agm failed...why?
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
It has never been charged over 14.3 volts (the battery says not to go over
14.6) ok safe there.
The most my solar system can produce is 15 amps, split between 4 batteries
...ok safe there...
It has never been discharged below 11.9 volts ( I brought my whole bank
down to 11.9 just once during testing.) ...kinda pushing the limits but
still should not have killed the battery.
The AGM when chargeing, jumps up very fast to 14.2 volts but has about 1 to
5 AH of storage in it.
I am new to AGM's but was very careful not to overcharge it etc.
Is it possible that I bought a COOKED battery? When I added it to my bank
all I did was check the voltage, I did not think to put a load on it and see
what happened.
The battery is less than 6 months old.
Just as a side note...the 2 optimas that have been in the same bank and are
about 9 months older than the AGM are fine...(still close to 55AH each)
Any ideas as to what happend? I recorded voltages/ charge rates / discharge
rates etc. over the last year or so a few times a week and can not find any
spikes or voltages over 14.3 at any time.
I could have done something wrong somewhere, however I can not figure out
where.
If AGM,s are bubbled, would the voltage go up fast during chargeing but not
have any storage?
If this is the case. I think I was sold a cooked battery and will just have
to eat what I paid for it...
Thanks joe
SJC
I took it back and the dealer said they had a bad batch and replaced it.
"Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merl...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message news:mvQ8g.63$lm...@tornado.southeast.rr.com...
Bill Kaszeta / Photovoltaic Resources
Possibilities:
1. The battery was abused before you received it, stored for a long
period without proper charging, etc.
2. The Optimas are perhaps establishing the voltage balance with
the PV panel and the AGM battery is not being fully charged. The
usual rule is NOT to mix different types of batteries in parallel.
3. If you do not discharge the AGM below 11.9, how do you know
it's capacity? The rest voltage of a battery is 12.9 to 13.1 volts
depending on the specific gravity of the acid in the battery.
Fully discharged is usually defined as discharge down to
10.5 volts.
4. Has the battery ever been equalized? You may have a cell in
the battery that was initiall higher capacity than the other cells
and as a result it will be under charged when the amp-hours
into all the cells leave this one undercharged and this can
lead to the start of sulfation in the cell if not corrected by
equalization. See the battery manufacturer's recommended
equalization voltage, time and frequency.
Bill Kaszeta
Photovoltaic Resources Int'l
Tempe Arizona USA
bi...@pvri-removethis.biz
pickl...@gmail.com
It is my understanding that you DO NOT apply an equalization charge to
sealed batteries.
Bob
beemerwacker
After a year or so the thing held a charge for oh, a minute. Well, I
was tearing the thing apart anyways for the inverter and started
playing with the battery to see what I could do with it. I was able to
revive it (I use it at the cabin now to power 12 volt lights for 2 days
at a time).
I can't recommend what I did, but you can use it for clues. What I did
was use a small power pack from one of my RC planes. This particular
charger puts out 17.9 V @ 1.2 amps shorted and 14.5 v connected. The
charge tapers according the the resistance of the battery (them little
litium jobs are sensitive and will 'splode). After a day hooked up, the
charge was only 60%. I let it rest, then repeated. Now it was 75% at
rest. One more cycle, now at 100%. It now holds charge fine and will
power lights at the cabin. Obviously, this probably won't work in your
case but....
Give me a shout, I think I have an extra pack around here someplace I
can send you, Joe.
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
If you connect a small 12 volt fan up to the agm it will run for maybe a
minute then the voltage of the battery will drop like a rock well below 11
volts if you let it.
Joe
"Bill Kaszeta / Photovoltaic Resources" <kasz...@mindspring.com> wrote in
message news:4463e48f...@news.east.earthlink.net...
~~NoMad~~
"Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merl...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:mvQ8g.63$lm...@tornado.southeast.rr.com...
You probably never gave the battery a full charge when it was new. You need
to 'float' an AGM for six months to be sure of a full charge. You have let
at least one cell get low and sulphated, develop high resistance, and loose
capacity. That's the way AGM usually go...
NM
SJC
Suggestions for connecting batteries in parallel
a.. Use batteries of identical make, model, and age.
http://www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/americas0/en/config/product_info/technology/tips.html
My yellow top 34 model is just by itself and I charge it with a deep cycle charger.
Have not had any problems so far.
"Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merl...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message news:jy_8g.62$kc...@tornado.southeast.rr.com...
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
month and the voltage on the battery reads fine even after sitting for 12
hours.
I just never did a load test on it so I am not sure if it was that way when
I bought it. Now I know to load test each one from time to time.
I also know about not using different batteries in the same bank but what
started out as something just to run my ham radio gear turned into something
much bigger.
I am switching over to wet cell batteries but I really do not want to toss
out the other batteries. (I cant afford to go out and buy 600 ah of
batteries all at once.)
I pulled that battery from the bank and it is on a trickle charger to see
what happens but I think it is fubar...
Joe
George Ghio
thousand words long. (see post new pictures)
beemerwacker
running 10 watts for 5 hours now with 6 amps for a half hour. Voltage
is currently 12.37 at rest, 12.30 under load. start was your typical
12.8.
In our previous episode of "that shit won't work, you idiot", it was
able to power the 10 watts for 5 hours before getting to 11 volts - not
good at midnight at the cabin after 200 beers.
So it looks like a lower, tapered charge over a cycle of several times
does the trick. Anyone got a small dead AGM for me to try it on again?
I've still got the RC lith-ion charger at the ready.
Max
http://www.northernmichigansolar.com
http://www.kitcar.dynip.com/solarpower/
[most pages updated 5-13-06]
George Ghio
as well.
beemerwacker
your installation. :-)
Max
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
took you can find it too..
However, It was not something that you would normaly think about.
Lets see who can guess what it was.....
beemerwacker
Looks like your wires are too small. What the hell you using, like 18
gauge? That thing's like gotta be 150 degrees. Jeez, it's wonder it
didn't burn up your disconnect - I'd check that next. Gotta watch out
if your using once of those 12 volt under cab. lights too; could melt
the transformer.
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
It was 2ga wire but your close...
And thanks for the heads up on those homedepot 12 volt lights...
A month 2 late...
Burning wires and starting fires...
Joe
"beemerwacker" <43.k...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147741607.2...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
George Ghio
George Ghio
Pic 1; Shadows across panels, Insufficient support for 5 panels(supports
already sagging), Wiring exposed to damage from UV.
Pic 2; Electronics mounted directly above batteries, subjected to
corrosive atmosphere, Different types, sizes, ages batteries in series
parallel, Exhaust fan running flamable hydrogen over motor- fire hazard.
What a wank.
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
"George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
news:44695de1$1...@news.chariot.net.au...
> Let's see.
>
> Pic 1; Shadows across panels, Insufficient support for 5 panels(supports
> already sagging), Wiring exposed to damage from UV.
The shadow is from my ham radio tower and late in the evening it does cast a
shadow on them for about 15 minutes but if you would look closely at the
shadows, the sun is setting and at such an angle to the panels out put is
next to nothing anyway (sunset is really hard on PV systems)
The supports are not saging. there are 2 sets of mounts there (on the left 5
panels also 1 panel is missing) each mount supports 3 panels and I would
like you to try and make that angle sag (ever try and bend 3/4 inch angle
iron???)
Yes I do agree I need to finnish running condit even if the wires I used
are gas, oil and uv restient.
> Pic 2; Electronics mounted directly above batteries, subjected to
> corrosive atmosphere, Different types, sizes, ages batteries in series
> parallel, Exhaust fan running flamable hydrogen over motor- fire hazard.
>
The batteries are going to end up on the other side of wall in a cinder
block box, however it is not possible to create enough gassing off of 1 wet
cell battery and a PV set that can only produce 15 amps MAX inside a 12 by
16 foot shed that is well vented. As for the fans, there sealed bushless, so
where would an ignition sorce be?
All my batteries are wired in parallel. It is a bit of a pain to charge them
sometimes But buying different kinds of batteries was the only way that I
could test each kind myself.
I will be changeing over to wet cells. the optimas will end up in me and my
wifes cars.
That only leaves me out the AGM not sure what I am going to do with that
yet.
George Ghio
ends the same. A bloody great mess.
I doubt that you have a single foot of uv stable cable anywhere in your
installation.
Why is sunset "really hard" on PV systems.
Your whole installation smacks of the third world.
You claim "sunset" for pic 1 when it is clearly only mid afternoon,
given the angle of shadow across the roof. Still plenty of sun on the
panels to charge.
Look at the top edges of the five panels then the bottom edges. The
panels show a definite twist. 3/4 in angle. Undersized for the length of
span.
All your batteries are in parallel, proud of that are you? Looks like
four different sizes/types there.
And yes I have bent 3/4 in angle. It's really quite easy.
All in all, a mess.
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
> I have heard all those excuses, and more from people like you. It always
people like me?
You mean people that you feel the need to insult to try and make you feel
better about yourself?
> ends the same. A bloody great mess.
>
My bloody great mess works fine (other than a bad disconnect that killed my
AGM, ok its not doa but it was not happy)
> I doubt that you have a single foot of uv stable cable anywhere in your
> installation.
All my cable is UV stable includeing the LMR 600 ultra flex on my
transcevers.
>
> Why is sunset "really hard" on PV systems.
>
Sunset is hard on PV systems beacuse they do not work when the sun goes
down....
> Your whole installation smacks of the third world.
>
> You claim "sunset" for pic 1 when it is clearly only mid afternoon,
The shadow you see on the panels is my tower, it is due west of my panels.
Why would I make that one up?
Your still trying to make your self better than anyone else again....
> given the angle of shadow across the roof. Still plenty of sun on the
> panels to charge.
>
> Look at the top edges of the five panels then the bottom edges. The Ummm
the 2 sets of 3 panels are not at the same exact angle.
> panels show a definite twist. 3/4 in angle. Undersized for the length of
> span.
>
3/4 angle is not big enough for a 38 inch span? Funny that the manufacturer
thought it was. I guess you know more than the people that make the panels
do..
> All your batteries are in parallel, proud of that are you? Looks like
> four different sizes/types there.
>
Yes there are 3 different types there, the 2 optimas are the same, and if
you would get you head out of your ass and read why there are 3 diffent
types you would not of had to post that over again.
> And yes I have bent 3/4 in angle. It's really quite easy.
>
I want to see you bend 1/8 wall 3/4 inch angle that is 38 inches long, while
attached to 3 PV panels, without breaking a single panel and how exactly
could that happen in the real world, not in your self inflated ego?
> All in all, a mess.
>
> Joe
KI4ILB and yes I can build and repair ham radio equipment and computers.
>
wmbjk
<merl...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>"George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
>news:446a5...@news.chariot.net.au...
>> I have heard all those excuses, and more from people like you. It always
>
>people like me?
>You mean people that you feel the need to insult to try and make you feel
>better about yourself?
If you want to hear excuses, just ask Judge nitwit why he won't show
pictures of his own setup. It must be really bad if it can't stand the
light of day.
Wayne
beemerwacker
worry, I've got an overhead of Bealiba; I'll get a zoom in.
George Ghio
Merlin-7 KI4ILB wrote:
> "George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
> news:446a5...@news.chariot.net.au...
>
>>I have heard all those excuses, and more from people like you. It always
>
>
> people like me?
> You mean people that you feel the need to insult to try and make you feel
> better about yourself?
No people like you who learn nothing before starting to hand out
information.
>
>
>>ends the same. A bloody great mess.
>>
>
> My bloody great mess works fine (other than a bad disconnect that killed my
> AGM, ok its not doa but it was not happy)
I've seen worse still work. Doesn't mean a good installation. Then there
is your own admission of incorrect wire size used to the point of a
possible fire hazard
>
>
>>I doubt that you have a single foot of uv stable cable anywhere in your
>>installation.
>
> All my cable is UV stable includeing the LMR 600 ultra flex on my
> transcevers.
>
>>Why is sunset "really hard" on PV systems.
>>
>
> Sunset is hard on PV systems beacuse they do not work when the sun goes
> down....
Can't be "really hard" if there is no work being done. Duh.
>
>>Your whole installation smacks of the third world.
>>
>>You claim "sunset" for pic 1 when it is clearly only mid afternoon,
>
> The shadow you see on the panels is my tower, it is due west of my panels.
> Why would I make that one up?
> Your still trying to make your self better than anyone else again....
Shadow is shadow and affects panel output. Lift your game.
>
>
>>given the angle of shadow across the roof. Still plenty of sun on the
>>panels to charge.
>>
>>Look at the top edges of the five panels then the bottom edges. The Ummm
>
> the 2 sets of 3 panels are not at the same exact angle.
Yes that is evident, as is the fact that the top and bottom edges are
not parallel.
>
>
>>panels show a definite twist. 3/4 in angle. Undersized for the length of
>>span.
