Another "what to charge ?"
Joy Hardie
others again...but this time trying to be profitable. So, even after
reading the many posts on this subject I have another question....
When purchasing special items for a project...ie. wooly nylon for the
serger in a special color or a new pattern specific to the
project....how do you charge to recover these costs? Normally I used
to not charge extra for thread.....or my basic patterns, but there are
times when you have to make an investment in a new color or a new
pattern.....that you will obviously not be using up and can use for
future projects. Would you pass the cost along to the customer or
pro-rate based on how much you actually used for that project?
When a serger takes 4 cones of thread....the investment is
considerable when a project demands a new color that isn't in the
sewing room inventory. Any ideas or help?
Joy
NormanNotsam
Regarding serger, don't try and match the colour perfectly. Usually it's a
seam not seen. Use the closest you can find.
Best wishes
Norman
small change
Thread is an expense . You can charge them for it if you want, but you will
be using it in more that one project most likely. Charge enough to allow
for "expenses" like thread and needles. You can also figure thread as an
operating expense.
Penny
Joy Hardie
I am mostly sewing for skaters and dancers and with the postitions
they get into....almost all the seams are seen (o.k., maybe not up
close). Anyway, I was mostly thinking of the wooly nylon because I do
rolled hems and finish work with it and it comes to about $10 for the
two cones if I need a new color. I just guess the thread and pattern
costs are hitting me on the two projects that came to me this
week....one I felt compelled to buy a new pattern rather than spend a
bunch of time drafting my own...and the other needed hot pink and
bright yellow wooly nylon threads. So, if I don't recoup those
costs...I am not going to see much profit on these projects. I guess
if I charge a pro-rated amount then sooner or later I make it
up....but just don't know how many things will need these threads.
Joy
On 23 Oct 2004 22:38:15 GMT, norman...@aol.com (NormanNotsam)
wrote:
small change
> Hi Norman,
> I am mostly sewing for skaters and dancers and with the postitions
> they get into....almost all the seams are seen (o.k., maybe not up
> close). Anyway, I was mostly thinking of the wooly nylon because I do
> rolled hems and finish work with it and it comes to about $10 for the
> two cones if I need a new color. I just guess the thread and pattern
> costs are hitting me on the two projects that came to me this
> week....one I felt compelled to buy a new pattern rather than spend a
> bunch of time drafting my own...and the other needed hot pink and
> bright yellow wooly nylon threads. So, if I don't recoup those
> costs...I am not going to see much profit on these projects. I guess
> if I charge a pro-rated amount then sooner or later I make it
> up....but just don't know how many things will need these threads.
> Joy
>
you have to consider in an expense of just getting started, an investment if
you will. Look at it another way; once you absorb the cost of 5 or six
different colors, then you will have a good supply of colors that maybe only
had to be replaces once or twice a year. Wooly nylon runs about 5 $ for a
1000 yard cone, that is a LOT of thread. Also, you can buy a lot of
different color neutrals instead of going for an exact match every time.
Really, if you are running wooly nylon in your loopers, that's an extra $10
per project for maybe 5 or 6 projects until you build up your supply.
Your clients should be buying the pattern, not you. For most manufacturers,
that is how you get around the whole copyright thing, each person buys the
pattern for individual use. If you are building a library of styles to
have on hand, again, that is an expense of getting started. Sometimes it
takes a while to start showing a profit as you build up your business.
Penny S
Penny S
Joy
that I don't think I'll use the color again, I buy one spool and wind it
onto as many spools as I need. I save empty thread and serger spools for
this very reason. You can either use regular spools and fill them on your
sewing machine bobbin filler and that spool filler adapter that I can't
remember the name of right now - it's usually available from Nancy's Notions
and Clotilde. Or use a power screw driver that has a slow speed and a dowel
to hold the spool. The spool needs to be a tight fit on the dowel to keep
it from spinner, so either wrap a rubber band around it or some felt.
Joy
mamahays
color it is. If it's a "staple" color, like white, ecru, black, etc. I buy
it and "eat" the cost. If it's something that I Know I will never use
again, I add it to my client's shopping list. Then when I'm done with the
project, I give it to them. Same with scraps of their fabric and their
pattern.
Do remember that if you are using commercial patterns, you need to have your
client purchase the pattern. And that particular pattern can only be used
for that client. That makes the pattern companies happy. Buying one
pattern and using it for 12 different people makes them rather cranky.
