2009 ASC Awards
Rocky
ASC Awards. The volume of stories posted to the newsgroup has been
steadily declining for years. This past year, other than a brief
resurgence of both TOS and AOS stories around the release date of the
latest Star Trek movie, the number of stories posted has hit an all
time low. More important (and disappointing) is the lack of feedback
posted to the newsgroup when a story *does* appear. As the awards are
all about feedback, we do not feel that it is feasible to hold them
this year.
As the official fic year of 2009 does not end until January 31, there
is a slight possibility that a major turnaround in the final month
would result in having the awards after all. But it would have to be a
truly MAJOR change in posting behavior and patterns.
For those of you who did post stories during 2009, they will be
included together with the ones from 2010 should we decide to continue
(if the situation improves) next year.
Again, we are very sorry to say that the 2009 awards will not take
place. We have been skirting such a decision for a long time now and
unfortunately the time has come when it can no longer be avoided.
Thanks to all of you who have continued to contribute to the newsgroup
as writers and readers. I know you share with me the hope that the ASC
will experience a comeback.
Rocky
ASC Awards Coordinator
Stephen
ASC Technical Guru
vanhunks
> It is with deep regret that I am announcing that there will be no 2009
> ASC Awards. The volume of stories posted to the newsgroup has been
> steadily declining for years. This past year, other than a brief
> resurgence of both TOS and AOS stories around the release date of the
> latest Star Trek movie, the number of stories posted has hit an all
> time low. More important (and disappointing) is the lack of feedback
> posted to the newsgroup when a story *does* appear. As the awards are
> all about feedback, we do not feel that it is feasible to hold them
> this year.
>
Oh, Rocky! This has got to be the saddest announcement of my freshly
brewed new year. I am indeed very, very sorry that this has come to an
end. I think in everyone's mind there was always the hope that
somehow, someday, sometime, we'll have a glimpse of the golden days of
this group and this particular contest format. I've always enjoyed
posting here, and have been an active poster since 1998.
Perhaps a different format might be considered, but always, that would
depend on the posting and feedback frequency. I find it almost uncanny
that TOS which ended as a series way back when fans contriubuted to
print zines, stories for this fandom still continuing long after the
show has ended. Although, I must add, many writers have meandered to
other fandoms in other TV series and movies and that's most likely
where they are the most productive. In the J/C fandom, it's as strong
as ever it was in every year since the show ended, but those multitude
of stories are not seen here.
Having said that, I want to take the opportunity to thank all the
moderators of this group who have done stellar work over the last ten
years since I've posted here in organising the ASC awards and the
awards dinners every year.
vanhunks
Rocky
not getting posted to the newsgroup. The lack of feedback is an even
bigger problem. And since awards are totally dependent on fan
participation, well, you see what the problem is. Hopefully this will
be just a one-year blip.
And it goes without saying (or maybe I should say it :-)), it's only
the awards which are being shelved. The newsgroup itself isn't going
anywhere.
-Rocky
Gojirob
While not wholly unexpected, this still breaks my heart. Thank you for
all your efforts, and I dearly hope this is just a one year blip. I
might suggest that those with series who have posted here make a 2009
listing of stories and post that, just for the edification of what
readers we do have. It makes me sad that I was away for four years,
but I'd rather come back to a declining ASC than most sites on the
rise.
'Goji' Rob Morris
Gamin
> It is with deep regret that I am announcing that there will be no 2009
> ASC Awards. The volume of stories posted to the newsgroup has been
> steadily declining for years. This past year, other than a brief
> resurgence of both TOS and AOS stories around the release date of the
> latest Star Trek movie, the number of stories posted has hit an all
> time low. More important (and disappointing) is the lack of feedback
> posted to the newsgroup when a story *does* appear. As the awards are
> all about feedback, we do not feel that it is feasible to hold them
> this year.
Oh, well, this is just peachy. I made an *extra effort* to *post*
some things this year so I would have something eligible (and people
still reading the group would have something to read) and now there's
*no awards*? The ASC Awards has, for the last few years, been the
only time I actually *got comments*, so I was looking forward to it.
