More Toon Ages
Paul Hendry
I just spotted a possible reference to the age of Montana Max in the short
"Sleight of Hare", where he celebrates his birthday with all his rent-a-friends.
The cake that Buster baked for Monty had 14 candles left standing in the air
after it exploded. So Monty was 14 on Oct. 11, 1990. 15, if you count the
stick of dynamite. Also, that short is the first one where Buster's gloves
move on their own after he takes his hands out.
I'm just trying to sort the TTA universe out. I don't know why.
OK, this is the big moment! Is there a .sig this time? (or will Dizzy eat it?)
--
\ -Paul Hendrymeisteroruskie-orama Test sig file #1- /
>-These are my opinions, and you can't have them. -<
/ - " " - Calamity - \
Beecuz Ie dydint no howe two spel .signichur eye nevur hadd wun wurck B4!
John M. Turner
but they do list some ot the toons ages.
(as listed on the cards)
Buster: 14
Babs: 14
Plucky: 14
Hamton: 14
Dizzy: 12
Max: 14
Fifi: 13
Elmyra: 13
Sweetie: 3 1/2
Furrball: "Kitten-Like"
Gogo: 17 lbs 4 oz
Calamity: 10
Little Beeper: 10
Shirley: 13 (not counting past lives)
Anyway, just my two cents worth.
Stay Tiny-Tooned!
John "J.T." Turner
--
jtu...@lonestar.utsa.edu (John M. Turner)
Gogo: Lame puns are, pound for pound, your best entertainment value.
--
Paul Hendry
>I don't know how "canon" (or even realistic) the Topps collector cards are,
>but they do list some ot the toons ages.
>(as listed on the cards)
>Buster: 14 >Babs: 14
>Plucky: 14 >Hamton: 14
>Dizzy: 12 >Max: 14
>Fifi: 13 >Elmyra: 13
>Sweetie: 3 1/2
>Furrball: "Kitten-Like"
>Gogo: 17 lbs 4 oz
>Calamity: 10
>Little Beeper: 10
>Shirley: 13 (not counting past lives)
>Anyway, just my two cents worth.
Thanks, VERY much, for posting this!
At first this might seem to be just what I was looking for, but upon
more careful examination:
Hamton was 13 in the second season, while Babs was 14 in the first.
So they could never be 14 at the same time, so I guess this list isn't
very accurate, but it gives one a place to start for some of the characters
who's ages were never stated.
gotta change my sig
Paul Hendry
Hmmm, well anyway, I was just going through my tape collection a bit, and
I came up with some more constraints on the ages of some more of the Tiny Toons.
In article <1993Mar19....@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> jtu...@lonestar.utsa.edu (John M. Turner) writes:
>I don't know how "canon" (or even realistic) the Topps collector cards are,
>but they do list some ot the toons ages.
> [list reduced for brevity]
>Furrball: "Kitten-Like"
>Calamity: 10
>Little Beeper: 10
Nov. 7, 1990, episode "Psychic Fun-Omenon Day", short: "Class Cut Up"
In Foghorn Leghorn's biology class were seated (from the back of the room to
the front):
Buster, Hamton, Concord, Furrball, Babs, Plucky, Calamity, and Shirley.
On the sides of the boxes with the Acme Dead Frogs in them was written:
"FOR AGES 12 AND UP". Now this might be stretching things a little, but
I guess this means that the eight students are all at least 12 years old,
including Calamity, Furrball, and Concord? Now Calamity, being a genius,
may well have skipped a couple of grades, even *I* managed to do that!
(modesty heaped on REAL thick here, folks :-), but 10 years old seems to
be somewhat of an underestimate. Also note that Hamton was only 12 years
and 1 month old at the time.
Anyway, I really like that short. And yes, I did see "One Froggy Evening"
at least four times before.
"A Piece of Mind" is the short where we find out that Calamity and Little
Beeper are the same age to the day.
I've never cared about the ages of characters in movies or TV shows before.
Nothing else on TV has ever grabbed my attention so completely as TTA does.
--
-- \ - - / --
-- \- Paul Hendry -/ --
-- /- "There ain't no cure for the Elmer Fudd Bwoos." -\ --
-- / - - Babs - \ --
Stephen Wayne Miller
In <1993Mar19....@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> jtu...@lonestar.utsa.edu (John M. Turner) writes:
>Sweetie: 3 1/2
Huh?? You sure that didn't say Sneezer?
>Furrball: "Kitten-Like"
Hmm . . . adjectives in an integer variable? Cripes!