>>
>
> 3/4 angle is not big enough for a 38 inch span? Funny that the manufacturer
> thought it was. I guess you know more than the people that make the panels
> do..
I do.
>
>
>>All your batteries are in parallel, proud of that are you? Looks like
>>four different sizes/types there.
>>
>
> Yes there are 3 different types there, the 2 optimas are the same, and if
> you would get you head out of your ass and read why there are 3 diffent
> types you would not of had to post that over again.
>
>
>>And yes I have bent 3/4 in angle. It's really quite easy.
>>
>
> I want to see you bend 1/8 wall 3/4 inch angle that is 38 inches long, while
> attached to 3 PV panels, without breaking a single panel and how exactly
> could that happen in the real world, not in your self inflated ego?
Well, they're you panels and investment.
George Ghio
system.
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
The IR picture of tha bank?
If so your a bigger idiot than I thought.
The high and low temps are on the pictures.
The wire was less than 10F higher in temp than the rest.
Also It was not thew wrong size wire for the amp load that caused the
problem. I never said what it was.
Just for you However I will tell... I had a bad battery disconect on that
battery.
> I've seen worse still work. Doesn't mean a good installation. Then there
> is your own admission of incorrect wire size used to the point of a
> possible fire hazard
> >
Go ahead george make me laugh some more.
I would love to hear your insite on RF grounding systems also.
Joe
George Ghio
the evidence won't be staring people in the face.
Tony Wesley
George Ghio wrote:
> Or you could ask runaway wayne why he can't supply real numbers for his
> system.
George, that's your nickname.
"I will not discuss this topic with you simply because you have not
exhibited any ability in the so called design of your own system."
-- George Ghio
For some reason, Monty Python and The Search for the Holy Grail come to
mind.
Sir Robin, to be specific. "...and bravely he did run away..."
Tony Wesley
George Ghio wrote:
> I suggest you do a runner as per wayne and pull the pics. At least then
> the evidence won't be staring people in the face.
Where the picture and web site of your system??
Bravely does Sir George run away.
wmbjk
wrote:
>I suggest you do a runner as per wayne and pull the pics. At least then
>the evidence won't be staring people in the face.
Some of my pics http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/17photos.htm
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/images/main/solar%20system800.jpg
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/images/main/inverter_half.jpg
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/images/main/wind%20and%20sun.jpg
etc., etc.
The only time grumpy Grorge's pics show up on Usenet is in his
nightmares.
Wayne
wmbjk
<merl...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>George I have no idea of what your talking about in this line???
Don't waste your time explaining anything to Grorge. If you check the
archives you'll find that he's ragged on just about everybody at one
time or another. He never admits when he's wrong, and never backs down
from his criticisms whether petty or insane. Whenever he's cornered
with evidence of poor practice on his own setup, he simply claims that
whatever *he's* doing is OK so long as it works. Hypocritically, he
never accepts that reasoning from anyone else. But the proof is in the
pudding - he's ashamed of his own installation, has failed at solar
"consulting", and is now trying to find Chinese who can be fooled into
thinking that he's capable of editing their web sites. The business
plan apparently includes recruiting customers too dumb to notice that
Grorge has never managed to afford a site of his own, can't even edit
his own ads, and has a long Usenet history of blunders and
self-destructive behavior. Should he ever find anyone that helpless,
he'll probably bungle their job and then treat <snorf> us to one of
his "stories" about how the *customer* was a jerk.
Wayne
George Ghio
Wayne had a web site that was totally bereft of any meaningful numbers.
I called him on it.
He then said that if just one other person said that his numbers did not
add up he would pull the site.
Someone (I suspect it was wayne using one of his personas) posted that
wayne's numbers did not add up.
Wayne used this as an excuse to pull his site, in short he ran away,
he's been running ever since. Hence the nick name.
So you see, you are mistaken.
George Ghio
There is a reason for me to subvert the three stage charging of my reg.
It is so simple that even a simpleton such as yourself could find it
with ten minutes reading.
You can't do it though can you. The big bad design copier is just a fraud.
wmbjk
wrote:
>So you see, you are mistaken.
My site has always been available to anyone interested.
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/solar30.htm
Now, *why* can't we see photos of your setup given that you're always
trying to invent fault with other's photos? I'm thinking that a whole
bunch of stuff about your place is just as pathetic as your editing
"business". And that you're a gutless blowhard who's too small to
admit the difference between what you are, and what you've claimed to
be.
Wayne
beemerwacker
I just checked out your site. Great information! I like the description
of the appliances - creating energy is pointless unless you use it
wisely. Good job, man.
Max
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
But you are an expert on solar systems?
Something smells here...
Joe
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
dead.....
"Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merl...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2MOag.2584$JW5....@southeast.rr.com...
George Ghio
wmbjk
<merl...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>Sorry They list adresses different down there. But bealiva is kinda
>dead.....
Look for the power lines. He won't say how far away they are, so it's
probably less than a mile. Also look for all the usual signs of
camera-shyness, such as derelict vehicles, appliances, batteries, and
propane bottles. Don't forget his recommendation for 300k Ohms of
nichrome wire for generator field-control. That much wire might be
visible from a long way off. :-)
Wayne
do...@xrexxagmxf.usenet.us.com
> I did find the problem with the AGM.. If you can look at the IR pictures I
> took you can find it too..
> However, It was not something that you would normaly think about.
> Lets see who can guess what it was.....
I don't see a link to the pictures on usenet. Is this being posted via
some forum? What is an http link to the pictures?
--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
Joe
<do...@XReXXagmXf.usenet.us.com> wrote in message
news:e4j1vp$l1c$2...@blue.rahul.net...
George Ghio
Have a look at;
<http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j103/GGhio/>
Yours and mine. Two control panels. Side by side. Says it all really.
Ya all have a nice day now.
beemerwacker
pretty covers so now you need to take them off so we can see the ghetto
wires behind it.
George Ghio
the concrete and stone wall. But then you can keep checking back to see
more of my building efforts.
Ya all have a nice day now. And one day you might show us your god awful
mess.
Solar Flare
about equipment that isn't really hooked up.
wmjoff (sarc)...LOL
"George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
news:446da...@news.chariot.net.au...
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
I would really like to see a picture of your battery bank, really...not
being mean or any thing.
I do like the way your set up looks. However, I will not place all my
wiring in conduit until I know how far I am going with this. What started
out as 45 watts of panels and 2 optima batteries to run my ham gear in an
emergency, sky warn etc. Has ended up having to switch to wet cell
batteries, 315 watts of panels and a 30 amp charge controller (so far).
I do not want to run all the conduit and wiring just to change it all in 9
months.
My panels will most likely end up on my roof however I need to replace the
shingles on it in the next few years, so I do not want to place them on the
roof just to remove them and replace them again.
For the $1,800 I have spent on my system so far I think I did well.
Yes I am still learning. I never claimed to be an expert. I do know however
what works for a limited amount of money. You see George some of us can only
spend money on PV a little at a time for different reasons. My wife has had
cancer twice and the 2nd time we had no insurance so I had to refinance my
home just to pay the medical bills. Most of us here are in the same boat,
more or less. If we were not we would simply buy a prepackaged system and
hook it up.
All of us here are more that willing to hear your ideas on things but you
are no help at all when you just state that our systems suck.
I think that I can state from all of us that we would honestly listen to
your input if you did not feel the need to insult everyone here.
If you really do know a better way of doing something why not just help
them ?
I myself find that I feel better inside when I help someone vs.. when I
insult someone. life is too short for that kind of stuff.
I also want to say that I am sorry for some of my posts directed at you. I
have no ill will to you or any one else here.
Joe
"George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
news:446da...@news.chariot.net.au...
wmbjk
wrote:
>That smell is your installation.
>Have a look at;
<http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j103/GGhio/>
>Yours and mine. Two control panels. Side by side. Says it all really.
Sure, it says that you're desperate to convince readers to ignore
reality.
>Even then there is very little to see as everything is in conduit inside
>the concrete and stone wall.
Who do you think you're fooling? It's obvious that you have photos and
could post them. But you won't because they're embarrassing and would
show that your place isn't up to the BS hype you've spouted. For
instance, you've claimed that the building is a work of art. But the
woodwork in your photo looks like something cranked out by a beginner
the day after he got a router for Christmas. If that's art then the
stuff those bare-oak stores sell belongs in the Louvre. Admit it, if
that same photo had been posted by someone who'd corrected your
bungling, then you'd have written several paragraphs dissing the
crummy joinery and howling about how the thing had been finished
without sanding out the router tracks.
> But then you can keep checking back to see
>more of my building efforts.
Twenty years of building, and one measly photo? Should we expect the
next "effort" in 2026? Instead, why not list the blunders you've
posted to these groups, and illustrate them with an equal number of
photos. For example, you could highlight your 2.5V per cell float
recommendation with a picture of all those expired batteries. Some
folks might enjoy seeing the infamous plug-in 150A rheostat, while I'd
like an overhead shot of the 300k wire. Does it enclose the property
like a giant bird cage?
Wayne
wmbjk
<merl...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
> All of us here are more that willing to hear your ideas on things but you
>are no help at all when you just state that our systems suck.
>
> I think that I can state from all of us that we would honestly listen to
>your input if you did not feel the need to insult everyone here.
Speak for yourself. The only interest I have in Grorge's opinion is
how far it can be kicked. Others simply killfile him.
> If you really do know a better way of doing something why not just help
>them ?
Because he *doesn't* know any better ways, and in fact holds the
record here for posting mistakes and bad advice. That leads to
corrections which he can't handle. Perhaps you corrected him in the
past, or maybe he thought you were too chummy with someone who'd
corrected him. Whatever, it's what he's always done here. Don't sweat
being on his attack-list, you're in good company.
Wayne
Merlin-7 KI4ILB
I think that George has run away more people trying to learn about home
brew solar systems than all of us could help.
I do not remember any of us saying that we were experts, we only stated
what we had and what works for us.
As I said before, most of us are working on a low budget so we learn from
each other what we can do for the most bang for the buck.
I have always stated here ...what does not work, from trial and error on
my part.
I do not take shame in something I tried and it has failed... I do however
post what I did and why I think it failed so the next guy does not waste
money on something that does not work.
For instance...
you can mix optima batteries with wet cell batteries....
You can not mix any AGM's with any thing but AGM's
I do like to go against the grain and try different combinations to see how
far you can push the envelope. If no one did that ...well enough said....
I also over kill on everything. If it calls for 6ga wire I will use 4ga and
so on.
Joe
"wmbjk" <wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:pahs62hrn6hf8eeh4...@4ax.com...
Solar Flare
some desert rat, know-it-all, asshole, without a life, dog you for
three or four years online. It becomes a conditioned response.
"Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merl...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7mtbg.1482$Lg....@tornado.southeast.rr.com...
beemerwacker
failed.......
George Ghio
Merlin-7 KI4ILB wrote:
> George...
> I would really like to see a picture of your battery bank, really...not
> being mean or any thing.
I'm sorry but I don't have a pic of my battery bank. This is because I'm
not all that big on taking photos of everything. Nor do I have a
digital camera, only film at this time.
>
> I do like the way your set up looks. However, I will not place all my
> wiring in conduit until I know how far I am going with this. What started
> out as 45 watts of panels and 2 optima batteries to run my ham gear in an
> emergency, sky warn etc. Has ended up having to switch to wet cell
> batteries, 315 watts of panels and a 30 amp charge controller (so far).
> I do not want to run all the conduit and wiring just to change it all in 9
> months.
Ok, that's the problem. Your solution is to do an energy audit of what
you want to run. Every item, the watts it draws and the time it will run
for a day.
This will give you your watt hours daily load.
Having a daily load will allow you to work out the size of the system
required for your ultimate needs.
You have stated elsewhere that you like to push the envelope. What you
have in fact done is gone to push the envelope only to find that it has
already been pushed. The result is you fall down.
Before you can push the envelope you will need to find the boundary. The
one thing you can believe is that the envelope has been pushed, and that
is a lot further than most people realise.
Knowing what you need to do the job will allow you to make the right
decision at every step. Making the right decisions allows you to build
your system in a logical progression. My advice is to just bite the
bullet and build the system you need. This is not always financially
possible.
> My panels will most likely end up on my roof however I need to replace the
> shingles on it in the next few years, so I do not want to place them on the
> roof just to remove them and replace them again.
> For the $1,800 I have spent on my system so far I think I did well.
If you are willing to accept an email I will send you a plans for a very
nice panel rack that can be adapted to many mounting specs. It allows
for seasonal adjustment(altitude) is cheap to build and robust.
>
> Yes I am still learning. I never claimed to be an expert. I do know however
> what works for a limited amount of money. You see George some of us can only
> spend money on PV a little at a time for different reasons. My wife has had
> cancer twice and the 2nd time we had no insurance so I had to refinance my
> home just to pay the medical bills. Most of us here are in the same boat,
> more or less. If we were not we would simply buy a prepackaged system and
> hook it up.
