=SDC= Q13: Border Conflicts
Jerry Friedman
Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
Sudan, Venezuela
--
Jerry Friedman, T. O. Panelist
Peter Moylan
> What is this a complete list of?
>
>
> Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
> Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
> Sudan, Venezuela
The countries whose economies are doing better than the USA's?
(I was going to give a different answer, but I don't think the US
military ever intervened in French Guiana. Or PR China, now that I think
of it.)
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Ray O'Hara
"Peter Moylan" <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:65idnWmyHOpVNtDT...@westnet.com.au...
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> What is this a complete list of?
>>
>>
>> Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
>> Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
>> Sudan, Venezuela
>
> The countries whose economies are doing better than the USA's?
>
> (I was going to give a different answer, but I don't think the US
> military ever intervened in French Guiana. Or PR China, now that I think
>
other than some commando raids in the korean war and afterwards..
msh210
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > What is this a complete list of?
> >
> > Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
> > Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
> > Sudan, Venezuela
>
> The countries whose economies are doing better than the USA's?
That can't be right, as not all of them are countries.
Michael Hamm
T.O.N.A.T.M.A.A.S.G.
(Totally Official Non-Hinter At The Moment And All-Around Sinister Guy)
LFS
> What is this a complete list of?
>
>
> Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
> Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
> Sudan, Venezuela
>
Countries where my MSc students have come from (not sure about Angola,
but I've taught students from all the others).
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
R H Draney
>
>What is this a complete list of?
>
>
>Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
>Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
>Sudan, Venezuela
Countries that manufacture American cars....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
John Holmes
> What is this a complete list of?
>
>
> Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
> Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
> Sudan, Venezuela
All the countries named in this question.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
James Hogg
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> What is this a complete list of?
>>
>>
>> Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
>> Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
>> Sudan, Venezuela
>
> All the countries named in this question.
Countries where Borderline Personality Disorder is a criminal offence?
--
James
Harrison Hill
wrote:
> What is this a complete list of?
>
> Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
> Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
> Sudan, Venezuela
All the countries that have 6 neighbours or more.
Harrison Hill
Oops no, Niger isn't in there, and Congo shouldn't be in there, so I
am wrong.
James Hogg
French Guiana made that obvious.
--
James
Harrison Hill
Not if you consider the sea to be a fluid "border" in which case
French Guiana is contiguous with many countries, including your own.
Peter Moylan
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> What is this a complete list of?
>>
>>
>> Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
>> Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
>> Sudan, Venezuela
>
> All the countries named in this question.
>
msh210
> > >>> Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
> > >>> Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
> > >>> Sudan, Venezuela
> > >> All the countries that have 6 neighbours or more.
>
> > > Oops no, Niger isn't in there, and Congo shouldn't be in there, so I
> > > am wrong.
>
> > French Guiana made that obvious.
>
> Not if you consider the sea to be a fluid "border" in which case
> French Guiana is contiguous with many countries, including your own.
In which case, you've left out quite a few, right?
Michael Hamm
Athel Cornish-Bowden
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Sorry for my earlier "reply" with no content. I deleted everything I
had written and intended to delete my comment itself, but pressed
"Send" instead.
--
athel
Harrison Hill
Not if you consider the underground borders that all countries have
with each other deep within the ground, no I think I have erred on the
side of being over generous. Water covers the soil, soil covers the
soil, soil is a kind of water.
Mark Brader
> > What is this a complete list of?
> >
> >
> > Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
> > Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
> > Sudan, Venezuela
> All the countries named in this question.
All the *places* named in this question.
--
Mark Brader "If Benjamin Franklin was alive today, he'd be
Toronto arrested for sailing a kite without a license."
m...@vex.net -- Tucker: The Man and his Dream
franzi
You've got it - the answer lies in the soil. Apart from two sea
crossings, between Brazil and Angola in the South Atlantic Ocean where
the South American plate is separating from the African plate, and
between Somalia and Iran across the Arabian Sea where the Arabian plate
is squished between the African plate and the Eurasian plate but trying
to move northwards out of the way, all these territories are contiguous,
and can be toured by bicycle (even if you have to get off and push
sometimes) without straying into any other territory (if you don't
wobble on the long finger of Afghanistan pointing to the Uighurs of
Chinastan).