>Gogo: 17 lbs 4 oz
Ok, that makes sense.
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| Joy joy!" --R & S | --Late Night with David Letterman
Stephen Wayne Miller
>Oh, no! Not ANOTHER article on ages of toons ... make it stop! MAKE IT STOP!
It's funny which particular trivial aspect of a given show gets discussed
in its corresponding newsgroup. Here, we have the ages of the characters.
alt.tv.simpsons has the location of Springfield and whether there really is
such a thing as a reference (sheesh), alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy has the
list-o-farts. To use a favorite Simpsons quote: "Yeah, well, what're ya
gonna do."
John Palmer
"I don't know how "canon" (or even realistic) the Topps collector cards are,
"but they do list some ot the toons ages.
"(as listed on the cards)
"Buster: 14
"Babs: 14
I remember Babs saying that she was 14 in the pilot episode, and that was
in mid 1990. Add 3 years and that makes her (and buster) 16-17.
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Robert A. Jung
>In article <1993Mar19....@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> jtu...@lonestar.utsa.edu (John M. Turner) writes:
>>I don't know how "canon" (or even realistic) the Topps collector cards are,
Should be incredibly canon, actually; Topps gets their data from Warner
Animation directly, I'm sure (what, you think WB will let a card-maker free
rein to write stuff about their characters?).
>>but they do list some ot the toons ages.
>>(as listed on the cards)
>>Buster: 14
>>Babs: 14
>
>I remember Babs saying that she was 14 in the pilot episode, and that was
>in mid 1990. Add 3 years and that makes her (and buster) 16-17.
Way I see it, Charlie Brown hasn't aged, Mickey Mouse isn't wobbling with a
cane, and I still don't know how Pebbles & Bam-Bam grew up while Fred and
Barney stayed the same. Bottom line, Buster & Babs & the other toonsters
probably haven't aged one whit, at least not from Warners' point of view.
Which is just fine by me. B-)
--R.J.
B-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Babs (as Fifi): "Le sigh. My boyfriends have stood me up more times than zee
French National Anthem."
~~~~~~~~~~~ These opinions are all mine, but you're welcome to 'em. ~~~~~~~~~~
Stay Tiny Tooned! Send assorted silliness to rj...@netcom.com
John M. Turner
>In article <1993Mar20.09...@tygra.Michigan.COM> j...@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer) writes:
>>In article <1993Mar19....@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> jtu...@lonestar.utsa.edu (John M. Turner) writes:
>>>I don't know how "canon" (or even realistic) the Topps collector cards are,
>
> Should be incredibly canon, actually; Topps gets their data from Warner
>Animation directly, I'm sure (what, you think WB will let a card-maker free
>rein to write stuff about their characters?).
their stuff directly from Warner Bros (since the cards mostly display
scenes from the actual episodes (almost all from "Citizen Max"),
which are copyrighted by WB.
As far as any other accuracy arguments go, I just put down what was
written on the cards. If anyone wants to argue about accuracy, the cards
are trademarked 1991.
Stay Tiny Tooned!
John "J.T." Turner
--
Paul Hendry
that one is necessary now, because we seem to be losing touch with
what actually happened in TTA.
In article <1993Mar20.1...@netcom.com> rj...@netcom.com (Robert A. Jung) writes:
>In article <1993Mar20.09...@tygra.Michigan.COM> j...@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer) writes:
>>In article <1993Mar19....@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> jtu...@lonestar.utsa.edu (John M. Turner) writes:
>>>I don't know how "canon" (or even realistic) the Topps collector cards are,
> Should be incredibly canon, actually; Topps gets their data from Warner
>Animation directly, I'm sure (what, you think WB will let a card-maker free
>rein to write stuff about their characters?).
WB most assuredly had to approve the cards before they could be sold, but that
does not make the information canon unless that information appears someday
in an actual episode. A similar situation exists with the Star Trek novels
and Paramount. Paramount must approve each novel before it can be published,
but the information is not considered canon unless or until it actually
appears in a TV episode or movie.
Now as to the question about whether the ages are even realistic, I think it
is clear that Hamton was 13 (not 14) years old for his 1991 birthday (whenever
that actually was, since Hamton said it wasn't really his birthday at the time).
This is a minor nitpick, however, as the error is only of 1 year, nevertheless
it shows that the info cannot be trusted to the letter. Perhaps, errors of
2 years are also possible. I don't think that anyone from WB sat down with
anyone from Topps and told them, letter by letter, line by line. what they
HAD to put on the cards. I don't think that WB would refuse Topps from selling
the cards if they did find minor errors. I think that the data is
partially made up by Topps, and only some of it was decreed by Warner.
