Could we please drop the genderfuck issue
cir...@maple.circa.ufl.edu
this genderfuck vs. genderf__k discussion is a matter of opinion,
like trying to convince someone that blue is a better color
than red. This is alt.transgendered, not alt.drag.dumb.issue.out.
Please- lets get back to exploring our feelings and helping
others- please. Thank you.
_____________________________________________________
| Sarah Mitchell - mail: CIR...@maple.ufl.edu |
| "If you see the wonder, of a fairy tale- |
| you can face the future, even if you fail" -ABBA |
-----------------------------------------------------
Roberta Steel
If you need help, just ask for it. People here are willing to help.
If you don't like the issues, just skip the posts.
Help is not all warm fuzzy touchie feely stuff. Sometimes a good argument
helps people to sort out their thoughts.
Just a thought of mine.
Roberta
Russ Williams
>If you don't like the issues, just skip the posts.
Good common sense advice indeed. Sarah, the genderfuck debate
may seem "dumb" to you, but obviously it means something to others.
I can't think of a better newsgroup for this discussion to have been on.
Accept that no newsgroup exists where every message is of interest
to you; complaining that you don't like a thread is not constructive.
You don't see nonTS people complaining about all the hormone threads,
for example.
>Help is not all warm fuzzy touchie feely stuff. Sometimes a good argument
>helps people to sort out their thoughts.
Right. It led to me getting some valuable feedback from Roberta & others
about their thoughts on genderfuck, the activity (as opposed to the
very different debate about the word). For me, that is an important
and risky topic, one which I've wondered about but never felt appropriate
raising until this semantical thread led to it.
Russ
Ed Matz
Russ Williams <ru...@cs.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
>Right. It led to me getting some valuable feedback from Roberta & others
>about their thoughts on genderfuck, the activity (as opposed to the
>very different debate about the word). For me, that is an important
>and risky topic, one which I've wondered about but never felt appropriate
>raising until this semantical thread led to it.
Agreed! And some of the issues are, IMHO, serious cultural issues than
DESPERATELY need to be discussed and hashed out. Is there a better
newsgroup for challenging our cultural notions about gender?
>
>Russ
--Ed Matz
Stephen M. Gardner
>Agreed! And some of the issues are, IMHO, serious cultural issues than
>DESPERATELY need to be discussed and hashed out.
here. This is a really good forum for examining the silliness
of gender roles.
> Is there a better
>newsgroup for challenging our cultural notions about gender?
Not that I know of.
smg
Denise Tree
Stephen M. Gardner <gar...@metronet.com> wrote:
+-----
|In article <CGx89...@world.std.com| em...@world.std.com (Ed Matz) writes:
| -> Agreed! And some of the issues are, IMHO, serious cultural issues than
| -> DESPERATELY need to be discussed and hashed out.
| Exactly! I couldn't agree more. I think we are making history
| here. This is a really good forum for examining the silliness
| of gender roles.
|
|
| -> Is there a better
| -> newsgroup for challenging our cultural notions about gender?
| Not that I know of.
+------
There was a newsgroup called soc.gender-issues at one time but it did
not propagate.
There has been some general discussion on alt.tg about gender and sex
... it really is the newsgroup where discussions of this subject will
probably be received openly. It seems unfortunate that often, the
members of one area of the sex/gender continuum display an alarming
intollerance/misunderstanding about adjacent groups who have, also, an
alternative sex/gender/sexuality mapping. It would be nice to have a
mailing list or newsgroup where discussions are not skewed toward one
point of view, ie. the MtF ts/tv view that prevails here.
I think it would be really nice to have discussions which were able to
include _all_ types of people, on the subject of sex and gender. In
reading netnews I am amazed at how segregated people are. Witness the
bisexual/homosexual flame wars which sometimes erupt and the near
total lack of discussion of intersex issues.
______________________________________________________________________
_______________ Kira D. Triea
________________________________tr...@cs.jhu.edu
_________________________________________.... . . . . . . .
.
.