Maybe they are the countries visited by someone on a journey from
Venezuela, across Africa, and then from Iran into Indo-China. Or the
other way. Or maybe there's significance in the sinuous form of this
chain of territories: they almost look like the trajectory of an
eclipse, except for the jumps and the fine variations.
Food for further thought, perhaps.
--
franzi
R H Draney
>
>You've got it - the answer lies in the soil. Apart from two sea
>crossings, between Brazil and Angola in the South Atlantic Ocean where
>the South American plate is separating from the African plate, and
>between Somalia and Iran across the Arabian Sea where the Arabian plate
>is squished between the African plate and the Eurasian plate but trying
>to move northwards out of the way, all these territories are contiguous,
>and can be toured by bicycle (even if you have to get off and push
>sometimes) without straying into any other territory (if you don't
>wobble on the long finger of Afghanistan pointing to the Uighurs of
>Chinastan).
I used to believe in continental drift, but now I have some doubts:
http://cubiclebot.com/pictures/a-little-known-fact-about-minnesota/
Vinny Burgoo
Seen from space, Newport in South Wales looks like instructions on how
to insert...
But back to the competition.
Here's a map of the listed territories:
http://alt-usage-english.org/sdc2011/SDC-Q13-map.png
--
VB
T. O. Panellist
franzi
It looked to me at first a bit like an eclipse trajectory, but was too
irregular (and too thin, at the northeast finger of Afghanistan).
--
franzi
Harrison Hill
I have banned people who have killfiled me from responding to me
Athel, and I hope you will respect my wishes in that regard. You are
bound to get into this sort of a kerfuffle if you try to respond to me
from third remove.
Vinny Burgoo
State your claim and claim your sheep. I'm almost sure you know the
answer.
Martin Ambuhl
> I have banned people who have killfiled me from responding to me
> Athel, and I hope you will respect my wishes in that regard. You are
> bound to get into this sort of a kerfuffle if you try to respond to me
> from third remove.
Telling other people not to respond is not likely to be productive. You
have no ability or even a passing acquaintance with a right to impose
such requirements on others. On the other hand, you can always learn to
use a kill file of your own and avoid seeing posts from those that you
would "ban".
Harrison Hill
> franzi filted:
>
>
>
> >You've got it - the answer lies in the soil. Apart from two sea
> >crossings, between Brazil and Angola in the South Atlantic Ocean where
> >the South American plate is separating from the African plate, and
> >between Somalia and Iran across the Arabian Sea where the Arabian plate
> >is squished between the African plate and the Eurasian plate but trying
> >to move northwards out of the way, all these territories are contiguous,
> >and can be toured by bicycle (even if you have to get off and push
> >sometimes) without straying into any other territory (if you don't
> >wobble on the long finger of Afghanistan pointing to the Uighurs of
> >Chinastan).
Fairy wheels (AmE: stabilizers) would prevent wobbles of that kind. It
is lucky that the Fukishima plant is merely a nuclear installation,
and not one that makes very large towels. If a few million very large
towels had fallen into the ocean they would have completely dried it
up! Another good Simpons moment here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfy1XqfmL1Y
msh210
> > > What is this a complete list of?
> > >
> > > Afghanistan, Angola, Brazil, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, PR China, DR
> > > Congo, Ethiopia, French Guiana, Iran, Laos, Rwanda, Somalia, South
> > > Sudan, Venezuela
> >
> > The countries whose economies are doing better than the USA's?
>
> That can't be right, as not all of them are countries.
Moreover, that wouldn't fit the slug line (or not as well as the TO
answer does, anyway).
Michael Hamm
TO Panelist
franzi
known.
--
franzi
Vinny Burgoo
Hint: The T. O. map is coloured in green ink, not red, for a reason.
msh210
> Hint: The T. O. map is coloured in green ink, not red, for a reason.
Garn!
Michael Hamm
TO Panelist
the Omrud
> On Aug 22, Vinny Burgoo, TO Panelist, abed:
>> Hint: The T. O. map is coloured in green ink, not red, for a reason.
