Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
rpautrey2
Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
By Jill Rubolino
In this month of Autism Awareness, I am ever so aware of the great
disparity for our children on the autism spectrum regarding their
diagnosis and healthcare. It brings to light some major changes that
need to take place in order to not only stop the perpetual,
exponentially expanding numbers of children developing autism, but to
provide the already affected children with proper medical care and
treatment.
In a health care community that listed homosexuality as a psychiatric
disorder on the DSM until 1973, and recognizes alcoholism, addiction
and obesity as diseases, our children are suffering and being denied
proper medical attention. Not only are our doctors not acknowledging
our children’s medical ailments, they are flat out denying to us that
they are occurring or that somehow these conditions are some normal
variation of childhood.
This needs to stop immediately. It will only stop when parents demand
competent and educated pediatricians for their children and settle for
nothing less. We must no longer listen to the false and
unsubstantiated litany of canned text responses we hear from
uninformed, uneducated pediatricians and specialists. We must no
longer accept the standard answers that all refer back to one, already
discredited study, regarding vaccine safety. When pediatricians site
their references, how many parents ask them to explain that
information? How many doctors could? And yet, how many parents that we
know can site study after study, and explain biochemical abnormalities
‘til the cows come home?Autism as a diagnosis must be removed from the
DSM. Period. It is a medical disorder, with many causes, some of them
genetic and totally unrelated to a psychiatric diagnosis altogether.
Down’s syndrome is a medical diagnosis, has an identifiable genetic
abnormality, and a range of associated features also affecting that
person developmentally. It is not, however, diagnosed using the DSM.
Autism is not currently recognized as a medical disorder because, if
not diagnosed as a known genetic cause, it is a disorder caused by
environmental insult, including vaccines.
The resulting medical problems are symptoms of the underlying cause,
not the disorder itself. But because this medical disorder is caused
by vaccines given to our children by the very people who are supposed
to care for them and keep them healthy, it will not be recognized as
such. No other disorder, psychiatric or otherwise, is so blatantly
denied its medical or biochemical component except autism.
No amount of early detection or early intervention will reverse a
disease process unless it is treated medically. It is a process, that
left untreated, will perpetuate itself to variable degrees in each
individual with sometimes irreversible and devastating effects. The
medical community turning its back on basic medical principles in
treating their autistic patients’ symptoms first can only be referred
to as gross malpractice.
The pediatricians that are treating our children should be ashamed and
embarrassed at their complete negligence and incompetence in
recognizing a pattern of symptoms that is seen over and over again,
hundreds, and thousands of times in this patient population. And yet,
they cling to their outdated, obviously inadequate standard answers
and bury their heads in the sand while our children suffer and sink
deeper and deeper into Autism. Every parent of an autistic child has
heard some ridiculous, condescending statement from a physician while
they ignored that same child’s obvious vaccine reaction, or explosive
diarrhea, abdominal pain, mysterious rash, poor weight gain, reflux,
relentless fever, immune dysfunction, and on, and on. And they ignore
us, because they can.
Pediatricians, vaccine manufacturers, the CDC, and our federal
government are all protected under laws that are unconstitutional.
That’s right. Your pediatrician doesn’t have to worry about being
sued for your child’s descent into Autism after their MMR, or Proquad
because the US Federal Government says so. Even though adequate
informed consent is never provided, and protocols for vaccinating are
rarely followed appropriately.
Children get vaccinated without being screened for immune dysfunction,
mitochondrial disorders, and even when they have a febrile illness,
all inappropriate according to the vaccine makers’ own
recommendations. Yet, where are all the suits being filed for this
obvious malpractice? Because, as parents, we are spending every
waking moment and every dime we have trying to recover our children,
we have no resources to venture into this legal arena with special
masters and shorter statute of limitations. In a country where the
father of a child that resulted from a rape has a legal right to that
child, our children have no legal rights. By the time we navigate the
myriad of professionals that are deemed qualified to diagnose our
children as autistic, our statute of limitations has already expired.
It will take one individual with deep pockets and a fire burning in
their soul, to bring change. There is no exemption for gross
negligence by a physician even if it’s one of our kids. You are not
protected under the umbrella of indifference. It will only take one
case, one precedent. Change will happen.
The controversy about vaccines rages on, but only in the minds of
those officials who are themselves, responsible for the conspiracy to
conceal the truth about vaccines. All of the supposed nonexistent,
mainstream medical studies that apply to vaccines, and thimerosol,
mitochondrial disorder and dysfunction, seizure disorder, aluminum
etc. are all easily accessed by anyone with a computer and half a
brain. This may explain why the officials, that coincidentally have
some type of connection to vaccine manufacturers, cannot seem to find
them. All of the necessary medical documentation, studies,
information, case studies, etc. are there and readily available for
anyone who wasn’t deluding themselves that they can still go on
national television and tout that everything is okay. This political,
money driven quagmire will come to an end. Big tobacco took a fall
and so will vaccine pushers. And I’m thinking of one gentleman in
particular, I think we all know who that is, you will not make it off
this planet in an upward direction, sir.
I’ll leave you with the thought that for the same reasons that people
fought for civil rights, government officials are impeached, landmark
cases are won, people have overcome adversity throughout history to
affect change, we must do the same for our cause. I will pledge from
this day forward that the next time I get that look from a doctor, you
know, the placating one you get when you start to talk
gastrointestinal, I will put my foot down. I will say, “Why do you
look at me that way? Do you not believe what I am saying or are you
just not aware how negligent you have been in my child’s care? Why did
you not recommend a genetic work up for my child? Why have you not
tested his lead level before now? Why is it that while I sit here in
receipt of that condescending look, you don’t even realize that every
new piece of information I have found out about my child’s medical
condition is because I looked for it and not you? As we sit here
right now,
I know infinitely more about how to treat the medical condition of
autism than you, and quite frankly, you should be on the receiving end
of that very same look you are giving me. As we sit here and you
comment on how well my child is doing, and how far he has come, it is
only because of me, and not you, acting as his medical professional
and managing his care, and at the same time, being damn good at it.”
So pediatricians, and specialists be aware and beware. We will no
longer tolerate substandard, negligent care for our kids. And while
we might be the government’s scapegoat right now, that curtain will
come down, and they will sell you out just as fast. And then my
friends, you won’t be able to afford your malpractice insurance.
Jill Rubolino is the mother of two beautiful children, one who was
affected by vaccines and diagnosed with PDD-NOS. She, along with her
husband Richard, is currently working on her son’s recovery and
returning his body to a healthy state. Jill has been a nurse for
fifteen years and is appalled at the lack of appropriate medical care
for ASD kids. Along with friend Jeanna Reed (fellow nurse and mom to a
vaccine injured son) they plan to do something about it. Their
company, Autism Is Medical, Inc., focuses on educating doctors and
parents and bridging the gap between them. They can be found at
www.autismismedical.com.
Arak
> April 20, 2009
>
> Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
>
> By Jill Rubolino
>
> DSM. Period. It is a medical disorder, with many causes, some of them
> genetic and totally unrelated to a psychiatric diagnosis altogether.
> Down’s syndrome is a medical diagnosis, has an identifiable genetic
> abnormality, and a range of associated features also affecting that
> person developmentally. It is not, however, diagnosed using the DSM.
I agree with you... on this point *only*. I too would like to see
people stop treating it like a behaviour problem and start looking at
the whole picture. Putting it in the DSM only adds to the problem of
it being treated like a behaviour problem.
For me, autism *is* a medical issue, which in turn aggravates me and
causes coping behaviours to manifest. The hypersensitivity,
hyperacidity, nausea, pain and such that I deal with every day is the
major part of my discomfort. No one treated any of that when I was
kid. They just thought it was a behaviour problem and trained those
behaviours out.
> Autism is not currently recognized as a medical disorder because, if
> not diagnosed as a known genetic cause, it is a disorder caused by
> environmental insult, including vaccines.
This is where I stop agreeing with you. I am not seeing any convincing
empirical evidence of the vaccine/autism connection anywhere.
The only thing I see is the possible correlation because the symptoms
seem to show up around the same time vaccines are given. No feasible
proof has been provided *either way*.
The ingredient that is supposed to cause autism was taken out of
vaccines years ago. By that reason, we shouldn't be seeing a rise in
new diagnoses in children, should we?
Just because two things coincide, they are not always related. Even if
the coincidence is strong.
Have you heard of the Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy, AKA:
Correlation Fallacy?
This is when people assume that because two events coincide, that one
must be the cause of another.
A timely example: Is being on welfare the cause of child poverty, or
is it the current economic decline that sees an increase in both
people needing to go on welfare *and* the occurrence of child
poverty?
Let's look at this issue:
Do vaccines cause autism or is it just the fact that autism symptoms
and vaccines seem to occur at the same time?
What would be interesting to see is if autism would still noticeably
manifest itself at 18 - 24 months if all vaccines were given when a
child is 5 or 6 years old instead of between the ages of 18 - 24
months?
I was diagnosed autistic 12 years before I received the MMR vaccine.
(diagnosed autistic at 2 years, given MMR vaccine at 14 years) How
many others would be the same if they got that vaccine at a later
date?
Are the medical problems that certain autistic people deal with due to
problems that may occur naturally with autism or because of some sort
of damage done by vaccines?
Is there empirical proof out there for Environmental damage vs.
Physical issues being a natural part of autism?
There's still a lot of research that needs to be done before
assumptions can continue to be made.
Tell you what. Prove to me empirically, with many studies, that
vaccines cause autism and I'll consider the notion. Until then, I'm
not buying it.
As far as I'm concerned, no one knows the true cause... or even the
true treatment for that matter!
Arak /|\
Bob Badour
> On Apr 27, 9:43 am, rpautrey2 <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>April 20, 2009
>>
>>Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
>>
>>By Jill Rubolino
<snip>
>>Autism is not currently recognized as a medical disorder because, if
>>not diagnosed as a known genetic cause, it is a disorder caused by
>>environmental insult, including vaccines.
>
> This is where I stop agreeing with you. I am not seeing any convincing
> empirical evidence of the vaccine/autism connection anywhere.
Dammit! Condors cause autism. We all know that! Ever since the condors
came back from the brink of extinction, the incidence of autism in
California has risen. As the condor population increases, so does the
diagnosis of autism.
> Have you heard of the Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy, AKA:
> Correlation Fallacy?
The condors caused that too. ;)
Linda
Since there's no such thing as a mental illness the DSM needs to be
banned and it's authors IMPRISONED for perpetrating fraud on a massive
scale.
Gareeth
> April 20, 2009
>
> Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
>
Gareeth
Bob Badour
It's actually a neurological disorder not a mental disorder.
AmaranthQueen
I have to agree with you Arak, not that I mind doing so. My oldest
had a staggered vaccination schedule because of illnesses she had at
the times they normally are done. My youngest is also having a
staggered vaccination schedule. My oldest did not have her MMR until
right before she started kindergarten and she already had the same
idiosyncrasies and motor skill issues she has now.
People like having something to tag it on basically, I would
compromise and be fine with it being out of the DSM but at the same
time I'd love for the vaccine morons to shut up lol. There is more
toxins in the air we breath then in half the vaccinations we get. I
wish half the money for vaccine research went toward actual services
for people with ASD's.
Besides...we all know green jello causes Autism..sheesh
hehehe.
Hey is homosexuality still in the DSM? I found that hysterical when I
did a research paper on OCD lol.
Raving
wrote:
> Hey is homosexuality still in the DSM? I found that hysterical when I
> did a research paper on OCD lol.
Re China and sex selective abortion:
"From 1985 to 1989, for example, there were 108 boys born for every
100 girls. (The worldwide norm is about 105 boys to every 100 girls.)
By 2000 to 2004, it was 124 boys for every 100 girls, before dropping
slightly in 2005 to 120 boys for every 100 girls."
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/pomfretschina/2009/04/abortions_in_china_girls.html
Gareeth
> Hey is homosexuality still in the DSM? I found that hysterical when I
> did a research paper on OCD lol.
No. It was taken out a few versions ago.
Gareeth
Jan Drew
"rpautrey2" <rpau...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2bd0f1b-ab93-4df2...@d19g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
April 20, 2009
Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
By Jill Rubolino
In this month of Autism Awareness, I am ever so aware of the great
disparity for our children on the autism spectrum regarding their
diagnosis and healthcare. It brings to light some major changes that
need to take place in order to not only stop the perpetual,
exponentially expanding numbers of children developing autism, but to
provide the already affected children with proper medical care and
treatment.
In a health care community that listed homosexuality as a psychiatric
disorder on the DSM until 1973, and recognizes alcoholism, addiction
and obesity as diseases, our children are suffering and being denied
proper medical attention. Not only are our doctors not acknowledging
our children�s medical ailments, they are flat out denying to us that
they are occurring or that somehow these conditions are some normal
variation of childhood.
This needs to stop immediately. It will only stop when parents demand
competent and educated pediatricians for their children and settle for
nothing less. We must no longer listen to the false and
unsubstantiated litany of canned text responses we hear from
uninformed, uneducated pediatricians and specialists. We must no
longer accept the standard answers that all refer back to one, already
discredited study, regarding vaccine safety. When pediatricians site
their references, how many parents ask them to explain that
information? How many doctors could? And yet, how many parents that we
know can site study after study, and explain biochemical abnormalities
�til the cows come home?Autism as a diagnosis must be removed from the
DSM. Period. It is a medical disorder, with many causes, some of them
genetic and totally unrelated to a psychiatric diagnosis altogether.
Down�s syndrome is a medical diagnosis, has an identifiable genetic
abnormality, and a range of associated features also affecting that
person developmentally. It is not, however, diagnosed using the DSM.
Autism is not currently recognized as a medical disorder because, if
not diagnosed as a known genetic cause, it is a disorder caused by
environmental insult, including vaccines.
The resulting medical problems are symptoms of the underlying cause,
not the disorder itself. But because this medical disorder is caused
by vaccines given to our children by the very people who are supposed
to care for them and keep them healthy, it will not be recognized as
such. No other disorder, psychiatric or otherwise, is so blatantly
denied its medical or biochemical component except autism.
No amount of early detection or early intervention will reverse a
disease process unless it is treated medically. It is a process, that
left untreated, will perpetuate itself to variable degrees in each
individual with sometimes irreversible and devastating effects. The
medical community turning its back on basic medical principles in
treating their autistic patients� symptoms first can only be referred
to as gross malpractice.
The pediatricians that are treating our children should be ashamed and
embarrassed at their complete negligence and incompetence in
recognizing a pattern of symptoms that is seen over and over again,
hundreds, and thousands of times in this patient population. And yet,
they cling to their outdated, obviously inadequate standard answers
and bury their heads in the sand while our children suffer and sink
deeper and deeper into Autism. Every parent of an autistic child has
heard some ridiculous, condescending statement from a physician while
they ignored that same child�s obvious vaccine reaction, or explosive
diarrhea, abdominal pain, mysterious rash, poor weight gain, reflux,
relentless fever, immune dysfunction, and on, and on. And they ignore
us, because they can.
Pediatricians, vaccine manufacturers, the CDC, and our federal
government are all protected under laws that are unconstitutional.
That�s right. Your pediatrician doesn�t have to worry about being
sued for your child�s descent into Autism after their MMR, or Proquad
because the US Federal Government says so. Even though adequate
informed consent is never provided, and protocols for vaccinating are
rarely followed appropriately.
Children get vaccinated without being screened for immune dysfunction,
mitochondrial disorders, and even when they have a febrile illness,
all inappropriate according to the vaccine makers� own
recommendations. Yet, where are all the suits being filed for this
obvious malpractice? Because, as parents, we are spending every
waking moment and every dime we have trying to recover our children,
we have no resources to venture into this legal arena with special
masters and shorter statute of limitations. In a country where the
father of a child that resulted from a rape has a legal right to that
child, our children have no legal rights. By the time we navigate the
myriad of professionals that are deemed qualified to diagnose our
children as autistic, our statute of limitations has already expired.
It will take one individual with deep pockets and a fire burning in
their soul, to bring change. There is no exemption for gross
negligence by a physician even if it�s one of our kids. You are not
protected under the umbrella of indifference. It will only take one
case, one precedent. Change will happen.