Is all that clear as mud? lol
Sharon
--
---
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and just annoys the
pig."
Joy Hardie
Interesting. The way I have been doing it is that if the client
buys the fabric and brings it to me.....then I have been obviously
returning the leftovers to them. But, on the other hand, if I have
hunted down the fabric myself with my time and gas.....then I have
been keeping the scraps in my personal remnant bin. I don't
"up-charge" on any of the materials...and usually just pro-rate the
bill for what I actually used on their project.
As for patterns....I draft all the patterns from ones in my
collection....you know, a sleeve here and a skirt style there...that
sort of thing. I don't ever just make whatever any given pattern is.
It would be great if a client wanted something off a pattern and they
happen to be the right size etc....but mostly they draw a picture and
I start hunting through my stash for "components." Anyone visiting my
basement would agree....the pattern companies are NOT going to be
angry with me.....I BUY way more patterns than I ever use. Strange, I
just like collecting them, and I seem to have some fantasy notion that
I might actually sew them all one day. Call it motivation or
inspiration....whatever, I buy into it.
That being said, after I have drafted a pattern for a client....I do
charge them about $10 for my pattern making time, but then I KEEP THE
PATTERN. Even though they have basically paid for it...I don't think
I have charged them enough to give it to them. Heck, then they have a
perfect pattern for their body that they can take to any other
seamstress and duplicate my efforts.
Finally, do you think it is o.k. if an estimate runs over? Everyone
wants something uniique and I am always testing new techniques and
designs....so manufacturing time is unpredictable. I seem to always
underestimate my labor. I hate to inflate the estimate...but on the
other hand I hate to come back to them and say there was a cost
over-run.
Joy
mamahays
news:oqk1o01ntc1qt0qeu...@4ax.com...
> Finally, do you think it is o.k. if an estimate runs over? Everyone
> wants something uniique and I am always testing new techniques and
> designs....so manufacturing time is unpredictable. I seem to always
> underestimate my labor. I hate to inflate the estimate...but on the
> other hand I hate to come back to them and say there was a cost
> over-run.
> Joy
>
Well, this is another situation that doesn't, IMO, have a one size fits all
answer.
If I run over time because I made a mistake and have to redo, that's my
fault. My clients never get charged for that. Also, when I do a custom
design, I don't charge them for fit type altering. I usually am really
close on fit anyway. But I do make mistakes, and I don't charge for that.
Now, if they go on a crash diet and I have to redo because of that, you bet
your boots that I will charge more. I tell them that too. (Usually, I tell
them that 5 lbs. gained or lost can mean a full size change on an average
sized woman. I also usually insist at the initial meeting that they not
change their diet/exercise routine while the garment is being made. And I
stress that I will add to their labor charges if they break this rule.
Upfront is almost always the best. Whip out the tape measure and the chart
you made when you first measured them if need be.)
As for design changes that can affect time/money, I have two ways of
handling that also. When they first come to me, we lay out the plan of
attack. All the design elements have to be decided upon BEFORE I start
working. I even have a design sheet that I will do two copies of; one stays
with me, the other goes with my client. We both sign off on each. I attach
drawings and/or pictures to that sheet and I write out any design elements
that are not shown in the pictures. That design is what I base my labor
charges on. I don't deviate from that on my own. If the design sheet says
10 rhinestones around the neckline, I put 10 rhinestones around the
neckline.
If the client, halfway through the process, says "Oh Sharon, could we put 30
rhinestones around the neck? I think it looks pretty this way, but I'd like
more sparkle." I say "well sure we can do that. The rhinestones cost $x
each. So 20 more of them will be $XX. It took me about 30 minutes to put
these 10 on. So if we double that, the labor charge will be $X. That makes
the additional material and labor cost total $XXX." If they agree to that
verbally, then out comes another design sheet. I write it down and we sign
off on that. I staple my amended sheet to the original and drop it in their
file folder.
Now, experimenting falls in the middle. When they come to me for the first
meeting and ask for something I've never done, I tell them that. I tell
them that I can work up some samples, and do some playing around with the
idea. Then when those samples are done, we can meet again to see if they
like the results and we will work that into the garment design. Then I whip
out stuff from my stash and I play with the design ideas. I don't make
anything full sized. If it's a tricky draping idea, I make one in 1/16th or
so scale for a doll that lives in my sewing room. If it's a particular
beading or embellishment method, I do a sample on a piece of fabric similar
in weight and hand to what they want on the garment. This is all stuff that
I dump in the "educational" area of my business. I figure doctors and
lawyers have to do "continuing education" classes throughout their careers.
