Gads, buy a damned clue!
mytoysdammit
bust, which I'm heartbroken (not) about. It used to be fun, but now it's
just obnoxious sproggen and breeders from all over hell and gone, and a
bunch of drunks raising hell until after midnight. At least the gods smiled
and the DJ cancelled at the last minute. They still set up the "moonwalk"
bouncer in front of MY house...
Anyway, for many years I've been doing a "dogproofing your kids" demo at the
block party. It's based on the classes I did for Army Community Svcs for
many years. The idea is to teach kids a bit about dogs while at the same
time teaching them how to behave safely around dogs.
Gryphon did his first and second demos today and all went very well. My
"class" includes what things dogs see as threatening, how to "speak" dog to
a limited degree, and what your dog is communicating by his body language.
This includes how to approach a loose and a leashed dog, asking permission
to pet, etc.
I had a shitload of adults and at least 3x as many sprogs gathered around
while I put Gryph through his paces, let kids learn the parts of a dog.
(It's always funny to make the kids take their hand and arm and "make a paw"
out of it<g>). I coached the kids on approaching dogs, did some situations,
etc. Going great--responsive group of kids and they're really getting it.
Fast forward to about 2 hours later...a little girl still in diapers (and
nothing else) comes toddling up to me and politely says, "pet doggie?" I
say, just a minute, tell Gryph to sit, and give her permission to pet him.
No problem, you'd think....
Except that her dumbass duhd, who should've been booted out of the beer
cooler hours before (Gryph does NOT like people "under the influence" be it
booze or drugs), must've turned around from his card game, realized he
couldn't see his kid that he was supposed to be watching, and came hauling
ass up to us yelling at the child. The child started crying. Gryph had a
frigging fit--he never tried to bite, but he by-gods lunged in front of me
hackled up and with teeth bared. The toddler ducked behind us.
I've now got a bit of a problem. I've got Gryph who is pretty sure this guy
is dangerous. I've got a toddler who is acting like this guy IS dangerous.
I've got a drunk duhd yelling and carrying on, and I've got 80+ lbs of GSD
inbetween duhd and the rest of us.
Gryph did "down" when ordered, but the LOOK he gave duhd when I handed over
that kid was purely poisonous. So...fine...
I just dragged in off my porch after getting an earful from duhd and a few
of his equally moronic buddies about my "vicious dog", blahblahblah...
Luckily, one of my neighbors is a watch commander in our police precinct. HE
came ambling by. He KNOWS Gryphon pretty well (in fact, he helped with
getting Gryph used to uniforms, sirens, etc.) He told the morons to GTFO my
porch...
Thing is, the KIDS were just fine--it was the goddamned parents...and that
is usually the case, isn't it?
kat
--
"I would've been a terrible mother, because I'm basically a very selfish
human being. Not that that has stopped most people from going off and having
children." Kate Hepburn
Lee (the older one)
> ...
> Thing is, the KIDS were just fine--it was the goddamned parents...and
> that is usually the case, isn't it?
>
> kat
>
lingo about how the evil CF hate the ch!ldren, completely failing to
understand that THEY themselves are the problem. Seems to me that behind
every sprog that inspires a rant there is a p@rent that isn't doing its
job. Behind every sprog fussing quietly in a restaurant is a p@rent
ignoring its obligation and responsibilities. Behind every sizzler is
p@rent who just didn't give a damn about the future it created.
Sometimes I think this group should be called
"alt.support.child&p@rentfree."
Lee, feeling cranky tonight
P.S. Kat, hope you and Gryph have put this nastiness behind you.
mytoysdammit
"Lee (the older one)" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns93D9D1...@130.133.1.4...
> >
> Yes, it seems that it is. The p@rents come here spewing the usual bingo
> lingo about how the evil CF hate the ch!ldren, completely failing to
> understand that THEY themselves are the problem. Seems to me that behind
> every sprog that inspires a rant there is a p@rent that isn't doing its
> job. Behind every sprog fussing quietly in a restaurant is a p@rent
> ignoring its obligation and responsibilities. Behind every sizzler is
> p@rent who just didn't give a damn about the future it created.
>
> Sometimes I think this group should be called
> "alt.support.child&p@rentfree."
>
> Lee, feeling cranky tonight
Sing it! DH actually started doing this because he had facial scarring from
a dog bite that happened when he rushed up and hugged a strange dog as a
toddler. He loved dogs and knew as an adult that he'd "done this to
himself". The dog that bit him was destroyed out of hand. He wanted to both
teach kids how to enjoy dogs safely and prevent other dogs being killed for
natural behaviors/reactions.
