35 never married, not dating, never had a girlfriend. Is this normal? Any ideas for help?
Richard Hutnik
of counselling that would work, that I could look up. I don't think I
need a psychotherapist, and I consider such to be a waste of time
personally, unless you have deep emotional problems. I am also in an
advice seeking mode, so a Rogerian school of echoing back my thoughts
to solve my own problems would be a waste of time to. I do that on my
own.
My situation is this. I am now 35. I never had a girlfriend (in real
life locally). I am not dating now, know no one local, nor anyone
locally who knows anyone. Church ends up reflecting the area, with
almost no singles here.
I have used Web dating services. One religious one I tried ended up
with a woman I know realizing that it wouldn't work. She had
different priorities with her life, and the issue of her having kids,
along with religious differences, resulted in not a match. She had an
interest in me initially, we did just friends, but nothing much
happened. I hardly ever saw her. Her being in NYC, busy studying for
nursing exams meant she had no time, but she kept in touch.
Then there was http://www.eharmony.com. For over a year I kept in
touch with some woman in Texas. We tried to keep things at friend
level, but things dabbled here and there, and the end result was that
religious differences she felt, plus the distance, ended things. She
went on and found someone else closer, and it should work. For me,
the religious issues aren't a problem, but they are with someone else.
A giggle I get out of this was that I thought Dr. Warren's work on
the subject was about the best ever on dating, and that is about as
far as I got. I generated an excess amount of initial matches, and
they widdled down to two women, with the one in Texas being the only
one who expressed an interest enough to keep writing.
As of now, the only prospects I have are a few foreign women I know,
half way around the globe I keep in touch with. Can you say, not
likely to happen?
Well, I have tried to do dating. If I am lucky enough to get a match
through a dating service, the meeting ends up with no chemistry
usually. No physical attraction in almost all cases. Even in the
case of the woman in NYC, I met her and didn't have any. But kept in
touch.
Oh, there was the one woman I knew locally, with whom I spent time
with, and she eventually wanted me to marry her. It wasn't a match at
all. Too diverse backgrounds, interests. Never mind the fact she had
a drug problem (I found out later). We spoke later about things
(months later), she said she probably would of cheated on me anyhow.
Of course, there is her sister, who I hit it off better, who ended up
testing positive for HIV (at least shared an interest in boardgames,
and her kids hit it off with me fine).
Anyhow, I could go on about the false starts, false leads and multiple
net infatuations. Also, the faupaws, and screw ups I have done, but I
don't want to be dumping here. A classic case of saying the wrong
thing at the wrong time.
And in all this, no formal girlfriend or anything. No committment to
anyone, no trial runs to see if marriage would be in the cards. An
interest in marriage, but girlfriend.
Anyhow, can anyone point me in the right direction for help? Who can
I talk to? This is utterly confusing me, let allow making me cranky
if I meditate on it. Perhaps a book can be recommended, although I
have read a bunch. Not even sure what I want or would expect. And
the contradictory advice I have tried to follow, hasn't worked either.
- Richard Hutnik
DaKitty
"Richard Hutnik" <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:37bc9e37.03050...@posting.google.com...
I think you should go on a limb and try counseling, if nothing else, just
for grins.
You might be surprized. They are THE ones to talk to when you feel stuck.
"Re: 35 never married, not dating, never had a girlfriend. Is this
ormal?" - no that's not the average, I think you would really benefit from
seeing a shrink. Noone else you "talk to" is really more qualified then they
are. Talking to 'others' is just going to set you up for more failure and
more emotional blows.
It takes a big man to ask for help, now go to where people know what they're
doing (well, at least know more than anyone else around)
Annette M. Stroud
Richard Hutnik <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Perhaps someone out there could help. Maybe anyone knows a category
>of counselling that would work, that I could look up. I don't think I
>need a psychotherapist, and I consider such to be a waste of time
>personally, unless you have deep emotional problems. I am also in an
>advice seeking mode, so a Rogerian school of echoing back my thoughts
>to solve my own problems would be a waste of time to. I do that on my
>own.
Self-rogering may be part of the problem.
Counseling may help. You may want to interview a couple of counselors and
see if any seem to be a good fit.
Finding a counselor/therapist in itself is a lot like dating -- but
without the sexual pressure. You may find you have little social phobias
holding you back, and even the exercise of finding a counselor may be
liberating.
Annette
Darkfalz
never been shallower, so there are a lot of us out there.
Extrya
> It's not normal, but then again, it's not rare anymore for men. Women have
> never been shallower, so there are a lot of us out there.
Western women you mean...
Darkfalz
news:3eb23d83$0$31528$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
Hong Kong, Japanese and European women are just as bad. Women living in
poverty stricken countries where their first priority is day to day
survival, I guess they don't have time to think about such things.
David
Your experiences sound normal. Keep at it and you may find someone
someday. If you are anxious about it not already happening perhaps
you should look at why. You mentioned a few women that you discarded
when it was obvious they didn't match. Okay, but high school level dating
generally goes farther than adult dating goes. It just depends on what
you are looking for -- shallow or deep relationships. Counceling may or
may not help. I'll leave that up to you.
David
On Fri, 2 May 2003 05:27:42 UTC, richar...@hotmail.com (Richard Hutnik)
wrote:
Extrya
"Darkfalz" <dark...@xis.com.au> wrote in message
news:b8tg9a$dqbm6$1...@ID-108208.news.dfncis.de...
well stop complaining about the type of women you
hate and get one from somewhere else !
Richard Hutnik
> I think you should go on a limb and try counseling, if nothing else, just
> for grins.
> You might be surprized. They are THE ones to talk to when you feel stuck.
>
> "Re: 35 never married, not dating, never had a girlfriend. Is this
> ormal?" - no that's not the average, I think you would really benefit from
> seeing a shrink. Noone else you "talk to" is really more qualified then they
> are. Talking to 'others' is just going to set you up for more failure and
> more emotional blows.
>
> It takes a big man to ask for help, now go to where people know what they're
> doing (well, at least know more than anyone else around)
I have prayed a bunch about this, either to get this resolved, or to
at least have peace and contentment about being single. As for
seeking counseling, which type of person should I see? Schools of
psychology I am familar with, don't give advice. They merely listen.
I have people can vent to for free.
- Richard Hutnik
The Danimal
> In article <37bc9e37.03050...@posting.google.com>,
> Richard Hutnik <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Perhaps someone out there could help. Maybe anyone knows a category
> >of counselling that would work, that I could look up.
Unlikely. There is not really any recognized institutional support
for loserguys.
If you want to learn how to play the guitar, make pottery, become
a physician, or just about anything else, you can easily hire someone
to teach you. Many disciplines have formal systems of accreditation
to insure that your teacher is qualified.
But when it comes to the tricky art of learning how to attract
women, you are pretty much on your own.
Which is incredibly weird in light of the fact that the ability
to attract women is probably second only to your basic health
and survival on the scale of things which influence your happiness
(as a man with heterosexual orientation).
I think this lack of institutional support is due to the fact that
most men don't have to be formally taught how to attract at least one
woman. Probably a majority of men (80%? 90%?) will eventually score
if they keep trying long enough and just do whatever, and if necessary
they are willing to settle for a woman who is less than ideally
attractive to them.
> >I don't think I
> >need a psychotherapist, and I consider such to be a waste of time
> >personally, unless you have deep emotional problems. I am also in an
> >advice seeking mode, so a Rogerian school of echoing back my thoughts
> >to solve my own problems would be a waste of time to. I do that on my
> >own.
To get useful advice, you will need to tell an "expert" (if such
a thing exists in this area) enough about yourself for the "expert"
to determine what is holding you back.
That's unlikely to happen in a text-only medium. Your results with
chicks depend inherently on a lot of factors that are only assessable
in person or perhaps over a high-definition videophone connection.
Factors like your physical appearance, how tall you are, what your
voice sounds like, your manner of speaking, your physical mannerisms,
etc., are easy for anybody to assess during face-to-face contact but
can be difficult to describe accurately and objectively in text.
However, the basic approach is easy enough to outline:
1. You have to understand what most women want (both what they want
in the ideal case, and also what they are willing to settle for if
they don't get their first choice).
2. You have to determine exactly where you are falling short
of what most women want. For a 35-year-old virgin this is likely
to be a very painful step.
3. You have to come up with a scheme for addressing the deficiencies
you can address.
4. You need a procedure for meeting a lot of women and
making the best initial impression that you can.
5. You need to consider what you want in a woman and determine
whether you have a realistic shot of attracting a woman who has
everything you want. Very few people can attract a partner they
consider ideally attractive. Most people have to settle for a
partner they consider less than ideally attractive, and the
longer a person goes without succeeding, the less he or she
must usually settle for eventually. It's like getting busted back
to the minor leagues in baseball. A player who fails at a given
level moves down to the next lower level, and so on, until he
finds a level where he can play ball.
It's too bad you had the misfortune to be born so early. Perhaps
in another 30 to 50 years, men will become smart enough to build
ideally attractive artificial companions who are programmed to
automatically love their owners. Then men can simply enjoy being
themselves even if who they are isn't very attractive to real women.
> Self-rogering may be part of the problem.
I doubt it. Probably 99% of men self-roger, and only a few men
are still virgins at age 35.
> Counseling may help. You may want to interview a couple of counselors and
> see if any seem to be a good fit.
Richard, before you spend one dime on any counselor, insist on
meeting several of said counselor's satisfied clients. Ideally,
you'd like some solid before/after evidence. Look for a counselor
who has advised men who were in similarly dire straits---resorting
to appeals to Usenet for help with the 35-year-old virginitis
problem.
Then, if possible, meet the men after treatment and above all meet
their new wives/girlfriends/groupies. If a counselor has a track record
of helping men like Richard Hutnik attract women like the women
Richard wants to attract, then consider retaining that counselor.
Ideally you'd like to pay for RESULTS, not for just the counseling.
I.e., if you don't attract the woman you want, you shouldn't have
to pay the counselor anything.
If a counselor can show no evidence of usefully assisting any man
in your condition, DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY.
From what I have read, usually counselors will not try to teach
you anything useful about picking up chicks. Instead they will
only try to help you live with your current misery. The counselor
profits not from solving your problem, but from making you dependent
on the counselor for more counseling sessions.
> Finding a counselor/therapist in itself is a lot like dating -- but
> without the sexual pressure. You may find you have little social phobias
> holding you back, and even the exercise of finding a counselor may be
> liberating.
The exercise will certainly liberate a lot of money from your wallet.
Annette, have you seen a counselor?
Did the counselor help you get your gluttony under control?
A counselor doesn't get paid to actually solve anybody's real problem.
A counselor gets paid by making sure the client keeps coming back
for more counseling.
The counselor's best profit comes from helping the client feel
good during the counseling session, with the effect wearing off
soon after the client leaves. That's the same racket which every
church runs. People go to church, listen to a bunch of comforting
lies, enjoy some social interaction, and then in another week
they need another hit.
-- the Danimal
Richard Hutnik
> Richard,
>
> Your experiences sound normal. Keep at it and you may find someone
> someday. If you are anxious about it not already happening perhaps
> you should look at why. You mentioned a few women that you discarded
> when it was obvious they didn't match. Okay, but high school level dating
> generally goes farther than adult dating goes. It just depends on what
> you are looking for -- shallow or deep relationships. Counceling may or
> may not help. I'll leave that up to you.
>
> David
In my case, I only had one date in high school, so I never dated. The
first girl I asked out (beginning of senior year) and I got a yes.
Then it went downhill. I tried and tried and tried and couldn't get a
date. I probably did things wrong by asking. A high school
councellor said it would get better when I got to college, and it
didn't happen (went to an engineering school, screwed up one shot I
possibly had with a woman there I found attractive who showed some
interest in me). Then, one thing or another (another engineering
school, a commuter school without a social life, and I was then an
older student). Then I end up in an area that is a bed and family
raising area (no single community, but scattered singles). Thus, I am
now in a place at 35, where I can't find anything. And I tried dating
services to. I had gone back multiple times to one in the area, that
was the only one, that I had an abysmal time at.
At this point, I wonder why I should even bother.
- Richard Hutnik
DaKitty
Get a psychologist that uses a variety of methods. Phych is not a one size
fits all.
If you're in the US, go to your primary care physician, ask for a referral
to a psychologist, a versatile one, and go from there.
Don't worry too much about which school of thought they use, that stuff
changes all the time.
Most good psychologists use a variety of methods, just depends on what their
patient is receptive to and what they benefit from. I really believe that
even though people are a lot alike, there is still a lot of uniqueness to
all of us, and the methodology needs to be adjusted to get the most progress
out of the patient.
Noone knows exactly what will work for you till they start getting to know
you some, so don't be surprised if at first they let you do the talking.
I've seen some good links on the net an\bout "how to choose and what to
expect from a shrink" I'll have to dig them up and post them." You may need
to meet more than one psychologist before you find one that you click with,
that is not very unusual.
And DON'T compare what they're telling you to what you read, to what you
think you may already know. Don't get into power struggle with your shrink.
Clear your mind and listen to them. If something just seems too off the
wall, let us know.