Why should I be any different? My client doesn't get charged for any of
this. It's just another cost of my business. I don't use high end fabrics
for this. I find cheap substitutes because I know and understand the
differences between poly and silk, etc. So I can usually keep the cost of
my experiments pretty low. By the time I'm done playing with this stuff, I
have a really good idea of how much time I will need for the real work.
This gives me a much better way to estimate the labor for the client's
garment. So it really is a halfway thing. I pay for the learning part of
it. But the client pays for the application of what I learned. (and I've
had a few that insist on paying me for the learning. Or they give me a
substantial "tip" and explain that they want to help offset the cost of my
experimenting on their behalf.)
Too, if you know you are usually short on what you estimate, add to your
estimates at the outset. If you think it will take 8 hours to get something
done, go ahead and quote 10-12 hours to your client. Tell them that you
will track your time (and then do so! Publisher has a template for a time
sheet. I use that and track my hours.) And tell them that if you come in
under that time, their final bill will reflect that. IME, they are always
happy when a project comes in under what the projected cost was. But they
are Never happy when it comes in over the estimate.
Does that help?
Joy Hardie
I can use alot of your information and make it work for me.
I DO have some set designs that the client wants taken from sketch to
their ideal outfit...but most times clients give me a theme or music
and give me free reign to make whatever I want. They might specify
long or short sleeves or color...but many times their main
specification is, "make it unique." They want a style or fabric that
hasn't been around the block a hundred times. I guess that is good
and bad.
I guess the hardest part for me is that I am a "softie." I can't
immagine I would ever pay for a garment what I "should" be
charging....based on the amount of time that I put into it. So, I
tend to under-charge. Even at that, I wouldn't want to pay it! I
guess that's why I started sewing- to get unique custom stuff on the
cheap. (Not that supplies & materials are cheap!!)
Joy
mamahays
> Sharon, that was GREAT!
> I can use alot of your information and make it work for me.
Glad to help! :)
> I DO have some set designs that the client wants taken from sketch to
> their ideal outfit...but most times clients give me a theme or music
> and give me free reign to make whatever I want. They might specify
> long or short sleeves or color...but many times their main
> specification is, "make it unique." They want a style or fabric that
> hasn't been around the block a hundred times. I guess that is good
> and bad.
That is a good thing I think. It's fun to work without a net, so to speak.
;) Do you have them approve your designs before you begin actual
construction? I normally have two meetings with clients when they come to
me with this sort of thing. Mostly the ones I get like that are prom
clients. They want something different. When they come in with no precise
ideas. I sketch and sketch and sketch. I try to do two sets of renderings.
Then I show them swatches. And we work from there. Again, the design sheet
is a huge help in this area. I learned the hard way to NAIL DOWN FIRMLY the
design before I do anything. If you have Publisher on your computer, I can
email you the design sheet I use.
> I guess the hardest part for me is that I am a "softie." I can't
> immagine I would ever pay for a garment what I "should" be
> charging....based on the amount of time that I put into it. So, I
> tend to under-charge. Even at that, I wouldn't want to pay it! I
> guess that's why I started sewing- to get unique custom stuff on the
> cheap. (Not that supplies & materials are cheap!!)
> Joy
Ok. <taking firm hold of both of Joy's hands and staring her directly in
the eye> Here is the A #1 rule about custom sewing: You CANNOT price your
work based on what you are willing/able to pay. You MUST price your work on
what your time is worth to you.
I sew for myself and my family (and sometimes close friends) for free,
because I love to do it. I give them gifts that are made from my love for
them, and designed to suit them personally. I make myself things that are
suited to precisely my own needs. I make myself clothing from fabrics and
styles that speak to me and me alone. (or that just feel wonderful on my
body. lol) That's for fun.
Work is work. Work takes up my time. Work stops me from playing Nintendo
with my son; walking my dog; painting my toenails; etc. So work has to pay
me back for all that. That's why I set my hourly rate high enough to make
it all worth my while. Now, please understand that I LOVE the work I do.
Otherwise, I'd find something else. I love outfitting clients in gorgeous,
custom outfits. But working for my clients does take time away from other
things I could be doing, there's no other way around that.
