggles with it for a while, and if it continues
stubborn, comprises in it words such as occur, and leaves it to be
disentangled by those who have more leisure to bestow upon it..."
Another thing that I've been wondering about recently is the notion that the
term "FAQ" is being commandeered in current English usage. Or is this an
illusion?
There's an apparent trend for retail websites to have a FAQ page, which on
balance appears to be an unordered rehash of their terms and conditions with
a few references to their site map all in a very upbeat persuasive context.
If it's actually "terms and conditions", why not call it that? Perhaps
because people feel more comfortable reading a page entitled "Frequently
Asked Questions" rather than a page entitled "Terms and Conditions"? Is
that it?
Or is it just an unordered collection of whatever the webmaster decided was
ambiguous in the site? Or a further opportunity for ParcelForce to explain
how their site menuing system works. In their case, it looks like the FAQ
is saying, "...Excuse us for having such an opaque user interface, here's
some tips on how to use it..."
Or a set of detailed instructions for the intellectually challenged
(http://www.penguin-place.com/post/faq.html). "Your order has been
submitted! Yeah!" Yeah?
The so-called FAQ for Singapore's Ministry of Information
(http://www.sg/faq.html) looks like, and reads like, exactly what it is -
nothing more than an annotated site-map.
The investor's FAQ for Egghead (http://199.230.26.96/eggs/faq.shtml) has a
disclaimer on it advising the reader that their FAQ is for "informatonal
purposes only"...
Is there a convention somewhere that articulates a minimal threshold on
"Frequently Asked" as opposed to "Infrequently Asked"? I remember reading
that another newsgroup had fixed the threshold at 7, we don't have a
threshold in aue that I know of.
Is there a time dimension? If 7 questions on the same subject were posted
in 1995, and none since, are they still frequently asked, or has the passage
of time eroded their frequency? If not, then the alert user, having read
the FAQ and thereby answered his/her question and thus refrained from
posting it - hence having the long-term effect of making it less frequently
asked.
In this sense, I have a tentative theory that "FAQ" is being commandeered
from its noble roots as a verified collection of useful titbits about a
given area (drawn from questions that actually *were* frequently asked at
some point) and is being exploited as a marketing vehicle for commercial
websites and inept webmasters.
Aside from English usage, and even more ominously, does the Q & A format, as
evidenced in the proliferation of commercial FAQ pages, herald a new writing
style?
Did I have anything else to add?
No.
Am I almost finished now?
Yes.
What will I do next?
Eat dinner.
perchprism
I've always taken pride in being quick on the uptake, but you've stumped me.
Your reply bears a superficial resemblance to hostility, but I've trained
myself to look hard for the joke before taking umbrage. Nope...don't see it.
Please explain.
perchprism
"Donna Richoux" <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1f44jii.x4i44z18uf08fN%tr...@euronet.nl...
I wouldn't know, but I suspect not.
In case you were trying to give a counter-example, I'm sure it's obvious
that "outstanding" is simply descriptive there. It's the parking tickets
that are bad, and to say they're outstanding says nothing about their
qualities.
In case you were being funny: Har-de-har-har.
How'm I doin', Chuck?
jan sand
wrote:
>
>"jan sand" <jan...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> Now, now. Don't behave like an outstanding idiot.
>
>I've always taken pride in being quick on the uptake, but you've stumped me.
>Your reply bears a superficial resemblance to hostility, but I've trained
>myself to look hard for the joke before taking umbrage. Nope...don't see it.
>Please explain.
>Perchprism
Just kidding. Wouldn't you say thet the Marx Brothers were
outstanding idiots?
Jan Sand
>
Aaron Davies
Is this news? No.
Are most website FAQ's total perversions of the original use of the
term? Yes.
Did you write way too much for such a simple question? Yes.
If brevity is the soul of wit, of what is verbosity the soul? No,
really, I'm asking.
--
Aaron Davies
aa...@avalon.pascal-central.com
sig coming Soon(tm)
Aaron Davies
TYGA. Care to explain the new acronyms (= anal "initialisms")?
Aaron Davies
> The renowned Simon R. Hughes <hug...@tromso.online.no> wrote:
>
> > I suppose we could discuss the aue-specific intra-political implications
> > of the composition of the list. Or, perhaps, the psychology of its
> > compositor, based on its composition.