DaKitty
you're en engineer!
Now, *that* explains everything! .... ;)
(Sorry, I'm just teasing you, I'm an engineer too)
David
wrote:
> "David" <FlyLike...@United.Com> wrote in message news:<rOdGr40LMPU3-pn2-QKYKzUwGtK2j@localhost>...
Richard,
I can relate. I was too occupied in HS to ever date. Made one attempt
in college. No mutual attraction there. Didn't really start trying/dating
until
I was 26. By 28 had found a woman possibly worth marrying and did.
It was a mistake but one I don't regret. Anyway I'm still alone at 40 and
don't mind. Could use more local friends or a real relationship but haven't
found the energy to make it happen.
Good luck,
David
Richard Hutnik
not correct. The aroma of arrogance also in your email needs to be
addressed also.
dmo...@mfm.com (The Danimal) wrote in message news:<cac1ad88.03050...@posting.google.com>...
> ast...@nyx10.nyx.net (Annette M. Stroud) wrote in message news:<10518605...@irys.nyx.net>...
> > In article <37bc9e37.03050...@posting.google.com>,
> > Richard Hutnik <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >Perhaps someone out there could help. Maybe anyone knows a category
> > >of counselling that would work, that I could look up.
>
> Unlikely. There is not really any recognized institutional support
> for loserguys.
Neato. I like how you ran through one person to take a shot at me.
> But when it comes to the tricky art of learning how to attract
> women, you are pretty much on your own.
This is true.
> Which is incredibly weird in light of the fact that the ability
> to attract women is probably second only to your basic health
> and survival on the scale of things which influence your happiness
> (as a man with heterosexual orientation).
>
> I think this lack of institutional support is due to the fact that
> most men don't have to be formally taught how to attract at least one
> woman. Probably a majority of men (80%? 90%?) will eventually score
> if they keep trying long enough and just do whatever, and if necessary
> they are willing to settle for a woman who is less than ideally
> attractive to them.
I personally think that either the majority of people are horrible at
this. When I have asked people they don't have an f'n clue, except
they stumble and bumble their way through things. But yes, if a guy
doesn't care what kind of woman he would nail, and just wants to get
laid, just go ahead and load up the booze.
> To get useful advice, you will need to tell an "expert" (if such
> a thing exists in this area) enough about yourself for the "expert"
> to determine what is holding you back.
And pray tell, who are these experts? Am I to use speed seduction by
chase?
> However, the basic approach is easy enough to outline:
>
> 1. You have to understand what most women want (both what they want
> in the ideal case, and also what they are willing to settle for if
> they don't get their first choice).
I certainly have read enough books on the subject. And knowing this
didn't mean that I was willing to pay the price for such. If I was
willing to sell my soul for just this one endeavour, then I could get
this. As I stated before I had a woman who wanted to marry me. We
weren't a couple, but I spent time with her.
> 2. You have to determine exactly where you are falling short
> of what most women want. For a 35-year-old virgin this is likely
> to be a very painful step.
Ok, I assume you are speaking of someone else. I am not a virgin.
One doesn't have to of ever had a girlfriend to not be a virgin. When
I said girlfriend, I didn't mean sex partner, just to let you know.
And your commenting this way definitely shows the difference between
men and women regarding this. Men want to get laid, women want a
relationship. Do you reduce girlfriend to mean sex partner?
> 3. You have to come up with a scheme for addressing the deficiencies
> you can address.
>
> 4. You need a procedure for meeting a lot of women and
> making the best initial impression that you can.
As I believe I explained (if I hadn't I will now), I am in an area
where there aren't many places where a lot of single women meet.
Supposed singles functions fizzle out due to lack of turnout. And it
doesn't help that I don't know any other single guys I can go out and
do the lead and wingman routine with. When I go out alone, it just
doesn't work. This is what I am faced with. It does put things in an
ackward light if there are multiple women who go out together. As I
said, this area where I am consists of mostly married people. And
they don't know anyone.
> 5. You need to consider what you want in a woman and determine
> whether you have a realistic shot of attracting a woman who has
> everything you want. Very few people can attract a partner they
> consider ideally attractive. Most people have to settle for a
> partner they consider less than ideally attractive, and the
> longer a person goes without succeeding, the less he or she
> must usually settle for eventually. It's like getting busted back
> to the minor leagues in baseball. A player who fails at a given
> level moves down to the next lower level, and so on, until he
> finds a level where he can play ball.
The thing here is that if a woman reads you are just "settling" for
them, they typically won't be interested. That has been my
experience.
> > Self-rogering may be part of the problem.
>
> I doubt it. Probably 99% of men self-roger, and only a few men
> are still virgins at age 35.
Again, I will repeat. I am not a virgin.
> Richard, before you spend one dime on any counselor, insist on
> meeting several of said counselor's satisfied clients. Ideally,
> you'd like some solid before/after evidence. Look for a counselor
> who has advised men who were in similarly dire straits---resorting
> to appeals to Usenet for help with the 35-year-old virginitis
> problem.
You aren't getting this, are you?
> Then, if possible, meet the men after treatment and above all meet
> their new wives/girlfriends/groupies. If a counselor has a track record
> of helping men like Richard Hutnik attract women like the women
> Richard wants to attract, then consider retaining that counselor.
> Ideally you'd like to pay for RESULTS, not for just the counseling.
> I.e., if you don't attract the woman you want, you shouldn't have
> to pay the counselor anything.
>
> If a counselor can show no evidence of usefully assisting any man
> in your condition, DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY.
You are correct on this one point here, regarding the track record.
My experience is that the councelors are such generalists with things
is that their entire purpose is to make people happy and content, not
lead to successful change.
> From what I have read, usually counselors will not try to teach
> you anything useful about picking up chicks. Instead they will
> only try to help you live with your current misery. The counselor
> profits not from solving your problem, but from making you dependent
> on the counselor for more counseling sessions.
This is correct, regarding the happiness thing. People aren't looking
for change, they are looking to be happy. Thus, there is an entire
industry that deals with making people happy. The same goes for
financial. Someone has a problem with emotional issues dealing with
money, no one handles it.
> > Finding a counselor/therapist in itself is a lot like dating -- but
> > without the sexual pressure. You may find you have little social phobias
> > holding you back, and even the exercise of finding a counselor may be
> > liberating.
>
> The exercise will certainly liberate a lot of money from your wallet.
My exercising (gym membership) costs about $45 a month. Pretty
inexpensive actually.
> Annette, have you seen a counselor?
> Did the counselor help you get your gluttony under control?
Now, that is a cheap shot.
> A counselor doesn't get paid to actually solve anybody's real problem.
> A counselor gets paid by making sure the client keeps coming back
> for more counseling.
Reminds me of one said "marriage councellor" I spoke to. Wanted to
charge around $400+ a month so I could sit around and talk. Wowie,
group sessions.
> The counselor's best profit comes from helping the client feel
> good during the counseling session, with the effect wearing off
> soon after the client leaves. That's the same racket which every
> church runs. People go to church, listen to a bunch of comforting
> lies, enjoy some social interaction, and then in another week
> they need another hit.
At least through church, MAYBE there is a chance to get a sermon that
speaks to one issue or another, and may lead to behavior change. Good
old moralizing sermon will do that. I would rate this higher than the
talking head Rogerian types who are emulated in an Elisa program.
An interested note is that people actually have been helped by an
Elisa program.
- Richard Hutnik
Extrya
Thats the answer for all americans isn't it. Therapy. If you can't work
out for yourself what to do, you need to spend 89 bucks an hour
for someone else to tell you what to do. Basically at the end of it
(if there IS an end) he'll be told he has to go out more, meet more
people, fake another personality to get what he wants, learn the
art of conversation, live life to the fullest, tattoo affirmations to his
genitalia..etc etc..
whatever helps i guess
that'll be $89 thanks, see you every week for the rest of the year..
damn, shouldn't have given you the answer in the first session..
DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DaKitty
nah, you're talking about people who develop dependency on their shrinks,
which is also unhealthy. There are certainly a lot of people who develop
dependency on their shrinks, and a number of shrinks who don't mind it (to
say the least).
Successful therapy doesn't take years and years. It takes few appointments
to help clarify your thinking, and then some time for you to get with the
program.
Then if you get stuck again in some months or years, you revisit the shrink,
and see if they can help you resolve your thinking to move on to the next
stage.
You'd be surprised how many people re there that haven't learned some of the
'birds and the bees".... Kind of just like I'm surprised that you don't
have a really good understanding of what shrinks are for, but have adopted
the Hollywood-like stereotypical impression of what they are.
Makes me wanna ask, do you *really* think that, or are you just being
cynical? I can understand being cynical, but I have a hard time believing
that deep down inside you really believe what you said about the shrinks.
Extrya
> You'd be surprised how many people re there that haven't learned some of
the
> 'birds and the bees".... Kind of just like I'm surprised that you don't
> have a really good understanding of what shrinks are for, but have adopted
> the Hollywood-like stereotypical impression of what they are.
>
> Makes me wanna ask, do you *really* think that, or are you just being
> cynical? I can understand being cynical, but I have a hard time believing
> that deep down inside you really believe what you said about the shrinks.
Yes, yes i do. So enlighten me. What can/does a shrink do apart from
suggesting certain behaviour changes, sorting out your past problems,
making you look at things differently? They fix nothing, they just make
suggestions, suggestions you could get just by reading stuff on the net!
Like...here. Not from me obviously, but there's been a lot of posts
here from quite sensible people who seem to know what's what.
Then there's others who seem to hang around for the fun of it. You?
I'd love to know how one of these quacks has an understanding of
every human being on the earth. Theres a lot of clever sociopaths
out there and fooling some prat with a degree in hypnotism and
couch posture should be pretty easy..
You shouldn't be surprised at my cynicism, most Aussies balk at the
idea of 'seeing a shrink' - as if you can't work out, in your past history
for example, why you're feeling a certain way. I guess some people
just need things pointed out to them. As i said, whatever helps.
Richard seems to have given up the dating agency because of
a few mismatches. Now he needs to see a shrink ?
DaKitty
Well, since you know everything, and can work it all out, what are you doing
here?
Extrya
i don't know everything, but neither does one therapist. I figure
people with the same problem(s) as me would know more than
some guy who hasn't experienced it. Just some learned person
with a notepad. Also knowing what to do is a far cry from finding
the right moment to do it, then actually doing it. for eg: I've said to
myself
before many many times, "right, todays the day i'll say something"
or "i'll do it today if the situation occurs" but it either never does
or when right time comes, i miss it because i'm not paying attention.
I'm not blaming anything external because i'm just one of the throng
who can't put stuff behind them or not pay attention to it. Like an
idiot really...
Richard Hutnik
> you're en engineer!
> Now, *that* explains everything! .... ;)
>
> (Sorry, I'm just teasing you, I'm an engineer too)
Actually I am a management major (BS in management) who wanted to go
into psychology, but took a detour to get a Masters in Information
Systems for the money, and am now doing programming.
Surprising the money hasn't show up as much as I expected.
- Richard Hutnik
DaKitty
Extrya
> so, what do you do to get past that?
>
>
Be a hypocrite and fake a personality like everyone else? Surely
a relationship won't last long when you're trying to be something
you're not...you're in a relationship (sorry to sound Darkfalzian)
being a woman, how long would you last with a guy who faked
a way of behaving just to get near you? Someone who
doesn't like being social will get nowhere without either learning
to change or simply faking it. Fine, if seeing a shrink will do that,
go spend the cash....but for some ppl a fundamental change of
perception is the only fix, who knows what Richard needs - he
seems to be trying at least
Annette M. Stroud
Of course not. Nobody claims that one therapist, or even therapists
collectively, knows everything.
>I figure
>people with the same problem(s) as me would know more than
>some guy who hasn't experienced it.
And, amazingly enough, some therapists run peer counseling groups. Pretty
amazing, huh?
>Just some learned person
>with a notepad.
They're just doodling to keep awake.
>Also knowing what to do is a far cry from finding
>the right moment to do it, then actually doing it. for eg: I've said to
>myself
>before many many times, "right, todays the day i'll say something"
>or "i'll do it today if the situation occurs" but it either never does
>or when right time comes, i miss it because i'm not paying attention.
>I'm not blaming anything external because i'm just one of the throng
>who can't put stuff behind them or not pay attention to it. Like an
>idiot really...
Sometimes having the external accountability to a therapist is all it
takes to put into action your plans. Or to discover why you may be
sabotaging your own plans.
Annette
DaKitty
"Annette M. Stroud" <ast...@nyx10.nyx.net> wrote in message
news:10519326...@irys.nyx.net...
nod nod, Good post!
banhappinesspills
It is a supply and demand issue. Breeding females are always in short
supply because of the harem and double-dipping factor. You should save
up your money and go to the philippines and meet a girl there. There
are lots of spanish looking girls there. You have zero chance of
finding anything worthwhile in n america.
Sharon B
wrote:
[...]
