A test for Glass318
Alan S
Troll or Doctor? You have certainly caused some discussion.
A challenge for you. You don't want to risk your credentials
on the open net, so convince us, if you can, of your merit
in a different way. Of course, you do not have to reply. In
fact, I am not expecting one. However, a negative or
inadequate response will also assist us to decide whether
you belong in the killfile or become required reading.
1. Describe as clearly as you can for lay readers the
differences in nature, treatment and diagnostic tests for
Type 1, Type 2, LADA and MODY.
2. Several lay people here have developed "Getting Started"
advice for a newly diagnosed type 2. Provide the advice you
would offer to a newly diagnosed type 2 including diet,
testing, exercise and initial timing and dosage of metformin
if prescribed. Presume that this patient is 50yo, 20lbs
overweight, has BP of 150/90, fasting blood glucose of 144
(measured twice on different days), Trigs of 250, LDL 160
and HDL 25. They mention a random blood glucose taken at
home of 250.
3. Which specialist referrals would you recommend to that
patient as a matter of course during the first month or two
of treatment?
4. Read the following paper and provide a discussion in
language comprehensible to a layperson of the authors'
methods, results and conclusions and the implications of
those conclusions for treatment of type 2 dyslipidemia.
http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/25/8/1697
I look forward with interest to your responses. If you are a
troll, this should be interesting. If you are a doctor I
hope we will learn from the answers.
Take as much time as you want; we can wait.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/
latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management
Alan S
<loralgtwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hello Glass
>
>Troll or Doctor? You have certainly caused some discussion.
>
>A challenge for you. You don't want to risk your credentials
>on the open net, so convince us, if you can, of your merit
>in a different way. Of course, you do not have to reply. In
>fact, I am not expecting one. However, a negative or
>inadequate response will also assist us to decide whether
>you belong in the killfile or become required reading.
>
Waiting...
waiting...
A busy day in the surgery?
waiting...
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
krom
could plant a vineyard and make your own wine before this guy comes through
sadly.
KROM
"Alan S" <loralgtwei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ciifa39t8hdcq8sk9...@4ax.com...
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> Hello Glass
Not Glass.
> Troll or Doctor?
Glass is possibly a physician. If not, a pretender rather than a
"troll," which would be a mythological creature that would not be able
to post anything here on usenet.
> You have certainly caused some discussion.
More controversy than discussion.
> A challenge for you. You don't want to risk your credentials
> on the open net, so convince us, if you can, of your merit
> in a different way.
There would be no risk to his credentials here. The concern would be
the possibility of unwanted intrusion into possibly both his personal
and professional life.
> Of course, you do not have to reply. In
> fact, I am not expecting one. However, a negative or
> inadequate response will also assist us to decide whether
> you belong in the killfile or become required reading.
>
> 1. Describe as clearly as you can for lay readers the
> differences in nature, treatment and diagnostic tests for
> Type 1, Type 2, LADA and MODY.
Type-1 diabetes mellitus - persistent severe hyperglycemia with
ketoacidosis (DKA) because of insulin lack arising from the loss of
the insulin producing cells of the pancreas because of auto-
antibodies. These antibodies can be detected by blood tests. The
absence of endogenous insulin can also be determined by blood
testing. However, a young person presenting acutely ill with DKA
requiring large amounts parenteral fluids containing dextrose and
insulin is diagnostic. The treatment is a mix of long and short
acting insulin analogues.
Type-2 diabetes mellitus - persistent hyperglycemia without
ketoacidosis because of insulin resistance combined with inadequate
production of insulin by the pancreas that has lost insulin producing
cells because of the inflammatory cascade initiated by the pro-
inflammatory cytokines from visceral adipose tissue (VAT). This is the
most common type of diabetes mellitus in the U.S. The treatment is
with medications that either increase insulin sensitivity or increase
insulin levels or both. The latter may include exogenous long and
short acting insulin analogues. Insulin requirements can be
considerably larger than for type-1 diabetics because of insulin
resistance despite endogenous insulin production.
Latent Autoimmune Diabetes in Adults (LADA) - uncommon form of
diabetes mellitus that is also known as antibody-positive type-2
diabetes because auto-antibodies to insulin-producing cells (beta
islet cells) of the pancreas are present. The preferred treatment is
with exogenous insulin and insulin sensitizers in hopes of preserving
beta islet cell function for as long as possible.
Maturity Onset Diabetes of the Young (MODY) - very rare inherited
forms of diabetes mellitus that are diagnosed by family history
leading to the application of highly specialized genetic testing.
Because insulin sensitivity is typically normal, treatment entails
increasing beta islet cell production and release of insulin.
> 2. Several lay people here have developed "Getting Started"
> advice for a newly diagnosed type 2. Provide the advice you
> would offer to a newly diagnosed type 2 including diet,
ADA diet dovetailed with the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach.
Goal: Become hungrier (healthier) to lose all the visceral adipose
tissue (VAT) to cure the insulin resistance (IR/MetS).
> testing,
Once before first meal of the day (ie fasting blood glucose or FBG).
> exercise
Ultra-low impact exercise (Taiji) that is the only exercise has been
shown in randomized controlled trials to reverse the osteoarthritis
that folks with type-2 diabetes typically have.
> and initial timing and dosage of metformin if prescribed.
Instead of metformin, would typically prescribe an oral hypoglycemic
(blood glucose lowering) agent to be taken only when the FBG is
greater than 120 mg/dL.
> Presume that this patient is 50yo, 20lbs
> overweight, has BP of 150/90, fasting blood glucose of 144
> (measured twice on different days), Trigs of 250, LDL 160
> and HDL 25. They mention a random blood glucose taken at
> home of 250.
High BP should be addressed with an ACE inhibitor if tolerated. If
not, an ARB would be an acceptable alternative. Either will increase
insulin sensitivity.
Hypertriglyceridemia should be addressed with high dose DHA and EPA,
which are available by prescription. Goal is to lower triglycerides
to below 150 mg/dL. Fibrates can be added if high dose DHA and EPA
prove inadequate. These too will increase insulin sensitivity.
LDL will decrease and HDL will increase with loss of VAT. This too
will increase insulin sensitivity.
The above measures typically obviate the need for metformin, which is
not a benign drug with the possible adverse lethal effect of lactic
acidosis especially in folks with comorbidities (heart and kidney
disease) as often is the case for type-2 diabetics.
> 3. Which specialist referrals would you recommend to that
> patient as a matter of course during the first month or two
> of treatment?
Referrals should be made to an opthalmologist, a podiatrist, and a
certified diabetes educator (CDE).
> 4. Read the following paper and provide a discussion in
> language comprehensible to a layperson of the authors'
> methods, results and conclusions and the implications of
> those conclusions for treatment of type 2 dyslipidemia.
> http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/25/8/1697
>From your source:
"Conclusion- Insulin resistance and DM2 are associated with excess
hepatic production of VLDL1 particles similar in size and composition
to those in nondiabetic subjects. We propose that hyperglycemia is the
driving force that aggravates overproduction of VLDL1 in DM2."
The problem with the latter proposal is the observation that there is
excess hepatic production of VLDL1 in folks with isolated IR/MetS sans
hyperglycemia.
Therefore, what should be targeted to reduce hypertriglycemia in
type-2 diabetes is **not** the hyperglycemia but rather the insulin
resistance (IR/MetS). The latter is addressed most effectively by
losing the VAT.
It remains wiser to eat less, down to the optimal amount to become
healthier (hungrier) to lose the VAT, to cure the IR/MetS, and to
possibly cure the type-2 diabetes:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Healing
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist
Alan S
<thekromre...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Perhaps have a nice glass of wine as you wait...altho i got the feeling you
>could plant a vineyard and make your own wine before this guy comes through
>sadly.