>
> Allegedly, the sexual orientation of a book indexer can be discerned from
> their work, so why not?
Only in Vonnegut novels.
jan sand
wrote:
>In case you were trying to give a counter-example, I'm sure it's obvious
>that "outstanding" is simply descriptive there. It's the parking tickets
>that are bad, and to say they're outstanding says nothing about their
>qualities.
>
>Perchprism
>(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)
Now that the umbrage is out of the way, perhaps I should explain my
point of view. " Outstanding", to me indicates standing out from the
average or ordinary and this can be accomplished either negatively or
positively. A plain statement of someone or something being
outstanding with no modifying adjective or adverb probably can be
assumed to indicate superiority, but with a modifier, it seems to me
it can indicate something extraordinarily good or bad.
Jan Sand
jan sand
Good Christ! Have you no mercy? What in Hell is all that alphabet
soup? I have never been a PGWE and it sounds like a bathing tub filled
with pig urine. The other one sounds like a hacking cough.
Jan Sand
Mike Oliver
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 18:43:48 -0500, Richard Fontana
> <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>> Jan, you spent years -- decades -- not watching American television, and
>> it shows. The most important years. NTTAWWT. I lived without a TV for a
>> few years, but that was in the PGWE.
> Good Christ! Have you no mercy? What in Hell is all that alphabet
> soup? I have never been a PGWE and it sounds like a bathing tub filled
> with pig urine.
I'm guessing "post Gulf War era".
I don't know about NTTAWWT, but I'll take a shot that the last four
words are "after World War Two".
perchprism
> On Sun, 09 Dec 2001 01:32:20 GMT, "perchprism" <gbl...@home.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"jan sand" <jan...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
> >> >
> >> Now, now. Don't behave like an outstanding idiot.
> >
> >I've always taken pride in being quick on the uptake, but you've stumped
me.
> >Your reply bears a superficial resemblance to hostility, but I've trained
> >myself to look hard for the joke before taking umbrage. Nope...don't see
it.
> >Please explain.
>
>
> outstanding idiots?
Yes, with the same oxymoronicness as in "outstanding offender."
perchprism
Umbrage? Au contaire, mon frere.
If that's how you hear the word, then there's no more I can say. But before
we return to our separate tents, please give me an example of "outstanding"
used to indicate something extraordinarily bad. "Outstanding idiot" didn't
work for me, because it's "idiot" that's bad.
--
Franke
John Varela wrote:
>On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 15:30:37, jan...@mindspring.com (jan sand) wrote:
>
>>"Outstanding " implies prominence with no other implication,
>>
>
>MW Collegiate: 3 a : standing out from a group : CONSPICUOUS b : marked
> by eminence and distinction
>
>In my experience, outstanding always has a positive connotation.
>
How about "The destruction of the WTC and the dozen or so buildings
surrounding it
is an outstanding example of how much damage a group of dedicated
fanatics can
inflict upon an unwary enemy"? Or should that be "the best example" or
"the worst
example"? Which of these three terms confers a positive connotation to
9/11? I suppose
"an egregious example" should also be in there.
Robert Lipton
perchprism wrote:
>
> "jan sand" <jan...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3c12d116...@news.mindspring.com...
> > On Sun, 09 Dec 2001 01:32:20 GMT, "perchprism" <gbl...@home.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"jan sand" <jan...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> >
> > >> >
> > >> Now, now. Don't behave like an outstanding idiot.
> > >
> > >I've always taken pride in being quick on the uptake, but you've stumped
> me.
> > >Your reply bears a superficial resemblance to hostility, but I've trained
> > >myself to look hard for the joke before taking umbrage. Nope...don't see
> it.
> > >Please explain.
> >
> >
> > Just kidding. Wouldn't you say thet the Marx Brothers were
> > outstanding idiots?
>
> Yes, with the same oxymoronicness as in "outstanding offender."
That's someone walking the plank, just before falling into the water, is
it not?
Bob
Robert Lieblich
[ ... ]
> If brevity is the soul of wit, of what is verbosity the soul? No,
> really, I'm asking.
Verbosity is the soul of obfuscation. I should know -- I'm often
verbose.