Don't make excuses. Nobody cares. This advice is not being nasty, just
that you are on usenet. The fact that you find yourself short of funds
just puts you in the same boat as most the rest of us. The reasons why
are nobody's business but yours and all the reason you need.
As far as pre-packaged system go, design your own, that way you will get
what you need and not what someone wants to sell you.
>
> All of us here are more that willing to hear your ideas on things but you
> are no help at all when you just state that our systems suck.
Nobody here cares what I think. The funny part of it is that in the end
all systems built will match the model I outlined for system design in
the end.
Does your system suck. Could be. But what I said was that your
installation sucks. Your system works, so you got the premise right.
As I said above, design the system you need. For my house I designed to
a daily load. That was what I needed. The fun part was the distribution.
I bought my cable on hundred meter and thirty meter rolls and miles of
conduit. Every cable run was laid out it the walls. And I should have
done more because retro fitting is a right bastard.
>
> I think that I can state from all of us that we would honestly listen to
> your input if you did not feel the need to insult everyone here.
>
> If you really do know a better way of doing something why not just help
> them ?
I did. I pointed out at the beginning that what you were doing with your
batteries was a dead end.:~}
>
> I myself find that I feel better inside when I help someone vs.. when I
> insult someone. life is too short for that kind of stuff.
Yes it is. But then some people just need that kick in the ass. These
people are known as the usual suspects.
>
> I also want to say that I am sorry for some of my posts directed at you. I
> have no ill will to you or any one else here.
Don't apologise. That is a sign of weakness and will only attract the
wolves.
And remember "Usenet is only electronic version of street theatre".
Ya gotta laugh or life's not worth living. That's what wayne is for.
If you want the panel rack plans just say so and they're yours.
George
wmbjk
<merl...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>Honestly
> I think that George has run away more people trying to learn about home
>brew solar systems than all of us could help.
Yup. And discouraging people from posting pictures makes him even more
of a prick than usual. Perhaps when others post pictures it makes him
feel inadequate in that even something so simple is yet another thing
beyond his ability. Except for when he thinks <snorf> that posting
photos will rehabilitate his rep somehow, then whatdaya' know, all of
a sudden he can manage. To all readers - feel free to post your
pictures, it's something that most of us encourage and enjoy. To
Grorge - not having a digital camera is no excuse. Here's
http://tinyurl.com/gryo2 where some time ago I pointed you to some
cheap cameras that would be plenty good enough for web pics. Or spend
$50 for something much better, or try acting human and somebody might
donate one of their hand-me-downs. Or scan your existing prints, or
take a new roll of film and scan those prints. Anyway you slice it the
only thing stopping you is that you're afraid that after years of
criticizing others, you'd be in for some straight talk that your
sniveling little weasel brain couldn't handle.
Wayne
wmbjk
<sol...@hotomale.invalid> wrote:
>George is a little crabby usually.
No, it's more like he's never happy. Surely you could recommend some
meds...
> This is mostly the result of having
>some desert rat, know-it-all, asshole, without a life, dog you for
>three or four years online. It becomes a conditioned response.
Gymmy Bob, if you had half a brain you'd check the archives before
posting more BS. The fact is that Grorge harassed people here for a
long time before I ever called him on it. I finally told him it would
be wise to cool it when he starting making some nasty and dead-wrong
claims about a knowledgeable regular. http://tinyurl.com/m5nlv Some
of these folks he attacks might have put up useful and interesting web
sites but for the thought of having an asshole like Grorge take pot
shots at it. Anyway, Grorge in his infinite wisdom decided not to heed
my good advice, and that instead I should be the third in a single
thread to get "ghioed". I generally leave him alone unless he starts
needlessly criticizing someone, but since he isn't smart enough to
stop doing that he gets deservedly hammered every time. His rep is in
the toilet with years of archived blunders to demonstrate his
mind-numbing ignorance and unlikeableness, the same archives that make
it necessary for you to keep changing nyms. Most of us here want
people to feel free to write about their setups and post photos.
You're a world-class goober to defend Grorge's efforts to discourage
it.
Wayne
George Ghio
least hundreds if not thousands of photos posted by people who use these
groups. If you post something you must expect to get feedback, sometimes
the feedback is not what you would like.
The real problem is that you had to pull your site because you could not
document your system. And for that matter you still can't.
That's not my fault, it's yours. Sure you can blame me but it won't
change the fact that you copied your system from a magazine, then had to
keep adding panels until you could at least work during the day.
Two days autonomy. It's not that hard, except that you can't weigh it so
you can't explain it.
And to save you any mental strain reading another post, when I buy a
digital camera it will be the one I want. You have no part in the decision.
wmbjk
wrote:
>Where did I ever discourage anyone from posting photos.
Oh sure Grorge, it never crossed your mind that slamming people
discourages both the slammee and folks with similar setups. Nobody is
fooled, and it's fitting that your attacks and blunders have helped
push you into a new career. Which you apparently intend to flub in
much less time than you spent circling the drain with solar.
> There are at
>least hundreds if not thousands of photos posted by people who use these
>groups. If you post something you must expect to get feedback, sometimes
>the feedback is not what you would like.
Only a small percentage of posters are willing to share their photos.
Part of the reason the number isn't larger is because of little pricks
like you. Correction, pretty much only you in the energy groups now
that I think about it. Absurdly enough, any one of your countless
blunders was a worse offense to the group than anything you've ever
criticized. Too bad you don't have the decency and common sense to
spend your time instead fixing up your own place, then you mightn't be
so fearful to let us see it. On the other hand, if twenty years hasn't
been enough to make it presentable, perhaps there ain't enough time
left for an old lame-o up to his eyeballs in bile. You may as well
drag out that Christmas router and start on your memorial
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/images/headstone.jpg.
>when I buy a
>digital camera it will be the one I want. You have no part in the decision.
IOW, yet more self-delusion. Man-up nitwit, if you haven't been able
to afford a digital camera by now, then you may as well accept that
it's never going to happen. Not that it matters, if you really wanted
to post photos you could have prints digitized for peanuts at most any
copy shop. It's kinda' obvious why you aren't willing to do things
like that.
Take this to the bank fool - I bet that most of us here would be happy
to buy Merlin a beer. Same goes for all the others you've attacked.
You'd be welcome to a beer from me as well, about a half hour after I
finish drinking it.
Wayne
William P.N. Smith
>Oh sure Grorge, it never crossed your mind that slamming people
>discourages both the slammee and folks with similar setups.
Oh, I dunno, I'm thinking it's more the difficulty of posting the
pictures in some kind of coherent framework and keeping them up to
date. Not that it's hard, but it takes hours to do right, there's no
real payback, and there are a lot of other things to do with my time
(yeah, including wasting way too many hours of it on Usenet. 8*)
George is in my killfile, so I'm hardly 'afraid' of him dissing my
efforts. Just one opinion.
Solar Flare
history.
Not worth the reading.
"William P.N. Smith" <news...@compusmiths.com> wrote in message
news:gb8v6217s9b5si419...@4ax.com...
beemerwacker
series of quotes from the blunder down under from just this one thread:
>Your whole installation smacks of the third world.
>Want to see waynes site? All you have to do is fail a maths test.
>You can't do it though can you. The big bad design copier is just a fraud.
>That smell is your installation.
and the defining moment, sort of Al Gore like in it's scope:
>Where did I ever discourage anyone from posting photos. There are at
>least hundreds if not thousands of photos posted by people who use these
>groups. If you post something you must expect to get feedback, sometimes
>the feedback is not what you would like.
"the feedback is not what you would like." Hmmmm. Interesting. But in
the end, he's right. We're all nothing but a bunch of slack assed,
dumb, system copying, idiotic, dumbshit, cretins. Sad really, the
entire population of Usenet reduced to only one person who knows what
they are doing. If you'll excuse me, I've got a few hundred photos to
upload.
George Ghio
course post some pictures so I can pass judgement on your ability.
But then you have seen what you are up against so it will come as no
surprise when no pics are forthcoming.
beemerwacker wrote:
> Well, I guess I have my answer to the whole thing. Here's a selected
> series of quotes from the blunder down under from just this one thread:
>
>
>
>>Your whole installation smacks of the third world.
>
Merlin
>
>>Want to see waynes site? All you have to do is fail a maths test.
wayne
>
>
>>You can't do it though can you. The big bad design copier is just a fraud.
>>That smell is your installation.
wayne
>
>
> and the defining moment, sort of Al Gore like in it's scope:
>
>
>>Where did I ever discourage anyone from posting photos. There are at
>>least hundreds if not thousands of photos posted by people who use these
>>groups. If you post something you must expect to get feedback, sometimes
>>the feedback is not what you would like.
Anybody who posts a "Look what I did" brag page.
beemerwacker
blunder from down under. Can I ask you a question George?
From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Thurs, May 11 2006 8:18 pm
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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I have a MK power AGM (solar) battery.
It has never been charged over 14.3 volts (the battery says not to go
over
14.6) ok safe there.
The most my solar system can produce is 15 amps, split between 4
batteries
...ok safe there...
It has never been discharged below 11.9 volts ( I brought my whole
bank
down to 11.9 just once during testing.) ...kinda pushing the limits but
still should not have killed the battery.
The AGM when chargeing, jumps up very fast to 14.2 volts but has about
1 to
5 AH of storage in it.
I am new to AGM's but was very careful not to overcharge it etc.
Is it possible that I bought a COOKED battery? When I added it to my
bank
all I did was check the voltage, I did not think to put a load on it
and see
what happened.
The battery is less than 6 months old.
Just as a side note...the 2 optimas that have been in the same bank
and are
about 9 months older than the AGM are fine...(still close to 55AH each)
Any ideas as to what happend? I recorded voltages/ charge rates /
discharge
rates etc. over the last year or so a few times a week and can not find
any
spikes or voltages over 14.3 at any time.
I could have done something wrong somewhere, however I can not figure
out
where.
If AGM,s are bubbled, would the voltage go up fast during chargeing
but not
have any storage?
If this is the case. I think I was sold a cooked battery and will just
have
to eat what I paid for it...
Thanks joe
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: SJC - view profile
Date: Thurs, May 11 2006 9:09 pm
Email: "SJC" <sjc_pau...@yahoo.com>
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All I can say is I had a Johnson Controls Optima that failed early.
I took it back and the dealer said they had a bad batch and replaced
it.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
"Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:mvQ8g.63$lm...@tornado.southeast.rr.com...
>I have a MK power AGM (solar) battery.
> It has never been charged over 14.3 volts (the battery says not to go over
> 14.6) ok safe there.
> The most my solar system can produce is 15 amps, split between 4 batteries
> ...ok safe there...
> It has never been discharged below 11.9 volts ( I brought my whole bank
> down to 11.9 just once during testing.) ...kinda pushing the limits but
> still should not have killed the battery.
> The AGM when chargeing, jumps up very fast to 14.2 volts but has about 1 to
> 5 AH of storage in it.
> I am new to AGM's but was very careful not to overcharge it etc.
> Is it possible that I bought a COOKED battery? When I added it to my bank
> all I did was check the voltage, I did not think to put a load on it and see
> what happened.
> The battery is less than 6 months old.
> Just as a side note...the 2 optimas that have been in the same bank and are
> about 9 months older than the AGM are fine...(still close to 55AH each)
> Any ideas as to what happend? I recorded voltages/ charge rates / discharge
> rates etc. over the last year or so a few times a week and can not find any
> spikes or voltages over 14.3 at any time.
> I could have done something wrong somewhere, however I can not figure out
> where.
> If AGM,s are bubbled, would the voltage go up fast during chargeing but not
> have any storage?
> If this is the case. I think I was sold a cooked battery and will just have
> to eat what I paid for it...
> Thanks joe
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: Bill Kaszeta / Photovoltaic Resources - view profile
Date: Thurs, May 11 2006 9:44 pm
Email: kasze...@mindspring.com (Bill Kaszeta / Photovoltaic
Resources)
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- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
On Fri, 12 May 2006 00:18:26 GMT, "Merlin-7 KI4ILB"
<merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>I have a MK power AGM (solar) battery.
> It has never been charged over 14.3 volts (the battery says not to go over
>14.6) ok safe there.
> The most my solar system can produce is 15 amps, split between 4 batteries
>...ok safe there...
> It has never been discharged below 11.9 volts ( I brought my whole bank
>down to 11.9 just once during testing.) ...kinda pushing the limits but
>still should not have killed the battery.
>The AGM when chargeing, jumps up very fast to 14.2 volts but has about 1 to
>5 AH of storage in it.
> I am new to AGM's but was very careful not to overcharge it etc.
> Is it possible that I bought a COOKED battery? When I added it to my bank
>all I did was check the voltage, I did not think to put a load on it and see
>what happened.
> The battery is less than 6 months old.