>It is a supply and demand issue. Breeding females are always in short
>supply because of the harem and double-dipping factor. You should save
>up your money and go to the philippines and meet a girl there. There
>are lots of spanish looking girls there. You have zero chance of
>finding anything worthwhile in n america.
Are you a soc.fr00t?
Dave
Richard, I can empathise with you but have trouble trying to read between
the lines and work out exactly what your problem is? Is it depression? Is it
some personality disorder? I am in similar ground, I was single and
virginal until 32. Incredible what this can do to ones self esteem in this
society, things can really barrel roll.... I met a nice girl and stayed
together for a few years. Was great - got my confidence up and have been
single since then but fine and happy and go dating occaisionally and still
trying to find the right one now. The big things that keep me on the right
track despite my position is hapiness, confidence and determination. But
enough 'bout me...
Your Problem (my assumption):
1. You have been single all your life...
This makes things really hard, I know. I'm fairly attractive, intelligent,
fit, healthy and sociable and I had the same problem. The biggest problem
with this is that it will drain all your confidence and happines if you
don't deal with it well. The catch 22 is that in this state you will NEVER
be able to find a decent girl. Women want ppl who are happy, confident and
the big secret FUNNY! Just because you are in this unfortunate position it
does not mean you need therapy or medical advice unless there is another
problem. I think you would be lucky if therapy / medical advice did help
you but you never know.
My Advice (not in any specific order):
1. Don't listen to any one persons advice, particularly through the internet
and nesgroups inparticular, including mine.... :-)
2. Learn to be happy with what you have got (there are many worse of) but
don't lose your zest for what you desire. Maybe your religeon is not serving
you properly as this is what they are there for. Maybe look into other
religeons or forms of spirituality or philosophy. Or speak to your priest...
3. Take up hobbies that you will enjoy that will increase your social group
or chances of meeting women and confidence/happiness
4. Don't give up on dating agencies, personals, etc but don't rely on them
either. Searching for a bride overseas may not be that rediculous. Keep
going out, even if alone, take the chances, don't be afraid of rejection.
Walk the fucking streets if you have to....
5. Make sure your standards for a partner are realistic, even though Micheal
Douglas is going out with Catherine Zeta this is a very rare case and very
few other old crusty farts are that lucky, he's a movie star anyway... :-)
BTW Very few ppl are with the person of their dreams, the familiarity over
time is what does it.
6. Talk with others that are in your position, eg - this newsgroup and
elswhere...
7. IMPORTANT ONE>>>>>> Live, eat, excersise, sleep, breath a healthy life -
EG GET physically, mentally and spiritually fit. Always amazes me how many
health practioners forget this part before putting you on medication and
making up some bullshit disease you have. They are so arrogant!
8. Do not rely on someone else to make you happy - this must come from
within.
7. Can others add here as I know I've forgotten some obvious
things??????????
Give it time (EG: months)!
Finally, once all this is in place, if things are still bad (I am assuming
you are depressed if you are asking 'bout seeing therapists) then consider
seeing a professional. My personal opion is that councellors and anyone less
then a qualified psychiatrist are useless. And try not to go onto the drugs
that they will immediately try to give you - they ARE BAD. Excuse my
sceptisism in this area but really,what the fuck could they know????
In short, get happy with yourself and your life and your position (there are
some advantages to being single...), get confident, don't give up!!!!
NOW, if this helps then you owe me approximately $1,000 (hey, my advice is
cheaper and healthier then a professionals and it will fix all areas of your
life) and being a programmer you can afford it so please donate it to a fund
that aids suffering people for me.... And not pathetic sufferers like us,
I'm talking about REAL suffering people, like those with all their limbs
blown off in a war or AIDs victims in Africa, or disease ridden children in
India. Wake up Richard, you really are lucky!!!!!
"banhappinesspills" <charl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b3f99f5c.0305...@posting.google.com...
Annette M. Stroud
Crash Street Kidd <CrashSt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Annette was talking about Rogerian mirroring and
Yes. Although I do like a pun.
I have nothing against masturbation. Jocelyn Elders was a fine Surgeon
General.
Annette
The Danimal
> not correct. The aroma of arrogance also in your email needs to be
> addressed also.
No, no, no! I'm giving you some practice at deflecting mild
criticism.
If you think I'm harsh, try going out and talking to women.
I don't know everything there is to know about picking up women,
but I will tell you this: if a bit of mild criticism rattles your
cage, you'd better stick to safer pursuits.
The basic mechanism is this: a lot of women will, upon meeting
a man, toss a few minor disparaging remarks in his direction. It's
not always in an overtly mean way. It's a kind of teasing that
women do, to see how a man will handle it.
The worst way to handle it is to frown and scowl and get defensive
or upset or begin blasting away with self-endorsements, as if your
sacred honor has been violated and you are extremely uptight about
it.
The best way I've found to handle it is to respond with some
mild self-deprecating humor, which shows that you don't take yourself
too seriously, but at the same time you want to leave the woman
with the impression that you're kidding when you say something
negative about yourself. For example, don't admit to any real
faults, but instead it's safe to belittle yourself slightly about
something the woman can clearly see you are good at.
It's kind of like being obviously over-the-top in the wrong
direction, but like anything else you don't want to overdo it.
You'll know you've struck the right balance when the woman counters
your self-deprecating remark with an endorsement of you. If that
happens, then you've moved her away from disparaging you to praising
you.
> dmo...@mfm.com (The Danimal) wrote in message news:<cac1ad88.03050...@posting.google.com>...
> > ast...@nyx10.nyx.net (Annette M. Stroud) wrote in message news:<10518605...@irys.nyx.net>...
> > > In article <37bc9e37.03050...@posting.google.com>,
> > > Richard Hutnik <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >Perhaps someone out there could help. Maybe anyone knows a category
> > > >of counselling that would work, that I could look up.
> >
> > Unlikely. There is not really any recognized institutional support
> > for loserguys.
>
> Neato. I like how you ran through one person to take a shot at me.
I use "loserguys" in a technical sense that would be familiar to
anyone who reads soc.singles for a while before posting. You did
read the FAQ, right?
If you're uncomfortable being a loserguy, that will impede your
ability to recruit a woman to help you become something else. It's
better to know your place and give people the impression that you
are comfortable in your own skin.
> > But when it comes to the tricky art of learning how to attract
> > women, you are pretty much on your own.
>
> This is true.
Well, you do have soc.singles. But you get what you pay for.
If you want someone to speak nicely to you, you probably have
to hire someone.
> > Which is incredibly weird in light of the fact that the ability
> > to attract women is probably second only to your basic health
> > and survival on the scale of things which influence your happiness
> > (as a man with heterosexual orientation).
> >
> > I think this lack of institutional support is due to the fact that
> > most men don't have to be formally taught how to attract at least one
> > woman. Probably a majority of men (80%? 90%?) will eventually score
> > if they keep trying long enough and just do whatever, and if necessary
> > they are willing to settle for a woman who is less than ideally
> > attractive to them.
>
> I personally think that either the majority of people are horrible at
> this.
When the women are sober, yes. Most guys really don't know how to
walk up to some woman stranger on the street, totally cold, and
get her to accept an invitation to a date in 10 minutes.
> When I have asked people they don't have an f'n clue, except
> they stumble and bumble their way through things.
If a man has the personal characteristics that cause some random
woman to just like him, then he doesn't have to know how he is
attracting her.
Only loserguys (or guys who choose to pursue women far out of
their league) have to give the issue some thought.
It's like the way an accident victim has to re-learn how to
walk through months of painstaking physical therapy. A normal
adult is able to walk without consciously thinking about the
whole process.
> > To get useful advice, you will need to tell an "expert" (if such
> > a thing exists in this area) enough about yourself for the "expert"
> > to determine what is holding you back.
>
> And pray tell, who are these experts?
They would be any men who were once in your position and are
now in whatever position you wish to be.
Off the top of my head I can only think of one man I know who
was once in your position (30's, no girlfriend ever). I'm not
sure if he systematically tried to change, but he did change.
On soc.singles we hear from men such as you every month or so.
Usually they take advice poorly. They usually seem more concerned
with shooting down every suggestion than doing anything that
might improve their chances with women. I don't know if you are
one of those guys.
It's like the Pope asking how to solve the population explosion
without any use of artificial birth control.
> Am I to use speed seduction by chase?
That is a very good question. If you have the motivation to
memorize all those "patterns" and learn how to recite them
in a way which might seem "natural" to a woman, I don't see
how they could make your situation any worse. They might help.
If you are interested in that material, you could start by
reading all the free stuff first. A lot of it has a very
strong cultish/quasi-religious flavor, though. Lots of grandiose
claims, odd jargon, and a notable shortage of verifiable
evidence that it works and how well it works. Speaking for
myself, I haven't felt motivated to invest all the effort
it would take to learn the material. I think if a man is going
to put in that kind of effort he might be better off learning
to play a musical instrument (a proven chick-attractant if you
can learn to play well, but obviously like everything else it's
going to work better for guys who look good).
> > However, the basic approach is easy enough to outline:
> >
> > 1. You have to understand what most women want (both what they want
> > in the ideal case, and also what they are willing to settle for if
> > they don't get their first choice).
>
> I certainly have read enough books on the subject. And knowing this
> didn't mean that I was willing to pay the price for such.
What does that mean? Your sentence is vague. What price?
> If I was
> willing to sell my soul for just this one endeavour, then I could get
> this. As I stated before I had a woman who wanted to marry me. We
> weren't a couple, but I spent time with her.
When you ask for help on something you should explain your
background. Otherwise people may simply repeat things you have
already read.
Are you saying you are aware there are things you could do to
increase your attractiveness to women but you don't want to do
them?
> > 2. You have to determine exactly where you are falling short
> > of what most women want. For a 35-year-old virgin this is likely
> > to be a very painful step.
>
> Ok, I assume you are speaking of someone else. I am not a virgin.
> One doesn't have to of ever had a girlfriend to not be a virgin. When
> I said girlfriend, I didn't mean sex partner, just to let you know.
If you go to see a doctor, you have to tell him exactly what is wrong
with you. If you withhold relevant information, he might end up
treating the wrong disease.
There is a very large difference between not having a particular
kind of relationship with any woman vs. not ever having sex. When
you say "never married, not dating, never had a girlfriend" most
people are probably going to assume you have never had sex with
a woman.
> And your commenting this way definitely shows the difference between
> men and women regarding this.
Yes, a man cuts to the chase whereas a woman is more likely to
talk in circles.
> Men want to get laid, women want a
> relationship. Do you reduce girlfriend to mean sex partner?
That's not within my power. A woman determines what "girlfriend" means.
Relationships aren't necessarily bad things. It's orders of
magnitude easier to get laid with a girlfriend than with some
woman you haven't met yet.
> > 3. You have to come up with a scheme for addressing the deficiencies
> > you can address.
> >
> > 4. You need a procedure for meeting a lot of women and
> > making the best initial impression that you can.
>
> As I believe I explained (if I hadn't I will now), I am in an area
> where there aren't many places where a lot of single women meet.
Is there any other kind of area? That's why I said you have to
meet a lot of women. In my experience, I have to meet anywhere
from 10 to 20 women to find just one who is not already in a
relationship and is at least somewhat attractive.
The only way you are likely to find concentrations of available
women would be to relax whatever requirements you might have for
a woman. Either that or you would have to hire someone (or perhaps
an agency) to find available women.
> Supposed singles functions fizzle out due to lack of turnout.
Singles functions tend to be doomed to failure for obvious
reasons:
1. Most people don't stay single for very long, so there aren't
likely to be many "regulars" who would stick around to organize
the events.
2. The people who do stay single for a long time tend to be
unattractive to most members of the opposite sex (which is why
they remain single for a long time). Any organization catering
to singles will tend to drive participants away if its events
feature too many unattractive regulars.
The people with the greatest need for "singles functions"
tend to be precisely those people who will make most people
uncomfortable at such events, so it's no wonder that such
events tend to run down pretty quickly.
A person of average attractiveness doesn't need
"singles functions" to meet his or her next romantic partner
through simple daily activities. It's just a matter of meeting
and talking to a large number of prospects. Given that only
about 1 in 10 women you might find attractive are available,
you may have to introduce yourself to hundreds of women and
talk to them long enough at least to find out if they are
available and looking. That is a lot of conversations to strike
up. So obviously the most important skill you can have is the
ability to strike up a conversation with anybody at any time.
> And it
> doesn't help that I don't know any other single guys I can go out and
> do the lead and wingman routine with. When I go out alone, it just
> doesn't work.
Yes, most of the time it doesn't work. But even when it's "not
working" it's working in the sense that you are doing the dirty
work of meeting and talking to a lot of women.
You may have to meet 500 women to find your partner. Don't think
of meeting 500 women as a waste of effort. It's probably necessary.
There may not be any practical shortcut for you.
It's like the way an aspiring basketball player has to practice
shooting, dribbling, etc. He might rather be playing actual
basketball but there's a bunch of preliminary stuff he has to
grind through. Even though all the practice may seem boring,
it's actually getting him closer to his ultimate goal.
Think of it this way. When the right woman comes along, what
will you say to her? You could very well blow your chance if
you haven't practiced by talking to dozens of other women
earlier. Don't be like the basketballer who gets to the
playoffs never having dribbled.