Not a reflection on Stephen or Rocky or anybody else who does the
awards and the maintaining of the group and so forth, but DANG, this
is frustrating. And I can't be the only writer who will feel this
way.
I don't know about anybody else, but since I wasn't getting any
feedback *at the time I posted my stories*, this pretty much removes
any incentive *I* had for posting them here.
Gamin, just venting in response to the situation
Philippe de la Matraque
"Rocky" <rocky...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6c8c16f4-c5f7-415c...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
> It is with deep regret that I am announcing that there will be no 2009
> ASC Awards. The volume of stories posted to the newsgroup has been
> steadily declining for years. This past year, other than a brief
> resurgence of both TOS and AOS stories around the release date of the
> latest Star Trek movie, the number of stories posted has hit an all
> time low. More important (and disappointing) is the lack of feedback
> posted to the newsgroup when a story *does* appear. As the awards are
> all about feedback, we do not feel that it is feasible to hold them
> this year.
>
> As the official fic year of 2009 does not end until January 31, there
> is a slight possibility that a major turnaround in the final month
> would result in having the awards after all. But it would have to be a
> truly MAJOR change in posting behavior and patterns.
I am very sorry to hear this. Like Gamon, I get the majority of my feedback
from the awards rather than during the year as I maybe post a chapter or 2
of Alien Us. But I'm also Gabrielle Lawson and the awards were what kept me
going during some very bleak times in my life. They gave me new inspiration
by the feedback I received. When I posted my first story here (If It's Not
One Thing....), I had no idea what to expect. It was great. I got lots of
feedback and I won an award. Before the awards, I didn't know if I had any
other stories in me. Oswiecim came from those awards. It sparked my need
to write and a simple What If, put to a friend brought that story in to
existence.
Please, before you make this decision, give us the data. How many stories
in each series? I wouldn't throw in the 2009 towel based on feedback as a
lot of reader probably save their feedback for the awards. I usually do. I
was fairly active after AOS began but then lost my hard drive and lots of
feedback that I'd saved over a year. I became a lurker wanna be for awhile
but I'm resigned to the fate of my drive now and ready to move on. I have
posted a new chapter of Alien Us and while it hasn't gotten any reviews
here, I'm thinking it might have gotten one or two during awards.
How about giving us the month to see if we can reach some of those other
places where Trek fanfic is written and invite some of those writers to ASC.
This is a worthy list and those Awards are a beacon of light on the
internet. I based the Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards (for LOTR) around them
because they were the fairest, most postitive awards I'd ever seen. Other
LOTR awards were using judges (subjective) and short-lists (unfair) to
decide which story is best, which gives 99% of the stories no chance at all.
At ASC, every story has an equal chance of getting a vote and the votes are
worth soemthing even if they don't produce an award. They aren't just a
radio button or checkbox on a form. They are feedback. I gave up admining
the MEFAs when I got married but they are still going strong based on this
system. Please don't let even one year of ASC's awards fail until ASC
fails, heaven forbid.
And if I thought there was even a remote possibility that I could finish
Alien Us in one month to save these Awards I'd give it a go. But seeing as
one story probably won't make the difference, and I can barely get a chapter
out in 6 months, I'll have to think this won't work.
What about some challenges? Spark some writing.
But, do, please, give us the data. How many stories in each series? And
maybe a virtual show of hands? How many plan to participate as readers and
reviewers (voters) in the Awards if they should go on?
I'll raise our collective hand (Philippe and Gabrielle). I'll read some
ENT, DS9, and AOS, and sometimes I get surprised by a good TNG.
Philippe de la Matraque aka Gabrielle Lawson
Rocky
<pdelamatra...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I am very sorry to hear this. Like Gamon, I get the majority of my feedback
> from the awards rather than during the year as I maybe post a chapter or 2
> of Alien Us. But I'm also Gabrielle Lawson and the awards were what kept me
> going during some very bleak times in my life. They gave me new inspiration
> by the feedback I received. When I posted my first story here (If It's Not
> One Thing....), I had no idea what to expect. It was great. I got lots of
> feedback and I won an award. Before the awards, I didn't know if I had any
> other stories in me. Oswiecim came from those awards. It sparked my need
> to write and a simple What If, put to a friend brought that story in to
> existence.