Consider who among us is most succinct -- Bun Mui, Piddy ... I'd
better stop there.
Comments?
Franke
Donna Richoux wrote:
I doubt that I could. Last I heard there was a warrant
out for my arrest I had so many. But I didn't do it. When
my 1st wife and I split, I gave her the car but wasn't thinking
clearly enough to have the ownership transferred to her name.
She took advantage of the situation and parked illegally all
the time. I don't think NJ had the Denver boot back in 1970.
Aaron Davies
Well, wit isn't always good. Consider what "shining wit" is a spoonerism
of.
Tony Cooper
>
> I doubt that I could. Last I heard there was a warrant
> out for my arrest I had so many.
Which brings to mind the word "scofflaw".
> I don't think NJ had the Denver boot back in 1970.
Known in the U.K. as a wheel clamp.
--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles
Richard Fontana
NTTAWWT = "not that there's anything wrong with that"; this has apparently
been in use for some time.
PGWE /pIgwi/[1] = "Post-Gulf-War Era".
S.US /pIgwI/
John Holmes
"John Varela" <jav...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:NKQS2gVdCOMx-p...@dialup-64.157.55.66.Dial1.Washington1
.Level3.net...
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 15:30:37, jan...@mindspring.com (jan sand) wrote:
>
> > "Outstanding " implies prominence with no other implication,
>
> MW Collegiate: 3 a : standing out from a group : CONSPICUOUS b :
marked
> by eminence and distinction
>
> In my experience, outstanding always has a positive connotation.
Well, having outstanding debts has a positive effect on the bank
balance, if only temporarily.
--
Regards
John
John Holmes
"perchprism" <gbl...@home.com> wrote in message
news:vCuQ7.294190$5A3.11...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...> news:3c126be1...@news.mindspring.com...
> > On Sat, 08 Dec 2001 18:22:36 GMT, "perchprism" <gbl...@home.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >I thought "outstanding offender" was a brilliant oxymoron. That'll
teach
> you
> > >to run your mouth and ruin the illusion.
> > >
> > >--
> > >Perchprism
> >
> > My dictionary defines "outstanding" as "standing out" or
> > "conspicuous" which, as I assumed, has neither a positive nor a
> > negative connotation. A secondary definition indicates it might
imply
> > eminence or distinction, but even these might be interpreted
> > positively or negatively.
>
> Don't tell me you looked it up before you hit "send" originally.
Whatever
> any dictionary might say, "outstanding" cannot be pejorative. If I say
> someone is an outstanding pilot, is there any doubt I mean
"exceptionally
> good"? Could you see mention of an outstanding serial killer` and not
think
> that that was an odd way of putting it? If you read that an
outstanding
> feature of the '67 Stingray Coupe was the scoop, you're seeing the
neutral
> use. Have you heard the one about the farmer?
You are kidding, aren't you Perch?
To restore the full sentence:
"Not that I object, since I probably have been one of the most
outstanding offenders."
Jan's "outstanding offenders" is entirely within the bounds of normal
usage:
1 a: conspicuous, eminent, esp. because of excellence. (AOD)
It is still perfectly permissible to say that something is outstandingly
bad provided the context makes sufficiently clear what you mean, as
Jan's full sentence does. Granted that the word is used much less often
that way, and I could think of half a dozen words I might have used in
preference. But there aint no law against it and "outstanding" didn't
give me any pause at all.
--
Regards
John
John Holmes
"Jack Gavin" <jackgavi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:FosQ7.244293$ez.34...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
> "Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@iol.ie> wrote in message
> news:l0i41uk921kf3u69e...@4ax.com...
> > It is an awesome responsibility. We are not up to it. Your mental
> > health is about to down the pan. Sorry.
>
> I have recently acquired the knowledge that "pan" means "toilet bowl"
in
> cases like this, but is there a missing "go"? Or is "down" the
intended
> verb in this quaint expression?
>
> American substitute: "go down the tubes".
"Down the gurgler" is the commonest equivalent around this way.
--
Regards
John
Bertel Lund Hansen
>And let's not forget the progressive farmer (all together, now):
>"out standing in his own field".
In bridge it's not at all uncommon to have outstanding cards.
That is not positive.
--
Bertel
http://lundhansen.dk/bertel/ FIDUSO: http://fiduso.dk/
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>How'm I doin', Chuck?