> This is what I am faced with. It does put things in an
> ackward light if there are multiple women who go out together.
Absolutely. When women go out in groups and remain in their
groups, that means they generally don't want to meet men. You
should focus your efforts on women who are alone. Hitting on
women who are in a group is an advanced skill.
If few women are alone, that simply means you have to be ready
at all times to converse with the ones who are.
> As I
> said, this area where I am consists of mostly married people. And
> they don't know anyone.
To a first approximation, nobody ever seems to know anyone, at
least in my experience. In my experience, the best way to
find women is to meet them yourself.
> > 5. You need to consider what you want in a woman and determine
> > whether you have a realistic shot of attracting a woman who has
> > everything you want. Very few people can attract a partner they
> > consider ideally attractive. Most people have to settle for a
> > partner they consider less than ideally attractive, and the
> > longer a person goes without succeeding, the less he or she
> > must usually settle for eventually. It's like getting busted back
> > to the minor leagues in baseball. A player who fails at a given
> > level moves down to the next lower level, and so on, until he
> > finds a level where he can play ball.
>
> The thing here is that if a woman reads you are just "settling" for
> them, they typically won't be interested.
Most women only have to look in a mirror to know that whatever
man they end up with had to have settled.
Granted, most women are egomaniacs so you should just let them
believe whatever they want to believe.
There are some truths so horrible that hardly anybody can face
them.
> That has been my experience.
It's not like you should make a public announcement "I AM SETTLING!"
Regardless of how less-than-ideal you find a woman, you should still
let her believe she is your Queen Of Everything. Which won't be a
problem, because it's easy to let people believe what they want to
believe.
Don't tell her you settled until you decide it's time to dump her.
If that seems dishonest, don't worry. You're never the only
dishonest person in a relationship.
> > Richard, before you spend one dime on any counselor, insist on
> > meeting several of said counselor's satisfied clients. Ideally,
> > you'd like some solid before/after evidence. Look for a counselor
> > who has advised men who were in similarly dire straits---resorting
> > to appeals to Usenet for help with the 35-year-old virginitis
> > problem.
>
> You aren't getting this, are you?
Virginitis, girlfrienditis, whateveritis. Don't pay for counseling
unless the counselor can demonstrate he has cured what ails you.
> > Then, if possible, meet the men after treatment and above all meet
> > their new wives/girlfriends/groupies. If a counselor has a track record
> > of helping men like Richard Hutnik attract women like the women
> > Richard wants to attract, then consider retaining that counselor.
> > Ideally you'd like to pay for RESULTS, not for just the counseling.
> > I.e., if you don't attract the woman you want, you shouldn't have
> > to pay the counselor anything.
> >
> > If a counselor can show no evidence of usefully assisting any man
> > in your condition, DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY.
>
> You are correct on this one point here, regarding the track record.
> My experience is that the councelors are such generalists with things
> is that their entire purpose is to make people happy and content, not
> lead to successful change.
A person's attractiveness to the opposite sex is so tied up with who and
what he or she is that to make a significant change would basically
require a person to become a different person---to the point where
your friends and family would have difficulty recognizing you (either
from an appearance change or from a personality change, or both).
Counselors work only with words, so it's not easy for them to
redesign a person into some completely different person. They
just aren't working with the right toolkit.
The kinds of changes that would make a difference---for example,
becoming a rock star---are not the kinds of changes a person can
be "counseled" into. There is not really any set formula whereby
an average man becomes a rock star. The process is mysterious and
it's not really teachable right now.
> > From what I have read, usually counselors will not try to teach
> > you anything useful about picking up chicks. Instead they will
> > only try to help you live with your current misery. The counselor
> > profits not from solving your problem, but from making you dependent
> > on the counselor for more counseling sessions.
>
> This is correct, regarding the happiness thing. People aren't looking
> for change, they are looking to be happy. Thus, there is an entire
> industry that deals with making people happy. The same goes for
> financial. Someone has a problem with emotional issues dealing with
> money, no one handles it.
We'll revisit this below.
> > > Finding a counselor/therapist in itself is a lot like dating -- but
> > > without the sexual pressure. You may find you have little social phobias
> > > holding you back, and even the exercise of finding a counselor may be
> > > liberating.
> >
> > The exercise will certainly liberate a lot of money from your wallet.
>
> My exercising (gym membership) costs about $45 a month. Pretty
> inexpensive actually.
If you go to a gym, that's good. Can't you meet any women there?
I've met women at most gyms I've been to. Not a lot, but gyms are
among the best places to meet women. You immediately have one thing
in common with everybody in the gym, and that can be the starting
point for conversation.
Some gyms have more women than others. If you are in a mostly-male
gym, you might want to visit other gyms if you live in a city large
enough to offer a choice.
> > Annette, have you seen a counselor?
> > Did the counselor help you get your gluttony under control?
>
> Now, that is a cheap shot.
True, but it's also a serious question which speaks to your earlier
point:
People aren't looking for change, they are looking to be
happy. Thus, there is an entire industry that deals with making
people happy.
I would replace "to be happy" with "to feel good about themselves"
regardless of whether their present life choices are expedient or
destructive.
If a person is a glutton and is thereby degrading her health and
much of her potential attractiveness to men by being obese, then it
would be interesting to know how a counselor would handle that.
Would a counselor address the real problem---gluttony which
leads to obesity---or would the counselor dance around the real
problem and simply try to help the obese glutton feel better
about herself as she continues to self-destruct?
There is a term which describes helping people with problems feel
better about themselves while making no effort to break out of their
real problems. It's called "enabling."
The counselor has a problem, of course, in that he's taking money
from the client. The client probably isn't going to pay the counselor
to tell him or her any unpleasant truths. Thus if the counselor is
to get paid he will have to lie to the client, or at least prevaricate.
This speaks to your earlier question about the possible utility of
counseling for someone in your condition. Suppose a counselor has
advice for you which would work, but which you might consider insulting.
Would you pay the counselor to insult you?
This is something one could expect because the whole process of
hitting on women is *inherently* insulting. You basically have to
bare your soul for someone else's judgement. And most often that
judgement won't be entirely favorable.
> > A counselor doesn't get paid to actually solve anybody's real problem.
> > A counselor gets paid by making sure the client keeps coming back
> > for more counseling.
>
> Reminds me of one said "marriage councellor" I spoke to. Wanted to
> charge around $400+ a month so I could sit around and talk. Wowie,
> group sessions.
I heard somewhere that 90% of married couples who seek counseling
end up divorced. I wonder how many marriage counselors offer a
money-back guarantee?
> > The counselor's best profit comes from helping the client feel
> > good during the counseling session, with the effect wearing off
> > soon after the client leaves. That's the same racket which every
> > church runs. People go to church, listen to a bunch of comforting
> > lies, enjoy some social interaction, and then in another week
> > they need another hit.
>
> At least through church, MAYBE there is a chance to get a sermon that
> speaks to one issue or another, and may lead to behavior change.
If a sermon gets a drunkard to stop drinking, that's positive.
> Good
> old moralizing sermon will do that. I would rate this higher than the
> talking head Rogerian types who are emulated in an Elisa program.
>
> An interested note is that people actually have been helped by an
> Elisa program.
How many? I ran an Elisa program once and all it gave me was
gibberish.
I read that famous transcript of the Elisa program run in which
the program seemed to show insight, but from what I understand that
was an extremely anomalous run. Most users just get gibberish from
the original Elisa program.
> - Richard Hutnik
-- the Danimal
banhappinesspills
I majored in accounting and economics. never took a course in
sociology or anthropology . I bet they can teach a course in sociology
without even mentioning that we live in a pecking order where the last
person in the peck order in basically pecked to death psychologically.
If you want the cold truth, pay attention to my posts. Most important,
i am not interested in your ideas. i have never met anyone 1 percent
as smart as me.
Lady Veteran
All those brains do no good if you do not possess the ability to interact with
people. You will not be able to function without being able to do so adequately
unless you want to be a hermit like Ted Whatisname.
You are right about the pecking order BTW
LV
Lady Veteran
-----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
-Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
------------------------------------------------
It's better to die on your feet than live on
your knees. - Delores Ibarruri
-------------------------------------------
"Ah yes, we must mollify angry fanatics who
seek our destruction because otherwise .. they
might get mad and seek our destruction."
- Ann Coulter 9/26/2002
--------------------------------------------
The real Lady Veteran does not use anonymous
remailers. If you read something that looks
like it is from Lady Veteran and the originator
is an anonymous remailer-it is a FORGERY by
certain diseases called trolls. The REAL Lady Veteran has nothing to hide and
is not ashamed to stand up and be counted for her
beliefs as a straight, honest and decent woman.
-----------------------------------------------
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Dave
things aren't coming out of someone naturally then ppl (eg: women) will pick
up on this. You're right with the humor. I find this humor thing so one
dimensional but it works every time. Be humorous and you will not only get
laid but maybe pull a meaningful relationship outta it... Why do womens
minds work on such a meaningless dimension? Shit, this newsgroups making me
sexist... :-) BTW If you know all about this and have so much experience,
why r u on this newsgroup?
"The Danimal" <dmo...@mfm.com> wrote in message
news:cac1ad88.03050...@posting.google.com...
Dave
news:<37bc9e37.03050...@posting.google.com>...
> > I am going to comment here. You reached certain conclusions that are
> > not correct. The aroma of arrogance also in your email needs to be
> > addressed also.
>
> No, no, no! I'm giving you some practice at deflecting mild
> criticism.
>
> If you think I'm harsh, try going out and talking to women.
Exactly, you gotta take criticism and he's right; that is nothing compared
to the scorn of a woman. It is less painfull to get beaten up by a gang of
hoods, especially to your pride. When I go out on dates they tell me about
the other guys they've dated and their opinions and boy are they harsh!!!!!
For all those years as a kid I heard what bastards men are, well I know what
the truth is now....
>
> I don't know everything there is to know about picking up women,
> but I will tell you this: if a bit of mild criticism rattles your
> cage, you'd better stick to safer pursuits.
>
<snip>
Dave
Unfortunately your last sentence just revealed how smart you really are.
Richard Hutnik
> > I am going to comment here. You reached certain conclusions that are
> > not correct. The aroma of arrogance also in your email needs to be
> > addressed also.
>
> No, no, no! I'm giving you some practice at deflecting mild
> criticism.
I don't need this practice. I get this at work.
> If you think I'm harsh, try going out and talking to women.
>
> I don't know everything there is to know about picking up women,
> but I will tell you this: if a bit of mild criticism rattles your
> cage, you'd better stick to safer pursuits.
>
> The basic mechanism is this: a lot of women will, upon meeting
> a man, toss a few minor disparaging remarks in his direction. It's
> not always in an overtly mean way. It's a kind of teasing that
> women do, to see how a man will handle it.
Actually I don't get that. I usually get a "gee it was nice to meet
you" and then they disappear.
> The worst way to handle it is to frown and scowl and get defensive
> or upset or begin blasting away with self-endorsements, as if your
> sacred honor has been violated and you are extremely uptight about
> it.
>
> The best way I've found to handle it is to respond with some
> mild self-deprecating humor, which shows that you don't take yourself
> too seriously, but at the same time you want to leave the woman
> with the impression that you're kidding when you say something
> negative about yourself. For example, don't admit to any real
> faults, but instead it's safe to belittle yourself slightly about
> something the woman can clearly see you are good at.
Thing is that you don't know about my background, so what you are
telling me doesn't fit. A lot of what you said doesn't fir my
situation, in fact.
> It's kind of like being obviously over-the-top in the wrong
> direction, but like anything else you don't want to overdo it.
>
> You'll know you've struck the right balance when the woman counters
> your self-deprecating remark with an endorsement of you. If that
> happens, then you've moved her away from disparaging you to praising
> you.
If I had a context that would fit your advice, I would appreciate it
now. But I really don't. I do thank the effort though.
- Richard Hutnik
banhappinesspills
I wish you had read my second to last sentence, but that would be too
much to hope for.:(
DaKitty
DaKitty
maybe he wasn't interested in that one.
DaKitty
Geeez, you're so far off, I can't even respond in an intelligent way.
Sarah
people? Have you tried anything like this http://4ftv/Love.html ?
New hobbies? Taking a class at school traditionally attended by
women? Sorry if I missed some of the previous notes. The thread was
pretty long.
Sarah
Eleonore Beaudoin
--
Sharon B
wrote:
>Sharon B <sha...@lart.com> wrote in message news:<gdc7bv0iujbussohf...@4ax.com>...
>> On 3 May 2003 00:56:42 -0700, charl...@yahoo.com (banhappinesspills)
>> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>> >It is a supply and demand issue. Breeding females are always in short
>> >supply because of the harem and double-dipping factor. You should save
>> >up your money and go to the philippines and meet a girl there. There
>> >are lots of spanish looking girls there. You have zero chance of
>> >finding anything worthwhile in n america.
>>
>> Are you a soc.fr00t?
