Re: My talk about Godel to the post-grads.
Aatu Koskensilta
> Aatu Koskensilta wrote:
> > Nam Nguyen <namduc...@shaw.ca> writes:
> >
> >> Can't answer your question! What does "pussyfooting" mean?
> >
> > To "walk or act very carefully", as in your "somewhat suggests
> > ... might ... fully ...".
> >
> It actually means faffing about, wasting time by being over-cautious.
I'm not a native English speaker, so I've taken the liberty of
cross-posting in alt.usage.english. The knowledgeable pedants
frequenting that group will surely shed some light on this pressing
issue.
--
Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.kos...@uta.fi)
"Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, daruber müss man schweigen"
- Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophics
Barbara Bailey
news:82k5g9m...@A166.veli3.tontut.fi:
> John Jones <jonesc...@aol.com> writes:
>
>> Aatu Koskensilta wrote:
>> > Nam Nguyen <namduc...@shaw.ca> writes:
>> >
>> >> Can't answer your question! What does "pussyfooting" mean?
>> >
>> > To "walk or act very carefully", as in your "somewhat suggests
>> > ... might ... fully ...".
>> >
>> It actually means faffing about, wasting time by being over-cautious.
>
> I'm not a native English speaker, so I've taken the liberty of
> cross-posting in alt.usage.english. The knowledgeable pedants
> frequenting that group will surely shed some light on this pressing
> issue.
In AmE, to "pussyfoot" is to step delicately around; to move daintily or
carefully, either physically like a cat negotiating that tricky stretch
along the windowsill on his way from the back of the couch to the cabinet
full of knickknacks that will break if he pushes them off, or
metaphorically, using words or actions which allow for many
interpretations, which don't commit the speaker to any particular course of
action ("I hope to...", "I'd certainly like to...").
In the "won't commit" area it can also be used the way John suggests.
The metaphorical use is much more common than the physical use.
the Omrud
> John Jones <jonesc...@aol.com> writes:
>
>> Aatu Koskensilta wrote:
>>> Nam Nguyen <namduc...@shaw.ca> writes:
>>>
>>>> Can't answer your question! What does "pussyfooting" mean?
>>> To "walk or act very carefully", as in your "somewhat suggests
>>> ... might ... fully ...".
>>>
>> It actually means faffing about, wasting time by being over-cautious.
>
> I'm not a native English speaker, so I've taken the liberty of
> cross-posting in alt.usage.english. The knowledgeable pedants
> frequenting that group will surely shed some light on this pressing
> issue.
Pussyfooting (normally "pussyfooting around") is to prevaricate, to fail
to get to the actual action which one is supposed to be performing.
--
David
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> Aatu Koskensilta wrote:
>
> >>>> Can't answer your question! What does "pussyfooting" mean?
> >>> To "walk or act very carefully", as in your "somewhat suggests
> >>> ... might ... fully ...".
>
> >> It actually means faffing about, wasting time by being over-cautious.
>
> > I'm not a native English speaker, so I've taken the liberty of
> > cross-posting in alt.usage.english. The knowledgeable pedants
> > frequenting that group will surely shed some light on this pressing
> > issue.
>
> Pussyfooting (normally "pussyfooting around") is to prevaricate, to fail
> to get to the actual action which one is supposed to be performing.
The non-natives might want to know that that's the British
"prevaricate". In America, "prevaricate" is a synonym for "lie, tell
an untruth", and it's probably mentioned much more as an example of a
polysyllabic euphemism than it us used. My class clown called me a
prevaricator recently, just to see whether I knew what it meant.
As an American, if someone refers to "someone suggests... might" as
"pussyfooting [around]", I'd think they were using the word in a valid
sense. (I might not fully agree, though. I often think I see fairly
persuasive reasons for making qualified rather than what some call
blanket statements. Just one man's opinion.)
Have we done musical geniuses lately? How do Robert Fripp and Brian
Eno's fellow Brits interpret the album title /No Pussyfooting/? As
"no hesitation" or the way I interpreted it, "nothing wimpy"?
--
Jerry Friedman
the Omrud
> On Jun 28, 7:54 am, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pussyfooting (normally "pussyfooting around") is to prevaricate, to fail
>> to get to the actual action which one is supposed to be performing.
>
> The non-natives might want to know that that's the British
> "prevaricate". In America, "prevaricate" is a synonym for "lie, tell
> an untruth", and it's probably mentioned much more as an example of a
> polysyllabic euphemism than it us used. My class clown called me a
> prevaricator recently, just to see whether I knew what it meant.
I from answers.com that you speak the sooth, but I never came up against
this one before. I would be surprised if many BrE speakers knew of this
difference.
> As an American, if someone refers to "someone suggests... might" as
> "pussyfooting [around]", I'd think they were using the word in a valid
> sense. (I might not fully agree, though. I often think I see fairly
> persuasive reasons for making qualified rather than what some call
> blanket statements. Just one man's opinion.)
