Bad Voyager Plots
Bozo the Proctologist
>I've read some of the post about the bad plots on Voyager and have
>finally decided to post a response...
>
>It's not that the plots are necessarily bad. They're just tired. I
>mean, seriously, we've covered the same ground SO many times...how many
>times can we see a character explore his/her humanity (Spock, Data,
>Bashir, Seven)?
Except "Survival Instinct" was one of the best this season.
>Or experience an alternate reality of the world and/or
>life?
Except "Parallels" is still one of the few high points in TNG's Seventh
Season..... and "Inner Light" was THE best TNG ep......
>Or explore Klingon culture?
Okay, yeah, that one HAS been done to death. <G>
>Or send someone back in time?
"Timeless" is the best Vger ep yet.
>Or
>discuss the "enlightenment of humanity"?
I'm not sure what you meant here. Yes, the long-winded speeches about
how Good and Pure the Federation is have become virtually self-parodying.
The struggle to balance *enlightenment* against the needs of the real
world makes for much better stories, like DS9's "In the Pale Moonlight."
>It's time to expand the Star Trek Universe. How about a ship where
>humans are in the minority? Or perhaps Voyager could introduce a few
>Romulans who were stranded in the Delta Quadrant and we could explore
>that culture (and, perhaps the intriguing Romulan/Vulcan ancestry).
>Even an further exploration of Cardassian culture would be an
>improvement.
Well, "Voyager" was an attempt to expand the Trek universe, but in the
hands of the same old writers we've gotten the same old stories. While
many situations have been tossed around here, like your ideas of adding
Romulans or Cardassians, we've seen what the staff writers can do with
'new situations' like a starship stranded away from the Federation and
Starfleet support. Aside from the occasional references to the Delta
Quadrant or getting home, most "Voyager" eps could well have been done
for TOS or TNG.
The root of a story is some sort of conflict(s); how our hero overcomes
it and/or what he learns (or fails to learn) in the process. There are
basically four kinds of conflict: Man vs. man (or Klingon or Vidiian or
Q), man vs. society (the *expected* codes of behavior, customs and
morals), man vs. himself (some internal weakness or other Achilles Heel),
or man vs. nature (the elements, natural phenomena, nonsentient animals,
and so forth). While a story tends to focus on one particular, central
conflict, there can be more than one in a story.
So you think up something like Voyager meets some Romulans stranded in
the DQ, or some treknobabble takes down the command staff and Seven
assumes command. These are situations, not stories. One might well
write a good story based on something like that, but I'd be surprised if
TPTB do. The actual STORY would lie in the conflict, and how it's
resolved.
That's where too many latter-day Trek eps (and this is NOT purely a
"Voyager" problem) fail: Our heroes are in the depths of a crisis,
running around for forty-five minutes like Boralean chickens with their
central heads cut off- then in the end, they merely stand around the warp
core trading treknobabble back and forth, do some way kewl digital
effects with the main deflector dish, and suddenly everything is not only
hunky, but downright dory as well.
Contrast that with "Survival Instinct," where our heroes CAN'T talk their
way out of the conflict by simply inventing a new way to remodulate
polarized chronotons. Seven has to make a decision- a very hard
decision. She gets advice from the crew, she's torn by the guilt she
feels..... but in the end, the conflict has to be resolved by what she
decides to do. THAT is a story.
>I wrote it before and I'll write it again...we need some REAL tension
>between these characters...not a group of happy-go-lucky scientists off
>exploring the universe (a certain amount of exploration, sure...but
>EVERY FREAKING EPISODE--after awhile, you'd think the crew would realize
>that it's this "scientific curiosity" that gets them into trouble every
>day!
LOLOL!
Seriously, I've in read several sources that Roddenberry didn't want
conflict between the TNG crew- which was why they seemed so bland the
first couple of years. Tension and conflict between your characters is
what stories are made of. "Voyager" started off with the great idea of
mixing two dissimilar crews, Starfleet and Maquis, but then ironed out
the tensions so quickly and thoroughly that viewers who haven't watched
from the beginning wonder why Chakotay and B'Elanna wear different rank
pins.