So toughen up. ;) Your time is valuable. Your skills are not only
valuable, but (in the bigger than this newsgroup world) pretty rare. You
should be paid accordingly.
You know Michigan isn't that far from Indiana. Don't make me drive up there
and shake my finger under your nose. ;)
small change
>
> Work is work. Work takes up my time. Work stops me from playing
> Nintendo with my son; walking my dog; painting my toenails; etc. So
> work has to pay me back for all that. That's why I set my hourly
> rate high enough to make it all worth my while. Now, please
> understand that I LOVE the work I do. Otherwise, I'd find something
> else. I love outfitting clients in gorgeous, custom outfits. But
> working for my clients does take time away from other things I could
> be doing, there's no other way around that.
>
> So toughen up. ;) Your time is valuable. Your skills are not only
> valuable, but (in the bigger than this newsgroup world) pretty rare.
> You should be paid accordingly.
>
> You know Michigan isn't that far from Indiana. Don't make me drive
> up there and shake my finger under your nose. ;)
>
> Sharon
what she said. ;-)
Charlotte
Joy Hardie wrote:
>> Even at that, I wouldn't want to pay it! I
> guess that's why I started sewing- to get unique custom stuff on the
> cheap. (Not that supplies & materials are cheap!!)
> Joy
Joy,
At some point you ought to come to Boston. I don't know why but my local
shop has the most amazing skating fabrics, and all very *different*. My
mother sews my little sister's skating dresses and thinks she could do
it for free by importing two-way stretch fabrics from this shop and
re-selling them in Colorado Springs. We had a really luxurious stretch
velvet for $3.99/yard, my mom says it sells there for $35/yard.
You could pay for your trip AND make more on your work if you had these
cheaper materials and charged the same...
-Charlotte
small change
> Hi Sharon,
I"m going to comment in bits:
But, on the other hand, if I have
> hunted down the fabric myself with my time and gas.....then I have
> been keeping the scraps in my personal remnant bin. I don't
> "up-charge" on any of the materials...and usually just pro-rate the
> bill for what I actually used on their project.
You are selling your self short.... you should mark the fabric up and/or at
least charge for your time to get it ( and keep track of your mileage) . I
mark most fabrics up about 40% (x1.67) and save the scraps for future use.
It's irrelevant if you paid wholesale or retail, it was your time to go get
it.
> That being said, after I have drafted a pattern for a client....I do
> charge them about $10 for my pattern making time, but then I KEEP THE
> PATTERN. Even though they have basically paid for it...I don't think
> I have charged them enough to give it to them. Heck, then they have a
> perfect pattern for their body that they can take to any other
> seamstress and duplicate my efforts.
Most pattern makers make anywhere from $25- 50 an hour depending on skill
and location. I'm pretty sure that legally, if they contract with you to
make the pattern they own it not you. But you can still keep it for them.
> Finally, do you think it is o.k. if an estimate runs over? Everyone
> wants something uniique and I am always testing new techniques and
> designs....so manufacturing time is unpredictable. I seem to always
> underestimate my labor. I hate to inflate the estimate...but on the
> other hand I hate to come back to them and say there was a cost
> over-run.
> Joy
You will get better at this... I never charge for the whole time if I have
to figure something out, but I charge a reasonalbe amount. If a project is
getting way out of hand, I do call the customer and let them know it IS
going to be more. That's only fair to you, as someone who is working to make
$$ ( that is part of the point, right??) Fortunately, I've been doing this a
long time and I dont' have to eat labor costs except on a rare occasion.
Another thing to do is just start charging more to begin with to compensate
for training time, if you can get away with it.
One thing that really helped me get my charges in line and consistent is to
work with a timer. Run a timer for common tasks. If you have to do the
same task several times, take an average. Stop the time for your mistakes
that you have to re do.
Karen M.
...
> I guess the hardest part for me is that I am a "softie." I can't
> immagine I would ever pay for a garment what I "should" be
> charging....based on the amount of time that I put into it. So, I
> tend to under-charge. Even at that, I wouldn't want to pay it! I
> guess that's why I started sewing- to get unique custom stuff on the
> cheap. (Not that supplies & materials are cheap!!)
Noooooo! You need to have held someone's hand for months over the
e-mail, phone calls, and so forth to really appreciate this.