>
> Have we done musical geniuses lately? How do Robert Fripp and Brian
> Eno's fellow Brits interpret the album title /No Pussyfooting/? As
> "no hesitation" or the way I interpreted it, "nothing wimpy"?
I would take it as "don't beat around the bush".
--
David
Rotwang
<jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Have we done musical geniuses lately? How do Robert Fripp and Brian
> Eno's fellow Brits interpret the album title /No Pussyfooting/? As
> "no hesitation" or the way I interpreted it, "nothing wimpy"?
To my shame, this particular Brit was hitherto unaware of a
collaboration between Fripp and Eno. Is it as good as the lineup
suggests?
Django Cat
>Have we done musical geniuses lately? How do Robert Fripp and Brian
>Eno's fellow Brits interpret the album title /No Pussyfooting/? As
>"no hesitation" or the way I interpreted it, "nothing wimpy"?
>
I understand in that particular context Fripp meant it as 'get on with the job
in hand with minimal fart-arsing around' - though that isn't general BrE usage.
I believe 'no pussyfooting' was one of his dictums for how he liked to work,
regularly repeated - in a strong Dorset accent - during the making of that
album (and hence chosen later as the title). You could, if you wanted to, see
this as one of the roots of Eno's later systemised approaches to creativity,
such as the Oblique Strategies. I recently digitised my ancient vinyl copy of
'Before and After Science', and started thinking about Oblique Strategies, and
am now compiling my own set of creative prompt ideas. So far I've got about
15; my theory is if they aren't gathered as they arise randomly, they ain't
worth squat.
DC let me know if you aren't seeing my attributions, folks.
--
Django Cat
>> Aatu Koskensilta wrote:
>> > Nam Nguyen <namduc...@shaw.ca> writes:
>> >
>> >> Can't answer your question! What does "pussyfooting" mean?
>> >
>> > To "walk or act very carefully", as in your "somewhat suggests
>> > ... might ... fully ...".
>> >
>> It actually means faffing about, wasting time by being over-cautious.
>
>I'm not a native English speaker, so I've taken the liberty of
>cross-posting in alt.usage.english. The knowledgeable pedants
>
>
Who are you calling a pedant?
DC
--
Roland Hutchinson
>>> Aatu Koskensilta wrote:
>>I'm not a native English speaker, so I've taken the liberty of
>>cross-posting in alt.usage.english. The knowledgeable pedants
>>
>
> Who are you calling a pedant?
At least being called a "knowledgable pedant" beats being called
an "ignorant pedant".
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
Pat Durkin
news:uts9k.17307$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com
>> Have we done musical geniuses lately? How do Robert Fripp and Brian
>> Eno's fellow Brits interpret the album title /No Pussyfooting/? As
>> "no hesitation" or the way I interpreted it, "nothing wimpy"?
>>
>
> I understand in that particular context Fripp meant it as 'get on
> with the job in hand with minimal fart-arsing around' - though that
> isn't general BrE usage. I believe 'no pussyfooting' was one of his
>
>
> DC let me know if you aren't seeing my attributions, folks.
The attributions reappear in my Reply to Group composition window, after
being absent in the Read window.
Aatu Koskensilta
> At least being called a "knowledgable pedant" beats being called
> an "ignorant pedant".
Here in sci.logic "pedant" isn't exactly a term of derision. We're all
for tedious pedantry on matters logical, ostentatiously parading our
erudition for all to see, in the most boring manner.
--
Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.kos...@uta.fi)
"Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen"
Django Cat
>> Have we done musical geniuses lately? How do Robert Fripp and Brian
>> Eno's fellow Brits interpret the album title /No Pussyfooting/? As
>> "no hesitation" or the way I interpreted it, "nothing wimpy"?
>
>To my shame, this particular Brit was hitherto unaware of a
>collaboration between Fripp and Eno. Is it as good as the lineup
>suggests?
>
Yes, very much so. I was going to say there were two, 'No Pussyfooting' and
'Evening Star', but Amazon reveals a whole bunch of collaborations. 'No
Pussyfooting' also features a classic cover, with the two musicians sitting in
a room lined with mirrors - http://tinyurl.com/6ooyfm
DC
--
Django Cat
>> At least being called a "knowledgable pedant" beats being called
>> an "ignorant pedant".
>
>Here in sci.logic "pedant" isn't exactly a term of derision. We're all
>for tedious pedantry on matters logical, ostentatiously parading our
>erudition for all to see, in the most boring manner.
>
>
Nothing like that ever happens in AUE.
DC
Django Cat
>>I understand in that particular context Fripp meant it as 'get on
>>with the job in hand with minimal fart-arsing around' - though that
>>isn't general BrE usage. I believe 'no pussyfooting' was one of his
>.
>>
>>
>>DC let me know if you aren't seeing my attributions, folks.
>
>The attributions reappear in my Reply to Group composition window, after
>being absent in the Read window.
>
>
[Sigh]. Thanks for that, Pat. Dunno what's going on...
DC
Roland Hutchinson
> Roland Hutchinson <my.sp...@verizon.net> writes:
>
>> At least being called a "knowledgable pedant" beats being called
>> an "ignorant pedant".