> Just as a side note...the 2 optimas that have been in the same bank and are
>about 9 months older than the AGM are fine...(still close to 55AH each)
> Any ideas as to what happend? I recorded voltages/ charge rates / discharge
>rates etc. over the last year or so a few times a week and can not find any
>spikes or voltages over 14.3 at any time.
> I could have done something wrong somewhere, however I can not figure out
>where.
> If AGM,s are bubbled, would the voltage go up fast during chargeing but not
>have any storage?
> If this is the case. I think I was sold a cooked battery and will just have
>to eat what I paid for it...
> Thanks joe
Possibilities:
1. The battery was abused before you received it, stored for a long
period without proper charging, etc.
2. The Optimas are perhaps establishing the voltage balance with
the PV panel and the AGM battery is not being fully charged. The
usual rule is NOT to mix different types of batteries in parallel.
3. If you do not discharge the AGM below 11.9, how do you know
it's capacity? The rest voltage of a battery is 12.9 to 13.1 volts
depending on the specific gravity of the acid in the battery.
Fully discharged is usually defined as discharge down to
10.5 volts.
4. Has the battery ever been equalized? You may have a cell in
the battery that was initiall higher capacity than the other cells
and as a result it will be under charged when the amp-hours
into all the cells leave this one undercharged and this can
lead to the start of sulfation in the cell if not corrected by
equalization. See the battery manufacturer's recommended
equalization voltage, time and frequency.
Bill Kaszeta
Photovoltaic Resources Int'l
Tempe Arizona USA
b...@pvri-removethis.biz
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: pickleki...@gmail.com - view profile
Date: Fri, May 12 2006 6:03 am
Email: pickleki...@gmail.com
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Hi!
It is my understanding that you DO NOT apply an equalization charge to
sealed batteries.
Bob
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: beemerwacker - view profile
Date: Fri, May 12 2006 6:18 am
Email: "beemerwacker" <43.kit...@gmail.com>
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I had a similar problem; my old powerplus 400 had a 20 ah agm in it.
After a year or so the thing held a charge for oh, a minute. Well, I
was tearing the thing apart anyways for the inverter and started
playing with the battery to see what I could do with it. I was able to
revive it (I use it at the cabin now to power 12 volt lights for 2 days
at a time).
I can't recommend what I did, but you can use it for clues. What I did
was use a small power pack from one of my RC planes. This particular
charger puts out 17.9 V @ 1.2 amps shorted and 14.5 v connected. The
charge tapers according the the resistance of the battery (them little
litium jobs are sensitive and will 'splode). After a day hooked up, the
charge was only 60%. I let it rest, then repeated. Now it was 75% at
rest. One more cycle, now at 100%. It now holds charge fine and will
power lights at the cabin. Obviously, this probably won't work in your
case but....
Give me a shout, I think I have an extra pack around here someplace I
can send you, Joe.
Max
http://www.northernmichigansolar.com
Reply
From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Fri, May 12 2006 7:44 am
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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I should have said the battery bank was never below 11.9 volts....
If you connect a small 12 volt fan up to the agm it will run for maybe
a
minute then the voltage of the battery will drop like a rock well below
11
volts if you let it.
Joe
"Bill Kaszeta / Photovoltaic Resources" <kasze...@mindspring.com> wrote
in
message news:4463e48f...@news.east.earthlink.net...
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> 3. If you do not discharge the AGM below 11.9, how do you know
> it's capacity? The rest voltage of a battery is 12.9 to 13.1 volts
> depending on the specific gravity of the acid in the battery.
> Fully discharged is usually defined as discharge down to
> 10.5 volts.
> 4. Has the battery ever been equalized? You may have a cell in
> the battery that was initiall higher capacity than the other cells
> and as a result it will be under charged when the amp-hours
> into all the cells leave this one undercharged and this can
> lead to the start of sulfation in the cell if not corrected by
> equalization. See the battery manufacturer's recommended
> equalization voltage, time and frequency.
> Bill Kaszeta
> Photovoltaic Resources Int'l
> Tempe Arizona USA
> b...@pvri-removethis.biz
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: ~~NoMad~~ - view profile
Date: Fri, May 12 2006 9:58 am
Email: "~~NoMad~~" <understanding.eng...@gmail.com>
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"Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:mvQ8g.63$lm...@tornado.southeast.rr.com...
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
>I have a MK power AGM (solar) battery.
> It has never been charged over 14.3 volts (the battery says not to go
> over
> 14.6) ok safe there.
> The most my solar system can produce is 15 amps, split between 4 batteries
> ...ok safe there...
> It has never been discharged below 11.9 volts ( I brought my whole bank
> down to 11.9 just once during testing.) ...kinda pushing the limits but
> still should not have killed the battery.
> The AGM when chargeing, jumps up very fast to 14.2 volts but has about 1
> to
> 5 AH of storage in it.
> I am new to AGM's but was very careful not to overcharge it etc.
> Is it possible that I bought a COOKED battery? When I added it to my bank
> all I did was check the voltage, I did not think to put a load on it and
> see
> what happened.
> The battery is less than 6 months old.
> Just as a side note...the 2 optimas that have been in the same bank and
> are
> about 9 months older than the AGM are fine...(still close to 55AH each)
> Any ideas as to what happend? I recorded voltages/ charge rates /
> discharge
> rates etc. over the last year or so a few times a week and can not find
> any
> spikes or voltages over 14.3 at any time.
> I could have done something wrong somewhere, however I can not figure out
> where.
> If AGM,s are bubbled, would the voltage go up fast during chargeing but
> not
> have any storage?
> If this is the case. I think I was sold a cooked battery and will just
> have
> to eat what I paid for it...
> Thanks joe
You probably never gave the battery a full charge when it was new. You
need
to 'float' an AGM for six months to be sure of a full charge. You have
let
at least one cell get low and sulphated, develop high resistance, and
loose
capacity. That's the way AGM usually go...
NM
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: SJC - view profile
Date: Fri, May 12 2006 5:03 pm
Email: "SJC" <sjc_pau...@yahoo.com>
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Here is what Optima says about batteries in parallel.
Suggestions for connecting batteries in parallel
a.. Use batteries of identical make, model, and age.
http://www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/americas0/en/config/pro...
My yellow top 34 model is just by itself and I charge it with a
deep cycle charger.
Have not had any problems so far.
- Hide quoted text -
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"Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:jy_8g.62$kc...@tornado.southeast.rr.com...
> I should have said the battery bank was never below 11.9 volts....
> If you connect a small 12 volt fan up to the agm it will run for maybe a
> minute then the voltage of the battery will drop like a rock well below 11
> volts if you let it.
> Joe
> "Bill Kaszeta / Photovoltaic Resources" <kasze...@mindspring.com> wrote in
> message news:4463e48f...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>> 3. If you do not discharge the AGM below 11.9, how do you know
>> it's capacity? The rest voltage of a battery is 12.9 to 13.1 volts
>> depending on the specific gravity of the acid in the battery.
>> Fully discharged is usually defined as discharge down to
>> 10.5 volts.
>> 4. Has the battery ever been equalized? You may have a cell in
>> the battery that was initiall higher capacity than the other cells
>> and as a result it will be under charged when the amp-hours
>> into all the cells leave this one undercharged and this can
>> lead to the start of sulfation in the cell if not corrected by
>> equalization. See the battery manufacturer's recommended
>> equalization voltage, time and frequency.
>> Bill Kaszeta
>> Photovoltaic Resources Int'l
>> Tempe Arizona USA
>> b...@pvri-removethis.biz
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From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Fri, May 12 2006 5:34 pm
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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Could be... I took voltage measurements of all my batteries at least
once a
month and the voltage on the battery reads fine even after sitting for
12
hours.
I just never did a load test on it so I am not sure if it was that way
when
I bought it. Now I know to load test each one from time to time.
I also know about not using different batteries in the same bank but
what
started out as something just to run my ham radio gear turned into
something
much bigger.
I am switching over to wet cell batteries but I really do not want to
toss
out the other batteries. (I cant afford to go out and buy 600 ah of
batteries all at once.)
I pulled that battery from the bank and it is on a trickle charger to
see
what happens but I think it is fubar...
Joe
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> You probably never gave the battery a full charge when it was new. You
need
> to 'float' an AGM for six months to be sure of a full charge. You have let
> at least one cell get low and sulphated, develop high resistance, and
loose
> capacity. That's the way AGM usually go...
> NM
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From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Sat, May 13 2006 8:30 am
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If a picture is worth a thousand words then the explanation is four
thousand words long. (see post new pictures)
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Merlin-7 KI4ILB wrote:
> I have a MK power AGM (solar) battery.
> It has never been charged over 14.3 volts (the battery says not to go over
> 14.6) ok safe there.
> The most my solar system can produce is 15 amps, split between 4 batteries
> ...ok safe there...
> It has never been discharged below 11.9 volts ( I brought my whole bank
> down to 11.9 just once during testing.) ...kinda pushing the limits but
> still should not have killed the battery.
> The AGM when chargeing, jumps up very fast to 14.2 volts but has about 1 to
> 5 AH of storage in it.
> I am new to AGM's but was very careful not to overcharge it etc.
> Is it possible that I bought a COOKED battery? When I added it to my bank
> all I did was check the voltage, I did not think to put a load on it and see
> what happened.
> The battery is less than 6 months old.
> Just as a side note...the 2 optimas that have been in the same bank and are
> about 9 months older than the AGM are fine...(still close to 55AH each)
> Any ideas as to what happend? I recorded voltages/ charge rates / discharge
> rates etc. over the last year or so a few times a week and can not find any
> spikes or voltages over 14.3 at any time.
> I could have done something wrong somewhere, however I can not figure out
> where.
> If AGM,s are bubbled, would the voltage go up fast during chargeing but not
> have any storage?
> If this is the case. I think I was sold a cooked battery and will just have
> to eat what I paid for it...
> Thanks joe
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From: beemerwacker - view profile
Date: Sun, May 14 2006 10:38 pm
Email: "beemerwacker" <43.kit...@gmail.com>
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Well, the little 20 ah AGM I revived (see previous post) has been
running 10 watts for 5 hours now with 6 amps for a half hour. Voltage
is currently 12.37 at rest, 12.30 under load. start was your typical
12.8.
In our previous episode of "that shit won't work, you idiot", it was
able to power the 10 watts for 5 hours before getting to 11 volts - not
good at midnight at the cabin after 200 beers.
So it looks like a lower, tapered charge over a cycle of several times
does the trick. Anyone got a small dead AGM for me to try it on again?
I've still got the RC lith-ion charger at the ready.
Max
http://www.northernmichigansolar.com
http://www.kitcar.dynip.com/solarpower/
[most pages updated 5-13-06]
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From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Sun, May 14 2006 10:51 pm
Email: George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
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Good for you. Are you claiming responsibility for Merlin's installation
as well.
- Hide quoted text -
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beemerwacker wrote:
> Well, the little 20 ah AGM I revived (see previous post) has been
> running 10 watts for 5 hours now with 6 amps for a half hour. Voltage
> is currently 12.37 at rest, 12.30 under load. start was your typical
> 12.8.
> In our previous episode of "that shit won't work, you idiot", it was
> able to power the 10 watts for 5 hours before getting to 11 volts - not
> good at midnight at the cabin after 200 beers.
> So it looks like a lower, tapered charge over a cycle of several times
> does the trick. Anyone got a small dead AGM for me to try it on again?
> I've still got the RC lith-ion charger at the ready.
> Max
> http://www.northernmichigansolar.com
> http://www.kitcar.dynip.com/solarpower/
> [most pages updated 5-13-06]
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From: beemerwacker - view profile
Date: Mon, May 15 2006 7:23 pm
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Merlin knows what he's doing. However, I _do_ claim responsibility for
your installation. :-)
Max
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From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Mon, May 15 2006 8:12 pm
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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I did find the problem with the AGM.. If you can look at the IR
pictures I
took you can find it too..
However, It was not something that you would normaly think about.
Lets see who can guess what it was.....
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From: beemerwacker - view profile
Date: Mon, May 15 2006 9:06 pm
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Hey Joe,
Looks like your wires are too small. What the hell you using, like 18
gauge? That thing's like gotta be 150 degrees. Jeez, it's wonder it
didn't burn up your disconnect - I'd check that next. Gotta watch out
if your using once of those 12 volt under cab. lights too; could melt
the transformer.
Max
http://www.northernmichigansolar.com
http://www.kitcar.dynip.com/solarpower/
[most pages updated 5-13-06]
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From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Mon, May 15 2006 9:16 pm
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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No max
It was 2ga wire but your close...
And thanks for the heads up on those homedepot 12 volt lights...
A month 2 late...
Burning wires and starting fires...
Joe
"beemerwacker" <43.kit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147741607.2...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> Hey Joe,
> Looks like your wires are too small. What the hell you using, like 18
> gauge? That thing's like gotta be 150 degrees. Jeez, it's wonder it
> didn't burn up your disconnect - I'd check that next. Gotta watch out
> if your using once of those 12 volt under cab. lights too; could melt
> the transformer.