You're doin' good, Perch; I feel better already.
I haven't entered into the fray because I don't find "outstanding" to
be a particularly useful adjective and, as we've seen, it can be
misinterpreted in some cases. I like it as an exclamation though. For
sure, it always has positive connotations in that function.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>On Sun, 09 Dec 2001 01:38:47 GMT, "perchprism" <gbl...@home.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>In case you were trying to give a counter-example, I'm sure it's obvious
>>that "outstanding" is simply descriptive there. It's the parking tickets
>>that are bad, and to say they're outstanding says nothing about their
>>qualities.
>>
>>Perchprism
>>(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)
>
>Now that the umbrage is out of the way, perhaps I should explain my
>point of view. " Outstanding", to me indicates standing out from the
>average or ordinary and this can be accomplished either negatively or
>positively.
For sure.
> A plain statement of someone or something being
>outstanding with no modifying adjective or adverb probably can be
>assumed to indicate superiority, but with a modifier, it seems to me
>it can indicate something extraordinarily good or bad.
It isn't always clear which though, even without a modifier. If I said
"You have just made some outstanding observations", would you
interpret "outstanding" to mean outrageous or excellent?
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
>
>
>Donna Richoux wrote:
>>In New Jersey, can you renew your driver's license if you have any
>>outstanding parking tickets?
>>
>I doubt that I could. Last I heard there was a warrant
>out for my arrest I had so many. But I didn't do it. When
>my 1st wife and I split, I gave her the car but wasn't thinking
>clearly enough to have the ownership transferred to her name.
>She took advantage of the situation and parked illegally all
>the time. I don't think NJ had the Denver boot back in 1970.
It sounds like you were wise, though, to give her the New Jersey boot.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
Example (though I realize you were asking someone else):
Mr Cooper recently gave us an outstanding definition of informal
writing, which I won't soon forget.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<hug...@tromso.online.no> wrote:
>Thus Spake Maria Conlon:
>
>[snip]
>
>> That list is in no partucular order, and is probably not complete.
>> It comes from a quick scan of the "From" column, plus memory.
>
>That POV is only to be expected from someone whose name is noted by
>its absence from the list. Personally, I am inclined to believe that
>the list is a) complete,
Almost, anyway, but thank you.
>and more importantly, b) ordered by
>Augustedness and Learnedibility.
Not entirely, by any means. You being one outstanding exception, of
course.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<la...@spira.u-net.com> wrote:
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>>
>> From you I expect and demand better performance. My morning's
>> entertainment these past few days has not been up to par and I must
>> place the blame squarely on your shoulders. Do you expect me to find
>> the conversational excellence and diversity I demand here in little
>> old Westport? Nough said on that.
>>
>> No, what we need are some new topics we can really dive into. Not
>> topics of the "What should I call Aunt Bee?" or "Tell me something
>> interesting about a telephone number prefix" varieties, but topics of
>> some substance that, hopefully, apply to getting a better grip on the
>> English language or on cooking.
>>
>> So, Simon, Franke, Stephen, Skitt, Richard, Jan, Rey, the two Roberts,
>> Tony, Fran, Laura, Ranjit, Donna, Leopoldo, Joe, MJ, Murray, the two
>> Johns, NM, Padraig, Lars, Evan, Perch, Jacqui, the several Mikes,
>> Katy, Old Timer, and Matti, my mental health is in your hands.
>>
>
>My goodness, Charles is bored!
You misinterpret me. I never get bored -- that would be a different
topic -- but I do expect, and very often receive, a great deal from
this group.
> Those of us who have lived with teenagers
>will recognise this syndrome and will be practised in an array of
>appropriate responses.
Evidently my news serve either missed some lines, at this point, or
you haven't lived with teenagers.
>(How come Garry, Mickwick and Maria don't share in this awesome
>responsibility?)
By the nature of things and relationships as they are. I left out
Geoff, Albert, Earle, Martin, Steve Hayes, and Peter T. Daniels too.
Sara I left out unintentionally, as I've already mentioned.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 17:39:50 -0500, "Maria Conlon"
><mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>
>
>>As for being absent from Charles's list, I would not expect to be
>>included with the "August and Learned." I'm surprised at some others
>>who were not named, though -- as I said, most likely an oversight.