The controversy about vaccines rages on, but only in the minds of
those officials who are themselves, responsible for the conspiracy to
conceal the truth about vaccines. All of the supposed nonexistent,
mainstream medical studies that apply to vaccines, and thimerosol,
mitochondrial disorder and dysfunction, seizure disorder, aluminum
etc. are all easily accessed by anyone with a computer and half a
brain. This may explain why the officials, that coincidentally have
some type of connection to vaccine manufacturers, cannot seem to find
them. All of the necessary medical documentation, studies,
information, case studies, etc. are there and readily available for
anyone who wasn�t deluding themselves that they can still go on
national television and tout that everything is okay. This political,
money driven quagmire will come to an end. Big tobacco took a fall
and so will vaccine pushers. And I�m thinking of one gentleman in
particular, I think we all know who that is, you will not make it off
this planet in an upward direction, sir.
I�ll leave you with the thought that for the same reasons that people
fought for civil rights, government officials are impeached, landmark
cases are won, people have overcome adversity throughout history to
affect change, we must do the same for our cause. I will pledge from
this day forward that the next time I get that look from a doctor, you
know, the placating one you get when you start to talk
gastrointestinal, I will put my foot down. I will say, �Why do you
look at me that way? Do you not believe what I am saying or are you
just not aware how negligent you have been in my child�s care? Why did
you not recommend a genetic work up for my child? Why have you not
tested his lead level before now? Why is it that while I sit here in
receipt of that condescending look, you don�t even realize that every
new piece of information I have found out about my child�s medical
condition is because I looked for it and not you? As we sit here
right now,
I know infinitely more about how to treat the medical condition of
autism than you, and quite frankly, you should be on the receiving end
of that very same look you are giving me. As we sit here and you
comment on how well my child is doing, and how far he has come, it is
only because of me, and not you, acting as his medical professional
and managing his care, and at the same time, being damn good at it.�
So pediatricians, and specialists be aware and beware. We will no
longer tolerate substandard, negligent care for our kids. And while
we might be the government�s scapegoat right now, that curtain will
come down, and they will sell you out just as fast. And then my
friends, you won�t be able to afford your malpractice insurance.
Jill Rubolino is the mother of two beautiful children, one who was
affected by vaccines and diagnosed with PDD-NOS. She, along with her
husband Richard, is currently working on her son�s recovery and
returning his body to a healthy state. Jill has been a nurse for
fifteen years and is appalled at the lack of appropriate medical care
for ASD kids. Along with friend Jeanna Reed (fellow nurse and mom to a
vaccine injured son) they plan to do something about it. Their
company, Autism Is Medical, Inc., focuses on educating doctors and
parents and bridging the gap between them. They can be found at
www.autismismedical.com.
Excellent. Thanks, Paul keep up the good work.
Jan
Mark Probert
Wrong, it is not green jello, but purple tapioca pudding.
Terry Jones
<BratSAmar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Besides...we all know green jello causes Autism..sheesh
Green jello may cause autism in sheesh, but it can't be the cause in
humans, since in Britain we don't have jello, but we do have
autistics.
(Unless of course green jello only causes American autism, and
British, etc., autism(s) have different causes? - That would be an
interesting thesis topic to replace all of those "suffering parent"
studies - Does autism differ between countries or linguistic groups?)
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=vitamin-d-and-autism&print=true
(caveat - not about the linguistic causes of autism :)
--
Terry
Muddle
Don't you have gelatin, a clear flavorless powder or sometimes it comes
in thin clear sheets that you dissolve in hot water, then chill to
solidify, as it's origin is french and it is used in a lot of french
cooking. It's the process of extracting gelatin, pure protein, from
animal bones by boiling.
Jello is made by adding sweet flavorings of one sort or another, food
coloring and during final preparation in the home nuts, fruit, crumbled
cookies and gummy bears etc. are often added. In your neck of the woods
it would be called a Trifle.
Then again rendering animal bones to feed to livestock has been outlawed
nearly everywhere, due to mad cow disease, but I guess it's still OK for
human consumption.
Linda
> rpautrey2 wrote:
> > April 20, 2009
>
> > Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
>
> It is however a mental disorder.
There's no such thing as a mental disorder.
>Which is what the DSM is for.
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
The US Military commissioned members of the mental health related
criminal cartels to publish the fabrication known as the DSM.
The US Military has illegally, unlawfully and unconstitutionally
insinuated itself into every aspect of the domestic affairs of
American citizenry by virtue of the US Military's army of corrupt
mental health workers engaging in political psychiatry wherein they
protect the criminal arses of the psychopaths amongst us from cradle
to the grave at the expense of everyone else.
Terry Jones
wrote:
>Don't you have gelatin
Yes, it's used in jelly (basically a sweetened and [usually fruit]
flavoured dessert - not the stuff you spread on bread or toast). Only
it's called jelly, not jello :)
[Which IIRC is one of those genericised brand names? and since we
don't have the brand, we don't use that name]
>Jello is made by adding sweet flavorings of one sort or another, food
>coloring and during final preparation in the home nuts, fruit, crumbled
>cookies and gummy bears etc. are often added. In your neck of the woods
>it would be called a Trifle.
Over here a trifle is desert, usually with a layer of alcohol soaked
cake at the bottom, layered with fruit, covered with jelly, and a
layer custard on top - sometimes topped with more fruit, whipped
cream, and decorative bits. E.g.;
http://thefoody.com/pudding/sherrytrifle.html
The equivalent of a gummy bear would be jelly babies;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jelly_baby
only we don't usually use them in trifle.
--
Terry
Gareeth
>
> There's no such thing as a mental disorder.
Maybe you should consult your dictionary.
>
>> Which is what the DSM is for.
>
> Liar, liar, pants on fire.
>
Ah yes that's a mature level of debate.
Gareeth
Arak
>
> Over here a trifle is desert, usually with a layer of alcohol soaked
> cake at the bottom, layered with fruit, covered with jelly, and a
> layer custard on top - sometimes topped with more fruit, whipped
> cream, and decorative bits. E.g.;
Mmmmmm...trifle! One of my faves!
My mum makes it the old fashioned way: sponge cake soaked in Harvey's
Bristol Cream at the bottom with fruit coctail jelly (she uses Jello
here) in between, followed by a thick layer of Bird's English custard
and topped off with whipped cream (mum whips heavy cream in the food
processor) and maraschino cherries. Oh my God...it's heaven in a cut
crystal bowl!!
The cummy thing is, Mum usually only makes it at Christmas. :^p
I've seen the trifles they make at restaurants here with chocolate
pudding and whipped cream from the can, but it's just not the same as
my mum's.
Arak /|\
Arak
>
> > > Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
>
> > It is however a mental disorder.
>
> There's no such thing as a mental disorder.
When I first read your post, I thought you were kidding. Now, I see
that you're serious. There is such a thing as mental illness, etc. It
affects many people every day.
>
> >Which is what the DSM is for.
>
> Liar, liar, pants on fire.
>
> The US Military commissioned members of the mental health related
> criminal cartels to publish the fabrication known as the DSM.
[ignoring immature method of dispute]
Where do you get your information from? The DSM is released by the
American Psychiatric Association, which is a collective of academics.
While it's true that clinical psychology really came to the forefront
with shell-shocked soldiers returning from the war, the DSM is not
commissioned by the military.
Psychiatry is a branch of medicine more than it is a military tool.
>
> The US Military has illegally, unlawfully and unconstitutionally
> insinuated itself into every aspect of the domestic affairs of
> American citizenry by virtue of the US Military's army of corrupt
> mental health workers engaging in political psychiatry wherein they
> protect the criminal arses of the psychopaths amongst us from cradle
> to the grave at the expense of everyone else.
I won't deny that psychaitry has its dark moments in history with
regards to military or government involvement. Dr. Ewen Cameron in
Canada is one example and Dr. Sargent in the UK is another example of
how psychiatric procedures were used in studying mind control, etc.
decades ago. I won't lie and say that there is not a psychiatrist on
this planet who is not involved with the military's agenda somehow.
That would be naive thinking.
Certain individual doctors may have some ethical and moral
deficiencies, but it's not a reason to paint the whole profession with
the same brush.
Have you had been hurt by this profession in the past?
Arak /|\
mindy
> On Apr 27, 9:43 am, rpautrey2 <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > April 20, 2009
>
> > Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
>
> > By Jill Rubolino
>
> > Autism as a diagnosis must be removed from the
> > DSM. Period. It is a medical disorder, with many causes, some of them
> > genetic and totally unrelated to a psychiatric diagnosis altogether.
> > Down’s syndrome is a medical diagnosis, has an identifiable genetic
> > abnormality, and a range of associated features also affecting that
> > person developmentally. It is not, however, diagnosed using the DSM.
>
> I agree with you... on this point *only*. I too would like to see
> people stop treating it like a behaviour problem and start looking at
> the whole picture. Putting it in the DSM only adds to the problem of
> it being treated like a behaviour problem.
I too agree with this point *only* If ASD's were a behavioral issue
then behavior modification would not cause long term side effects like
they do. Luckily for my son I did not learn of ABA or the like until
recently, so he has not been subjected to this form of abuse /
training.
Also, people need to stop looking at Autism as something that is
horrible. It only becomes horrible because people treat it like it
is. Autism is a difference not a malady. Now this is not to say that
the GI issues and stemming should be ignored. The root of what is
causing these should be investigated an treated. Now for stemming,
figuring out the stressors or stimuli that is causing the need for
stemming should be adressed and reduced.
Example: Prior to my son's diagnosis as ASD I learned to open the
curtains in the front room gradually throughout the day instead of all
at once in the morning. Thus minimizing my son's negative behavior
and constant rocking from being over stimulated by the bright light.
>
> For me, autism *is* a medical issue, which in turn aggravates me and
> causes coping behaviours to manifest. The hypersensitivity,
> hyperacidity, nausea, pain and such that I deal with every day is the
> major part of my discomfort. No one treated any of that when I was
> kid. They just thought it was a behaviour problem and trained those
> behaviours out.
I do not understand how any of these symptoms could be called
behavioral issues. discomfort is discomfort.
>
> > Autism is not currently recognized as a medical disorder because, if
> > not diagnosed as a known genetic cause, it is a disorder caused by
> > environmental insult, including vaccines.
If the world would come to accept that people are different, then
maybe they could get past ASD's as an ailment and only treat what
is... GI, too much stress etc. My son's 'strange' behaviors greatly
diminished once I stopped treating them as somthing that needed to go
away. Me focusing on his 'strange' behaviors made him behave more
'strange'.
>
> This is where I stop agreeing with you. I am not seeing any convincing
> empirical evidence of the vaccine/autism connection anywhere.
Me either.
>
> The only thing I see is the possible correlation because the symptoms
> seem to show up around the same time vaccines are given. No feasible
> proof has been provided *either way*.
>
> The ingredient that is supposed to cause autism was taken out of
> vaccines years ago. By that reason, we shouldn't be seeing a rise in
> new diagnoses in children, should we?
>
> Just because two things coincide, they are not always related. Even if
> the coincidence is strong.
I agree. And even if they could pin point a gentic / chromosomal,
universal 'cause' of ASD's -with the negative stigma that seems to be
the universal view point for most, would cause what? Abortions to
prevent one from having a child with ASD????? Ludicris!
>
> Have you heard of the Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy, AKA:
> Correlation Fallacy?
>
> This is when people assume that because two events coincide, that one
> must be the cause of another.
>
> A timely example: Is being on welfare the cause of child poverty, or
> is it the current economic decline that sees an increase in both
> people needing to go on welfare *and* the occurrence of child
> poverty?
>
> Let's look at this issue:
>
> Do vaccines cause autism or is it just the fact that autism symptoms
> and vaccines seem to occur at the same time?
>
> What would be interesting to see is if autism would still noticeably
> manifest itself at 18 - 24 months if all vaccines were given when a
> child is 5 or 6 years old instead of between the ages of 18 - 24
> months?
I agree that vaccines are not the safest, hence me not vaccinating my
children, but at least in my son's case, I know 100% for sure, that
vaccines did not cause his ASD.
>
> I was diagnosed autistic 12 years before I received the MMR vaccine.
> (diagnosed autistic at 2 years, given MMR vaccine at 14 years) How
> many others would be the same if they got that vaccine at a later
> date?
My son too, was diagnosed at 2 years, is 10 years now and has never
had any vaccines. To be in public school every year I am required to
sign a personal waver to exempt him from being vaccinated.
>
> Are the medical problems that certain autistic people deal with due to
> problems that may occur naturally with autism or because of some sort
> of damage done by vaccines?
Very good question. Maybe the vaccines are the cause of the GI
issues. My son has never had any GI issues and was never vaccinated.
So Maybe... the vaccines don't cause ASD's but do cause GI issues.?
>
> Is there empirical proof out there for Environmental damage vs.
> Physical issues being a natural part of autism?
>
> There's still a lot of research that needs to be done before
> assumptions can continue to be made.
>
> Tell you what. Prove to me empirically, with many studies, that
> vaccines cause autism and I'll consider the notion. Until then, I'm
> not buying it.
Me either.
>
> As far as I'm concerned, no one knows the true cause... or even the
> true treatment for that matter!
If comedy were not amusing to NT's would a comedian be seen as someone
with a disorer? Maybe ASD's are being viewed in the wrong light. Now
I know there are more severe cases than My son's, but I also know that
when I stopped thinking and behaving like he needed to be fixed, there
were fewer behaviors to 'fix'. I don't know. I just think societies
view point is all f-cked up when it comes to Autism.
>
> Arak /|\
Bob Badour
> On Apr 27, 9:38 am, Arak <Arak.Thayl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Apr 27, 9:43 am, rpautrey2 <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
> My son too, was diagnosed at 2 years, is 10 years now and has never
> had any vaccines. To be in public school every year I am required to
> sign a personal waver to exempt him from being vaccinated.
I have a friend with a 6 year old autistic daughter who had severe GI
issues until she went on a GFCF diet. She had the GI issues from birth,
which pretty much invalidates that hypothesis.
While there are risks from vaccinating, there are even bigger risks from
not vaccinating. Hope and pray that the vast majority of the parents of
the people your children will encounter in life do not make the same
decision as you did. Unfortunately, your children are in a cohort that
is undervaccinated, which does put them at much greater risk for serious
disease.
>>Are the medical problems that certain autistic people deal with due to
>>problems that may occur naturally with autism or because of some sort
>>of damage done by vaccines?
>
> Very good question. Maybe the vaccines are the cause of the GI
> issues. My son has never had any GI issues and was never vaccinated.
> So Maybe... the vaccines don't cause ASD's but do cause GI issues.?
Nope. The evidence does not support the hypothesis at all.
Gareeth
> >
> Also, people need to stop looking at Autism as something that is
> horrible. It only becomes horrible because people treat it like it
> is. Autism is a difference not a malady.
I don't know that I totally believe that. I don't think it is horrible but
my issues are much more serious than something I would describe as just
being a difference. I mainly don't encounter people much so there is no one
treating my autism as horrible and yet it's impact on my day to life in a
negative way is pretty substantial. I think some middle ground between
treating it like a terrible tragedy and dismissing it as simply differences
is best.
Gareeth
Buzzard
> On Apr 27, 11:27 am, "Gareeth" <Gareethn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>rpautrey2 wrote:
>>>April 20, 2009
>>>Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
>>
>>It is however a mental disorder.
>
> There's no such thing as a mental disorder.
I'm in only partial agreement here.
While most of what are usually seen as "mental"
disorders probably have physiological or
neurological causes,
I do believe that there are a lot of
/emotional/ problems out there
that are giving their host humans hell.
--
the Vulture of the Damned
Bob Badour
It's not so much that it's treated as horrible as it is treated as
repulsive.
When it comes to the biggest problems I have caused directly by my
autism, most folks just won't believe me. They prefer to see the results
of my executive dysfunction as the results of moral failing than the
results of disability.
Where I need support the most, I get criticism instead.
Linda
> On Apr 28, 9:37 am, Linda <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > > Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
>
> > > It is however a mental disorder.
>
> > There's no such thing as a mental disorder.
>
> When I first read your post, I thought you were kidding. Now, I see
> that you're serious. There is such a thing as mental illness, etc. It
> affects many people every day.