> Max
> http://www.northernmichigansolar.com
> http://www.kitcar.dynip.com/solarpower/
> [most pages updated 5-13-06]
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 12:41 am
Email: George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
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Knows what he is doing? LOL.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
beemerwacker wrote:
> Hey Joe,
> Looks like your wires are too small. What the hell you using, like 18
> gauge? That thing's like gotta be 150 degrees. Jeez, it's wonder it
> didn't burn up your disconnect - I'd check that next. Gotta watch out
> if your using once of those 12 volt under cab. lights too; could melt
> the transformer.
> Max
> http://www.northernmichigansolar.com
> http://www.kitcar.dynip.com/solarpower/
> [most pages updated 5-13-06]
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 1:01 am
Email: George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
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Let's see.
Pic 1; Shadows across panels, Insufficient support for 5
panels(supports
already sagging), Wiring exposed to damage from UV.
Pic 2; Electronics mounted directly above batteries, subjected to
corrosive atmosphere, Different types, sizes, ages batteries in series
parallel, Exhaust fan running flamable hydrogen over motor- fire
hazard.
What a wank.
- Hide quoted text -
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beemerwacker wrote:
> Merlin knows what he's doing. However, I _do_ claim responsibility for
> your installation. :-)
> Max
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 6:17 pm
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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"George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
news:44695de1$1...@news.chariot.net.au...
> Let's see.
> Pic 1; Shadows across panels, Insufficient support for 5 panels(supports
> already sagging), Wiring exposed to damage from UV.
The shadow is from my ham radio tower and late in the evening it does
cast a
shadow on them for about 15 minutes but if you would look closely at
the
shadows, the sun is setting and at such an angle to the panels out put
is
next to nothing anyway (sunset is really hard on PV systems)
The supports are not saging. there are 2 sets of mounts there (on the
left 5
panels also 1 panel is missing) each mount supports 3 panels and I
would
like you to try and make that angle sag (ever try and bend 3/4 inch
angle
iron???)
Yes I do agree I need to finnish running condit even if the wires I
used
are gas, oil and uv restient.
> Pic 2; Electronics mounted directly above batteries, subjected to
> corrosive atmosphere, Different types, sizes, ages batteries in series
> parallel, Exhaust fan running flamable hydrogen over motor- fire hazard.
The batteries are going to end up on the other side of wall in a cinder
block box, however it is not possible to create enough gassing off of 1
wet
cell battery and a PV set that can only produce 15 amps MAX inside a 12
by
16 foot shed that is well vented. As for the fans, there sealed
bushless, so
where would an ignition sorce be?
All my batteries are wired in parallel. It is a bit of a pain to charge
them
sometimes But buying different kinds of batteries was the only way that
I
could test each kind myself.
I will be changeing over to wet cells. the optimas will end up in me
and my
wifes cars.
That only leaves me out the AGM not sure what I am going to do with
that
yet.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> What a wank.
> beemerwacker wrote:
> > Merlin knows what he's doing. However, I _do_ claim responsibility for
> > your installation. :-)
> > Max
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 7:10 pm
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I have heard all those excuses, and more from people like you. It
always
ends the same. A bloody great mess.
I doubt that you have a single foot of uv stable cable anywhere in your
installation.
Why is sunset "really hard" on PV systems.
Your whole installation smacks of the third world.
You claim "sunset" for pic 1 when it is clearly only mid afternoon,
given the angle of shadow across the roof. Still plenty of sun on the
panels to charge.
Look at the top edges of the five panels then the bottom edges. The
panels show a definite twist. 3/4 in angle. Undersized for the length
of
span.
All your batteries are in parallel, proud of that are you? Looks like
four different sizes/types there.
And yes I have bent 3/4 in angle. It's really quite easy.
All in all, a mess.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Merlin-7 KI4ILB wrote:
> "George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
> news:44695de1$1...@news.chariot.net.au...
>>Let's see.
>>Pic 1; Shadows across panels, Insufficient support for 5 panels(supports
>>already sagging), Wiring exposed to damage from UV.
> The shadow is from my ham radio tower and late in the evening it does cast a
> shadow on them for about 15 minutes but if you would look closely at the
> shadows, the sun is setting and at such an angle to the panels out put is
> next to nothing anyway (sunset is really hard on PV systems)
> The supports are not saging. there are 2 sets of mounts there (on the left 5
> panels also 1 panel is missing) each mount supports 3 panels and I would
> like you to try and make that angle sag (ever try and bend 3/4 inch angle
> iron???)
> Yes I do agree I need to finnish running condit even if the wires I used
> are gas, oil and uv restient.
>>Pic 2; Electronics mounted directly above batteries, subjected to
>>corrosive atmosphere, Different types, sizes, ages batteries in series
>>parallel, Exhaust fan running flamable hydrogen over motor- fire hazard.
> The batteries are going to end up on the other side of wall in a cinder
> block box, however it is not possible to create enough gassing off of 1 wet
> cell battery and a PV set that can only produce 15 amps MAX inside a 12 by
> 16 foot shed that is well vented. As for the fans, there sealed bushless, so
> where would an ignition sorce be?
> All my batteries are wired in parallel. It is a bit of a pain to charge them
> sometimes But buying different kinds of batteries was the only way that I
> could test each kind myself.
> I will be changeing over to wet cells. the optimas will end up in me and my
> wifes cars.
> That only leaves me out the AGM not sure what I am going to do with that
> yet.
>>What a wank.
>>beemerwacker wrote:
>>>Merlin knows what he's doing. However, I _do_ claim responsibility for
>>>your installation. :-)
>>>Max
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 8:09 pm
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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"George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
news:446a5...@news.chariot.net.au...
> I have heard all those excuses, and more from people like you. It always
people like me?
You mean people that you feel the need to insult to try and make you
feel
better about yourself?
> ends the same. A bloody great mess.
My bloody great mess works fine (other than a bad disconnect that
killed my
AGM, ok its not doa but it was not happy)
> I doubt that you have a single foot of uv stable cable anywhere in your
> installation.
All my cable is UV stable includeing the LMR 600 ultra flex on my
transcevers.
> Why is sunset "really hard" on PV systems.
Sunset is hard on PV systems beacuse they do not work when the sun goes
down....
> Your whole installation smacks of the third world.
> You claim "sunset" for pic 1 when it is clearly only mid afternoon,
The shadow you see on the panels is my tower, it is due west of my
panels.
Why would I make that one up?
Your still trying to make your self better than anyone else again....
> given the angle of shadow across the roof. Still plenty of sun on the
> panels to charge.
> Look at the top edges of the five panels then the bottom edges. The Ummm
the 2 sets of 3 panels are not at the same exact angle.
> panels show a definite twist. 3/4 in angle. Undersized for the length of
> span.
3/4 angle is not big enough for a 38 inch span? Funny that the
manufacturer
thought it was. I guess you know more than the people that make the
panels
do..
> All your batteries are in parallel, proud of that are you? Looks like
> four different sizes/types there.
Yes there are 3 different types there, the 2 optimas are the same, and
if
you would get you head out of your ass and read why there are 3 diffent
types you would not of had to post that over again.
> And yes I have bent 3/4 in angle. It's really quite easy.
I want to see you bend 1/8 wall 3/4 inch angle that is 38 inches long,
while
attached to 3 PV panels, without breaking a single panel and how
exactly
could that happen in the real world, not in your self inflated ego?
> All in all, a mess.
> Joe
KI4ILB and yes I can build and repair ham radio equipment and
computers.
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From: wmbjk - view profile
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 8:47 pm
Email: wmbjk <wmbjkREM...@citlink.net>
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On Wed, 17 May 2006 00:09:42 GMT, "Merlin-7 KI4ILB"
<merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>"George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
>news:446a5...@news.chariot.net.au...
>> I have heard all those excuses, and more from people like you. It always
>people like me?
>You mean people that you feel the need to insult to try and make you feel
>better about yourself?
If you want to hear excuses, just ask Judge nitwit why he won't show
pictures of his own setup. It must be really bad if it can't stand the
light of day.
Wayne
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From: beemerwacker - view profile
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 9:37 pm
Email: "beemerwacker" <43.kit...@gmail.com>
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Ah, Wayne. Just read his his diary at Ghostscript. I was stunned. Don't
worry, I've got an overhead of Bealiba; I'll get a zoom in.
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From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 10:46 pm
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Merlin-7 KI4ILB wrote:
> "George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
> news:446a5...@news.chariot.net.au...
>>I have heard all those excuses, and more from people like you. It always
> people like me?
> You mean people that you feel the need to insult to try and make you feel
> better about yourself?
No people like you who learn nothing before starting to hand out
information.
>>ends the same. A bloody great mess.
> My bloody great mess works fine (other than a bad disconnect that killed my
> AGM, ok its not doa but it was not happy)
I've seen worse still work. Doesn't mean a good installation. Then
there
is your own admission of incorrect wire size used to the point of a
possible fire hazard
>>I doubt that you have a single foot of uv stable cable anywhere in your
>>installation.
> All my cable is UV stable includeing the LMR 600 ultra flex on my
> transcevers.
>>Why is sunset "really hard" on PV systems.
> Sunset is hard on PV systems beacuse they do not work when the sun goes
> down....
Can't be "really hard" if there is no work being done. Duh.
>>Your whole installation smacks of the third world.
>>You claim "sunset" for pic 1 when it is clearly only mid afternoon,
> The shadow you see on the panels is my tower, it is due west of my panels.
> Why would I make that one up?
> Your still trying to make your self better than anyone else again....
Shadow is shadow and affects panel output. Lift your game.
>>given the angle of shadow across the roof. Still plenty of sun on the
>>panels to charge.
>>Look at the top edges of the five panels then the bottom edges. The Ummm
> the 2 sets of 3 panels are not at the same exact angle.
Yes that is evident, as is the fact that the top and bottom edges are
not parallel.
>>panels show a definite twist. 3/4 in angle. Undersized for the length of
>>span.
> 3/4 angle is not big enough for a 38 inch span? Funny that the manufacturer
> thought it was. I guess you know more than the people that make the panels
> do..
I do.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
>>All your batteries are in parallel, proud of that are you? Looks like
>>four different sizes/types there.
> Yes there are 3 different types there, the 2 optimas are the same, and if
> you would get you head out of your ass and read why there are 3 diffent
> types you would not of had to post that over again.
>>And yes I have bent 3/4 in angle. It's really quite easy.
> I want to see you bend 1/8 wall 3/4 inch angle that is 38 inches long, while
> attached to 3 PV panels, without breaking a single panel and how exactly
> could that happen in the real world, not in your self inflated ego?
Well, they're you panels and investment.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
>>All in all, a mess.
>>Joe
> KI4ILB and yes I can build and repair ham radio equipment and computers.
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From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 10:47 pm
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Or you could ask runaway wayne why he can't supply real numbers for his
system.
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wmbjk wrote:
> On Wed, 17 May 2006 00:09:42 GMT, "Merlin-7 KI4ILB"
> <merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>>"George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
>>news:446a5...@news.chariot.net.au...
>>>I have heard all those excuses, and more from people like you. It always
>>people like me?
>>You mean people that you feel the need to insult to try and make you feel
>>better about yourself?
> If you want to hear excuses, just ask Judge nitwit why he won't show
> pictures of his own setup. It must be really bad if it can't stand the
> light of day.
> Wayne
Reply Rate this post:
From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 11:10 pm
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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George I have no idea of what your talking about in this line???
The IR picture of tha bank?
If so your a bigger idiot than I thought.
The high and low temps are on the pictures.
The wire was less than 10F higher in temp than the rest.
Also It was not thew wrong size wire for the amp load that caused the
problem. I never said what it was.
Just for you However I will tell... I had a bad battery disconect on
that
battery.
> I've seen worse still work. Doesn't mean a good installation. Then there
> is your own admission of incorrect wire size used to the point of a
> possible fire hazard
Go ahead george make me laugh some more.
I would love to hear your insite on RF grounding systems also.
Joe
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From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Wed, May 17 2006 3:41 am
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I suggest you do a runner as per wayne and pull the pics. At least then
the evidence won't be staring people in the face.
- Hide quoted text -
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Merlin-7 KI4ILB wrote:
> George I have no idea of what your talking about in this line???
> The IR picture of tha bank?
> If so your a bigger idiot than I thought.
> The high and low temps are on the pictures.
> The wire was less than 10F higher in temp than the rest.
> Also It was not thew wrong size wire for the amp load that caused the
> problem. I never said what it was.
> Just for you However I will tell... I had a bad battery disconect on that
> battery.
>>I've seen worse still work. Doesn't mean a good installation. Then there
>>is your own admission of incorrect wire size used to the point of a
>>possible fire hazard
> Go ahead george make me laugh some more.
> I would love to hear your insite on RF grounding systems also.