>
>I majored in accounting and economics. never took a course in
>sociology or anthropology . I bet they can teach a course in sociology
>without even mentioning that we live in a pecking order where the last
>person in the peck order in basically pecked to death psychologically.
>If you want the cold truth, pay attention to my posts.
Are you the Arbitrer of Truth?
>Most important,
>i am not interested in your ideas.
That's good, especially as I didn't express any, Mr.Reading Not For
Comprehension. Do you often write a paragraph response to a simple
'yes' or 'no' question without ever actually getting around to the
answer? Are you, or are you not a soc.fr00t?
>i have never met anyone 1 percent
>as smart as me.
Mmm hmmm. Post your IQ scores, sparky. I don't play in the support
ngs, so if you're going to continue this blossoming net.kookery of
yours, you'll have to abide by the f/ups.
--
Member of The Committee for Aesthetic Deletions
Overseer of Prejudicial Eliminations
Judge Advocate Very Large Number of Cohorts
1st Virginia Volunteers Official Cohort #11
CEsium Brigade
-r0ck
Universal License to Subject President
Human Beings to Indignities The Barefoot & Proud SharonB fanclub
Temporary License #11 Washington DC Chapter
Member of The Feminist Junta
Annette M. Stroud
banhappinesspills <charl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Dave" <mynonspa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:<hw%sa.1354$_o4.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
>> "banhappinesspills" <charl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:b3f99f5c.03050...@posting.google.com...
>> > sociology or anthropology . I bet they can teach a course in sociology
>> > without even mentioning that we live in a pecking order where the last
>> > person in the peck order in basically pecked to death psychologically.
If chickens would only learn to make lateral alliances...
>> > If you want the cold truth, pay attention to my posts. Most important,
>> > i am not interested in your ideas. i have never met anyone 1 percent
>> > as smart as me.
>>
>> Unfortunately your last sentence just revealed how smart you really are.
>
>I wish you had read my second to last sentence, but that would be too
>much to hope for.:(
I'm fairly sure he did read that sentence. It probably paved the way for
weighing and evaluating the last sentence.
I am impressed that you majored in accounting and economics and appear not
to know what "1 percent" means.
Annette
dizzy
wrote:
>It's not normal, but then again, it's not rare anymore for men. Women have
>never been shallower, so there are a lot of us out there.
IF they are indeed "shallow", it's due to the REAL problem, which is
that there's simply more men than women in that age group. I know
many quality single guys (some divorced, some widowed, some never
married), and many of them don't even try any more, because all the
quality women are taken.
On the other hand, it's very rare to find a quality woman who can't
get guy with very little effort. Indeed, it's very hard to find one
that's not already taken.
dizzy
wrote:
>It is a supply and demand issue. Breeding females are always in short
>supply because of the harem and double-dipping factor. You should save
>up your money and go to the philippines and meet a girl there. There
>are lots of spanish looking girls there. You have zero chance of
>finding anything worthwhile in n america.
I think this is right on. Get yourself an asian cutey.
mathew
i was in same boat as you my friend ive taken up a hobby gets me
out. thought of travel my friend meet new people check this site out.
http://www.virtualtourist.com/vt/1/
good look.
Davo
"dizzy" <di...@nospan.com> wrote in message
news:rrbabvcmvh621cgmp...@4ax.com...
Very good point dizzy, sad realisation for men. Even with all the guys who
turn gay there is still like a 1 to 4 ratio of women to men available. I
don't know why this is so though because more women are born in the world
then men. Does this mean that the greater majority of women born are duds
that no-one notices??? EG - what happens to this surplus of women? Maybe we
should be encouraging more men to convert to homosexuality, to take up the
slack?????
Richard Hutnik
> I'd say it's a little not normal. Where all are you trying to meet
> people? Have you tried anything like this http://4ftv/Love.html ?
> New hobbies? Taking a class at school traditionally attended by
> women? Sorry if I missed some of the previous notes. The thread was
> pretty long.
>
> Sarah
My area doesn't have a lot of singles in it. Thus, the typical
classes, etc... end up with married women, which instantly
disqualifies them from the dating thing, in my value system.
I was mainly asking if what I have gone through would be typical, and
what type of individual would be best to talk to regarding this. My
initial post explained the weirdness I have gone through. Even now, I
am keeping in touch with one woman I met through match.com with whom
there wasn't a match, but we are able to talk about things.
As for the thread getting longe, I think it is because people feel
like dumping their hopes, dreams, opinions and issues they have hear.
This thread also has jumped to multiple other newsgroups from where I
initially posted.
- Richard Hutnik
Richard Hutnik
So, are you a member of Mensa? I hear it is a running joke amongst
Mensa members that they shouldn't be permitted to breed with each
other.
By the way, you realize that a complete idiot may possess a useful
idea you never thought of, so your downplaying what others say shows
you are probably more interested in thinking you are correct than
being wise. This likely means that you probably aren't as wise or
smart as you think you are.
- Richard Hutnik
Richard Hutnik
Dave" <mynonspa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<lNOsa.919$_o4.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> My two cents worth - probably all it is worth....
>
> Richard, I can empathise with you but have trouble trying to read between
> the lines and work out exactly what your problem is? Is it depression? Is it
> some personality disorder? I am in similar ground, I was single and
> virginal until 32. Incredible what this can do to ones self esteem in this
> society, things can really barrel roll.... I met a nice girl and stayed
> together for a few years. Was great - got my confidence up and have been
> single since then but fine and happy and go dating occaisionally and still
> trying to find the right one now. The big things that keep me on the right
> track despite my position is hapiness, confidence and determination. But
> enough 'bout me...
The burden of virginity into my late 20s got so great, and became a
focus of conversations that I couldn't take it any more. The fact
that the normal way people lose their virginity (a date getting out of
hand when you end up naked) never materialized, that after a really
bad date (first date, she brings her 5 year old son along, and was as
dumb as a brink, to be blunt), I went to see a "sex care work" in a
massager parlor, thinking at least AIDS would give my life a purpose.
I had survived that. Yes, it got that bad with me.
> Your Problem (my assumption):
>
> 1. You have been single all your life...
>
> This makes things really hard, I know. I'm fairly attractive, intelligent,
> fit, healthy and sociable and I had the same problem. The biggest problem
> with this is that it will drain all your confidence and happines if you
> don't deal with it well. The catch 22 is that in this state you will NEVER
> be able to find a decent girl. Women want ppl who are happy, confident and
> the big secret FUNNY! Just because you are in this unfortunate position it
> does not mean you need therapy or medical advice unless there is another
> problem. I think you would be lucky if therapy / medical advice did help
> you but you never know.
The being single problem is that I didn't get the supposed
"socializing" experience that was needed in high school. I think an
weird quirk of this is that I likely have read more books on this
subject, and have more useful wisdom than people get just dating, so
that I am able to see beyond what most others struggle with, but also
will miss very basic things. Being this late in the game, 35, means I
don't know the rules of engagement either. Oh well.
> My Advice (not in any specific order):
> 1. Don't listen to any one persons advice, particularly through the internet
> and nesgroups inparticular, including mine.... :-)
Ok, I will snip the rest of your post :-). I realized this quite
awhile ago, that most people are full of crap and clueless when it
comes to relationship stuff. People dumb luck their way into it by
probability, and probably put up with a lot of stuff because they
don't have much of a choice. Those who try to liberate themselves
into something better by leaving bad relationships behind, end up
doing worse for themselves. I guess I posted to see if what I had
gone through was typical, and if anyone had any clues as to what kind
of counsellor would be appropriate to talk to.
> 2. Learn to be happy with what you have got (there are many worse of) but
> don't lose your zest for what you desire. Maybe your religeon is not serving
> you properly as this is what they are there for. Maybe look into other
> religeons or forms of spirituality or philosophy. Or speak to your priest...
I find this is good for a whole life management thing, but doesn't
really address a single area. One problem I have with forming my own
is that I have compatibility problems with women. I had several
possible things that could of develop fail, because my belief system
didn't line up. Tough to be in the Christian religion when I am my
own denomination. Hmm... I wonder if I can track down the Jesse
Ventura interview he gave for Playboy, where he spoke on organized
religion.
> 3. Take up hobbies that you will enjoy that will increase your social group
> or chances of meeting women and confidence/happiness
My area suffers for this. The demographics mean married women.
Excuse me if I snip here and there....
> 5. Make sure your standards for a partner are realistic, even though Micheal
> Douglas is going out with Catherine Zeta this is a very rare case and very
> few other old crusty farts are that lucky, he's a movie star anyway... :-)
> BTW Very few ppl are with the person of their dreams, the familiarity over
> time is what does it.
Sheesh, is it too much to ask for someone who likes me, interested in
me, and I am physically attracted to? I don't require a model, just
perhaps a certain look.
> 8. Do not rely on someone else to make you happy - this must come from
> within.
I am aware of this. I have read enough wisdom literature. Sheesh, I
should be giving advice, instead of asking for it.
> Give it time (EG: months)!
>
> Finally, once all this is in place, if things are still bad (I am assuming
> you are depressed if you are asking 'bout seeing therapists) then consider
> seeing a professional. My personal opion is that councellors and anyone less
> then a qualified psychiatrist are useless. And try not to go onto the drugs
> that they will immediately try to give you - they ARE BAD. Excuse my
> sceptisism in this area but really,what the fuck could they know????
>
> In short, get happy with yourself and your life and your position (there are
> some advantages to being single...), get confident, don't give up!!!!
>
> NOW, if this helps then you owe me approximately $1,000 (hey, my advice is
> cheaper and healthier then a professionals and it will fix all areas of your
> life) and being a programmer you can afford it so please donate it to a fund
> that aids suffering people for me.... And not pathetic sufferers like us,
> I'm talking about REAL suffering people, like those with all their limbs
> blown off in a war or AIDs victims in Africa, or disease ridden children in
> India. Wake up Richard, you really are lucky!!!!!
That is the going rate? I think I will end entering the councelling
business! Hey, I need to look at it this. If I have the unique
ability to not develop romatic relationships, I could end up being a
councellor and raking in bucks helping you. All I need to do is
become a minister or PhD and end up writing books. Heck, if Dr. Phil
can just talk straight with obvious truth, so can
Maybe I ought to become some guru somewhere. Zen Master Ricardo will
lead you to the path of fame, fortune, and happiness, or at least get
you content you have none of those, particularly the fortune. Heck
charge the bucks.
Bluster and bullship. Yep, dat's da ticket!
- Richard Hutnik
By the way people, I am asking about the dating area. This IS not I
need to focus my attention somewhere else to feel better.
Annette M. Stroud
>what type of individual would be best to talk to regarding this. My
>initial post explained the weirdness I have gone through. Even now, I
>am keeping in touch with one woman I met through match.com with whom
>there wasn't a match, but we are able to talk about things.
Why wasn't there a match? What precluded it from being a match? That's
worth examining, too.
The people I meet and end up with always surprise me.
Annette
Charlotte L. Blackmer
I'd say.
>I am impressed that you majored in accounting and economics and appear not
>to know what "1 percent" means.
Maybe he did his public stint at Anderson. Although the "economics" part
of it might explain a lot.
Charlotte (also, erm, similarly impressed)
Melanie
"Annette M. Stroud" <ast...@nyx10.nyx.net> wrote in message
news:10520723...@irys.nyx.net...
You're lucky! lol the people I meet always turn around... and go back to
where they came from! lol
oh well!
Sarah Munchel
example. Same with highly industrialized areas.
I know some single parents who struggle with meeting people too; mainly
because of time constraints.
Still, don't give up. Take up some sort of activity that maximizes your
chances of meeting what few women may be available in your area. Take a
class at a local community college that's known for having lots of girls...
Finance!
--
Sarah
http://4ftv.com/Love.html
"Richard Hutnik" <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:37bc9e37.03050...@posting.google.com...
banhappinesspills
Your contribution to this discussion is worthless.As an accountant , I
am qualified to put a value on intangible assets. Get lost, troll.:(
Richard Hutnik
She said she didn't detect any romantic chemistry when we met (I can't
say I had either). My discussions have been more of help for her to
sort things out in advice giving mode than much else.
- Richard Hutnik
Annette M. Stroud
Richard Hutnik <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>ast...@nyx10.nyx.net (Annette M. Stroud) wrote in message
>news:<10520723...@irys.nyx.net>...
>> worth examining, too.
>She said she didn't detect any romantic chemistry when we met (I can't
>say I had either). My discussions have been more of help for her to
>sort things out in advice giving mode than much else.
Lack of chemistry in the beginning doesn't kill the chances of a match for
me. Anti-chemistry does.
But the chemistry factor is something I don't think you can overcome; it
just is. Unless pheromones would help.
Annette
Unsung
> "dizzy" <di...@nospan.com> wrote in message
> news:rrbabvcmvh621cgmp...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 2 May 2003 18:27:06 +1000, "Darkfalz" <dark...@xis.com.au>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >It's not normal, but then again, it's not rare anymore for men. Women
> have
> > >never been shallower, so there are a lot of us out there.