>
> Garn!
I have been thinking that this has something to do with the orbit of an
artificial satellite such as the International Space Station, or of the
path of a solar or lunar eclipse, but there seem to be too many gaps
such as the Arabian peninsula. South Sudan certainly never put anybody
into space. Nor can these countries relate to space sickness.
--
David
Vinny Burgoo
msh210
which, on second thought, Totally Officially has at least one slight
problem. Nonetheless it should give you a good general hint.
Michael Hamm
TO Panelist
Vinny Burgoo
The Panel has, as always, removed all problems invisibly.
Mark Brader
> >
> > http://alt-usage-english.org/sdc2011/SDC-Q13-map-2.png
>
> which, on second thought, Totally Officially has at least one slight
> problem. Nonetheless it should give you a good general hint.
Well, obviously all the countries shown in green border the ones shown
in red. And most of the countries shown in red were once part of the
British Empire. But not all, as far as I know, and so also were a
bunch of others, including some of the ones shown in green.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "I wish to God these calculations had been
m...@vex.net | executed by steam!" -- Charles Babbage, 1821
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Snidely
> Hint: The T. O. map is coloured in green ink, not red, for a reason.
>
No stop signs?
/dps
msh210
> Well, obviously all the countries shown in green border the ones shown
> in red. And most of the countries shown in red were once part of the
> British Empire. But not all, as far as I know, and so also were a
> bunch of others, including some of the ones shown in green.
Dextrously reasoned.
Michael Hamm
TO Hinter
the Omrud
Ah.
The green countries are those in which traffic keeps to the right, but
which have a land border with a country where traffic keeps to the left
(the red countries), requiring some nifty traffic controls at the border.
--
David
Athel Cornish-Bowden
That makes a lot of sense, but what about Surinam: do they drive on the
left there? If not, shouldn't it be green, in which case Guyane should
not be, as it doesn't border on Guayana. Also, what about Gibraltar? Do
they drive on the left?
OK. Having written that I checked Wikipedia, which says that Surinam
drives on the left, and Gibraltar on the right, so that confirms your
hypothesis.
--
athel
James Hogg
> On 2011-08-25 10:04:35 +0200, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com> said:
>
>> On 25/08/2011 04:59, msh210 wrote:
>>> On Aug 23, Mark Brader, abed:
>>>>>> Here's a second T. O. map:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://alt-usage-english.org/sdc2011/SDC-Q13-map-2.png
>>>> <snip>
>>>> Well, obviously all the countries shown in green border the ones shown
>>>> in red. And most of the countries shown in red were once part of the
>>>> British Empire. But not all, as far as I know, and so also were a
>>>> bunch of others, including some of the ones shown in green.
>>>
>>> Dextrously reasoned.
>>
>> Ah.
>>
>> The green countries are those in which traffic keeps to the right, but
>> which have a land border with a country where traffic keeps to the
>> left (the red countries), requiring some nifty traffic controls at the
>> border.
>
> That makes a lot of sense, but what about Surinam: do they drive on the
> left there? If not, shouldn't it be green, in which case Guyane should
> not be, as it doesn't border on Guayana. Also, what about Gibraltar? Do
> they drive on the left?
I was trying to recall whether I had to change sides when I drove there
ten years ago, but now I remember that we parked on the Spanish side and
walked over.
Wiki says: "Unlike in other British territories, traffic drives on the
right, as the territory shares a land border with Spain."
--
James
LFS
I found it a bit disconcerting when we were there recently, as the main
streets in La Linea seem so aggressively English. (There must be nice
parts of Gibraltar but we didn't see any in our brief visit.)
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Vinny Burgoo
Thank you!
Mark Brader
> Ah.
>
> The green countries
*Places*.
> are those in which traffic keeps to the right, but
> which have a land border with a country where traffic keeps to the left
> (the red countries), requiring some nifty traffic controls at the border.
Aaarghh! And green and red as in navigation lights, of course.
Who knew there were still left-hand-driving places in the Americas?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Information! ... We want information!"
m...@vex.net -- The Prisoner
Vinny Burgoo
>"David":
>> Ah.