>
>KROM
To be honest, I truly hope I'm wrong. Despite the
differences of opinion we could do with a sane qualified doc
on the group for a different point of view. I've always felt
that the best way to improve out knowledge is healthy
debate; unfortunately too many can't see the difference
between that and an argument or flame war.
However, the response so far has been underwhelming.
glass318
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:37:21 -0500, "krom"
>
> >Perhaps have a nice glass of wine as you wait...altho i got the feeling you
> >could plant a vineyard and make your own wine before this guy comes through
> >sadly.
>
> >KROM
>
> To be honest, I truly hope I'm wrong. Despite the
> differences of opinion we could do with a sane qualified doc
> on the group for a different point of view. I've always felt
> that the best way to improve out knowledge is healthy
> debate; unfortunately too many can't see the difference
> between that and an argument or flame war.
>
> However, the response so far has been underwhelming.
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
> latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforesthttp://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
> latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management
Interesting. Today has been unusually busy but such is life outside
the internet.
For the record, I am an Internist with an unusually high number of
Diabetic patients. Not a surgeon!
This is ridiculous but I will use it as mental exercise so here you
go:
Question 1. I am tempted not to answer your first question because
anyone can Google or use Web MD, cut and paste the info you requested.
I realized, however, that you said "lay readers". You may point out
inaccuracies - I'm no biochemist.
a) Your body needs energy to function (we call it ATP)
b) Energy is produced by 'burning' or using fuel
c) Your body's fuel: Glucose and Free fatty acids (your body processes
glucose in such a way that energy is released in the form of ATP,
which is used in almost every process that occurs in the body. E.g.
muscle contraction)
d) Most of the time, after you eat, your body uses glucose for energy
and stores fat. Excess glucose is stored or indirectly converted into
fat (for storage--that explains why carbs make you gain weight).
- Your gut breaks food down (carbohydrates, protein, fat) into
glucose, aminoacids and free fatty acids.
e) Insulin is a hormone (protein) that your body calls whenever your
blood glucose levels go up (after eating)
f) Insulin is produced by the Beta cells found in the pancreas
g) When Insulin is called on, it goes around telling your cells to
open their doors for the glucose to enter. It also tells the cells to
use glucose as the primary fuel; not the fatty acids (they are stored
for later use if necessary). It also specifically tells your liver to
store excess glucose for times of need (in form of glycogen--this
takes place primarily in the liver). Insulin also serves as a signal
to the liver so it does not release any of the stored sugar into the
bloodstream. It does many other things (like stimulate processes that
convert aminoacids into glucose).
h) If your body does not produce any insulin at all, when you eat and
your blood sugar increases, there is no one to let the cells know that
they are supposed to open up for the glucose to enter. The liver, due
to the lack of insulin, does not know the sugar situation and thinks
you are fasting, therefore it releases more sugar into the
bloodstream, worsening the problem (this explains why you might go to
bed with a blood sugar of 150 and wake up with a sugar of 250 without
ever making a trip to your kitchen).
- Now, what does your body do? The next logical pre-programmed thing
is to use the alternate fuel -- fatty acids. Through the 'burning' of
fatty acids, the body can produce energy in a real quest for survival.
This is a less efficient process. The bodybreaks the fatty acids into
Acetyl CoA. The liver then takes this end product and produces what we
call 'ketone bodies'. These ketone bodies are acids used as fuel by
the brain, heart and skeletal muscle in times when sugar is not
available. The problem is, the rate at which acid is produced, far
exceeds the rate at which these organs use them. Acid then builds up
in the blood and causes many problems like belly aches, vomiting,
headache, drowsiness, and through organ malfunction, even death.
- Type One Diabetics do not produce Insulin at all, so they are most
prone to the above scenario. If you want to get a bit more detailed,
Type 1A patients do not produce insulin because their bodies have
produced antibodies against their own pancreatic B cells. Type 1B
patients do not have these antibodies but have evidence of beta cell
destruction (we just do not know how they got destroyed).
Without Insulin treatment, Type 1s will invariably develop
Ketoacidosis and may die.
- Adult-Onset Type 1 Diabetes Mellitus - This is what you call Latent
Autoimmune Diabetes in Adults (LADA).
This is a relatively new description. I recall seeing it for the first
time when in 1993, some folks (I think from Down Under but I may be
wrong) published findings suggesting that some previously labelled
Type 2s actually had measurable levels of antibodies against their
pancreatic Islet cells. If you are having a hard time controlling your
sugars with diet, exercise and oral therapy, you might have to be
tested for antibodies (Islet cell antibody or ICA and Glutamic Acid
Decarboxylase or GAD). We still don't know how early such patients
should get insulin or whether any form of immune modulating treatment
can alter the course of the disease.
If you do not fit any of the above, you are most likely a Type 2
Diabetic unless you have:
1. A genetic defect of beta cell function (MODY - Type 1 through
6....and counting, mitochondrial mutations, genetic defect in insulin
action, Wolfram syndrome, etc)
2. Pregnant
3. Acquired beta cell destruction (viral infection, hemochromatosis,
pancreatitis, etc, etc)
4. Rarer than rare syndromes like Stiff-Person syndrome (Immune
mediated--anti-GAD-- with central neurologic signs) or anti-insulin
receptor antibody syndrome.
Question 2:
Give your patient TLC (Therapeutic lifestyle changes per ATP III) for
we need to work seriously on their insulin sensitivity and metabolic
syndrome. No HDL adviCe because you forgot to give this patient a
gender. All the other things would be patient-centered so I will not
speculate -- plus I have to go to bed).
Question 3
For Diabetes, Eyes only. Anything else and you'll have to back it up
with evidence.
Now, it would have been helpful to know the gender. Mammogram, Pap
Smear, Colonoscopy, PSA or no PSA, etc...take care of the whole
patient...not only a disease...
Question 4
Too tired to even read the question. Are you kidding? After the first
two acronyms, I gave up. Off to bed! If you insist, I actually will
but... adios!
Andy is Evil
in news:1185421186.7...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
Sock Notice: "andrew" in use. Sock puppets heartdoc(s) 9 thru 17 having
spam launchers rewound.
> neighbor Alan S wrote:
>>
>> Hello Glass
>
> Not Glass.
Yet Andrew replies.
>
>> Troll or Doctor?
>
> Glass is possibly a physician. If not, a pretender rather than a
> "troll," which would be a mythological creature that would not be able
> to post anything here on usenet.
This pedantic usage of the word "troll" is almost funny, as though Andrew
were attempting a joke.
>
>> You have certainly caused some discussion.
>
> More controversy than discussion.
Not on SMC. Andrew brought it here. More noise from SMC's SCM.
>
snippity
>
Here comes the SCAM
> ADA diet dovetailed with the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach.
How to do the MUCH SPAMMED 2PD-OMER Approach
1.Buy a food scale.
2.Measure what you eat.
3.Gradually cut the total amount eaten down to 2 pounds a day.
4.Walk for 4096 days in a Middle Eastern desert wearing robes from an
old Hollywood Biblical epic carrying a hip flask in case you have to (or
want to) drink your own urine.
Weight loss (but not survival) guaranteed by a million dollar promise
underwritten by the Imbese branch of the Somalian National Bank. Simply
post all your bank details to this newsgroup to apply.
There you go, all you need to know _and_ you don't need to visit his
K00K site.
>
> Goal: Become hungrier (healthier) to lose all the visceral adipose
> tissue (VAT) to cure the insulin resistance (IR/MetS).
Andrew's goal: To be right.
>
>
It is entirely possible that the medical answers submitted by Andrew were
valid, but given his history of obsessive Usenet abuse, his disingenuous
argumentation, and the cloud under which he left Emory, what sane person
would take his word for anything ?
>
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Healing
SPAM SITE
>
snip
>
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
SCAM ALERT
SPAM
SPAM
SPAM
>
snip
> 2PD-O-Fries Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD/NJ/WOKA/SCM**
> Ex-Cardiologist
>
>
Andy is Evil
**NJ-->NutJob,WOKA-->Winner Of K00K Awards,SCM-->Sad Counter Monkey
Alan S
Thank you for the response. I hope you slept well.