>>
>>Maria (Tootsie)
>>
>"August" according to my dictionary is "marked by majestic dignity or
>grandeur" and, since my learning has severe limitations, my inclusion
>on The List must indicate that Charles must have been on something
>when he compiled it - if that's any compensation.
Only caffeine and nicotine -- if that's any explanation.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>>
>>
>> No, what we need are some new topics we can really dive into.
>
>Not so easy, Charles. Trying to start a new topic thread
>here is a very similar to fishing: the bait is cast out and
>it is up to fish to bite. The fisherman has little control
>over the appetite of the fish.
If the fish aren't biting, the fisherman needs to find better bait.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>
>>So, Simon, Franke, Stephen, Skitt, Richard, Jan, Rey, the two Roberts,
>>Tony, Fran, Laura, Ranjit, Donna, Leopoldo, Joe, MJ, Murray, the two
>>Johns, NM, Padraig, Lars, Evan, Perch, Jacqui, the several Mikes,
>>Katy, Old Timer, and Matti, my mental health is in your hands.
>>
>It is an awesome responsibility. We are not up to it. Your mental
>health is about to down the pan. Sorry.
I'm not familiar with the expression: "about to down the pan".
Explain. (I suspect the American way of putting it would have been
"about to go down the drain", though.)
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
>In article <2ql31ushieuq1tsp1...@4ax.com>,
>Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>>From you I expect and demand better performance. My morning's
>...
>>
>>So, Simon, Franke, Stephen, Skitt, Richard, Jan, Rey, the two Roberts,
>>Tony, Fran, Laura, Ranjit, Donna, Leopoldo, Joe, MJ, Murray, the two
>>Johns, NM, Padraig, Lars, Evan, Perch, Jacqui, the several Mikes,
>>Katy, Old Timer, and Matti, my mental health is in your hands.
>
>I think we're all missing bjg, myself.
I agree; I left his name out only because he appears to have flown the
coop.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<hug...@tromso.online.no> wrote:
>Thus Spake Charles Riggs:
>> From you I expect and demand better performance. My morning's
>> entertainment these past few days has not been up to par and I must
>> place the blame squarely on your shoulders. Do you expect me to find
>> the conversational excellence and diversity I demand here in little
>> old Westport? Nough said on that.
>>
>> No, what we need are some new topics we can really dive into. Not
>> topics of the "What should I call Aunt Bee?" or "Tell me something
>> interesting about a telephone number prefix" varieties, but topics of
>> some substance that, hopefully, apply to getting a better grip on the
>> English language or on cooking.
>>
>> So, Simon, Franke, Stephen, Skitt, Richard, Jan, Rey, the two Roberts,
>> Tony, Fran, Laura, Ranjit, Donna, Leopoldo, Joe, MJ, Murray, the two
>> Johns, NM, Padraig, Lars, Evan, Perch, Jacqui, the several Mikes,
>> Katy, Old Timer, and Matti, my mental health is in your hands.
>
>I suppose we could discuss the aue-specific intra-political
>implications of the composition of the list. Or, perhaps, the
>psychology of its compositor, based on its composition.
I think you meant "the psychological state". Believe me, it's been
done.
Charles Riggs
John Holmes
>
> If that's how you hear the word, then there's no more I can say. But
before
> we return to our separate tents, please give me an example of
"outstanding"
> used to indicate something extraordinarily bad. "Outstanding idiot"
didn't
> work for me, because it's "idiot" that's bad.
I have seen things like:
"The worst feature of the recently released crime statistics was the
outstanding rate of unsolved murders".
"The outstanding factor in all these road accidents was..."
--
Regards
John
Padraig Breathnach
I intended to write "go down the pan", but missed. Equivalent to going
down the drain.
PB
Franke
Charles Riggs wrote:
I didn't realize it at the time--probably because I lost my first son to
her--but it was the best thing that ever happened to me before the birth
of my second son.
Fabian
"Charles Riggs" <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote in message
> >(How come Garry, Mickwick and Maria don't share in this awesome
> >responsibility?)
>
> By the nature of things and relationships as they are. I left out
> Geoff, Albert, Earle, Martin, Steve Hayes, and Peter T. Daniels too.