>
>
>
> > >Which is what the DSM is for.
>
> > Liar, liar, pants on fire.
>
> > The US Military commissioned members of the mental health related
> > criminal cartels to publish the fabrication known as the DSM.
>
> [ignoring immature method of dispute]
>
> Where do you get your information from?
Public documented records.
>The DSM is released by the
> American Psychiatric Association, which is a collective of academics.
So you say..
In fact, a US Brigadeer General is credited with concocting the
nosology and nomenclature of the DSM.
The members of America's mental health related criminal cartels were
ONLY tasked with publishing and distributing the US Military's
psychiatric propaganda.
Furthermore, the US Military stacks America's "professional lol"
organizations with members of the US Military, so much so, members
of the US Military even have VETO power over some initiatives of
America's...."professional lol" organizations.
> While it's true that clinical psychology really came to the forefront
> with shell-shocked soldiers returning from the war, the DSM is not
> commissioned by the military.
<Yawn>
The nosology and nomenclature of DSM I is that of US Brigadeer General
William Menninger's (the brother of Karl Menninger.
All the members of the mental health related criminal cartels are
tasked with is publishing and distributing the fabrication known as
the DSM.
>
> Psychiatry is a branch of medicine more than it is a military tool.
Psychiatry is NOT a branch of medicine.
Psychiatry is a field modeled after medicine.
The relationship between psychiatry and medicine is the relationship
between a balsam model airplane and a 747.
>
>
>
> > The US Military has illegally, unlawfully and unconstitutionally
> > insinuated itself into every aspect of the domestic affairs of
> > American citizenry by virtue of the US Military's army of corrupt
> > mental health workers engaging in political psychiatry wherein they
> > protect the criminal arses of the psychopaths amongst us from cradle
> > to the grave at the expense of everyone else.
>
> I won't deny that psychaitry has its dark moments in history with
> regards to military or government involvement. Dr. Ewen Cameron in
> Canada is one example and Dr. Sargent in the UK is another example of
> how psychiatric procedures were used in studying mind control, etc.
> decades ago. I won't lie and say that there is not a psychiatrist on
> this planet who is not involved with the military's agenda somehow.
Puh-lese!
The agenda of the United Pathocracy of America, including the US
Military, has been being subverted to satisfy a sexual deviant and
his friends insatiable lust for sodomizing little boys and little
girls the latter half of the 20th century.
All the crime victims of Pappy "B" and Friends need is some good ol
fashioned biblical JUSTICE, not psychosis inducing drugs nor
psychosis inducing BCT.
But the crime victims of Pappy B and friends can't obtain justice
because A) members of America's mental health related criminal cartels
have RAPED the American criminal justice system to protect the
criminal arses of Pappy B and friends, and, concocted "treatments"
intended to bring about the final solution of their crime victims
after incarcerating and/or debilitating them.
> Certain individual doctors may have some ethical and moral
> deficiencies, but it's not a reason to paint the whole profession with
> the same brush.
You are confused!
A "Professional" is an individual who places their own interest
secondary to the interests of the consumers of their professional
services.
One can't obtain a license to practice psychiatry or psychology unless
one demonstrates a willingless to subordinate the truth to membership
in the "Profession lol"
Mark Probert
> mindy wrote:
>
> > Also, people need to stop looking at Autism as something that is
> > horrible. It only becomes horrible because people treat it like it
> > is. Autism is a difference not a malady.
>
> I don't know that I totally believe that. I don't think it is horrible but
> my issues are much more serious than something I would describe as just
> being a difference. I mainly don't encounter people much so there is no one
> treating my autism as horrible
This totally disgusted me:
http://www.10news.com/news/19306624/detail.html
Those three shrews need something real bad. A spanking seems
inadequate.
Sarah V.
> April 20, 2009
>
> Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
>
> By Jill Rubolino
I don't have time to get into all the reasons why I don't agree with
the much-touted vaccines-autism link (you can read something about my
views at http://goodenoughmummy.typepad.com/good_enough_mum/2009/02/mmr.html,
though that's mainly aimed at discussing the MMR). However, just
wanted to respond quickly to a couple of points here:
>Every parent of an autistic child has
> heard some ridiculous, condescending statement from a physician while
> they ignored that same child’s obvious vaccine reaction, or explosive
> diarrhea, abdominal pain, mysterious rash, poor weight gain, reflux,
> relentless fever, immune dysfunction, and on, and on.
This is not true. I'm a parent of an autistic child, and I have never
heard any such statement. As for all those symptoms, the only time my
child showed poor weight gain was in the first couple of months of his
life when he had an unsnipped tongue tie (before he got any vaccines,
so that certainly wasn't the cause), and the only time he's had any of
the other symptoms was when he had a few days of explosive diarrhoea
with a tummy bug on a few occasions. He has, overall, been an
extremely healthy little boy. So please don't tell me what 'every'
parent of an autistic child has experienced, because I'm one of those
parents and have experienced nothing of the sort.
> All of the supposed nonexistent,
> mainstream medical studies that apply to vaccines, and thimerosol,
> mitochondrial disorder and dysfunction, seizure disorder, aluminum
> etc. are all easily accessed by anyone with a computer and half a
> brain.
The mainstream medical studies on the matter have consistently shown
no link. There have been various studies that have purported to show
a link but have been too deeply flawed to take seriously.
All the best,
rpautrey2
On Apr 27, 8:49 pm, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> "rpautrey2" <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a2bd0f1b-ab93-4df2...@d19g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> April 20, 2009
>
> Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
>
> By Jill Rubolino
>
> In this month of Autism Awareness, I am ever so aware of the great
> disparity for our children on the autism spectrum regarding their
> diagnosis and healthcare. It brings to light some major changes that
> need to take place in order to not only stop the perpetual,
> exponentially expanding numbers of children developing autism, but to
> provide the already affected children with proper medical care and
> treatment.
>
> In a health care community that listed homosexuality as a psychiatric
> disorder on the DSM until 1973, and recognizes alcoholism, addiction
> and obesity as diseases, our children are suffering and being denied
> proper medical attention. Not only are our doctors not acknowledging
> our children’s medical ailments, they are flat out denying to us that
> they are occurring or that somehow these conditions are some normal
> variation of childhood.
>
> This needs to stop immediately. It will only stop when parents demand
> competent and educated pediatricians for their children and settle for
> nothing less. We must no longer listen to the false and
> unsubstantiated litany of canned text responses we hear from
> uninformed, uneducated pediatricians and specialists. We must no
> longer accept the standard answers that all refer back to one, already
> discredited study, regarding vaccine safety. When pediatricians site
> their references, how many parents ask them to explain that
> information? How many doctors could? And yet, how many parents that we
> know can site study after study, and explain biochemical abnormalities
> ‘til the cows come home?Autism as a diagnosis must be removed from the
> DSM. Period. It is a medical disorder, with many causes, some of them
> genetic and totally unrelated to a psychiatric diagnosis altogether.
> Down’s syndrome is a medical diagnosis, has an identifiable genetic
> abnormality, and a range of associated features also affecting that
> person developmentally. It is not, however, diagnosed using the DSM.
> Autism is not currently recognized as a medical disorder because, if
> not diagnosed as a known genetic cause, it is a disorder caused by
> environmental insult, including vaccines.
>
> The resulting medical problems are symptoms of the underlying cause,
> not the disorder itself. But because this medical disorder is caused
> by vaccines given to our children by the very people who are supposed
> to care for them and keep them healthy, it will not be recognized as
> such. No other disorder, psychiatric or otherwise, is so blatantly
> denied its medical or biochemical component except autism.
>
> No amount of early detection or early intervention will reverse a
> disease process unless it is treated medically. It is a process, that
> left untreated, will perpetuate itself to variable degrees in each
> individual with sometimes irreversible and devastating effects. The
> medical community turning its back on basic medical principles in
> treating their autistic patients’ symptoms first can only be referred
> to as gross malpractice.
>
> The pediatricians that are treating our children should be ashamed and
> embarrassed at their complete negligence and incompetence in
> recognizing a pattern of symptoms that is seen over and over again,
> hundreds, and thousands of times in this patient population. And yet,
> they cling to their outdated, obviously inadequate standard answers
> and bury their heads in the sand while our children suffer and sink
> deeper and deeper into Autism. Every parent of an autistic child has
> heard some ridiculous, condescending statement from a physician while
> they ignored that same child’s obvious vaccine reaction, or explosive
> diarrhea, abdominal pain, mysterious rash, poor weight gain, reflux,
> relentless fever, immune dysfunction, and on, and on. And they ignore
> us, because they can.
>
> Pediatricians, vaccine manufacturers, the CDC, and our federal
> government are all protected under laws that are unconstitutional.
> That’s right. Your pediatrician doesn’t have to worry about being
> sued for your child’s descent into Autism after their MMR, or Proquad
> because the US Federal Government says so. Even though adequate
> informed consent is never provided, and protocols for vaccinating are
> rarely followed appropriately.
> Children get vaccinated without being screened for immune dysfunction,
> mitochondrial disorders, and even when they have a febrile illness,
> all inappropriate according to the vaccine makers’ own
> recommendations. Yet, where are all the suits being filed for this
> obvious malpractice? Because, as parents, we are spending every
> waking moment and every dime we have trying to recover our children,
> we have no resources to venture into this legal arena with special
> masters and shorter statute of limitations. In a country where the
> father of a child that resulted from a rape has a legal right to that
> child, our children have no legal rights. By the time we navigate the
> myriad of professionals that are deemed qualified to diagnose our
> children as autistic, our statute of limitations has already expired.
> It will take one individual with deep pockets and a fire burning in
> their soul, to bring change. There is no exemption for gross
> negligence by a physician even if it’s one of our kids. You are not
> protected under the umbrella of indifference. It will only take one
> case, one precedent. Change will happen.
>
> The controversy about vaccines rages on, but only in the minds of
> those officials who are themselves, responsible for the conspiracy to
> conceal the truth about vaccines. All of the supposed nonexistent,
> mainstream medical studies that apply to vaccines, and thimerosol,
> mitochondrial disorder and dysfunction, seizure disorder, aluminum
> etc. are all easily accessed by anyone with a computer and half a
> brain. This may explain why the officials, that coincidentally have
> some type of connection to vaccine manufacturers, cannot seem to find
> them. All of the necessary medical documentation, studies,
> information, case studies, etc. are there and readily available for
> anyone who wasn’t deluding themselves that they can still go on
> national television and tout that everything is okay. This political,
> money driven quagmire will come to an end. Big tobacco took a fall
> and so will vaccine pushers. And I’m thinking of one gentleman in
> particular, I think we all know who that is, you will not make it off
> this planet in an upward direction, sir.
>
> I’ll leave you with the thought that for the same reasons that people
> fought for civil rights, government officials are impeached, landmark
> cases are won, people have overcome adversity throughout history to
> affect change, we must do the same for our cause. I will pledge from
> this day forward that the next time I get that look from a doctor, you
> know, the placating one you get when you start to talk
> gastrointestinal, I will put my foot down. I will say, “Why do you
> look at me that way? Do you not believe what I am saying or are you
> just not aware how negligent you have been in my child’s care? Why did
> you not recommend a genetic work up for my child? Why have you not
> tested his lead level before now? Why is it that while I sit here in
> receipt of that condescending look, you don’t even realize that every
> new piece of information I have found out about my child’s medical
> condition is because I looked for it and not you? As we sit here
> right now,
> I know infinitely more about how to treat the medical condition of
> autism than you, and quite frankly, you should be on the receiving end
> of that very same look you are giving me. As we sit here and you
> comment on how well my child is doing, and how far he has come, it is
> only because of me, and not you, acting as his medical professional
> and managing his care, and at the same time, being damn good at it.”
>
> So pediatricians, and specialists be aware and beware. We will no
> longer tolerate substandard, negligent care for our kids. And while
> we might be the government’s scapegoat right now, that curtain will
> come down, and they will sell you out just as fast. And then my
> friends, you won’t be able to afford your malpractice insurance.
>
> Jill Rubolino is the mother of two beautiful children, one who was
> affected by vaccines and diagnosed with PDD-NOS. She, along with her
> husband Richard, is currently working on her son’s recovery and
> returning his body to a healthy state. Jill has been a nurse for
> fifteen years and is appalled at the lack of appropriate medical care
> for ASD kids. Along with friend Jeanna Reed (fellow nurse and mom to a
> vaccine injured son) they plan to do something about it. Their
> company, Autism Is Medical, Inc., focuses on educating doctors and
> parents and bridging the gap between them. They can be found atwww.autismismedical.com.
>
> http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/04/autism-is-not-mental-illness-get-i...
Linda
> I do believe that there are a lot of
> /emotional/ problems out there
> that are giving their host humans hell.
Criminalization of the emotions of the crime victims of the
psychopaths amongst us, makes one a sociopath, doesn't it?
Linda
>. I'm a parent of an autistic child,
So you say...
Linda
> Linda wrote:
>
> > There's no such thing as a mental disorder.
>
> Maybe you should consult your dictionary.
I've never authored a dictionary.
Gareeth
> On Apr 28, 9:55 am, "Gareeth" <Gareethn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Linda wrote:
>>
>>> There's no such thing as a mental disorder.
>>
>> Maybe you should consult your dictionary.
>
> I've never authored a dictionary.
>
Gareeth
Buzzard
Just because I say that some people suffer from
emotional problems, that doesn't mean I would want
to criminalize them. And i should know what kind
of hell such problems can be; i suffer from a few
of them myself.
--
GrrrraaAAAAaArrrrrrrGH!!!
Linda
> Linda wrote:
> > On Apr 28, 9:55 am, "Gareeth" <Gareethn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Linda wrote:
>
> >>> There's no such thing as a mental disorder.
>
> >> Maybe you should consult your dictionary.
>
> > I've never authored a dictionary.
>
> Yes. That's pretty clear.
Says you.
Gilles Deleuze and Felix Guattari say that the survival of all of
mankind depends upon the schizoanalysis of schizogenics like you by
people like me.
Linda
> Linda wrote:
> > On Apr 28, 3:43 pm, Buzzard <buzz...@domain.invalid.net> wrote:
>
> >>I do believe that there are a lot of
> >>/emotional/ problems out there
> >>that are giving their host humans hell.
>
> > Criminalization of the emotions of the crime victims of the
> > psychopaths amongst us, makes one a sociopath, doesn't it?
>
> I can't believe you're calling me a sociopath.
> Just because I say that some people suffer from
> emotional problems, that doesn't mean I would want
> to criminalize them.
If it's not your intention to criminalize emotions then why are you
asserting that emotions are problematic?
And i should know what kind
> of hell such problems can be; i suffer from a few
> of them myself.
The United Pathocracy of America has been coopted by the 4% of
Americans who are psychopaths and the 8% of Americans whose sociopathy
incites them to go along with the psychopaths.
Acknowledge the fact that every parasite sucking at the public tit is
either a psychopath or a sociopath and everything that's being /
been done and everything that's going/gone on will make complete
sense.
See Ponerology, nee, the Science of Evil For Political Purposes.
Linda
Terry Jones
Most of the regulars at alt.support.autism are indeed parents /
relatives of autistics, or themselves autistic - why else would they
be here?
The question is, what's *your* connection to autism (if any)?
--
Terry
rpautrey2
> Gilles Deleuze and Felix Guattari say that the survival of all of
> mankind depends upon the schizoanalysis of schizogenics like you by
> people like me.
Huh?
Linda
> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:25:09 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>
> >On Apr 28, 11:55 pm, "Sarah V." <nanny...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>. I'm a parent of an autistic child,
>
> >So you say...
>
> Most of the regulars at alt.support.autism are indeed parents /
> relatives of autistics
So they say
> - why else would they be here?
There are two kinds of knowledge.
A)The knowledge acquired about a subject as a result of life
experience
B)The knowledge acquired by studying about a subject.
The humongous gap in knowledge which exists between persons afflicted
with a condition and the parasites who study about conditions inspired
persons afflicted with conditions to establish support groups where
they could swap knowledge they acquired about their condition as a
result of living with it with others who have acquired knowledge about
a condition as a result of living with it.