> Joe
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Date: Wed, May 17 2006 9:56 am
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George Ghio wrote:
> Or you could ask runaway wayne why he can't supply real numbers for his
> system.
George, that's your nickname.
"I will not discuss this topic with you simply because you have not
exhibited any ability in the so called design of your own system."
-- George Ghio
For some reason, Monty Python and The Search for the Holy Grail come to
mind.
Sir Robin, to be specific. "...and bravely he did run away..."
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: Tony Wesley - view profile
Date: Wed, May 17 2006 10:01 am
Email: "Tony Wesley" <tonywes...@gmail.com>
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George Ghio wrote:
> I suggest you do a runner as per wayne and pull the pics. At least then
> the evidence won't be staring people in the face.
Where the picture and web site of your system??
Bravely does Sir George run away.
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From: wmbjk - view profile
Date: Wed, May 17 2006 10:36 am
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On Wed, 17 May 2006 17:41:09 +1000, George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
wrote:
>I suggest you do a runner as per wayne and pull the pics. At least then
>the evidence won't be staring people in the face.
Some of my pics http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/17photos.htm
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/images/main/solar%20system800.jpg
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/images/main/inverter_half.jpg
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/images/main/wind%20and%20sun.jpg
etc., etc.
The only time grumpy Grorge's pics show up on Usenet is in his
nightmares.
Wayne
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From: wmbjk - view profile
Date: Wed, May 17 2006 10:41 am
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On Wed, 17 May 2006 03:10:50 GMT, "Merlin-7 KI4ILB"
<merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>George I have no idea of what your talking about in this line???
Don't waste your time explaining anything to Grorge. If you check the
archives you'll find that he's ragged on just about everybody at one
time or another. He never admits when he's wrong, and never backs down
from his criticisms whether petty or insane. Whenever he's cornered
with evidence of poor practice on his own setup, he simply claims that
whatever *he's* doing is OK so long as it works. Hypocritically, he
never accepts that reasoning from anyone else. But the proof is in the
pudding - he's ashamed of his own installation, has failed at solar
"consulting", and is now trying to find Chinese who can be fooled into
thinking that he's capable of editing their web sites. The business
plan apparently includes recruiting customers too dumb to notice that
Grorge has never managed to afford a site of his own, can't even edit
his own ads, and has a long Usenet history of blunders and
self-destructive behavior. Should he ever find anyone that helpless,
he'll probably bungle their job and then treat <snorf> us to one of
his "stories" about how the *customer* was a jerk.
Wayne
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From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Wed, May 17 2006 10:52 am
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You should study some of the history.
Wayne had a web site that was totally bereft of any meaningful numbers.
I called him on it.
He then said that if just one other person said that his numbers did
not
add up he would pull the site.
Someone (I suspect it was wayne using one of his personas) posted that
wayne's numbers did not add up.
Wayne used this as an excuse to pull his site, in short he ran away,
he's been running ever since. Hence the nick name.
So you see, you are mistaken.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Tony Wesley wrote:
> George Ghio wrote:
>>Or you could ask runaway wayne why he can't supply real numbers for his
>>system.
> George, that's your nickname.
> "I will not discuss this topic with you simply because you have not
> exhibited any ability in the so called design of your own system."
> -- George Ghio
> For some reason, Monty Python and The Search for the Holy Grail come to
> mind.
> Sir Robin, to be specific. "...and bravely he did run away..."
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Wed, May 17 2006 10:59 am
Email: George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
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Just once in your pathetic little life wayne take up the challenge.
There is a reason for me to subvert the three stage charging of my reg.
It is so simple that even a simpleton such as yourself could find it
with ten minutes reading.
You can't do it though can you. The big bad design copier is just a
fraud.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
wmbjk wrote:
> On Wed, 17 May 2006 03:10:50 GMT, "Merlin-7 KI4ILB"
> <merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>>George I have no idea of what your talking about in this line???
> Don't waste your time explaining anything to Grorge. If you check the
> archives you'll find that he's ragged on just about everybody at one
> time or another. He never admits when he's wrong, and never backs down
> from his criticisms whether petty or insane. Whenever he's cornered
> with evidence of poor practice on his own setup, he simply claims that
> whatever *he's* doing is OK so long as it works. Hypocritically, he
> never accepts that reasoning from anyone else. But the proof is in the
> pudding - he's ashamed of his own installation, has failed at solar
> "consulting", and is now trying to find Chinese who can be fooled into
> thinking that he's capable of editing their web sites. The business
> plan apparently includes recruiting customers too dumb to notice that
> Grorge has never managed to afford a site of his own, can't even edit
> his own ads, and has a long Usenet history of blunders and
> self-destructive behavior. Should he ever find anyone that helpless,
> he'll probably bungle their job and then treat <snorf> us to one of
> his "stories" about how the *customer* was a jerk.
> Wayne
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From: wmbjk - view profile
Date: Wed, May 17 2006 11:16 am
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On Thu, 18 May 2006 00:52:00 +1000, George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
wrote:
>So you see, you are mistaken.
My site has always been available to anyone interested.
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/solar30.htm
Now, *why* can't we see photos of your setup given that you're always
trying to invent fault with other's photos? I'm thinking that a whole
bunch of stuff about your place is just as pathetic as your editing
"business". And that you're a gutless blowhard who's too small to
admit the difference between what you are, and what you've claimed to
be.
Wayne
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From: beemerwacker - view profile
Date: Wed, May 17 2006 7:36 pm
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Wayne,
I just checked out your site. Great information! I like the description
of the appliances - creating energy is pointless unless you use it
wisely. Good job, man.
Max
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From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Wed, May 17 2006 7:57 pm
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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George, dont you live in a trailer? Like lot 11 ?
But you are an expert on solar systems?
Something smells here...
Joe
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From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Wed, May 17 2006 8:01 pm
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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Sorry They list adresses different down there. But bealiva is kinda
dead.....
"Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2MOag.2584$JW5....@southeast.rr.com...
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> George, dont you live in a trailer? Like lot 11 ?
> But you are an expert on solar systems?
> Something smells here...
> Joe
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From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Wed, May 17 2006 8:57 pm
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Want to see waynes site? All you have to do is fail a maths test.
- Hide quoted text -
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wmbjk wrote:
> On Thu, 18 May 2006 00:52:00 +1000, George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
> wrote:
>>So you see, you are mistaken.
> My site has always been available to anyone interested.
> http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/solar30.htm
> Now, *why* can't we see photos of your setup given that you're always
> trying to invent fault with other's photos? I'm thinking that a whole
> bunch of stuff about your place is just as pathetic as your editing
> "business". And that you're a gutless blowhard who's too small to
> admit the difference between what you are, and what you've claimed to
> be.
> Wayne
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From: wmbjk - view profile
Date: Thurs, May 18 2006 10:50 am
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On Thu, 18 May 2006 00:01:22 GMT, "Merlin-7 KI4ILB"
<merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>Sorry They list adresses different down there. But bealiva is kinda
>dead.....
Look for the power lines. He won't say how far away they are, so it's
probably less than a mile. Also look for all the usual signs of
camera-shyness, such as derelict vehicles, appliances, batteries, and
propane bottles. Don't forget his recommendation for 300k Ohms of
nichrome wire for generator field-control. That much wire might be
visible from a long way off. :-)
Wayne
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From: d...@XReXXagmXf.usenet.us.com - view profile
Date: Thurs, May 18 2006 8:03 pm
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Merlin-7 KI4ILB <merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
> I did find the problem with the AGM.. If you can look at the IR pictures I
> took you can find it too..
> However, It was not something that you would normaly think about.
> Lets see who can guess what it was.....
I don't see a link to the pictures on usenet. Is this being posted via
some forum? What is an http link to the pictures?
--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
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From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Thurs, May 18 2006 8:32 pm
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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http://carpetcareservices.homestead.com/IR/IR.html
Joe
<d...@XReXXagmXf.usenet.us.com> wrote in message
news:e4j1vp$l1c$2...@blue.rahul.net...
- Hide quoted text -
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> Merlin-7 KI4ILB <merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
> > I did find the problem with the AGM.. If you can look at the IR pictures
I
> > took you can find it too..
> > However, It was not something that you would normaly think about.
> > Lets see who can guess what it was.....
> I don't see a link to the pictures on usenet. Is this being posted via
> some forum? What is an http link to the pictures?
> --
> ---
> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
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From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Fri, May 19 2006 3:58 am
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That smell is your installation.
Have a look at;
<http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j103/GGhio/>
Yours and mine. Two control panels. Side by side. Says it all really.
Ya all have a nice day now.
- Hide quoted text -
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Merlin-7 KI4ILB wrote:
> George, dont you live in a trailer? Like lot 11 ?
> But you are an expert on solar systems?
> Something smells here...
> Joe
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From: beemerwacker - view profile
Date: Fri, May 19 2006 6:04 am
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See George, that wasn't so hard was it? However, we can only see the
pretty covers so now you need to take them off so we can see the ghetto
wires behind it.
Reply
From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Fri, May 19 2006 6:48 am
Email: George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
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Even then there is very little to see as everything is in conduit
inside
the concrete and stone wall. But then you can keep checking back to see
more of my building efforts.
Ya all have a nice day now. And one day you might show us your god
awful
mess.
- Hide quoted text -
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beemerwacker wrote:
> See George, that wasn't so hard was it? However, we can only see the
> pretty covers so now you need to take them off so we can see the ghetto
> wires behind it.
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: Solar Flare - view profile
Date: Fri, May 19 2006 5:32 pm
Email: "Solar Flare" <solf...@hotomale.invalid>
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Need to have pictures of the electrons flowing or you are only lying
about equipment that isn't really hooked up.
wmjoff (sarc)...LOL
"George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
news:446da...@news.chariot.net.au...
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> Even then there is very little to see as everything is in conduit
> inside the concrete and stone wall. But then you can keep checking
> back to see more of my building efforts.
> Ya all have a nice day now. And one day you might show us your god
> awful mess.
> beemerwacker wrote:
>> See George, that wasn't so hard was it? However, we can only see
>> the
>> pretty covers so now you need to take them off so we can see the
>> ghetto
>> wires behind it.
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From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Fri, May 19 2006 6:07 pm
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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George...
I would really like to see a picture of your battery bank,
really...not
being mean or any thing.
I do like the way your set up looks. However, I will not place all my
wiring in conduit until I know how far I am going with this. What
started
out as 45 watts of panels and 2 optima batteries to run my ham gear in
an
emergency, sky warn etc. Has ended up having to switch to wet cell
batteries, 315 watts of panels and a 30 amp charge controller (so far).
I do not want to run all the conduit and wiring just to change it all
in 9
months.
My panels will most likely end up on my roof however I need to replace
the
shingles on it in the next few years, so I do not want to place them on
the
roof just to remove them and replace them again.
For the $1,800 I have spent on my system so far I think I did well.
Yes I am still learning. I never claimed to be an expert. I do know
however
what works for a limited amount of money. You see George some of us can
only
spend money on PV a little at a time for different reasons. My wife has
had
cancer twice and the 2nd time we had no insurance so I had to refinance
my
home just to pay the medical bills. Most of us here are in the same
boat,
more or less. If we were not we would simply buy a prepackaged system
and
hook it up.
All of us here are more that willing to hear your ideas on things but
you
are no help at all when you just state that our systems suck.
I think that I can state from all of us that we would honestly listen
to
your input if you did not feel the need to insult everyone here.
If you really do know a better way of doing something why not just
help
them ?
I myself find that I feel better inside when I help someone vs.. when
I
insult someone. life is too short for that kind of stuff.
I also want to say that I am sorry for some of my posts directed at
you. I
have no ill will to you or any one else here.
Joe
"George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
news:446da...@news.chariot.net.au...
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> Even then there is very little to see as everything is in conduit inside
> the concrete and stone wall. But then you can keep checking back to see
> more of my building efforts.
> Ya all have a nice day now. And one day you might show us your god awful
> mess.
> beemerwacker wrote:
> > See George, that wasn't so hard was it? However, we can only see the
> > pretty covers so now you need to take them off so we can see the ghetto
> > wires behind it.
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From: wmbjk - view profile
Date: Fri, May 19 2006 6:42 pm
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On Fri, 19 May 2006 20:48:10 +1000, George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
wrote:
>That smell is your installation.
>Have a look at;
<http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j103/GGhio/>
Wayne
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From: wmbjk - view profile
Date: Fri, May 19 2006 6:59 pm
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On Fri, 19 May 2006 22:07:36 GMT, "Merlin-7 KI4ILB"
<merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
> All of us here are more that willing to hear your ideas on things but you
>are no help at all when you just state that our systems suck.
> I think that I can state from all of us that we would honestly listen to
>your input if you did not feel the need to insult everyone here.
Speak for yourself. The only interest I have in Grorge's opinion is
how far it can be kicked. Others simply killfile him.
> If you really do know a better way of doing something why not just help
>them ?