He-Who-Hopes-The-Next-Series-Will-Use-Different-Writers
If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot 'em?
jewahe
>
> Except "Survival Instinct" was one of the best this season.
> Except "Parallels" is still one of the few high points in TNG's
Seventh
> Season..... and "Inner Light" was THE best TNG ep......
>
I agree, there is still things that can be done with this theme, but
there has been WAY too much of it (almost every episode recently has
left Seven in some kind of crises). BTW, I thought that "drone" was a
great episode, really showcasing Seven's desire for someone to connect
with on a more personal level...that old maternal instinct really woke
up in her!
>> "Timeless" is the best Vger ep yet.
Again, the theme of time travel has been done to death...I'm not asking
that they don't use the themes, just less of them.
> I'm not sure what you meant here. Yes, the long-winded speeches about
> how Good and Pure the Federation is have become virtually
self-parodying.
> The struggle to balance *enlightenment* against the needs of the real
> world makes for much better stories, like DS9's "In the Pale
Moonlight."
>
I agree...and that can be explored more. VOY did some of it in the
early episodes, but then every began getting along so well that suddenly
there was no more need for them to explore this issue...let's see those
good ol' StarFleet values get knocked about!
> The root of a story is some sort of conflict(s); how our hero
overcomes
> it and/or what he learns (or fails to learn) in the process. There
are
> basically four kinds of conflict: Man vs. man (or Klingon or Vidiian
or
> Q), man vs. society (the *expected* codes of behavior, customs and
> morals), man vs. himself (some internal weakness or other Achilles
Heel),
> or man vs. nature (the elements, natural phenomena, nonsentient
animals,
> and so forth). While a story tends to focus on one particular,
central
> conflict, there can be more than one in a story.
>
(someone's been studying just a bit too much literature). Yes, and the
eternal cry of post-modernist society is that 'there's nothing new under
the sun." The trick to good writing is to give these conflicts a
different spin.
> So you think up something like Voyager meets some Romulans stranded in
> the DQ, or some treknobabble takes down the command staff and Seven
> assumes command. These are situations, not stories. One might well
> write a good story based on something like that, but I'd be surprised
if
> TPTB do. The actual STORY would lie in the conflict, and how it's
> resolved.
>
> That's where too many latter-day Trek eps (and this is NOT purely a
> "Voyager" problem) fail: Our heroes are in the depths of a crisis,
> running around for forty-five minutes like Boralean chickens with
their
> central heads cut off- then in the end, they merely stand around the
warp
> core trading treknobabble back and forth, do some way kewl digital
> effects with the main deflector dish, and suddenly everything is not
only
> hunky, but downright dory as well.
>
> Contrast that with "Survival Instinct," where our heroes CAN'T talk
their
> way out of the conflict by simply inventing a new way to remodulate
> polarized chronotons. Seven has to make a decision- a very hard
> decision. She gets advice from the crew, she's torn by the guilt she
> feels..... but in the end, the conflict has to be resolved by what she
> decides to do. THAT is a story.
This is what I mean...everything is too neat...and we aren't left with
any depth of character or "new perspective." Just a wonderful example
of how technology saves our lives again.
>
> >I wrote it before and I'll write it again...we need some REAL tension
> >between these characters...not a group of happy-go-lucky scientists
off
> >exploring the universe (a certain amount of exploration, sure...but
> >EVERY FREAKING EPISODE--after awhile, you'd think the crew would
realize
> >that it's this "scientific curiosity" that gets them into trouble
every
> >day!
>
> LOLOL!
>
> Seriously, I've in read several sources that Roddenberry didn't want
> conflict between the TNG crew- which was why they seemed so bland the
> first couple of years. Tension and conflict between your characters
is
> what stories are made of. "Voyager" started off with the great idea
of
> mixing two dissimilar crews, Starfleet and Maquis, but then ironed out
> the tensions so quickly and
thoroughly that viewers who haven't
watched
> from the beginning wonder why Chakotay and B'Elanna wear different
rank
> pins.
Exactly...all the tension in this crew melted away under those wonderful
StarFleet protocols! Every now and then, such as when Seven went insane
and started seeing conspiracies everywhere, they flair, but those flair
ups are too rare!