Subverting the purpose of the support group to further their own
sinister agendas is what motivates persons other then the individuals
afflicted with a condition to infiltrate a support group for persons
afflicted with the condition.
rpautrey2
> Subverting the purpose of the support group to further their own
> sinister agendas is what motivates persons other then the individuals
> afflicted with a condition to infiltrate a support group for persons
> afflicted with the condition.
Paranoid Nut or Perpetrator?
Muddle
Well I thought she was a parent, but I'm beginning to think she's the
Troll Jan Drew in disguise. It's OK to have your own opinions, but it's
not OK to attempt to brow beat them into others. One would think that
with a subject as contentious as this one is here that one ought to let
it slide or quit cross posting it into alt.support.autism.
As for the original posting I whole wholeheartedly agree. I see autism
as a neurological difference not a psychological abnormality and it
doesn't belong in the DSM VI and I shouldn't have to take my son to a
damned Shrink to get a stamp of approval every year in order to recieve
the services he requires and deserves.
Muddle
To elaborate further what the hell do I need the Shrink for anyway.
Yup, he's still not cured, guess I'll rubber stamp this approval for
services n thanks for the $250.00 fee you provide each year for doing
absolutely nothing!
Morons, he was diagnosed 14 years ago at Baylor University Medical
Center's Children's Neuro Unit by Elaine Ellis and a slew of interns and
medical students with autism and guess what, ya pain in the ass Shrink,
fourteen years later he's still autistic. Duh!
Bob Badour
I can understand your frustration. Dealing with bureaucratic nonsense
drives me nuts.
Arak
>
> Very good question. Maybe the vaccines are the cause of the GI
> issues. My son has never had any GI issues and was never vaccinated.
> So Maybe... the vaccines don't cause ASD's but do cause GI issues.?
If that was the case, I shouldn't have GI issues either. I missed out
on all of the vaccines at school, etc. until my teen years. I had GI
problems from the time I was born. Long before I got any vaccines.
> If comedy were not amusing to NT's would a comedian be seen as someone
> with a disorer? Maybe ASD's are being viewed in the wrong light. Now
> I know there are more severe cases than My son's, but I also know that
> when I stopped thinking and behaving like he needed to be fixed, there
> were fewer behaviors to 'fix'. I don't know. I just think societies
> view point is all f-cked up when it comes to Autism.
I've read a lot of stories about people who have found their autistic
children much easier to deal with (and much happier!) since they
stopped trying to "fix behaviour" or "change" them and started
focusing on accepting and helping them work with their differences.
I do agree that society's viewpoint is very messed up when it comes to
autism. Even Down's Syndrome is to be celebrated while autism is to be
eradicated.
Why is that? What makes autism such a big darned problem compared to
other conditions?
I'm interested in getting more views on that.
Arak /|\
Bob Badour
It's just an opinion but I would put it down to the uncanny valley.
People with Downs Syndrome look sufficiently different from the norm
that others can see them as cute. Because autistics have no gross
physical differences, our subtle differences, when noticed, make us
repulsive to people.
Terry Jones
<Indomi...@netzero.com> wrote:
>On Apr 29, 11:14�pm, Terry Jones <terryjo...@beeb.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:25:09 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>>
>> <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
>> >On Apr 28, 11:55�pm, "Sarah V." <nanny...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>. �I'm a parent of an autistic child,
>>
>> >So you say...
>>
>> Most of the regulars at alt.support.autism are indeed parents /
>> relatives of autistics
>
>So they say
I've met some of them, and they are indeed what they say.
But *you* ducked the question about your own connection with autism.
>Subverting the purpose of the support group to further their own
>sinister agendas is what motivates persons other then the individuals
>afflicted with a condition to infiltrate a support group for persons
>afflicted with the condition.
>
So what is your agenda in subverting the purpose of
alt.support.autism? (As described in the charter).
--
Terry
Linda
> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 06:18:00 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>
> >On Apr 29, 11:14 pm, Terry Jones <terryjo...@beeb.net> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:25:09 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>
> >> <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
> >> >On Apr 28, 11:55 pm, "Sarah V." <nanny...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >>. I'm a parent of an autistic child,
>
> >> >So you say...
>
> >> Most of the regulars at alt.support.autism are indeed parents /
> >> relatives of autistics
>
> >So they say
>
> I've met some of them, and they are indeed what they say.
So you "say"
>
> But *you* ducked the question about your own connection with autism.
Err, an argument stands on it's merit, or, it doesn't stand.
You and your ilk are shoving your propaganda down other peoples
throats based upon your false appeal to authority of being a NAMI
Mommie, as if, the NAMI Mommies who serve up their babies on a
silver platter to the criminals who belong to America's mental health
related criminal cartels and/or their sexually perverted bosses in the
US Military / Intelligence Community have an ounce of credibility.
> >Subverting the purpose of the support group to further their own
> >sinister agendas is what motivates persons other then the individuals
> >afflicted with a condition to infiltrate a support group for persons
> >afflicted with the condition.
>
> So what is your agenda in subverting the purpose of
> alt.support.autism? (As described in the charter).
I suppose that would depend upon what sort of charter malevolent NAMI
Mommies/Daddies and the criminals who belong to America's mental
health related criminal cartels concocted to preclude individuals
afflicted with autism from utilizing ASA as a gathering place for
themselves to swap knowledge about autism which they alone possess as
of result of their being the only ones who actually live with autism.
Terry Jones
<Indomi...@netzero.com> wrote:
>On Apr 30, 9:05�am, Terry Jones <terryjo...@beeb.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 06:18:00 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>>
>> <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
>> >On Apr 29, 11:14�pm, Terry Jones <terryjo...@beeb.net> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:25:09 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>>
>> >> <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Apr 28, 11:55�pm, "Sarah V." <nanny...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> >>. �I'm a parent of an autistic child,
>>
>> >> >So you say...
>>
>> >> Most of the regulars at alt.support.autism are indeed parents /
>> >> relatives of autistics
>>
>> >So they say
>>
>> I've met some of them, and they are indeed what they say.
>
>So you "say"
Well I'm not posting my autism diagnosis on-line, and I doubt that
most other people would either.
But since you don't believe what people "say", then how can you expect
them to believe that what you "say" has any merit?
>> But *you* ducked the question about your own connection with autism.
>
>Err, an argument stands on it's merit, or, it doesn't stand.
Oh your "argument" fails on it's own merits - the question is what are
you doing here if you have no connection with autism?
>You and your ilk are shoving your propaganda down other peoples
>throats based upon your false appeal to authority of being a NAMI
>Mommie
Do you believe yourself to be clairvoyant or something? - You got the
gender wrong for a start, not am I a parent, I'm an adult autistic.
So what's *your* claim to authority about anything to do with autism?
>> So what is your agenda in subverting the purpose of
>> alt.support.autism? (As described in the charter).
>
>I suppose that would depend upon what sort of charter malevolent NAMI
>Mommies/Daddies
Well, if you'd *read* the charter, you'd see that a.s.a was set up by
autistics primarily for autistics - And we do indeed "utilize ASA as a
gathering place to swap knowledge about autism which [we] possess as
of result of being the ones who actually live with autism."
But what's your connection with autism?
--
Terry
Linda
> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:52:12 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>
>
>
>
>
> <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 30, 9:05 am, Terry Jones <terryjo...@beeb.net> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 06:18:00 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>
> >> <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
> >> >On Apr 29, 11:14 pm, Terry Jones <terryjo...@beeb.net> wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:25:09 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>
> >> >> <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
> >> >> >On Apr 28, 11:55 pm, "Sarah V." <nanny...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >> >>. I'm a parent of an autistic child,
>
> >> >> >So you say...
>
> >> >> Most of the regulars at alt.support.autism are indeed parents /
> >> >> relatives of autistics
>
> >> >So they say
>
> >> I've met some of them, and they are indeed what they say.
>
> >So you "say"
>
> Well I'm not posting my autism diagnosis on-line, and I doubt that
> most other people would either.
>
> But since you don't believe what people "say", then how can you expect
> them to believe that what you "say" has any merit?
Unlike you and your ilk my arguement is based upon historical fact.
US Brigadier General William Menninger developed the nosology and the
nomenclature of the DSM I, which the US Military and Intelligence
Community bribed the members of America's "Mental Health" related
criminal cartels to publish and distribute AS IF the fabrication known
as the DSM was their own.
Furthermore, the US Military and Intelligence Community has bribed
the members of the American Psychiatric Association and the American
Psychological Association to the tune of hundreds of billions of
dollars to ensure the members of the American Psychiatric Associaton
and American Psychological Association collaborate with the US
Military and Intelligance Communities domestic warfare on WE THE
PEOPLE for the 57 years since the US Military paid the APA's 30 pieces
of silver to publish the propaganda known as the DSM which the US
Military developed.
Although the American Psychiatric Association continues to maintain
the pretense of divided loyalties between the US Military who "owns"
it and the consumers of it's shoddy services, the American
Psychological Association ceased maintaining any pretense about US
Psychologists undivided loyalty to the US Military when the American
Psychological Association amended Section 1.02 of it's ethics code to
include the Nuremberg Defense.
Kindly defend your indefensible position of serving up babies
afflicted with autism to Whore's collaborating with the US Military
and Intelligence Community instead of consulting Neurologists wrt
their purely neurological condition.
Mark Probert
> On Apr 30, 8:18 am, Linda <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
> > Subverting the purpose of the support group to further their own
> > sinister agendas is what motivates persons other then the individuals
> > afflicted with a condition to infiltrate a support group for persons
> > afflicted with the condition.
>
> Paranoid Nut or Perpetrator?
Note that in Linda's case, they are NOT mutually exclusive.
>
> On Apr 30, 8:18 am, Linda <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 29, 11:14 pm, Terry Jones <terryjo...@beeb.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:25:09 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>
> > > <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
> > > >On Apr 28, 11:55 pm, "Sarah V." <nanny...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >>. I'm a parent of an autistic child,
>
> > > >So you say...
>
> > > Most of the regulars at alt.support.autism are indeed parents /
> > > relatives of autistics
>
> > So they say
>
> > > - why else would they be here?
>
> > There are two kinds of knowledge.
>
> > A)The knowledge acquired about a subject as a result of life
> > experience
> > B)The knowledge acquired by studying about a subject.
>
> > The humongous gap in knowledge which exists between persons afflicted
> > with a condition and the parasites who study about conditions inspired
> > persons afflicted with conditions to establish support groups where
> > they could swap knowledge they acquired about their condition as a
> > result of living with it with others who have acquired knowledge about
> > a condition as a result of living with it.
>
> > Subverting the purpose of the support group to further their own
> > sinister agendas is what motivates persons other then the individuals
> > afflicted with a condition to infiltrate a support group for persons
> > afflicted with the condition.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mark Probert
> Terry Jones wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:25:09 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>
> >> On Apr 28, 11:55 pm, "Sarah V."<nanny...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> . I'm a parent of an autistic child,
> >> So you say...
>
> > Most of the regulars at alt.support.autism are indeed parents /
> > relatives of autistics, or themselves autistic - why else would they
> > be here?
>
> > The question is, what's *your* connection to autism (if any)?
>
> Well I thought she was a parent, but I'm beginning to think she's the
> Troll Jan Drew in disguise.
That is something that only a Stephen King fan could come up with. A
scary thought.
They are different people, as I have dealt with both for years. Each
has their own list of problems.
It's OK to have your own opinions, but it's
> not OK to attempt to brow beat them into others. One would think that
> with a subject as contentious as this one is here that one ought to let
> it slide or quit cross posting it into alt.support.autism.
>
> As for the original posting I whole wholeheartedly agree. I see autism
> as a neurological difference not a psychological abnormality and it
> doesn't belong in the DSM VI and I shouldn't have to take my son to a
> damned Shrink to get a stamp of approval every year in order to recieve
> the services he requires and deserves.
Fully agree. Why should you have to do it more than once? I know a
family where the child could not be serv ed by any state approved
facility due to a complexity of multiple problems. Only one provided
could address all and their school district had no problem with that.
Except for the fact that they had to go through the entire process
year after year.
The Mom in that household was so thankful for a gift of an old
computer with WordPerfect and a printer. All she has had to do was
change the dates for the last ten years.
Mark Probert
> On Apr 28, 2:55 pm, mindy <UsRc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Very good question. Maybe the vaccines are the cause of the GI
> > issues. My son has never had any GI issues and was never vaccinated.
> > So Maybe... the vaccines don't cause ASD's but do cause GI issues.?
>
> If that was the case, I shouldn't have GI issues either. I missed out
> on all of the vaccines at school, etc. until my teen years. I had GI
> problems from the time I was born. Long before I got any vaccines.
>
> > If comedy were not amusing to NT's would a comedian be seen as someone
> > with a disorer? Maybe ASD's are being viewed in the wrong light. Now
> > I know there are more severe cases than My son's, but I also know that
> > when I stopped thinking and behaving like he needed to be fixed, there
> > were fewer behaviors to 'fix'. I don't know. I just think societies
> > view point is all f-cked up when it comes to Autism.
>
> I've read a lot of stories about people who have found their autistic
> children much easier to deal with (and much happier!) since they
> stopped trying to "fix behaviour" or "change" them and started
> focusing on accepting and helping them work with their differences.
Great point. It happened in my family. Once we accepted my AD/HD son,
we moved on, and he is now a college graduate with a BFA and MFA and
earning a hefty salary.
> I do agree that society's viewpoint is very messed up when it comes to
> autism. Even Down's Syndrome is to be celebrated while autism is to be
> eradicated.
>
> Why is that? What makes autism such a big darned problem compared to
> other conditions?
There is an interesting discussion of this issue right here:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/04/disgusting.php
What those three shrews have done is utterly despicable.
I'll have more comments later. My younger son wants to go out for some
food.
Terry Jones
<Indomi...@netzero.com> wrote:
>Unlike you and your ilk my arguement is based upon historical fact.
Based on my actual posts, rather than your imaginings, what argument
do you claim I'm making?
>US Brigadier General William Menninger developed the nosology and the
>nomenclature of the DSM I ...
Except that like half or more of a.s.a regulars I don't live in the US
and have had no contact with the system to which you refer.
>Kindly defend your indefensible position of serving up babies
>afflicted with autism to Whore's collaborating with the US Military
>and Intelligence Community instead of consulting Neurologists wrt
>their purely neurological condition.
You're imagining things again - I've never claimed that autism is
anything other than a neuro-developmental condition - You glibly talk
about "facts", so show me the posts where you believe I've expressed
such a belief.
--
Terry
Jan Drew
"Mark Probert" <mark.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0c7d0fa5-5e9e-47d6...@z16g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 30, 11:07 am, Arak <Arak.Thayl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 28, 2:55 pm, mindy <UsRc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Very good question. Maybe the vaccines are the cause of the GI
> > issues. My son has never had any GI issues and was never vaccinated.
> > So Maybe... the vaccines don't cause ASD's but do cause GI issues.?
>
> If that was the case, I shouldn't have GI issues either. I missed out
> on all of the vaccines at school, etc. until my teen years. I had GI
> problems from the time I was born. Long before I got any vaccines.
>
> > If comedy were not amusing to NT's would a comedian be seen as someone
> > with a disorer? Maybe ASD's are being viewed in the wrong light. Now
> > I know there are more severe cases than My son's, but I also know that
> > when I stopped thinking and behaving like he needed to be fixed, there
> > were fewer behaviors to 'fix'. I don't know. I just think societies
> > view point is all f-cked up when it comes to Autism.
>
> I've read a lot of stories about people who have found their autistic
> children much easier to deal with (and much happier!) since they
> stopped trying to "fix behaviour" or "change" them and started
> focusing on accepting and helping them work with their differences.
Great point. It happened in my family. Once we accepted my AD/HD son,
we moved on, and he is now a college graduate with a BFA and MFA and
earning a hefty salary.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/b47238df12888f43
Anecdotes are not facts. They are, at best interesting stories. At
worst, outright lies.
Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant
From: aloysio...@aol.com (AloysiousX)
Date: 07 Jan 2004 18:59:31 GMT
Local: Wed, Jan 7 2004 2:59 pm
Subject: Re: A New Year's Resolution
I have no children, Sistah Jan.
As Salaam Aleikum, my Sistah!
