Estrogens and aggressive Pca - new research
Mik...@anon.com
Here is the opening para.:
ScienceDaily (May 29, 2008) — Using a breakthrough technology,
researchers led by a Weill Cornell Medical College scientist have
pinpointed the hormone estrogen as a key player in about half of all
prostate cancers.'
Here is another - (and genes is gonna be the answer one day):
"That led us to perform the largest gene-expression microarray
analysis yet conducted in prostate cancer research, amassing
information on more than 6,000 genes," Dr. Rubin says. "This allowed
us to obtain a robust, 87-gene expression 'signature' that
distinguishes fusion-positive TMPRSS2-ERG cancers from other prostate
malignancies."
Over.
Best wishes to all
Alan Meyer
<Mik...@anon.com> wrote in message
news:5pbu34lok2t63dmlf...@4ax.com...
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080527183009.htm
> ...
The article says that aggressive prostate cancer cells have
estrogen receptors that take up estrogens from the blood
stream and this "encourages" the development of the cancer.
This is really surprising because estrogens (there are several
hormones with similar chemical structures that are all called
"estrogens") are also used to treat prostate cancer.
It seems like a contradiction to me, though it won't be the
first time that science surprises us.
Alan
Mik...@anon.com
wrote:
Alan
I'm confused too for the same reasons. Reading it again, though...
The article states that prostate cancer cells by a "process called
hypermethylation"...." shut down genes for the estrogen receptors
where the drugs act." Cells in 'late-stage' Pca.."...displayed no
estrogen receptors."
Further down the article: "Genetics researchers have studied
hypermethylation for years, Dahiya said, and they know how to prevent
it. This raises the hope that tumors that are resistant to hormone
therapy could be made vulnerable again."
So the message is actually positive - they know how to allow the
estrogens to work again. So HT could then become effective for a
longer time. Using the de-methylating agents .....for ever?...
My best wishes to all.
MikeHi
"Exponential lightspeed". Def: The discovery of the cure for Pca at a
speed which defies Einstein.
Alan Meyer
news:11ev34hav9r6vq3sl...@4ax.com...
> ...
> "Exponential lightspeed". Def: The discovery of the cure for Pca at a
> speed which defies Einstein.
As I understand it, what's being discussed here is very basic
science - "basic" in the sense of pure research far divorced from
applications. I fear that we're not going to get too close to
the light speed barrier in developing cures based on this
research.
Nevertheless, I think this kind of basic research is exactly what
is most needed in the long term.
Alan
Mik...@anon.com
wrote:
><Mik...@anon.com> wrote in message
It's a motto. It doesn't apply to one specific piece of research.
Exponential growth I firmly believe applies now to Pca genetic
research discoveries. Much as it has done in computers since Moore's
Law was first expounded in the 60's. So I have a hope, driven by that
strong belief, that Pca sufferers will find a solution much earlier
than most now suspect. i.e your 'long term' may be shorter than you
think.
Best wishes
MikeHi
WhiteSoxFan
I am going to throw out a ridiculous statement here going on pure
intuition and nothing else prefaced with an analogy. Remember those
strange little things in High School Biology the Hydra? If I remember
right those little buggers have the ability to turn their outer cells
into inner cells and vice versa effectively turning themselves inside
out. Those were one of the more primitive organisms which we somewhere
down the line most likely inherited some traits and perhaps share some
DNA. I am more convinced than ever after all the contradictory studies
on pCA that Estrogen both destroys and feeds it. Ditto for
Testosterone.
WhiteSoxFan
Ed Friedman
>
> I am going to throw out a ridiculous statement here going on pure
> intuition and nothing else prefaced with an analogy. Remember those
> strange little things in High School Biology the Hydra? If I remember
> right those little buggers have the ability to turn their outer cells
> into inner cells and vice versa effectively turning themselves inside
> out. Those were one of the more primitive organisms which we somewhere
> down the line most likely inherited some traits and perhaps share some
> DNA. I am more convinced than ever after all the contradictory studies
> on pCA that Estrogen both destroys and feeds it. Ditto for
> Testosterone.
>
> WhiteSoxFan
WhiteSoxFan,
Your statement is not at all ridiculous, but is in fact what I have been
trying to explain to people on this newsgroup for years. If you check
my most recent paper at http://www.tbiomed.com/content/4/1/28, it is
quite clear that testosterone, estrogen and progesterone can be either
helpful, harmful, or not do much at all. It all depends on the amount
of each hormone receptor within the prostate cancer cell. Each hormone
has receptors that acts in contradictory manner (in effect the cells
drive with one foot on the gas pedal and one foot on the brake pedal).
Since in vivo you are dealing with a heterogenous population, even if
99% of the cancer cells die in the presence of any one hormone, the 1%
left will thrive in that environment. Also, for different individuals,
one hormone treatment might initially be extremely helpful and for
another be extremely hurtful.