>
> Here in sci.logic "pedant" isn't exactly a term of derision. We're all
> for tedious pedantry on matters logical, ostentatiously parading our
> erudition for all to see, in the most boring manner.
It's not exactly a label that all the posters in alt.usage.english would run
away from, either.
Roland Hutchinson
And we don't do irony, either.
tony cooper
>On Jun 28, 7:54 am, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>> Aatu Koskensilta wrote:
>> > John Jones <jonescard...@aol.com> writes:
>>
>> >> Aatu Koskensilta wrote:
>> >>> Nam Nguyen <namducngu...@shaw.ca> writes:
>>
>> >>>> Can't answer your question! What does "pussyfooting" mean?
>> >>> To "walk or act very carefully", as in your "somewhat suggests
>> >>> ... might ... fully ...".
>>
>> >> It actually means faffing about, wasting time by being over-cautious.
>>
>> > I'm not a native English speaker, so I've taken the liberty of
>> > cross-posting in alt.usage.english. The knowledgeable pedants
>> > frequenting that group will surely shed some light on this pressing
>> > issue.
>>
>> Pussyfooting (normally "pussyfooting around") is to prevaricate, to fail
>> to get to the actual action which one is supposed to be performing.
>
>The non-natives might want to know that that's the British
>"prevaricate". In America, "prevaricate" is a synonym for "lie, tell
>an untruth",
Glad you brought that up. I was startled by the Omrud's definition of
"prevaricate" there. To me, the only meaning is "lie".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Wood Avens
Am I the only Brit whose usage agres with Tony's and not with the
Omrud's? I certainly get irritated when people use "prevaricate" to
mean "procrastinate" (Margaret Thatcher did it once in a radio
interview), but from what the Omrud says, perhaps they're right after
all, and I'm living in a different century.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
LFS
> jerry_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Jun 28, 7:54 am, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Pussyfooting (normally "pussyfooting around") is to prevaricate, to fail
>>> to get to the actual action which one is supposed to be performing.
There is also a sense of indecisiveness, failing to choose between
alternative courses of action. And I comne across it quite frequently in
the sense of withholding an opinion, possibly for fear of causing
offence: "Stop pussyfooting around and tell us what you *really* think".
But can one sit on the fence and pussyfoot simultaneously?
>>
>> The non-natives might want to know that that's the British
>> "prevaricate". In America, "prevaricate" is a synonym for "lie, tell
>> an untruth", and it's probably mentioned much more as an example of a
>> polysyllabic euphemism than it us used. My class clown called me a
>> prevaricator recently, just to see whether I knew what it meant.
>
> I from answers.com that you speak the sooth, but I never came up against
> this one before. I would be surprised if many BrE speakers knew of this
> difference.
I do, possibly from reading a good deal of fiction by US authors and
noting the context of its use. But it's not far off the idea I noted
above, if you extend fear of giving offence to the notion of a white lie.
>
>> As an American, if someone refers to "someone suggests... might" as
>> "pussyfooting [around]", I'd think they were using the word in a valid
>> sense. (I might not fully agree, though. I often think I see fairly
>> persuasive reasons for making qualified rather than what some call
>> blanket statements. Just one man's opinion.)
>>
>> Have we done musical geniuses lately? How do Robert Fripp and Brian
>> Eno's fellow Brits interpret the album title /No Pussyfooting/? As
>> "no hesitation" or the way I interpreted it, "nothing wimpy"?
>
> I would take it as "don't beat around the bush".
>
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
K. Edgcombe
Wood Avens <wood...@askjennison.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>The non-natives might want to know that that's the British
>>>"prevaricate". In America, "prevaricate" is a synonym for "lie, tell
>>>an untruth",
>>
>>Glad you brought that up. I was startled by the Omrud's definition of
>>"prevaricate" there. To me, the only meaning is "lie".
>
>Am I the only Brit whose usage agres with Tony's and not with the
>Omrud's? I certainly get irritated when people use "prevaricate" to
>mean "procrastinate" (Margaret Thatcher did it once in a radio
>interview), but from what the Omrud says, perhaps they're right after
>all, and I'm living in a different century.
You're certainly not alone. I have always taken the proper meaning to be
Tony's, and the "procrastinate" meaning to be a simple error.
Whatever century it is, you and I are in it together.
But I would use "pussyfooting" to mean not just failing to get something done,
but failing in a particular way - treading rather carefully, catlike, for some
reason, and thereby taking far too long about something or not doing it at all.
Katy (the other one)
Robin Bignall
No attributions to quoted material appear in the Agent composition
window. Just the '>'s.
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
Skitt
> "Django Cat" wrote:
>>>> I understand in that particular context Fripp meant it as 'get on
>>>> with the job in hand with minimal fart-arsing around' - though that
>>>> isn't general BrE usage. I believe 'no pussyfooting' was one of his
>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> DC let me know if you aren't seeing my attributions, folks.