I took it over when our gov't insisted on sending DH to every freakin' petty
civil war going on in a 3rd world country
Today really drove that home as I had a newly mobile, barely verbal girl
sprog who had understood what I was demonstrating and handled everything
perfectly. SHE "got it". Her idiot sire didn't!
>
> P.S. Kat, hope you and Gryph have put this nastiness behind you.
Not a problem--Gryphon is not easily traumatized. On the couple of occasions
where he's misinterpreted something and "gone off", I've made an effort to
work with socializing him to that situation (garbagemen being an
example--Gryph LOVES garbage given the opportunity--these strange, uniformed
people in the big truck were stealing HIS garbage!<g>)
In this case, his response was perfectly as it should have been: he hit the
"3 Ws": watch, warn, and ward. He did not attempt to bite and he responded
immediately to my commands.
Thing is we have a lot of GSDs in our 'hood. The bulk of them "live out" and
are kept in the yards and garages. The bulk of them are 200 dollar backyard
puppies bred for $$$ only. They do not come from breeding selected for
mental soundness, let alone physical soundness. The dogs are neglected,
bored, unaltered, and untrained. They ARE dangerous.
Gryphon? Well...yeah, he's dangerous too, but he's dangerous in the sense of
a handgun being dangerous--he has the potential to kill someone, but a human
has to make that decision for him unless "his" human is incapacitated and
life is threatened.
He didn't react today out of any atavistic desire to protect a child. He
reacted as he did because *I* reacted initially on a gut level as though the
duhd was a threat to the kid. Plus, if the kid was ducking behind ME and I
was allowing it, then yes...it was his "job" to fend off the duhd.
Lucky thing is that the head honchos in the PD and FD all know Gryphon
"personally". The PD folks know his breeding (basically the same as their
K-9's) and have played with Gryph since he was a baby.
He's not perfect--he's very sensitive emotionally, and he sometimes gets
confused in stressful situations. But, he's still young, and he's a damned
good dog...
Imagine this one--imagine telling your typical breeder-sow that your dog was
"well worth the nearly 2K he cost me with shipping and paperwork".
Yah...2K....and worth every stinking penny.
kat
Todd Isaac
mytoysdammit wrote:
.
>
> Fast forward to about 2 hours later...a little girl still in diapers (and
> nothing else) comes toddling up to me and politely says, "pet doggie?" I
> say, just a minute, tell Gryph to sit, and give her permission to pet him.
> No problem, you'd think....
Is Gryph good with kids? Are GSD? I had a dobie name Nikki she wasn't
good with toddlers because of the eye level thing. I could but Nikki in
the heel and sit position and keep her under control. But if the kid
established eye contact, then Nikki took it as a challenge and there
would be trouble. I alway had to instruct sprogs to first be in front
of the dog with head and eyes down, then move to the side to pet, but
still be within the dog periphy.
The other problem I had with adults and sprogs was handshaking. If we
shook hands with both are arms fully extended then it was okay, but if
it was a close handshake, Nikki would take it as an invasion of my
personal space, and would go for the persons hand.
I never forget the time when I had Nikki loose in the yard my
step-father came to me from behind and put his hands on my shoulders, I
wasn't excepted it and it gave me a little shook, next thing I know
Nikki was going after my step-father. We quickly calmed the situation
down. But after that I was always very careful about people and my
personal space, with Nikki around.
...
>
> Thing is, the KIDS were just fine--it was the goddamned parents...and that
> is usually the case, isn't it?
>
Happens a lot. Well behaved children and mis-behaving adults. I call it
the do as I say not as I do form of parenting. They taught their
children to behave but don't do it themselves.
I remember at a family reunion, a little girl sprog was eating at the
table and got excited when she saw her aunt come in. Her father quickly
admonished her for improper table manners, and talking with her mouth foul.
Later as we were eating desert and the kids have left the table, the
father was shouting at his wife in the other room with crumbs spewing
from his mouth. His mother who saw this said, am I going to have to read
you the same riot act you just read your daughter? It is always funny
to see a grown man admonished by his mommy.
sydenhams chorea
news:bhmgjk$t1p$1...@slb9.atl.mindspring.net...
Perspective is a funny thing, isn't it? You see a faithful, well trained
dog, responding appropriately to a potentially violent situation. I see a
rabid out-of-control hound barely under the control of its owner.
As I'm of the 'one bite, one lethal injection' school of animal husbandry, I
doubt there is much common ground between us. Nevertheless,
congratulations on an abortive attempt to integrate your rabid hound with
the human world. Pity it all went pear shaped.
Jo.