AloysiousX
Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant
From: aloysio...@aol.com (AloysiousX)
Date: 06 Jan 2004 22:31:39 GMT
Local: Tues, Jan 6 2004 6:31 pm
Subject: Re: A New Year's Resolution
You know something, Sistah Ilena, I'm not Mark Probert, but it's pretty
clear
who the coward is.
Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant
From: aloysio...@aol.com (AloysiousX)
Date: 07 Jan 2004 18:57:50 GMT
Local: Wed, Jan 7 2004 2:57 pm
Subject: Re: A New Year's Resolution
Sistah Jan, I'd never heard of you until you made your post in the breast
implant group, much in the same way I'd never heard of Mark Probert until
Sistah Ilena mentioned him.
path:
archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!newsfeed2.dallas1.level3.net!news.lev��el3.com!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!ngpeer.n�e�ws.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 107
X-Admin: n...@aol.com
From: aloysio...@aol.com (AloysiousX)
Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant
Date: 06 Jan 2004 17:54:38 GMT
References: <19faaec.0401060908.68a7...@posting.google.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: A New Year's Resolution
Message-ID: 20040106125438.01826.00002...@mb-m18.aol.com
> Subj: Is There Some Reason...> Date: 2/12/2004 2:18:07 PM Pacific Standard
> Time> From: AloysiousX> To: JDrew63929>>> Is there some reason why you
> won't let me ask you a few questions, Jan? > I'm> really curious about
> your involvement with Ilena Rosenthal.>>> But I guess my most basic
> question is whether or not you are in California> (like I am), or over in
> Indiana, like your profile says.>>> I had thought you were out west, but I
> guess not.>>> As Salaam Aleikum!>>> Aloysious>
> Mark Probert markprobert1...@hotmail.com AloysiousX
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.cerebral-palsy/msg/a150283b4507be81
Newsgroups: alt.support.cerebral-palsy
From: "Mark Probert" <mark_probertREMOVEGARB...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:21:41 -0400
Local: Mon, Aug 12 2002 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: Part Time Job, Long Island.........
*A*nswering the
*N*eeds of
*C*itizens with
*H*andicaps through
*O*ganized
*R*ecreation.
Their camp has a webiste: www.campanchor.org. My kids pic is there.
http://www.campanchor.org/images/jrcamp13.jpg
http://www.campanchor.org/images/jrcamp7.jpg
The camp is wonderful, and they have a year round program, too, for kids and
adults. WRT to the camp, there is a waiting list for volunteers and you must
have been a volunteer to get a counsellors job.
> I do agree that society's viewpoint is very messed up when it comes to
> autism. Even Down's Syndrome is to be celebrated while autism is to be
> eradicated.
>
> Why is that? What makes autism such a big darned problem compared to
> other conditions?
There is an interesting discussion of this issue right here:
Oracnosenuttin.
He also is a proven liar, like you.
Jan Drew
On Apr 30, 9:50 am, rpautrey2 <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 30, 8:18 am, Linda <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
> > Subverting the purpose of the support group to further their own
> > sinister agendas is what motivates persons other then the individuals
> > afflicted with a condition to infiltrate a support group for persons
> > afflicted with the condition.
>
> Paranoid Nut or Perpetrator?
Note that in Linda's case, they are NOT mutually exclusive.
Note that this thread is not about Linda.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/96f2269de...
Call me Mark "Diversion" Probert.
Jan Drew
"Muddle" <bernie...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:W5iKl.112$LO7...@newsfe23.iad...
> Terry Jones wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:25:09 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>> <Indomi...@netzero.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Apr 28, 11:55 pm, "Sarah V."<nanny...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> . I'm a parent of an autistic child,
>>> So you say...
>>
>> Most of the regulars at alt.support.autism are indeed parents /
>> relatives of autistics, or themselves autistic - why else would they
>> be here?
>>
>> The question is, what's *your* connection to autism (if any)?
>>
>
> Well I thought she was a parent, but I'm beginning to think she's the
> Troll Jan Drew in disguise.
Jan Drew (me) is not the subject. Neither am I a Troll.
Jan Drew
On Apr 30, 9:56 am, Muddle <berniesimm...@epix.net> wrote:
> Terry Jones wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:25:09 -0700 (PDT), Linda
> > <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Apr 28, 11:55 pm, "Sarah V."<nanny...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> . I'm a parent of an autistic child,
> >> So you say...
>
> > Most of the regulars at alt.support.autism are indeed parents /
> > relatives of autistics, or themselves autistic - why else would they
> > be here?
>
> > The question is, what's *your* connection to autism (if any)?
>
> Well I thought she was a parent, but I'm beginning to think she's the
> Troll Jan Drew in disguise.
That is something that only a Stephen King fan could come up with. A
scary thought.
They are different people, as I have dealt with both for years. Each
has their own list of problems.
Shall I list your a *some * of your problems, Mark S Probert?
From: msprob...@aol.com (MSProbert)
Subject: Re: NBC Nightly News Segment on overuse of Ritalin
Date: 1996/07/02
Message-ID: <4rbm3n$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 163353426
sender: n...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
references: <4qs44e$9...@news1.infinet.com>
organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
In article <4qs44e...@news1.infinet.com>, jpal...@infinet.com (John
Palmer) writes:
>Er, no. No one, to the extent of my knowledge, has ever been flamed for
saying that diagnoses should be made carefully and responsibly.USUALLY,
what happens is someone comes in and INSISTS there is widespread
overprescription of ritalin and INSISTS that Doctors are being lazy in
their diagnoses and INSISTS that there are schools with 75% of all
children on ritalin. <
I asked Josh's school nurse if she could tell me how many kids are on ADHD
medication (the district requires that all medications be known, as they
may need to provide medical care in an emergency). Seems that 3% of the
JHS are on meds.
Mark S. Probert
Merrick, New York
Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
From: msprob...@aol.com
Date: 1997/01/03
Subject: Re: ADD, Teens, Driving
In article <qsxq$LAiJuyyE...@helping-hands.demon.co.uk>, "Z.L"
<z...@helping-hands.demon.co.uk> writes:
>sounds just like my son. We had his field of vision tested, and it was
>very limited. No wonder he missed those cars. I refused to go in the car
>with him and he has had lots of crashes ( minor thank G-d ). We gave him
>a course of Auditory Integration Training combined with Light Therapy in
>a two week course of treatment. It is certainly worth considering. As
>far as I know either treatment is available in the USA but only in the
>UK is is available as a combined treatment.
Hi Z.L.:
Got any proof that this works, yet?. Can I infer that it does not work
because you did not mention that it does? Would you go driving with
someone who is relying on this?
Mark S. Probert
Long Island, New York
From: msprob...@aol.com
Subject: Re: Too Many Side Effects
Date: 1997/01/02
Message-ID: <19970102143...@ladder01.news.aol.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 207379985
references: <5afra0$k...@opengovt.open.org>
organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
x-admin: n...@aol.com
In article <5afra0$...@opengovt.open.org>, rex...@open.org writes:
>As my girlfriend's eight year old was diagnosed with ADHD at age five,
>I have been very interesten in learning as much as possible about the
>disease. I began following the discussions in this group since I
>learned of its existence just over a year over a year ago. When we
>first learned of the diagnosis, we, as have many others, became
>concerned about having him take a mood-altering drug with many side
>effects. While Ritalin and other amphetamines work well for many
>people diagnosed with ADHD, the side effects are very undesirable.
You have not read the group at all. Why do you feel it necessary to lie
like you do? Shame on you.
Any email only response to this message will be made public. This message
has been posted and mailed.
Mark S. Probert
Long Island, New York
Discussion subject changed to "Ranting and Raving" by msprob...@aol.com
Discussion subject changed to "RX-FART" by msprob...@aol.com
From: msprob...@aol.com (MSProbert)
Subject: Re: PUBLIC SCHOOL UNIFORMS?
Date: 1996/04/26
Message-ID: <4lqigq$4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 151559616
sender: r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
references: <4lntle$1...@news.xmission.com>
organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
newsgroups: k12.chat.teacher
In article <4lntle$...@news.xmission.com>, rgarr...@xmission.com writes:
>Just because I drive a Chevrolet doesn't mean I think like every other
>person who drives a Chevrolet.
>
>
True for us Chevy owners, but BMW owners all do think alike. All of
today's BMWs look alike, except for size.
Mark S. Probert
Merrick, New York
From: msprob...@aol.com (MSProbert)
Subject: Re: PUBLIC SCHOOL UNIFORMS?
Date: 1996/03/02
Message-ID: <4harau$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 141869140
sender: r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
references: <4h9vfn$9...@iac2.ltec.net>
organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
newsgroups: k12.chat.teacher
In article <4h9vfn$...@iac2.ltec.net>, Sharon O'Neil <so40...@ltec.net>
writes:
>I also wore one for 12 years and think they're a great idea. I
>currently teach in the public school system. I don't think that it
>is an issue of self-expression at all. When I was younger, my
>public school friends were not wearing shirts that exposed their
>navels or t-shirts with obscene messages on them. Kids need and
>want limits.
When I was in school, we were required to wear a shirt with collar, tie,
and slacks. The young ladies had to choose between dresses or a skirt and
blouse. I would think that this is enough of a "uniform".
My 12 year old is on a school team. For away games, they must wear a shirt
and tie and either a jacket or sweater. On these days, he seems to be a
more peaceful kid.
================
From: msprob...@aol.com (MSProbert)
Subject: Re: lying ADD stepson
Date: 1996/05/08
Message-ID: <4mr0jm$p...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 153807633
sender: r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
references: <3190C0...@emeraldis.com>
organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents
In article <3190C016....@emeraldis.com>, Timbo <ri...@emeraldis.com>
writes:
>I have a 12 year old stepson who has a problem with lying. He will lie
about
>anything. He constantly lies about not having homework, and has no
interest
>in school. Any time he does something wrong, he tells one lie after
another
>to keep himself out of trouble. We tell him that we all make mistakes and
>occasionlly lie, but to continually tell one lie after another is only
going
>to get in more trouble. Usually his punishment is being grounded are
having
>priveledges taken away
Sounds like my 12 year old. We had the same problems. We backed off on the
punishment about a year ago and instituted specific rewards for
truthfulness. We also lessened the amount of punishment and deprivation.
Instead of giving him a chance to say he has no homework, the school faxes
me a copy of his HW list daily. Things have gotten better.
Mark S. Probert
Merrick, New York
From: msprob...@aol.com (MSProbert)
Subject: Re: **Need fast CASH? Here it is!**
Date: 1996/09/28
Message-ID: <52j2ku$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 185820786
sender: r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
references: <324B1F...@netrover.com>
organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
newsgroups: alt.stupidity
In article <324B1FB9.1...@netrover.com>, Pringles <pring...@netrover.com>
writes:
>THAT WAS EXCITING!! So how much did I
>get in total return? $1000? $5000? Not even!!! I received a total of
>$23,343!!! I couldn't believe it!!
I sent a copy of your message to the IRS and asked them to collect back
taxes and send me the 10% bounty. They'll then send the message to the
USPS as yours is an illegal pyramid scheme and will get you 5 years and
$10,000 in fines. AND they take your internet access away!
Mark S. Probert
Merrick, New York
From: msprob...@aol.com (MSProbert)
Subject: Re: Beginning Babysitter
Date: 1996/04/22
Message-ID: <4lgasn$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 150814229
sender: r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
references: <1996Apr21....@news.iup.edu>
organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
newsgroups: alt.parenting.solutions
In article <1996Apr21.235647.6...@news.iup.edu>, b...@grove.iup.edu
(Matthew R. St. John) writes:
>I have a question for you. I am a college student Ealy Childhood
education
>major. I did not discover my love for children until right before I
entered
>collegeso I did not do a lot of babysitting in my teen years. But now I
am
>looking to do that to help with getting experience with young children.
But
>how do I get started being that I do not have a lot of refrences, one to
be
>precise. So what should I do to get the ball rolling. Any suggestions
would
>be welcome.
OT: For What it is Worth
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/d4233af27b0d7597
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:44:01 GMT
Local: Tues, Nov 28 2006 5:44 pm
Subject: Re: OT: For What it is Worth
pmoran wrote:
> Mark, what gives? These are awful accusations and it smells of fakery
> .
> It should have been possible to check some of the facts, such as that
> the child care centre was closed down. Why were criminal charges not
> laid if these accusations were true?
> I don't think this should have been posted, even as a joke or to make a
> point, however well-deserved. Bolen and Ilena have amply demonstrated
> how lies can acquire a life of their own on Usenet.
> Can you withdraw it?
Yes, but for a price. Nothing for free any more.
I want peace. I have asked for it, I have lived it. I want peace.
I will do whatever is necessary for peace, except give in to Ilena's and
Jan extortion.
[That was so filled with LIES that you made up, you had it removed from
Google]
If you really want to try something really hard, and really rewarding,
contact the local United Cerebral Palsy center and ask them for a list of
respite programs, and where you can get some training in working with
multiply handicapped children. Then become a respite worker (most areas
have a shortage). Pays better than babysitting in more ways than one.
Respite workers provide time off for parents of severely disabled
children.
Father of Josh-12-ADHD and Noah-7-CP.
Mark S. Probert
Merrick, New York
Mark Probert
Stalking and harASSment removed,.
Nothing left.
Linda
> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:22:38 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>
> >Unlike you and your ilk my arguement is based upon historical fact.
>
> Based on my actual posts, rather than your imaginings, what argument
> do you claim I'm making?
None!
That's my point.
You interjected yourself into a discussion where you have nothing of
value to contribute.
>
> >US Brigadier General William Menninger developed the nosology and the
> >nomenclature of the DSM I ...
>
> Except that like half or more of a.s.a regulars I don't live in the US
> and have had no contact with the system to which you refer.
That didn't stop you from interjecting yourself in a discussion whose
topic is
"Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM", did it?
> >Kindly defend your indefensible position of serving up babies
> >afflicted with autism to Whore's collaborating with the US Military
> >and Intelligence Community instead of consulting Neurologists wrt
> >their purely neurological condition.
>
> I've never claimed that autism is
> anything other than a neuro-developmental condition
Saying Autism is anything other then a neurological condition is
saying that Autism is something other than a neurological condition.
Buzzard
> (snip)
> If it's not your intention to criminalize emotions then why are you
> asserting that emotions are problematic?
Because some of mine are problematic for me.
Sometimes, in the same person, emotion and
rationality do not agree with one another.
(And no, I'm not calling that a CRIME)
And on those nights when I'm so bummed out about
various things that I feel like I could just die,
what are you saying, that I SHOULD just go ahead
and die?
Linda
> "Mark Probert" <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> They are different people, as I have dealt with both for years.
Jan, you're slipping.
Probert's assertion that he's dealt with me for years is a blatant
LIE.
It's been many years since I've had any dealings whatsoever with Mark
S. Probert or any of the other criminals who conspired with convicted
child molesters, authors of Pedarestic SMBD FAQ's, subscribers of
unlawful child porno forums like alt.binaries.pictures.asparagus,
phone sex proprietors and porno kings to blackmail, terrorize and
murder innocent american soccer moms, little league dads, and their
children.
Au contraire...
Mark S. Probert is amongst the longstanding named recipients of my
legally binding Public Notice to Cease and Desist misusing interactive
computer services to pursue unwanted and unwelcome communications with
yours truly, in violation of the laws of my state of residence,
which explicitly includes NEWSGROUPS amongst the venues where
malicious creeps like Mark S. Probert are prohibited from
cyberharassing me or conspiring with other malicious individuals to
blackmail, terrorize and murder me and mine.
Terry Jones
<Indomi...@netzero.com> wrote:
>> Based on my actual posts, rather than your imaginings, what argument
>> do you claim I'm making?
>
>None!
>
>That's my point.
>
>You interjected yourself into a discussion where you have nothing of
>value to contribute.
Just because *you* don't agree with something doesn't mean that it's
of no value. Questioning the claims of people who pontificate about
autism is one of the things we do.
>> Except that like half or more of a.s.a regulars I don't live in the US
>> and have had no contact with the system to which you refer.
>
>That didn't stop you from interjecting yourself in a discussion whose
>topic is "Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM", did it?