Because he *doesn't* know any better ways, and in fact holds the
record here for posting mistakes and bad advice. That leads to
corrections which he can't handle. Perhaps you corrected him in the
past, or maybe he thought you were too chummy with someone who'd
corrected him. Whatever, it's what he's always done here. Don't sweat
being on his attack-list, you're in good company.
Wayne
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From: Merlin-7 KI4ILB - view profile
Date: Fri, May 19 2006 8:25 pm
Email: "Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com>
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Joe
"wmbjk" <wmbjkREM...@citlink.net> wrote in message
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- Hide quoted text -
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> On Fri, 19 May 2006 20:48:10 +1000, George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
> wrote:
> >That smell is your installation.
> >Have a look at;
> <http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j103/GGhio/>
> Wayne
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From: Solar Flare - view profile
Date: Fri, May 19 2006 10:47 pm
Email: "Solar Flare" <solf...@hotomale.invalid>
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George is a little crabby usually. This is mostly the result of having
some desert rat, know-it-all, asshole, without a life, dog you for
three or four years online. It becomes a conditioned response.
"Merlin-7 KI4ILB" <merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
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> Joe
> "wmbjk" <wmbjkREM...@citlink.net> wrote in message
> news:pahs62hrn6hf8eeh4...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 19 May 2006 20:48:10 +1000, George Ghio
>> <A...@nomailhere.com>
>> wrote:
>> >That smell is your installation.
>> >Have a look at;
>> <http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j103/GGhio/>
>> Wayne
Reply Rate this post:
From: beemerwacker - view profile
Date: Fri, May 19 2006 11:08 pm
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Well, back to our regularly scheduled thread, which is why the AGM
failed.......
Reply
From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Sat, May 20 2006 4:25 am
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a
George
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From: wmbjk - view profile
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On Sat, 20 May 2006 00:25:39 GMT, "Merlin-7 KI4ILB"
<merli...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>Honestly
> I think that George has run away more people trying to learn about home
>brew solar systems than all of us could help.
Yup. And discouraging people from posting pictures makes him even more
of a prick than usual. Perhaps when others post pictures it makes him
feel inadequate in that even something so simple is yet another thing
beyond his ability. Except for when he thinks <snorf> that posting
photos will rehabilitate his rep somehow, then whatdaya' know, all of
a sudden he can manage. To all readers - feel free to post your
pictures, it's something that most of us encourage and enjoy. To
Grorge - not having a digital camera is no excuse. Here's
http://tinyurl.com/gryo2 where some time ago I pointed you to some
cheap cameras that would be plenty good enough for web pics. Or spend
$50 for something much better, or try acting human and somebody might
donate one of their hand-me-downs. Or scan your existing prints, or
take a new roll of film and scan those prints. Anyway you slice it the
only thing stopping you is that you're afraid that after years of
criticizing others, you'd be in for some straight talk that your
sniveling little weasel brain couldn't handle.
Wayne
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From: wmbjk - view profile
Date: Sat, May 20 2006 10:20 am
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On Fri, 19 May 2006 22:47:06 -0400, "Solar Flare"
Wayne
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From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Sat, May 20 2006 12:32 pm
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Where did I ever discourage anyone from posting photos. There are at
least hundreds if not thousands of photos posted by people who use
these
groups. If you post something you must expect to get feedback,
sometimes
the feedback is not what you would like.
The real problem is that you had to pull your site because you could
not
document your system. And for that matter you still can't.
That's not my fault, it's yours. Sure you can blame me but it won't
change the fact that you copied your system from a magazine, then had
to
keep adding panels until you could at least work during the day.
Two days autonomy. It's not that hard, except that you can't weigh it
so
you can't explain it.
And to save you any mental strain reading another post, when I buy a
digital camera it will be the one I want. You have no part in the
decision.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> Wayne
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: wmbjk - view profile
Date: Sat, May 20 2006 6:25 pm
Email: wmbjk <wmbjkREM...@citlink.net>
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On Sun, 21 May 2006 02:32:45 +1000, George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
wrote:
>Where did I ever discourage anyone from posting photos.
Oh sure Grorge, it never crossed your mind that slamming people
discourages both the slammee and folks with similar setups. Nobody is
fooled, and it's fitting that your attacks and blunders have helped
push you into a new career. Which you apparently intend to flub in
much less time than you spent circling the drain with solar.
> There are at
>least hundreds if not thousands of photos posted by people who use these
>groups. If you post something you must expect to get feedback, sometimes
>the feedback is not what you would like.
Only a small percentage of posters are willing to share their photos.
Wayne
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: William P. N. Smith - view profile
Date: Sat, May 20 2006 7:13 pm
Email: William P.N. Smith <news20...@compusmiths.com>
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wmbjk <wmbjkREM...@citlink.net> wrote:
>Oh sure Grorge, it never crossed your mind that slamming people
>discourages both the slammee and folks with similar setups.
Oh, I dunno, I'm thinking it's more the difficulty of posting the
pictures in some kind of coherent framework and keeping them up to
date. Not that it's hard, but it takes hours to do right, there's no
real payback, and there are a lot of other things to do with my time
(yeah, including wasting way too many hours of it on Usenet. 8*)
George is in my killfile, so I'm hardly 'afraid' of him dissing my
efforts. Just one opinion.
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: Solar Flare - view profile
Date: Sat, May 20 2006 7:57 pm
Email: "Solar Flare" <solf...@hotomale.invalid>
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Wayne is the only moron not in your killfile according to your post
history.
Not worth the reading.
"William P.N. Smith" <news20...@compusmiths.com> wrote in message
news:gb8v6217s9b5si419...@4ax.com...
- Hide quoted text -
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> wmbjk <wmbjkREM...@citlink.net> wrote:
>>Oh sure Grorge, it never crossed your mind that slamming people
>>discourages both the slammee and folks with similar setups.
> Oh, I dunno, I'm thinking it's more the difficulty of posting the
> pictures in some kind of coherent framework and keeping them up to
> date. Not that it's hard, but it takes hours to do right, there's
> no
> real payback, and there are a lot of other things to do with my time
> (yeah, including wasting way too many hours of it on Usenet. 8*)
> George is in my killfile, so I'm hardly 'afraid' of him dissing my
> efforts. Just one opinion.
Reply Rate this post: Text for clearing space
From: beemerwacker - view profile
Date: Sat, May 20 2006 10:25 pm
Email: "beemerwacker" <43.kit...@gmail.com>
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Well, I guess I have my answer to the whole thing. Here's a selected
series of quotes from the blunder down under from just this one thread:
>Your whole installation smacks of the third world.
>Want to see waynes site? All you have to do is fail a maths test.
>You can't do it though can you. The big bad design copier is just a fraud.
>That smell is your installation.
and the defining moment, sort of Al Gore like in it's scope:
>Where did I ever discourage anyone from posting photos. There are at
>least hundreds if not thousands of photos posted by people who use these
>groups. If you post something you must expect to get feedback, sometimes
>the feedback is not what you would like.
"the feedback is not what you would like." Hmmmm. Interesting. But in
the end, he's right. We're all nothing but a bunch of slack assed,
dumb, system copying, idiotic, dumbshit, cretins. Sad really, the
entire population of Usenet reduced to only one person who knows what
they are doing. If you'll excuse me, I've got a few hundred photos to
upload.
Reply
From: George Ghio - view profile
Date: Sat, May 20 2006 10:58 pm
Email: George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
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Now all you have to do is connect the quotes to the right people. And
of
course post some pictures so I can pass judgement on your ability.
But then you have seen what you are up against so it will come as no
surprise when no pics are forthcoming.
beemerwacker wrote:
> Well, I guess I have my answer to the whole thing. Here's a selected
> series of quotes from the blunder down under from just this one thread:
>>Your whole installation smacks of the third world.
Merlin
>>Want to see waynes site? All you have to do is fail a maths test.
wayne
>>You can't do it though can you. The big bad design copier is just a fraud.
>>That smell is your installation.
wayne
> and the defining moment, sort of Al Gore like in it's scope:
>>Where did I ever discourage anyone from posting photos. There are at
>>least hundreds if not thousands of photos posted by people who use these
>>groups. If you post something you must expect to get feedback, sometimes
>>the feedback is not what you would like.
Anybody who posts a "Look what I did" brag page.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
beemerwacker
beemerwacker
needs help.
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] TeX to word on Mac
From: "George Ghio"
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:23:00 +1000
Bob
Thank you, I was sure that was right. Doesn't work It makes the DVI
file
but not the html. It seems that I have a problem with finding files.
Working on it. Thank you very much for your help.
George L Ghio
----------------------------------
On Jun 24, 2005, at 5:14 AM, George Ghio wrote:
I may be slow but I will get there. The file to convert is the
"source" file not the "output"(PDF) file?
And thank you for putting up with my ignorance.
George L Ghio
----------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] TeX to word on Mac
From: "Rene Borgella"
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:49:45 -0400
George:
You report still having problems converting LaTex to html (on your
way to Word :(
Bob
Thank you,I was sure that was right. Doesn't work It makes the DVI
file but not the html. It seems that I have a problem with finding
files. Working on it. Thank you very much for your help.
George L Ghio
George Ghio
George Ghio
George Ghio
wmbjk wrote:
> On Thu, 18 May 2006 00:52:00 +1000, George Ghio <A...@nomailhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>So you see, you are mistaken.
>
>
> My site has always been available to anyone interested.
> http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/solar30.htm
This is of course a blatant lie as anyone who has been around these
groups for any time will know.
So we are back to waynes numbers that describe what his system does.
Well, according to the information supplied:
Fridge - 1.2kWh/day
Space heating - 750W, a totally useless number without the time used.
Cooking - No numbers at all
Laundry - No numbers at all
Sat receiver - 30W x 24H = .720kWh
DVR - 25W x 24H = .600kWh
Computer - No numbers at all
Lighting - No numbers at all
Shop - No numbers at all except that the compressor is 4hp
Misc - No numbers at all
Idol loads - No numbers at all
The total load defined is 2.529kWh/day. This number
Total input is claimed to be between 10and 20 kWh/day.
If we say an average of 15kWh/day input. That leaves us with a further
12.471kWh/day unaccounted for. For a person who owns a watt meter this
is unbelievable.
Wayne, YOUR NUMBERS STILL DO NOT ADD UP. NO HOPE, NOT A CLUE.
beemerwacker
http://www.ajsmoc.com/janfebmar99.html
500 G9 Super Clubman 1951 Sort of. Can give advice on electronic
ignition and leather work. Have built bike from scratch.
George Ghio <gh...@goldnet.com.au>
---------------------------------
If that's not bad enough, check this out:
http://www.ahapoetry.com/oma1205B.htm
Honest to God, click the link:
Morning
George Ghio
lips and tongue on breast
lovers enjoy warm embrace
morning, run rats race
beemerwacker
advise, you're a sweet guy. But when you are looked to for giving
advice you do it with insults. Why is that?
beemerwacker
trash and now you don't post. Giddyaup, let's go. You're a sweet guy
when you need advice but when your expertise is needed you trash
people. Why?
beemerwacker
breasts thing. Georgie, we need advice, nice advice like what you ask
for, not that crap that you give. Come on man, doing a walkabout around
the trailer doesn't count.
beemerwacker
we are, most of us in the U.S. (we invented Usenet) and old Georgie is
half a world away spouting about what we're doing wrong and we have the
damn NEC codebook at hand. Oh, that would be great, getting red tagged
and telling the inspector, "but Georgie said it was wrong. Georgie says
you have nothing to back you up."
Come on George, why are you so nice when you seek advice but insult
when your advice is
needed? Good God, another half hour gone by without help from you. I'm
dying here.
George Ghio
First line 5 syllables
Second line 7 syllables
Third line 5 syllables
As in
Caress
George Ghio
My lovers soft touch
as she moves in our shared bed
Summers warm caress
Let me know if you ever work out what it means.
Oh yeah, Off topic as well.
George Ghio
has already been answered.
What a git.
William P.N. Smith
too much attention to) someone who doesn't matter. The killfile is
your friend.
wmbjk
<news...@compusmiths.com> wrote:
>wmbjk <wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote:
>>Oh sure Grorge, it never crossed your mind that slamming people
>>discourages both the slammee and folks with similar setups.
>
>Oh, I dunno, I'm thinking it's more the difficulty of posting the
>pictures in some kind of coherent framework and keeping them up to
>date. Not that it's hard, but it takes hours to do right,
Occasionally I drop a few photos onto a page and upload with Smart
FTP. Like this one http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/welding_equipment.htm
Perhaps 5 minutes to compose and upload.
> there's no
>real payback,
You might think of building on the experience of others as payment in
advance. ;-) I learned a lot from people who shared details of
their setups. Even though our own plans were somewhat unique, it was
still helpful to read about systems large and small. Same with other
subjects. For example, a couple years ago I saw a photo of a project
with a modified ratchet strap incorporated. Simple enough, but
something I hadn't thought of doing. I've used that technique to good
effect on two projects since.