>>>
>>> The attributions reappear in my Reply to Group composition window,
>>> after being absent in the Read window.
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>> [Sigh]. Thanks for that, Pat. Dunno what's going on...
>>
> No attributions to quoted material appear in the Agent composition
> window. Just the '>'s.
There's a lot of that going on today. The "other Katy's" post also has it,
and there's no telling which post is Tony's (one she is referring to)
without doing some research I can't be bothered to do.
--
Skitt (AmE)
tony cooper
>But I would use "pussyfooting" to mean not just failing to get something done,
>but failing in a particular way - treading rather carefully, catlike, for some
>reason, and thereby taking far too long about something or not doing it at all.
>
Not that I throw "pussyfooting" into every day's conversation, but
when I do use the phrase I use it to mean "holding back" in a way that
annoys me. If, for example, I was to write a short story and ask
someone to critique it, and the person would review it too politely, I
might say "Don't pussyfoot around. Tell me what you think".
I used "annoy" there because "pussyfooting" is always annoying to me.
I don't get annoyed if someone politely reviews what I write, but when
I sense that the person is holding back some critical comments, then
the person is "pussyfooting around".
Now that I think about it, the usage is completely wrong. A cat on a
shelf of bric-a-brac will tread lightly and delicately to avoid
knocking over an object. Not, though, because the cat gives a damn
about the safety of the object or the feelings of the owner of the
object. The cat treads lightly to please itself. It's an "I can do
this" exercise for the cat.
The human who pussyfoots does so in order not to give offense. The
pussyfooting is intended for the benefit of the other person.
tony cooper
wrote:
>
>There's a lot of that going on today. The "other Katy's" post also has it,
>and there's no telling which post is Tony's (one she is referring to)
>without doing some research I can't be bothered to do.
Nothing special about it. I simply said that, to me, the word
"prevaricate" has only the "lie" meaning.
Skitt
> "Skitt" wrote:
>> There's a lot of that going on today. The "other Katy's" post also
>> has it, and there's no telling which post is Tony's (one she is
>> referring to) without doing some research I can't be bothered to do.
>
> Nothing special about it. I simply said that, to me, the word
> "prevaricate" has only the "lie" meaning.
Oh, *that* post. I remember now.
My only gripe was about the missing attributions, that's all.
--
Skitt (AmE)
Roland Hutchinson
> the Omrud wrote:
>> jerry_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Jun 28, 7:54 am, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pussyfooting (normally "pussyfooting around") is to prevaricate, to
>>>> fail to get to the actual action which one is supposed to be
>>>> performing.
>
> There is also a sense of indecisiveness, failing to choose between
> alternative courses of action. And I comne across it quite frequently in
> the sense of withholding an opinion, possibly for fear of causing
> offence: "Stop pussyfooting around and tell us what you *really* think".
> But can one sit on the fence and pussyfoot simultaneously?
It is not so much sitting on the fence as carefully walking back and forth
along the top of it without coming down on either side that constitutes
pussyfooting. You can sit on the fence without contributing much more than
a terse "no comment" to the debate (if that), but to pussyfoot you have to
talk all around the process of arriving at an opinion without actually
stating one.
Roland Hutchinson
> On 28 Jun 2008 21:31:09 GMT, ke...@cus.cam.ac.uk (K. Edgcombe) wrote:
>
>
>>But I would use "pussyfooting" to mean not just failing to get something
>>done, but failing in a particular way - treading rather carefully,
>>catlike, for some reason, and thereby taking far too long about something
>>or not doing it at all.
>>
>
> Not that I throw "pussyfooting" into every day's conversation, but
> when I do use the phrase I use it to mean "holding back" in a way that
> annoys me. If, for example, I was to write a short story and ask
> someone to critique it, and the person would review it too politely, I
> might say "Don't pussyfoot around. Tell me what you think".
>
> I used "annoy" there because "pussyfooting" is always annoying to me.
> I don't get annoyed if someone politely reviews what I write, but when
> I sense that the person is holding back some critical comments, then
> the person is "pussyfooting around".
>
> Now that I think about it, the usage is completely wrong. A cat on a
> shelf of bric-a-brac will tread lightly and delicately to avoid
> knocking over an object. Not, though, because the cat gives a damn
> about the safety of the object or the feelings of the owner of the
> object. The cat treads lightly to please itself. It's an "I can do
> this" exercise for the cat.
It is a behavior that evolved in order to avoid making noise that would
disclose the cat's position to its prey.
> The human who pussyfoots does so in order not to give offense. The
> pussyfooting is intended for the benefit of the other person.
Or to avoid disclosing the pussyfooter's position for some other reason.
R H Draney
>
>Now that I think about it, the usage is completely wrong. A cat on a
>shelf of bric-a-brac will tread lightly and delicately to avoid
>knocking over an object. Not, though, because the cat gives a damn
>about the safety of the object or the feelings of the owner of the
>object. The cat treads lightly to please itself. It's an "I can do
>this" exercise for the cat.
The cat, I'm led to understand, does this to avoid drawing attention to
itself....