> >
> > IF they are indeed "shallow", it's due to the REAL problem, which is
> > that there's simply more men than women in that age group. I know
> > many quality single guys (some divorced, some widowed, some never
> > married), and many of them don't even try any more, because all the
> > quality women are taken.
> >
> > On the other hand, it's very rare to find a quality woman who can't
> > get guy with very little effort. Indeed, it's very hard to find one
> > that's not already taken.
> >
>
> Very good point dizzy, sad realisation for men. Even with all the guys who
> turn gay there is still like a 1 to 4 ratio of women to men available. I
> don't know why this is so though because more women are born in the world
> then men.
That's not exactly true. The statistics I've seen indicate that for
every 1000 females born, 1006 males are born. That might not sound
like a big disparity, but stretch that number over millions or
billions of people, and there is a huge gap.
There are roughly the same number of men and women on the planet,
however, that's mainly because women live longer than men.
According to the 1993 U.S. Census, for every 100 single women over the
age of 65, there are only 30 single men who are over the age of 65.
However, in just about every age group under the age of 40, single men
greatly outnumber single women. For every 100 single women under the
age of 25, there are 111 single men under the age of 25. For every 100
single women who are between the ages of 25 and 29, there are 128
single men who are between the ages of 25 and 29.
Thus, it is inevitable that some guys are simply going to be left out
in the cold if they aren't very aggressive or don't really have a lot
going for them. Since there are so many more single men than women,
its not really surprising that a lot of women can be as picky and
choosy as they want.
Davo
"Richard Hutnik" <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:37bc9e37.03050...@posting.google.com...
I think you hit it on the head a couple of times Richard - the answer has
been staring at you in the face all along!!!! I am not koing when I say
this: BECOME A PRIEST!!!! You will not longer feel like and outcast, as
being priest is a good excusefor not having family, girlfriend etc, and will
have side benefits such as:
1. Increase your "whole life" happines, as mentioned above
2. Ladies are attracted to men in uniform
3. You will meet many, many more women
4. You will be able to pursue the "giving counselling" area you mentioned
above and help other lonely people
5. There are way too many more advantages for me to continue
This is it Richard, I feel this is the right step for you to take!!!!!
You seem a little negative and not listening to my previous advice (seems
like you want a pill that will make it all better for you) and you may not
like thie above idea either so I have two more that may work:
1. Become gay, you will have way more opportunties to meet others and single
gay men are not uncommon so you wont feel like one of societies outcasts. If
you are really repelled by this idea you may be able to seek transvestites
or cross dressers to alleviate the repulsion you may feel.
2. I don't know whether you are too old for a sex change but if you get one
you will then be able to go around rejecting men such as yourself and get
the last laugh.
Please get back to me on these ideas, I have more but I feel one of these
will work for you.
DaKitty
"Eleonore Beaudoin" <bc...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:b92ron$soe$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
mode most of the time is equal to lying and faking it.... That's a psych
concept that can be talked about at great length. Not something I can do in
this forum, not much time for very long posts.
mathew
check this out http://www.pickupguide.com/layguide/
Davo
"DaKitty" <conn...@cb-design.net> wrote in message
news:Y6nta.1082$Pc5.1074@fed1read01...
Don't agree with you there, "over analysis...." Is just the "chip on your
shoulder" concept me thinks.....
Davo
"Unsung" <cleanmy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:798d9caa.03050...@posting.google.com...
Ah, interesting good stats. My stats (more women born then men) come from my
regeon. The 4 to 1 ratio come from some online dating agencies that
according to your stats don't relate so bad into the "real" world, some
comfort involved there..... It is not unfair for women to pick and chose,
men do when they can also - this is fair. What is hard for men is the having
to be "agressive" or "competitive" or "not yourself" to "pull" the girl. Is
un-natural yet sometimes necesary...
Darkfalz
> that there's simply more men than women in that age group. I know
> many quality single guys (some divorced, some widowed, some never
> married), and many of them don't even try any more, because all the
> quality women are taken.
>
> On the other hand, it's very rare to find a quality woman who can't
> get guy with very little effort. Indeed, it's very hard to find one
> that's not already taken.
Here are two funny but true sayings:
"Women are like internet domains; all the good ones are taken."
"You stand as much chance of meeting a nice girl these days than you do of
meeting any other mythical creature."
My name = Harvey
I was the only guy there, amongst a lot of women.
I should have kept going in that class, year after year.
I only did it for one term. It felt a bit strange, but after
a while, that strangeness wears out.
I think most? of the women had partners, etc?
I did want to take a liquid embroidery class - but
didn't get around to attending.
I'll guess there would have been mostly women in it?
This was many many years ago.
I should have kept on attending.
Harvey
In article <Zxita.56$dp1....@news.bc.tac.net>, lo...@4ftv.com says...
tom calwell
>Or Keep Fit - I did that once, for a YWCA class.
>I was the only guy there, amongst a lot of women.
try ymca or a gym to work out.
women can be found other places.
>I should have kept going in that class, year after year.
>I only did it for one term. It felt a bit strange, but after
>a while, that strangeness wears out.
>I think most? of the women had partners, etc?
>
>I did want to take a liquid embroidery class - but
>didn't get around to attending.
>I'll guess there would have been mostly women in it?
prolly.
>This was many many years ago.
>
>I should have kept on attending.
>
>Harvey
wtf is liquid embroidery?
rgds,
Tom
Richard Hutnik
I had asked her about the chemistry thing, and what would make for
romantic chemistry, and she said she didn't no. She said it is
something that just hits one day. Now, either that is a dodge, or
more likely, that she doesn't have a clue how the romantic area works
at all.
- Richard Hutnik
Richard Hutnik
> > > My area doesn't have a lot of singles in it. Thus, the typical
> > > classes, etc... end up with married women, which instantly
> > > disqualifies them from the dating thing, in my value system.
> > >
> > > I was mainly asking if what I have gone through would be typical, and
> > > what type of individual would be best to talk to regarding this. My
> > > initial post explained the weirdness I have gone through. Even now, I
> > > am keeping in touch with one woman I met through match.com with whom
> > > there wasn't a match, but we are able to talk about things.
> > >
> > > As for the thread getting longe, I think it is because people feel
> > > like dumping their hopes, dreams, opinions and issues they have hear.
> > > This thread also has jumped to multiple other newsgroups from where I
> > > initially posted.
> > >
> > > - Richard Hutnik
>
> check this out http://www.pickupguide.com/layguide/
What I find interesting is your post, as of the several different ones
guys have responded, have all dealt with sex. I am sure if you ask
women, this is secondary. They want other things first then the sex.
In case of the woman I met recently, this whole "getting sex" first
thing is exactly what she was turned off by. I am sure a lot of other
women are similar in this regard. They want to romantic love and
intimacy, not just "getting laid". They actually ideally want the
whole thing. In fact, this woman I had met also didn't understand how
a guy could just go and "get sex" without anything else involved. So,
this is what you are facing here.
Anyhow, getting sex is easy. Just set some money aside each month and
hire a woman. If you want it more regularly, and safer, go the
mailorder route and hire some woman from overseas to be a domestic
love mistress for you.
- Richard Hutnik
Davros
news:p6lcbvstc4oj50krs...@4ax.com...
> richar...@hotmail.com (Richard Hutnik) wrote:
> >lo...@4ftv.com (Sarah) wrote in message
news:<2cd5a55.03050...@posting.google.com>...
> >> I'd say it's a little not normal. Where all are you trying to meet >
>> people? Have you tried anything like this http://4ftv/Love.html ?
> >> New hobbies? Taking a class at school traditionally attended by > >>
women? Sorry if I missed some of the previous notes. The thread was > >>
pretty long.
> >>
> >> Sarah
> >
> >My area doesn't have a lot of singles in it. Thus, the typical >
>classes, etc... end up with married women, which instantly > >disqualifies
them from the dating thing, in my value system.
>
>
> >I was mainly asking if what I have gone through would be typical, and >
>what type of individual would be best to talk to regarding this. My >
>initial post explained the weirdness I have gone through. Even now, I
> >am keeping in touch with one woman I met through match.com with whom >
>there wasn't a match, but we are able to talk about things.
>
humiliation, and ripoff.
>
> if you're out there experiencing life everyday and not staying and >
working at home, most people come in face to face contact with several >
people a day.
>
I'm sorry, I have to disagree with this, I come in face to face contact
everyday with lots of people, but mainly professionally, and that also makes
things very difficult.
However having joined a free dating site, I have made a couple of really
nice friends in my area, and my business partner has also met someone
through this site, and they plan on marrying shortly.
As for the chemistry thing, maybe it might be an idea to disassociate the
emotional feelings to some extent, especially those associated with the
glamour of relationship, and look more to mutual respect, communication and
consideration and then allow the emotional chemistry to develop in what is
already a bonded friendship.
In other words, ignore looks, in terms of the outer shell, and find the
person inside, and let the chemistry come through that.
It's just a theory, but it might work.
Adrian
tom calwell
>> >> I'd say it's a little not normal. Where all are you trying to meet
>> >> people? Have you tried anything like this http://4ftv/Love.html ?
>> >> New hobbies? Taking a class at school traditionally attended by
>> >> women? Sorry if I missed some of the previous notes. The thread was
> >> >pretty long.
>> >
>> >My area doesn't have a lot of singles in it. Thus, the typical
>> >classes, etc... end up with married women, which instantly
>> >disqualifies them from the dating thing, in my value system.
>>
>> >I was mainly asking if what I have gone through would be typical, and
>> >what type of individual would be best to talk to regarding this. My
>> >initial post explained the weirdness I have gone through. Even now, I
>> >am keeping in touch with one woman I met through match.com with whom
>> >there wasn't a match, but we are able to talk about things.
>>
>> it seems to me like these dating services are somewhat of a waste,
>> humiliation, and ripoff.
>>
>> if you're out there experiencing life everyday and not staying and
>>working at home, most people come in face to face contact with several
>>people a day.
>>
>I'm sorry, I have to disagree with this, I come in face to face contact
>everyday with lots of people, but mainly professionally, and that also makes
>things very difficult.
difficulties in meeting people are somewhat of an illusion in the case
of romance I think, though.
there are people we all come in contact with everyday [unless we
choose to live as hermits].
>However having joined a free dating site, I have made a couple of really
>nice friends in my area, and my business partner has also met someone
>through this site, and they plan on marrying shortly.
congrats, adrian. but it doesn't usually work out this way; it's not
typical.
most people would have much better odds just opening up and extending
themselves in real life instead of wasting their time on the internet
or personals.
>As for the chemistry thing, maybe it might be an idea to disassociate the
>emotional feelings to some extent, especially those associated with the
>glamour of relationship, and look more to mutual respect, communication and
>consideration and then allow the emotional chemistry to develop in what is
>already a bonded friendship.
>
>In other words, ignore looks, in terms of the outer shell, and find the
>person inside, and let the chemistry come through that.
eh, just curious.
how do you define chemistry??
>It's just a theory, but it might work.
>Adrian
it's your theory and it seems to have worked for you.
best,
Tom
The Danimal
> I have nothing against masturbation.
I'm still trying to come to grips with it.
> Jocelyn Elders was a fine Surgeon General.
I wonder if Jocelyn Elders will still be alive when sex robots
become competitive with women? Society will need a Jocelyn
Elders to endorse sex robots as a vital tool in the fight against
HIV/AIDS. Someone who isn't afraid to speak the truth amid the
titters.
-- the Danimal
P.S. Why do people laugh at such things, anyway?
Soft Hyphen
> What I find interesting is your post, as of the several different ones
> guys have responded, have all dealt with sex. I am sure if you ask
> women, this is secondary. They want other things first then the sex.
But they'll want sex eventually, no way around that. For some of us,
that might be unnerving, if not outright paralyzing.
­
BrendaLee
The Danimal wrote:
>
> ast...@nyx10.nyx.net (Annette M. Stroud) wrote in message news:<10519717...@irys.nyx.net>...
> > I have nothing against masturbation.
>
> I'm still trying to come to grips with it.
Heh. You mean trying to get a hand-le on it?
>
> > Jocelyn Elders was a fine Surgeon General.
>
> I wonder if Jocelyn Elders will still be alive when sex robots
> become competitive with women? Society will need a Jocelyn
> Elders to endorse sex robots as a vital tool in the fight against
> HIV/AIDS. Someone who isn't afraid to speak the truth amid the
> titters.
I watched a movie a few days ago about this girl in college who would
get out a medical book of some sort and look at all the pictures of
genital diseases so she would not be tempted to go off with any guys at
the parties.
Little stringent on the body control.....
Dan, if your sexbots even give those that have HIV a viable outlet for
their sexuality they will have been put to good use.
There is nothing to lose here as I see it. I certainly don't feel
threatened. And I think they will have a good use for a great many
people.
>
> -- the Danimal
>
> P.S. Why do people laugh at such things, anyway?
Hard to say.
Sometimes people laugh at what they are afraid of.
Sometimes I laugh when I am nervous.
:)
BrendaLee
--
~~~~~~
BrendaLee
RFA President – The Lady DreamCatcher
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.cocreator.com/ehmka/
"Only unsuccessful people need to know who they are.