>and there are a lot of other things to do with my time
>(yeah, including wasting way too many hours of it on Usenet. 8*)
Of course everyone has a personal privacy level and other demands on
their time. I encourage others to share, but I don't hold it against
them if they can't or won't. But exceptions are appropriate for the
hypocrite doing the criticizing, and Gymmy Bob who's a nym-shifting
fraud.
Wayne
wmbjk
wrote:
>Oh, we're stupid shits, but he's a mr. nice guy here too:
>
>http://www.ajsmoc.com/janfebmar99.html
>
>500 G9 Super Clubman 1951 Sort of. Can give advice on electronic
>ignition and leather work. Have built bike from scratch.
>George Ghio <gh...@goldnet.com.au>
He build a bike "from scratch"? Quite an accomplishment. I wonder if
he runs his foundry from the PV or the generator. Of course "from
scratch" may just be poor writing, perhaps he might find an editor on
Alibaba. :-)
>
>---------------------------------
>
>If that's not bad enough, check this out:
>
>http://www.ahapoetry.com/oma1205B.htm
>Honest to God, click the link:
>
>Morning
>George Ghio
>lips and tongue on breast
>lovers enjoy warm embrace
>morning, run rats race
Yes, a true Renaissance nitwit. Here's an infinitely more creative
effort from Nick Pine in 2000 http://tinyurl.com/zggos
************
I am the very model of a Solar Power Consultant.
I've information secret, and I lead an ozzie cargo cult.
I know the PV panel specs and quote their output powerful
In amps and volts and watts but rarely energy watt-hourful
[chorus...]
When I know more of power than a politician's concubine,
When I know more of energy than people like old Nicky Pine,
When I've a taste for laws like Ohm's and battery environments,
You'll say a Solar Power Consultant has never made more sense...
[chorus]
*************
Wayne
Tony Wesley
George Ghio wrote:
> Don't know why you don't read the posts you respond to but the question
> has already been answered.
Once again, bravely goes Sir George run away.
> What a git.
Yes, you are.
George Ghio
in response to the same question. Not my fault if the senile bugger
repeats himself endlessly or can't remember his own posts.
George Ghio
question was answered.
George Ghio
twelve and a half kW hours. No surprise there.
George Ghio
question was answered the first time he asked it. See post "21/5/06
2:32pm". You could be forgiven for thinking that these groups are full
of cowardly lions, straw men and tin woodsmen.
wmbjk
wrote:
>Well as you can see Tony Wesley has run away
>Beemerwanker seems to have done a runner as well
>Looks like wayne has done a runner
Sure Grorge, your magnificent debating skills have vanquished all
comers. It's just that all of those arguments in all of your posts
with all of your explanations of all of your blunders, have somehow
vanished into the ether. Leaving only the weasely forgeries written by
your evil twin, the one who misspells your name as "George". You
shouldn't allow this mysterious travesty to stand. I suggest you use
the coppers you were saving up for that digital camera (for when they
finally become affordable?) to hire Alan Clouseau, famous header
detective.
Wayne
Tony Wesley
> Well as you can see Tony Wesley has run away rather than admit that the
> question was answered.
I'm still here.
"No, you don't have a clue. I will not discuss this topic with you
simply
because you have not exhibited any ability in the so called design of
your own system."
-- George Ghio, as he ran away (bravely).
George Ghio
Now, what about that missing 12.47 kWhs.
You have a watt meter, why don't you have the numbers?
Your site is a typical "Look what I've done" site.
So it is a fair question when I ask "What have you in fact done?"
What does your system actually run?
What is the reduced load that gives 2 days autonomy? To what DOD?
What is the load that gives 7 days autonomy? To what DOD?
Do you in fact know any of these things?
There are only two choices;
1) Put your running shoes on.
2) Provide the information.
As I have said before, you have an interesting system that could be a
great learning tool for people who want to understand solar power design.
It begs the question, "What are you hiding?" The fact that you need to
do 80% of your jobs during daylight hours? That's no secret, it's the
most obvious thing your site says about your system.
So we are back to waynes numbers that describe what his system does.
Well, according to the information supplied on his site:
Fridge - 1.2kWh/day
Space heating - 750W, a totally useless number without the time used.
Cooking - No numbers at all
Laundry - No numbers at all
Sat receiver - 30W x 24H = .720kWh
DVR - 25W x 24H = .600kWh
Computer - No numbers at all
Lighting - No numbers at all
Shop - No numbers at all except that the compressor is 4hp
Misc - No numbers at all
Idle loads - No numbers at all
The total load defined is 2.529kWh/day.
Total input is claimed to be between 10 and 20 kWh/day.
If we say an average of 15kWh/day input. That leaves us with a further
12.471kWh/day unaccounted for. For a person who owns a watt meter this
is unbelievable.
Wayne, YOUR NUMBERS STILL DO NOT ADD UP. NO HOPE, NOT A CLUE.
George Ghio
had already answered beemerwankers question.
Which of course has nothing to do with my, or anybody else's system.
Then there is the fact that my system specs have been posted in these
groups many times, as has my total energy use for everything I use in my
day to day living, also several times.
Tony Wesley
George Ghio wrote:
> Ah, I see, you won't discuss why you accused me of running away when I
> had already answered beemerwankers question.
Because you didn't answer his question. You posted a reply, a
non-sequitur.
But no answer to the question. Sir George does run away.
George Ghio
advise, you're a sweet guy. But when you are looked to for giving
advice you do it with insults. Why is that?
2) Come on, Georgie. Take you 2 minutes to respond to something you can
trash and now you don't post. Giddyaup, let's go. You're a sweet guy
when you need advice but when your expertise is needed you trash
people. Why?
3) While waiting for Georgie to respond, I just had a wild thought. Here
we are, most of us in the U.S. (we invented Usenet) and old Georgie is
half a world away spouting about what we're doing wrong and we have the
damn NEC codebook at hand. Oh, that would be great, getting red tagged
and telling the inspector, "but Georgie said it was wrong. Georgie says
you have nothing to back you up."
Come on George, why are you so nice when you seek advice but insult
when your advice is
needed? Good God, another half hour gone by without help from you. I'm
dying here.
Yep, I give what I get.
Seems to answer the question.
And you seem to be an ignorant toad in running shoes.
beemerwacker wrote:
Seems to answer the question.
wmbjk
wrote:
Mission Accomplished
foes averred smote
yet bolts fly still,
ouch that hurts!
- Grorge Ghio, Renaissance nitwit
Hey, that reminds me Grorge. Tony's quote refers to the time you ran
away after claiming you'd eventually be supplying some "logged data"
to explain that incoherent three-hour battery charging story. This
seems an appropriate time and place to post it. Or will you be running
away from your own story again as you did with your recent 15V float
recommendation?
Wayne
George Ghio
charger.
Not much point until then unless you think that;
SOC 100%
BATV 12.9
CHARGER V 16
CHARGER RUN TIME 30 SECONDS
Is worth anything.
That's the kind of crap found on your site, speaking of which, I see you
chose your runners rather that the numbers.
What's the matter, afraid you'll wear out your watt meter if you use it.
2) Provide the information.
Fridge - 1.2kWh/day
wmbjk wrote:
snip
beemerwacker
question. You're nice when you ask a question but mean when you answer
one, why?
Hey, Wayne! How's it going? Thanks for keeping him here, the rest of
the threads are going great right now.
George
This sour child whispers
Vibrating evil stares,
A laugh across the earth.
Crap, I hate Haiku! George, do the Chinese know about your worthless
attempt at Haiku? They hate the Japanese you know.
Max
Solar Flare
"beemerwacker" <43.k...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148516558.9...@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
George Ghio
You second and third lines have six syllables. Guess you fail to
convince here as well
frank...@gmail.com
fine country.
I can only apologise to the other incredibly helpful members of this
fine group and offer my own humble Haiku.
His ill manners show
a lack of humanity
little friends has he
George Ghio
count?
Or embarrassment because I answered him twice?
Or embarrassment because I pointed out that waynes site lacks
significant data?
This motley crew of wannabes has been stalking me across the web for
weeks in the hopes of finding fault. And the result, beemerwanker
doesn't like my Haiku.
Now that's a hoot.
Then you come along and write derogatory verse, putting yourself on the
same level as beemerwanker. At least yours is quite good. Myself I would
have used humility in place of humanity.
humility - noun: A disposition to be humble; a lack of false pride.
humanity - noun: All of the inhabitants of the earth.
On the subject of embarrassment to the nation, which is worse; My being
a expat yank and having to admit to GWB (the worlds #1 mental midget) or
you being aussi and having to admit to JWH (the worlds #1 brownsnout)
Bit of a toss up there, eh.
Tony Wesley
> beemerwanker wrote:
> > George, are you still blathering here? All you have to do is answer the
> > question. You're nice when you ask a question but mean when you answer
> > one, why?
> Yep, I give what I get. For the second time.
Again, not a reply to the question. Non sequitur. Besides, it's a
lie.
Back to the topic of this thread, I notice that our ex-pat solar
consultant threw many insults at the original poster but failed to
identify the problem.
The OP asked sincerely and politely. And runaway George started the
insults. George didn't "give what he got."
wmbjk
wrote:
>George, are you still blathering here? All you have to do is answer the
>question.
No! The great and powerful Oz must not be pestered! Ignore that man
behind the curtain!
>Hey, Wayne! How's it going?
Very well thanks. Lots of sun and wind. Only problem is a pair of
flycatchers who insist on building their nest on top of the light
fixture outside the front door. I've been tearing down their work to
discourage them, but they won't take the hint. So I'm calling them
Grorge and Gymmy. :-)
> Thanks for keeping him here,
If only. Soon enough he'll be inventing fault somewhere else.
Wayne
wmbjk
wrote:
>Yes that data will be posted, as I said when I next have to run the
>charger.
It's *your* story about running the generator in the past. There isn't
any need to run the generator again in order to explain what already
happened, and nobody is going to believe you haven't run it in the
last seven months anyway. Fabricating new BS stories to weasel out of
correcting your old blunders is pathetic. Six years ago your crap
about the 300K wire didn't pass muster here and made you a laughing
stock. So why do you believe that your generator story or the 15V
float recommendation will fare any better?
Wayne
wmbjk
wrote:
>frank...@gmail.com wrote:
>> George, speaking as a fellow Australian you are embarrasment to this
>> fine country.
>>
>> I can only apologise to the other incredibly helpful members of this
>> fine group and offer my own humble Haiku.
>>
>> His ill manners show
>> a lack of humanity
>> little friends has he
>Do you mean embarrassment because I pointed out that beemerwanker can't
>count?
>
>Or embarrassment because I answered him twice?
>
>Or embarrassment because I pointed out that waynes site lacks
>significant data?
No George, he means embarrassment at all the silly attempts to divert
attention from your own blunders.
>This motley crew of wannabes has been stalking me across the web for
>weeks in the hopes of finding fault.
When you announced that you'd overflown another's very remote home on
the opposite side of the planet, you claimed that wasn't stalking
because the home just happened to be on the way to somewhere you just
happened to be going. <snorf> Yet should anyone even google your name,
*that's* stalking? Typical hypocrite Ghioism.
> And the result, beemerwanker
>doesn't like my Haiku.
No, the result of your inventing fault with yet another poster is that
several more turned on you, including Steve. Try reading his poem
again nitwit.
>Now that's a hoot.
>
>Then you come along and write derogatory verse, putting yourself on the
>same level as beemerwanker. At least yours is quite good.
If only your opinion counted for anything...
> Myself I would
>have used humility in place of humanity.
>
>
>humility - noun: A disposition to be humble; a lack of false pride.
>
>humanity - noun: All of the inhabitants of the earth.
>
>On the subject of embarrassment to the nation, which is worse; My being
>a expat yank and having to admit to GWB (the worlds #1 mental midget)
Wrong again Grorge. As much of an embarrassment as GW is, there's no
way he's behind you on the list of pigheaded boobs.
Wayne
Tony Wesley
>[...]Myself I would
> have used humility in place of humanity.
>
>
> humility - noun: A disposition to be humble; a lack of false pride.
>
> humanity - noun: All of the inhabitants of the earth.
Typical ignorance from George.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/humanity
1 : the quality or state of being humane
2 a : the quality or state of being human b plural : human attributes
or qualities <his work has the ripeness of the 18th century, and its
rough humanities -- Pamela H. Johnson>
3 plural : the branches of learning (as philosophy, arts, or languages)
that investigate human constructs and concerns as opposed to natural
processes (as in physics or chemistry) and social relations (as in
anthropology or economics)
4 : MANKIND
Solar Flare
You are all idiots. This has been going on for years here and all of
you are dirty. learn something for once in your life. Wayne is a troll
and has nothing of value to add. You are a cry baby and fall for his
bait.
"George Ghio" <A...@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
news:44756...@news.chariot.net.au...