*
Ailsa Murphy
>
>There has been some general discussion on alt.tg about gender and sex
>... it really is the newsgroup where discussions of this subject will
>probably be received openly. It seems unfortunate that often, the
>members of one area of the sex/gender continuum display an alarming
>intollerance/misunderstanding about adjacent groups who have, also, an
>alternative sex/gender/sexuality mapping. It would be nice to have a
>mailing list or newsgroup where discussions are not skewed toward one
>point of view, ie. the MtF ts/tv view that prevails here.
i dunno, i think a lot of times, joining a larger community means
going in with the understanding that you will have to deal mostly
with the boys and their issues. so, the gay community is very GWM
focused, and the gender community is very MtF focused. luckily for
me, i am quite comfortable in the company of boys, whether GWMs or
preops MtFs. were i less so, i'd be s.o.l. it's sad, as it's an
attitude like this that keeps dykes out of mixed queer organizations
and keeps FtMs out of the gender community.
i figured out a long time ago, though, that the only way to make more
dykes or more FtMs, or more female gamers, or whetever, stay in
mixed groups was for the few of us there WERE to doggedly hang on, and
sooner or later, others would turn up, and, seeing that there were
more of us, would give whatever group a chance.
but then, FtMs generally pass so well, blending into society without
a ripple is possible, so often times people don't feel like hanging
out in the gender community. me, i'm far more comfortable in the
world of genderfuck than in one of gender polarity, and may never
transition because of this.
there's so much more to gender than being born either male or female and
being surgically and hormonally altered to be either male or female.
some of us feel more like both, or neither, or some new creation of
our own. there's more to sexual orientation than gay and straight,
there's more to race than black and white, and there's more to
gender than male and female.
>
>I think it would be really nice to have discussions which were able to
>include _all_ types of people, on the subject of sex and gender. In
>reading netnews I am amazed at how segregated people are. Witness the
>bisexual/homosexual flame wars which sometimes erupt and the near
>total lack of discussion of intersex issues.
>
well, then let's HAVE one. the only way to have a discussion is to
DO so, not just sit and talk about the fact that we AREN'T.
so, has anyone read _stone butch blues_ or listened to leslie
feinberg speak in person? i met her once, in town for a queer
writing conference. it was funny, she & i were wearing the same
suit. different earrings, though *grin*
-ailsa
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- an...@ursa-major.spdcc.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Ailsa, you could be a show on Oprah all by yourself."
- Tom Farrell
Russ Williams
>In article <2cvhtq$2...@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> tr...@syzygy.cs.jhu.edu (Denise Tree) writes:
>i dunno, i think a lot of times, joining a larger community means
>going in with the understanding that you will have to deal mostly
>with the boys and their issues. so, the gay community is very GWM
>focused, and the gender community is very MtF focused. luckily for
>me, i am quite comfortable in the company of boys, whether GWMs or
>preops MtFs. were i less so, i'd be s.o.l. it's sad, as it's an
>attitude like this that keeps dykes out of mixed queer organizations
>and keeps FtMs out of the gender community.
Sad but apparently true a lot of the time. A bi female friend of mine
was talking with me about the controversies in her various queer
women's social & political groups about MtF TS people who wanted to
be accepted but unfortunately would often display stereotypical
"male" behavior, dominating the discussions and trying to steer them
toward TS concerns, while claiming to want to be accepted as women just
like any other woman. My friend said that several groups who'd initially
wanted to be open to all female-identified people eventually ended up
reverting to "woman born woman" rules of admission because of the
male energy messing up the female space they were trying to create.
She acknowledged that not all TS folks were like that, but apparently
the experience was common and troublesome enough that she admitted she
was starting to get biased against including MtF TS's.
Reminds me of Deborah Tannen's writings about the different communication
styles. I hate to believe these stereotypes are true, but alas they
often are. I still think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy induced by
socialization rather than something genetically bred into us. Changing
a lifetime of conditioning takes conscious effort.
>i figured out a long time ago, though, that the only way to make more
>dykes or more FtMs, or more female gamers, or whetever, stay in
>mixed groups was for the few of us there WERE to doggedly hang on, and
>sooner or later, others would turn up, and, seeing that there were
>more of us, would give whatever group a chance.
Gaming's a fun example. My girlfriend's recently been kidding me & my
other male friends about gaming being so male-dominated. Turns out she
enjoys gaming, but she is not comfortable going to the weekly university
gaming evenings because of the almost all-male atmosphere.
This was an educational experience to me, as I learned that I'd bought
into the stereotype myself: I'd never invited her to play games because
I'd just assumed she wasn't interested because she was female. Of course
I hadn't consciously thought it out like that, but that's what had gone
on in my subconscious. The idea that my girlfriend might enjoy gaming
was inconceivable until she brought it up. (It was reinforced by having
been in an 8 year marriage with another woman who indeed did not enjoy
gaming.)