The problem is knowing which info came from where.
>>I remember Babs saying that she was 14 in the pilot episode, and that was
>>in mid 1990. Add 3 years and that makes her (and buster) 16-17.
> Way I see it, Charlie Brown hasn't aged, Mickey Mouse isn't wobbling with a
>cane, and I still don't know how Pebbles & Bam-Bam grew up while Fred and
>Barney stayed the same. Bottom line, Buster & Babs & the other toonsters
>probably haven't aged one whit, at least not from Warners' point of view.
Honey looked pretty darn wobbly and with a cane, for a while at least.
And when was the last time that you have seen a NEW Mickey Mouse cartoon? :-)
Anyway, there is a lot in the actual TTA series which shows that the Tiny Toons
characters are, indeed, getting older. Hamton has celebrated two birthdays
already. Explain that one if you think that he doesn't age! Monty celebrated
a birthday too. The fact that any of them have celebrated any birthdays at
all is proof that they are getting older, chronologically anyway. There are
some references to the chronological age of Bugs, which are also a dead
giveaway that the toons' chronological ages do increase to us as well
as to them.
Chronological age is one thing, but what about physical age? Have any of the
Tiny Toons changed in physical appearance from the first season to the last?
Yes, definitely! The size of Babs' cleavage has generally gotten larger from
one season to the next. True, it has varied from one episode to the next,
depending on who was doing the animation. And it has even varied from one
moment to the next, depending on what role she was playing at the time,
but the general trend has been one of increase. In at least one first season
episode, (I forget which) we see Babs in a bathing suit and she is flat as a
board. In HISMV, we again see her in a bathing suit, and while not spectacularly
endowed, she was not flat either. By the third season, Babs was actually
wearing an additional piece of clothing ( a sort of a bra) in at least
two of the episodes that I can remember right away, 13something, and
the Christmas Special. There were some episodes in the 3rd season where
Babs shows up as flat or nearly so, but that, as I have said, seems to
depend on who was doing the animation. Wang Film Productions tended
towards a flat chested Babs. (and more chubby, with thicker arms and legs)
What about mental age? Have any of the attitudes of any of the Tiny Toons
towards each other matured from the first to the 3rd season? Again the answer
is yes. Buster's reaction to finding out that his co-host was going to be a
girl in "The Looney Beginning" was actually one of of near indignation.
And his reaction to being kissed by Babs, and to women in general, in the
first season was one of "Oooo, eee, aaaa! Ooo, eee!" while going through
dorky spasms or saying "dah, dah, dah, dah...". In HISMV, the most intimate
thing that Buster is able to say is "Shh, I feel the same way.", which is
significantly more than he was able to before. He also says something
complimentary to Babs later, but follows that up with his water pistol.
In the third season, such as in 13something and in the Christmas special,
he was finally up to initiating a kiss with Babs, although it WAS on Cher's
recommendation that he do so in the later case.
Now, come on!!! If you did not understand that Buster's attitude towards
Babs was developing throughout the series then: "You are so ... alert!" :-)
This is a prime example of character development in TTA. When character
development occurs, the character is permanantly changed. This is not the
sort of thing that can ever happen with characters who are ageless and
timeless. Just to name one more instance of character development (as if the
one discussed in the previous paragraph wasn't enough) I'm sure that everyone
noticed that Buster learned to dance in the 3rd season, something which
he couldn't do before. Well, that is not too good an example of character
development, and maybe there are not that many examples, but there are some
important ones and that is my point. Some other readers may have some other
examples which they wish to share?
So, there has been all three types of growth occuring for characters in TTA,
chronological, physical, and mental aging, growth, and maturation. I can't
believe why anyone would think that the Tiny Toons weren't getting older.
Perhaps it is because the episodes are not shown in anything like
chronological order now that it is all reruns.
In the past, and in this posting, I have stated many reasons for believing
that the Tiny Toons do get older, citing all my information from the actual
episodes themselves. And I see that I am not the only one with these opinions
on this matter. However, all those who have opposed this position have
merely stated that they don't believe that the Tiny Toons age, and have not
presented anything from TTA that supports such a view. I ask that if they
wish to adhere to such a belief, that they present some better arguments
using info from the episodes of Tiny Toon Adventures only, and not from
"The Flintstones" or Disney because not all cartoons are alike!