(1) I am autistic.
(2) The topic was posted to a.s.a where I am a regular participant.
(3) This is a multi-national group, so what's happening in other
countries is of relevance.
(4) I agree with the point that autism is not a mental illness.
I have a basis for joining in the discussion, but what's yours?
>> >Kindly defend your indefensible position of serving up babies
>> >afflicted with autism to Whore's collaborating with the US Military
>> >and Intelligence Community instead of consulting Neurologists wrt
>> >their purely neurological condition.
>>
>> I've never claimed that autism is
>> anything other than a neuro-developmental condition
>
>Saying Autism is anything other then a neurological condition is
>saying that Autism is something other than a neurological condition.
Are you claiming that autism is *not* a neuro-developmental condition?
If so, on what evidence do you base this belief?
--
Terry
Linda
> Linda wrote:
> > (snip)
> > If it's not your intention to criminalize emotions then why are you
> > asserting that emotions are problematic?
>
> Because some of mine are problematic for me.
> Sometimes, in the same person, emotion and
> rationality do not agree with one another.
Up until the US Military and Intelligence Community coopted the field
of psychiatry to further it's sinister agenda, the state of affairs
you describe was known as neurotic / neurosis.
It was also considered a "reactive" state of affairs....
In the 57 years since the US Military and Intelligence community
coopted the field of psychiatry to further it's sinister agendas, the
USG has gone to great lengths to obscure the fact that the state of
affairs you describe is a reactive state of affairs, because, US
pathocrats don't want americans to know that the psychopathology of US
pathocrats is making neurotics of the rest of us.
If the psychopathology of US pathocrats is reducing everyone to a
state of reactive neurosis, then your neurotic state of affairs is
completely normal, isn't it? :-)
> (And no, I'm not calling that a CRIME)
> And on those nights when I'm so bummed out about
> various things that I feel like I could just die,
> what are you saying, that I SHOULD just go ahead
> and die?
Absolutely not.
US Psychiatry has been dubbed the "Industry of Death" for good reason.
What I'm saying is LIFE, not psychiatry (death).
Linda
> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:58:23 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>
> >> Based on my actual posts, rather than your imaginings, what argument
> >> do you claim I'm making?
>
> >None!
>
> >That's my point.
>
> >You interjected yourself into a discussion where you have nothing of
> >value to contribute.
>
> Just because *you* don't agree with something doesn't mean that it's
> of no value.
You didn't interject yourself into this discussion to discuss
anything.
You interjected yourself into this discussion to encourage readers to
receive what another author asserted as if it were the gospel truth,
rather then receive it as something which may be true, or false.
Questioning the claims of people who pontificate about
> autism is one of the things we do.
We???
You are a member of a gang?
What sort of gangster are you?
>
> >> Except that like half or more of a.s.a regulars I don't live in the US
> >> and have had no contact with the system to which you refer.
>
> >That didn't stop you from interjecting yourself in a discussion whose
> >topic is "Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM", did it?
>
> (1) I am autistic.
>
> (2) The topic was posted to a.s.a where I am a regular participant.
>
> (3) This is a multi-national group, so what's happening in other
> countries is of relevance.
>
> (4) I agree with the point that autism is not a mental illness.
>
> I have a basis for joining in the discussion
Since what you "say" may be true, or false, how can your "saying"
something which may be true, or false, create a basis for your
joining a discussion in which you employ ABUSIVE interrogation tactics
against others who join the discussion because they joined the
discussion?
>
> >> >Kindly defend your indefensible position of serving up babies
> >> >afflicted with autism to Whore's collaborating with the US Military
> >> >and Intelligence Community instead of consulting Neurologists wrt
> >> >their purely neurological condition.
>
> >> I've never claimed that autism is
> >> anything other than a neuro-developmental condition
>
> >Saying Autism is anything other then a neurological condition is
> >saying that Autism is something other than a neurological condition.
>
> Are you claiming that autism is *not* a neuro-developmental condition?
I'm saying that saying autism is anything other then a neurological
condition is one and the same as saying that autism is something other
then a neurological condition.
Prometheusmk2
> As for the original posting I whole wholeheartedly agree. I see autism
> as a neurological difference not a psychological abnormality and it
> doesn't belong in the DSM VI and I shouldn't have to take my son to a
> damned Shrink to get a stamp of approval every year in order to recieve
> the services he requires and deserves.
I came into this thread a little late and can't see the original
posts.
From superficial studies about AS a while ago I found mention of
autism causing aberrant behaviour due to confusion, frustration and
not being able to fit in.
My understanding theses days is that autism is a result of a
neurological reconfiguration which has no intrinsic tendency towards
psychosis, sociopathy or psychopathy.
I don't understand why it is considered a mental illness.
How does the establishment justify treating it as such?
Muddle
Bob Badour
> Linda wrote:
>
>> On Apr 30, 10:41 pm, Terry Jones<terryjo...@beeb.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:58:23 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>>>
>>> <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Based on my actual posts, rather than your imaginings, what argument
>>>>> do you claim I'm making?
>>>>
>>>> None!
>>>> That's my point.
>>>> You interjected yourself into a discussion where you have nothing of
>>>> value to contribute.
>>>
>>> Just because *you* don't agree with something doesn't mean that it's
>>> of no value.
>>
>> You didn't interject yourself into this discussion to discuss
>> anything.
>>
>> You interjected yourself into this discussion to encourage readers to
>> receive what another author asserted as if it were the gospel truth,
>> rather then receive it as something which may be true, or false.
>>
>> Questioning the claims of people who pontificate about
>>
>>> autism is one of the things we do.
>>
>> We???
>>
>> You are a member of a gang?
>>
>> What sort of gangster are you?
Not a gang -- a herd. A herd of cats specifically.
>>>>> Except that like half or more of a.s.a regulars I don't live in the US
>>>>> and have had no contact with the system to which you refer.
>>>>
>>>> That didn't stop you from interjecting yourself in a discussion whose
>>>> topic is "Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM", did
>>>> it?
>>>
>>> (1) I am autistic.
>>>
>>> (2) The topic was posted to a.s.a where I am a regular participant.
>>>
>>> (3) This is a multi-national group, so what's happening in other
>>> countries is of relevance.
>>>
>>> (4) I agree with the point that autism is not a mental illness.
>>>
>>> I have a basis for joining in the discussion
>>
>> Since what you "say" may be true, or false, how can your "saying"
>> something which may be true, or false, create a basis for your
>> joining a discussion in which you employ ABUSIVE interrogation tactics
>> against others who join the discussion because they joined the
>> discussion?
If Terry really did manage to do it, I have to say waterboarding someone
via usenet is a truly impressive accomplishment. Bravo!
>>>>>> Kindly defend your indefensible position of serving up babies
>>>>>> afflicted with autism to Whore's collaborating with the US Military
>>>>>> and Intelligence Community instead of consulting Neurologists wrt
>>>>>> their purely neurological condition.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never claimed that autism is
>>>>> anything other than a neuro-developmental condition
>>>>
>>>> Saying Autism is anything other then a neurological condition is
>>>> saying that Autism is something other than a neurological condition.
>>>
>>> Are you claiming that autism is *not* a neuro-developmental condition?
>>
>> I'm saying that saying autism is anything other then a neurological
>> condition is one and the same as saying that autism is something other
>> then a neurological condition.
>>
> It's plonking time.
It was plonking time long before she joined this latest discussion. She
bounced off the bottom of my killfile after her first post ever.
Snoid
"rpautrey2" <rpau...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:25f7bfd9-2302-4b3b-b761-
>Huh?
Autism is perfect proof that DSM papers are utter non-sense. And i dont
mean bcoz of the thing it
is mentioned there. And so called NT / non-NT division sounds like it was
made by not-so-bright 5 year ol' kid.
But - therapy culture - is making enormous profit to ones who are preaching
it / making medicines. Also, it is protecting criminals all over the world.
The system is corrupted
from the top to the bottom.
Group courses, individual courses, therapy, group therapy , books, self-help
books , "name your disorder" quizes + trivias, even the f*king yoga. And,
offcourse the f*king church.
Well, shit , i shall "manage my anger " lol
Mark Probert
Read the CDA and note that state laws are trumped by Federal Law.
As for my dealings with you, they are rare, usually to respond to your
utterly gratuitous nasty comments coming from your sick, paranoid
little mind.
Raving
> Autism is perfect proof that DSM papers are utter non-sense. And i dont
> mean bcoz of the thing it
> is mentioned there. And so called NT / non-NT division sounds like it was
> made by not-so-bright 5 year ol' kid.
Shrug. Call it a phase/state space transition. Is that fancy enough
for you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_space
I am done with this topic. Goodbye.
Terry Jones
<Indomi...@netzero.com> wrote:
>> >You interjected yourself into a discussion where you have nothing of
>> >value to contribute.
>>
>> Just because *you* don't agree with something doesn't mean that it's
>> of no value.
>
>You didn't interject yourself into this discussion to discuss
>anything.
>
What *exactly* do you find wrong in an autistic joining an autism
related thread which is posted to (amongst others) an autism
newsgroup?
>You interjected yourself into this discussion to encourage readers to
>receive what another author asserted as if it were the gospel truth,
>rather then receive it as something which may be true, or false.
I joined the thread when you (on no apparent basis whatever)
questioned the authenticity of one of the regular posters on
alt.support.autism
I did not in fact assert that anything was "gospel truth", but pointed
out the probabilities and asked you to justify your doubts. (Which you
singularly failed to do, with some spiel about "infiltrate" and
"sinister agendas" for which you provided no supporting evidence
whatever).
>> Questioning the claims of people who pontificate about
>> autism is one of the things we do.
>
>We???
>
>You are a member of a gang?
I'm a regular reader and poster of an autism newsgroup. And that is
one of the things "we" (a number of the posters there, including
myself) do.
>Since what you "say" may be true, or false, how can your "saying"
>something which may be true, or false, create a basis for your
>joining a discussion in which you employ ABUSIVE interrogation tactics
So to your mind it's "ABUSIVE interrogation" to question the basis for
your assertions, or your association with autism - but not for you to
do the same with others?
>against others who join the discussion because they joined the
>discussion?
In fact you had made several posts in this thread before the one to
which I responded, so asserting that I did so for this reason has no
basis in fact - or are you claiming that I did this to some *other*
person in the thread? If so whom and in which post(s)?
>> Are you claiming that autism is *not* a neuro-developmental condition?
>
>I'm saying that saying autism is anything other then a neurological
>condition is one and the same as saying that autism is something other
>then a neurological condition.
Which is both a tautology and an evasion.
Newsgroups are a public forum, not a pulpit where you preach and
everybody else says "Amen" - If you say something questionable, it's
likely to be questioned.
A point you need to understand if you intended to participate
productively in newsgroups.
Likewise if you believe that you have something worth saying, then you
need to be able to substantiate it, and respond properly to questions
raised about your arguments - Not evasion, spin, and ad hominem.
Bye to you, Linda Pyrobraccae
Buzzard
> On Apr 30, 9:18 pm, Buzzard <buzz...@domain.invalid.net> wrote:
>
>>Linda wrote:
>>
>>>(snip)
>>>If it's not your intention to criminalize emotions then why are you
>>>asserting that emotions are problematic?
>>
>>Because some of mine are problematic for me.
>>Sometimes, in the same person, emotion and
>>rationality do not agree with one another.
> If the psychopathology of US pathocrats is reducing everyone to a
> state of reactive neurosis, then your neurotic state of affairs is
> completely normal, isn't it? :-)
It might be, but I'd still like to find my
way to a better "normal".
And reading this thread, I think I must have been a
bit unclear answering your original comment.
I'll try to answer that more clearly:
It is possible to heap psychological abuse upon a
person such that that person experiences lingering
emotional pain that lasts long, long after the
actual abuse has ended.
That emotional pain is what I'm calling a problem,
but I never claimed it was the victim's fault.
Its the perps' fault, and if I'm going to
criminalize anyone, its the jerks who who have their
fun inflicting social, verbal, psychological, and
other forms of abuse upon people, just to see
them suffer lingering emotinal pain.
Maybe this is a bit more clear... and the point
being, is that such pain does not necessarily
have a physical cause.
--
Suffering Succotash
Raving
For something like 2 years now, I have been struggling to point out
that ADD, PDD, OCD, BPD and schizophrenia ... as such are currently
described in the context of 'medical pathology' are ...
... the downside, liabilities, limitations, weaknesses of what is
predominantly ...
... a mutually excluding set of individual functional adaptive
strategies, each of which solve the same jointly held task/challenge/
problem.
In making my claim, I have mostly been met with with silence.
Perhaps I am unfair but I feel wholly without credibility,
marginalized, ineffectual, and incapable.
Stuff it all.
Goodbye. Take care.
Bob Badour
"Marginalized" implies someone is doing the marginalizing. Those of us
on the spectrum exist on the margins just by our very nature. We make up
only just over half a percent of the population, which means we will
never really be mainstream.
None of us is particularly effective, and we all have limits to our
capabilities.
I haven't seen you post much recently to be silent about. I am often
silent about your posts, though, because I am unable to make sense of
them. Your communication style and mine are simply very much at odds.
I don't know about "all" so much, but certainly turkeys, olives,
pillows, chicken breasts, jalapenos and bell peppers are on my list of
things to stuff.
You take care too!
Gareeth
> I don't understand why it is considered a mental illness.
> How does the establishment justify treating it as such?
Being in the DSM makes it a mental disorder not a mental illness. The two
are not the same thing at all. Other neurologically based disorders are also
in the DSM including dyslexia. This whole thread is based on a
misunderstanding of what the DSM stands for. How I don't know as it is right
in the title.
Gareeth
Bob Badour
> Prometheusmk2 wrote:
>
>>I don't understand why it is considered a mental illness.
>>How does the establishment justify treating it as such?
>
> Being in the DSM makes it a mental disorder not a mental illness. The two
> are not the same thing at all.
With all due respect, "mental disorder" is neither more nor less than a
euphism for "mental illness". It was basically a way of re-branding the
profession after Szasz cut the whole idea to shreds.
> Other neurologically based disorders are also
> in the DSM including dyslexia. This whole thread is based on a
> misunderstanding of what the DSM stands for. How I don't know as it is right
> in the title.
>
> Gareeth
It's in the title, but it's also quite Orwellian.
Raving
> You take care too!
Here I shall take it from the top and bluntly hack my way through
it ...
* Of late there has been considerable discussion in the press about a
*new* and radically different theory-of-autism. "Autism is not a
disease. It is a manner of thought which is normal and successful."
I don't know if this viewpoint is novel, remarkable, without
precedent, or even that it is significant. The possibility has been
discussed in ASA at length, in the years that I have been
participating here.
* Without doubt, life with autism can be hell, and hell and hell and
dysfunctional and dysfunctional and dysfunctional and ineffective and
ineffective and ineffective ... and then the autistic dies.
Nevertheless and over the course of that agonizing, hellish existence,
a considerable number of autistics have made a huge number of
important contributions to humanity which have proven to be profound
and enduring.
* Despite having autism, many autistic individuals achieve very
successful careers, lives and accomplishments. Despite the liabilities
and limitations that autism risks, having autism also strongly
demonstrates a strong likelihood for reward and success. Life isn't
fair. Life isn't easy for many people, autistic and nonautistic
combined.
* Whereas the concept that "autism is normal and appropriate" might be
*new* for the lifelong suffering autistic, for those with ADHD, it is
an old story. One thing which seems to set ADHD apart from the other
thought disorders is a deep, confident, resolute conviction that the
characteristics typified by "ADHD" are the ADHD sufferer's strength
and ability. ADHD might make my life insufferable, unbearable and a
never ending cycle of screw ups. Nevertheless those ADHD qualities are
everything to me. Those ADHD qualities are *best* that I have to offer
life. ADHD is my strength, notwithstanding the hell, anguish, and
endless failure which accompanies it.
Unlike autism, there seem to be few if any ADHD success stories. I am
very hard pressed to discover any successful ADHD life stories.
DaVinci had ADHD? .. Maybe. Probably autistic too.
What makes me exceedingly depressed and apathetic is that I have no
ADHD heroes .. no ADHD role models. No reason to feel that I can be
an exception to a lifetime of failure. I wish to God that I was wrong.