Gabrielle, no one is happy about the situation, least of all me. There
are basically two issues which led to the decision to cancel awards
this year:1) the increasingly small number of stories posted, and 2)
non-existent feedback when a story *is* posted.
TOS/AOS are actually doing ok as far as the numbers of posted stories
are concerned. There have been 50 TOS, and 32 TOS for a total of 82
stories altogether. But, that is less than half of the previous year's
totals. VOY on the other hand has a total of just 9 stories. I don't
have the numbers for TNG, DS9 or ENT at present (other people handle
the SoS Maintainer duties for those series) but I know that they too
are very low. (I will post the numbers for those series when I get
them).
The lack of feedback is a bigger problem. Over the past year, it has
become unusual for a posted story to receive more than one comment;
often, stories receive no feedback whatsoever. And as you noted, it's
often fb, knowing that someone out there appreciates your efforts,
which keeps a writer writing. Unfortunately, the opposite effect is
also true. Without feedback, an author might very well decide it's not
worth continuing to post to ASC.
>
> Please, before you make this decision, give us the data. How many stories
> in each series? I wouldn't throw in the 2009 towel based on feedback as a
> lot of reader probably save their feedback for the awards. I usually do. I
> was fairly active after AOS began but then lost my hard drive and lots of
> feedback that I'd saved over a year. I became a lurker wanna be for awhile
> but I'm resigned to the fate of my drive now and ready to move on. I have
> posted a new chapter of Alien Us and while it hasn't gotten any reviews
> here, I'm thinking it might have gotten one or two during awards.
That's the point I'm trying to make--I don't think there *are* any
readers out there who are saving their feedback for awards. We simply
don't get brand new readers come awards time or people who lurk all
year and suddenly come out of the woodwork. It's the same folks who
are active on the newsgroup during the year, posting their own stories
and/or sending fb to other authors, who also make an effort during the
awards. For the past few years during awards, there have been one or
two individuals who have made a heroic effort to read and comment on
as many stories as possible in as many series as possible (stepping
outside their own usual reading habits in some cases). And they have
been the ones who have 'carried' awards, i.e. made it appear that yes,
the awards and by extension the ASC are still robust, still relevant
in the online world of fic.
We had 25 registered voters for last year's awards. How many of those
actually commented on a story? Less than 10. And less than half of
those commented on more than one single author's work. Three people
were responsible for the overwhelming majority of comments during the
entire awards period. Three. There were a number of days during the
awards when there was no comment digest, simply because there were no
comments posted over a 24 hour period.
And you know, over time people who were once the mainstays of the ASC
and of the awards eventually drift away from the newsgroup; some
continue to write and just find it better or more rewarding to post
elsewhere, others leave Trek entirely and go on to other fandoms, and
some simply get swallowed up by RL and other demands on their time.
Whatever the reason, people leave. And that's fine. No one signs up
for a lifetime of commitment to reading and fb'ing Trek stories on
ASC. Of the people active on the newsgroup 10 years ago, 5 years ago,
even 2 years ago, how many are still there now? In the past when this
has happened, new people stepped forward to start posting stories and
fb and so the newsgroup continued as it always had. But we no longer
have an influx of newcomers. People leave, and no one is taking their
place. We haven't had a Best New Author award in years. We haven't had
a Best Series Author, or even Alara Rogers Best Author. This is why
the newsgroup has faded, and is continuing to fade. We need new blood.
What's true for the newsgroup overall is even more true for the
awards. The awards are *completely* dependent on reader participation.
Without that, we have nothing. Stephen and I can do all the
preliminary stuff for awards. We make the final story lists, set up
categories, set up the web ballots, make the posts telling people how
to vote and where to link to the stories. And then we have to sit back
and wait. We wait for people to start reading. We wait for the
comments to start coming in. In the meantime, we do comment on stories
ourselves, we try to encourage other people in other corners of the
internet to come over to ASC and read and take the time to comment.