Matthew Mazerowski
> "mytoysdammit" <do2co...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:bhmgjk$t1p$1...@slb9.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> Perspective is a funny thing, isn't it? You see a faithful, well trained
> dog, responding appropriately to a potentially violent situation. I see a
> rabid out-of-control hound barely under the control of its owner.
>
You will never be in taht situation. You are nothing but a English
tax sucking never leave the house bon bon chomper. You will never see
a dog except you. Bark for some for me.
Deet
the following offal:
>Pity it all went pear shaped.
>
>
> Jo.
.. kind of like your ass? or more like your head?
db
Sassy Rebel Pat
>Except that her dumbass duhd, who should've been booted out of the beer
>cooler hours before (Gryph does NOT like people "under the influence" be it
>booze or drugs), must've turned around from his card game, realized he
>couldn't see his kid that he was supposed to be watching, and came hauling
>ass up to us yelling at the child. The child started crying. Gryph had a
>frigging fit--he never tried to bite, but he by-gods lunged in front of me
>hackled up and with teeth bared. The toddler ducked behind us.
>
>I've now got a bit of a problem. I've got Gryph who is pretty sure this guy
>is dangerous. I've got a toddler who is acting like this guy IS dangerous.
>I've got a drunk duhd yelling and carrying on, and I've got 80+ lbs of GSD
>inbetween duhd and the rest of us.
My GSDs would have reacted pretty much the same way. They actually
like kids and are protective of them (and me) even if they haven't
been around them too much.
I once had to tell a friend to put a squealing kid down (they were
playing and he was hanging the kid upside down which was fine with the
kid) as one of my dogs was not sure that what said friend was doing
was okay even though I told him it was. Maybe the squealing was
annoying. <g>. No hackling or teeth baring, but the dog definitely
was not happy about what was going on and was concerned. Better to
not have a 90 pound dog too concerned. Same dog was also protective
of my mother who was rather frail and not in good health and would
stay between her and anyone who came into the house.
mytoysdammit
"Sassy Rebel Pat" <horserac...@horsey.prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:4v20kvs2v05nreoi8...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:00:52 -0500, "mytoysdammit" wrote:
>
>
> My GSDs would have reacted pretty much the same way. They actually
> like kids and are protective of them (and me) even if they haven't
> been around them too much.
because he really worries about accidentally stepping on one or knocking one
down.
>
> I once had to tell a friend to put a squealing kid down (they were
> playing and he was hanging the kid upside down which was fine with the
> kid) as one of my dogs was not sure that what said friend was doing
> was okay even though I told him it was. Maybe the squealing was
> annoying. <g>. No hackling or teeth baring, but the dog definitely
> was not happy about what was going on and was concerned.
much like the panicked/pain squeal of a puppy in trouble. I think the
reaction is pretty instinctive, especially in dogs that are naturally
protective toward puppies, which Gryphon certainly is (too much so, the pups
at the day care think he's a huge, hairy, self-propelled chewtoy<G>)
Better to
> not have a 90 pound dog too concerned. Same dog was also protective
> of my mother who was rather frail and not in good health and would
> stay between her and anyone who came into the house.
>
Interesting, Gryphon is this way with my mother who is pushing 70 and has
some health problems. She NOT frail, but Gryphon tends to follow her
everywhere and gets very nervous when she's on the stairs, etc. Drives my
mother nuts as she's not really an animal lover at the best of times, and
Gryph worships her, LoL.
I was, in a strange way, glad that Hanni died before Stu got so sick. He'd
already been diagnosed but hadn't started to fail yet. Hanni was incredibly
bonded to Stu (he was her Schutzhund and SAR handler as well), and I really
think she would've freaked out--she was already so protective of him.
Kat
tzo...@hotmail.com
What head?
Madia, curious
"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has
already earned my contempt. He has been given a large
brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would
suffice." Albert Einstein
Sassy Rebel Pat
>Gryph is OK with kids, though toddlers give him a slight case of the willies
>because he really worries about accidentally stepping on one or knocking one
>down.
Not a lot of toddler encounters - although there was that special
toddlingthing boy that threatened to hit Fred when he was a puppy.
Fred is very mild mannered and just looked at him quizzically while I
told the kid that he better not hit the puppy. That woke up the
mother who got him back with her.
I think that my female GSD could earn some money as a chaparone! She
was not too happy when a male teensprog started chasing a female
neighbor teensprog one day. It was all in play, but I suspect that
she thought the female was a former neighbor who this young girl
resembles at a distance (similar build and light hair color). After
the chase stopped, she was fine, but she was very ready to take action
and she's not human aggressive at all. Same alertness that my old
male had with the dangled kid - the 'if I assess the situation and
need to take action, I will do so' thing that I see in GSDs. Which
can make them a PITA but also makes them a good partner.