And thank goodness for that, too!!!
>Bottom line, Buster & Babs & the other toonsters
>probably haven't aged one whit, at least not from Warners' point of view.
If you have proof, I'm dying to hear it...
> Which is just fine by me. B-)
Personally, I now prefer to think of the Tiny Toons as not aging at all (or
at least not more than 1 or 2 years) while no new episodes are being planned.
That way, they can pick up where they left off when/if they resume producing
TTA. But that is just my opinion, however it doesn't make sense to miss a lot
of good material with the toons at the ages that they would have been over
the next few years.
"Reality is for people who lack imagination." - Karl Meyers
Ummm, ...?
--
-- \ - Happiness is ... owning two VCRs! - / --
T. Erik Browne
>This has turned out to be a long posting, an essay almost, but I think
>that one is necessary now, because we seem to be losing touch with
>what actually happened in TTA.
>
>Chronological age is one thing, but what about physical age? Have any of the
>Tiny Toons changed in physical appearance from the first season to the last?
>Yes, definitely! The size of Babs' cleavage has generally gotten larger from
>one season to the next. True, it has varied from one episode to the next,
>depending on who was doing the animation. And it has even varied from one
>moment to the next, depending on what role she was playing at the time,
>but the general trend has been one of increase. In at least one first season
>episode, (I forget which) we see Babs in a bathing suit and she is flat as a
>board. In HISMV, we again see her in a bathing suit, and while not spectacularly
>endowed, she was not flat either. By the third season, Babs was actually
>wearing an additional piece of clothing ( a sort of a bra) in at least
>two of the episodes that I can remember right away, 13something, and
>the Christmas Special. There were some episodes in the 3rd season where
>Babs shows up as flat or nearly so, but that, as I have said, seems to
>depend on who was doing the animation. Wang Film Productions tended
>towards a flat chested Babs. (and more chubby, with thicker arms and legs)
Okay, here's one problem. Both 13something and the Christmas Special were
done by StarToons. StarToons has always drawn Babs with an extra shirt
under the usual blouse, and generally with a slightly larger chest. Check
out the Henny Youngman episode, and any Kennedy where it was farmed out to
StarToons (VGR knows more about this than me, he could tell you more).
Also, the exact opposite was often seen in Akom and Wang episodes. Babs was
flat as a board in "Bunny Daze" from _Rainy Daze_, as well as in "Buster's
Guide to Part Time Jobs" from _Career Opportunities_. We also saw her bare,
flat chest in _Prom-ise Her Anything_, another Wang cartoon. I don't
remeber how she looked in some of Wang's third season episodes (someone with
these on tape want to check?), but I don't think she had much of a chest in
them. So the larger chest is mostly a function of animation studio.
I will go along with your character growth ideas. The main characters have
definitely grown and changed. But this is a more emotional and mental
growth. And they can still act like young, irresponsible teenagers. And
this, I think, is an important part of the show. The fact that the
characters are mostly in their early teens is central to the flavor of the
show. If the characters actually aged into older teenagers, and then even
into adulthood, the show wouldn't be the same, the characters wouldn't be the
same. So this is why the characters will never really physically age. If
they "grew up", they wouldn't be the characters that they were meant to be.
One more point about the character's "ages": Bugs is 53 years old, because
he first appeared in a cartoon 53 years ago. Therefore, the Tiny Toons are
2 1/2 years old, since they first appeared in September of '90. Their
"ages", which we have been arguing over for some time, are just artifices of
the writers, and are set in the low teens because that is the age the
characters act. This isn't reality, or even pseudo-reality like Star Trek,
where the future history is plausible and coherent. This is the toon world,
where toons can stay the same age forever. And I think that is a pretty
good thing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T. Erik Browne | Harvey Mudd College
tbr...@hmcvax.claremont.edu | Claremont, CA 91711
tbr...@jarthur.claremont.edu | Best college west of Upland
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry. No .sig today.
Paul Hendry
out of this toon age discussion with the following:
In article <C49Av...@news.claremont.edu> tbr...@jarthur.claremont.edu (T. Erik Browne) writes:
>
>Okay, here's one problem. Both 13something and the Christmas Special were
>done by StarToons. StarToons has always drawn Babs with an extra shirt
>under the usual blouse, and generally with a slightly larger chest. Check
>out the Henny Youngman episode, and any Kennedy where it was farmed out to
>StarToons (VGR knows more about this than me, he could tell you more).