But we can't make people participate. We have over the years
experimented with holding awards at different times of the year, for
different durations, everything and anything we can think of to try to
encourage more people to join in. But nothing has been working.
Instead, every year we see the numbers dwindle even more. Fewer
stories, fewer authors, fewer and fewer categories (last year multiple
series together made up a single category of stories!), and fewer and
fewer people who send fb during the year, let alone during the awards.
It hurts to say it, but it's true.
I'm sorry for the authors who feel cheated by the cancellation of
awards. I also look forward to the comments I get during that time.
Unfortunately, I think the possibility of "what if we held an awards
and no one showed up" is far too great. Sometimes, you have to cut
your losses, go out on a high note as opposed to just watching
something fade away completely.
I want to make it perfectly clear that I'm not pointing any fingers at
anyone here for not fb'ing enough, or not posting enough stories. We
all do what we want/need/are capable of doing.
>
> How about giving us the month to see if we can reach some of those other
> places where Trek fanfic is written and invite some of those writers to ASC.
> This is a worthy list and those Awards are a beacon of light on the
> internet. I based the Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards (for LOTR) around them
> because they were the fairest, most postitive awards I'd ever seen. Other
> LOTR awards were using judges (subjective) and short-lists (unfair) to
> decide which story is best, which gives 99% of the stories no chance at all.
> At ASC, every story has an equal chance of getting a vote and the votes are
> worth soemthing even if they don't produce an award. They aren't just a
> radio button or checkbox on a form. They are feedback. I gave up admining
> the MEFAs when I got married but they are still going strong based on this
> system. Please don't let even one year of ASC's awards fail until ASC
> fails, heaven forbid.
As I stated in my original post on this topic, if January shows a
MAJOR turnaround in newsgroup behavior, meaning we not only get more
stories but more importantly more feedback on posted stories, we will
reinstate the 2009 awards. (And folks, not just more TOS/AOS stories,
but TNG and DS9 and VOY and ENT). Even if we don't, the 2009 stories
will not vanish into the ether. We *will* include them together with
the fic from 2010 (assuming this is just a one year blip and we are
able to resume awards the following year).
I sincerely hope you are successful in your campaign.
>
> What about some challenges? Spark some writing.
Go ahead. And in fact, I'll toss one out right now. How about a
challenge dealing with hair? We have bald captains, captains with
buns, captains with facial hair, beehives... How does hair affect your
ability to command? To be an engineer, a yeoman, or a pilot or a
redshirt? What happens when aliens attack on a bad hair day?
-Rocky
Philippe de la Matraque
I figured AOS espeically would be doing fine. There was such a rush of them
at the beginning. And I was reading then and posting fb which I'd
unfortunately forget during the awards time. Which is why I tried a system
of recording my fb in a document while the story is fresh in my mind and
holding them until Awards time. Which I obviously didn't do. Then my hard
drive went...... Oh that was hard for me to get over.
Anyway, 9 is low and I don't feel that DS9 or ENT have many though I haven't
counted. So you've got a point there.
>The lack of feedback is a bigger problem. Over the past year, it has
become unusual for a posted story to receive more than one comment;
often, stories receive no feedback whatsoever. And as you noted, it's
often fb, knowing that someone out there appreciates your efforts,
which keeps a writer writing. Unfortunately, the opposite effect is
also true. Without feedback, an author might very well decide it's not
worth continuing to post to ASC.
Well, I for one write anyway, though fb does help. It's good to know someone
is actually bothering with my 1-in-6-months chapters. But then, no one has
commented on the posting of Chapter 15 and I'm still writing Chapter 16. I
got fb from other places as soon as I posted anyway. And I do recommend
that to anyone out there. Post here. Post at fanfiction.net, post to your
own site. It's okay! Just post here.
> Please, before you make this decision, give us the data. How many stories
> in each series? I wouldn't throw in the 2009 towel based on feedback as a
> lot of reader probably save their feedback for the awards. I usually
> do.....