Before I say any more, a couple of clarifications. In
Australia, the room a GP sees his patients in is known as a
surgery, whether or not surgery is actually performed in the
room. Maybe it's one of those tomayto tomarto things as you
cross the Pacific.
And, "ridiculous"? Sorry, I don't agree, but the attitude
behind the comment is why some here have found it so
difficult to accept you. Think about it for a while. You
see, if you are a doctor and we are patients we see the
doctor-patient relationship a little differently from our
side. We see it in a similar light to a mechanic paid to fix
the car - we do not have the mechanic's knowledge and skill,
so we respect that, but we still consider the mechanic a
paid tradesman doing a job for us. Exacerbating that in me
is an Aussie trait of having extreme difficulty in accepting
pronouncements from "Revered Authority". I'm sorry if that
doesn't display the right deference for years of med-school
and internship. Well, no I'm not really sorry - I do respect
the training and knowledge, but I do not respect an attitude
of superiority and an unwillingness to learn from other's
experiences.
It wasn't a ridiculous request, because I felt it was a fair
way to at least give you a chance to convince some here that
you are genuine.
Finally, as a layman and patient, I cannot fault your
explanation and in fact I learnt a few new things from it.
Thank you. Yes, it could be a cut-and-paste, but a search
should be able to check that - but it was clear, lucid at my
level and informative. For the technical aspects I'll let
our more expert posters muse on that; but I'm satisfied.
I'm sure you are aware that we would have different
suggestions for your patient modifying "ATP III" (reading
that now at
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cholesterol/index.htm).
In fact, that's one reason I was suggesting you check out
that paper on the link.
I'm happy to learn from anyone who knows more than I. Are
you prepared to accept that there may be patients who know
more than you on specific aspects of self-treatment of
diabetes?
Later, I would seriously like an answer on that paper on
lipids.
PS Specialists I would recommend to any new Type 2 would be,
even if only for baseline setting:
Heart/cardio;
Ophthalmologist;
Podiatrist; and
despite my differences with them, a dietician.
Nicky
wrote:
>Question 1. I am tempted not to answer your first question because
>anyone can Google or use Web MD, cut and paste the info you requested.
>I realized, however, that you said "lay readers". You may point out
>inaccuracies - I'm no biochemist.
That was a good answer. Thanks - saved.
Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
Julie Bove
<snip>
> Before I say any more, a couple of clarifications. In
> Australia, the room a GP sees his patients in is known as a
> surgery, whether or not surgery is actually performed in the
> room. Maybe it's one of those tomayto tomarto things as you
> cross the Pacific.
<snip>
What is known as surgery here is the room where operations or surgical
procedures are done. Here, the room where the patients are seen is called
the exam room or examining room.
krom
two trolls who could spout body building knowledge like gurus and most all
of it accurate,,they never touched a weight or body built in thier lives
when busted as frauds..but were very adept at reading and parroting info
gleaned from the net and magazines.
There also was a guy who wrote a diet book and could hold his own in
discussions with doctors..turns out he was rail thin to start with and had
to lose maybe 5 pounds to get to the body mass he ascribed to his diet...his
book has sold thousands.
Then we got guys here like chung who can spout medical info im sure as some
say he has helped them but is a complete nut job.
So i am once again reserving judgment until he actually posts helpful
responses to questions posted and engages in freindly discourse as this is a
support group.
From what i grasp he is simply using the group as a way to promote his
website and further his interests rather then be a help of any kind.
I would be glad to be wrong...time will tell.
KROM
"Alan S" <loralgtwei...@gmail.com> wrote
> It wasn't a ridiculous request, because I felt it was a fair
glass318
> Sadly even his response doesnt inspire me much...in the weights board we had
> two trolls who could spout body building knowledge like gurus and most all
> of it accurate,,they never touched a weight or body built in thier lives
> when busted as frauds..but were very adept at reading and parroting info
> gleaned from the net and magazines.
>
> There also was a guy who wrote a diet book and could hold his own in
> discussions with doctors..turns out he was rail thin to start with and had
> to lose maybe 5 pounds to get to the body mass he ascribed to his diet...his
> book has sold thousands.
>
> Then we got guys here like chung who can spout medical info im sure as some
> say he has helped them but is a complete nut job.
>
> So i am once again reserving judgment until he actually posts helpful
> responses to questions posted and engages in freindly discourse as this is a
> support group.
>
> From what i grasp he is simply using the group as a way to promote his
> website and further his interests rather then be a help of any kind.
>
> I would be glad to be wrong...time will tell.
>
> KROM
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
krom, is your real name Thomas? Forever the doubter. lol
glass318
> In fact, that's one reason I was suggesting you check out
> that paper on the link.
>
> I'm happy to learn from anyone who knows more than I. Are
> you prepared to accept that there may be patients who know
> more than you on specific aspects of self-treatment of
> diabetes?
>
> Later, I would seriously like an answer on that paper on
> lipids.
>
> PS Specialists I would recommend to any new Type 2 would be,
> even if only for baseline setting:
> Heart/cardio;
> Ophthalmologist;
> Podiatrist; and
> despite my differences with them, a dietician.
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
> latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforesthttp://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Alan,
The specialist issue is one that has evolved over recent years. Why
would you want a newly diagnosed Type 2 to see a Cardiologist? I
definitely would refer to a Dietician (missed that one).
My approach is usually patient-centered that is why I am not amused by
some of the assumptions here that we are always patronizing or telling
patients what to do or not to do. I learn from my patients everyday.
The biggest lesson I have learnt over the years is that the patient
has the most power to control their disease no matter how many pills
or injections a Physcian prescribes.
When I saidATP III, I was only referring to the 'TLC'- borrowing that
term, not all the recommendations of the panel. I base a lot of my
practice on mainstream evidence, patient's preference and what works
for them and my experience. As we all know, ATP III has evolved,
significantly since it was released. ATP IV is long overdue.
jb
And this is called stalking. I have collected several of your posts
now harrassing this man, and you have failed on a constant basis to
prove anything against him.
I'm turning these posts over to the feds.
Cary Kittrell
Actually, this is called "mocking".
> I have collected several of your posts
> now harrassing this man, and you have failed on a constant basis to
> prove anything against him.
>
> I'm turning these posts over to the feds.
Good show! Well done!
I'm sure the helicopters are in the air even as
we speak.
Because after all, if we allow even one poster on
Usenet to disparage another, the terrorists will
have won.
-- cary
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Alan S <loralgtweightandca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "krom" <thekromremoverem...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >Perhaps have a nice glass of wine as you wait...altho i got the feeling you
> > >could plant a vineyard and make your own wine before this guy comes through
> > >sadly.
> >
> > >KROM
> >
> > To be honest, I truly hope I'm wrong. Despite the
> > differences of opinion we could do with a sane qualified doc
> > on the group for a different point of view. I've always felt
> > that the best way to improve out knowledge is healthy
> > debate; unfortunately too many can't see the difference
> > between that and an argument or flame war.
> >
> > However, the response so far has been underwhelming.
>
> the internet.
Ime, such is the abundant life with LORD Jesus Christ.
> For the record, I am an Internist with an unusually high number of
> Diabetic patients. Not a surgeon!
Sadly, among surgeons, it would be a vascular surgeon who would
possibly have an unusually high number of diabetic patients.
> This is ridiculous but I will use it as mental exercise so here you
> go:
>
> Question 1. I am tempted not to answer your first question because
> anyone can Google or use Web MD, cut and paste the info you requested.
> I realized, however, that you said "lay readers". You may point out
> inaccuracies - I'm no biochemist.
The Holy Spirit guides me to write the following as a biochemist (PhD
in human genetics and molecular medicine):
> a) Your body needs energy to function (we call it ATP)
Yes, the energy resides in the high energy phosphate bonds of ATP.