>Also, the exact opposite was often seen in Akom and Wang episodes. Babs was
>flat as a board in "Bunny Daze" from _Rainy Daze_, as well as in "Buster's
>Guide to Part Time Jobs" from _Career Opportunities_. We also saw her bare,
>flat chest in _Prom-ise Her Anything_, another Wang cartoon. I don't
>remeber how she looked in some of Wang's third season episodes (someone with
>these on tape want to check?), but I don't think she had much of a chest in
>them. So the larger chest is mostly a function of animation studio.
I guess everyone has certain episodes that stand out in their mind.
With the amount of variability between animation studios, it is no
wonder that different people can watch the same series and come up
with examples to support any number of different hypotheses.
One of these weeks I'm going to sit down and watch every single episode
in chronological order of original airdate. I'll take notes, and maybe draw
a graph of the size of Babs' breasts as a function of time. :-)
Then maybe I'll have a more objective view on these things.
>... The fact that the
>characters are mostly in their early teens is central to the flavor of the
>show. If the characters actually aged into older teenagers, and then even
>into adulthood, the show wouldn't be the same, the characters wouldn't be the
>same. So this is why the characters will never really physically age. If
>they "grew up", they wouldn't be the characters that they were meant to be.
Total (or near-total anyways) agreement here. However, I don't see how the
writers could come up with enough story ideas to make the series continue
long enough for the characters to have time to grow into adults. But I
would certainly like to see them try to come up with 4 or 5 more 65 episode
seasons or so!
You only act as old or as irresponsible as you feel. Some 14 year olds
are already married, have kids, and certainly consider themselves to be adults.
Anyways, if Babs and Buster grow up, there's always:
MORTIMER!
Or they could even do:
More Baby Plucky Shorts!
{:-)} {:-)} <- cute, furry, smiley face-heads!
--
-- \ - Happiness is ... owning two VCRs! - / --
-- \- Paul Hendry -/ --
-- /- "There ain't no cure for the Elmer Fudd Bwooze." -\ --
VGR (Craig Pell)
>done by StarToons. StarToons has always drawn Babs with an extra shirt
>under the usual blouse, and generally with a slightly larger chest. Check
>out the Henny Youngman episode, and any Kennedy where it was farmed out to
>StarToons (VGR knows more about this than me, he could tell you more).
>Also, the exact opposite was often seen in Akom and Wang episodes. Babs was
>flat as a board in "Bunny Daze" from _Rainy Daze_, as well as in "Buster's
>Guide to Part Time Jobs" from _Career Opportunities_. We also saw her bare,
>flat chest in _Prom-ise Her Anything_, another Wang cartoon. I don't
>remeber how she looked in some of Wang's third season episodes (someone with
>these on tape want to check?), but I don't think she had much of a chest in
>them. So the larger chest is mostly a function of animation studio.
Awww, gawrsh. :-) Well, okay. Yeah, Startoons has been giving some
different proportions to Babs (et al.). I don't have the guide with me,
but I'm willing to bet that "You Asked For It" is an early episode, considering
"You Asked For It Again" occurred in the same season. Both of these have
their introductory segments done by StarToons. Watch Babs closely. (Like
you wouldn't anyway. :-) )
(Note the TRIMMED QUOTED ARTICLE, everyone!)
--
| $000C35FA <>-----=------------------------=----=----<>
VGR | (1812 Overture) | "The size of the brain is no measure of |
| I GIVE UP | its capacity." - Mr. Jonathan Frisby |
| YOU MUST BE A VIDEO WHIZ <>-----=---------=------------------------<>
Doug Nashold
David Guntner
writes:
(I just love people who only type on one line so I have to fix it when
I quote them....)
> Please, whoever is actually discussing the chest of a cartoon rabbit....
>.......GET A LIFE, A GIRLFRIEND, OR A MAGAZINE IN A BROWN PAPER
> BAG!!!!!!!!!!
This person obviously has the wrong sense of priorities in life.... :-)
--Dave
--
David Guntner INET: dav...@pain.la.ca.us
"I'm tiny, not toony, I am a human goony...." - Babs Bunny
Stephen Wayne Miller
> Please, whoever is actually discussing the chest of a cartoon rabbit...........GET A LIFE, A GIRLFRIEND, OR A MAGAZINE IN A BROWN PAPER BAG!!!!!!!!!!!!
1) Bite me.
2) Oh, I'm sorry, you're too COOL for us. Therefore, get out of here.
3) Learn where the RETURN key is on your keyboard, ok?