>I've seen this too. Thing is that the "happy" squealing of children sounds
>much like the panicked/pain squeal of a puppy in trouble. I think the
>reaction is pretty instinctive, especially in dogs that are naturally
>protective toward puppies, which Gryphon certainly is (too much so, the pups
>at the day care think he's a huge, hairy, self-propelled chewtoy<G>)
Yup. My old Bulldog was once convinced that he really needed to help
out some puppies on tv. <G>
And if you 'yip' when a dog mouths too hard in play, most will have a
similar reaction and stop.
>Interesting, Gryphon is this way with my mother who is pushing 70 and has
>some health problems. She NOT frail, but Gryphon tends to follow her
>everywhere and gets very nervous when she's on the stairs, etc. Drives my
>mother nuts as she's not really an animal lover at the best of times, and
>Gryph worships her, LoL.
Maybe he senses something?
A lot of people were afraid of my old male GSD. Mostly because of his
size, I think. He was oversized and had health problems due to that.
I had an a/c tech refuse to enter the house because of him and all the
dog was doing was standing there quietly and politely.
>I was, in a strange way, glad that Hanni died before Stu got so sick. He'd
>already been diagnosed but hadn't started to fail yet. Hanni was incredibly
>bonded to Stu (he was her Schutzhund and SAR handler as well), and I really
>think she would've freaked out--she was already so protective of him.
They understand more than we know. I had to do CPR and had the
paramedics here when my mother died and was concerned about them being
protective of her. They were more curious. I think that they knew
she was gone and that we weren't hurting her.
puppe...@hotmail.com
I thought I was the only one. Look, the dog started putting on
a huge threat display because somebody ran up to it. Shit, in
my book, that dog is *not* trained at all.
Dog owners are sometimes sensible, but I don't seem to meet them.
I bet the OP lets the mutt run around loose in the park, too.
Socks
mytoysdammit
"Aleks A.-Lessmann" <al...@lessmann-consulting.com> wrote in message
news:mje1kv4gkjp15om31...@4ax.com...
Anyway, for many years I've been doing a "dogproofing your kids" demo at the
> >block party. It's based on the classes I did for Army Community Svcs for
>
> definitely ROCK!
>
I'm trying to take this to PetsMart, etc. but I have to provide my own
insurance, and...*yikes!*
> >Luckily, one of my neighbors is a watch commander in our police precinct.
HE
>
> are known for throwing poisoned meat around. While I suppose your dog's
> also been educated on that kinda stuff (never take anything from
> strangers without Alpha's consent), just keep an eye on that jewel of a
> canine for me, willya?
>
Yes, Gryphon is poison-proofed and will not take food from anyone if not
given permission, nor will he eat anything he finds in the yard unless he
snuck it out there and buried it<g>.
I have a real advantage in that Gryphon has never eaten commercial dry or
canned dog food, nor has he had much exposure to things most dogs think are
treats. He's never had a hot dog, and refused it the one time I offered. He
won't eat most of the "Junk food" type treats and doesn't much like cooked
meat. He's not a food motivated dog--he's more "toy" motivated. I suspect an
"invader" could do about anything if they played with Gryphon with THE HOSE,
LoL.
This, however, has not stopped him from counter-surfing half a pizza the
other night<g>
kat (apparently stealing from the alpha bitch is OK, or is at least OK when
alpha is LHAO because "busted" dog is wearing a pizza box on his head)
> >Thing is, the KIDS were just fine--it was the goddamned parents...and
that
> >is usually the case, isn't it?
>
> Sigh.
>
> Aleks
> ---
> "I have no doubt that the fundamental problem the planet
> faces is the enormous increase of the human population"
> David Attenborough
mytoysdammit
> On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:47:14 -0500, "mytoysdammit" wrote:
>
>> Not a lot of toddler encounters - although there was that special
> toddlingthing boy that threatened to hit Fred when he was a puppy.
> Fred is very mild mannered and just looked at him quizzically while I
> told the kid that he better not hit the puppy. That woke up the
> mother who got him back with her.
>
the one who grabbed him by the tongue a while back. He doesn't threaten her,
but does sit down on his tail with his tail, ears, eyes, and tongue all
hidden, squeezed shut, laid flat...basically anything grabbable is hidden.