(But then, not being a fish, how would I know if fish are happy?)...r
--
What good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone?
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
For me, it's redolent of genius but I don't enjoy it as much as I
think it deserves. (Unlike, say, King Crimson doing the songs from /
Discipline/ in concert, which was one of the great experiences of my
life.) But if you like Fripp and Eno separately, I strongly recommend
giving it a listen.
--
Jerry Friedman
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
[me] > >Have we done musical geniuses lately? How do Robert Fripp and
Brian
> >Eno's fellow Brits interpret the album title /No Pussyfooting/? As
> >"no hesitation" or the way I interpreted it, "nothing wimpy"?
>
> I understand in that particular context Fripp meant it as 'get on with the job
> in hand with minimal fart-arsing around' - though that isn't general BrE usage.
> I believe 'no pussyfooting' was one of his dictums for how he liked to work,
> regularly repeated - in a strong Dorset accent - during the making of that
> album (and hence chosen later as the title).
Thanks--not only did people tell me how the British understand it, but
you told me how the Brit in question meant it.
C. S. Lewis's praise of Dryden fell short of enthusiasm, but one thing
he did say was, "there is no fumbling at the exordium".
http://books.google.com/books?id=7RREt7eON04C&pg=PA325&lpg=PA325&dq=%22no+fumbling+at+the+exordium%22&source=web&ots=Ck1hfG4CJf&sig=MJ9ljl5TDJR8N46rLCkJv-bJZ8M&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
or <http://tinyurl.com/3uzbxu>.
> You could, if you wanted to, see
> this as one of the roots of Eno's later systemised approaches to creativity,
> such as the Oblique Strategies.
When I glanced at that, I thought it was more a weird work of art than
a weird way of encouraging one's creativity. But I've been wrong
before.
> I recently digitised my ancient vinyl copy of
> 'Before and After Science', and started thinking about Oblique Strategies, and
> am now compiling my own set of creative prompt ideas. So far I've got about
> 15; my theory is if they aren't gathered as they arise randomly, they ain't
> worth squat.
Magical thinking, sounds like.
Are you taking suggestions? "Get magical thinking down to a science."
--
Jerry Friedman
Django Cat
>On Jun 28, 9:08 am, "Django Cat" <notar...@address.co.uk> wrote:
>[me] > >Have we done musical geniuses lately? How do Robert Fripp and
>Brian
>> >Eno's fellow Brits interpret the album title /No Pussyfooting/? As
>> >"no hesitation" or the way I interpreted it, "nothing wimpy"?
>>
>> I understand in that particular context Fripp meant it as 'get on with the
>>job in hand with minimal fart-arsing around' - though that isn't general
>>BrE usage. I believe 'no pussyfooting' was one of his dictums for how he
>>liked to work, regularly repeated - in a strong Dorset accent - during the
>>making of that album (and hence chosen later as the title).
>
>Thanks--not only did people tell me how the British understand it, but
>you told me how the Brit in question meant it.
>
>C. S. Lewis's praise of Dryden fell short of enthusiasm, but one thing
>he did say was, "there is no fumbling at the exordium".
>
>http://books.google.com/books?id=7RREt7eON04C&pg=PA325&lpg=PA325&dq=%22no+fumb
>ling+at+the+exordium%22&source=web&ots=Ck1hfG4CJf&sig=MJ9ljl5TDJR8N46rLCkJv-bJ
>Z8M&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result or
><http://tinyurl.com/3uzbxu>.
>
>> You could, if you wanted to, see
>> this as one of the roots of Eno's later systemised approaches to
>>creativity, such as the Oblique Strategies.
>
>When I glanced at that, I thought it was more a weird work of art than
>a weird way of encouraging one's creativity. But I've been wrong
>before.
I didn't really understand What OS was, until I did some research a few weeks
ago after rediscovering 'Before and after Science' (wonderful record, featuring
Percy Jones, the rudest fretless bass player ever). One the things I read was
that Oblique Strategies was a way of recording those ideas for working better
which you get when you aren't actually involved in work, but which you forget
to remember when you're back working again - and this is something I do this
every time I go on holiday (tm). Recording each idea on cards in a pack allows
you to select a random prompt when you're back working and are maybe stuck for
inspiration.
There's more about Oblique Strategies here -
http://www.rtqe.net/ObliqueStrategies/OSintro.html and there's a generator here:
http://tools.blackhat-seo.com/strategies/# . Todays' comes out as "Do nothing
for as long as possible". Hmm. Good one, but I may have to reshuffle. And I
also think for the exercise to be worthwhile, it needs to be your own ideas.
>
>> I recently digitised my ancient vinyl copy of
>> 'Before and After Science', and started thinking about Oblique Strategies,
>>and am now compiling my own set of creative prompt ideas. So far I've got
>>about 15; my theory is if they aren't gathered as they arise randomly,
>>they ain't worth squat.
>
>Magical thinking, sounds like.
>
>Are you taking suggestions? "Get magical thinking down to a science."