>That's the point I'm trying to make--I don't think there *are* any
readers out there who are saving their feedback for awards. We simply
don't get brand new readers come awards time or people who lurk all
year and suddenly come out of the woodwork. It's the same folks who
are active on the newsgroup during the year, posting their own stories
and/or sending fb to other authors, who also make an effort during the
awards. For the past few years during awards, there have been one or
two individuals who have made a heroic effort to read and comment on
as many stories as possible in as many series as possible (stepping
outside their own usual reading habits in some cases). And they have
been the ones who have 'carried' awards, i.e. made it appear that yes,
the awards and by extension the ASC are still robust, still relevant
in the online world of fic.
Well, that is sad. Where are all our new folks we got with AOS? Anyone
willing to read outside that series? What about pure readers? Do we have
non-writing readers out there anymore? At the MEFAs, they ask everyone to
set a reviewer goal. They don't hold you to it, but they do get a lot of
comments.
>We had 25 registered voters for last year's awards. How many of those
actually commented on a story? Less than 10. And less than half of
those commented on more than one single author's work. Three people
were responsible for the overwhelming majority of comments during the
entire awards period. Three. There were a number of days during the
awards when there was no comment digest, simply because there were no
comments posted over a 24 hour period.
Three people basically decided everything. I think I want to cry.
>And you know, over time people who were once the mainstays of the ASC
and of the awards eventually drift away from the newsgroup; some
continue to write and just find it better or more rewarding to post
elsewhere, others leave Trek entirely and go on to other fandoms, and
some simply get swallowed up by RL and other demands on their time.
Whatever the reason, people leave. And that's fine. No one signs up
for a lifetime of commitment to reading and fb'ing Trek stories on
ASC. Of the people active on the newsgroup 10 years ago, 5 years ago,
even 2 years ago, how many are still there now? In the past when this
has happened, new people stepped forward to start posting stories and
fb and so the newsgroup continued as it always had. But we no longer
have an influx of newcomers. People leave, and no one is taking their
place. We haven't had a Best New Author award in years. We haven't had
a Best Series Author, or even Alara Rogers Best Author. This is why
the newsgroup has faded, and is continuing to fade. We need new blood.
Sadly, I never won either the Best New Author or Best Author. Sigh. Ah
well. I do hope we get some new blood. But I also want to bring up
something I think I brought up a while back. Perhaps we need to consider
moving from a newsgroup to a YahooGroup or some similar setup. Newsgroups
are an older part of the internet. Many email clients won't even do
newsgroups anymore (Outlook Express thankfully does, though it only lets me
post from one address. Netscape just kept getting goofy on me.). Younger
folks may not even know what to do with a newsgroup. Let's find a medium
that works on Smartphones and links to Facebook or something similar. Maybe
we need to change with the times.
(snipped for brevity)
Well, since my main circles are ENT and DS9 that's where I put out my call
first. If I thought there was a way to reach every Trek writer in
fanfiction.net, I'd do it. I put a request in 2 groups on Trekspace. I
joined Trek Writers Guild, submitted my stories for their archive (through
links to my site) and put the call in there. I'm hoping.
> What about some challenges? Spark some writing.
>Go ahead. And in fact, I'll toss one out right now. How about a
challenge dealing with hair? We have bald captains, captains with
buns, captains with facial hair, beehives... How does hair affect your
ability to command? To be an engineer, a yeoman, or a pilot or a
redshirt? What happens when aliens attack on a bad hair day?
Oh, if I could only write comedy.... I'm going to copy that to my
Challenges thread for easy finding by others.
--Gabrielle
Gamin
in the fic situation...
On Jan 5, 4:43 pm, "Philippe de la Matraque"
<pdelamatra...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >That's the point I'm trying to make--I don't think there *are* any
>
> readers out there who are saving their feedback for awards. We simply
> don't get brand new readers come awards time or people who lurk all
> year and suddenly come out of the woodwork.
I can only say that that's exactly what happened to *me* the last
time *I* had any award-eligible fic posted here--nobody posted fb at
the time of the stories' original posting, but I got several comments
in the awards from people whom I didn't even know had read it. So I
look forward to the awards, even if I don't get enough FB to place
3rd, which hasn't happened since the year I posted a whole bunch of
short fics.