> b) Energy is produced by 'burning' or using fuel
ATP is made from ADP and pyrophosphate by either glycolysis or a
process called oxidative phosphorylation in organelles called
mitochondria. These organelles are known by lay folks as the "power
plants" of our cells.
> c) Your body's fuel: Glucose and Free fatty acids (your body processes
> glucose in such a way that energy is released in the form of ATP,
> which is used in almost every process that occurs in the body. E.g.
> muscle contraction)
Inaccurate because you have ironically forgotten the brain :-) Only
glucose is the "fuel" for the **entire** body, including especially
the brain.
This comes from the understanding that physiologically the brain's
"fuel" has to be that which can be used for rapid bursts of ATP
production to match the excitatory bursts of highly energetic neuronal
activity that occurs with the processing of sensory input and with
thought itself.
This would necessarily have to be exclusively glucose for the process
called glycolysis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycolysis
With only fatty acids as "fuel" the liver will start making harmful
ketones (ketones are harmful because they increase rates of lipid
peroxidation) to supply muscles with a suboptimal alternative (ketones
are suboptimal for muscle because they do not permit glycolysis which
type-2 muscle fibers, those fibers which confer strength, rely on) to
glucose and will start breaking amino acids down to make the glucose
that the brain needs in this setting where dietary carbohydrates are
absent and glycogen stores have become depleted. Because optimal
levels of amino acids are needed for optimal rates of protein
synthesis, rates of protein breakdown start to exceed the rates of
protein synthesis. This is the reason why inadequate-carb diets result
in muscle wasting. The latter would be a bad thing especially for
type-2 diabetics because it tends to worsen insulin resistance.
Indeed, loss of hunger confirms that starvation ketosis from
inadequate carbohydrate intake is a bad thing.
ted rosenberg
instead of announcing your greatness. A quite acceptable answer. It
could be cut-and-paste, but the most important part is you FINALLY took
heed of what someone said and responded appropriately, I'd quibble a
bit on some of your answers, but I'fd have to admit it is only quibbkibg
not meaningful
ted rosenberg
>> text -
>>
>
> krom, is your real name Thomas? Forever the doubter. lol
>
>
And he is not claiming special status like you do
flyingrat
and...@emorycardiology.com says...
> Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
Andrew Chung:
Is a frequent and proven liar (evidence archived forever on Google)
Has lost numerous NNTP accounts with supernews and others, has had many
Google accounts nuked, and his vanity domain heartmdphd.com is now
banned from setting up accounts. He is instead using multiple Google
sock accounts and email addresses in the format love#@thetruth.com (#
being a number)
Is unemployed after being sacked with cause from his one and only job
after just over 80 days
Fled the state of Florida, and now claims to practice in Georgia despite
having no admission priveliges in the State's hospitals
Runs a phony foundation with a total declared income of circa $200, the
ownership and contact details of which are obfuscated on its website
Makes failed prophecies concerning earthquakes with areas and dates,
which don't happen (remember the bible quotes about false prophets)
Performed a public attempt at 'exorcising' a Malaysian sock on usenet,
then denied doing it. He has recently reversed position again and admits
to practicing exorcism by usenet, proving himself a liar in the process.
Promotes a dangerous diet, with a million dollar guarantee that he
demands thirty dollars to access details of. This despite being
unemployed. His soliciting and spamming for donations looks to be
similar to the Nigerian Advance Fee Fraud, where victims pay money
upfront in the hope of coming into riches but find they have merely
bought into a lie. Part of his advice is to pour nail polish remover onto food.
Declares he has a cardiology practice despite posting night and day from
the same IP address (his home presumably) or a coffee shop internet cafe
Makes further false prophecies that we should now be all dying in a bird
flu pandemic. When these fail to happen, he does them all over again and
changes the dates. Nuclear war is another Chung spciality, which
naturally doesn't happen when he says it is going to.
Worships evil hatemonger Fred Phelps and will not denounce the acts of
Westboro's congregation. He even accuses someone with the name Phelps of
being Fred's son and refuses to accept he is completely wrong.
Uses the same patter as Pat Robertson, indicating his religious activity
is confined to watching cable TV. No evidence Chung has ever attended a
church.
Has a tendency to cyberstalk, particularly women. His wife fled some
time ago to another state, an act which Chung tries to pass off as "being
on vacation".
Frequently passes himself off as being qualified in areas such as
endocrinology, despite making incredibly fundamental blunders in his
'advice'. It is no wonder the Florida heart facility terminated him, and
has publicly denounced his version of events. Again archived on Google.
Don't forget the fake fast, where he didn't lose any weight, as well as
the infamous 666 stamping fiasco. His latest vile trick is spamming the
blogs of dying cancer patients and then crowing triumphantly when they
pass away.
glass318
>
> - Show quoted text -
What are you talking about, Dr. Chung? Do you always have to say
something? Read my post again because me thinks you are just saying
the same things I have said in more "non-layman" language. I
personally do onot like copying and pasting and Wikipedia is not my
primary source of mediacl information.
FYI, Ketones are used by the BRAIN (and many other cells) as fuel in
times of need--e.g. during starvation. This is ONE of the ways we
survive prolonged periods of fasting. It is not as good as glucose but
it is the next best thing in times of need.
Didn't read anything new from your posting.
ted rosenberg
>
> My approach is usually patient-centered that is why I am not amused by
> some of the assumptions here that we are always patronizing or telling
> patients what to do or not to do. I learn from my patients everyday.
> The biggest lesson I have learnt over the years is that the patient
> has the most power to control their disease no matter how many pills
> or injections a Physcian prescribes.
>
<>
glass318
>
> - Show quoted text -
I listen to sensible stuff and fight thrash with thrash. If you talk
sense, I will reply with sense (not always guaranteed but I try :-)
Anyway, I hope you also learnt something from this process because I
did. You should learn to do some stealth probing before harrassing
newcomers because those who don't care will just leave. Food for
thought. You needn't reply!
Anyway, I hope we can talk Diabetes now.
glass318
Did you give me a chance, Teddy boy? You jumped at my throat and I had
to fight back, wasting everybody's precious time. Anyway, let's move
on.
Frisbee®
news:1185475000.7...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
You don't sound quite like any medical professional I've ever encountered.
Well, there was this one chiropractor you remind me of.
Actually, you also remind me of a particular medical student who posts in
rec.sport.football.college. I'm sure Hendryx knows who I'm talking about.
ted rosenberg
answered and didn';t come across as an arrogant jerk. Maybe you don't
realize what you sound like, but notice that EVERYBODY except the troll
got the same impression. Hearing it from me is no surprise. I do that,
but very few others do. YOU managed to piss off almost everyone. that
takes real talent., As to praise or advice from the Chung - that alone
will; get you KF'd by lots of people who won't even post, to tell you,
just kill.
Another reasn you get lots of posts is because people hope that you are
real, and that you will learn how to post on Usenet. Look up
Ironjustice - no one even bothers to answer hos drivel. We KNOW who he
is. The only wat the Chung gets any reaction at all is that he
crossposts all over the net trolling for fresh suckers.
Doug Freyburger
>
> FYI, Ketones are used by the BRAIN (and many other cells) as fuel in
> times of need--e.g. during starvation.
Ketones are used by the cells as a response to a successful
predator hunt. Humans are omnivores and that's one form of
success in getting food. Low carbing takes advantage of this
feature of ketones and it has nothing to do with starvation.
> This is ONE of the ways we survive prolonged periods of fasting.
Too but not relevant to low carbing.
> It is not as good as glucose but
That's a claim that fairs poorly when checked for accuracy.
> it is the next best thing in times of need.
Or in times of success. The primary reason for releasing
ketones has nothing to do with starvation.