>
>
I'll certainly take that one - which sums up Eno's working methodologies as I
understand them rather nicely. Mind you, I'd already gone with "there is no
fumbling at the exordium".
That brings my number to exactly 15, since starting on 30 May. I'll get back
when the list is a little longer...
DC
Django Cat
>>Am I the only Brit whose usage agres with Tony's and not with the
>>Omrud's? I certainly get irritated when people use "prevaricate" to
>>mean "procrastinate" (Margaret Thatcher did it once in a radio
>>interview), but from what the Omrud says, perhaps they're right after
>>all, and I'm living in a different century.
>
>You're certainly not alone. I have always taken the proper meaning to be
>Tony's, and the "procrastinate" meaning to be a simple error.
>
>Whatever century it is, you and I are in it together.
>
>But I would use "pussyfooting" to mean not just failing to get something done,
>but failing in a particular way - treading rather carefully, catlike, for some
>reason, and thereby taking far too long about something or not doing it at
>all.
>
>
I think it's avoiding tackling a problem through undue sensitivity to someone
else's feelings, and so it's different from the use being discussed upthread,
but maybe that's just me.
DC
Django Cat
>Not that I throw "pussyfooting" into every day's conversation, but
>when I do use the phrase I use it to mean "holding back" in a way that
>annoys me. If, for example, I was to write a short story and ask
>someone to critique it, and the person would review it too politely, I
>might say "Don't pussyfoot around. Tell me what you think".
>
>I used "annoy" there because "pussyfooting" is always annoying to me.
>I don't get annoyed if someone politely reviews what I write, but when
>I sense that the person is holding back some critical comments, then
>the person is "pussyfooting around".
That's exactly what I think it means.
>
>Now that I think about it, the usage is completely wrong. A cat on a
>shelf of bric-a-brac will tread lightly and delicately to avoid
>knocking over an object. Not, though, because the cat gives a damn
>about the safety of the object or the feelings of the owner of the
>object. The cat treads lightly to please itself. It's an "I can do
>this" exercise for the cat.
>
Ah, but maybe it describes how humans tread warily so as to avoid disturbing
the cat.
DC I nearly wrote 'disturbing pussy...'
John Holmes
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:14:19 -0400, tony cooper
> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:32:47 -0700 (PDT), "jerry_f...@yahoo.com"
>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Jun 28, 7:54 am, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Pussyfooting (normally "pussyfooting around") is to prevaricate,
>>>> to fail to get to the actual action which one is supposed to be
>>>> performing.
>>>
>>> The non-natives might want to know that that's the British
>>> "prevaricate". In America, "prevaricate" is a synonym for "lie,
>>> tell an untruth",
>>
>> Glad you brought that up. I was startled by the Omrud's definition
>> of "prevaricate" there. To me, the only meaning is "lie".
Read what he wrote again. I don't see any definition of "prevaricate"
there. He's just using the word in an attempt to narrow down what he
understands by "pussyfooting".
>
> Am I the only Brit whose usage agres with Tony's and not with the
> Omrud's? I certainly get irritated when people use "prevaricate" to
> mean "procrastinate" (Margaret Thatcher did it once in a radio
> interview), but from what the Omrud says, perhaps they're right after
> all, and I'm living in a different century.
I certainly don't agree that it means simply "lie". Prevaricators don't
usually say anything that is quite definite enough to be caught as a
lie. But they don't tell the truth either. It is something that many
politicians have turned into an art form.
If "prevaricate" means "lie" in AmE, then what means "prevaricate"?
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
tony cooper
wrote:
>Wood Avens wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:14:19 -0400, tony cooper
>> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:32:47 -0700 (PDT), "jerry_f...@yahoo.com"
>>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jun 28, 7:54 am, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Pussyfooting (normally "pussyfooting around") is to prevaricate,
>>>>> to fail to get to the actual action which one is supposed to be
>>>>> performing.
>>>>
>>>> The non-natives might want to know that that's the British
>>>> "prevaricate". In America, "prevaricate" is a synonym for "lie,
>>>> tell an untruth",
>>>
>>> Glad you brought that up. I was startled by the Omrud's definition
>>> of "prevaricate" there. To me, the only meaning is "lie".
>
>Read what he wrote again. I don't see any definition of "prevaricate"
>there. He's just using the word in an attempt to narrow down what he
>understands by "pussyfooting".
There is a definition in that he said "to prevaricate, to fail to get
to the actual action which one is supposed to be performing". That,
to me, is to "procrastinate". That it was a definition was
reinforced when he said "That's the British "prevaricate".
>>
>> Am I the only Brit whose usage agres with Tony's and not with the
>> Omrud's? I certainly get irritated when people use "prevaricate" to
>> mean "procrastinate" (Margaret Thatcher did it once in a radio
>> interview), but from what the Omrud says, perhaps they're right after
>> all, and I'm living in a different century.
>
>I certainly don't agree that it means simply "lie". Prevaricators don't
>usually say anything that is quite definite enough to be caught as a
>lie. But they don't tell the truth either. It is something that many
>politicians have turned into an art form.