* It doesn't take much to extend the analogy and propose that most
( if not all ) thought disorders are functional and appropriate.
The reason that I blow my horn is that I have a description for which
each of the 5 thought disorders provides an independent, self-
contained, method of solution for a single common task.
Maybe I am stupid, ignorant, deluded, narcissistic, incompetent,
uneducated, subjective, desperate, crazy, pathetic ...
.. but as far as I am aware, there doesn't seem to be much
competition.
Enough. Take care. I hate myself. I hate life. I feel stupid,
embarrassed, useless, incapable, senile, incompetent ...
... raving, incoherent shit.
Take care. I shall drop by another time.
I lack the confidence necessary to develop, continue, build and polish
my assertion. My former ADHD psychiatrist and specialist dumped me. My
former PhD supervisor dumped me.
I am nothing. I am pure shit.
Raving
I am too useless, incompetent, stupid and incapable.
I speak drivel and nonsense. I don't know anything.
Raving
Raving
> On May 1, 11:41 am, Bob Badour <bbad...@pei.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > You take care too!
>
> Here I shall take it from the top and bluntly hack my way through
> it ...
Continuing ...
I am too pathetic and stupid to continue. My message is worthless.
Fail.
Raving
I am ignorant and deluded.
I am a mindless, bitter, impulsive, incapable idiot.
Raving
I know nothing about autism
I know nothing about ADHD
I know nothing about sports.
I know nothing.
I am wholly incapable.
My judgment is pure crap.
This is my final Usenet post.
Raving
> I know nothing. Disregard everything.
Some advice from an idiot:
I can lose my bitterness, more or less ..
I can swallow my own pride , more or less ...
... These a both probably bad ideas as: ...
... failure to remain bitter (and resolved) implies the loss of
sustained motivation.
.. failure to keep pride implies abandoning confidence in myself,
my knowledge and my ability.
The one thing that is most difficult for me is to maintain and build
confidence in my own ability and my own skill. Being dumped by my
psychiatrist, being dumped by my PhD supervisor, lacking resources,
lacking credit and credibility, being dismissed and discounted ...
... Moving through an extensive, repeated exercise of seizing an
initiative and failing to accomplish by it ...
.. Succeeding and accomplishing, but having such gain, belittled,
dismissed and diminished for the sake of other people's need to
maintain their own pride ...
... Lacking any person who has regard for my skill and who feels that
it is appropriate to lend credence to my efforts.
Having no colleagues, having no professions, having to work in
isolation and force myself onto others, only so as to deliver
incomplete, incomprehensible messages ...
... erodes what little confidence that remains for me regarding my
own ability.
I can swallow my pride. I can lose my bitterness. I can wake up in the
morning feeling happy and optimistic. I CANNOT feel very confident any
more. Age and experience compels me to de-rate my prospects.
I know that I give up far too easily. Mostly, as per day's example, I
give up even while half trying.
Obviously, confidence is something which is quite real. Even in the
medium run, it is something which must be genuine, self evident and
worth trusting.
I don't see much use in blaming others. Belaboring as to how I lost my
confidence in my own abilities doesn't help to restore it.
Mostly, I care about regaining my own confidence 'in house'. At this
moment, it feels disheartening.
Easy for me to fall in the habit of accepting that my confidence in
myself is groundless.
Muddle
Sometime you've just got to say "Fuck em" instead of "Fuck me".
Jan Drew
"Mark Probert" <mark.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:59834e9c-4771-4de2...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Stalking and harASSment removed,.
>
> Nothing left.
Poor Mark S Probert cannot stand the *truth*
"Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jLrKl.17180$8_3....@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> "Mark Probert" <mark.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a0074e59-6939-4b5f...@d25g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 30, 9:56 am, Muddle <berniesimm...@epix.net> wrote:
>> Terry Jones wrote:
>> > On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:25:09 -0700 (PDT), Linda
>> > <Indomitab...@netzero.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> On Apr 28, 11:55 pm, "Sarah V."<nanny...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>> . I'm a parent of an autistic child,
>> >> So you say...
>>
>> > Most of the regulars at alt.support.autism are indeed parents /
>> > relatives of autistics, or themselves autistic - why else would they
>> > be here?
>>
>> > The question is, what's *your* connection to autism (if any)?
>>
>> Well I thought she was a parent, but I'm beginning to think she's the
>> Troll Jan Drew in disguise.
>
> That is something that only a Stephen King fan could come up with. A
> scary thought.
>
> They are different people, as I have dealt with both for years. Each
> has their own list of problems.
>
> Shall I list your a *some * of your problems, Mark S Probert?
>
> From: msprob...@aol.com (MSProbert)
> Subject: Re: NBC Nightly News Segment on overuse of Ritalin
> Date: 1996/07/02
> Message-ID: <4rbm3n$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>#1/1
> X-Deja-AN: 163353426
> sender: n...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
> references: <4qs44e$9...@news1.infinet.com>
> organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
> newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
>
>
> In article <4qs44e...@news1.infinet.com>, jpal...@infinet.com (John
> Palmer) writes:
>
>>Er, no. No one, to the extent of my knowledge, has ever been flamed for
> saying that diagnoses should be made carefully and responsibly.USUALLY,
> what happens is someone comes in and INSISTS there is widespread
> overprescription of ritalin and INSISTS that Doctors are being lazy in
> their diagnoses and INSISTS that there are schools with 75% of all
> children on ritalin. <
>
> I asked Josh's school nurse if she could tell me how many kids are on ADHD
> medication (the district requires that all medications be known, as they
> may need to provide medical care in an emergency). Seems that 3% of the
> JHS are on meds.
>
>
>
> Mark S. Probert
> Merrick, New York
>
>
> Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
> From: msprob...@aol.com
> Date: 1997/01/03
> Subject: Re: ADD, Teens, Driving
>
> In article <qsxq$LAiJuyyE...@helping-hands.demon.co.uk>, "Z.L"
>
> <z...@helping-hands.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>sounds just like my son. We had his field of vision tested, and it was
>>very limited. No wonder he missed those cars. I refused to go in the car
>>with him and he has had lots of crashes ( minor thank G-d ). We gave him
>>a course of Auditory Integration Training combined with Light Therapy in
>>a two week course of treatment. It is certainly worth considering. As
>>far as I know either treatment is available in the USA but only in the
>>UK is is available as a combined treatment.
>
>
> Hi Z.L.:
> Got any proof that this works, yet?. Can I infer that it does not work
> because you did not mention that it does? Would you go driving with
> someone who is relying on this?
>
> Mark S. Probert
> Long Island, New York
>
> From: msprob...@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Too Many Side Effects
> Date: 1997/01/02
> Message-ID: <19970102143...@ladder01.news.aol.com>#1/1
> X-Deja-AN: 207379985
> references: <5afra0$k...@opengovt.open.org>
> organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
> x-admin: n...@aol.com
>
>
> In article <5afra0$...@opengovt.open.org>, rex...@open.org writes:
>
>>As my girlfriend's eight year old was diagnosed with ADHD at age five,
>>I have been very interesten in learning as much as possible about the
>>disease. I began following the discussions in this group since I
>>learned of its existence just over a year over a year ago. When we
>>first learned of the diagnosis, we, as have many others, became
>>concerned about having him take a mood-altering drug with many side
>>effects. While Ritalin and other amphetamines work well for many
>>people diagnosed with ADHD, the side effects are very undesirable.
>
> You have not read the group at all. Why do you feel it necessary to lie
> like you do? Shame on you.
>
> Any email only response to this message will be made public. This message
> has been posted and mailed.
>
> Mark S. Probert
> Long Island, New York
>
>
>
> Discussion subject changed to "Ranting and Raving" by msprob...@aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Discussion subject changed to "RX-FART" by msprob...@aol.com
>
>
> From: msprob...@aol.com (MSProbert)
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: PUBLIC SCHOOL UNIFORMS?
> Date: 1996/04/26
> Message-ID: <4lqigq$4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>#1/1
> X-Deja-AN: 151559616
> sender: r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
> references: <4lntle$1...@news.xmission.com>
> organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
> newsgroups: k12.chat.teacher
>
>
> In article <4lntle$...@news.xmission.com>, rgarr...@xmission.com writes:
>
>>Just because I drive a Chevrolet doesn't mean I think like every other
>>person who drives a Chevrolet.
>>
>>
> True for us Chevy owners, but BMW owners all do think alike. All of
> today's BMWs look alike, except for size.
>
> Mark S. Probert
> Merrick, New York
>
>
>
> From: msprob...@aol.com (MSProbert)
> Subject: Re: PUBLIC SCHOOL UNIFORMS?
> Date: 1996/03/02
> Message-ID: <4harau$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>#1/1
> X-Deja-AN: 141869140
> sender: r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
> references: <4h9vfn$9...@iac2.ltec.net>
> organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
> newsgroups: k12.chat.teacher
>
> In article <4h9vfn$...@iac2.ltec.net>, Sharon O'Neil <so40...@ltec.net>
> writes:
>
>>I also wore one for 12 years and think they're a great idea. I
>>currently teach in the public school system. I don't think that it
>>is an issue of self-expression at all. When I was younger, my
>>public school friends were not wearing shirts that exposed their
>>navels or t-shirts with obscene messages on them. Kids need and
>>want limits.
>
> When I was in school, we were required to wear a shirt with collar, tie,
> and slacks. The young ladies had to choose between dresses or a skirt and
> blouse. I would think that this is enough of a "uniform".
>
> My 12 year old is on a school team. For away games, they must wear a shirt
> and tie and either a jacket or sweater. On these days, he seems to be a
> more peaceful kid.
> ================
>
> Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant
> From: aloysio...@aol.com (AloysiousX)
> Date: 07 Jan 2004 18:59:31 GMT
> Local: Wed, Jan 7 2004 2:59 pm
> Subject: Re: A New Year's Resolution
>
> I have no children, Sistah Jan.
>
> As Salaam Aleikum, my Sistah!
>
> AloysiousX
> Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant
> From: aloysio...@aol.com (AloysiousX)
> Date: 06 Jan 2004 22:31:39 GMT
> Local: Tues, Jan 6 2004 6:31 pm
> Subject: Re: A New Year's Resolution
>
> You know something, Sistah Ilena, I'm not Mark Probert, but it's pretty
> clear
> who the coward is.
>
> Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant
> From: aloysio...@aol.com (AloysiousX)
> Date: 07 Jan 2004 18:57:50 GMT
> Local: Wed, Jan 7 2004 2:57 pm
> Subject: Re: A New Year's Resolution
>
> Sistah Jan, I'd never heard of you until you made your post in the breast
> implant group, much in the same way I'd never heard of Mark Probert until
> Sistah Ilena mentioned him.
>
> path:
> archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!newsfeed2.dallas1.level3.net!news.lev��el3.com!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!ngpeer.n�e�ws.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
> Lines: 107
> X-Admin: n...@aol.com
> From: aloysio...@aol.com (AloysiousX)
> Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant
> Date: 06 Jan 2004 17:54:38 GMT
> References: <19faaec.0401060908.68a7...@posting.google.com>
> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> Subject: Re: A New Year's Resolution
> Message-ID: 20040106125438.01826.00002...@mb-m18.aol.com
>
>> Subj: Is There Some Reason...> Date: 2/12/2004 2:18:07 PM Pacific
>> Standard
>> Time> From: AloysiousX> To: JDrew63929>>> Is there some reason why you
>> won't let me ask you a few questions, Jan? > I'm> really curious about
>> your involvement with Ilena Rosenthal.>>> But I guess my most basic
>> question is whether or not you are in California> (like I am), or over in
>> Indiana, like your profile says.>>> I had thought you were out west, but
>> I
>> guess not.>>> As Salaam Aleikum!>>> Aloysious>
>> Mark Probert markprobert1...@hotmail.com AloysiousX
>
> From: msprob...@aol.com (MSProbert)
> Subject: Re: lying ADD stepson
> Date: 1996/05/08
> Message-ID: <4mr0jm$p...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>#1/1
> X-Deja-AN: 153807633
> sender: r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
> references: <3190C0...@emeraldis.com>
> organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
> newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents
>
>
> In article <3190C016....@emeraldis.com>, Timbo <ri...@emeraldis.com>
> writes:
>
>>I have a 12 year old stepson who has a problem with lying. He will lie
> about
>>anything. He constantly lies about not having homework, and has no
> interest
>>in school. Any time he does something wrong, he tells one lie after
> another
>>to keep himself out of trouble. We tell him that we all make mistakes and
>
>>occasionlly lie, but to continually tell one lie after another is only
> going
>>to get in more trouble. Usually his punishment is being grounded are
> having
>>priveledges taken away
>
> Sounds like my 12 year old. We had the same problems. We backed off on the
> punishment about a year ago and instituted specific rewards for
> truthfulness. We also lessened the amount of punishment and deprivation.
> Instead of giving him a chance to say he has no homework, the school faxes
> me a copy of his HW list daily. Things have gotten better.
>
> Mark S. Probert
> Merrick, New York
>
> From: msprob...@aol.com (MSProbert)
> Subject: Re: **Need fast CASH? Here it is!**
> Date: 1996/09/28
> Message-ID: <52j2ku$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>#1/1
> X-Deja-AN: 185820786
> sender: r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
> references: <324B1F...@netrover.com>
> organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
> newsgroups: alt.stupidity
>
>
> In article <324B1FB9.1...@netrover.com>, Pringles <pring...@netrover.com>
> writes:
>
>>THAT WAS EXCITING!! So how much did I
>>get in total return? $1000? $5000? Not even!!! I received a total of
>>$23,343!!! I couldn't believe it!!
>
> I sent a copy of your message to the IRS and asked them to collect back
> taxes and send me the 10% bounty. They'll then send the message to the
> USPS as yours is an illegal pyramid scheme and will get you 5 years and
> $10,000 in fines. AND they take your internet access away!
>
>
>
> Mark S. Probert
> Merrick, New York
>
> From: msprob...@aol.com (MSProbert)
> Subject: Re: Beginning Babysitter
> Date: 1996/04/22
> Message-ID: <4lgasn$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>#1/1
> X-Deja-AN: 150814229
> sender: r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
> references: <1996Apr21....@news.iup.edu>
> organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
> newsgroups: alt.parenting.solutions
>
> In article <1996Apr21.235647.6...@news.iup.edu>, b...@grove.iup.edu
> (Matthew R. St. John) writes:
>
>>I have a question for you. I am a college student Ealy Childhood
> education
>>major. I did not discover my love for children until right before I
> entered
>>collegeso I did not do a lot of babysitting in my teen years. But now I
> am
>>looking to do that to help with getting experience with young children.
> But
>>how do I get started being that I do not have a lot of refrences, one to
> be
>>precise. So what should I do to get the ball rolling. Any suggestions
> would
>>be welcome.
>
> OT: For What it is Worth
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/d4233af27b0d7597
>
> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
> From: Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com>
> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:44:01 GMT
> Local: Tues, Nov 28 2006 5:44 pm
> Subject: Re: OT: For What it is Worth
>
>
> pmoran wrote:
>> Mark, what gives? These are awful accusations and it smells of fakery
>> .
>> It should have been possible to check some of the facts, such as that
>> the child care centre was closed down. Why were criminal charges not
>> laid if these accusations were true?
>
>> I don't think this should have been posted, even as a joke or to make a
>> point, however well-deserved. Bolen and Ilena have amply demonstrated
>> how lies can acquire a life of their own on Usenet.
>
>
>> Can you withdraw it?
>
>
>
> Yes, but for a price. Nothing for free any more.
>
> I want peace. I have asked for it, I have lived it. I want peace.
>
>
> I will do whatever is necessary for peace, except give in to Ilena's and
> Jan extortion.
>
> [That was so filled with LIES that you made up, you had it removed from
> Google]
>
>
>
> If you really want to try something really hard, and really rewarding,
> contact the local United Cerebral Palsy center and ask them for a list of
> respite programs, and where you can get some training in working with
> multiply handicapped children. Then become a respite worker (most areas
> have a shortage). Pays better than babysitting in more ways than one.
> Respite workers provide time off for parents of severely disabled
> children.