Jefferson
>>To be honest, I truly hope I'm wrong. Despite the
>>differences of opinion we could do with a sane qualified doc
>>on the group for a different point of view. I've always felt
>>that the best way to improve out knowledge is healthy
>>debate; unfortunately too many can't see the difference
>>between that and an argument or flame war.
Dr. Biggs has generally good on the MHD (when he posts). I have always
found him very informative.
> For the record, I am an Internist with an unusually high number of
> Diabetic patients. Not a surgeon!
>
> This is ridiculous but I will use it as mental exercise so here you
> go:
Not as ridiculous as you may think. Many of us go to doctors that
explain very little. Most of what I know about diabetes has been learned
on the internet. I also did not find dieticians to be helpful. On the
other hand my GPs have been fairly aggressive in diabetic therapy.
>
> Question 1. I am tempted not to answer your first question because
> anyone can Google or use Web MD, cut and paste the info you requested.
> I realized, however, that you said "lay readers". You may point out
> inaccuracies - I'm no biochemist.
You have basically managed to give explainations below that most lay
readers can understand. On the surface it is hard to tell what people
can comprehend, so it is a good assumption that people are capable of
learning beyond high school.
>
> a) Your body needs energy to function (we call it ATP)
> b) Energy is produced by 'burning' or using fuel
> c) Your body's fuel: Glucose and Free fatty acids (your body processes
> glucose in such a way that energy is released in the form of ATP,
> which is used in almost every process that occurs in the body. E.g.
> muscle contraction)
> d) Most of the time, after you eat, your body uses glucose for energy
> and stores fat. Excess glucose is stored or indirectly converted into
> fat (for storage--that explains why carbs make you gain weight).
> - Your gut breaks food down (carbohydrates, protein, fat) into
> glucose, aminoacids and free fatty acids.
Over a period of time, diabetics tend to change their balance of muscle
fibers to those using fatty acids. Exercise does tend to defer, if not
revert this kind of change.
The normal range for HDL is not that different for males and females.
All the other things would be patient-centered so I will not
> speculate -- plus I have to go to bed).
While I am a Thomas type, you did OK IMO.
Frank
DonnaB shallotpeel
That was going to be my question, or perhaps something asking when we might
see some of this in action here ...
--
DonnaB
06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg
..................09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
..................12-20-06 hbA1C 5.2
..................05-18-07 hbA1C 5.3
"I'm going crazy with the boredom, Michael. At least in prison we had knife
fights & we had movie night & once both. Those men did not enjoy SOAPDISH. I
think you have to know that world." - George Bluth Sr., ARRESTED
DEVELOPMENT, "Queen for a Day", 1/23/2005
DonnaB shallotpeel
<1185475000.7...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, glass318
<glas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Numerous of us have given you chance after chance. Still are. Here, someone
asks you a question, someone whose name is Ted, and you snarl at him & call
him 'Teddy boy'. If you really want to move on, do it. Don't keep sniping at
people. And, don't keep posting arrogance.
Otherwise, what difference does it make whether you are 'amused' by some of
people's reactions to some doctors? The reactions are not being shared for
your amusement. That's not the point. So, if you want to learn a lesson, or
two even, start here: Many patients have valid reasons to be critical of
some members of the medical profession. Defensiveness about this gets in the
way of the knowledge you say you value.
--
DonnaB
06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg
..................09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
..................12-20-06 hbA1C 5.2
..................05-18-07 hbA1C 5.3
"I'd like to tell you that it gets easier, but it doesn't. Although most of
us put up with the pain because not loving, that's a lot worse." - Ava to
her niece, SUMMERLAND, 6-15-04
DonnaB shallotpeel
In alt.support.diabetes on Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:28:31 -0700 in Msg.#
<1185474511.2...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, glass318
<glas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Anyway, I hope you also learnt something from this process because I
> did. You should learn to do some stealth probing before harrassing
> newcomers because those who don't care will just leave. Food for
> thought. You needn't reply!
>
> Anyway, I hope we can talk Diabetes now.
You were not harassed, mister. People reacted to your posts. We still don't
have any idea if you know what you did wrong in your introduction to the
group, or not. So far, I'd say, ... not.
And, we always have been able to talk diabetes. We always were doing it.
Your introduction was distracting from doing just that.
If you think that this was harassment, you still do not understand the
culture of Usenet. Why, I do not know.
--
DonnaB
06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg
..................09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
..................12-20-06 hbA1C 5.2
..................05-18-07 hbA1C 5.3
"I was going to get my Daytime Emmy pool going but ... " - Dangle "Susan
Lucci's just going to get the shaft again, anyway." - Trudy RENO 911 June
2005
DonnaB shallotpeel
<1185477094.3...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Doug Freyburger
<dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Newsgroups: sci.med.cardiology,alt.support.diabetes,alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med,alt.christnet.christianlife
> glass318 <glass...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > FYI, Ketones are used by the BRAIN (and many other cells) as fuel in
> > times of need--e.g. during starvation.
>
> Ketones are used by the cells as a response to a successful
> predator hunt. Humans are omnivores and that's one form of
> success in getting food. Low carbing takes advantage of this
> feature of ketones and it has nothing to do with starvation.
[ ... ]
Why was this improperly crossposted to all of these newsgroups? [See above.]
Glass, if you reply to people who add in improper and inappropriate
newsgroups, it is a part of your job as a good citizen of this newsgroup and
Usenet in general, to cut it back to just ASD.
If you continue to perpetuate improper newsgroup crossposting, you will get
yourself killfiled by many posters. Of course if you continue to reply to
Ch*ng in meaningless dialogue, that might, too.
--
DonnaB
06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg
..................09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
..................12-20-06 hbA1C 5.2
..................05-18-07 hbA1C 5.3
"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every
other day ..." - Homer J. Simpson
Andy is Evil
news:Zb2qi.53210$5j1....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net:
> Andy is Evil wrote:
a thoroughly delighful summary of one of Andrew's posts.
>> Andy is Evil
>>
>> **NJ-->NutJob,WOKA-->Winner Of K00K Awards,SCM-->Sad Counter Monkey
>
> And this is called stalking.
> I have collected several of your posts now harrassing this man, and you
> have failed on a constant basis to prove anything against him.
You do realise that by your definition you've just admitted to stalking me.
>
> I'm turning these posts over to the feds.
Great, I'm sure they could do with a laugh. While you're at it you could
also post details of Andrews scam to the relevant authorities. Perhaps even
the same guy at the fed office or the AMA if he's too busy. If they don't
want to take an interest, try reporting Andrew to Google and his ISP for the
ridiculous number of sockpuppets, off-topic posts, and spamming that he daily
excretes onto Usenet.
Perhaps while we're waiting for their reply you could explain on this
newsgroup why you support lying and spamming.
Andy is Evil, but jb is just stoopid.
Alan S
<glas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>What are you talking about, Dr. Chung? Do you always have to say
>something? Read my post again because me thinks you are just saying
>the same things I have said in more "non-layman" language. I
>personally do onot like copying and pasting and Wikipedia is not my
>primary source of mediacl information.
>
> FYI, Ketones are used by the BRAIN (and many other cells) as fuel in
>times of need--e.g. during starvation. This is ONE of the ways we
>survive prolonged periods of fasting. It is not as good as glucose but
>it is the next best thing in times of need.
>
>Didn't read anything new from your posting.
A personal request.
If you must reply to Chung, please cut the crossposts that
he always adds to any post he makes.
Personally, I would prefer that those who feel they must
respond to him would do so exclusively in his home newsgroup
sci.med.cardiology. I have that group screened in a way that
means I rarely see anything here which also appears there.
DonnaB shallotpeel
<1185487867.8...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, sai...@gmail.com
wrote:
> On Jul 26, 3:09 pm, DonnaB shallotpeel <shallotp...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > Numerous of us have given you chance after chance. Still are. Here, someone
> > asks you a question, someone whose name is Ted, and you snarl at him & call
> > him 'Teddy boy'. If you really want to move on, do it. Don't keep sniping at
> > people. And, don't keep posting arrogance.