Successful people already know they will never know
who they are."
---Kevin Ehmka
Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise
will, sooner or later, have to find time for illness.
---Edward Stanley, Earl of Derby, 1873
Frans Buijsen
> Dan, if your sexbots even give those that have HIV a viable outlet for
> their sexuality they will have been put to good use.
Fidel Castro has interned all HIV-positives in one camp in Cuba. They
can be each other's sexbots.
--
Frans Buijsen
"It is true that science can be done in the space station. But science
can also be done dressed in a clown suit atop a large Ferris wheel."
-- The Economist
OB
Long as you paralyze in the right place, no problem.
BrendaLee
Frans Buijsen wrote:
>
> BrendaLee (eh...@rochester.rr.com):
> > Dan, if your sexbots even give those that have HIV a viable outlet for
> > their sexuality they will have been put to good use.
>
> Fidel Castro has interned all HIV-positives in one camp in Cuba. They
> can be each other's sexbots.
Hello Frans.
This is a good idea. But there are always those that would not wish to
be with others and yet still have the urge for release. For them a
sexbot would be a good deal.
I have seen three movies as of late that were about HIV-positive
people's lives.
It pains me to know that such a thing exists and is related to something
that I hold sacred.
Hard to watch, harder to even imagine.
:)BrendaLee
>
> --
> Frans Buijsen
> "It is true that science can be done in the space station. But science
> can also be done dressed in a clown suit atop a large Ferris wheel."
> -- The Economist
--
Richard Hutnik
Eventually may be after they marry, depending on their religious
values. What I am saying is that you need to address things first.
- Richard Hutnik
The Danimal
> "Davros" <dav...@EXspiritworld.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >"tom calwell" <tom_use...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> it seems to me like these dating services are somewhat of a waste,
> >> humiliation, and ripoff.
They have the potential to be a ripoff if you have to pay in
advance regardless of your results.
If the service operator has confidence in the product, the
operator should assume the risk.
But that would be like trying to get a physician to refund your
money if you die.
Isn't it interesting that if you go to a hospital, you have to
pay no matter what happens?
> >>if you're out there experiencing life everyday and not staying and
> >>working at home, most people come in face to face contact with several
> >>people a day.
> >>
> >I'm sorry, I have to disagree with this, I come in face to face contact
> >everyday with lots of people, but mainly professionally, and that also makes
> >things very difficult.
>
> difficulties in meeting people are somewhat of an illusion in the case
> of romance I think, though.
On the contrary, it can be costly to attempt to sexualize any
relationship which needs to continue on some other basis. For example,
if you must work closely with someone for the next N years, it would
be best to avoid initiating any sexual overtures unless you were
99.9999999% certain nothing could go wrong that would create a
problem you would then have to live with for a long time, or
remove yourself from at high cost.
By far the most appropriate venues for courting are recreational.
It's best to find activities with large numbers of prospects,
steady turnover, and an absence of a complex web of tight social
links between all participants. That way when you make an idiot of
yourself with one woman, you don't have to see her a lot, and she
doesn't undermine your chances with other women.
This means highly organized activities are not necessarily
better than less-organized activities. In an organized activity the
man on the prowl has the advantages of more time and potentially
more knowledge about the women there, but he also has fewer women
to select from and there is far less privacy.
Examples of less-organized activities would be public gatherings
where most of the crowd just shows up; popular outdoor recreational
attractions such as bike/blade/jogging trails; even bars and
clubs; etc. Recreational trails can be nice because a lot of women
exercise alone, but you should avoid pestering any woman who appears
uninterested. Just jog, bike, or skate around and smile and say hello
to every woman you fancy. If they smile back and return the greeting,
try saying something about the weather and go from there.
> there are people we all come in contact with everyday [unless we
> choose to live as hermits].
Sure, but most people only have extensive, easy contact with a
few people (their friends, close cow-orkers, etc.). Within that
small group of people, the odds are against having even one
person who meets one's laundry list of requirements for a romantic
partner. Sometimes it's hard to already be having frequent contact
with someone who meets even the basic age and gender requirements.
To expand the pool of acquaintance sufficiently requires a man
to initiate contact with many women he would otherwise never
talk to. That is, he must push himself into contact with women
he is not presently in contact with, even if they may be walking
by him now and then, oblivious to his presence.
This is not something people habitually do. Walk down the street
with a group of your friends. How many of the guys accost women
passersby and attempt to chat them up? It's fairly rare to see
anybody doing this.
People form long-term relationships because it's pretty nerve-wracking
to form new ones frequently.
> >However having joined a free dating site, I have made a couple of really
> >nice friends in my area, and my business partner has also met someone
> >through this site, and they plan on marrying shortly.
>
> congrats, adrian. but it doesn't usually work out this way; it's not
> typical.
I'm not sure what "typical" means here. The "average"
person's chances of walking across thin ice without breaking
through would be meaningless for a very heavy or very light
person. The average person's chances of dunking a basketball
wouldn't mean much to a midget or a 7-footer.
With dating services, *OBVIOUSLY* some people will have better
results than others, depending on (a) how attractive they are
to the people they want to attract, (b) how well their
attractiveness comes across in whatever medium the service
uses to advertise clients, and (c) what kinds of people they
are looking for.
An attractive woman might easily draw hundreds of replies on
a popular dating site, if she shows off what she's got with
photos and lists only general requirements that many men could
fit.
A nondescript or homely man might easily get zero, especially if
he implies he's looking for any sort of quality.
> most people would have much better odds just opening up and extending
> themselves in real life instead of wasting their time on the internet
> or personals.
How can you be sure? Personal ads have been around for a long
time in various forms. They seem to meet a need.
A dating service or site has obvious advantages if you get
responses. Everybody you meet will be looking for a partner.
That's an enormous improvement over real life where most attractive
people already have partners. Plus your advertisement does some
of the heavy lifting for you, if you have traits or requirements
that would rule out a large percentage of potential partners.
In real life you might have to screen through large numbers of
people yourself to find someone who might be compatible.
The drawbacks of dating services are, of course, many and obvious.
Since no individual service is likely to draw many participants
from a small geographic area, most people you might meet are
likely to live far away. There is also the issue of quality control:
since a dating service is easier than meeting people in real life,
it will tend to attract a disproportionate number of people who
have obvious attractiveness flaws (whether of looks, personality,
life circumstances, or all three) which make it hard for them to
attract people in real life. And the more flawed a person is,
the greater incentive he or she has to fudge a bit on the
self-description.
So you might end up having to travel significant distances to meet
people, only to discover they don't quite measure up to their
self-descriptions.
People try to fudge in real life too, but some things are harder
to fudge (for example, weight).
> >As for the chemistry thing, maybe it might be an idea to disassociate the
> >emotional feelings to some extent, especially those associated with the
> >glamour of relationship, and look more to mutual respect, communication and
> >consideration and then allow the emotional chemistry to develop in what is
> >already a bonded friendship.
> >
> >In other words, ignore looks, in terms of the outer shell, and
settle!
> >find the
> >person inside, and let the chemistry come through that.
>
> eh, just curious.
> how do you define chemistry??
It's the cool feeling I get when a woman looks good and is very
friendly toward me.
> >It's just a theory, but it might work.
> >Adrian
>
> it's your theory and it seems to have worked for you.
I like the implication of the word "it," as if two people are
talking about the same thing.
Imagine Yao Ming telling Verne Troyer how he dunks a basketball.
Yao: I dribble toward the basket, jump a little, and stuff the
ball in the basket. It works! Here, watch me.
Verne: Does it really work?
-- the Danimal
Sarah Munchel
will start Richard off on the wrong foot. The best way to run a girl off is
to convey even a shred of suspicion that all you're interested in is
"laying" her - unless she's a prostitute.
--
Sarah
http://4ftv.com/Love.html
"mathew" <bitte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:195db6a1.03050...@posting.google.com...
Sarah Munchel
--
Sarah
http://4ftv.com/Love.html
"Richard Hutnik" <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:37bc9e37.03050...@posting.google.com...
Sarah Munchel
"Annette M. Stroud" <ast...@nyx10.nyx.net> wrote in message
news:10519717...@irys.nyx.net...
> In article <b8vio...@drn.newsguy.com>,
> Crash Street Kidd <CrashSt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Annette was talking about Rogerian mirroring and
>
> Yes. Although I do like a pun.
>
> I have nothing against masturbation. Jocelyn Elders was a fine Surgeon
> General.
Really? Come on. he he heeeeeeeeeee!
>
> Annette
Varizo
> dmo...@mfm.com (The Danimal) wrote in message news:<cac1ad88.03050...@posting.google.com>...
> > If you think I'm harsh, try going out and talking to women.
It must be the sort of women you meet. Most women ive met talk to me
alrite, but i was never that intaressted in any of them until i met my
present GF.
But then ive never run after any girl and i dont ever intend to
either.
> Thing is that you don't know about my background, so what you are
> telling me doesn't fit. A lot of what you said doesn't fir my
> situation, in fact.
Dan is hardley ekwipped to talk about sucsessful relationships, hes
hardley the worlds exspert, {no ofence to Dan, but its true}, thats
why he wants a sexbot.
Ive got my own thereys on why ppl cant get wot they want from
relationships and one reason is parhaps that they let it mean too much
to them and so they start to get parranoid about it and that makes
them giv off *desperation* signals and that puts ppl off. I also think
that its got a lot to do with wots wrong with sociaty.
Personaly, i realy cant understand why it seems to be so *dificult*
for some ppl to find happiness. And i think that a lot of the problem
is cos its stereotypes looking for other stereotypes and bcause they
hav let themselves become stereotypes cos of the presurre of a
stereotyped sociaty.
So youve got females trying to be like *typickal* stereotyped females
and males doing the same at the opsite end of the specktrum, and the
*idea* behind the typickal stereotypes is that *neither of them can
*understand* the other*, and ppl cant see that thats wot causes the
problem in the first place.
I think it must be worse for ppl living in america, cos it looks like
thee s this strong femminnist movememnt over thaere, where most women
are suspisios of men and so men get defensiv cos of the womens
aggressiv atittude problems towards them, and so insted of being abel
to get on with each other, the two sexes hate each other deep down cos
of all the stupid stereotyping which says that to be seen as *normal*
theyve got to hate each other.
Ive often herard it said that two ppl of the same sex kno how to
please each othere sexsualy more, cos of being the same sex it means
they understand each others needs more than two ppl of the opposite
sex do. But i think this is one reason why me and my GF get on so
well, cos were not poles apart.
Kirsty might look pretty and very femminnin in apearance, but if
anybody thought that ment she was going to be some weak pathetick
wimpy sort of pushover for sombody who sees *pretty* or *femminnin* as
meaning *weak* in some way, then theyd hav a nasty shock. {And the
same goes for the woman i kno whos the artist. Anybody who upset her
too much would find that underneath the femminnin appearance, she can
be as fucking hard as nails and ruthless. And my GF is not as
sinnickal and contemptuos as her, but shes not some *stupid* typickal
shalow girly type either. Too many of them are, there thick and all
they can do is giggel and act stupid and would probaly scream in fear
at the least thing cos that is how sociaty exspects females to behave
cos it thinks that means there *normal* females and so the stereotypes
*learn* that stupid behaviour and thinkk htat there like it naturaly.
If my Gf was like the majorrity of *stupid* girls who might look
passabal but hav got no brains, then i would hav got fed up with her
by now, but even tho she looks atracktiv in a conventional girly way,
shes got a strong mind and strong personality, and i dont mean bossy
and dominerring cos i cant stand those sort either. {And i
*deffinitley* dont mean loudmouthed and screechy or id hav told her to
fuck off long ago}!
I was lisstning to some woman being interveiwed on the radio and she
was saying how she shaved her head and how it made her feel so much
stronger, and i just thought how fucking pathetick she was. Cos she
was just giving in to another stereotype. Hiding behind a ugly
aggressiv image {just like a lot of blokes do} cos they feel its
*safer*, me and my GF are both strong enough in ourselves and our
minds to not hav to go about with repullsiv shaved heads and tattoed
faces or somthing equaly daft to *prove* that were not weak. If
anybody tried to intimidate us, theyd find that we wouldent be easy
for them to push around cos we wont stand for it, {im not talking bout
physickal violence, im talking bout how some ppl try to force there
personality over sombody else, cos they might think that person has
got a more weak personality cos of how they look, and theyd be wrong
if they thougth that cos me and my Gf both look pretty and girly that
we,d be easy to push around theyd find out diffrent if they tried it.