> Sara I left out unintentionally, as I've already mentioned.
You know Chaz, I *still* haven't been mentioned. Am I simply so brilliant
that words fail you?
--
--
Fabian
Teach a man what to think, and he'll think as long as you watch him. Teach
a man how to think, and he'll think you're playing mind games.
Robert Lieblich
... and they are mild.
perchprism
"John Holmes" <hol...@smart.net.au> wrote in message
news:9uvc1b$4kl$9...@perki.connect.com.au...
Different strokes, I guess. I'm not kidding; I find "outstanding"
incongruous with a negative connotation. I'd assumed jan was being playful.
The AOD definition has to be accounted for in full, including the "esp.
because of excellence" part. You can't pick one piece of a definition entry
and use it alone, you have to take note of the whole thing, so "eminent"
figures in as much as "conspicuous." AHD, "eminent":
********
1. Towering or standing out above others; prominent: *an eminent peak. *
2. Of high rank, station, or quality; noteworthy: *eminent members of the
community. *
3. Outstanding, as in character or performance; distinguished: *an eminent
historian.*
********
Defenition 1 is literal. The others are positive. Note "outstanding" in
definition 3. Could jan have been an eminent offender? I don't think so.
"Conspicuous"? Yes. "Outstanding"? Only by blockheaded literal-mindedness
and tone-deafness--oops, that was a bit harsh; I mean the word is more than
the sum of its parts.
obwhattheheck: In the movie *Flesh [sic] Gordon*, which I'm ashamed to admit
I've seen, the Evil Dude (Emperor Wang? It's hard to remember--the
possibilities are endless.) was addressed as "Your Protuberance." The movie
was pretty darned funny, as I recall, and no slimier than Bo Derek's
*Tarzan*.
--
perchprism
>
> "perchprism" <gbl...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:FTAQ7.294419$5A3.11...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
> >
> > If that's how you hear the word, then there's no more I can say. But
> before
> > we return to our separate tents, please give me an example of
> "outstanding"
> > used to indicate something extraordinarily bad. "Outstanding idiot"
> didn't
> > work for me, because it's "idiot" that's bad.
>
> I have seen things like:
> "The worst feature of the recently released crime statistics was the
> outstanding rate of unsolved murders".
Nope. It's the rate that's outstanding, not the murders. And, anyway,
speaking of rates and statistics sets up the literal, neutral use. This one
is pretty close to my line, though.
> "The outstanding factor in all these road accidents was..."
Again, there is no outstanding road accident.
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Different strokes, I guess. I'm not kidding; I find "outstanding"
>incongruous with a negative connotation. I'd assumed jan was being playful.
What am I? Chopped liver?
Charles Riggs
perchprism
You are congruous with a negative connotation.
Stephen Toogood
perchprism <gbl...@home.com> writes
>
>Different strokes, I guess. I'm not kidding; I find "outstanding"
>incongruous with a negative connotation. I'd assumed jan was being playful.
>The AOD definition has to be accounted for in full, including the "esp.
>because of excellence" part. You can't pick one piece of a definition entry
>and use it alone, you have to take note of the whole thing, so "eminent"
>figures in as much as "conspicuous." AHD, "eminent":
>
>********
>1. Towering or standing out above others; prominent: *an eminent peak. *
>2. Of high rank, station, or quality; noteworthy: *eminent members of the
>community. *
>3. Outstanding, as in character or performance; distinguished: *an eminent
>historian.*
>********
>
>Defenition 1 is literal. The others are positive. Note "outstanding" in
>definition 3. Could jan have been an eminent offender? I don't think so.
>"Conspicuous"? Yes. "Outstanding"? Only by blockheaded literal-mindedness
>and tone-deafness--oops, that was a bit harsh; I mean the word is more than
>the sum of its parts.
>
traditional dictionaries after all).
If one subtracts the meanings relating to commerce (unsettled, unpaid)
it's one of the shortest definitions in the book: one word.
Prominent.
It's clear to me that Mr Geddie saw 'outstanding' and 'prominent' as
synonyms. So, if Al Capone was a prominent gangster, was he also an
outstanding gangster? Certainly.
Do I have an outstanding belly? Apparently.
--
Stephen Toogood
felix
> Thus Spake Maria Conlon:
>
> [snip]
>
> > That list is in no partucular order, and is probably not complete.