>
> He-Who-Hopes-The-Next-Series-Will-Use-Different-Writers
>
Can I join that club?
> If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot 'em?
>
Give me a gun!
--
Jeff
Memphis, TN
"The worst is not/so long as we can say/'this is the worst.'" (King Lear
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bozo the Proctologist
Science Theater when Fox reruns "Degenerations" tonight......
Jeff doth write thus:
>Thanks for your input!
>
>>
>> Except "Survival Instinct" was one of the best this season.
>
>> Except "Parallels" is still one of the few high points in TNG's
>Seventh
>> Season..... and "Inner Light" was THE best TNG ep......
>>
>I agree, there is still things that can be done with this theme, but
>there has been WAY too much of it (almost every episode recently has
>left Seven in some kind of crises). BTW, I thought that "drone" was a
>great episode, really showcasing Seven's desire for someone to connect
>with on a more personal level...that old maternal instinct really woke
>up in her!
Agreed. Now if they could just develop more characters besides Seven and
the Doctor, they wouldn't have to hang every ep on them.
>>> "Timeless" is the best Vger ep yet.
>
>Again, the theme of time travel has been done to death...I'm not asking
>that they don't use the themes, just less of them.
The trick is to do DIFFERENT things with these themes. Almost every Trek
time-travel traipse into tedium is the same old "Oh my God! We've got to
be careful not to upset the time lines!!" Come on, the frigging time
lines are over ten billion years old, and they can damned well take care
of themselves!
"Timeless" had Our Heroes deliberately trying to improve on the local
past; something DIFFERENT from the usual time-travel ep.
>> I'm not sure what you meant here. Yes, the long-winded speeches about
>> how Good and Pure the Federation is have become virtually
>>self-parodying.
>> The struggle to balance *enlightenment* against the needs of the real
>> world makes for much better stories, like DS9's "In the Pale
>>Moonlight."
>>
>I agree...and that can be explored more. VOY did some of it in the
>early episodes, but then every began getting along so well that suddenly
>there was no more need for them to explore this issue...let's see those
>good ol' StarFleet values get knocked about!
Agreed; done right the inner conflicts are the best. What if they get
regular contacts with Starfleet, and Janeway gets word that her Maquis
crew, who've served her faithfully and well, are NOT going to be
reinstated?
<snip>
>> That's where too many latter-day Trek eps (and this is NOT purely a
>> "Voyager" problem) fail: Our heroes are in the depths of a crisis,
>> running around for forty-five minutes like Boralean chickens with
>their
>> central heads cut off- then in the end, they merely stand around the
>warp
>> core trading treknobabble back and forth, do some way kewl digital
>> effects with the main deflector dish, and suddenly everything is not
>only
>> hunky, but downright dory as well.
>>
>> Contrast that with "Survival Instinct," where our heroes CAN'T talk
>their
>> way out of the conflict by simply inventing a new way to remodulate
>> polarized chronotons. Seven has to make a decision- a very hard
>> decision. She gets advice from the crew, she's torn by the guilt she
>> feels..... but in the end, the conflict has to be resolved by what she
>> decides to do. THAT is a story.
>
>This is what I mean...everything is too neat...and we aren't left with
>any depth of character or "new perspective." Just a wonderful example
>of how technology saves our lives again.
Deus ex Treknobabble...... at least "Warp Core Maintenance For Dummies"
had those neat cartoons! <G>
>> He-Who-Hopes-The-Next-Series-Will-Use-Different-Writers
>>
>Can I join that club?
Sure; the more, the scarier.
>> If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot 'em?
>>
>Give me a gun!
Set your blind up near a jiffy store along the border, where they come to
buy lotto tickets. <VEG>
He-Who-Hopes-They'll-Do-Something-Surprising-With-The-Homecoming
It's a little-known fact that the Dark Ages were caused by the Y1K bug.
Falcon
evil thing might have been a bit over done, but a little bit of it might not
have gone astray in the actual show. I didn't see Season 6 by the way,
living in Ireland, so I can't judge any of those episodes. Commander
Chakotay looks like he has potential for an evil streak. Unfortunately they
corrupted the Maquis with "Starfleet values" too.
Bozo the Proctologist <cue...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:19991231.185933....@juno.com...