> >
> > Otherwise, what difference does it make whether you are 'amused' by some of
> > people's reactions to some doctors? The reactions are not being shared for
> > your amusement. That's not the point. So, if you want to learn a lesson, or
> > two even, start here: Many patients have valid reasons to be critical of
> > some members of the medical profession. Defensiveness about this gets in the
> > way of the knowledge you say you value.
>
> Ok. Surprising, but I have a sense of humour. The Teddy Boy thing was
> supposed to be funny. I guess I will be producing ketones as a comic.
> I hope Teddy Boy laughed about it.
So, Glass, is this you under a different username?
I'd be willing to be big netbucks that few, if any, people would get 'Teddy
boy' as humor. Maybe it could be heard in tone of voice F2F (face to face)
but in text only, nyah, I don't think it would carry.
--
DonnaB shallotpeel
"Everyone has a part of themselves they don't like, Joan. You carry it
around like a weight. The lucky ones realize that when it becomes too heavy
you can choose to set it down. That's when you can see things the way they
really are." - God as small girl with glasses, JOAN OF ARCADIA, Season 1,
'Night Without Stars'
MI
On 7/26/07 3:14 PM, in article
1185488093.3...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, "sai...@gmail.com"
<sai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 3:18 pm, DonnaB shallotpeel <shallotp...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>> In alt.support.diabetes on Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:11:34 -0700 in Msg.#
>> <1185477094.326503.146...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Doug Freyburger
>>
>> <dfrey...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Newsgroups:
>>> sci.med.cardiology,alt.support.diabetes,alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med,a
>>> lt.christnet.christianlife
>>> glass318 <glass...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> FYI, Ketones are used by the BRAIN (and many other cells) as fuel in
>>>> times of need--e.g. during starvation.
>>
>>> Ketones are used by the cells as a response to a successful
>>> predator hunt. Humans are omnivores and that's one form of
>>> success in getting food. Low carbing takes advantage of this
>>> feature of ketones and it has nothing to do with starvation.
>>
>> [ ... ]
>>
>> Why was this improperly crossposted to all of these newsgroups? [See above.]
>>
>> Glass, if you reply to people who add in improper and inappropriate
>> newsgroups, it is a part of your job as a good citizen of this newsgroup and
>> Usenet in general, to cut it back to just ASD.
>>
>> If you continue to perpetuate improper newsgroup crossposting, you will get
>> yourself killfiled by many posters. Of course if you continue to reply to
>> Ch*ng in meaningless dialogue, that might, too.
>>
>> --
>> DonnaB
>> 06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg
>> ..................09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
>> ..................12-20-06 hbA1C 5.2
>> ..................05-18-07 hbA1C 5.3
>>
>> "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every
>> other day ..." - Homer J. Simpson
>
> I did not understand a word of your advice. I post from Google so can
> you tell me how to avoid that trap? I always post to
> alt.support.diabetes
This is the third post I have noticed under this addy. Are we no longer made
of Glass or am I the confused one?
Martha T2 Canada
>
glass318
wrote:
> In alt.support.diabetes on Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:11:07 -0700 in Msg.#
>
> - Show quoted text -
finger slip
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
See the Subject line for the topic that the Holy Spirit has guided me
to write about.
> Do you always have to say something?
No.
> Read my post again because me thinks you are just saying
> the same things I have said in more "non-layman" language.
Fatty acids do not serve as "fuel" for the **entire** body as glucose
serves as fuel. What you have written in "layman" language does not
accurately reflect this important aspect of biochemistry as applied to
the physiology of macronutrient utilization..
> I personally do onot like copying and pasting
Nor do I so I have not.
> and Wikipedia is not my primary source of mediacl information.
It is adequate for helping laypersons understand fundamental
biochemistry, which would not be medical information.
> FYI, Ketones are used by the BRAIN (and many other cells) as fuel in
> times of need--e.g. during starvation.
If this were true, starving folks would survive being injected with
exogenous insulin which would cause iatrogenic hypoglycemia.
Instead, starving folks still go into hypoglycemic shock which will be
manifest by confusion followed by seizures, coma, and then death.
> This is ONE of the ways we survive prolonged periods of fasting.
With only ketones and no glucose from gluconeogenesis, there would be
immediate death from hypoglycemic shock in the setting of starvation.
> It is not as good as glucose but it is the next best thing in times of need.
Glucose is absolutely required for normal brain function.
Folks who have ever experienced delirium from hypoglycemia (ie our
medicated diabetic readers) should be able to affirm this.
That you lack this fundamental piece of knowledge does not bode well
for the rest of your knowledgebase.
> Didn't read anything new from your posting.
The fundamentals are not supposed to be new.
Truth is simple.
gu...@consolidated.net
I see tHis poster as an alleged medical shill. These people do not
want any restraint on them Te cost and performance of so many indicate
they are simple people that cannot use the alleged restraint.
Their behavior has caused things like Sicko to come about.
We need to ignore this alleged shll and give him the
silent treatment.
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:37:22 -0700, glass318 <glas...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Cheri
Alan S wrote in message ...
>Personally, I would prefer that those who feel they must
>respond to him would do so exclusively in his home newsgroup
>sci.med.cardiology. I have that group screened in a way that
>means I rarely see anything here which also appears there.
Lots of luck with that. I have a few preferences too, none of which
involves crossposting. LOL
Cheri
Alan S
I use Agent. What I did was as follows:
I set up the default cross-posting choices so that any
message read already in one group is marked read in others.
I subscribe to the group that the crossposts seem to be
from; in Chung's case, sci.med.cardiology.
I set up the properties for that specific group so that
"When retrieving new message headers" I "Mark all existing
messages read".
When I download messages I do it twice. The first time
around it shows messages received in all my "crosspost
killer" groups. The second time around they magically
disappear as they get "marked read" and they are also marked
read in asd.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> >What are you talking about, Dr. Chung? Do you always have to say
> >something? Read my post again because me thinks you are just saying
> >the same things I have said in more "non-layman" language. I
> >personally do onot like copying and pasting and Wikipedia is not my
> >primary source of mediacl information.
> >
> > FYI, Ketones are used by the BRAIN (and many other cells) as fuel in
> >times of need--e.g. during starvation. This is ONE of the ways we
> >survive prolonged periods of fasting. It is not as good as glucose but
> >it is the next best thing in times of need.
> >
> >Didn't read anything new from your posting.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/2476582fada6143b?
> A personal request.
>
> If you must reply to Chung, please cut the crossposts that
> he always adds to any post he makes.
Not always.
> Personally, I would prefer that those who feel they must
> respond to him would do so exclusively in his home newsgroup
> sci.med.cardiology. I have that group screened in a way that
> means I rarely see anything here which also appears there.
Then your preference is meaningless because it should not matter to
you whether folks post exclusively in SMC or crossposts to include ASD
because you claim you would not see their posts either way.
Bottomline:
You are untruthful.
This simply shows that you are lost:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/dream.asp
The brethren of LORD Jesus Christ are neither perfect nor more
special...
... we are simply forgiven by GOD:
http://www.interviewwithgod.com/forgiven/
May you wisely choose to be forgiven by publicly declaring with your
mouth that "Jesus is LORD:"
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> satan via a sockpuppet (demon) wrote nothing meaningful:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
> >
> > <hiss sputter hiss hiss>
>
> And this is called stalking. I have collected several of your posts
> now harrassing this man, and you have failed on a constant basis to
> prove anything against him.
Such is the work of satan via his sockpuppets (demons)
> I'm turning these posts over to the feds.
Only GOD can destroy satan by throwing him into a lake of burning
sulfur.
This will happen soon.
Julie Bove
<sai...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185487985.5...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> I have never used Usenet and didn't even realize you guys were on
> Usenet until someone mentioned it. I post from Google. IMO, I was
> harrassed big time but thats only my perception.