And wot im saying as well is that cos im pretty and i look wot sociaty
thinks of as looking girly, ive got a intrest in things that girls
like , like lipgloss and some eye makeup, and having nice long hair
and looking after it and so i understand all that sort of thing and
can share that intaresst w my GF, insted of wot a lot of boys are like
who think its just *stupid girls stuff*, but cos Kirtsy is not a
typickal stupid *wimpy* girl underneath her girly appearance, but
loves horror fims, spesialy the realy gruesom ones which some girls
are too pathetick and wimpy to cope with, {she likes ones that i cant
watch even} and cos shes got a bit of a wicked sence of humour and is
quite strong physickaly and has got a strong naturre , then we are
both complementing each other, and we are v similar ppl to each other
so we understand each other a lot better than wot a typickal
stereotyped male and a typickal stereotyped female would understand
each other, cos the very fact that they *are* typickal stereotypes
means that they *dont* realy understand each other. Its alrite for
some ppl to say, oh they are like oposite ends of a magnet or some
crap like that and so they complement each other cos there conplete
oposites, cos the fact is that that just dont work, its why they moan
about each other and get fed up with each other , cos there too
diffrent to each other, and dont understand wot its like to be the
other. With me and my GF, i kno where shes coming from and i
understand her cos im in the same place a lot of the time, and she
understands me the same way. How many ppl in a relationship can say
that. Of course we hav arguements somtimes , who dosent, but it never
lasts long, cos we cant fall out for long cos we re like soulmates.
So if ppl were *less* like the socalled *normal* male and *normal*
female, then they would be more alike in the ways where it matterd and
theyd get on better and understand each other better. I hate fucking
football and crap like that, and in this country its assunmed that if
your male then your gonna be into football, when the truth is that its
mainly the low inteleckt yobby types who are into it, im not and none
of my freinds are either, so my Gf dont hav to put up with me being
into all that rubbish, tho loads of girls actualy like the fucking
rubbish as well, probaly cos they think there being *cool* and making
theresleves like it to fit in. If you can be diffrent to socaitys
stupid exspecjtations of wot it thinks male and femals should be like,
if you get away from all that crap and not be controlled by it , like
loads of ppl are, even if they dont realise that they are, but they
just blindley acsept it anyway without even realising that thats wot
threre doing, then ppl would be happier cos they would be themselves
nevermind wot sex they are, cos its all that crap that puts
restricktions on ppl , and ppl cling onto it cos there *afraid* of
letting it go, cos theyv been so indocktrinated by sociaty.
I hope this helps sombody who is wonderring how to get on w the
oposite sex, if u think that the oposit sex is like somting from
another fucking planet or somthing that only get 2gether for sex and
hav got nothing else in common or never would hav, then yuour gonna be
miserabal. And thats another thing, i cant understnd blokes who
conplain that there GFs never want sex, cos my GF cant keep her hands
off of me, shes worse than i am for that sort of thing, she cant get
enough of me, even to the point where it gets on my nerves a bit
somtimes cos i dont always want to be mauled around, {tho im not
conplaing too much}! but thats another exsample of where shes not a
typickal female stereotype even tho she still looks v pretty in a
girly way.
So if evreybody would be more like the other sex, there wouldent be
so many *diffrences* to get in the way of them understanding eaach
other. If your the sort of person who dont *want* to ever understand
the oposite sex and you *want* to be as conpletley diffrent as
possibal, then just keep going with it, but i think you wont ever be
realy happy with sombody of the oppostite sex and might realy prefferr
sombody of the same sex in the end, cos ppl are usualy drawn to wot is
like therelselves and if there too diffrent then its never gonna work,
but the troubel is with most of sociaty is that it enouragages these
stupid stereotypes where males and females are not *suposed* to ever
undersatnd each other and so that sets them up to fail ultimatley, and
me and my GF are living proof of how well a realtionship can work when
the two ppl in the realationship realy undderstand each other.
V.
dizzy
wrote:
>>On the other hand, it's very rare to find a quality woman who can't
>>get guy with very little effort. Indeed, it's very hard to find one
>>that's not already taken.
>
>Speak for yourself, loser.
Compounding the situation, for nice guys anyway, is the fact that many
women inexplicably prefer scumbag assholes like Stebe Chanby.
Richard Hutnik
> Mathew, There might be a few good points in there... but the whole premise
> will start Richard off on the wrong foot. The best way to run a girl off is
> to convey even a shred of suspicion that all you're interested in is
> "laying" her - unless she's a prostitute.
>
> --
> Sarah
> http://4ftv.com/Love.html
I am finding about the only time I am coming remotely close to
something that would be considered success is if sex isn't there as a
subject. It isn't on the top of my list. This then would allow the
woman to get close to me, and things may develop. In other words, I
am not going to push it.
I believe concern for her needs to come before any selfish interests.
- Richard Hutnik
O_Zean
If you want to meet people, you should go to Japan or china. There are
tons of shy people living there, so You will have a better chance of
finding a person who is not extrovert, thus more like you. Or you
could go Islands or remote places like Russia, where there are tons of
men wanting to marry and make yoiu a wife.
allochka
"The Danimal" <dmo...@mfm.com> wrote in message
news:cac1ad88.03050...@posting.google.com...
> tom calwell <tom_use...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<t6tcbvg6qsu25ud4m...@4ax.com>...
> > "Davros" <dav...@EXspiritworld.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > >"tom calwell" <tom_use...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> it seems to me like these dating services are somewhat of a waste,
> > >> humiliation, and ripoff.
>
> They have the potential to be a ripoff if you have to pay in
> advance regardless of your results.
>
> If the service operator has confidence in the product, the
> operator should assume the risk.
>
>
really
> > >nice friends in my area, and my business partner has also met someone
> > >through this site, and they plan on marrying shortly.
> >
> > congrats, adrian. but it doesn't usually work out this way; it's not
> > typical.
>
>
We run a dating service in Russia; I will not spam the group with details,
but we are successful in matching couples. Contrary to what most people
think, we get less responses for our prettiest ladies than for those who
might be described as 'average'.
It seems that most men have this 'inbuilt' fear of rejection; thereby
missing many opportunities!
A.
Davo
there though... Guess it's a fine line..... :-)
"Sarah Munchel" <lo...@4ftv.com> wrote in message
news:FFBta.58$dp1....@news.bc.tac.net...
Davo
relative sense regardless of his experience but your message seemed a little
off track and I think you must be on a different plane to me, no offense....
"Varizo" <var...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:6f6f6941.03050...@posting.google.com...
Extrya
> > > >> > so, what do you do to get past that?
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Be a hypocrite and fake a personality like everyone else? Surely
> > > >> a relationship won't last long when you're trying to be something
> > > >> you're not...you're in a relationship (sorry to sound Darkfalzian)
> > > >> being a woman, how long would you last with a guy who faked
> > > >> a way of behaving just to get near you? Someone who
> > > >> doesn't like being social will get nowhere without either learning
> > > >> to change or simply faking it. Fine, if seeing a shrink will do
that,
> > > >> go spend the cash....but for some ppl a fundamental change of
> > > >> perception is the only fix, who knows what Richard needs - he
> > > >> seems to be trying at least
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Geeez, you're so far off, I can't even respond in an intelligent
way.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ??
> > >
> > he sounds like one of those people who think that not being in a
> reactionary
> > mode most of the time is equal to lying and faking it.... That's a psych
> > concept that can be talked about at great length. Not something I can do
> in
> > this forum, not much time for very long posts.
> >
> >
>
> Don't agree with you there, "over analysis...." Is just the "chip on your
> shoulder" concept me thinks.....
>
If 'reactionary mode' is WHAT YOU ARE, then pretending NOT
to be is faking it ...get it? If a shrink will teach you how to fit
in..great.
Faker.
Sharon B
<mynonspa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Vario, what drugs are you on, I want some??? :-)
Youth :-)
>I thought Danimal made
>relative sense regardless of his experience but your message seemed a little
>off track and I think you must be on a different plane to me, no offense....
Teenagers usually are, IME.
Richard Hutnik
SARS has really messed up this as an option at this time.
- Richard Hutnik
Sarah Munchel
one... long-term potential including good sex. Another person posted
somewhere in this thread about a girl that just wanted to use him for sex.
I maintain my argument that she's essentially a prostitute. So, that's a
consideration... keep in mind what type of woman do YOU want.
--
Sarah
http://4ftv.com/Love.html
"Davo" <mynonspa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B_Nta.4047$_o4....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Davros
> "Davros" <dav...@EXspiritworld.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >"tom calwell" <tom_use...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> richar...@hotmail.com (Richard Hutnik) wrote:
> >> >lo...@4ftv.com (Sarah) wrote:
>
> >> >> I'd say it's a little not normal. Where all are you trying to meet
http://4ftv/Love.html ?
> difficulties in meeting people are somewhat of an illusion in the case
> of romance I think, though.
>
> there are people we all come in contact with everyday [unless we > choose
to live as hermits].
>
> >However having joined a free dating site, I have made a couple of really
> >nice friends in my area, and my business partner has also met someone >
>through this site, and they plan on marrying shortly.
>
> congrats, adrian. but it doesn't usually work out this way; it's not >
typical.
>
> most people would have much better odds just opening up and extending >
themselves in real life instead of wasting their time on the internet > or
personals.
>
> >As for the chemistry thing, maybe it might be an idea to disassociate the
> >emotional feelings to some extent, especially those associated with the >
>glamour of relationship, and look more to mutual respect, communication and
> >consideration and then allow the emotional chemistry to develop in what
is > >already a bonded friendship.
> >
> >In other words, ignore looks, in terms of the outer shell, and find the >
>person inside, and let the chemistry come through that.
>
> eh, just curious.
> how do you define chemistry??
>
socio-psychologically contrived reaction to what we find attractive in
another person.
Our expectation of what we should find attractive in another person is based
upon "Fashion", and "Glamour". So first impressions count far more than they
should, we watch the media, see models, and other people in magazines and on
TV, none of whom are really "average".
This builds a false impression of what people in general are really like,
although in truth all we have to do is look around us and see that in the
ordinary everday street, few people would meet those expectations.
Chemistry also works on a more basic level. We also have an inbuilt sexual
drive, which is linked to our senses, and initially to the visual cortex, so
we look sub consciously for various things in other people, especially
potential "mates", ie Women who look as if they have potential to produce
babies, and Men who have potential to produce sperm to make those babies.
So when men say "she's a babe!" they are thinking "She can give me lots of
babies", and when women say "He's fit" they are thinking "He can give me
lots of babies."
Then as an incidental addition to this, we also look for those of the
opposite sex that will also be potentially the most pleasureable to have sex
with. This is another factor designed to ensure survival of the species.
This is the point at which both the basic survival trait and the
Glamour/Fashion angle come together, as that ideal of who it would be most
pleasureable to have sex with, is dictated by the false tenets contrived
through what we view as glamorous.
This changes from day to day, year to year, so we can be conditioned to
expect different things from day to day and year to year.
However if we can disassociate ourselves from this basic idea, and ignore
the "survival of the fittest" conditioning, and the associated "glamour"
conditioning, we should in theory be able to open up a far wider range of
people who would be acceptable to us as potential partners.
So taking this theory even further, it might be an idea to have "dating
sites" which actually ban photographs, and allow people to get to know one
another on a more cerebral level, before the physicality of actually seeing
someone stops the relationship developing before it has a fair chance to
develop in terms of mutual respect and friendship.
Adrian
The Danimal
> The best way to run a girl off is
> to convey even a shred of suspicion that all you're interested in is
> "laying" her - unless she's a prostitute.
Let me see if I follow this. Suppose Captain Canader expressed far
more than a shred of suspicion that all he's interested in is
"laying" you. (Captain Canader expresses himself that way quite
often.) Sarah, if that happened and Captain Canader did not
run you off Usenet, would the "unless" clause then apply?
-- the Danimal, it's a trick question
Davo
"Sharon B" <sha...@lart.com> wrote in message
news:phcfbvkrlqv36p2pm...@4ax.com...
dizzy
wrote:
>Ah yes, finally you admit the truth.
Notice I said "scumbag assholes like Stebe Chanby". LIKE Stebe
Chanby, not Stebe Chanby. Although I don't doubt that you've actually
found some women who'd demean herself to be with you. Like I said,
they like assholes.
>Sadly, though, you had to get in that
>scumbag asshole dig.
Consider it a complement, Stebe.
>Don't worry, man, I feel for ya. It sucks being a loser at women like you
>are. Maybe Danimal's idea holds some salvation for you.
I'm afraid to ask.
dizzy
>If you want to meet people, you should go to Japan or china.
Japan, I'm not so sure. You'd have to be top-notch to get a pretty
Japanese women to come over here for you. China, much better chance.
dizzy
>Post proof or retract this absurd claim.
No. It's true. Women will always claim they want a sensitive guy, a
guy who talks. In reality they are less attracted to that.
That Guy Again
OTOH, Sarah, I'd say society's way of dealing with courtship is not
normal. In fact, I think our society has courtship all wrong.
> Where all are you trying to meet
> people? Have you tried anything like this http://4ftv/Love.html ?
> New hobbies? Taking a class at school traditionally attended by
> women?
How about you... have YOU ever been to some "happenin' place" which
turned out to be a bore? Have YOU ever tried to take an interest in
the kinds of hobbies men would like? I didn't think so. Your kind of
sales pitch doesn't surprise me, being as you run one of those useless
web dating services.
Until our society learns to get it right, we lonely people deserve
what we're getting.
Guess I don't really give a damn if the woman who could've been my
wife dies in some filthy rest home with no one to come visit her. It's
her own fault for not making herself available.
Guy Richards