> > It comes from a quick scan of the "From" column, plus memory.
>
> That POV is only to be expected from someone whose name is noted by
> its absence from the list. Personally, I am inclined to believe that
> Augustedness and Learnedibility.
Or by the order of the names that Charles has, over the years, carved
deeper and deeper into his ancient gnarled desk with the point of a
bowie knife, as, breath rattling in his throat, he plots their
disembowelling....
felix
ObSerialKillerNews: Did you see (where) Patricia Cornwell has spent $3
million on proving Sickert was Jack the Ripper? I'd've done it for
half that.
felix
> If the fish aren't biting, the fisherman needs to find better bait.
Surely one doesnt go fishing to *catch* anything....
Maybe you meant to say: if the fish aren't biting, the fisherman will
be undisturbed from his riparine idyll, watching the distant shapes of
trees come and go across a field of rain, and musing upon the world as
Will and Idea.
Thus AUE....
felix
felix
> Allegedly, the sexual orientation of a book indexer can be discerned from
> their work, so why not?
Source? Examples? This sounds fun!
felix
Spehro Pefhany
> Source? Examples? This sounds fun!
As previously mentioned, this happens to be mentioned in a Vonnegut novel.
While it may be fun to hint about such speculation, count me out on
actually doing it to anyone.
Surprisingly, it's not one of the "Frequently Asked Questions" to the
American Society of Indexers.
http://www.asindexing.org/site/indfaq.shtml
Unfortunately, indexing seems to be rather low-paying work (annual dues
are only $100 or $120). Many non-fiction books could benefit from a better
index. I'm going to pass the above link along to an author who has gotten
complaints about the indexing in his book, and is almost finished with his
third edition. He can't see how the index is deficient, which is probably
the norm.
Best regards,
--
Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
/.-.\
(( * ))
\\ // Please help if you can:
\\\ http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
//\\\
/// \\\
\/ \/
John Varela
>
>
> John Varela wrote:
> >In my experience, outstanding always has a positive connotation.
> >
> How about "The destruction of the WTC and the dozen or so buildings
> surrounding it
> is an outstanding example of how much damage a group of dedicated
> fanatics can
> inflict upon an unwary enemy"? Or should that be "the best example" or
> "the worst
> example"? Which of these three terms confers a positive connotation to
> 9/11? I suppose
> "an egregious example" should also be in there.
Since it is the example and not the destruction that is being described,
"outstanding" does in fact have a positive connotation. One could equally
well write "...an excellent example..."
--
John Varela
God has a special providence for fools, drunks, and
the United States of America -- Otto von Bismarck
Franke
John Varela wrote:
[...]
>Since it is the example and not the destruction that is being described,
>"outstanding" does in fact have a positive connotation. One could equally well write "...an excellent example..."
>
I thought about that after sending the message. I should have followed
Richard's advice.
However, I can imagine ObL wringing his hands with pleasure on 9/11 and
saying "That was
outstanding destruction, even better than I had hoped for". Under these
circumstances, I
suggest that the positive connotation is there with something most of us
consider negative.
The Marquis de Sade would surely have writhed and wriggled and squealed
"Outsanding and exquisite pain! Delicious suffering! I die! (= "j'arrive!")
Steve Hayes
>The renowned felix <fel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Source? Examples? This sounds fun!
>
>As previously mentioned, this happens to be mentioned in a Vonnegut novel.
>While it may be fun to hint about such speculation, count me out on
>actually doing it to anyone.
I've been wondering who indexes Vonnegut novels.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/steve.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
John Holmes
>
> "John Holmes" <hol...@smart.net.au> wrote in message
> news:9uvhvj$88c$1...@perki.connect.com.au...
> >
> > "The worst feature of the recently released crime statistics was
the
> > outstanding rate of unsolved murders".
>
> Nope. It's the rate that's outstanding, not the murders. And, anyway,
> speaking of rates and statistics sets up the literal, neutral use.
This one
> is pretty close to my line, though.
>
> > "The outstanding factor in all these road accidents was..."
>
> Again, there is no outstanding road accident.
By the same token, I could also say that it was the frequency or
blatancy* of Jan's offending that was outstanding.