To prevaricate is to say what is not true, and to say someone is
prevaricating is pussyfooting around by not baldly stating that they
are lying.
>If "prevaricate" means "lie" in AmE, then what means "prevaricate"?
--
Pat Durkin
news:4867...@dnews.tpgi.com.au
I learned "equivocate" to mean something like "pussyfoot", but now days
most people use it to mean "lie". "Hem-and-haw" would be another
"pussyfoot". The idea of all three of them indicates someone is fearful
of expressing the truth in an outright manner, and thus creates red
herrings and side-tracks to disguise the truth. He thereby creates
distrust in the listener, which is just as good as a lie, but he can
salve his conscience.
(Or, "Tell me again, Daddy, how we got into the war.")
the Omrud
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:03:44 +1000, "John Holmes" <see...@instead.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Wood Avens wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:14:19 -0400, tony cooper
>>> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:32:47 -0700 (PDT), "jerry_f...@yahoo.com"
>>>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:54 am, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Pussyfooting (normally "pussyfooting around") is to prevaricate,
>>>>>> to fail to get to the actual action which one is supposed to be
>>>>>> performing.
>>>>> The non-natives might want to know that that's the British
>>>>> "prevaricate". In America, "prevaricate" is a synonym for "lie,
>>>>> tell an untruth",
>>>> Glad you brought that up. I was startled by the Omrud's definition
>>>> of "prevaricate" there. To me, the only meaning is "lie".
>> Read what he wrote again. I don't see any definition of "prevaricate"
>> there. He's just using the word in an attempt to narrow down what he
>> understands by "pussyfooting".
>
> There is a definition in that he said "to prevaricate, to fail to get
> to the actual action which one is supposed to be performing". That,
> to me, is to "procrastinate". That it was a definition was
> reinforced when he said "That's the British "prevaricate".
"He" being somebody other than me.
For the record, "prevaricate" definitely doesn't mean "lie" to me.
--
David
tony cooper
I know you wouldn't prevaricate in here, but with that understanding
of the word you would have a difficult time following an American news
story where "prevaricate" was used. If the meaning is different over
there, then I would have difficulty understanding a story using the
meaning you cite.
All's clear now, of course, so future readings will be clear to both
of us if we check the origination of the article.
the Omrud
No need. Your style is instantly recognisable.
--
David
Donna Richoux
[snip question re "pussyfooting"]
>
> In AmE, to "pussyfoot" is to step delicately around; to move daintily or
> carefully, either physically like a cat negotiating that tricky stretch
> along the windowsill on his way from the back of the couch to the cabinet
> full of knickknacks that will break if he pushes them off, or
> metaphorically, using words or actions which allow for many
> interpretations, which don't commit the speaker to any particular course of
> action ("I hope to...", "I'd certainly like to...").
>
> In the "won't commit" area it can also be used the way John suggests.
>
> The metaphorical use is much more common than the physical use.
This discussion got me wondering how old the term was... This post on
word origins seems to sum up pretty well what I see in various
references:
From
http://tribes.tribe.net/triviarocks/thread/9c2a19f8-c0a4-4a09-90b7-a3045
2bf03df
The term is American in origin and, in adjectival form, dates to at
least 1893. From Scribner's Magazine of November of that year:
Men who were beginning to walk pussy-footed and shy at shadows.
The verb appears by 1903. From the Atlanta Constitution of 20 March:
Vice President Charles Warren Fairbanks is pussy-footing it around
Washington.
And the noun even later. Jackson & Hellyer's 1914 A Vocabulary of
Criminal Slang glosses pussy foot as "a detective." The sense meaning a
sly person, one who metaphorically treads cautiously appears a few years
later. From Dialect Notes of 1916:
Pussy-foot, v.i. To be sly, intriguing, or underhand. "That girl goes
pussy-footing around." Also n. "She's a regular pussy-foot."
[Snip lengthy discussion of "pussyfooter" in that era also meaning a
teetotaler, in Britain. This usage comes from the nickname of William E.
"Pussyfoot" Johnson, an American prohibitionist who traveled to London
in 1916 to spread the good word. ]
It is often claimed that Theodore Roosevelt coined the term pussyfoot.
While the Square Deal and the Big Stick are two he (or at least his
speech writers) did invent, pussyfoot is not in that company. While
Roosevelt did use the term, as we have seen, it was in existence prior
to his making a name for himself in politics.
[END QUOTE]
I would have just suggested consulting that webpage for the entire
article, but it was so full of brazen errors from other contributors,
starting with the "rule of thumb" theory, that I just couldn't bear
opening so many cans of worms at once.
--
Best wishes -- Donna Richoux
Alan Jones
news:71P9k.17856$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
[long argument with Tony Cooper]
I don't understand "prevaricate" in BrE to mean either "to lie" (as TC
assures us it means in AmE) or "to fail to get to the actual action which
one is supposed to be performing" (as David put it), a near-synonym of
"procrastinate". I take the meaning in BrE to be what NSOED gives as sense
2: "Deviate from straightforwardness; act or speak evasively; quibble,
equivocate".
Alan Jones
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
I agree with that.
I don't use the word myself but that is how I interpret other
people's use of it. So far the correctness of this
interpretation has been supported by the contexts in which I
have met it.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
tony cooper
<a...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>"the Omrud" <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote in message
>news:71P9k.17856$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>[long argument with Tony Cooper]
>
I prefer "exchange of ideas".
John Jones
> Aatu Koskensilta <aatu.kos...@uta.fi> wrote in
> news:82k5g9m...@A166.veli3.tontut.fi:
>
>> John Jones <jonesc...@aol.com> writes:
>>
>>> Aatu Koskensilta wrote:
>>>> Nam Nguyen <namduc...@shaw.ca> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Can't answer your question! What does "pussyfooting" mean?
>>>> To "walk or act very carefully", as in your "somewhat suggests
>>>> ... might ... fully ...".
>>>>
>>> It actually means faffing about, wasting time by being over-cautious.
>> I'm not a native English speaker, so I've taken the liberty of
>> cross-posting in alt.usage.english. The knowledgeable pedants
>> frequenting that group will surely shed some light on this pressing
>> issue.
>
>
> In AmE, to "pussyfoot" is to step delicately around; to move daintily or
> carefully, either physically like a cat negotiating that tricky stretch
> along the windowsill on his way from the back of the couch to the cabinet
> full of knickknacks that will break if he pushes them off, or
> metaphorically, using words or actions which allow for many
> interpretations, which don't commit the speaker to any particular course of
> action ("I hope to...", "I'd certainly like to...").
>
> In the "won't commit" area it can also be used the way John suggests.
>
> The metaphorical use is much more common than the physical use.
>
"Pussy-footing about" is always used as a quite derogatory description
of someones activities, in the UK at least.
It means wasting time and effort by taking too many small, directionless
steps - taking pussy (kitten) steps.
the Omrud
> "the Omrud" <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote in message
> news:71P9k.17856$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> [long argument with Tony Cooper]
Goodness, if you count that as long or an argument, you must have lead a
sheltered life.
--
David
Paul Wolff
>In article <ro3d64dft5ikeh616...@4ax.com>,
>Wood Avens <wood...@askjennison.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>The non-natives might want to know that that's the British
>>>>"prevaricate". In America, "prevaricate" is a synonym for "lie, tell
>>>>an untruth",
>>>
>>>Glad you brought that up. I was startled by the Omrud's definition of
>>>"prevaricate" there. To me, the only meaning is "lie".
>>
>>Omrud's? I certainly get irritated when people use "prevaricate" to
>>mean "procrastinate" (Margaret Thatcher did it once in a radio
>>interview), but from what the Omrud says, perhaps they're right after
>>all, and I'm living in a different century.
>
>Tony's, and the "procrastinate" meaning to be a simple error.
>
>Whatever century it is, you and I are in it together.
>
>But I would use "pussyfooting" to mean not just failing to get something done,
>but failing in a particular way - treading rather carefully, catlike, for some
>reason, and thereby taking far too long about something or not doing it at all.
>
actually lying. It is to be evasive in reply, to fail to commit to a
point of view. This might lead to confusion with procrastinate, which
means to hold back from the task in hand altogether. If someone
prevaricates about their intentions to get on with a task, then they
mayn't be far from procrastination either.
--
Paul
Paul Wolff
>Roland Hutchinson <my.sp...@verizon.net> writes:
>
>> At least being called a "knowledgable pedant" beats being called
>> an "ignorant pedant".
>
>Here in sci.logic "pedant" isn't exactly a term of derision. We're all
>for tedious pedantry on matters logical, ostentatiously parading our
>erudition for all to see, in the most boring manner.
>
Oh, good. Then I can safely ask, what's with this non-U version of
Wittgenstein's little book, down below?
>--
>Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.kos...@uta.fi)
>
>"Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen"
> - Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophics
--
Paul
Robin Bignall
We could get into a long discussion about whether teaching at a
high-quality boys' school is particularly sheltered, boys being boys.
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
the Omrud
Does a high-quality boys' school contain high quality boys?
--
David
Nick Spalding
on Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:56:54 GMT:
I remember a description of one such as ' a school for the fathers of
gentlemen'.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
CDB
[starts with p; puts me right off]
> No-one has it right. To prevaricate is to avoid a frank answer
> without actually lying. It is to be evasive in reply, to fail to
> commit to a point of view. This might lead to confusion with
> procrastinate, which means to hold back from the task in hand
> altogether. If someone prevaricates about their intentions to get
> on with a task, then they mayn't be far from procrastination either.
That made me think of possible confusion with "equivocate", to "lie
like truth" in Macbeth. " I pull in resolution, and begin/ To doubt
the equivocation of the fiend/ That lies like truth: 'Fear not, till
Birnam wood/ Do come to Dunsinane:' "
CDB
Oops.
Robin Bignall
<usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
It oughta, considering the fees.