>
> Father of Josh-12-ADHD and Noah-7-CP.
>
> Mark S. Probert
> Merrick, New York
>
>
>
> It's OK to have your own opinions, but it's
>> not OK to attempt to brow beat them into others. One would think that
>> with a subject as contentious as this one is here that one ought to let
>> it slide or quit cross posting it into alt.support.autism.
>>
>> As for the original posting I whole wholeheartedly agree. I see autism
>> as a neurological difference not a psychological abnormality and it
>> doesn't belong in the DSM VI and I shouldn't have to take my son to a
>> damned Shrink to get a stamp of approval every year in order to recieve
>> the services he requires and deserves.
>
> Fully agree. Why should you have to do it more than once? I know a
> family where the child could not be serv ed by any state approved
> facility due to a complexity of multiple problems. Only one provided
> could address all and their school district had no problem with that.
>
> Except for the fact that they had to go through the entire process
> year after year.
>
> The Mom in that household was so thankful for a gift of an old
> computer with WordPerfect and a printer. All she has had to do was
> change the dates for the last ten years.
>
>
>
Jan Drew
"Linda" <Indomi...@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:e0c302e6-7cdb-4773...@d19g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 30, 6:01 pm, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> They are different people, as I have dealt with both for years.
Jan, you're slipping.
Oh? Please provide the proof.
Probert's assertion that he's dealt with me for years is a blatant
LIE.
My post stated nothing about that.
It's been many years since I've had any dealings whatsoever with Mark
S. Probert or any of the other criminals who conspired with convicted
child molesters, authors of Pedarestic SMBD FAQ's, subscribers of
unlawful child porno forums like alt.binaries.pictures.asparagus,
phone sex proprietors and porno kings to blackmail, terrorize and
murder innocent american soccer moms, little league dads, and their
children.
Au contraire...
Mark S. Probert is amongst the longstanding named recipients of my
legally binding Public Notice to Cease and Desist misusing interactive
computer services to pursue unwanted and unwelcome communications with
yours truly, in violation of the laws of my state of residence,
which explicitly includes NEWSGROUPS amongst the venues where
malicious creeps like Mark S. Probert are prohibited from
cyberharassing me or conspiring with other malicious individuals to
blackmail, terrorize and murder me and mine.
And?
I see nothing in my post about you whatsoever.
If I failed to read that, feel free to point it out.
Raving
> Raving wrote:
>
> Sometime you've just got to say "Fuck em" instead of "Fuck me".
It doesn't seem to be by accident that I find myself descending ever
deeper by way of an iterated game of prisoner's dilemma.
It isn't fun.
Bob Badour
Prisoner's Dilemma takes two players. Who is the other player?
Buzzard
> Here I shall take it from the top and bluntly hack my way through
> it ...
>
> * Of late there has been considerable discussion in the press about a
> *new* and radically different theory-of-autism. "Autism is not a
> disease. It is a manner of thought which is normal and successful."
The only autism cases I have ever heard of were those I
saw on TV, and they looked absolutely debilitating.
("normal and successful" ... I don't see how.)
> (snip)
> * Despite having autism, many autistic individuals achieve very
> successful careers, lives and accomplishments. Despite the liabilities
> and limitations that autism risks, having autism also strongly
> demonstrates a strong likelihood for reward and success.
On TV, then, they must've only shown the severe cases.
> * Whereas the concept that "autism is normal and appropriate" might be
> *new* for the lifelong suffering autistic, for those with ADHD, it is
> an old story. One thing which seems to set ADHD apart from the other
> thought disorders is a deep, confident, resolute conviction that the
> characteristics typified by "ADHD" are the ADHD sufferer's strength
> and ability.
Among some. Others are screaming into the night:
"Dammit Goddammit what the hell is wrong with me?!?"
> The reason that I blow my horn is that I have a description for which
> each of the 5 thought disorders provides an independent, self-
> contained, method of solution for a single common task.
That may have been before i joined asad. which 5? what task?
I never saw the description.
> Maybe I am stupid, ignorant, deluded, narcissistic, incompetent,
> uneducated, subjective, desperate, crazy, pathetic ...
> (snip)
> I lack the confidence necessary to develop, continue, build and polish
> my assertion. My former ADHD psychiatrist and specialist dumped me. My
> former PhD supervisor dumped me.
PhD supervisor? That means you already have a
master's degree, right?
....
Out of curiosity...
Are ADD and Autism related in some way?
Buzzard
> This is my final Usenet post.
you'll be back. Usenet doesn't let go
of a person that easily. If you don't feel
like posting, lurk awhile.
Raving
It is due for a rewrite and revision.
>
> > Maybe I am stupid, ignorant, deluded, narcissistic, incompetent,
> > uneducated, subjective, desperate, crazy, pathetic ...
> > (snip)
> > I lack the confidence necessary to develop, continue, build and polish
> > my assertion. My former ADHD psychiatrist and specialist dumped me. My
> > former PhD supervisor dumped me.
>
> PhD supervisor? That means you already have a
> master's degree, right?
Nope. I bypassed (or never passed) that step. (depending upon how one
views it.)
Terry Jones
<buz...@domain.invalid.net> wrote:
>The only autism cases I have ever heard of were those I
>saw on TV, and they looked absolutely debilitating.
And mostly kids I'd guess?
What you see / read in the media is very non-representative. The
charities want your money (either as contributions or as taxpayers),
so they "play the pity card", and select exemplars who visibly show
problems - even though those are not typical of the whole group.
(Plus plenty of the issues associated with autism are "invisible", but
these don't get the attention, nor unfortunately the funding).
The media themselves want spectacle and attention grabbers. Generally
"good news is no news" at least when it involves people just getting
on with their lives.
The autism "industry" has a vested interest in;
(a) Making things appear as bad as possible so the worried parents
will fork out for their "cures" and "therapies".
(b) Targeting what they think the parents think is important (which
again is mostly the more visible elements), rather than what autistics
themselves say they want help with.
Due to these and other sources of bias, the media image conveys a very
distorted picture of autism and autistics.
--
Terry
Bob Badour
> Raving wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity...
> Are ADD and Autism related in some way?
What Terry said, and yes ADD and ADHD often run in the same families as
autism does.
Among the autistic community, one will often see these and a couple
other things referred to as AC for autism cousins. They are not
officially part of the autism spectrum, but more than a little evidence
suggests they are related.
The Autist formerly known as
no mental illnesses in it at all, just a collection of symptoms,
suppositions and popular prejudices.
--
�T
L'autisme c'est moi
"Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
believe in the laws of mathematics"
"rpautrey2" <rpau...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2bd0f1b-ab93-4df2...@d19g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
April 20, 2009
Autism is Not Mental Illness: Get it Out of the DSM
By Jill Rubolino
In this month of Autism Awareness, I am ever so aware of the great
disparity for our children on the autism spectrum regarding their
diagnosis and healthcare. It brings to light some major changes that
need to take place in order to not only stop the perpetual,
exponentially expanding numbers of children developing autism, but to
provide the already affected children with proper medical care and
treatment.
In a health care community that listed homosexuality as a psychiatric
disorder on the DSM until 1973, and recognizes alcoholism, addiction
and obesity as diseases, our children are suffering and being denied
proper medical attention. Not only are our doctors not acknowledging
our children�s medical ailments, they are flat out denying to us that
they are occurring or that somehow these conditions are some normal
variation of childhood.
This needs to stop immediately. It will only stop when parents demand
competent and educated pediatricians for their children and settle for
nothing less. We must no longer listen to the false and
unsubstantiated litany of canned text responses we hear from
uninformed, uneducated pediatricians and specialists. We must no
longer accept the standard answers that all refer back to one, already
discredited study, regarding vaccine safety. When pediatricians site
their references, how many parents ask them to explain that
information? How many doctors could? And yet, how many parents that we
know can site study after study, and explain biochemical abnormalities
�til the cows come home?Autism as a diagnosis must be removed from the
DSM. Period. It is a medical disorder, with many causes, some of them
genetic and totally unrelated to a psychiatric diagnosis altogether.
Down�s syndrome is a medical diagnosis, has an identifiable genetic
abnormality, and a range of associated features also affecting that
person developmentally. It is not, however, diagnosed using the DSM.
Autism is not currently recognized as a medical disorder because, if
not diagnosed as a known genetic cause, it is a disorder caused by
environmental insult, including vaccines.
The resulting medical problems are symptoms of the underlying cause,
not the disorder itself. But because this medical disorder is caused
by vaccines given to our children by the very people who are supposed
to care for them and keep them healthy, it will not be recognized as
such. No other disorder, psychiatric or otherwise, is so blatantly
denied its medical or biochemical component except autism.
No amount of early detection or early intervention will reverse a
disease process unless it is treated medically. It is a process, that
left untreated, will perpetuate itself to variable degrees in each
individual with sometimes irreversible and devastating effects. The
medical community turning its back on basic medical principles in
treating their autistic patients� symptoms first can only be referred
to as gross malpractice.
The pediatricians that are treating our children should be ashamed and
embarrassed at their complete negligence and incompetence in
recognizing a pattern of symptoms that is seen over and over again,
hundreds, and thousands of times in this patient population. And yet,
they cling to their outdated, obviously inadequate standard answers
and bury their heads in the sand while our children suffer and sink
deeper and deeper into Autism. Every parent of an autistic child has
heard some ridiculous, condescending statement from a physician while
they ignored that same child�s obvious vaccine reaction, or explosive
diarrhea, abdominal pain, mysterious rash, poor weight gain, reflux,
relentless fever, immune dysfunction, and on, and on. And they ignore
us, because they can.
Pediatricians, vaccine manufacturers, the CDC, and our federal
government are all protected under laws that are unconstitutional.
That�s right. Your pediatrician doesn�t have to worry about being
sued for your child�s descent into Autism after their MMR, or Proquad
because the US Federal Government says so. Even though adequate
informed consent is never provided, and protocols for vaccinating are
rarely followed appropriately.
Children get vaccinated without being screened for immune dysfunction,
mitochondrial disorders, and even when they have a febrile illness,
all inappropriate according to the vaccine makers� own
recommendations. Yet, where are all the suits being filed for this
obvious malpractice? Because, as parents, we are spending every
waking moment and every dime we have trying to recover our children,
we have no resources to venture into this legal arena with special
masters and shorter statute of limitations. In a country where the
father of a child that resulted from a rape has a legal right to that
child, our children have no legal rights. By the time we navigate the
myriad of professionals that are deemed qualified to diagnose our
children as autistic, our statute of limitations has already expired.
It will take one individual with deep pockets and a fire burning in
their soul, to bring change. There is no exemption for gross
negligence by a physician even if it�s one of our kids. You are not
protected under the umbrella of indifference. It will only take one
case, one precedent. Change will happen.
The controversy about vaccines rages on, but only in the minds of
those officials who are themselves, responsible for the conspiracy to
conceal the truth about vaccines. All of the supposed nonexistent,
mainstream medical studies that apply to vaccines, and thimerosol,
mitochondrial disorder and dysfunction, seizure disorder, aluminum
etc. are all easily accessed by anyone with a computer and half a
brain. This may explain why the officials, that coincidentally have
some type of connection to vaccine manufacturers, cannot seem to find
them. All of the necessary medical documentation, studies,
information, case studies, etc. are there and readily available for
anyone who wasn�t deluding themselves that they can still go on
national television and tout that everything is okay. This political,
money driven quagmire will come to an end. Big tobacco took a fall
and so will vaccine pushers. And I�m thinking of one gentleman in
particular, I think we all know who that is, you will not make it off
this planet in an upward direction, sir.
I�ll leave you with the thought that for the same reasons that people
fought for civil rights, government officials are impeached, landmark
cases are won, people have overcome adversity throughout history to
affect change, we must do the same for our cause. I will pledge from
this day forward that the next time I get that look from a doctor, you
know, the placating one you get when you start to talk
gastrointestinal, I will put my foot down. I will say, �Why do you
look at me that way? Do you not believe what I am saying or are you
just not aware how negligent you have been in my child�s care? Why did
you not recommend a genetic work up for my child? Why have you not
tested his lead level before now? Why is it that while I sit here in
receipt of that condescending look, you don�t even realize that every
new piece of information I have found out about my child�s medical
condition is because I looked for it and not you? As we sit here
right now,
I know infinitely more about how to treat the medical condition of
autism than you, and quite frankly, you should be on the receiving end
of that very same look you are giving me. As we sit here and you
comment on how well my child is doing, and how far he has come, it is
only because of me, and not you, acting as his medical professional
and managing his care, and at the same time, being damn good at it.�
So pediatricians, and specialists be aware and beware. We will no
longer tolerate substandard, negligent care for our kids. And while
we might be the government�s scapegoat right now, that curtain will
come down, and they will sell you out just as fast. And then my
friends, you won�t be able to afford your malpractice insurance.
Jill Rubolino is the mother of two beautiful children, one who was
affected by vaccines and diagnosed with PDD-NOS. She, along with her
husband Richard, is currently working on her son�s recovery and
returning his body to a healthy state. Jill has been a nurse for
fifteen years and is appalled at the lack of appropriate medical care
for ASD kids. Along with friend Jeanna Reed (fellow nurse and mom to a
vaccine injured son) they plan to do something about it. Their
company, Autism Is Medical, Inc., focuses on educating doctors and
parents and bridging the gap between them. They can be found at
www.autismismedical.com.
Arak
Why do you keep posting this stuff?
I'm curious, because you went from hardly posting anything to posting
all of this all of a sudden. You going through a rough patch or
something?
I'm not trying to be passive aggressive. I'm being very direct because
I want to understand what your motive is.
Arak /|\
Buzzard
And if they're mild, might one go from
cradle to grave and never be diagnosed?
Arak
I could see that happening. Recently, I met a 65 year old man who
*just* got diagnosed with AS. Had he not been seeking it, he might
never have been diagnosed. I wonder how many others are out there?
Arak /|\
Buzzard
> Buzzard scribbled:
>>Raving wrote:
>>>(snip)
>>>The reason that I blow my horn is that I have a description for which
>>>each of the 5 thought disorders provides an independent, self-
>>>contained, method of solution for a single common task.
>>
>>That may have been before i joined asad. which 5? what task?
>>I never saw the description.
>
> See http://tinyurl.com/c3v7ke
>
> It is due for a rewrite and revision.
An interesting article, what i could understand of it...
By all means, rewrite that, and take your time with it.
Rewriting allows one, with each iteration, to condense
what is there, to reorganize pargraphs, and to make statements
much easier for the less-educated to understand without
changing the meaning of what it is you're saying.
(I have only a 2yr degree from a community college,
and its not in psych)
Also, more detail concerning the various styles...?
Raving wrote at c3v7ke back in 2007:
(2007? does google archive everything forever?)
> I suspect that it is essential for any person to have a specific,
> constant, strongly constrained "habit-of-awareness". The activity
> serves as a tool of registration, ordering and alignment. "Thinking"
> without such a deliberately imposed constraint seems implausible.
> Everyone has a very specific, narrow and constant point of view. .. a
> constant reference perspective.
> It is the single most valuable thing that a person can know of him
> or her self. It provides a great deal of context.
I suppose it must. I have a tendency to occasionally
blunder outside of my point of view, like a hiker who
fails to notice that the path has taken a turn.
When that happens, I feel lost; yet sometimes, i like it.
--
Captain Klutz
Bob Badour
Define "mild". Asperger's didn't even exist as an official diagnosis
until I was nearly 30 after I was already divorced, and I am still not
officially diagnosed. (Self diagnosed with no uncertainty whatsoever,
though.)
There is also what is called the BAP or broader autism phenotype.
Relatives of autistics often have measurable differences from the
general population without meeting any sort of diagnostic criteria.
For example, male relatives of autistics on average take longer to
switch tasks, which suggests very mild executive dysfunction.
Bob Badour
P.S. I am reasonably certain my grandfather was an aspie just like I am.
He died a few years ago, and of course, he was never diagnosed. His
dementia began not long after DSM-IV was released when he was already in
his mid-80's so nobody would have been all that concerned with
asperger's in his case.
Buzzard
I just now googled "diagnosed with AS", and it sent me to
http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html
....
..
AAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHGHHHHH!!!!!!!