*I perceive a slight ambiguity about which was meant, but the context
strongly implies one or t'other and I don't think it needs to be stated
explicitly.
--
Regards
John
John Holmes
>
> "John Holmes" <hol...@smart.net.au> wrote in message
> news:9uvc1b$4kl$9...@perki.connect.com.au...
> > To restore the full sentence:
OK, but I don't think a dictionary definition is quite exactly the sum
of all the partial synonyms used to explain it. Nor is it simply the
overlap between them. Rather it is something in between those, and you
have to use a bit of discretion in interpreting what it is getting at.
In this case I would say that 'conspicuous' is an appropriate substitute
and 'eminent' is not. If either or both of these were full synonyms for
'outstanding' then we would have no need of the word 'outstanding' at
all.
I have occasionally seen in US writing the word 'stand-out' used as an
adjective (e.g. the stand-out film of 2001 was...) Would you have found
it jarring if Jan had called himself a stand-out offender?
>
> obwhattheheck: In the movie *Flesh [sic] Gordon*, which I'm ashamed to
admit
> I've seen, the Evil Dude (Emperor Wang? It's hard to remember--the
> possibilities are endless.) was addressed as "Your Protuberance." The
movie
> was pretty darned funny, as I recall, and no slimier than Bo Derek's
> *Tarzan*.
I'll pretend I don't have a clue what you're talking about. It wasn't
shown at a sci-fi convention, was it?
--
Regards
John
perchprism
<snip>
> OK, but I don't think a dictionary definition is quite exactly the sum
> of all the partial synonyms used to explain it. Nor is it simply the
> overlap between them. Rather it is something in between those, and you
> have to use a bit of discretion in interpreting what it is getting at.
> In this case I would say that 'conspicuous' is an appropriate substitute
> and 'eminent' is not. If either or both of these were full synonyms for
> 'outstanding' then we would have no need of the word 'outstanding' at
> all.
It occurs to me that what we think doesn't matter, it's what the
lexicographer thought. Donna? Are you there? How exactly are we to interpret
the commas and semicolons in a definition? I always thought it was pretty
much as John says here.
perchprism
Of course I see what was meant, and "outstanding" was just barely over the
line, really, but still far enough to make that mental chalksqueak for
me--not irritating, but amusing (which is good). It looks like this horse
would be pushing up daisies if we hadn't nailed it to the perch, so what do
you say we stop banging it on the countertop and shouting in its ear?
Mickwick
>"perchprism" <gbl...@home.com> wrote in message
>> obwhattheheck: In the movie *Flesh [sic] Gordon*, which I'm ashamed
>> to admit I've seen, the Evil Dude (Emperor Wang? It's hard to
>> remember--the possibilities are endless.) was addressed as "Your
>> Protuberance." The movie was pretty darned funny, as I recall, and no
>> slimier than Bo Derek's *Tarzan*.
>
>I'll pretend I don't have a clue what you're talking about. It wasn't
>shown at a sci-fi convention, was it?
I saw it at a rather seedy West End cinema in the '70s. I was sixteen or
so and thought it was time I went to see a blue movie. Flesh Gordon is
not a blue movie - a lot of laughs and a few bare bosoms, as I remember
it. But perhaps I missed something important because a man in the next
row was so aroused that he felt it necessary to jack off into his flat
cap. I don't know if he wore it on the way out because the second film
was about sexually adventurous dentists and was so dull that I left half
way through.
--
Mickwick
Donna Richoux
I'm here, but if you still want my opinion on a dictionary definition
you're going to have to post it again. I looked at six or seven posts
back and see several definitions mentioned. I know what AHD is but what
is AOD?
I imagine that the precise significance of colons and semicolons will
vary by dictionary.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
perchprism
"Donna Richoux" <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1f49csc.1skkbge19wpf4dN%tr...@euronet.nl...
I wanted somebody who knows what they're talking about to go into how a
dictionary definition is to be interpreted--no definition in particular, but
for example, "hardly 1. Barely; scarcely; just." What's with the semicolons?
Why three basically synonymous words?
Or "refractory 1. Obstinate; unmanageable." Do we blend the two words, or
are they offered as alternate synonyms?
Or "happen 1. To come to pass; come into being; take place." These seem like
a list of closely related definitions.