>but then, FtMs generally pass so well, blending into society without
>a ripple is possible, so often times people don't feel like hanging
>out in the gender community.
It does seem that FtMs pass better than MtFs often. Additionally,
I think that if a FtM is read, there is less of a negative reaction.
> me, i'm far more comfortable in the
>world of genderfuck than in one of gender polarity, and may never
>transition because of this.
>
>there's so much more to gender than being born either male or female and
>being surgically and hormonally altered to be either male or female.
>some of us feel more like both, or neither, or some new creation of
>our own.
Ok, you sound like a pretty interesting unusual person! I'm glad to see
you posting a lot lately. Can you tell more about yourself?
E.g., do you think of yourself as male, female, both, neither or some
new creation? What pronoun do you prefer used for you, or does it vary?
(If you've posted a bio already, forgive my missing it.) (Or my
lame memory :-)
>so, has anyone read _stone butch blues_ or listened to leslie
>feinberg speak in person?
No, though I almost bought it at a sale the other day. Decided 3 books
was enough, though... How is it?
Another topic for discussion occurs to me: the relationship between
gender identity and sexual orientation. I found that questioning the
arbitrary distinctions of "male" & "female" and "straight" & "gay"
went hand in hand for me, and I gradually became (?) or realized I was (?)
a genderfuck bisexual. But gender identity and sexual orientation
are, at least theoretically, logically independent attributes in many
people. So what is going on with that?
Going away for Thanksgiving just as things are REALLY taking off,
Russ
Stephen M. Gardner
>i figured out a long time ago, though, that the only way to make more
>dykes or more FtMs, or more female gamers, or whetever, stay in
>mixed groups was for the few of us there WERE to doggedly hang on, and
>sooner or later, others would turn up, and, seeing that there were
>more of us, would give whatever group a chance.
and FtMs. I want to thank you for bringing a fresh perspective.
I really appreciate your participation.
>there's so much more to gender than being born either male or female and
>being surgically and hormonally altered to be either male or female.
>some of us feel more like both, or neither, or some new creation of
>our own. there's more to sexual orientation than gay and straight,
>there's more to race than black and white, and there's more to
>gender than male and female.
Ain't that the truth! I wish more people could see it that
way. Humans would get along a lot better if these silly,
socially constructed barriers like race and gender were to
dissappear.
>so, has anyone read _stone butch blues_
No, but perhaps I should. Could you do a mini-book review
for us? I'm afraid I'm a bit ignorant of lesbian literature.
smg
Ed Matz
Denise Tree <tr...@syzygy.cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
>In article <CGzFJ...@metronet.com>,
>Stephen M. Gardner <gar...@metronet.com> wrote:
>
>+-----
>|In article <CGx89...@world.std.com| em...@world.std.com (Ed Matz) writes:
>| -> Agreed! And some of the issues are, IMHO, serious cultural issues than
>| -> DESPERATELY need to be discussed and hashed out.
>| Exactly! I couldn't agree more. I think we are making history
>| here. This is a really good forum for examining the silliness
>| of gender roles.
>|
>probably be received openly. It seems unfortunate that often, the
>members of one area of the sex/gender continuum display an alarming
>intollerance/misunderstanding about adjacent groups who have, also, an
It was the intolerance that, I think, surprised me the most. I guess
I kinda figured that there would be more tolerance for diversity in
this community. Guess not, at least among some.
>alternative sex/gender/sexuality mapping. It would be nice to have a
>mailing list or newsgroup where discussions are not skewed toward one
>point of view, ie. the MtF ts/tv view that prevails here.
Hmmmm . . . I always feel a bit self-conscious expressing opinions that
presume that the crossdresser is MtF. That presumption comes out of
some awareness that there are more MtFs than FtMs, but I still feel that
I'm exclusing unfairly.
>______________________________________________________________________
>_______________ Kira D. Triea
>________________________________tr...@cs.jhu.edu
>_________________________________________.... . . . . . . .
> .
> .
> *
--Ed Matz
Gisle Benediktsson
: i dunno, i think a lot of times, joining a larger community means
: going in with the understanding that you will have to deal mostly
: with the boys and their issues. so, the gay community is very GWM
: focused, and the gender community is very MtF focused.