Ed Friedman
Charlie Aloha
I took the time to read over your paper that you referenced in your
comments, and I can't say I understand it all; I am trying to relate
how it might relate to my current treatment and supplements I'm
taking. You go into extensive detail about various interactions, but
I also realize that many of these things can vary on an individual
basis and in different stages of therapy.
I had gleason 7 pc, went through SI + EBRT, and after a few years had
a fairly rapidly rising psa. I recently started ADT3 (zoladex,
casodex & avodart), and so far so good with psa < 0.01. I've been
taking quite a few supplements, but because of the avodart, I stopped
taking genestein because I had read what Leibowitcz had reported, and
stopped ipriflavone because I was afraid it might have a similar
effect as genestein. But, I am not sure about any other interactions
there might possibly be between my supplements and ADT3. I am taking
calcium, vit D3, E, K, Selenium, Pomegranate extract, Green tea
extract, Indole-3-carbinol, fish oil, melatonin and strontium.
Are there any of these that might not be a good idea to be taking?
Is there anything else that I should consider adding to my list of
what I do take?
Do you know if ipriflavone counters the benefit of avodart?
Would a progesterone gel likely be helpful or harmful, or neither?
My doctor is little help in these matters, he has no opinions about
supplements, and it was a big deal to get him to go along with ADT3
instead of monotherapy. It's also a big deal to do it
intermittently .... all things he does not recommend, but is going
along with since I've been rather insistent.
Thanks for your help in this group.
Charlie P.
>
> WhiteSoxFan,
>
> Your statement is not at all ridiculous, but is in fact what I have been
> trying to explain to people on this newsgroup for years. If you check
> my most recent paper athttp://www.tbiomed.com/content/4/1/28, it is
Steve Kramer
news:4434f789-50e0-4640...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> Question for Ed Friedman (and whoever else can contribute):
Welcome Charlie.
I cannot answer your questions, and anxiously await Ed's. However, you
appear to be a new poster and I was curious as to your history like age,
PSA, and Stage at dx and when that occurred -- if you don't mind.
Also, you state you went through SI + EBRT. I'm sure I've seen "SI" before,
but my Lupron-fogged brain is stifling my ability to recall what it stands
for.
--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04, <0.05, <0.04, <0.04, <0.1 2/12/08
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
Charlie Aloha
Sorry, I should have thought of putting in a little synopsis as a
footer to my comments.
SI is for Seed Implant.
Charlie P
PSA 8 4/1/01 @ age of 57
Biopsy 9/18/01 G7 (4+3), T3a
11/2/01 ADT - Lupron (3 month) + casodex
Seed Implant + EBRT 2/5/02 at RCOG - stopped ADT
PSA .3, .1, .2, .127, .136, .160, .309, .356, .244, .39, .44, .71, .
89, 1.07, 1.12, 1.92, 3.15
3/3/08 ADT3 (Zoladex + Casodex + Avodart)
PSA .15, <.01
On Jun 7, 6:36 pm, "Steve Kramer" <skra...@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
> "Charlie Aloha" <AlohaChar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
e...@math.uchicago.edu
Charlie,
You ask very good questions. First of all, ipriflavone does not
counter the benefit of avodart. However, like all flavones, it may
bind to your estrogen receptors and increase Bcl-2 production.
Progesterone gel (or cream) will vary in benefits depending on the
individual. However, using progesterone plus RU-486 should be a
winning combination. One of the papers I cited in my paper that you
read showed that the combination of progesterone plus RU-486 killed
90% of LNCaP cells within 7 days. I suspect this is largely due to
its lowering Bcl-2 levels. When you undergo ADT your Bcl-2 levels
typically rise. Over 65% of androgen independent prostate cancers
have high Bcl-2 in them, so anything you do to lower Bcl-2, especially
while on ADT, should increase your chance for success.
I'm assuming that you plan on continual ADT for 13 months before you
stop. If you are following Dr. Leibowitz's protocl, then you will
continue with either Avodart or Proscar once you are off ADT. At this
point, the higher you can get your level of T, the better. I don't
know any doctor other than Dr. Leibowitz who will actually do this,
but I am hoping that if my next paper gets published soon, then more
doctors will realize this.
Good luck,
Ed Friedman
Steve Kramer
> Greetings Steve:
> Sorry, I should have thought of putting in a little synopsis as a
> footer to my comments.
> SI is for Seed Implant.
>
> Charlie P
>
> PSA 8 4/1/01 @ age of 57
> Biopsy 9/18/01 G7 (4+3), T3a
> 11/2/01 ADT - Lupron (3 month) + casodex
> Seed Implant + EBRT 2/5/02 at RCOG - stopped ADT
> PSA .3, .1, .2, .127, .136, .160, .309, .356, .244, .39, .44, .71, .
> 89, 1.07, 1.12, 1.92, 3.15
> 3/3/08 ADT3 (Zoladex + Casodex + Avodart)
> PSA .15, <.01
Must have been a excruciating wait for a change in treatment.