Doh!!!
jb
> jb <j...@dallas.global.net> wrote in
> news:Zb2qi.53210$5j1....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net:
>
>> Andy is Evil wrote:
> a thoroughly delighful summary of one of Andrew's posts.
>>> Andy is Evil
>>>
>>> **NJ-->NutJob,WOKA-->Winner Of K00K Awards,SCM-->Sad Counter Monkey
>> And this is called stalking.
>
>> I have collected several of your posts now harrassing this man, and you
>> have failed on a constant basis to prove anything against him.
>
> You do realise that by your definition you've just admitted to stalking me.
I realize that you should turn on your spell checker before you try
again to impress me with your arrogance and malice.
I've responded to two of your posts, one addressing me (this one)
and one harassing and defaming Andrew. If you've ever read the federal laws
on stalking then you will have to admit yourself that guilt is
determined by demonstration of a repeated pattern of malice. Your posts,
your handle and your responses to Andrew bear out the deliberate design
of a campaign of harassment and defamation.
The laws are explicit on this. You've made your bed, and you will get
a chance to lie in it. I know the authorities pursue cases of this
nature, particularly where a professional person is compromised. As to
whether they will charge you, I cannot say, but I have no qualms about
furnishing them the evidence, and I have ZERO sympathy for you.
This will be the last time I respond to you UNLESS you also decide to
harass me. My advice....don't do it. Twice the crime, twice the time...
My advice to you, stop bothering people while you're still free of an
iron cage. Do you think you're able to do that, because from what i read
of your post you don't know how to use a spell checker.
Alan S
>I have never used Usenet and didn't even realize you guys were on
>Usenet until someone mentioned it. I post from Google. IMO, I was
>harrassed big time but thats only my perception.
I am not a poster via google unless I have no choice.
I just tried an experiment; when you click on reply the list
of groups you are replying to appears in a panel. If there
is more than just alt.support.diabetes be aware that your
message is also going to all the other groups. If that is
not your aim it may be wise to delete all but
alt.support.diabetes from the list.
How many nicks will you be using here? So far
sai...@gmail.com and Glass318.
johnniemccoy@
"glass318" <glas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1185475000.7...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 26, 1:24 pm, ted rosenberg <tedrosenb...@iname.com> wrote:
>> glass318 wrote:<snip>
>>
>> > My approach is usually patient-centered that is why I am not amused by
>> > some of the assumptions here that we are always patronizing or telling
>> > patients what to do or not to do. I learn from my patients everyday.
>> > The biggest lesson I have learnt over the years is that the patient
>> > has the most power to control their disease no matter how many pills
>> > or injections a Physcian prescribes.
>>
>> <>
>> so why don't you try it here?
>
> Did you give me a chance, Teddy boy? You jumped at my throat and I had
> to fight back, wasting everybody's precious time. Anyway, let's move
> on.
>
mission to gather us, as your flock, into your protective arms and, at long
last, bestow upon us the knowledge and education we so sorely lack.... fully
expecting us to fall to our knees, arms raised in suplication towards your
saving brilliance. And now, somebody is wasting that "precious time" better
spent basking in your gracious light.
I don't think anybody cares whether, or not, you're a doctor. That's not the
point. This newsgroup is filled almost daily with links to medical resources
on every aspect of diabetes, many with the results of research too new for
most doctors to yet be aware of. Yes, of course, professionals in the
medical field are more that welcome here and are highly valued... but, if
you had lurked awhile before pouncing as a superior presence, you would have
entered the group in a much different way. You're not a doctor here,
deserving of the utmost respect... this ain't your office and we didn't come
in humbly begging your help. You're just a newbie.... that knows a lot.
JOhn
first you were on a mission to gather the flock, godlike, into your arms and
save us poor inflicted from
johnniemccoy@
> On Jul 26, 10:50 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>>
>> http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
>>
>> Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
>>
>> Andrew <><
>> --
>> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> something? Read my post again because me thinks you are just saying
> the same things I have said in more "non-layman" language. I
> personally do onot like copying and pasting and Wikipedia is not my
> primary source of mediacl information.
>
> FYI, Ketones are used by the BRAIN (and many other cells) as fuel in
> times of need--e.g. during starvation. This is ONE of the ways we
> survive prolonged periods of fasting. It is not as good as glucose but
> it is the next best thing in times of need.
>
> Didn't read anything new from your posting.
>
superior-like dissmissal of the last speaker...lol
JOhn
JOhn
johnniemccoy@
"MI" <quilch...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:C2CE6EC9.16B9F%quilch...@shaw.ca...
JOhn
johnniemccoy@
> sense, I will reply with sense (not always guaranteed but I try :-)
>
In other word, "when you children settle down I'll grace you with my
knowledge."
>
> Anyway, I hope we can talk Diabetes now.
>
education."
DonnaB shallotpeel
<froia3he0ac6e8hhp...@4ax.com>, Alan S
<loralgtwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:13:05 -0700, sai...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >I have never used Usenet and didn't even realize you guys were on
> >Usenet until someone mentioned it. I post from Google. IMO, I was
> >harrassed big time but thats only my perception.
>
> I am not a poster via google unless I have no choice.
>
> I just tried an experiment; when you click on reply the list
> of groups you are replying to appears in a panel. ...
At that point you used to easily, very easily, be able to delete any
newsgroups you didn't want to be posted to. I'm not looking at it right this
second, ... is it still easily possible to cut out the unwanted & improper &
inappropriate cross-posts?
--
DonnaB shallotpeel
"I cannot escape Tom Cruise." - Veronica, VERONICA MARS, 'Russkie Business',
02-22-05
Julie Bove
<sai...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185487867.8...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Ok. Surprising, but I have a sense of humour. The Teddy Boy thing was
> supposed to be funny. I guess I will be producing ketones as a comic.
> I hope Teddy Boy laughed about it.
I fail to see how that could be funny. Do you know what a Teddy Boy is?
Andy is Evil
news:0Ocqi.84$jo5...@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com:
> Andy is Evil wrote:
>> jb <j...@dallas.global.net> wrote in
>> news:Zb2qi.53210$5j1....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net:
>>
>>> Andy is Evil wrote:
>> a thoroughly delighful summary of one of Andrew's posts.
>>>> Andy is Evil
>>>>
>>>> **NJ-->NutJob,WOKA-->Winner Of K00K Awards,SCM-->Sad Counter Monkey
>>> And this is called stalking.
>>
>>> I have collected several of your posts now harrassing this man, and
>>> you have failed on a constant basis to prove anything against him.
>>
>> You do realise that by your definition you've just admitted to stalking
>> me.
>
> I realize that you should turn on your spell checker before you try
> again to impress me with your arrogance and malice.
Spell checker, shmell checker... natural is best.
Malice? Moi? Amusement at your ineptitude at best. Other people might at
this point construct an elaborate and soul destroying flame with
references about your parenthood and unnatural sexual proclivities,
particularly regarding your siblings and animals. Personally, I just find
you too small to bother.
Okay sparky, I'm gonna type real slow for yuh just sos yuh git tuh anser
the questin you snippied truthfully.
Why do you support the repeated net abuse of Andrew B. Chung ?
Why do you support his use of many sockpuppets ?
Why do you support his posting off-topic?
Why do you support his spamming ?
>
snippity
> Your posts,> your handle and your responses to Andrew bear out the
deliberate design of a campaign of harassment and defamation.
Andrew defames himself every time he SPAMS his SCAM over sci.med and
support groups. He reduces his standing every time he replies
disingenuously. He demon-strates his abuse every time he creates a new
sockpuppet to get past peoples kill files. I am merely highlighting his
actions.
Now before your head falls to one side and you start drooling again, I'll
repeat the questions just in case you missed them. Do answer them because
I'm sure the readers in the alt.support and sci.med groups that Andrew has
been abusing would love an answer.
Why do you support the repeated net abuse of Andrew B. Chung ?