That seems to be true for now, without a lot of evidence of impending
change. For now, it may be easiest to use to master's tools to dismantle
his house. (to steal from Audre Lorde :-)
I've noticed that very few women (butch women, as an example) share themselves
on the newsgroups. It would be a violation of the unspoken "political
correctness" code since roles themselves are supposed to be diminishing
into oblivion. (Personally, I think they are just cloaked differently
although they are still there...) On some other newsgroups, the representation
of women (butch or otherwise) is very low also. There is very little
discussion of lesbian issues outside of their congruency with gay male
issues.
: luckily for
: me, i am quite comfortable in the company of boys, whether GWMs or
: preops MtFs. were i less so, i'd be s.o.l. it's sad, as it's an
: attitude like this that keeps dykes out of mixed queer organizations
: and keeps FtMs out of the gender community.
That is very true. I would like to see more women and FtMs express
themselves on here.
: i figured out a long time ago, though, that the only way to make more
: dykes or more FtMs, or more female gamers, or whetever, stay in
: mixed groups was for the few of us there WERE to doggedly hang on, and
: sooner or later, others would turn up, and, seeing that there were
: more of us, would give whatever group a chance.
Well, there is *no* possibility without that attitude, of course.
: but then, FtMs generally pass so well, blending into society without
: a ripple is possible, so often times people don't feel like hanging
: out in the gender community. me, i'm far more comfortable in the
: world of genderfuck than in one of gender polarity, and may never
: transition because of this.
I simply can't imagine living in the limited world of binary gender
definitions. "Limited" is exactly the way I perceive it because of
the continuum which is naturally clear to me. I actually have a difficult
time even *understanding* (intellectually) the binary perception.
: there's so much more to gender than being born either male or female and
: being surgically and hormonally altered to be either male or female.
: some of us feel more like both, or neither, or some new creation of
: our own. there's more to sexual orientation than gay and straight,
: there's more to race than black and white, and there's more to
: gender than male and female.
That is *exactly* my feeling about the whole gender thing. I am a blend,
a compilation of qualities -- some more traditionally "female" and some
more traditionally "male". Example: I am very feminine in my reaction
to emotion and my gentleness in approaching things. Yet in my relationships,
I am the "protector" of the unit, the one who assumes the responsibility
for those kinds of issues and have, in the past, been the financial
provider. I tend to be "possessive" and that is probably a more "male"
trait.
I had an interesting discussion with someone about these things, not
too long ago. One can take traditionally "feminine" emotions and
have them manifest in a "male" way. One example of that for me is
jealousy. I tend to be a very jealous person. (ahem :-) While
that is considered to a more "feminine" feeling, it manifests in a
very "male" way for me. I am not concerned that someone else will
be "chosen" over me. I am concerned that someone is encroaching on
"my territory". (And, yes, I am aware of the political incorrectness
of that. No need to tell me about it. :-)
My style of dress tends to be on the "butch" side while my grooming
style is very feminine.
I guess all of this "androgyny" seems so natural and normal to me
that it barely warrants discussion. It is just....... normal.
: >
: >I think it would be really nice to have discussions which were able to
: >include _all_ types of people, on the subject of sex and gender. In
: >reading netnews I am amazed at how segregated people are. Witness the
: >bisexual/homosexual flame wars which sometimes erupt and the near
: >total lack of discussion of intersex issues.
[interjection here to the previous post]
This whole society is set up in a "segregated" manner. It is the typical
Western dialectic. Divide and conquer.
: well, then let's HAVE one. the only way to have a discussion is to
: DO so, not just sit and talk about the fact that we AREN'T.
Okay. I am available.
: so, has anyone read _stone butch blues_ or listened to leslie
: feinberg speak in person? i met her once, in town for a queer
: writing conference. it was funny, she & i were wearing the same
: suit. different earrings, though *grin*
Yes, I read "Stone Butch Blues" and found it to be a fascinating
history of "butches" in the 50s. I also saw a lot of historical
accuracy in terms of women having to "pass" as men in order to
earn the income necessary for independence from men. I found it
to be a politically powerful book in that regard alone. The
"personal" story was ho-hum. I think of it as a political book,
a powerful statement about women's oppression as well as lots
of juicy labor issues. As a former union organizer, those issues
gave me a lot to think about and remember.
I was ambivalent about Jess' choice to pass. I understood it intellectually
while feeling somewhat violated as a woman by the fact that it was
necessary.
Has anyone read "Odd Girls and Twighlight Lovers?" (Lillian Faderman).
It is a very good history.
//gjb
Denise Tree
+------
|In article <2cvhtq$2...@blaze.cs.jhu.edu|
|tr...@syzygy.cs.jhu.edu (Denise Tree) writes:
|
| (Kira's post deleted)
|
|but then, FtMs generally pass so well, blending into society without
|a ripple is possible, so often times people don't feel like hanging
|out in the gender community. me, i'm far more comfortable in the
|world of genderfuck than in one of gender polarity, and may never
|transition because of this.
+------
I've sometimes wondered if MtF ts's actually have a greater motivation
to develop an evolved gender construct for just this reason.
Intersexed people are more common but *far* *far* less visible, partly
because of childhood conditioning and because intersexed people are not
recognisable as such: you don't need to come out if you don't want to.
This has also been mostly true for the FtM ts's I've met.
This isn't really a good thing though... it makes it too easy to
ignore issues which are still lurking but un-dealt with. Just because
you pass as a "normal" person (I do) doesn't mean you "are" a normal
person (I'm not). And who wants to be normal anyway? Excuse my use of
this term... it's a personal code word which I use to symbolize "not
intersexed".
|there's so much more to gender than being born either male or female and
|being surgically and hormonally altered to be either male or female.
|some of us feel more like both, or neither, or some new creation of
|our own. there's more to sexual orientation than gay and straight,
|there's more to race than black and white, and there's more to
|gender than male and female.
+-----
Oh come on... now you're going too far.
+------
|well, then let's HAVE one. the only way to have a discussion is to
|DO so, not just sit and talk about the fact that we AREN'T.
+------
Oh I'm not saying that there aren't interesting subjects discussed
here on alt.t ... I've been involved in one or two. I'm just wishing
that there existed a forum for the discussion of gender issues that
was more or less non-gender-identified and non-sexuality-identified.
Hell, "straight" people could post ( I *really* wonder about them).
One thing seems to be true though.. if people don't *need* to think
about sex and gender... they usually just don't. It seems to be just
too upsetting to most people that there are people born who
are niether sex or that some people would want to reverse their sex of
birth (shudder). Most people just *don't* want to think about it,
which may be the root of most of the persecution of sex/gender "minorities".
People need to attack what is personnally threatening in order to help
preserve their own sense of gender... and I believe that this is in
definate congruence with gender acquisition theories which postulate a
stage of opposite gender behavior proscription.
|so, has anyone read _stone butch blues_ or listened to leslie
|feinberg speak in person? i met her once, in town for a queer
|writing conference. it was funny, she & i were wearing the same
|suit. different earrings, though *grin*
+------
I bought it for my SO... she's more butch than me.
______________________________________________________________________
________________ Kira D. Triea
Pat Winstanley
" subconscious. The idea that my girlfriend might enjoy gaming
" was inconceivable until she brought it up. (It was reinforced by having
" been in an 8 year marriage with another woman who indeed did not enjoy
" gaming.)
"
Hmm... perhaps because she was one of the many human beings who don't,
or perhaps because nobody had ever given or "allowed" her the opening
to see....... ;-)
Sorry - this isn't aimed at you particularly at all, it just really
annoys me that somehow women are seen as "masculine" just because they
have fun and adventure in the technical side of life. (Or for that
matter men as "feminine" because they want to nurse, or cook or
whatever).
I've seen comments from some M2F TSs who refuse to now change the car
tyre, or work with computers because it's "unfeminine" - TOSH!
Pat
--
pee...@f113.n250.z2.fidonet.org
pee...@friend.demon.co.uk
Jan A Hall
As a MTF TS, I probably come into the category of refusing to be involved in
activities that are regarded as unfeminine. I prefer to avoid changing tyres,
playing with power tools, carrying heavy objects and other activitiess that are
perceived to be male, although as you can see I'm quite happy with computers.
But there is a good reason to avoid doing such things during the RLT.
In the RLT, a lot of the success in readjusting with people who previously knew
you as a man is to avoid sending people conflicting signals. Unfortunately there
are certain activities that tend to encourage previously learnt male behavioral
patterns. These can be most disconcerting for the people around you.
People see what they expect to see. If you act like a man, they treat
you like a man. For that reason where possible, I avoid doing anything that
interferes with my female status, even if I risk being labelled as hyperfeminine
because of it. It's much less to do with stereotype, than with neccessity.
Once people have readjusted to you in a female role you can do whatever you like
again, they will think of you as the woman you are.
Apart from that I never much liked changing tyres and playing with power
tools in the first place!
Jan
--
============================================================================
Jan Hall jah...@napcc-hp.cvm.uiuc.edu
Russ Williams
Pat Winstanley <pee...@friend.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <2d0m0e$b...@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> ru...@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams) writes:
>" subconscious. The idea that my girlfriend might enjoy gaming
>" was inconceivable until she brought it up. (It was reinforced by having
>" been in an 8 year marriage with another woman who indeed did not enjoy
>" gaming.)
>Hmm... perhaps because she was one of the many human beings who don't,
>or perhaps because nobody had ever given or "allowed" her the opening
>to see....... ;-)
Granted, the majority of people are not gamers... but you'd be fooling
yourself if you didn't admit that the vast majority of gamers are male.
In any case, my exwife did try gaming occasionally, but it just wasn't
her cup of tea.
>Sorry - this isn't aimed at you particularly at all, it just really
>annoys me that somehow women are seen as "masculine" just because they
>have fun and adventure in the technical side of life. (Or for that
>matter men as "feminine" because they want to nurse, or cook or
>whatever).
Not sure if you meant that *I* saw gaming as inherently masculine.
I don't. But the skewed gender statistics of the gaming population
do make me (and others) tend to unconsciously assume that a given
male is more likely to be a gamer than a given female is. I think
this statistical fact is probably a self-perpetuating one, since
now that it exists, I know many females are reluctant to become the
only female gamer in an all-male group.
Anyway, I know it was silly of me to assume my current girlfriend
would not be interested in gaming, and that was my point: that even
those of us who are more conscious of these issues tend to have
blind spots.
Russ
Cheryl Lins
[a long discussion whether M>F TS should do "manly" activities or not and
she believes she shouldn't]
>Apart from that I never much liked changing tyres and playing with power
>tools in the first place!
I agree 100% with Jan on this one. I *like* being a girl. For me, the only
reason to do manly activities when I was in the role of one was to avoid
being labeled a "sissy" or other deragatory term that some men like to hurl
at other men who don't fit their idea of being masculine. Part of it too
might be the simple fact that we grow up with a particular set of biological
equipment (including a hormonal system to match) so we come to believe that
the activities we do define who we are.
--
Cheryl Lins che...@presto.ig.com
"Ah! when imagination once runs riot where do we stop?" -- Charlotte Bronke
Gisle Benediktsson
: might be the simple fact that we grow up with a particular set of biological
: equipment (including a hormonal system to match) so we come to believe that
: the activities we do define who we are.
That seems to be a non-gender-specific social disease.
//gjb
Tina
In article <Nov.30.09.52....@net.bio.net> che...@net.bio.net
(Cheryl L
ins) writes:
>In article <2dcddm$o...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> jah...@napcc-hp.cvm.uiuc.edu
(Jan A
Hall) writes:
>
>[a long discussion whether M>F TS should do "manly" activities or not and
> she believes she shouldn't]
>
>>Apart from that I never much liked changing tyres and playing with power
>>tools in the first place!
>
>I agree 100% with Jan on this one. I *like* being a girl. For me, the only
>reason to do manly activities when I was in the role of one was to avoid
>being labeled a "sissy" or other deragatory term that some men like to hurl
Well, that's fine for you, Cheryl. Possibly the most important result of the
feminist movement is that you have that choice. For me, I enjoy working on
my car, and replaced the engine last summer without even breaking a nail.
The reaction of people who know me (but not as TS) is not "Gee, I wonder if
she used to be a guy...", but rather "Right on girlfriend!" Usually followed
by "You know, my car is knocking/rattling/whining/whatever. Can you fix it?"
I also play with radios and electronic things, program computers for a
living, and sleep with women. I can't seem anything manly about any of these
activities.
Different strokes and all that. If you wish to live by 1950s ideas on sex
roles, fine. But don't deny my womanhood because I do things you don't.
Oh, and I *do* like being a girl. Very much so. Just ask my Magic Wand. :-)
./Tina
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to he...@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to ad...@anon.penet.fi.