>>
>> The green countries
>
>*Places*.
The bloody French ruin everything.
>> are those in which traffic keeps to the right, but
>> which have a land border with a country where traffic keeps to the left
>> (the red countries), requiring some nifty traffic controls at the border.
>
>Aaarghh! And green and red as in navigation lights, of course.
>Who knew there were still left-hand-driving places in the Americas?
*Mainland Americas*.
--
VB
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Another thought. Shouldn't Djibouti be on the list, as it has a border
with Somaliland (not a recognized country, admittedly, but it's a lot
more organized than the country it's supposedly part of, and they drive
on the left: see http://www.i18nguy.com/driver-side.html)?
I wondered about American Samoa, but that doesn't appear to have a land
border with Samoa.
--
athel
msh210
> > The green countries are those in which traffic keeps to the right, but
> > which have a land border with a country where traffic keeps to the left
> > (the red countries), requiring some nifty traffic controls at the
> > border.
>
> Another thought. Shouldn't Djibouti be on the list, as it has a border
> with Somaliland (not a recognized country, admittedly, but it's a lot
> more organized than the country it's supposedly part of, and they drive
> on the left: see http://www.i18nguy.com/driver-side.html )?
English Wikipedia, OTOH, claims Somaliland drives on the right. I
don't know which Web site is factually correct (though their driving
on the right seems more likely to me, since Somalia drives on the
right), but I know which is Totally Officially correct. :-)
Michael Hamm
TO Panelist
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> "David":
>> Ah.
>>
>> The green countries
>
> *Places*.
>
>> are those in which traffic keeps to the right, but
>> which have a land border with a country where traffic keeps to the left
>> (the red countries), requiring some nifty traffic controls at the border.
>
> Aaarghh! And green and red as in navigation lights, of course.
> Who knew there were still left-hand-driving places in the Americas?
Well I did, for one! But seriously, there are many (I count 18), though
most of them don't have borders with countries that follow the
Robespierre-Hitler convention. If you count drivers, of course, there
are lots more who drive on the right, but if you count territories,
more than a third drive on the left, including the US Virgin Islands.
--
athel
Vinny Burgoo
I don't think we need to play the Panel's TO Joker card. We can play
Somaliland's instead.
A lot of online sources do say that driving is on the left in Somaliland
(and some sources written by people who might have been there say that,
in the capital, it's on the right, left and in the middle) but more
formal sources (dead-tree travel directories and a possibly govt-backed
company promoting tourism) say that it's on the right.
See, for example:
http://visitsomaliland.com/somaliland_travel2.html
Driving in Somaliland is relatively simple. You drive on the
right-hand side.
That may well be a mendacious attempt to counter Somaliland's reputation
of having chaotic and dangerous roads but it's pretty damned close to
being official. (Can something be authoritative without being true, in
English usage?)
Incidentally, a couple of sources say that most cars in Somaliland are
RHD because they are bought secondhand from Dubai. Why would Dubai have
a lot of RHD cars?
--
VB
T. O. Driving Correspondent
Next week: Puntland
Mark Brader
>
> *Mainland Americas*.
The actual Americas, as opposed to a bunch of islands.
--
Mark Brader | "I had never thought of Jesus as being
m...@vex.net | a variety of grape plant, but
Toronto | if you put it that way..." --Jan Sand
Jerry Friedman
I wonder what those look like. You may not need anything at the
Afghan-PRC border, but at Macao-PRC I imagine it's a serious concern.
The appropriate switcheroo must be built into the Chunnel, right?
--
Jerry Friedman
Mark Brader
>> The green countries are those in which traffic keeps to the right, but
>> which have a land border with a country where traffic keeps to the left
>> (the red countries), requiring some nifty traffic controls at the border.
Jerry Friedman:
> The appropriate switcheroo must be built into the Chunnel, right?
In effect. When you drive onto or off the train, you're on a one-way,
one-lane ramp.