Why do you support his use of many sockpuppets ?
Why do you support his posting off-topic?
Why do you support his spamming ?
Andy is Evil, but jb is a cunt.
(I've read that using the c-word really gets the zealots jumping up and
down - tee hee)
krom
resonable.....if i see people responding the the help he is giving i may
unblock..untill then he wasting everyones time.
Also passin the KF with a new name doesnt inspire confidence..smacks of a
bizarre neediness for attention...
So far this what?... a week now.. and not a single post of help or support
to anyone.
KROM
"Måck©®" <tro...@renotworthsaving.net> wrote in message
news:or7ia355mq808brut...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:20:03 -0000, glass318 <glas...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>krom, is your real name Thomas? Forever the doubter. lol
>
> you still have a long way to go and a lot to learn before you
> establish any trust or credibility.
>
> and you did it to yourself.
>
>
> --
> Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
> Type 1 since 1975
> http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
> http://www.diabetic-talk.org
> http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
> http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
>
>
>
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the
> President, or that we are to stand by the President
> right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
> but is morally treasonable to the American public."
> ...Theodore Roosevelt
>
> (o ô)
> --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
>
> "I don't know half of you
> half as well as I should like;
> and I like less than half of you
> half as well as you deserve."
> ....Bilbo Baggins
>
>
> DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
> offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
> If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
> me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
> .
krom
He referes to me as doubting thomas a biblical reference...
So he has a real messiah complex this guy...
Sad really..
Will, T2
<thekromre...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Wow what a wierdo..he knows i gothim killfilled and my statement was
>resonable.....if i see people responding the the help he is giving i may
>unblock..untill then he wasting everyones time.
>Also passin the KF with a new name doesnt inspire confidence..smacks of a
>bizarre neediness for attention...
>So far this what?... a week now.. and not a single post of help or support
>to anyone.
>
>KROM
That would be how I assess the situation, also, Krom... I am
beginning to think this person may have posted here previously under a
different name. He/it reminds me of someone ....
Will, T2
Will, T2
wrote:
>That would be how I assess the situation, also, Krom... I am
>beginning to think this person may have posted here previously under a
>different name. He/it reminds me of someone ....
Sorta like a needy, yapping, little dog....
Will, T2
Nicky
<loralgtwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>When I download messages I do it twice. The first time
>around it shows messages received in all my "crosspost
>killer" groups. The second time around they magically
>disappear as they get "marked read" and they are also marked
>read in asd.
Same setup - except that I only view unread messages in asd. Cuts down
on about 80% of the rubbish.
Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
Will, T2
On 26-Jul-2007, MI <quilch...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> This is the third post I have noticed under this addy. Are we no longer
> made
> of Glass or am I the confused one?
>
> Martha T2 Canada
Hi Martha,
No telling who/what he/it will morph into next..... This sad psycho is
trying to evade KFs....
Will, T2
Cheri
Will, T2 wrote in message
<0kkja3hoq7oh565kl...@4ax.com>...
>That would be how I assess the situation, also, Krom... I am
>beginning to think this person may have posted here previously under
a
>different name. He/it reminds me of someone ....
>
>Will, T2
Reminds me of someone too, but I can't quite put my finger on who.
Cheri
Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
> I fail to see how that could be funny. Do you know what a Teddy Boy is?
I don't think that expression is used in the US - it's just a UK
thing.
gu...@consolidated.net
Has anyone considered removing the GL from
the moniker used here. I am bored by this thread.
Quiet Neighbor
Schizophrenia is a tragic illness, and some pity or compassion would be in
order.
I have seen Chung posts, and he may, indeed, be schizophrenic.
Most schizophrenics are harmless.
QN
<Flying Rat>; "consultant in Earthquackery" <chung.i...@privacy.net>
wrote in message news:MPG.2112f6ccb...@news.readfreenews.net...
> In article <1185465008....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> and...@emorycardiology.com says...
>> Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
>
> Andrew Chung:
>
> Is a frequent and proven liar (evidence archived forever on Google)
>
> Has lost numerous NNTP accounts with supernews and others, has had many
> Google accounts nuked, and his vanity domain heartmdphd.com is now
> banned from setting up accounts. He is instead using multiple Google
> sock accounts and email addresses in the format love#@thetruth.com (#
> being a number)
>
> Is unemployed after being sacked with cause from his one and only job
> after just over 80 days
>
> Fled the state of Florida, and now claims to practice in Georgia despite
> having no admission priveliges in the State's hospitals
>
> Runs a phony foundation with a total declared income of circa $200, the
> ownership and contact details of which are obfuscated on its website
>
> Makes failed prophecies concerning earthquakes with areas and dates,
> which don't happen (remember the bible quotes about false prophets)
>
> Performed a public attempt at 'exorcising' a Malaysian sock on usenet,
> then denied doing it. He has recently reversed position again and admits
> to practicing exorcism by usenet, proving himself a liar in the process.
>
> Promotes a dangerous diet, with a million dollar guarantee that he
> demands thirty dollars to access details of. This despite being
> unemployed. His soliciting and spamming for donations looks to be
> similar to the Nigerian Advance Fee Fraud, where victims pay money
> upfront in the hope of coming into riches but find they have merely
> bought into a lie. Part of his advice is to pour nail polish remover onto
> food.
>
> Declares he has a cardiology practice despite posting night and day from
> the same IP address (his home presumably) or a coffee shop internet cafe
>
> Makes further false prophecies that we should now be all dying in a bird
> flu pandemic. When these fail to happen, he does them all over again and
> changes the dates. Nuclear war is another Chung spciality, which
> naturally doesn't happen when he says it is going to.
>
> Worships evil hatemonger Fred Phelps and will not denounce the acts of
> Westboro's congregation. He even accuses someone with the name Phelps of
> being Fred's son and refuses to accept he is completely wrong.
>
> Uses the same patter as Pat Robertson, indicating his religious activity
> is confined to watching cable TV. No evidence Chung has ever attended a
> church.
>
> Has a tendency to cyberstalk, particularly women. His wife fled some
> time ago to another state, an act which Chung tries to pass off as "being
> on vacation".
>
> Frequently passes himself off as being qualified in areas such as
> endocrinology, despite making incredibly fundamental blunders in his
> 'advice'. It is no wonder the Florida heart facility terminated him, and
> has publicly denounced his version of events. Again archived on Google.
>
> Don't forget the fake fast, where he didn't lose any weight, as well as
> the infamous 666 stamping fiasco. His latest vile trick is spamming the
> blogs of dying cancer patients and then crowing triumphantly when they
> pass away.
Jeff
ketone bodies as sources of energy.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?rid=bnchm.section.2244
So glucose is not the the exclusive fuel for the brain. There isn't one.
jeff
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> Although the brain won't work without glucose, the brain normally uses
> ketone bodies as sources of energy.
Your Ford automobile likely uses its battery as a source of energy.
This does not change the fact that gasoline is the fuel.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?rid=bnchm.section.2244
>
> So glucose is not the the exclusive fuel for the brain. There isn't one.
It logically follows from the simple fact that the brain quits working
without glucose that it is exclusively the "fuel" for the brain.
Truth is simple.
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist
> jeff
Julie Bove
"Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley" <cowar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1185551603.9...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
I know.
johnniemccoy@
"Will, T2" <wmm...@cox.net> wrote in message
> ... I am
> beginning to think this person may have posted here previously under a
> different name. He/it reminds me of someone ....
>
> Will, T2
>
JOhn
ted rosenberg
his posts. I ignore them
Cary Kittrell
> 194.177.96.78> <0Ocqi.84$jo5...@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: k/EY7C4e/OBQ2SBMNI5oTw.user.aioe.org
> X-Complaints-To: ab...@aioe.org
> User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
> Xref: news.arizona.edu sci.med.cardiology:93054
For some reason I thought that `jb's post to this thread might
be of interest to you: