Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to Shooting Rampage
Jan Drew
NaturalNews.com printable article
Originally published February 17 2008
Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to Shooting Rampage
by Mike Adams
(NaturalNews) It comes as no surprise to anyone who's been following school
shootings all the way back to the Colombine High massacre in Colorado: Every
young, male shooter that has gone on a killing spree in the United States
also has a history of treatment with psychotropic drugs -- typically SSRI
antidepressants. These shootings have three things in common: 1) The
shooters are young males. 2) The shooters exhibit a mind-numbed disconnect
with reality. 3) The shooters have a history of taking psychiatric
medications.
This latest shooting by 27-year-old Stephen Kazmierczak shares the same
three factors. Stephen was considered a "normal, undistressed person,"
according to press reports. He was considered "an outstanding student" and
even received a Dean's Award for outstanding work in sociology. So what
happened to Stephen's brain that caused him to snap and open fire on
students in a college classroom?
Psych meds make good people do bad things
Psychiatric medications, of course, are well known to cause extremely
violent thoughts and behavior in young males. This is actually acknowledged
by the FDA and is found in the black-box warnings printed on the packaging
for such drugs. In Europe, the prescribing of many such drugs to children
and teens is actually illegal. But in the United States, where psychiatric
medications have become the "new medicine" for American youth, nobody seems
to pay attention to the simple fact that every school shooting we've seen in
the last decade has been committed by a young male with a history of
treatment with psychiatric medications.
The mainstream media, of course, is trying to spin the story by claiming
Stephen snapped because he stopped taking his medications. MSM headlines
proclaim, "Illinois Shooter Stopped Taking His Medications." What these
headlines fail to communicate is the fact that psychiatric drugs cause
long-term disruptions in the brain which lead to a strong dissociation with
reality. These young, male shooters hardly even know they're in the real
world anymore. They no longer see their fellow classmates as human beings,
but rather as lifeless objects to be used for target practice. For those
people taking psychiatric medications, there's even a strong dissociation
with one's own life, as evidenced by the repeated willingness of these
shooters to ultimately turn their guns on themselves.
These are precisely the kinds of things acted out by people who take psych
medications: Disconnection with reality, disconnection with self, and
disconnection with others. Modern psychiatric medicine is in the business of
taking people who feel depressed and chemically lobotomizing their brains so
they feel nothing. Once they feel nothing, there's nothing stopping them
from unloading on fellow human beings with firearms. They no longer feel
empathy or compassion. Nothing matters anymore. This is strongly
characteristic of the well-documented side effects of psychiatric
medications.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Illinois shooter's history of taking
psychiatric medications was the primary cause of his violent behavior. It
doesn't take a genius to figure out that if every single shooter in recent
memory was treated with psych meds, and if those same psych meds are well
known to cause violent thoughts and suicidal behavior, it's fairly obvious
that the chemicals are the most likely cause of the behavioral problems.
It's also worth noting that before children were prescribed such medications
in America, school shootings were virtually unheard of. It was only after
psychiatric medicine started targeting young people with mind-altering
medications that we witnessed this explosion in violence.
Pharmaceutical-induced violence
Until we stop medication young people with mind-altering psychotropic drugs,
we will simply not see an end to this pharmaceutical-induced violence. Even
if you somehow manage to take away all the guns, similar atrocities can be
carried out with machetes, swords, knives or explosives. The problem here is
not simply the weapon, but rather the mind behind the trigger. When minds
are disturbed through psychiatric medications and young men are trapped in a
chemically-induced state of sub-consciousness with no connection to reality,
outbursts of mindless violence are exactly what you're going to get.
In fact, I publicly predicted this school shooting in a December 7, 2007
article about the mall shooter in Omaha, where I said:
There will be more. I hate to be accurate about this grisly prediction,
because I grieve for the families of those lost to pharmaceutically-induced
violence, but the truth is that until we stop drugging our children with
psychotropic drugs, the shootings are not going to stop.
And as sad as this tragedy is for all those affected by this
medication-induced violence, the truly sad part is that America still hasn't
learned this lesson. If you drug the children with chemicals that cause
violence, you're going to see more shootings. It's as simple as that. And if
you take away the guns, you'll see bombs, knives or machetes used in these
attacks. When disturbed young boys are doped up on psychotropic drugs that
promote violence -- and they're drugged by the hundreds of thousands -- it's
like playing a national game of Russian roulette (with apologies to Russia).
Sooner or later, another kid whose mind has been altered by Ritalin, Prozac
or some other drug is going to walk into yet another school or mall and
start killing people. This kind of behavior is a direct product of
chemical-based psychiatric "treatment."
Let me now continue that prediction by stating that the Illinois shooting
won't be the last one, either. As long as the psychiatric industry -- which
is now run by Big Pharma -- is allowed to run amok and "play doctor" with
the chemicals in children's brains, we're going to continue to see school
shootings, bombings, stabbings and other outbursts of violence. While
ignorant psych docs will say the population needs more drugs, and while
silly voters will call for bans on guns, nothing will actually prevent this
kind of violence in America until we stop drugging our children with
mind-altering drugs and stop exposing them to extremely violent video games
and television shows. In fact, I believe it is the combination of violent TV
programming and mind-altering psych meds that ultimately leads to the kind
of violence that took place in Illinois.
Modern psychiatry kills
In Illinois, Omaha, Colombine, Virginia Tech and other places, the real
murderers are not simply the young men who pulled the triggers but rather
the criminal minds running modern psychiatry -- an industry that preys upon
young men and boys, enslaving them in a regimen of mind-altering chemicals
that create disturbed behaviors, all while calling it "treatment."
While the MSM will, of course, sensationalize this story and blame the lone
shooter, the real culprits behind this latest massacre are the psychiatric
doctors and drug companies who continue to push these dangerous,
mind-altering drugs onto young men, knowing full well that a certain
percentage of them will exhibit extremely violent behavior. Of course, in
order to protect its revenues and power over people, modern psychiatry has
selectively decided to deny the existence of any link between mind-altering
drugs and mindless violence, insisting that these young men actually need
more chemical treatment, not less. The only reason Stephen Kazmierczak went
on a shooting spree, if you ask the psychiatrists, is because he didn't have
enough synthetic chemicals in his brain! America needs more drugs, didn't
you know?
Of course, that reasoning is absurd from the outset. What Stephen needed was
mental clarity, not chemical obfuscation. Do mind-altering drugs provide
mental clarity? Of course not. They suppress clarity, causing mental
confusion and dissociation. In some people, they can cause extremely violent
outbursts of behavior. Mental clarity (and balanced behavior) is only
achieved through a chemical-free diet and lifestyle... one that's based on
fresh produce, plant-based diets, superfoods and natural, chemical-free
products. What Stephen needed, in summary, was green living. Had he been on
a plant-based diet, he never would have gone on that shooting rampage.
Natural health consumers are far more mentally balanced
Tet me finish this story with yet another prediction: You will never see a
shooting rampage conducted by a raw foods advocate who practices green
living, who eats no animal products, who uses no drugs and who takes no
pharmaceuticals. Those people are the most emotionally balanced,
compassionate and healthy individuals you'll ever find. The chances of a
green living person ever "snapping" and going on a shooting rampage are
zero. Search all the news archives you want: You'll never find a single case
of someone on a plant-based diet with no chemicals in their bodies going off
and killing people.
It's only people who eat animal products and who take mind-altering
medications that end up committing these violent acts.
Too bad most of the journalists who work for the mainstream media are too
doped up themselves to notice these fairly obvious correlations. Most of
those folks are on psych meds, too, and you see it in their writing, which
exhibits an astounding disconnect with reality. The mass medication of
people in America has become so "normal" that journalists no longer think
medications could possibly have any role in aberrant behavior. And so we're
left with the blind reporting to the blind about events caused by the blind.
(In this case, "blind" meaning a lack of awareness / consciousness.)
It's a sad, sad state of affairs, and when future historians look back on
why America failed as a nation, they will probably shake their heads in
disbelief (or laugh their heads off) over the mass medication of an entire
population. Seriously, our present-day practices of medicating everybody
will someday seem just as stupid as doctors' use of radiation in the early
20th century to give people "more energy." It's true: Doctors often
prescribed irradiated pills, irradiated water and other radioactive
substances to their patients, claiming they would give them energy. Today,
we know the radiation was poisonous and the practice was stupid, but one
thing I've noticed about the history of medicine is that doctors always
manage to find a new scam that keeps them rich while poisoning the people. A
hundred years ago, it was radiation pills. Today, it's depression pills.
Same scam, different era. Same stupid doctors. Same gullible population.
There truly is nothing new under the sun.
How Big Pharma recruits mindless soldiers for the Pentagon
Oh, and by the way, on the conspiracy side of things, did you ever wonder
why it's primarily young boys who are drugged with violence-inducing
chemicals? Notice that violent young men also make highly effective soldiers
who can mindlessly commit violent atrocities against prisoners in secret
U.S. military bases like, say, Gitmo. The more the U.S. government can drug
young men and cause them to feel nothing, the more easily they can sign them
up to go murder innocents in whatever country is being targeted next by the
imperialist Bush was machine.
Pharmaceuticals and war go hand in hand, and the more minds that can be
nullified by pharmaceuticals, the more mindless bodies are made available
for the Pentagon's war machine. And that, of course, is exactly what makes a
good soldier these days: A mindless body that follows orders, commits
violence and feels nothing. Funny how Big Pharma just happens to manufacture
chemicals that accomplish the same thing, huh? You could call it "chemical
recruitment" for the U.S. military. The kid gets put on SSRIs today, and in
a few years his mind will be warped enough to sign up for military service
and be told who to shoot, torture or kill. And he'll do it without question,
because he's been chemically prepped for the whole experience thanks to
modern psychiatry -- a murderous, evil cabal of Frankenbrain doctors whose
arrogance is only exceeded by their own lust for power over the minds of the
masses.
Care to guess where this is all leading the United States of America? Stay
tuned, and I'll bring you more predictions of the downfall of America in
future articles. Don't be the last to learn what's really coming in this
country. The mass drugging of the population is only a small piece of the
big picture. For now, stay alert and mindful. Avoid all chemicals. Live
green, and stay connected with the real world around you (the real world
being nature). Invest in your own education and health, and you'll be better
prepared for the tidal wave of global changes yet to come -- changes that
will shatter the illusions under which most people live today, and may
eventually lead to the birth of a new civilization no longer based on
predatory instincts.
Frank
"Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:xWNuj.9893$0o7....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
> Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to Shooting Rampage
> by Mike Adams
>
85% of Americans ate a corn product within a week before they died.
marcia
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
ROFL!
Jan Drew
"Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote:
[ ]
>
> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:xWNuj.9893$0o7....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
http://www.naturalnews.com/z022656.html
NaturalNews.com printable article
Originally published February 17 2008
Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to Shooting Rampage
by Mike Adams
(NaturalNews) It comes as no surprise to anyone who's been following school
Jan Drew
marcia
> "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote:
> > ROFL!
>
> Sad that.
Sad, the media's interpretation and reporting of the use of psych meds
relative to the incident. For one thing, the shooter had gone OFF his
meds, which suggests that perhaps had he kept taking them the shooting
might never have occurred. And for another thing, there is no evidence
to suggest psych meds are the cause of violence. Remember the
University of Texas bell tower shooting? There were no medications
involved prior to that incident--just one deranged, mentally ill
student. I think someone is drawing the wrong conclusions.
Therefore, Frank's interpretation is just as good as that of the
journalist--and twice as entertaining.
Mark Probert
> On Feb 21, 3:28 am, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote:
> > > ROFL!
>
> > Sad that.
>
> Sad, the media's interpretation and reporting of the use of psych meds
> relative to the incident. For one thing, the shooter had gone OFF his
> meds, which suggests that perhaps had he kept taking them the shooting
> might never have occurred. And for another thing, there is no evidence
> to suggest psych meds are the cause of violence. Remember the
> University of Texas bell tower shooting? There were no medications
> involved prior to that incident--just one deranged, mentally ill
> student. I think someone is drawing the wrong conclusions.
Well said. This is a fact that the anti-medders ignore.
Jan Drew
"marcia" <des...@insight.rr.com> wrote in message
news:f2b995d7-3ae2-43de...@h25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 21, 3:28 am, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote:
>> > ROFL!
>>
>> Sad that.
>
> Sad, the media's interpretation and reporting of the use of psych meds
> relative to the incident. For one thing, the shooter had gone OFF his
> meds, which suggests that perhaps had he kept taking them the shooting
> might never have occurred. And for another thing, there is no evidence
> to suggest psych meds are the cause of violence.
Wrong again
Among the specifically school-related attacks the site documents are:
In 1988, 31-year-old Laurie Dann, who had been taking Anafranil and Lithium,
walked into a second-grade classroom in Winnetka, Ill., and began shooting.
One child was killed and six wounded.
Later that same year, 19-year-old James Wilson went on a shooting rampage at
the Greenwood, S.C., Elementary School and killed two 8-year-old girls and
wounded seven others. He'd been on Xanax, Valium and five other drugs.
Kip Kinkel, a 15-year-old of Springfield, Ore., in 1998 murdered his parents
and proceeded to his high school where he went on a rampage killing two
students and wounding 22 others. Kinkel had been prescribed both Prozac and
Ritalin.
Patrick Purdy, 25, in 1989 opened fire on a school yard filled with children
in Stockton, Calif. Five kids were killed and 30 wounded. He been treated
with Thorazine and Amitriptyline.
Steve Lieth of Chelsea, Mich., in 1993 walked into a school meeting and shot
and killed the school superintendent, wounding two others, while on Prozac.
10-year-old Tommy Becton in 1996 grabbed his 3-year-old niece as a shield
and aimed a shotgun at a sheriff's deputy who accompanied a truant officer
to his Florida home. He'd been put on Prozac.
Michael Carneal, 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting
in Heath High in West Paducah, Ky. Three died and one was paralyzed. Carneal
reportedly was on Ritalin.
In 1998, 11-year-old Andrew Golden and 14-year-old Mitchell Johnson
apparently faked a fire alarm at Westside Middle School in Jonesboro, Ark.,
and shot at students as they left the building. Four students and a teacher
were killed. The boys were believed to be on Ritalin.
In 1999, Shawn Cooper, 15, of Notus, Idaho, took a shotgun to school and
injured one student. He had been taking Ritalin.
April 20, 1999, Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, shot and killed 12
classmates and a teacher and wounded 24 others. Harris had been taking
Luvox.
Todd Smith walked into as high school in Taber, Alberta, Canada in 1999 with
a shotgun and killed one and injured a second student. He has been given a
drug after a five-minute phone consultation with a psychiatrist.
Steven Abrams drove his car into a preschool playground in 1999 in Costa
Mesa., Calif., killing two. He was on probation with a requirement to take
Lithium.
In 2000, T.J. Solomon, 15, opened fire at Heritage High School in Conyers,
Ga., while on a mix of antidepressants. Six were wounded.
The same year Seth Trickey of Gibson, Okla., 13, was on a variety of
prescriptions when he opened fire on his middle-school class, injuring five.
Elizabeth Bush, 14, was on Prozac. She shot and wounded another student at
Bishop Neumann High in Williamsport, Pa.
Jason Hoffman, 18, in 2001 was on Effexor and Celexa, both antidepressants,
when he wounded two teachers at California's Granite Hills High School.
In Wahluke, Wash., Cory Baadsgaard, 16, took a rifle to his high schooland
held 23 classmates hostage in 2001. He has been taking Paxil and Effexor.
In Tokyo in 2001, Mamoru Takuma, 37, went into a second-grade classroom and
started stabbing students. He killed eight. He had taken 10 times his normal
dosage of an antidepressant.
Duane Morrison, 53, shot and killed a girl at Platte Canyon High School in
Colorado in 2006. Antidepressants later were found in his vehicle.
In 2005, 16-year-old Native American Jeff Weise on the Red Lake Indian
Reservation in Minnesota was under the influence of the antidepressant
Prozac when he shot and killed nine people and wounding five before
committing suicide.
Another case involving a school-age youth ? although not at a school ?
happened in 1986, when 14-year-old Rod Mathews of Canton, Mass., beat a
classmate to death with a baseball bat while on Ritalin.
And just a few among the dozens of incidents cited, but not apparently
related to schools:
William Cruse in 1987 was charged with killing six people in Palm Bay, Fla.,
after taking psychiatric drugs for "several years."
The same year, Bartley James Dobben killed his two young sons by throwing
them into a 1,300-degree foundry ladle. He been on a "regimen" of
psychiatric drugs.
Joseph T. WesBecker, 47, just a month after he began taking Prozac, shot 20
workers at Standard Gravure Corp. in Louisville, Ky., killing nine. Eli
Lilly, which makes Prozac, later settled a lawsuit brought by survivors.
In 1991, 61-year-old Barbara Mortenson, on Prozac for two weeks,
"cannibalized her 87-year-old mother ?"
In 1992, Lynnwood Drake III, shot and killed six in San Luis Obispo and
Morro Bay. Prozac and Valium were found in his system.
Sixteen-year-old Victor Brancaccio attacked and killed an 81-year-old woman,
covered her corpse with red spray-paint. He was two months into a Zoloft
regimen.
While on four medications including Prozac, Dr. Debora Green in 1995 set her
Prairie Village, Mo., home on fire, killing her children, ages 6 and 13.
Kurt Danysh, 18, shot and killed his father in 1996, 17 days after his first
dose of Prozac. "I didn't realize I did it until after it was done. ? This
might sound weird, but it felt like I had no control of what I was doing,
like I was left there just holding a gun."
In 1998, GlaxoSmithKline, maker of Paxil, was ordered to pay $6.4 million to
surviving family members after Donald Schnell, 60, just 48 hours after
taking Paxil, flew into a rage and killed his wife, daughter and
granddaughter.
The website also cites psychiatrist Chester M. Pierce, in a speech
advocating for the treatment of children and youth.
"Every child in America entering school at the age of five is insane because
he comes to school with certain allegiances to our founding fathers, towards
our elected officials, towards his parents, towards a belief in a
supernatural being, and towards the sovereignty of this nation as a separate
entity. It's up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well ? by
creating the international child of the future," Pierce told a 1973
childhood seminar.
Breggin's conclusion that whatever mental manifestations were causing Cho's
dangerous behavior, resulting in a professor asking for him to be removed
from her class and two complaints of stalking, there was a solution.
"The answer to vengeful, violent people is not more mental health screening
or more potent mental health interventions. Reliance on the whole range of
this system from counseling to involuntary treatment failed. There is not a
shred of scientific evidence that locking people up against their will or
otherwise 'treating' them reduces violence. As we'll see, quite the opposite
is true," he wrote. "So what was needed? Police intervention."
He wrote that "it's not politically correct to bring criminal charges
against someone who is 'mentally ill' and it's not politically correct to
prosecute him or to remove him from the campus. Yet that's what was needed
to protect the students. Two known episodes of stalking, setting a fire, and
his threatening behavior in class should have been more than enough for the
university administration to bring charges against him and to send him off
campus."
He continued with a warning, "And what about drugs for the treatment of
violence? The FDA has not approved any medications for the control of
violence because there are no such medications. Yes, it is possible to
temporarily immobilize mind and body alike with a shot of an 'antipsychotic'
drug like Haldol; but that only works as long as the person is virtually
paralyzed and confined ? and forced drugging invariably breeds more
resentment.
"Instead of offering the promise of reducing violence, all psychiatric drugs
carry the potential risk of driving the individual into violent madness. For
example, both the newer antidepressants such as Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft and
Celexa, and the antipsychotic drugs such as Risperdal and Zyprexa, cause a
disorder caused akathisia ? a terrible inner sensation of agitation
accompanied by a compulsion to move about. Akathisia is known to drive
people to suicide and to aggression."
He said he's been writing for more than 15 years about the capacity for
psychiatric drugs to cause mayhem, murder and suicide, but it wasn't until
2005 when the FDA issued a warning that such drugs produce "anxiety,
agitation, panic attacks ?"
He said in the Columbine case, Harris "looks the most like Cho. Both were
very emotionally disturbed in an extremely violent fashion for a prolonged
period of time."
Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of Virginia Tech's English department, said Cho's
writings were so disturbing he was referred to the school's counselors.
"Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if
it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things
or just how real it might be," she said. "But we're all alert to not ignore
things like this."
In a statement posted on the TeenScreen opposition site, Sidney Taurel of
Eli Lilly noted that it would be "unreasonable" to expect "that there is
such a thing as a risk-free drug."
Another website concerning the psychiatric drugs, called RitalinDeath, also
documents some of these cases, as well as additional ones.
Dr. John Breeding concluded in a report shortly after Columbine that there
were about five million school children now being given psychiatric drugs,
and the number had been doubling every 10 years since the 1970s.
"This has got to be a cause for major alarm in all adults," he said. "The
bottom line is that we are giving stronger and stronger psychiatric drugs to
more and more children. Many of our children are taking more than one of
these drugs at a time, and many of these drugs were never even tested and
approved for children."
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55310
Remember the
> University of Texas bell tower shooting? There were no medications
> involved prior to that incident--just one deranged, mentally ill
> student. I think someone is drawing the wrong conclusions.
Simply wrong.
Whitman was prescribed Dexedrine
Whitman had abused the drugs.
>
> Therefore, Frank's interpretation is just as good as that of the
> journalist--and twice as entertaining.
You are here to be entertained?
Frank
None of the cases you cited backed up the original report, in fact "had
been" most likely would be construed as "not on it now"
Every one of those people you cited in this post drank water within a
few hours of doing the murders and everyone or most intelligent people
know that water is poisonous if drunk to excess.
Has anyone done any studies at all on this? Nope. There are numerous
reports of death by overdose of water, and who is to say that the poison
water didn't create delusions which caused them to go off the deep end
like you did in this post. Please cut back on your water intake.
Frank
> Diversion Alert!
>
> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote:
>
> [ ]
Have you no original thought?
You are also a spammer, spammers are scum. I snipped your spamming
headers but that does not lessen your intent.
Jan Drew
"Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message news:fplo6r$ljg$1...@aioe.org...
Jan Drew
"Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message news:fplobc$lmr$1...@aioe.org...
>
> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:tAavj.3174$Mh2...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> Diversion Alert!
>>
>> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote:
>>
>> [ ]
>
> Have you no original thought?
Yes, I have plenty, they have all been posted over and over.
>
> You are also a spammer, spammers are scum. I snipped your spamming
> headers but that does not lessen your intent.
>
>
No need to attack me. Are you on drugs?
marcia
> "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f2b995d7-3ae2-43de...@h25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Feb 21, 3:28 am, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote:
> >> > ROFL!
>
> >> Sad that.
>
> > Sad, the media's interpretation and reporting of the use of psych meds
> > relative to the incident. For one thing, the shooter had gone OFF his
> > meds, which suggests that perhaps had he kept taking them the shooting
> > might never have occurred. And for another thing, there is no evidence
> > to suggest psych meds are the cause of violence.
>
> Wrong again
>
> Among the specifically school-related attacks the site documents are:
>
> In 1988, 31-year-old Laurie Dann, who had been taking Anafranil and Lithium,
> walked into a second-grade classroom in Winnetka, Ill., and began shooting.
> One child was killed and six wounded.
"had been taking" implies she had gone OFF her meds and may have been
actively psychotic because her mood wasn't being controlled by the
Lithium.
>
> Later that same year, 19-year-old James Wilson went on a shooting rampage at
> the Greenwood, S.C., Elementary School and killed two 8-year-old girls and
> wounded seven others. He'd been on Xanax, Valium and five other drugs.
Again, "had been" implies he was no longer taking the drugs. Xanax and
Valium are both benzodiazapines, minor sedatives with known to
disinhibit people at high doses. I doubt a doctor would have
prescribed this combination; therefore, it suggests the shooter may
have abusing drugs off prescription.
>
> Kip Kinkel, a 15-year-old of Springfield, Ore., in 1998 murdered his parents
> and proceeded to his high school where he went on a rampage killing two
> students and wounding 22 others. Kinkel had been prescribed both Prozac and
> Ritalin.
"Had been prescribed" does not mean he was taking the meds. Careful
choice of words designed to imply meds were the cause without
substantiation. Bias showing.
>
> Patrick Purdy, 25, in 1989 opened fire on a school yard filled with children
> in Stockton, Calif. Five kids were killed and 30 wounded. He been treated
> with Thorazine and Amitriptyline.
If he were still taking his thorazine, I can almost guarantee he
wouldn't have had the energy to shoot someone. Suggests a
schizophrenic (who the med is prescribed to) off medication.
>
> Steve Lieth of Chelsea, Mich., in 1993 walked into a school meeting and shot
> and killed the school superintendent, wounding two others, while on Prozac.
Does not prove Prozac was the cause of his behavior.
>
> 10-year-old Tommy Becton in 1996 grabbed his 3-year-old niece as a shield
> and aimed a shotgun at a sheriff's deputy who accompanied a truant officer
> to his Florida home. He'd been put on Prozac.
Was he taking it? Had it had time to take effect? Again, does not
prove Prozac was the cause of his behavior.
>
> Michael Carneal, 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting
> in Heath High in West Paducah, Ky. Three died and one was paralyzed. Carneal
> reportedly was on Ritalin.
"Reportedly." Unsubstantiated.
>
> In 1998, 11-year-old Andrew Golden and 14-year-old Mitchell Johnson
> apparently faked a fire alarm at Westside Middle School in Jonesboro, Ark.,
> and shot at students as they left the building. Four students and a teacher
> were killed. The boys were believed to be on Ritalin.
"believed to be." Again, unsubstantiated.
>
> In 1999, Shawn Cooper, 15, of Notus, Idaho, took a shotgun to school and
> injured one student. He had been taking Ritalin.
"Had been taking." Again, suggests he was off medication.
>
> April 20, 1999, Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, shot and killed 12
> classmates and a teacher and wounded 24 others. Harris had been taking
> Luvox.
"had been taking."
> Todd Smith walked into as high school in Taber, Alberta, Canada in 1999 with
> a shotgun and killed one and injured a second student. He has been given a
> drug after a five-minute phone consultation with a psychiatrist.
What drug? Was he taking it?
>
> Steven Abrams drove his car into a preschool playground in 1999 in Costa
> Mesa., Calif., killing two. He was on probation with a requirement to take
> Lithium.
Doesn't mean he was taking it. People are known to go off their meds
all the time, especially ones with side-effects as unpleasant as
Lithium's.
>
> In 2000, T.J. Solomon, 15, opened fire at Heritage High School in Conyers,
> Ga., while on a mix of antidepressants. Six were wounded.
Doesn't prove the antidepressants were the cause.
>
> The same year Seth Trickey of Gibson, Okla., 13, was on a variety of
> prescriptions when he opened fire on his middle-school class, injuring five.
"on a variety of prescriptions" could mean anything. Doesn't say they
were psych drugs.
>
> Elizabeth Bush, 14, was on Prozac. She shot and wounded another student at
> Bishop Neumann High in Williamsport, Pa.
Doesn't prove Prozac was the cause.
>
> Jason Hoffman, 18, in 2001 was on Effexor and Celexa, both antidepressants,
> when he wounded two teachers at California's Granite Hills High School.
Doesn't prove Effexor and Celexa were the cause.
>
> In Wahluke, Wash., Cory Baadsgaard, 16, took a rifle to his high schooland
> held 23 classmates hostage in 2001. He has been taking Paxil and Effexor.
Doesn't prove Paxil and Effexor were the cause.
>
> In Tokyo in 2001, Mamoru Takuma, 37, went into a second-grade classroom and
> started stabbing students. He killed eight. He had taken 10 times his normal
> dosage of an antidepressant.
Abuse of drug.
> Duane Morrison, 53, shot and killed a girl at Platte Canyon High School in
> Colorado in 2006. Antidepressants later were found in his vehicle.
Doesn't prove he was taking them, or that they were the cause of the
violence.
>
> In 2005, 16-year-old Native American Jeff Weise on the Red Lake Indian
> Reservation in Minnesota was under the influence of the antidepressant
> Prozac when he shot and killed nine people and wounding five before
> committing suicide.
"Under the influence" demonstrates extreme bias against psych meds
without supporting evidence that Prozac "influences" anyone to do
anything.
> Another case involving a school-age youth ? although not at a school ?
> happened in 1986, when 14-year-old Rod Mathews of Canton, Mass., beat a
> classmate to death with a baseball bat while on Ritalin.
Doesn't prove Ritalin was the cause of the violence.
>
> And just a few among the dozens of incidents cited, but not apparently
> related to schools:
>
> William Cruse in 1987 was charged with killing six people in Palm Bay, Fla.,
> after taking psychiatric drugs for "several years."
Doesn't suggest he was still taking them.
>
> The same year, Bartley James Dobben killed his two young sons by throwing
> them into a 1,300-degree foundry ladle. He been on a "regimen" of
> psychiatric drugs.
"Had been on..."
>
> Joseph T. WesBecker, 47, just a month after he began taking Prozac, shot 20
> workers at Standard Gravure Corp. in Louisville, Ky., killing nine. Eli
> Lilly, which makes Prozac, later settled a lawsuit brought by survivors.
It's often cheaper to settle than to fight. Doesn't mean an admission
of guilt so much as an acknowledgment that the media has created a
serious anti-med bias in the general population.
Doesn't prove Prozac was the cause of the violence.
>
> In 1991, 61-year-old Barbara Mortenson, on Prozac for two weeks,
> "cannibalized her 87-year-old mother ?"
Two weeks is not long enough for the med to take effect--generally
takes 4-6 weeks. Suggests she was under-treated, not over-treated.
>
> In 1992, Lynnwood Drake III, shot and killed six in San Luis Obispo and
> Morro Bay. Prozac and Valium were found in his system.
Doesn't prove Prozac and Valium was the cause of the violence.
>
> Sixteen-year-old Victor Brancaccio attacked and killed an 81-year-old woman,
> covered her corpse with red spray-paint. He was two months into a Zoloft
> regimen.
Doesn't prove Zoloft was the cause of the violence.
>
> While on four medications including Prozac, Dr. Debora Green in 1995 set her
> Prairie Village, Mo., home on fire, killing her children, ages 6 and 13.
Doesn't prove Prozac was the cause of the violence.
>
> Kurt Danysh, 18, shot and killed his father in 1996, 17 days after his first
> dose of Prozac. "I didn't realize I did it until after it was done. ? This
> might sound weird, but it felt like I had no control of what I was doing,
> like I was left there just holding a gun."
Not on Prozac long enough to have a therapeutic effect.
>
<snip>
What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
NOT on psychiatric medications.
Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.
marcia
> On Feb 21, 12:59 pm, marcia <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 21, 3:28 am, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > > "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote:
> > > > ROFL!
>
> > > Sad that.
>
> > Sad, the media's interpretation and reporting of the use of psych meds
> > relative to the incident. For one thing, the shooter had gone OFF his
> > meds, which suggests that perhaps had he kept taking them the shooting
> > might never have occurred. And for another thing, there is no evidence
> > to suggest psych meds are the cause of violence. Remember the
> > University of Texas bell tower shooting? There were no medications
> > involved prior to that incident--just one deranged, mentally ill
> > student. I think someone is drawing the wrong conclusions.
>
> Well said. This is a fact that the anti-medders ignore.
Thanks, Mark. :) There is little logic in their reasoning.
Coleah
>
> - Show quoted text -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What fascinates me in this debate is that most of the
people doing such horrendous crimes had some prior
'history' of unstable mental disorder; which had gotten
the attention of concerned (loved ones, friends, family ???)
that prompted putting them on medication in the first place.
Blame the medication?
Mark Probert
Examine the laws of the states where these shootings happened. They
are the ones where buying a gun is easy, and their is a "gun
culture".
D. C. Sessions
> What fascinates me in this debate is that most of the
> people doing such horrendous crimes had some prior
> 'history' of unstable mental disorder; which had gotten
> the attention of concerned (loved ones, friends, family ???)
> that prompted putting them on medication in the first place.
>
> Blame the medication?
It's even worse than people think! The eeeevil effects
go backwards in time to corrupt their minds even before
they're exposed to the horrible stuff!
--
| The most important exclamation in science isn't "Eureka!" |
| The most important exclamation is "What the BLEEP?" |
+---------- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> ----------+
D. C. Sessions
> Examine the laws of the states where these shootings happened. They
> are the ones where buying a gun is easy, and their is a "gun
> culture".
Illinois?
Coleah
>
> - Show quoted text -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I doubt that making it harder to buy a gun would deter those kinds of
shootings, unless there was a tight method of screening the character
of gun buyers for mental stability, adherence to taking their
medications and their likelihood of doing evil to others. That would
mess with privacy issues.
WWWSC #2
>In message <519cf637-9f9d-4490...@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert wrote:
>
>> Examine the laws of the states where these shootings happened. They
>> are the ones where buying a gun is easy, and their is a "gun
>> culture".
>
>Illinois?
Seriously. Then again Mark is against gun ownership - but it's ok if
he does. Animal Farm rules - everyone is equal, but some people are
more equal than others.
--
Proud member WWWSC #2
Formerly known as Ann
marcia
> In message <3adb23d2-937d-4ec5-a904-906c9b7e9...@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, Coleah wrote:
>
> > What fascinates me in this debate is that most of the
> > people doing such horrendous crimes had some prior
> > 'history' of unstable mental disorder; which had gotten
> > the attention of concerned (loved ones, friends, family ???)
> > that prompted putting them on medication in the first place.
>
> > Blame the medication?
>
> It's even worse than people think! The eeeevil effects
> go backwards in time to corrupt their minds even before
> they're exposed to the horrible stuff!
Not to mention the fact that *some* people believe they can be
sickened by *other people's* use of antidepressants.
J. Clarke
Not just Illinois. New York, California, Germany, Finland,
Netherlands . . .
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
D. C. Sessions
Funny 'bout that, isn't it?
Me? Haven't put any lead down range since I was a teen,
but half of the gang I work with are range safety officers
and take lunch at the firing range at least every few weeks.
Then there's the guy who was murdered Friday night because
he had a first date with a nutcase's ex-wife -- stabbed
something like 50 times. Police were nearby and managed
to keep her from ending up the same way. I patrol with
someone who's likely to end up prosecuting that one.
Jan Drew
> On Feb 22, 12:47 am, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:f2b995d7-3ae2-43de...@h25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Feb 21, 3:28 am, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote:
>> >> > ROFL!
>>
>> >> Sad that.
>>
>> > Sad, the media's interpretation and reporting of the use of psych meds
>> > relative to the incident. For one thing, the shooter had gone OFF his
>> > meds, which suggests that perhaps had he kept taking them the shooting
>> > might never have occurred. And for another thing, there is no evidence
>> > to suggest psych meds are the cause of violence.
>>
>> Wrong again
>>
>> Among the specifically school-related attacks the site documents are:
>>
>> In 1988, 31-year-old Laurie Dann, who had been taking Anafranil and
>> Lithium,
>> walked into a second-grade classroom in Winnetka, Ill., and began
>> shooting.
>> One child was killed and six wounded.
>
> "had been taking" implies she had gone OFF her meds and may have been
> actively psychotic because her mood wasn't being controlled by the
> Lithium.
Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.
>
>>
>> Later that same year, 19-year-old James Wilson went on a shooting rampage
>> at
>> the Greenwood, S.C., Elementary School and killed two 8-year-old girls
>> and
>> wounded seven others. He'd been on Xanax, Valium and five other drugs.
>
> Again, "had been" implies he was no longer taking the drugs. Xanax and
> Valium are both benzodiazapines, minor sedatives with known to
> disinhibit people at high doses. I doubt a doctor would have
> prescribed this combination; therefore, it suggests the shooter may
> have abusing drugs off prescription.
You doubt the facts.
>
>>
>> Kip Kinkel, a 15-year-old of Springfield, Ore., in 1998 murdered his
>> parents
>> and proceeded to his high school where he went on a rampage killing two
>> students and wounding 22 others. Kinkel had been prescribed both Prozac
>> and
>> Ritalin.
>
> "Had been prescribed" does not mean he was taking the meds. Careful
> choice of words designed to imply meds were the cause without
> substantiation. Bias showing.
LOL! Who is bias, Marcia?
>
>>
>> Patrick Purdy, 25, in 1989 opened fire on a school yard filled with
>> children
>> in Stockton, Calif. Five kids were killed and 30 wounded. He been treated
>> with Thorazine and Amitriptyline.
>
> If he were still taking his thorazine, I can almost guarantee he
> wouldn't have had the energy to shoot someone. Suggests a
> schizophrenic (who the med is prescribed to) off medication.
Suggest...suggest.
>
>>
>> Steve Lieth of Chelsea, Mich., in 1993 walked into a school meeting and
>> shot
>> and killed the school superintendent, wounding two others, while on
>> Prozac.
>
> Does not prove Prozac was the cause of his behavior.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if every single shooter in
recent
memory was treated with psych meds, and if those same psych meds are well
known to cause violent thoughts and suicidal behavior, it's fairly obvious
that the chemicals are the most likely cause of the behavioral problems.
It's also worth noting that before children were prescribed such medications
in America, school shootings were virtually unheard of. It was only after
psychiatric medicine started targeting young people with mind-altering
medications that we witnessed this explosion in violence.
Pharmaceutical-induced violence
Until we stop medication young people with mind-altering psychotropic drugs,
we will simply not see an end to this pharmaceutical-induced violence. Even
if you somehow manage to take away all the guns, similar atrocities can be
carried out with machetes, swords, knives or explosives. The problem here is
not simply the weapon, but rather the mind behind the trigger. When minds
are disturbed through psychiatric medications and young men are trapped in a
chemically-induced state of sub-consciousness with no connection to reality,
outbursts of mindless violence are exactly what you're going to get.
>
>>
>> 10-year-old Tommy Becton in 1996 grabbed his 3-year-old niece as a shield
>> and aimed a shotgun at a sheriff's deputy who accompanied a truant
>> officer
>> to his Florida home. He'd been put on Prozac.
>
> Was he taking it? Had it had time to take effect? Again, does not
> prove Prozac was the cause of his behavior.
Why are you defending Prozac and all other meds mentioned here?
>
>>
>> Michael Carneal, 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer
>> meeting
>> in Heath High in West Paducah, Ky. Three died and one was paralyzed.
>> Carneal
>> reportedly was on Ritalin.
>
> "Reportedly." Unsubstantiated.
http://www.thesaveproject.com/
>>
>> In 1998, 11-year-old Andrew Golden and 14-year-old Mitchell Johnson
>> apparently faked a fire alarm at Westside Middle School in Jonesboro,
>> Ark.,
>> and shot at students as they left the building. Four students and a
>> teacher
>> were killed. The boys were believed to be on Ritalin.
>
> "believed to be." Again, unsubstantiated.
http://www.thesaveproject.com/
>
>>
>> In 1999, Shawn Cooper, 15, of Notus, Idaho, took a shotgun to school and
>> injured one student. He had been taking Ritalin.
>
> "Had been taking." Again, suggests he was off medication.
Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.
>
>>
>> April 20, 1999, Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, shot and killed
>> 12
>> classmates and a teacher and wounded 24 others. Harris had been taking
>> Luvox.
>
> "had been taking."
Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.
>
>> Todd Smith walked into as high school in Taber, Alberta, Canada in 1999
>> with
>> a shotgun and killed one and injured a second student. He has been given
>> a
>> drug after a five-minute phone consultation with a psychiatrist.
>
> What drug? Was he taking it?
Dexadrine. Very similar to Ritalin with the same type of side effects
occasionally seen.
The only major difference is that Dexadrine can stay in the blood longer
than Ritalin reducing the frequency of the dose.
>
>>
>> Steven Abrams drove his car into a preschool playground in 1999 in Costa
>> Mesa., Calif., killing two. He was on probation with a requirement to
>> take
>> Lithium.
>
> Doesn't mean he was taking it. People are known to go off their meds
> all the time, especially ones with side-effects as unpleasant as
> Lithium's.
Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.
>
>>
>> In 2000, T.J. Solomon, 15, opened fire at Heritage High School in
>> Conyers,
>> Ga., while on a mix of antidepressants. Six were wounded.
>
> Doesn't prove the antidepressants were the cause.
The prosecutor said authorities found the sawed-off barrel and scope from a
.22 rifle hidden in Solomon's bedroom.
Read said the search of Solomon's home turned up three pages of bomb
instructions printed from the Internet along with a note that alludes to the
April 20 school shooting at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado.
Solomon's note, which was found under his bed, mentioned his "brothers and
sisters related to the Trench Coat Mafia."
The note also said Solomon had planned the shootings for years but finally
got angry enough to do it.
>>
>> The same year Seth Trickey of Gibson, Okla., 13, was on a variety of
>> prescriptions when he opened fire on his middle-school class, injuring
>> five.
>
> "on a variety of prescriptions" could mean anything. Doesn't say they
> were psych drugs.>
Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."
>>
>> Elizabeth Bush, 14, was on Prozac. She shot and wounded another student
>> at
>> Bishop Neumann High in Williamsport, Pa.
>
> Doesn't prove Prozac was the cause.
Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."
>
>>
>> Jason Hoffman, 18, in 2001 was on Effexor and Celexa, both
>> antidepressants,
>> when he wounded two teachers at California's Granite Hills High School.
>
> Doesn't prove Effexor and Celexa were the cause.
Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."
>
>>
>> In Wahluke, Wash., Cory Baadsgaard, 16, took a rifle to his high
>> schooland
>> held 23 classmates hostage in 2001. He has been taking Paxil and Effexor.
>
> Doesn't prove Paxil and Effexor were the cause.
Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."
>>
>> In Tokyo in 2001, Mamoru Takuma, 37, went into a second-grade classroom
>> and
>> started stabbing students. He killed eight. He had taken 10 times his
>> normal
>> dosage of an antidepressant.
>
> Abuse of drug.
Latest figures showing that antidepressants have become the most commonly
prescribed drugs in the United States
>
>> Duane Morrison, 53, shot and killed a girl at Platte Canyon High School
>> in
>> Colorado in 2006. Antidepressants later were found in his vehicle.
>
> Doesn't prove he was taking them, or that they were the cause of the
> violence.
Yeah, he must have had them to give to his dog............................
>
>>
>> In 2005, 16-year-old Native American Jeff Weise on the Red Lake Indian
>> Reservation in Minnesota was under the influence of the antidepressant
>> Prozac when he shot and killed nine people and wounding five before
>> committing suicide.
>
> "Under the influence" demonstrates extreme bias against psych meds
> without supporting evidence that Prozac "influences" anyone to do
> anything.
Prozac is the antidepressant made by Eli Lilly. It is the most profitable
drug in history. The side effects of Prozac include that it makes people
violent. Many of the most sensational killing sprees have been committed by
drug-crazed people who were made that way by Prozac. Click here for a page
with many links to material about Prozac. You can even read about how Lilly
knew that Prozac would cause the side effect of violence, but hid that
truth.
Withdrawal from Prozac is harder than withdrawing from heroin! The
withdrawal symptoms include trembling and tendencies to either suicide or
violence to others.
Here is what Eli Lilly admits to in its official explanation of Prozac side
effects:
Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors--There have been reports of serious, sometimes
fatal, reactions (including hyperthermia, rigidity, myoclonus, with
possible rapid fluctuations of vital signs, and mental status changes that
include extreme agitation progressing to delirium and coma) in patients
receiving fluoxetine in combination with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor
(MAOI), and in patients who have recently discontinued fluoxetine and are
then started on an MAOI. Some cases presented with features resembling
neuroleptic malignant syndrome. Therefore, Prozac should not be used in
combination with an MAOI, or within a minimum of 14 days of discontinuing
therapy with an MAOI. Since fluoxetine and its major metabolite have very
long elimination half-lives, at least 5 weeks (perhaps longer, especially if
fluoxetine has been prescribed chronically and/or at higher doses (See
Accumulation and Slow Elimination Under ACTIONS/CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY))
should be allowed after stopping Prozac before starting an MAOI.
Prozac side effects include murder! Prozac withdrawal symptoms include a
desire to commit violence. Eli Lilly Prozac is soon to be replaced the same
drug with a different name. Prozac antidepressant winds up CAUSING
depression.
The initial effect of Prozac seems to be more calm. But, this is the symptom
of becoming more like a vegetable. After a period of time on this
antidepressant, the Prozac side effects are much more prominent that the
intended main effect. This is the point where it is virtually impossible to
withdraw from use of the drug, and the point where the person is more and
more willing to commit violence, including murder, on others.
Eli Lilly is one of the most evil drug companies on the planet. They knew,
many years ago, about the side effects of Prozac. They deliberately hid the
truth for the sole purpose of making billions of dollars of profit on this
harmful drug.
<snip more denial and defending of these drugs from Marica>
>
Frank
>
> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message
> news:fplo6r$ljg$1...@aioe.org...
>>
>>
>> "had been" most likely would be construed as "not on it now"
>>
>> Every one of those people you cited in this post drank water within a
>> few hours of doing the murders and everyone or most intelligent
>> people know that water is poisonous if drunk to excess.
>>
>> Has anyone done any studies at all on this? Nope. There are numerous
>> reports of death by overdose of water, and who is to say that the
>> poison water didn't create delusions which caused them to go off the
>> deep end like you did in this post. Please cut back on your water
>> intake.
>>
> First it's corn, now it is water.what completely nonsense.
I left your lengthy repost in originally so you could go back and check
the facts, you didn't, nor did you address my first line.
My "nonsense" was a shortened version of the BS that you posted. Water
can be deadly and that is a fact. However what you posted was mostly
conjecture, based on HS.
Frank
Snipped the rest as it was pointless to read your reply any further than
this. You missed her points, period. You did not post any facts, you
posted baseless conclusions constructed via your bias'.
Have you any honesty or sincerity?
Would you suggest that people on drugs or withdrawing from same should
never drive a vehicle since there has been far more accidents with
multiple killings by vehicles then was ever done by guns? Should they
even be allowed to own a vehicle?
Frank
>
> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message
> news:fplobc$lmr$1...@aioe.org...
>>
>> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:tAavj.3174$Mh2...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>> Diversion Alert!
>>>
>>> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote:
>>>
>>> [ ]
>>
>> Have you no original thought?
>
> Yes, I have plenty, they have all been posted over and over.
I've seen plagarizing, pasting, and little of substance. :(
>>
>> You are also a spammer, spammers are scum. I snipped your spamming
>> headers but that does not lessen your intent.
> No need to attack me. Are you on drugs?
Attack? do you feel you should be allowed to do whatsoever your heart
desires without following or respecting normal conventions and protocol?
D. C. Sessions
> Have you any honesty or sincerity?
Rhetorical question, right?
D. C. Sessions
> Attack? do you feel you should be allowed to do whatsoever your heart
> desires without following or respecting normal conventions and protocol?
Another rhetorical question?
marcia
> "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote in message
>
that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.
What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
NOT on psychiatric medications.
Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.
You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
come into play. Think about it.
WWWSC #2
>In message <h4dur3too03hrb2q5...@4ax.com>, WWWSC #2 wrote:
>> "D. C. Sessions" <d...@lumbercartel.com> expounded:
>>>In message <519cf637-9f9d-4490...@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert wrote:
>>>
>>>> Examine the laws of the states where these shootings happened. They
>>>> are the ones where buying a gun is easy, and their is a "gun
>>>> culture".
>>>
>>>Illinois?
>>
>> Seriously. Then again Mark is against gun ownership - but it's ok if
>> he does. Animal Farm rules - everyone is equal, but some people are
>> more equal than others.
>
>Funny 'bout that, isn't it?
Not really, gun grabbers make me angry. Instead of dealing with the
problem of criminals having guns, they make us law-abiding gun owners
jump through more hoops. But they, themselves, get to keep theirs.
Like I said, Animal Farm rules.
>
>Me? Haven't put any lead down range since I was a teen,
>but half of the gang I work with are range safety officers
>and take lunch at the firing range at least every few weeks.
I'm a member of the Second Amendment Sisters and practice regularly at
a local range. And yes, I do carry a gun when I think it might be
necessary. Here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts it's pretty
dicey for a lawful gun owner if they ever actually have to use their
gun, the bad guy will get sympathy (especially if they die in the
process that they initiated when they attacked, but that's besides the
point - they had a bad childhood or somesuch bullshit) and the person
who defended themselves will lose everything they own in the legal
nightmare that will ensue, and most likely spend time in jail. But
I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.
>
>Then there's the guy who was murdered Friday night because
>he had a first date with a nutcase's ex-wife -- stabbed
>something like 50 times. Police were nearby and managed
>to keep her from ending up the same way. I patrol with
>someone who's likely to end up prosecuting that one.
Well, now, we need to follow Britain's example and ban all sharp
knives, too! <<<eyeroll>>>
Mark Probert
> On Feb 23, 12:20 am, ""marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote in message
The anti-medders fail to recognize this fact.
If you want some interesting insight into the problem of school
shooting, vist the United StatesSecret Service website and look for
the National Threat Assessment Center link. They studied school
schootings after Columbine as the direction of Bill Clinton. NTAC
knows what it is doing. The anti-medders do not have a clue that they
do not have a clue.
Mark Probert
It may have prevented Virginia Tech.
unless there was a tight method of screening the character
> of gun buyers for mental stability, adherence to taking their
> medications and their likelihood of doing evil to others. That would
> mess with privacy issues
But living people would appreciate it.
marcia
I'll check it out. Thanks, Mark!
Frank
"D. C. Sessions" <d...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:ftk595-...@news.lumbercartel.com...
> In message <fpoghd$q5u$1...@aioe.org>, Frank wrote:
>
>> Have you any honesty or sincerity?
>
> Rhetorical question, right?
>
Had to give her a chance, but she does seem to ignore and or twist
reality.
Jan Drew
I choose the face the facts.
You choose to defend psych meds, make excuses, and cannot see the truth.
http://www.naturalnews.com/z022656.html
NaturalNews.com printable article
Originally published February 17 2008
Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to Shooting Rampage
by Mike Adams
(NaturalNews) It comes as no surprise to anyone who's been following school
shootings all the way back to the Colombine High massacre in Colorado: Every
young, male shooter that has gone on a killing spree in the United States
also has a history of treatment with psychotropic drugs -- typically SSRI
antidepressants. These shootings have three things in common: 1) The
shooters are young males. 2) The shooters exhibit a mind-numbed disconnect
with reality. 3) The shooters have a history of taking psychiatric
medications.
This latest shooting by 27-year-old Stephen Kazmierczak shares the same
three factors. Stephen was considered a "normal, undistressed person,"
according to press reports. He was considered "an outstanding student" and
even received a Dean's Award for outstanding work in sociology. So what
happened to Stephen's brain that caused him to snap and open fire on
students in a college classroom?
Psych meds make good people do bad things
Psychiatric medications, of course, are well known to cause extremely
violent thoughts and behavior in young males. This is actually acknowledged
by the FDA and is found in the black-box warnings printed on the packaging
for such drugs. In Europe, the prescribing of many such drugs to children
and teens is actually illegal. But in the United States, where psychiatric
medications have become the "new medicine" for American youth, nobody seems
to pay attention to the simple fact that every school shooting we've seen in
the last decade has been committed by a young male with a history of
treatment with psychiatric medications.
The mainstream media, of course, is trying to spin the story by claiming
Stephen snapped because he stopped taking his medications. MSM headlines
proclaim, "Illinois Shooter Stopped Taking His Medications." What these
headlines fail to communicate is the fact that psychiatric drugs cause
long-term disruptions in the brain which lead to a strong dissociation with
reality. These young, male shooters hardly even know they're in the real
world anymore. They no longer see their fellow classmates as human beings,
but rather as lifeless objects to be used for target practice. For those
people taking psychiatric medications, there's even a strong dissociation
with one's own life, as evidenced by the repeated willingness of these
shooters to ultimately turn their guns on themselves.
These are precisely the kinds of things acted out by people who take psych
medications: Disconnection with reality, disconnection with self, and
disconnection with others. Modern psychiatric medicine is in the business of
taking people who feel depressed and chemically lobotomizing their brains so
they feel nothing. Once they feel nothing, there's nothing stopping them
from unloading on fellow human beings with firearms. They no longer feel
empathy or compassion. Nothing matters anymore. This is strongly
characteristic of the well-documented side effects of psychiatric
medications.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Illinois shooter's history of taking
psychiatric medications was the primary cause of his violent behavior. It
doesn't take a genius to figure out that if every single shooter in recent
memory was treated with psych meds, and if those same psych meds are well
known to cause violent thoughts and suicidal behavior, it's fairly obvious
that the chemicals are the most likely cause of the behavioral problems.
It's also worth noting that before children were prescribed such medications
in America, school shootings were virtually unheard of. It was only after
psychiatric medicine started targeting young people with mind-altering
medications that we witnessed this explosion in violence.
Pharmaceutical-induced violence
Until we stop medication young people with mind-altering psychotropic drugs,
we will simply not see an end to this pharmaceutical-induced violence. Even
if you somehow manage to take away all the guns, similar atrocities can be
carried out with machetes, swords, knives or explosives. The problem here is
not simply the weapon, but rather the mind behind the trigger. When minds
are disturbed through psychiatric medications and young men are trapped in a
chemically-induced state of sub-consciousness with no connection to reality,
outbursts of mindless violence are exactly what you're going to get.
In fact, I publicly predicted this school shooting in a December 7, 2007
article about the mall shooter in Omaha, where I said:
There will be more. I hate to be accurate about this grisly prediction,
because I grieve for the families of those lost to pharmaceutically-induced
violence, but the truth is that until we stop drugging our children with
psychotropic drugs, the shootings are not going to stop.
And as sad as this tragedy is for all those affected by this
medication-induced violence, the truly sad part is that America still hasn't
learned this lesson. If you drug the children with chemicals that cause
violence, you're going to see more shootings. It's as simple as that. And if
you take away the guns, you'll see bombs, knives or machetes used in these
attacks. When disturbed young boys are doped up on psychotropic drugs that
promote violence -- and they're drugged by the hundreds of thousands -- it's
like playing a national game of Russian roulette (with apologies to Russia).
Sooner or later, another kid whose mind has been altered by Ritalin, Prozac
or some other drug is going to walk into yet another school or mall and
start killing people. This kind of behavior is a direct product of
chemical-based psychiatric "treatment."
Let me now continue that prediction by stating that the Illinois shooting
won't be the last one, either. As long as the psychiatric industry -- which
is now run by Big Pharma -- is allowed to run amok and "play doctor" with
the chemicals in children's brains, we're going to continue to see school
shootings, bombings, stabbings and other outbursts of violence. While
ignorant psych docs will say the population needs more drugs, and while
silly voters will call for bans on guns, nothing will actually prevent this
kind of violence in America until we stop drugging our children with
mind-altering drugs and stop exposing them to extremely violent video games
and television shows. In fact, I believe it is the combination of violent TV
programming and mind-altering psych meds that ultimately leads to the kind
of violence that took place in Illinois.
Modern psychiatry kills
In Illinois, Omaha, Colombine, Virginia Tech and other places, the real
murderers are not simply the young men who pulled the triggers but rather
the criminal minds running modern psychiatry -- an industry that preys upon
young men and boys, enslaving them in a regimen of mind-altering chemicals
that create disturbed behaviors, all while calling it "treatment."
While the MSM will, of course, sensationalize this story and blame the lone
shooter, the real culprits behind this latest massacre are the psychiatric
doctors and drug companies who continue to push these dangerous,
mind-altering drugs onto young men, knowing full well that a certain
percentage of them will exhibit extremely violent behavior. Of course, in
order to protect its revenues and power over people, modern psychiatry has
selectively decided to deny the existence of any link between mind-altering
drugs and mindless violence, insisting that these young men actually need
more chemical treatment, not less. The only reason Stephen Kazmierczak went
on a shooting spree, if you ask the psychiatrists, is because he didn't have
enough synthetic chemicals in his brain! America needs more drugs, didn't
you know?
Of course, that reasoning is absurd from the outset. What Stephen needed was
mental clarity, not chemical obfuscation. Do mind-altering drugs provide
mental clarity? Of course not. They suppress clarity, causing mental
confusion and dissociation. In some people, they can cause extremely violent
outbursts of behavior. Mental clarity (and balanced behavior) is only
achieved through a chemical-free diet and lifestyle... one that's based on
fresh produce, plant-based diets, superfoods and natural, chemical-free
products. What Stephen needed, in summary, was green living. Had he been on
a plant-based diet, he never would have gone on that shooting rampage.
Natural health consumers are far more mentally balanced
Tet me finish this story with yet another prediction: You will never see a
shooting rampage conducted by a raw foods advocate who practices green
living, who eats no animal products, who uses no drugs and who takes no
pharmaceuticals. Those people are the most emotionally balanced,
compassionate and healthy individuals you'll ever find. The chances of a
green living person ever "snapping" and going on a shooting rampage are
zero. Search all the news archives you want: You'll never find a single case
of someone on a plant-based diet with no chemicals in their bodies going off
and killing people.
It's only people who eat animal products and who take mind-altering
medications that end up committing these violent acts.
Too bad most of the journalists who work for the mainstream media are too
doped up themselves to notice these fairly obvious correlations. Most of
those folks are on psych meds, too, and you see it in their writing, which
exhibits an astounding disconnect with reality. The mass medication of
people in America has become so "normal" that journalists no longer think
medications could possibly have any role in aberrant behavior. And so we're
left with the blind reporting to the blind about events caused by the blind.
(In this case, "blind" meaning a lack of awareness / consciousness.)
It's a sad, sad state of affairs, and when future historians look back on
why America failed as a nation, they will probably shake their heads in
disbelief (or laugh their heads off) over the mass medication of an entire
population. Seriously, our present-day practices of medicating everybody
will someday seem just as stupid as doctors' use of radiation in the early
20th century to give people "more energy." It's true: Doctors often
prescribed irradiated pills, irradiated water and other radioactive
substances to their patients, claiming they would give them energy. Today,
we know the radiation was poisonous and the practice was stupid, but one
thing I've noticed about the history of medicine is that doctors always
manage to find a new scam that keeps them rich while poisoning the people. A
hundred years ago, it was radiation pills. Today, it's depression pills.
Same scam, different era. Same stupid doctors. Same gullible population.
There truly is nothing new under the sun.
How Big Pharma recruits mindless soldiers for the Pentagon
Oh, and by the way, on the conspiracy side of things, did you ever wonder
why it's primarily young boys who are drugged with violence-inducing
chemicals? Notice that violent young men also make highly effective soldiers
who can mindlessly commit violent atrocities against prisoners in secret
U.S. military bases like, say, Gitmo. The more the U.S. government can drug
young men and cause them to feel nothing, the more easily they can sign them
up to go murder innocents in whatever country is being targeted next by the
imperialist Bush was machine.
Pharmaceuticals and war go hand in hand, and the more minds that can be
nullified by pharmaceuticals, the more mindless bodies are made available
for the Pentagon's war machine. And that, of course, is exactly what makes a
good soldier these days: A mindless body that follows orders, commits
violence and feels nothing. Funny how Big Pharma just happens to manufacture
chemicals that accomplish the same thing, huh? You could call it "chemical
recruitment" for the U.S. military. The kid gets put on SSRIs today, and in
a few years his mind will be warped enough to sign up for military service
and be told who to shoot, torture or kill. And he'll do it without question,
because he's been chemically prepped for the whole experience thanks to
modern psychiatry -- a murderous, evil cabal of Frankenbrain doctors whose
arrogance is only exceeded by their own lust for power over the minds of the
masses.
Care to guess where this is all leading the United States of America? Stay
tuned, and I'll bring you more predictions of the downfall of America in
future articles. Don't be the last to learn what's really coming in this
country. The mass drugging of the population is only a small piece of the
big picture. For now, stay alert and mindful. Avoid all chemicals. Live
green, and stay connected with the real world around you (the real world
being nature). Invest in your own education and health, and you'll be better
prepared for the tidal wave of global changes yet to come -- changes that
will shatter the illusions under which most people live today, and may
eventually lead to the birth of a new civilization no longer based on
predatory instincts.
Jan Drew
Frank
>
>>
> In fact, I publicly predicted this school shooting in a December 7,
> 2007
> article about the mall shooter in Omaha, where I said:
>
What a total delusion this paragraph is.
>
> There will be more. I hate to be accurate about this grisly
> prediction,
> because I grieve for the families of those lost to
> pharmaceutically-induced
> violence, but the truth is that until we stop drugging our children
> with
> psychotropic drugs, the shootings are not going to stop.
>
There was no prediction.
>
>
> It's a sad, sad state of affairs, and when future historians look back
> on
> why America failed as a nation, they will probably shake their heads
> in
> disbelief (or laugh their heads off) over the mass medication of an
> entire
> population.
What a total idiot, the whole article reeks of a deluded mind on the
level of Linda Gore. This part of the paragraph above is also just as
ridiculous. I am not taking any drugs, nor is anyone in my family, nor
are any of my friends. So what "entire population" is she speaking of,
the people in her twisted mind?
She predicted nothing.
Jan Drew
Marcia wrote the below [for starters]
*I have bipolar disorder and am on 5 meds: Abilify, Neurontin, Effexor,
Wellbutrin and Klonopin, but I've been in treatment for about 25 years
and have sampled a lot of others. ;)*
I understand your wanting to go off meds; a lot of us feel that way,
more sometimes than others. I'm better on them, too, and only get in
trouble when I go off (20-22 days until a manic or depressive episode,
just like clockwork), and have been hospitalized in the past, also. It
would be nice to avoid that in the future...
Zoloft did the same for me, but Effexor and Wellbutrin--together with
my mood stabilizer--have worked wonders. None of the SSRIs were
effective for my depression, tho.
Projection and typical sociopathic behavior from the sociopath, Brad.
You don't care about the readers of this ng; you only care about
yourself. Another sociopathic trait. What are we up to, now--six or
seven?
Jan Drew
"Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message news:fpoghd$q5u$1...@aioe.org...
Restore the rest that you cannot handle.
http://www.thesaveproject.com/
Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.
>
>>
>> April 20, 1999, Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, shot and killed
>> 12
>> classmates and a teacher and wounded 24 others. Harris had been taking
>> Luvox.
>
> "had been taking."
Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.
>
>> Todd Smith walked into as high school in Taber, Alberta, Canada in 1999
>> with
>> a shotgun and killed one and injured a second student. He has been given
>> a
>> drug after a five-minute phone consultation with a psychiatrist.
>
> What drug? Was he taking it?
Dexadrine. Very similar to Ritalin with the same type of side effects
occasionally seen.
The only major difference is that Dexadrine can stay in the blood longer
than Ritalin reducing the frequency of the dose.
>
>>
>> Steven Abrams drove his car into a preschool playground in 1999 in Costa
>> Mesa., Calif., killing two. He was on probation with a requirement to
>> take
>> Lithium.
>
> Doesn't mean he was taking it. People are known to go off their meds
> all the time, especially ones with side-effects as unpleasant as
> Lithium's.
Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.
>
>>
Jan Drew
"Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message news:fpqsol$jjk$1...@aioe.org...
Try to follow, Frankie.
http://www.naturalnews.com/z022656.html
In fact, I publicly predicted this school shooting in a December 7, 2007
article about the mall shooter in Omaha, where I said:
There will be more. I hate to be accurate about this grisly prediction,
because I grieve for the families of those lost to pharmaceutically-induced
violence, but the truth is that until we stop drugging our children with
psychotropic drugs, the shootings are not going to stop.
It's a sad, sad state of affairs, and when future historians look back on
why America failed as a nation, they will probably shake their heads in
disbelief (or laugh their heads off) over the mass medication of an entire
Jan Drew
"Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message news:fpogn8$qtj$1...@aioe.org...
>
> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:MTtvj.3332$Mh2....@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message
>> news:fplobc$lmr$1...@aioe.org...
>>>
>>> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>> news:tAavj.3174$Mh2...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>> Diversion Alert!
>>>>
>>>> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [ ]
>>>
>>> Have you no original thought?
>>
>> Yes, I have plenty, they have all been posted over and over.
>
> I've seen plagarizing, pasting, and little of substance. :(
Not surprised you cannot see the facts.
>
>>>
>>> You are also a spammer, spammers are scum. I snipped your spamming
>>> headers but that does not lessen your intent.
>> No need to attack me. Are you on drugs?
>
> Attack?
Yes...Your attack!
*You are also a spammer, spammers are scum. I snipped your spamming
headers but that does not lessen your intent.*
Are you on drugs like Marcia?
do you feel you should be allowed to do whatsoever your heart
> desires without following or respecting normal conventions and protocol?
>
>
I will post the facts. Period.
Jan Drew
"Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message news:fpofsm$oi1$1...@aioe.org...
Water is a diversion. This thread is not about water.
However what you posted was mostly
> conjecture, based on HS.
>
>
Liar.
Frank
> Original groups restored.
>
> Liar.
Prove otherwise, spammer.
Groups snipped.
Your reading comprehension is poor at best,
your logic is ill
Frank
I can't follow Frankie, that person is not here.
You have no clue what the thread is about.
Frank
>
> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message
> news:fpogn8$qtj$1...@aioe.org...
>>
>> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:MTtvj.3332$Mh2....@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>
>>> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message
>>> news:fplobc$lmr$1...@aioe.org...
>>>>
>>>> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:tAavj.3174$Mh2...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>> Diversion Alert!
>>>>>
>>>>> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [ ]
>>>>
>>>> Have you no original thought?
>>>
>>> Yes, I have plenty, they have all been posted over and over.
>>
>> I've seen plagarizing, pasting, and little of substance. :(
>
> Not surprised you cannot see the facts.
Then you agree with me for once, so when are you going to post facts?
>>
>>>>
>>>> You are also a spammer, spammers are scum. I snipped your spamming
>>>> headers but that does not lessen your intent.
>>> No need to attack me. Are you on drugs?
>>
>> Attack?
>
> Yes...Your attack!
>
> *You are also a spammer, spammers are scum. I snipped your spamming
> headers but that does not lessen your intent.*
>
That is no attack, it is a public statement of fact.
> Are you on drugs like Marcia?
>
You would say this thread is not about Marcia, so why do you make it so?
Hypocrite.
Drugs help Marcia, that is good.
Drugs cannot help you, there is no cure for being idiocy.
> do you feel you should be allowed to do whatsoever your heart
>> desires without following or respecting normal conventions and
>> protocol?
> I will post the facts. Period.
So when will you start this period?
Frank
Hypocrite, spammer, this post according to your complaint is not on
topic.
> *I have bipolar disorder and am on 5 meds: Abilify, Neurontin,
> Effexor,
> Wellbutrin and Klonopin, but I've been in treatment for about 25 years
> and have sampled a lot of others. ;)*
>
Is it possible for you to be this honest, Jan?
>
> I understand your wanting to go off meds; a lot of us feel that way,
> more sometimes than others. I'm better on them, too, and only get in
> trouble when I go off (20-22 days until a manic or depressive episode,
> just like clockwork), and have been hospitalized in the past, also. It
> would be nice to avoid that in the future...
>
Or this honest?
>
> Zoloft did the same for me, but Effexor and Wellbutrin--together with
> my mood stabilizer--have worked wonders. None of the SSRIs were
> effective for my depression, tho.
>
>
Even on drugs I would doubt that you have any honesty.
You are a hypocrite.
You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you on the butt.
You also modified the subject to suit your whims and vendetta, and you
were attacked by neither of the people you mentioned so I snipped your
HS.
So when are you going to start your truthful period?
When are you going to stop lying?
Is it possible for you to drop your deceitfulness.
Can you stay on topic?
Frank
>
>
> Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines
> over the
> past decade have had one thing in common:
> They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or
> a
> related antidepressant drug."
Do you normally speak out of your ass like this?
All the cases you spoke of the persons involved were not taking a drug.
Have you no reading comprehension skills?
Obviously not, you replied to my post, yet you were speaking to Marcia.
Have you also sexual identity problems?
Are you always so daft?
Was that heredity or learned behaviors on your part?
marcia
You might have indicated this is a combination of several posts
written at different times over the course of several years. You make
it appear as though this is one post, which makes you a deliberate
liar. Shame on you, Jan.
FYI, I currently take Effexor, Wellbutrin, Abilify, Klonopin and a
small dose of Seroquel for sleep, so the information is also out of
date. Current information was available. Shame on you, Jan.
Do you mean to suggest that, by taking psych meds, I'm a danger to my
community? I have never been violent with anyone; in fact, I'm less
easily angered because of taking the meds for bipolar disorder.
Therefore, I know first-hand whereof I speak. You are simply trying to
discredit me. Shame on you, Jan.
marcia
> "Frank" <dawgf...@ten.hut> wrote in messagenews:fpogn8$qtj$1...@aioe.org...
>
> > "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> >news:MTtvj.3332$Mh2....@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> >> "Frank" <dawgf...@ten.hut> wrote in message
> >>news:fplobc$lmr$1...@aioe.org...
>
> >>> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:tAavj.3174$Mh2...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
> >>>> Diversion Alert!
>
> >>>> "Frank" <dawgf...@ten.hut> wrote:
>
> >>>> [ ]
>
> >>> Have you no original thought?
>
> >> Yes, I have plenty, they have all been posted over and over.
>
> > I've seen plagarizing, pasting, and little of substance. :(
>
> Not surprised you cannot see the facts.
>
>
>
> >>> You are also a spammer, spammers are scum. I snipped your spamming
> >>> headers but that does not lessen your intent.
> >> No need to attack me. Are you on drugs?
>
> > Attack?
>
> Yes...Your attack!
>
> *You are also a spammer, spammers are scum. I snipped your spamming
> headers but that does not lessen your intent.*
>
> Are you on drugs like Marcia?
>
> do you feel you should be allowed to do whatsoever your heart> desires without following or respecting normal conventions and protocol?
>
> I will post the facts. Period.
Are you saying I "do whatsoever [my] heart desires without following
or respecting normal conventions and protocol?" I say bullshit, and
post the facts. You are creating a smear campaign on the order of Carl
Rove. Finally, Jan, have you no shame?
D. C. Sessions
> I'm a member of the Second Amendment Sisters and practice regularly at
> a local range. And yes, I do carry a gun when I think it might be
> necessary. Here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts it's pretty
> dicey for a lawful gun owner if they ever actually have to use their
> gun, the bad guy will get sympathy (especially if they die in the
> process that they initiated when they attacked, but that's besides the
> point - they had a bad childhood or somesuch bullshit) and the person
> who defended themselves will lose everything they own in the legal
> nightmare that will ensue, and most likely spend time in jail. But
> I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.
$DAUGHTER had the option of getting a carry pistol and the
Concealed Carry course here for her birthday. Given as she
was headed from Arizona to Florida and Caswell's can do an
approved multistate program, it would have been easy enough.
Instead, $BOSS took her and his collection one evening and
burned a *lot* of powder letting her get an idea of whether
she wanted to get involved. She's not sure, but it was a
kick having "kids art" on the refrigerator for a while.
Some nice groupings there for someone who'd never handled
a firearm before.
marcia
Can't handle rational discussion, can you, Jan? I treated you with
respect by staying on topic, and you launched a personal attack
against me. I have a feeling God is not going to be too pleased with
the way you treat people, Jan. You'll answer for this eventually.
Bee
>
> Can't handle rational discussion, can you, Jan? I treated you with
> respect by staying on topic, and you launched a personal attack
> against me. I have a feeling God is not going to be too pleased with
> the way you treat people, Jan. You'll answer for this eventually.
It looks like you have already been paid back by God...5 prescription
drugs. Now, that's something to brag about!!
marcia
Who's bragging?
Mark Probert
Marcia was having a civil discussion and was personally attacked
because of her *medical condition*. She posts a rather civil and
restrained response and this is what you post?
What a despicable thing to say. How horrid a person you really must
be. You should go to whatever house of worship you visit, if you do,
and thank G-d you do not have to live with a mental illness.
Mark Probert
> On Feb 24, 5:12 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Marcia was having a civil discussion and was personally attacked
> > because of her *medical condition*. She posts a rather civil and
> > restrained response and this is what you post?
>
> > What a despicable thing to say. How horrid a person you really must
> > be. You should go to whatever house of worship you visit, if you do,
> > and thank G-d you do not have to live with a mental illness.
>
> public view---then one needs
> to expect answers they may or may not like.
SO WHAT. THAT DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE DISGUSTING RESPONSE AND WHAT YOU
POSTED.
The post in question was
> in the
> misc. health.alternative newsgroup which I read. The poster claims
> to be taking 5 prescription
> drugs. You have proclaimed in the MHA that conventional supporters
> have the right to write
> negative comments about those of us that support alternative therapies
> or complementary therapies
> that you do not approve of.
No, stupid, I have never said that. Do learn how to read for
comprehension. That means for understanding. Anyone has the right to
post what they believe about various topics. When it gets personal
like this, it crosses the line.
It has to work both ways. Should the
> people not be informed about
> the possible side effects of prescription drugs? What's good for the
> goose is good for the gander.
A personal attack based on that person's medical condition goes way
beyond any form of civil discourse. You despicably justify it.
> Live with it Probert.
I do, every day. You should, too. But, your life is not worth living.
'
Bee
> Who's bragging?
Remember---when someone puts out their personal information in the
public view---then one needs to expect answers they may or may not
like. The post in question was
in the misc. health.alternative newsgroup which I read, as well as
posted in others. The claim was that
made was that the poster was taking 5 prescription drugs. Do you want
everyone in the world to know what you
are taking and why? Well, you have just announced it to the world
what you are taking and the reason. And your friend, Mark Probert
continued with your private medical history into yet another
post. A lot of people do not realize that EVERY BODY then has
access to their medical information. Do you not know this? That's
why I asked you if you were bragging, because EVERY ONE in the world
has access to your posts and everyone elses. Just because you
subscribe to a newsgroup doesn't mean only those that prescribe to the
newsgroup can see your posts--everyone can.
Should people not be informed about the possible side effects of
prescription drugs? I think so,
just as people should be informed if an alternative therapy is
questionable as well. I appreciated
the poster's information that you made a derogatory comment about.
stanw
Are you serious? What else do you do for fun? Stick your foot
out in front of a blind person? Sneak up behind a deaf person, put
your hands over his/her eyes and yell "guess who"?
No, wait. You go to pediatric cancer wards and tell the children
"See? You should always be nice to mommy and daddy, and pray and take
your vitamins, and... But nooooo. You had to be rotten
little...rotten little....ick!...CHILDREN!...and now look atcha!"
Do you wear glasses? Ever used crutches or a wheelchair? You or
any family or loved one take insulin or glucophage or what not?
Gee - must be karma. Y'all the same, no matter what mask you
put on. A flame-baiting troll is a flame-baiting troll.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwnnn!!!!
Personally, speaking as one who knows a thing or two about the
implications both of treating and of NOT treating an illness, I doubt
very much that the 5 meds that help keep a volatile and debilitating
illness in check, are considered the "pay back".
Anything that restores even a smidge of wellness to a person can
be considered a blessing. If I or anyone has done anything for which
we must repent, putting up with post-digestion deposits like you is
certainly karma enough.
-stan
Jan Drew
I might, I might expsose WHY you defend these drugs which you take/have
taken. Cocktails.
You make
> it appear as though this is one post, which makes you a deliberate
> liar. Shame on you, Jan.
LOL!
marcia" <i...@idesnsight.rr.com
**Nowhere is my email address munged.**
Btw, you posted that AFTER you indeed were dishonest and were caught.
>
> FYI, I currently take Effexor, Wellbutrin, Abilify, Klonopin and a
> small dose of Seroquel for sleep, so the information is also out of
> date. Current information was available.
That is exactly why you defend these drugs.
>Shame on you, Jan.
This thread is not. about Jan.
>
> Do you mean to suggest that, by taking psych meds, I'm a danger to my
> community?
I did not suggest anything.
I have never been violent with anyone; in fact, I'm less
> easily angered because of taking the meds for bipolar disorder.
> Therefore, I know first-hand whereof I speak.
You need to check with your buddy Mark S Probert about anecdotes and
*personal experience*.
>You are simply trying to discredit me.
You do a fine job of that yourself.
> Shame on you, Jan.
Maybe you can find a psych med for repeatitis??
Frank
>
>>
> This thread is not. about Jan.
>
All your threads are. You are kidding no one.
Yet you be the looser still.
Coleah
> On Feb 24, 5:12 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Marcia was having a civil discussion and was personally attacked
> > because of her *medical condition*. She posts a rather civil and
> > restrained response and this is what you post?
>
> > What a despicable thing to say. How horrid a person you really must
> > be. You should go to whatever house of worship you visit, if you do,
> > and thank G-d you do not have to live with a mental illness.
>
> public view---then one needs
> to expect answers they may or may not like. The post in question was
> in the
> to be taking 5 prescription
> drugs. You have proclaimed in the MHA that conventional supporters
> have the right to write
> negative comments about those of us that support alternative therapies
> or complementary therapies
> people not be informed about
> goose is good for the gander.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That position works for you.
I would enjoy learning about proven alternative measures which correct
chemical imbalances in the brain.
Jan Drew
Bee
> I would enjoy learning about proven alternative measures which correct
> chemical imbalances in the brain.
I would suggest contacting a professional alternative health doctor
( ie., a naturopath),
to answer your questions to your health care problems if this is
indeed an interest of yours,
or a problem that ails you or a loved one.
Bee
>
> >Jan: This thread is not. about Jan.
>
>Frank: All your threads are. You are kidding no one.
> Yet you be the looser still.
No, the thread is not about Jan. However someone changed
the thread to broadcast her name because the party didn't like
the information that was presented and as it would appear was
attempting to stifle
Jan's speech.
Frank, the spelling of "LOSER" is not LOOSER.
Frank
"Coleah" <col...@pacifier.com> wrote in message
news:e068dbeb-14ab-481c...@h25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
========================
Are you sure it is attributable to chemical imbalances in the first
place?
The brain is an interesting assortment of analogue and digital signals
and has the capability of remote communication via means other than the
typical seven senses. This is not to say that chemistry does not play a
part in the total picture, especially since things like some capacitors
and batteries require chemistry in order to operate properly.
I say this not to confuse but only to pique interests for successful
opportunities in other areas and not loose the overall picture when
focused on one narrow area with limited understanding.
Jan Drew
> On Feb 23, 12:20 am, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote in message
>>
> Restored my points as they are relevant, and you have demonstrated
> that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.
>
> What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
> mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
> become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
> crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
> the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
> sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
> drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
> and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
> more--
> examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
> NOT on psychiatric medications.
>
> Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
> the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
> being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
> are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
> completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
> were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.
>
> You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
> listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
> come into play. Think about it.
Restore my points that you did not answer which are most relevant.
Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.
>> Later that same year, 19-year-old James Wilson went on a shooting rampage
>> at
>> the Greenwood, S.C., Elementary School and killed two 8-year-old girls
>> and
>> wounded seven others. He'd been on Xanax, Valium and five other drugs.
> Again, "had been" implies he was no longer taking the drugs. Xanax and
> Valium are both benzodiazapines, minor sedatives with known to
> disinhibit people at high doses. I doubt a doctor would have
> prescribed this combination; therefore, it suggests the shooter may
> have abusing drugs off prescription.
You doubt the facts.
>> Kip Kinkel, a 15-year-old of Springfield, Ore., in 1998 murdered his
>> parents
>> and proceeded to his high school where he went on a rampage killing two
>> students and wounding 22 others. Kinkel had been prescribed both Prozac
>> and
>> Ritalin.
> "Had been prescribed" does not mean he was taking the meds. Careful
> choice of words designed to imply meds were the cause without
> substantiation. Bias showing.
LOL! Who is bias, Marcia?
>> Patrick Purdy, 25, in 1989 opened fire on a school yard filled with
>> children
>> in Stockton, Calif. Five kids were killed and 30 wounded. He been treated
>> with Thorazine and Amitriptyline.
> If he were still taking his thorazine, I can almost guarantee he
> wouldn't have had the energy to shoot someone. Suggests a
> schizophrenic (who the med is prescribed to) off medication.
Suggest...suggest.
>> Steve Lieth of Chelsea, Mich., in 1993 walked into a school meeting and
>> shot
>> and killed the school superintendent, wounding two others, while on
>> Prozac.
> Does not prove Prozac was the cause of his behavior.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if every single shooter in
recent
memory was treated with psych meds, and if those same psych meds are well
known to cause violent thoughts and suicidal behavior, it's fairly obvious
that the chemicals are the most likely cause of the behavioral problems.
It's also worth noting that before children were prescribed such medications
in America, school shootings were virtually unheard of. It was only after
psychiatric medicine started targeting young people with mind-altering
medications that we witnessed this explosion in violence.
Pharmaceutical-induced violence
Until we stop medication young people with mind-altering psychotropic drugs,
we will simply not see an end to this pharmaceutical-induced violence. Even
if you somehow manage to take away all the guns, similar atrocities can be
carried out with machetes, swords, knives or explosives. The problem here is
not simply the weapon, but rather the mind behind the trigger. When minds
are disturbed through psychiatric medications and young men are trapped in a
chemically-induced state of sub-consciousness with no connection to reality,
outbursts of mindless violence are exactly what you're going to get.
>> 10-year-old Tommy Becton in 1996 grabbed his 3-year-old niece as a shield
>> and aimed a shotgun at a sheriff's deputy who accompanied a truant
>> officer
>> to his Florida home. He'd been put on Prozac.
> Was he taking it? Had it had time to take effect? Again, does not
> prove Prozac was the cause of his behavior.
Why are you defending Prozac and all other meds mentioned here?
>> Michael Carneal, 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer
>> meeting
>> in Heath High in West Paducah, Ky. Three died and one was paralyzed.
>> Carneal
>> reportedly was on Ritalin.
> "Reportedly." Unsubstantiated.
http://www.thesaveproject.com/
>> In 1998, 11-year-old Andrew Golden and 14-year-old Mitchell Johnson
>> apparently faked a fire alarm at Westside Middle School in Jonesboro,
>> Ark.,
>> and shot at students as they left the building. Four students and a
>> teacher
>> were killed. The boys were believed to be on Ritalin.
> "believed to be." Again, unsubstantiated.
http://www.thesaveproject.com/
>> In 1999, Shawn Cooper, 15, of Notus, Idaho, took a shotgun to school and
>> injured one student. He had been taking Ritalin.
> "Had been taking." Again, suggests he was off medication.
Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.
>> April 20, 1999, Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, shot and killed
>> 12
>> classmates and a teacher and wounded 24 others. Harris had been taking
>> Luvox.
> "had been taking."
Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.
>> Todd Smith walked into as high school in Taber, Alberta, Canada in 1999
>> with
>> a shotgun and killed one and injured a second student. He has been given
>> a
>> drug after a five-minute phone consultation with a psychiatrist.
> What drug? Was he taking it?
Dexadrine. Very similar to Ritalin with the same type of side effects
occasionally seen.
The only major difference is that Dexadrine can stay in the blood longer
than Ritalin reducing the frequency of the dose.
>> Steven Abrams drove his car into a preschool playground in 1999 in Costa
>> Mesa., Calif., killing two. He was on probation with a requirement to
>> take
>> Lithium.
> Doesn't mean he was taking it. People are known to go off their meds
> all the time, especially ones with side-effects as unpleasant as
> Lithium's.
Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.
>> In 2000, T.J. Solomon, 15, opened fire at Heritage High School in
>> Conyers,
>> Ga., while on a mix of antidepressants. Six were wounded.
> Doesn't prove the antidepressants were the cause.
The prosecutor said authorities found the sawed-off barrel and scope from a
.22 rifle hidden in Solomon's bedroom.
Read said the search of Solomon's home turned up three pages of bomb
instructions printed from the Internet along with a note that alludes to the
April 20 school shooting at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado.
Solomon's note, which was found under his bed, mentioned his "brothers and
sisters related to the Trench Coat Mafia."
The note also said Solomon had planned the shootings for years but finally
got angry enough to do it.
>> The same year Seth Trickey of Gibson, Okla., 13, was on a variety of
>> prescriptions when he opened fire on his middle-school class, injuring
>> five.
> "on a variety of prescriptions" could mean anything. Doesn't say they
> were psych drugs.>
Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."
>> Elizabeth Bush, 14, was on Prozac. She shot and wounded another student
>> at
>> Bishop Neumann High in Williamsport, Pa.
> Doesn't prove Prozac was the cause.
Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."
>> Jason Hoffman, 18, in 2001 was on Effexor and Celexa, both
>> antidepressants,
>> when he wounded two teachers at California's Granite Hills High School.
> Doesn't prove Effexor and Celexa were the cause.
Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."
>> In Wahluke, Wash., Cory Baadsgaard, 16, took a rifle to his high
>> schooland
>> held 23 classmates hostage in 2001. He has been taking Paxil and Effexor.
> Doesn't prove Paxil and Effexor were the cause.
Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."
>> In Tokyo in 2001, Mamoru Takuma, 37, went into a second-grade classroom
>> and
>> started stabbing students. He killed eight. He had taken 10 times his
>> normal
>> dosage of an antidepressant.
> Abuse of drug.
Latest figures showing that antidepressants have become the most commonly
prescribed drugs in the United States
>> Duane Morrison, 53, shot and killed a girl at Platte Canyon High School
>> in
>> Colorado in 2006. Antidepressants later were found in his vehicle.
> Doesn't prove he was taking them, or that they were the cause of the
> violence.
Yeah, he must have had them to give to his dog............................
>> In 2005, 16-year-old Native American Jeff Weise on the Red Lake Indian
>> Reservation in Minnesota was under the influence of the antidepressant
>> Prozac when he shot and killed nine people and wounding five before
>> committing suicide.
> "Under the influence" demonstrates extreme bias against psych meds
> without supporting evidence that Prozac "influences" anyone to do
> anything.
Prozac is the antidepressant made by Eli Lilly. It is the most profitable
drug in history. The side effects of Prozac include that it makes people
violent. Many of the most sensational killing sprees have been committed by
drug-crazed people who were made that way by Prozac. Click here for a page
with many links to material about Prozac. You can even read about how Lilly
knew that Prozac would cause the side effect of violence, but hid that
truth.
Withdrawal from Prozac is harder than withdrawing from heroin! The
withdrawal symptoms include trembling and tendencies to either suicide or
violence to others.
Here is what Eli Lilly admits to in its official explanation of Prozac side
effects:
Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors--There have been reports of serious, sometimes
fatal, reactions (including hyperthermia, rigidity, myoclonus, with
possible rapid fluctuations of vital signs, and mental status changes that
include extreme agitation progressing to delirium and coma) in patients
receiving fluoxetine in combination with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor
(MAOI), and in patients who have recently discontinued fluoxetine and are
then started on an MAOI. Some cases presented with features resembling
neuroleptic malignant syndrome. Therefore, Prozac should not be used in
combination with an MAOI, or within a minimum of 14 days of discontinuing
therapy with an MAOI. Since fluoxetine and its major metabolite have very
long elimination half-lives, at least 5 weeks (perhaps longer, especially if
fluoxetine has been prescribed chronically and/or at higher doses (See
Accumulation and Slow Elimination Under ACTIONS/CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY))
should be allowed after stopping Prozac before starting an MAOI.
Prozac side effects include murder! Prozac withdrawal symptoms include a
desire to commit violence. Eli Lilly Prozac is soon to be replaced the same
drug with a different name. Prozac antidepressant winds up CAUSING
depression.
The initial effect of Prozac seems to be more calm. But, this is the symptom
of becoming more like a vegetable. After a period of time on this
antidepressant, the Prozac side effects are much more prominent that the
intended main effect. This is the point where it is virtually impossible to
withdraw from use of the drug, and the point where the person is more and
more willing to commit violence, including murder, on others.
Eli Lilly is one of the most evil drug companies on the planet. They knew,
many years ago, about the side effects of Prozac. They deliberately hid the
truth for the sole purpose of making billions of dollars of profit on this
harmful drug.
Mark Probert
I'll go with the experts who authoried and led the Safe Schools
Initiative:
Author Brief Bios
Robert A. Fein, Ph.D.
Robert Fein is a forensic psychologist who is a director of the
National Violence
Prevention and Study Center. Dr. Fein has worked with the U.S. Secret
Service for
the last twenty years in the area of threat assessment. Recently, he
has served as codirector
of the Secret Service Safe School Initiative. Together with Br yan
Vossekuill,
Dr. Fein is author of Protective Intelligence and Threat Assessment: A
Guide for State
and Local Law Enforcement Officials and of other publications
concerning targeted
violence. He holds appointments at Harvard Medical School and the
University of
Massachusetts Medical School. Dr. Fein can be reached at
rf...@nvpsc.org.
Bryan Vossekuil
Bryan Vossekuil is a director of the National Violence Prevention and
Study Center.
He retired as a special agent in the U.S. Secret Service, where he
served as executive
director of the National Threat Assessment Center. He also served as
co-director of
both the Secret Service's Safe School Initiative and Exceptional Case
Study Project.
He has a special interest in the assessment and management of
threatening persons
and situations and has co-authored a number of publications on threat
assessment.
He can be reached at bvoss...@nvpsc.org.
William S. Pollack, Ph.D.
Dr. Pollack is Director of the Centers for Men and Young Men at McLean
Hospital
in Belmont, Massachusetts. He is Assistant Clinical Professor in the
Department of
Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and is a Director of the National
Violence
Prevention and Study Center, as well as founder and Director of the
REAL BOYS(R)
Educational Programs. He has served on the U.S. Presidential
Initiative, the
National Campaign Against Youth Violence and is a consultant to the
United States
Secret Service, including its collaborative Safe School Initiative
with the U.S.
Department of Education. The author of three popular books re-framing
the roles of
boys in the family: Real Boys, Real Boys' Voices and the Real Boys
Workbook, his
work has also focused on the roles of violence and depression in
American society,
the impact of emotional cognition/roles within organizations--most
especially in
creating "safe climates" in schools & the workplace, and male-female
relationships.
He may be reached at: wpol...@williampollack.com.
Randy Borum, Psy.D.
Dr. Randy Borum is Associate Professor in the Department of Mental
Health
Law & Policy at University of South Florida. He is a licensed
psychologist and is
Board-Certified (ABPP) and fellowship-trained in Forensic Psychology.
He has served
THREAT ASSESSMENT IN SCHOOLS GUIDE
a sworn police officer for municipal departments in Maryland and
Florida, and is
currently a consultant to the U.S. Secret Service National Threat
Assessment Center,
where he worked on the Safe School Initiative, and Advisory Board
Member for the
FBI's Behavioral Science Unit.
William Modzeleski
Bill Modzeleski currently serves as the Director of the Safe and Drug-
Free Schools
Program at the U.S. Department of Education. Mr. Modzeleski has over
30 years of
experience working on issues related to the care and well-being of
youth. He has
served in several capacities at the U.S. Department of Justice and at
the local level.
President Bush recently named Mr. Modzeleski as a Meritorious
Executive for his
work in the area of school safety.
Marisa Reddy, Ph.D.
Marisa Reddy is the chief research psychologist and research
coordinator
for the U.S. Secret Service National Threat Assessment Center. Dr.
Reddy oversees
all research conducted by the U.S. Secret Service on targeted violence
and threat
assessment, and serves as co-director of the Safe School Initiative.
Dr. Reddy is coauthor
of "Evaluating Risk for Targeted Violence in Schools: Comparing Risk
Assessment, Threat Assessment, and Other Approaches," as well as
additional
publications on the prevention of various types of targeted violence.
Dr. Reddy can
be reached at nt...@secretservice.gov.
88
Bee
>
> Are you serious? What else do you do for fun? Stick your foot
> out in front of a blind person? Sneak up behind a deaf person, put
> your hands over his/her eyes and yell "guess who"?
No, do you? You seem to know all of the tricks. I see you are
from New Jersey--is this what you do for fun?
>
> No, wait. You go to pediatric cancer wards and tell the children
> "See? You should always be nice to mommy and daddy, and pray and take
> your vitamins, and... But nooooo. You had to be rotten
> little...rotten little....ick!...CHILDREN!...and now look atcha!"
I do not take vitamins or supplements I wouldn't know. I get my
vitamins
and minerals from food.
>
> Do you wear glasses? Ever used crutches or a wheelchair? You or
> any family or loved one take insulin or glucophage or what not?
My medical history is NOT your business, is it?
>
> Gee - must be karma. Y'all the same, no matter what mask you
> put on. A flame-baiting troll is a flame-baiting troll.
> Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwnnn!!!!
Yep, you are pretty boring alright. This post came into the newsgroup
which I regular contribute to and post to. Troll...not hardly--one
could
say that about you but I am not.
>
> Personally, speaking as one who knows a thing or two about the
> implications both of treating and of NOT treating an illness, I doubt
> very much that the 5 meds that help keep a volatile and debilitating
> illness in check, are considered the "pay back".
Well, I have to say, the poster was slightly a little more than "just
out of line,
with the previous poster's information, changing the subject matter
was
uncalled for. The previous poster said "nothing" about her, and I saw
"the aerobics" that
goes on in MHA all of the time - bending, twisting, and stretching
information so
it suits on one's agenda.
> Anything that restores even a smidge of wellness to a person can
> be considered a blessing. If I or anyone has done anything for which
> we must repent, putting up with post-digestion deposits like you is
> certainly karma enough.
Oh Stan, I'm sorry, but you do not even bother me in the slightest. I
appreciate
the Sunday night humor. The warnings about prescription medicine
are important
topic. That was the point of the previous posters post. And then to
get some left
field bullshit back that was completely off base from the previous
poster's post was
completely uncalled for.
If you put something out in the public eye--especially about your own
personal health,
in a newsgroup which everyone can read from here to China and back is
not a good thing.
In case you do not know, people troll the newsgroups gathering
information for a variety
of things, and when one puts their private medical history on the
internet, which is their
choice -- sometimes they do not realize that everyone and their
brother can see the information
and use it as they see fit. Do you want people to know what drugs you
take and for what
ailments?
I agree some medicines do wonderful things for people, and some
medicines have been known
to harm people as well.
Bee
>
> I'll go with the experts who authoried and led the Safe Schools
> Initiative:
>
I'll go to a link from today's paper about the problem with
prescription drugs,
and the shootings.
http://www.southtownstar.com/news/brehm/808257,022408brehmcol.article
Jan Drew
Poor Marica. This is not an attack is it??
Plenty of personal attacks fron you, and Frank.
You overlook that.
I have a feeling God is not going to be too pleased with
> the way you treat people, Jan. You'll answer for this eventually.
I treat people just fine. YOU, Mark S Probert, Frank and the *gang* do not.
That is a fact.
You also are dishonest.
Jan Drew
Feb 20
On Feb 20, 12:56 am, "Frank" <dawgf...@ten.hut> wrote:
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:xWNuj.9893$0o7....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
> > Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to Shooting Rampage
> > by Mike Adams
> 85% of Americans ate a corn product within a week before they died.
ROFL!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/23d26e897faca33a
Feb 21
On Feb 21, 3:28 am, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote:
> > ROFL!
> Sad that.
Sad, the media's interpretation and reporting of the use of psych meds
relative to the incident. For one thing, the shooter had gone OFF his
meds, which suggests that perhaps had he kept taking them the shooting
might never have occurred. And for another thing, there is no evidence
to suggest psych meds are the cause of violence. Remember the
University of Texas bell tower shooting? There were no medications
involved prior to that incident--just one deranged, mentally ill
student. I think someone is drawing the wrong conclusions.
Therefore, Frank's interpretation is just as good as that of the
journalist--and twice as entertaining.
http://www.naturalnews.com/z022656.html
NaturalNews.com printable article
February 17 2008
Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to Shooting Rampage
by Mike Adams
(NaturalNews) It comes as no surprise to anyone who's been following school
shootings all the way back to the Colombine High massacre in Colorado: Every
young, male shooter that has gone on a killing spree in the United States
also
has a history of treatment with psychotropic drugs -- typically SSRI
antidepressants. These shootings have three things in common: 1) The
shooters
are young males. 2) The shooters exhibit a mind-numbed disconnect with
reality. 3) The shooters have a history of taking psychiatric medications.
This latest shooting by 27-year-old Stephen Kazmierczak shares the same
three
factors. Stephen was considered a "normal, undistressed person," according
to
press reports. He was considered "an outstanding student" and even received
a
Dean's Award for outstanding work in sociology. So what happened to
Stephen's
brain that caused him to snap and open fire on students in a college
classroom?
Psych meds make good people do bad things
Psychiatric medications, of course, are well known to cause extremely
violent
thoughts and behavior in young males. This is actually acknowledged by the
FDA
and is found in the black-box warnings printed on the packaging for such
drugs. In Europe, the prescribing of many such drugs to children and teens
is
actually illegal. But in the United States, where psychiatric medications
have
become the "new medicine" for American youth, nobody seems to pay attention
to
the simple fact that every school shooting we've seen in the last decade has
been committed by a young male with a history of treatment with psychiatric
medications.
The mainstream media, of course, is trying to spin the story by claiming
Stephen snapped because he stopped taking his medications. MSM headlines
proclaim, "Illinois Shooter Stopped Taking His Medications." What these
headlines fail to communicate is the fact that psychiatric drugs cause
long-term disruptions in the brain which lead to a strong dissociation with
reality. These young, male shooters hardly even know they're in the real
world
anymore. They no longer see their fellow classmates as human beings, but
rather as lifeless objects to be used for target practice. For those people
taking psychiatric medications, there's even a strong dissociation with
one's
own life, as evidenced by the repeated willingness of these shooters to
ultimately turn their guns on themselves.
These are precisely the kinds of things acted out by people who take psych
medications: Disconnection with reality, disconnection with self, and
disconnection with others. Modern psychiatric medicine is in the business of
taking people who feel depressed and chemically lobotomizing their brains so
they feel nothing. Once they feel nothing, there's nothing stopping them
from
unloading on fellow human beings with firearms. They no longer feel empathy
or
compassion. Nothing matters anymore. This is strongly characteristic of the
well-documented side effects of psychiatric medications.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Illinois shooter's history of taking
psychiatric medications was the primary cause of his violent behavior. It
doesn't take a genius to figure out that if every single shooter in recent
memory was treated with psych meds, and if those same psych meds are well
known to cause violent thoughts and suicidal behavior, it's fairly obvious
that the chemicals are the most likely cause of the behavioral problems.
It's
also worth noting that before children were prescribed such medications in
America, school shootings were virtually unheard of. It was only after
psychiatric medicine started targeting young people with mind-altering
medications that we witnessed this explosion in violence.
Pharmaceutical-induced violence
Until we stop medication young people with mind-altering psychotropic drugs,
we will simply not see an end to this pharmaceutical-induced violence. Even
if
you somehow manage to take away all the guns, similar atrocities can be
carried out with machetes, swords, knives or explosives. The problem here is
not simply the weapon, but rather the mind behind the trigger. When minds
are
disturbed through psychiatric medications and young men are trapped in a
chemically-induced state of sub-consciousness with no connection to reality,
outbursts of mindless violence are exactly what you're going to get.
In fact, I publicly predicted this school shooting in a December 7, 2007
article about the mall shooter in Omaha, where I said:
There will be more. I hate to be accurate about this grisly prediction,
because I grieve for the families of those lost to pharmaceutically-induced
violence, but the truth is that until we stop drugging our children with
psychotropic drugs, the shootings are not going to stop.
And as sad as this tragedy is for all those affected by this
medication-induced violence, the truly sad part is that America still hasn't
learned this lesson. If you drug the children with chemicals that cause
violence, you're going to see more shootings. It's as simple as that. And if
you take away the guns, you'll see bombs, knives or machetes used in these
attacks. When disturbed young boys are doped up on psychotropic drugs that
promote violence -- and they're drugged by the hundreds of thousands -- it's
like playing a national game of Russian roulette (with apologies to Russia).
Sooner or later, another kid whose mind has been altered by Ritalin, Prozac
or
some other drug is going to walk into yet another school or mall and start
killing people. This kind of behavior is a direct product of chemical-based
psychiatric "treatment."
Let me now continue that prediction by stating that the Illinois shooting
won't be the last one, either. As long as the psychiatric industry -- which
is
now run by Big Pharma -- is allowed to run amok and "play doctor" with the
chemicals in children's brains, we're going to continue to see school
shootings, bombings, stabbings and other outbursts of violence. While
ignorant
psych docs will say the population needs more drugs, and while silly voters
will call for bans on guns, nothing will actually prevent this kind of
violence in America until we stop drugging our children with mind-altering
drugs and stop exposing them to extremely violent video games and television
shows. In fact, I believe it is the combination of violent TV programming
and
mind-altering psych meds that ultimately leads to the kind of violence that
took place in Illinois.
Modern psychiatry kills
In Illinois, Omaha, Colombine, Virginia Tech and other places, the real
murderers are not simply the young men who pulled the triggers but rather
the
criminal minds running modern psychiatry -- an industry that preys upon
young
men and boys, enslaving them in a regimen of mind-altering chemicals that
create disturbed behaviors, all while calling it "treatment."
While the MSM will, of course, sensationalize this story and blame the lone
shooter, the real culprits behind this latest massacre are the psychiatric
doctors and drug companies who continue to push these dangerous,
mind-altering
drugs onto young men, knowing full well that a certain percentage of them
will
exhibit extremely violent behavior. Of course, in order to protect its
revenues and power over people, modern psychiatry has selectively decided to
deny the existence of any link between mind-altering drugs and mindless
violence, insisting that these young men actually need more chemical
treatment, not less. The only reason Stephen Kazmierczak went on a shooting
spree, if you ask the psychiatrists, is because he didn't have enough
synthetic chemicals in his brain! America needs more drugs, didn't you know?
Of course, that reasoning is absurd from the outset. What Stephen needed was
mental clarity, not chemical obfuscation. Do mind-altering drugs provide
mental clarity? Of course not. They suppress clarity, causing mental
confusion
and dissociation. In some people, they can cause extremely violent outbursts
of behavior. Mental clarity (and balanced behavior) is only achieved through
a
chemical-free diet and lifestyle... one that's based on fresh produce,
plant-based diets, superfoods and natural, chemical-free products. What
Stephen needed, in summary, was green living. Had he been on a plant-based
diet, he never would have gone on that shooting rampage.
Natural health consumers are far more mentally balanced
Tet me finish this story with yet another prediction: You will never see a
shooting rampage conducted by a raw foods advocate who practices green
living,
who eats no animal products, who uses no drugs and who takes no
pharmaceuticals. Those people are the most emotionally balanced,
compassionate
and healthy individuals you'll ever find. The chances of a green living
person
ever "snapping" and going on a shooting rampage are zero. Search all the
news
archives you want: You'll never find a single case of someone on a
plant-based
diet with no chemicals in their bodies going off and killing people.
It's only people who eat animal products and who take mind-altering
medications that end up committing these violent acts.
Too bad most of the journalists who work for the mainstream media are too
doped up themselves to notice these fairly obvious correlations. Most of
those
folks are on psych meds, too, and you see it in their writing, which
exhibits
an astounding disconnect with reality. The mass medication of people in
America has become so "normal" that journalists no longer think medications
could possibly have any role in aberrant behavior. And so we're left with
the
blind reporting to the blind about events caused by the blind. (In this
case,
"blind" meaning a lack of awareness / consciousness.)
It's a sad, sad state of affairs, and when future historians look back on
why
America failed as a nation, they will probably shake their heads in
disbelief
(or laugh their heads off) over the mass medication of an entire population.
Seriously, our present-day practices of medicating everybody will someday
seem
just as stupid as doctors' use of radiation in the early 20th century to
give
people "more energy." It's true: Doctors often prescribed irradiated pills,
irradiated water and other radioactive substances to their patients,
claiming
they would give them energy. Today, we know the radiation was poisonous and
the practice was stupid, but one thing I've noticed about the history of
medicine is that doctors always manage to find a new scam that keeps them
rich
while poisoning the people. A hundred years ago, it was radiation pills.
Today, it's depression pills. Same scam, different era. Same stupid doctors.
Same gullible population.
There truly is nothing new under the sun.
How Big Pharma recruits mindless soldiers for the Pentagon
Oh, and by the way, on the conspiracy side of things, did you ever wonder
why
it's primarily young boys who are drugged with violence-inducing chemicals?
Notice that violent young men also make highly effective soldiers who can
mindlessly commit violent atrocities against prisoners in secret U.S.
military
bases like, say, Gitmo. The more the U.S. government can drug young men and
cause them to feel nothing, the more easily they can sign them up to go
murder
innocents in whatever country is being targeted next by the imperialist Bush
was machine.
Pharmaceuticals and war go hand in hand, and the more minds that can be
nullified by pharmaceuticals, the more mindless bodies are made available
for
the Pentagon's war machine. And that, of course, is exactly what makes a
good
soldier these days: A mindless body that follows orders, commits violence
and
feels nothing. Funny how Big Pharma just happens to manufacture chemicals
that
accomplish the same thing, huh? You could call it "chemical recruitment" for
the U.S. military. The kid gets put on SSRIs today, and in a few years his
mind will be warped enough to sign up for military service and be told who
to
shoot, torture or kill. And he'll do it without question, because he's been
chemically prepped for the whole experience thanks to modern psychiatry -- a
murderous, evil cabal of Frankenbrain doctors whose arrogance is only
exceeded
by their own lust for power over the minds of the masses.
Care to guess where this is all leading the United States of America? Stay
tuned, and I'll bring you more predictions of the downfall of America in
future articles. Don't be the last to learn what's really coming in this
country. The mass drugging of the population is only a small piece of the
big
picture. For now, stay alert and mindful. Avoid all chemicals. Live green,
and
stay connected with the real world around you (the real world being nature).
Invest in your own education and health, and you'll be better prepared for
the
tidal wave of global changes yet to come -- changes that will shatter the
illusions under which most people live today, and may eventually lead to the
birth of a new civilization no longer based on predatory instincts.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/b99e543a81342880
Feb 21
> Sad, the media's interpretation and reporting of the use of psych meds
> relative to the incident. For one thing, the shooter had gone OFF his
> meds, which suggests that perhaps had he kept taking them the shooting
> might never have occurred. And for another thing, there is no evidence
> to suggest psych meds are the cause of violence. Remember the
> University of Texas bell tower shooting? There were no medications
> involved prior to that incident--just one deranged, mentally ill
> student. I think someone is drawing the wrong conclusions.
Well said. This is a fact that the anti-medders ignore.
Both Mark S Probert and Marica are blatant liars.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55310
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56536
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2007/05/18/autism_misdiagnosis/
http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter119.htm
Marcia wrote:
Are you saying I "do whatsoever [my] heart desires without following
or respecting normal conventions and protocol?" I say bullshit, and
post the facts. You are creating a smear campaign on the order of Carl
Rove. Finally, Jan, have you no shame?
*I* posted. I will post the facts. Period.
Furthermore, you, Mark S Probert, Frank and the *gang* have attacked me.
What's more it has been proven you are a liar.
Frank
"Bee" <Butterf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d9514e89-8bf5-4d83...@34g2000hsz.googlegroups.com...
==============================
Yes, my spelling is sometimes "loose" but not often.
The thread actually is about Jan, every post she makes it is all about
her. Read the posts, see what they convey. Her non-defensible thoughts,
her deceitful statements since there is no rational defense for what she
writes. It is all about her thought processes as well as her
expectations that everyone must conform to her way of thinking. Her
reality. Her accusations about other people.
I am right and you best accept that thought! ;)
Frank
>
>
> Restore my points that you did not answer which are most relevant.
>
You do realize that you were asked first and then proceeded to ignore
any and all questions about your lack of facts and your false
suppositions. Here you are in full bloom hypocrisy restoring BS that you
will not address. You are not in control missy, address the questions
brought before you then expect full blown answers.
Calling you a spammer for spamming is not an attack.
Your spamming is an attack on others, and typically shows your bare ass
to all.
Jan Drew
"Mark Probert" <mark.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f89bea7f-57e9-4e9c...@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 24, 9:21 pm, Bee <Butterflies2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 24, 5:12 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Marcia was having a civil discussion and was personally attacked
> > because of her *medical condition*. She posts a rather civil and
> > restrained response and this is what you post?
>
> > What a despicable thing to say. How horrid a person you really must
> > be. You should go to whatever house of worship you visit, if you do,
> > and thank G-d you do not have to live with a mental illness.
>
> Remember---when someone puts out their personal information in the
> public view---then one needs
> to expect answers they may or may not like.
SO WHAT. THAT DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE DISGUSTING RESPONSE AND WHAT YOU
POSTED.
The post in question was
> in the
> misc. health.alternative newsgroup which I read. The poster claims
> to be taking 5 prescription
> drugs. You have proclaimed in the MHA that conventional supporters
> have the right to write
> negative comments about those of us that support alternative therapies
> or complementary therapies
> that you do not approve of.
*No, stupid, I have never said that. Do learn how to read for
comprehension. That means for understanding. Anyone has the right to
post what they believe about various topics. When it gets personal
like this, it crosses the line.*
There's another keeper.
How many, many, many, times have you personally attacked, Mark S Probert?
So much so, you have your posts. taken off google.
OT For what it is worth.
Which YOU made up.
It has to work both ways. Should the
> people not be informed about
> the possible side effects of prescription drugs? What's good for the
> goose is good for the gander.
*A personal attack based on that person's medical condition goes way
beyond any form of civil discourse. You despicably justify it.*
Yet, another keeper. How many times did you justify all the garbage posts
on
MY medical condition??
Marla Maples.
> Live with it Probert.
*I do, every day. You should, too. But, your life is not worth living.*
Read your Torah today and everyday.
Keep exposing your lies and attacks, Marla!!
Bee
>
> The thread actually is about Jan, every post she makes it is all about
> her. Read the posts, see what they convey. Her non-defensible thoughts,
> her deceitful statements since there is no rational defense for what she
> writes. It is all about her thought processes as well as her
> expectations that everyone must conform to her way of thinking. Her
> reality. Her accusations about other people.
>
> I am right and you best accept that thought! ;)
Oh Frank, you are indeed another stand up comedian waiting to be
discovered.
These newsgroups indeed attract an array of people.
No aerobics please, Frank. Bending, twisting, and stretching
information so as it
fits your agenda works in the MHA. Posts should be about the
subject matter,
not the poster unless the poster is so off of the wall -- and so off
topic, that
only shock treatment works....
Think about it Frank. I don't know you--better yet I don't care to
know you---but
really re think your posting before you put it out there and expect
someone with a Psych/Soc
background to believe your story. I see right thru it.
Jan Drew
Poor, Markey showing his dishonest again and his lying UDP.
UDP/on..
"Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:%Krwj.12497$J41....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "marcia" <des...@insight.rr.com> wrote in message
Jan Drew
http://www.southtownstar.com/news/brehm/808257,022408brehmcol.article
Thanks, Bee. So will I.
Jan Drew
"Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message news:fpr5u2$e3v$1...@aioe.org...> news:1e8wj.14293$0w....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message
>> news:fpogn8$qtj$1...@aioe.org...>>> news:MTtvj.3332$Mh2....@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote in message
>>>> news:fplobc$lmr$1...@aioe.org...>>>>> news:tAavj.3174$Mh2...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>>> Diversion Alert!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [ ]
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you no original thought?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I have plenty, they have all been posted over and over.
>>>
>>> I've seen plagarizing, pasting, and little of substance. :(
>>
>> Not surprised you cannot see the facts.
>
> Then you agree with me for once, so when are you going to post facts?
>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are also a spammer, spammers are scum. I snipped your spamming
>>>>> headers but that does not lessen your intent.
>>>> No need to attack me. Are you on drugs?
>>>
>>> Attack?
>>
>> Yes...Your attack!
>>
>> *You are also a spammer, spammers are scum. I snipped your spamming
>> headers but that does not lessen your intent.*
>>
>
> That is no attack, it is a public statement of fact.
>
>> Are you on drugs like Marcia?
>>
>
> You would say this thread is not about Marcia, so why do you make it so?
> Hypocrite.
> Drugs help Marcia, that is good.
> Drugs cannot help you, there is no cure for being idiocy.
>
>> do you feel you should be allowed to do whatsoever your heart
>>> desires without following or respecting normal conventions and
>>> protocol?
>
>
>
Already started. Feb 19, 11:22 pm
marcia
> "Bee" <Butterflies2...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Right, because some podunk reporter from "Southtown Star" is likely to
be more of an expert than people who actually *are* experts on the
subject.
And FYI to both of you, since my message was completely buried
elsewhere in this thread: I did NOT post personal information about
myself on MHA. Jan did that because it suited her agenda when logic
and reason failed her. Jan drew first blood; my posts prior to that
had been completely ON topic and civil.
Jan: My email address is NOT munged, as anyone who can read a header
will tell you.
I suspect you both watch too much Fox Noise, Bill O'Reilly, Rush
Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and etc., because your behavior mirrors theirs
to a T. You ignore every fact that doesn't fit with your preconceived
beliefs and launch personal attacks against those who hold and express
differing opinions. Remember, Jan, you were the first to sling mud,
whether you and Bee care to remember it that way or not.
And I would like to thank Mark, Frank and Stan for standing up and
championing common decency, despite their messages being lost on the
two of you. Maybe MHA still has a few rational and tolerant readers
who can appreciate their words.
marcia
> "Frank" <dawgf...@ten.hut> wrote in messagenews:fpr5u2$e3v$1...@aioe.org...
>
> > "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> >news:1e8wj.14293$0w....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>
> >> "Frank" <dawgf...@ten.hut> wrote in message
> >>news:fpogn8$qtj$1...@aioe.org...
>
> >>> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:MTtvj.3332$Mh2....@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> >>>> "Frank" <dawgf...@ten.hut> wrote in message
> >>>>news:fplobc$lmr$1...@aioe.org...
>
> >>>>> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:tAavj.3174$Mh2...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
> >>>>>> Diversion Alert!
Hardly.
Jan Drew
"Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> blathered> news:wl8wj.14350$0w....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>> Original groups restored.
>>
>> Liar.
>
> Prove otherwise, spammer.
Done, liar, insulter and harasser.
>
> Groups snipped.
Nota.
>
Please do not insult dogs.
Jan Drew
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/2b7d381fd55e424c
Feb 19 11:22 PM
Anymore LIES, Marcia?
Peter Bowditch
>
>"Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:T_rwj.12498$J41....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>>
>> Restore my points that you did not answer which are most relevant.
>>
>
>You do realize that you were asked first and then proceeded to ignore
>any and all questions about your lack of facts and your false
>suppositions. Here you are in full bloom hypocrisy restoring BS that you
>will not address. You are not in control missy, address the questions
>brought before you then expect full blown answers.
>
>Calling you a spammer for spamming is not an attack.
Jan loves to call me a spammer because of the web sites in my sig, but
she feels free to promote cancer quacks, crooked dentists, university
professors who sell cures for ALS, anti-vaccination liars who ask for
donations, etc. The word "hypocrisy" somehow lacks the necessary
strength.
>
>Your spamming is an attack on others, and typically shows your bare ass
>to all.
Please do not mention Jan's bare arse or we will all be back in
therapy.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Peter Bowditch
As there is evidence that Jan gets tight at weekends, surely there
must be times when she is looser.
Oh, you mean Jan is a loser ...
marcia
> "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> Feb 19 11:22 PM
>
> Anymore LIES, Marcia?
Irony noted. :D
Richard Schultz
: As there is evidence that Jan gets tight at weekends, surely there
: must be times when she is looser.
:
: Oh, you mean Jan is a loser ...
Actually, the correct spelling is "luser." Sorry if that spoils your fun.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
Peter Bowditch
>In misc.health.alternative Peter Bowditch <myfir...@ratbags.com> wrote:
>
>: As there is evidence that Jan gets tight at weekends, surely there
>: must be times when she is looser.
>:
>: Oh, you mean Jan is a loser ...
>
>Actually, the correct spelling is "luser." Sorry if that spoils your fun.
>
Shhhhh! I know that, but do they?
Richard Schultz
:>In misc.health.alternative Peter Bowditch <myfir...@ratbags.com> wrote:
:>: As there is evidence that Jan gets tight at weekends, surely there
:>: must be times when she is looser.
:>: Oh, you mean Jan is a loser ...
:>Actually, the correct spelling is "luser." Sorry if that spoils your fun.
: Shhhhh! I know that, but do they?
I don't know whether "they" do, but Jan Drew most certainly does not.
As we've already determined, the cardinality of the things that she
doesn't know about is aleph-one.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"A condemned man does not request egg salad for his last meal. He also
doesn't order Alka-Seltzer."
Kehlog Ahlbran, _The Profit_
Mark Probert
> On Feb 24, 2:59 pm, marcia <desi...@insight.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Who's bragging?
>
> Remember---when someone puts out their personal information in the
> public view---then one needs to expect answers they may or may not
> like.
OOPS! Non-responsive. You said "bragging". Explain why you claimed
Marcia was "bragging" and not merely mentioning a fact of her life.
The post in question was
> in the misc. health.alternative newsgroup which I read, as well as
> posted in others. The claim was that
> made was that the poster was taking 5 prescription drugs. Do you want
> everyone in the world to know what you
> are taking and why? Well, you have just announced it to the world
> what you are taking and the reason.
Debster, try to explain how that translate into "bragging".
And your friend, Mark Probert
> continued with your private medical history into yet another
> post.
No. I posted NOTHING about Marcia's private medical history. What I
know of it, she posted here. Nothing more.
Explain why you make things up as you type.
A lot of people do not realize that EVERY BODY then has
> access to their medical information. Do you not know this? That's
> why I asked you if you were bragging,
That is incorrect. Some would call it a lie. You did not *ask* if she
was bragging. You stated flat out that she was. I'll remind you:
"It looks like you have already been paid back by God...5
prescription
drugs. Now, that's something to brag about!!"
Please show me the *question* about bragging. Where are the question
marks?
because EVERY ONE in the world
> has access to your posts and everyone elses. Just because you
> subscribe to a newsgroup doesn't mean only those that prescribe to the
> newsgroup can see your posts--everyone can.
Do you think that Marcia is stupid? She isn't. She clearly knows this.
What you are doing is to divert attention from your despicable
response.
> Should people not be informed about the possible side effects of
> prescription drugs?
Red herring. No one claimed otherwise. You raise it to divert
attention.
I think so,
> just as people should be informed if an alternative therapy is
> questionable as well. I appreciated
> the poster's information that you made a derogatory comment about.
Mark Probert
Like I said, I will go with the experts at the National Threat
Assessment Center who understand and study school violence, and not
some hack reporter who is recycling second hand information.
Coleah
> "Coleah" <col...@pacifier.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e068dbeb-14ab-481c...@h25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 24, 8:21 pm, Bee <Butterflies2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 24, 5:12 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Marcia was having a civil discussion and was personally attacked
> > > because of her *medical condition*. She posts a rather civil and
> > > restrained response and this is what you post?
>
> > > What a despicable thing to say. How horrid a person you really must
> > > be. You should go to whatever house of worship you visit, if you do,
> > > and thank G-d you do not have to live with a mental illness.
>
> > public view---then one needs
> > in the
> > misc. health.alternative newsgroup which I read. The poster claims
> > to be taking 5 prescription
> > drugs. You have proclaimed in the MHA that conventional supporters
> > have the right to write
> > negative comments about those of us that support alternative therapies
> > or complementary therapies
> > people not be informed about
> > goose is good for the gander.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> That position works for you.
>
> I would enjoy learning about proven alternative measures which correct
> chemical imbalances in the brain.
>
> ========================
> Are you sure it is attributable to chemical imbalances in the first
> place?
>
> The brain is an interesting assortment of analogue and digital signals
> and has the capability of remote communication via means other than the
> typical seven senses. This is not to say that chemistry does not play a
> part in the total picture, especially since things like some capacitors
> and batteries require chemistry in order to operate properly.
>
> I say this not to confuse but only to pique interests for successful
> opportunities in other areas and not loose the overall picture when
> focused on one narrow area with limited understanding.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My interest is assumptive as to techincal causes.
I do know many who have benefitted from the use of drugs for
stablizing 'mental conditions'. These drugs are focused on as being
bad and evil, by some posting here. Since mental conditions are
indeed an acknowledged reality my expectation is to be provided with
workable and proven alternatives for such treatment.
Frank
I did not insult you.
Frank
=================================
You do not see through anything other than glasses tinted for your
personal objectives.
She was challenged on her deceitful post and never replied to the
charges, she attempted to thwart the subject by obfuscating with BS and
snipped all pertinent parts. I chose to use only a part of her post
leaving the best for last.
You don't know me and thankfully never will. My posts were on the
subject matter, I read the posts, I see what is written and I take it
from the authors perspective. Easier to understand what they are saying
as my thoughts are not in it.
Sadly you seek to defend the indefensiveable, I cut to the chase rather
than waste time.
Your coy attempts to flame me suck, don't waste your time.
Frank
This might blow you away, but I do believe there are instances where
evil either enters in or hangs on the shoulder so to speak and seeks
control, I never dismiss that possibility.
Chemistry can over ride that and limit it, as well as limit damages from
other causes. At the least it opens the door of opportunity to seek the
definitive "fix".
Frank
"Peter Bowditch" <myfir...@ratbags.com> wrote in message
news:sv05s39doponv6ft2...@4ax.com...
> "Frank" <dawg...@ten.hut> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>news:T_rwj.12498$J41....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
>>>
>>>
>>> Restore my points that you did not answer which are most relevant.
>>>
>>
>>You do realize that you were asked first and then proceeded to ignore
>>any and all questions about your lack of facts and your false
>>suppositions. Here you are in full bloom hypocrisy restoring BS that
>>you
>>will not address. You are not in control missy, address the questions
>>brought before you then expect full blown answers.
>>
>>Calling you a spammer for spamming is not an attack.
>
> Jan loves to call me a spammer because of the web sites in my sig, but
> she feels free to promote cancer quacks, crooked dentists, university
> professors who sell cures for ALS, anti-vaccination liars who ask for
> donations, etc. The word "hypocrisy" somehow lacks the necessary
> strength.
>
>>
>>Your spamming is an attack on others, and typically shows your bare
>>ass
>>to all.
>
> Please do not mention Jan's bare arse or we will all be back in
> therapy.
>
ROTFL, thankfully I was not drinking my coffee.
Frank
I'm sorry, whatever was posted then I am unfamiliar with, it most
definitely had nothing to do with this thread.
You are very circular.
Frank
There was no truth posted by you, just vain suppositions. The only thing
you could construe as truth is the shooters name, and the number of
people killed and wounded and you did a very poor effort of copying the
"truth" from those that were there.
There was a man who killed all his family save his stepson whom he shot
multiple times. (Today)
Drugs involved?
Please quit spamming this crap to non-related ng's.
Jan Drew
Could not answer the question. is noted.
Frank
Brilliant!! You "noted" that there were no lies! EXCEPTIONAL!
OUTSTANDING! KUDO'S!
A FLASH of BRILLIANCE!
Maybe you should quit while you are ahead?