> I think that my female GSD could earn some money as a chaparone! She
> was not too happy when a male teensprog started chasing a female
> neighbor teensprog one day. It was all in play, but I suspect that
> she thought the female was a former neighbor who this young girl
> resembles at a distance (similar build and light hair color). After
> the chase stopped, she was fine, but she was very ready to take action
> and she's not human aggressive at all. Same alertness that my old
> male had with the dangled kid - the 'if I assess the situation and
> need to take action, I will do so' thing that I see in GSDs. Which
> can make them a PITA but also makes them a good partner.
>
> >I've seen this too. Thing is that the "happy" squealing of children
sounds
> >much like the panicked/pain squeal of a puppy in trouble. I think the
> >reaction is pretty instinctive, especially in dogs that are naturally
> >protective toward puppies, which Gryphon certainly is (too much so, the
pups
> >at the day care think he's a huge, hairy, self-propelled chewtoy<G>)
>
> Yup. My old Bulldog was once convinced that he really needed to help
> out some puppies on tv. <G>
>
> And if you 'yip' when a dog mouths too hard in play, most will have a
> similar reaction and stop.
>
>
> A lot of people were afraid of my old male GSD. Mostly because of his
> size, I think. He was oversized and had health problems due to that.
> I had an a/c tech refuse to enter the house because of him and all the
> dog was doing was standing there quietly and politely.
>
house. He's just big and rather forbidding looking as he's that very dark
black and "red" you see on the "police dogs". I'll crate him if people are
nervous around him, so long as I don't want them to be nervous.<g>
Funny thing is that Hanni was 2/3 Gryph's size, sharper than hell (serious
working dog), and people usually didn't even believe she was a fullbred GSD
because of her coloration and size (plus she was a "roh-haarig" dog with the
very short upstanding coat--more like on a Malinois)
mytoysdammit
>
> >This, however, has not stopped him from counter-surfing half a pizza the
> >other night<g>
>
Ami slang for what dogs that can stand up on their hind legs and reach the
kitchen counter or table do when there is forbidden food on the counter.
>
> >kat (apparently stealing from the alpha bitch is OK, or is at least OK
when
> >alpha is LHAO because "busted" dog is wearing a pizza box on his head)
>
Cori
> "Aleks A.-Lessmann" <al...@lessmann-consulting.com> wrote in message
> news:dl44kvs9icke7pb14...@4ax.com...
>
>>>This, however, has not stopped him from counter-surfing half a pizza the
>>>other night<g>
>>
>>Counter surfing? Erm, care to explain?
>
> Ami slang for what dogs that can stand up on their hind legs and reach the
> kitchen counter or table do when there is forbidden food on the counter.
Have any of yours stolen anything from a closed refrigerator?
My parent's Great Pyrenees got the easter ham one year, and she
frequently counter surfed....
Cori
mytoysdammit
"Cori" <no...@noplace.gov> wrote in message
news:3F42CD14...@noplace.gov...
> mytoysdammit wrote:
> > "Aleks A.-Lessmann" <al...@lessmann-consulting.com> wrote in message
> > news:dl44kvs9icke7pb14...@4ax.com...
> >
> My parent's Great Pyrenees got the easter ham one year, and she
> frequently counter surfed....
>
> Cori
>
door for just this very reason.
Gryphon got very into opening the fridge and choosing his own "complete
meal".
Kat
mytoysdammit
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:17:46 GMT, mytoysdammit wrote:
>>
> Ah! DING! Surfing on the counter, NOT counter (some sort of against)
> surfing.
>
> My cats do that all the time. Surf, sniff, NO!, damn...
>
> Aleks
*snerk* sorry about that. Reminds me of my grandmother who left Lithuania to
come to Britain in the 40's and came to America in '58. She, like a lot of
folks from "the pale", spoke about 7 different slavic languages. She decided
to learn to speak English by doing crossword puzzles.
The following quote is from an encounter I remember from 35 years ago when
grandmother got a bit confused doing a crossword puzzle: "Sure. Sugar. Sit.
Stand. Thought. Cough. Slough(Sloo). Slough (sluff). Enough. The problem
with English isn't that you have too many words. The problem with English is
you don't have enough LETTERS!"
We have so many words that sound/are spelled the same but have different
meanings because the original root words came from different languages. Add
in the whole mess with strong and weak verbs...ugh...I'm a language freak
and believe me, German is EASY compared to English.
kat
Kent
> I was raised in a country that has male and female nouns, no casus, and
> is almost read as it's written. Ok, the verbs hurt, but they do in any
> language...
What do you mean "no cases"? German (if that's what you're talking about,
since you said you are a "native speaker") has Nominative, Accusatuive,
Genitive, and Dative. Or do you mean something else, like Dutch?
Kent