--
Mark Brader | Peter Neumann on Y2K:
Toronto | This problem gives new meaning to "going out on
m...@vex.net | a date" (which many systems will do on 1/1/00).
the Omrud
I crossed that border in 1981 - I don't recall the road layout being a
problem, although I wasn't driving. Now I think about it, we had to get
out and walk through customs to ensure that we registered all our
decadent Western cameras so that we could not flog them to the locals in
exchange for worthless currency which depicted happy peasants driving
tractors. I smuggled a couple of notes out - I still have them.
> The appropriate switcheroo must be built into the Chunnel, right?
Ah, if only we were allowed to drive beneath the Channel. Nope, it's
trains only - if you wish to take your car, you have to drive your car
onto the train, single file.
There is a roadway between the two tunnels, but it's only for
maintenance and rescue vehicles. And rabid foxes, if you read certain
organs of the British press.
--
David
Evan Kirshenbaum
>>> Who knew there were still left-hand-driving places in the Americas?
>>
>> *Mainland Americas*.
>
> The actual Americas, as opposed to a bunch of islands.
It's all a matter of sea level. Looking at some of the maps that let
you play with sea level, Denmark becomes "a bunch of islands" at about
20 meters up, as does Nova Scotia, and everything in San Diego west of
the airport becomes an island at about 5 or 6 meters. At 60 meters,
Gainesville, Florida is on a largish Caribbean island, with everything
south of it either underwater or on much smaller islands. (Orlando's
gone. Lakeland's still there.) Freetown, Sierra Leone looks to be as
far from mainland Africa as Cuba (which becomes three large islands
and a bunch of smaller ones) is from Florida today.
Going the other way, at 10 meteres, the UK isn't an island and you can
walk from Jakarta, accross Sumatra, to Kuala Lampur. At 30 meters,
New Guinea is part of Australia.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |Yesterday I washed a single sock.
SF Bay Area (1982-) |When I opened the door, the machine
Chicago (1964-1982) |was empty.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> In alt.usage.english, msh210 wrote:
>> On Aug 25, Athel Cornish-Bowden abed:
>>>> The green countries are those in which traffic keeps to the right, but
>>>> which have a land border with a country where traffic keeps to the left
>>>> (the red countries), requiring some nifty traffic controls at the
>>>> border.
>>>
>>> Another thought. Shouldn't Djibouti be on the list, as it has a border
>>> with Somaliland (not a recognized country, admittedly, but it's a lot
>>> more organized than the country it's supposedly part of, and they drive
>>> on the left: see http://www.i18nguy.com/driver-side.html )?
>>
>> English Wikipedia, OTOH, claims Somaliland drives on the right. I
>> don't know which Web site is factually correct (though their driving
>> on the right seems more likely to me, since Somalia drives on the
>> right), but I know which is Totally Officially correct. :-)
>
> I don't think we need to play the Panel's TO Joker card. We can play
> Somaliland's instead.
>
> A lot of online sources do say that driving is on the left in Somaliland
> (and some sources written by people who might have been there say that,
> in the capital, it's on the right, left and in the middle) but more
> formal sources (dead-tree travel directories and a possibly govt-backed
I'm not sure they have much in the way of a govt.
> company promoting tourism) say that it's on the right.
>
> See, for example:
>
> http://visitsomaliland.com/somaliland_travel2.html
>
> Driving in Somaliland is relatively simple. You drive on the
> right-hand side.
>
> That may well be a mendacious attempt to counter Somaliland's reputation
> of having chaotic and dangerous roads but it's pretty damned close to
> being official. (Can something be authoritative without being true, in
> English usage?)
>
> Incidentally, a couple of sources say that most cars in Somaliland are
> RHD because they are bought secondhand from Dubai. Why would Dubai have
> a lot of RHD cars?
--
athel
Jerry Friedman
Here's what it looks like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Bridge
> > The appropriate switcheroo must be built into the Chunnel, right?
>
> Ah, if only we were allowed to drive beneath the Channel. Nope, it's
> trains only - if you wish to take your car, you have to drive your car
> onto the train, single file.
I should have known that. Thanks to you and Mark.
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
After a slight delay for the change from being driven on the right
side of the road to the wrong^W left side, your Cormo has arrived.
--
Jerry Friedman, T. O. Sheepdrover