> >We had 25 registered voters for last year's awards. How many of those
>
> actually commented on a story? Less than 10. And less than half of
> those commented on more than one single author's work. Three people
> were responsible for the overwhelming majority of comments during the
> entire awards period. Three. There were a number of days during the
> awards when there was no comment digest, simply because there were no
> comments posted over a 24 hour period.
>
> Three people basically decided everything. I think I want to cry.
>
The sadder part is that I think I was one of the three. And I
don't generally comment on non-TOS/AOS work because I just frankly
don't feel qualified; I haven't written anything else but that one TOS/
VOY challenge crossover thing, and I haven't even *seen* most of DS9
and ENT (and what I saw, I didn't like). If I'd known there were so
few people making comments of any length, I might have given some of
the others a try. *feels guilty*
> Sadly, I never won either the Best New Author or Best Author. Sigh.
Me neither, but for most of the time I was eligible, there were
so *many* people writing fic that appeared on the award ballots that I
didn't really expect to. I got some votes in that category, though,
so that was about the best I ever expected.
Ah
> well. I do hope we get some new blood. But I also want to bring up
> something I think I brought up a while back. Perhaps we need to consider
> moving from a newsgroup to a YahooGroup or some similar setup. Newsgroups
> are an older part of the internet. Many email clients won't even do
> newsgroups anymore (Outlook Express thankfully does, though it only lets me
> post from one address. Netscape just kept getting goofy on me.). Younger
> folks may not even know what to do with a newsgroup. Let's find a medium
> that works on Smartphones and links to Facebook or something similar. Maybe
> we need to change with the times.
FWIW, I own and participate in a number of Yahoo groups and have
also visited some of the groups on Facebook (yes, I have a page there
if anybody wants to friend me). I don't see *how* one would post fic
there as you're limited to little paragraph-sized posts everywhere on
the site except (1) the "My notes" section of your profile and (2) the
"messages" section, which is for private messages. You still will
have to divide larger stories into chunks on Yahoo groups, but at
least it allows a little more posting space. My observation is that
most of the groups there are about as low-traffic as this one with
less actual stories posted, but then the groups I belong to there are,
with few exceptions, TOS-specific (focusing on TOS, TAS and the first
6 movies with generally no material from the later shows at all,
though some do allow AOS).
> (snipped for brevity)
Please don't let even one year of ASC's awards fail until ASC
> > fails, heaven forbid.
>
Hear, hear.
> As I stated in my original post on this topic, if January shows a
> MAJOR turnaround in newsgroup behavior, meaning we not only get more
> stories but more importantly more feedback on posted stories, we will
> reinstate the 2009 awards. (And folks, not just more TOS/AOS stories,
> but TNG and DS9 and VOY and ENT). Even if we don't, the 2009 stories
> will not vanish into the ether. We *will* include them together with
> the fic from 2010 (assuming this is just a one year blip and we are
> able to resume awards the following year).
> I sincerely hope you are successful in your campaign.
>
I take it from what I've read on the list so far in this sitting
that that didn't happen.
> > What about some challenges? Spark some writing.
> >Go ahead. And in fact, I'll toss one out right now. How about a
> challenge dealing with hair? We have bald captains, captains with
> buns, captains with facial hair, beehives... How does hair affect your
> ability to command? To be an engineer, a yeoman, or a pilot or a
> redshirt? What happens when aliens attack on a bad hair day?
>
> Oh, if I could only write comedy....
Ditto--I don't know if I actually can't write it or am just
afraid to, but I've never been able to get up the nerve to write a
dedicated comedy story in all my 25+ years of writing fanfic. I have a
kind of offbeat sense of humor and would be mortified if I wrote a
story and nobody but me thought it was funny. But hopefully this
challenge will have sparked some other people's imagination by now.
Gamin, intermittent ASC participant (1999-2004, then 2008-present)who
had ironically resolved to contribute *more* (fic/discussion) this
last year