I just did a gig (square dancing) for a mom who had No Idea about
party planning, scheduling, and such. I charged her a lot. (The band I
usually work with gets paid almost this much for playing a gig.) She
was very happy with the level of service I provided, both in the
months leading up to it and at the event.
I have an upcoming gig where the organizer asked question after
question, can I refer her to another group of Scouts who've had me in
for a dance, and so forth, Then she took ill, someone else is
coordinating the event, and she wants me to reduce my fee. I explained
it to her and she replied in the affirmative.
Look at Michelle's Mr Potato Head thread. That fool is going to be
back on her doorstep today or tomorrow, "oh please please please, I
picked up a large brown sack; can't you just adorn it for me for $25
CDN???"
Disclaimer: I have done minimal client sewing gigs. I would price
the job out, and add, say, 20% up front to cover incidentals and the
PITA factor. At the end of the project I would give them a "discount"
if they'd behaved themselves, or if they asked for rhinestones or
something else, I'd include it.
When I was selling gifts at special events, some people would ask
for a discount. If they were buying a bunch of stuff, or things I
wanted to get rid of, I'd knock 10% or a couple $ off. If they'd been
a royal pain, hanging out chatting and acting like my best friend,
then asking for a break, I wouldn't budge.
(All-time favorite: "you have really good prices on 14k pieces."
"Yes, no overhead like a jewelry store." [set up in a parking lot at
an event]
"Will you take (30% less) for this piece?"
"[SNORT]"
Work with Bridezilla sometime and see what you're worth. Or make
that CW outfit for some snob (hey, I can provide a list of names in
Oakland County!!) who wants extra fittings, three bodices, and
matching hair doo-dads, then tries to bring you down to $100 total.
HTH
--Karen M.
dnmgiordano
> Work with Bridezilla sometime and see what you're worth. > --Karen M.
I had to laugh at myself, and you all probably will too. Reading this
(above) I thought maybe it was a company that would consign gowns (no such
service where I live) or maybe rate/critique design skills. So I googled
it. LOL I found out its just a term for hard-to-please. sheesh. Yet
another blonde moment in the life of Michelle.
Hope someone laughs with me!
Michelle Giordano
mamahays
news:POcgd.46434$%k.24828@pd7tw2no...
Count yourself lucky, Michelle!! If you didn't know what a Bridezilla was,
this means you've never met one. LOL There is also Promzilla (impossible to
please prom dress client) Momzilla (this, in my circles, means a MOB (mother
of the bride) or something like that who makes the whole process very ugly.)
It goes on and on. ;)
I've given serious thought to hanging garlic around the windows and doors.
That keeps other nasty, scary things away. Might work. ;)
sewingb...@webtv.net
Re: Another "what to charge ?"
<<penny>>sinv...@cetinvalid.com (small change)
---
<< Penny>> adds:
<<what she said. ;-)
---
Double-Ditto!:
Now, here are a few costs which I know you are not figuring into your
charges, but which I also know you are paying out of your household
pocketbook, as most of us who begin work as a small business do the
same:
Gas, oil, maintenance wear and tear on your personal vehicle;
Acquisition of new equipment and supplies, cost of machine
maintenance and repairs.
Electricity: if you think these costs are minimal, plug in your iron
and go take a look at your meter, if it's one which still uses a dial.
Betcha it's spinning like mad.
Use of household space for sewing business. It costs money to store
stash and patterns.
Income Taxes. Taxes on supplies which you are fronting to the client.
Taxes on the oil, and gas, and heat which you use in your business.
Phone costs. Insurance: anyone working from home, who has clients come
into the home, should carry a rider for protection.
This is a scant list, and most of these costs are 'hidden' costs when
one is running a business from home. Think of what you would have to pay
if you were leasing a space, and figure these costs into your pricing
structure. Like it or not, you actually _are_ paying these costs, and
may actually be working for less than 50 cents an hour, once you figure
your costs to do business.
A couple of good reference books, which can help you get a handle on
the cost of doing business
'Homemade Money', Barbara Brabec: check for newest ISBN, and CD, if I
remember correctly.
'Working From Home', Paul and Sarah Edwards, ISBN#0-87477-475-8.
HTH.
Cea
sewingb...@webtv.net
Re: Another "what to charge ?"
<<kmss...@earthlink.net (Karen M.)
---
<Joy> wrote:
I guess the hardest part for me is that I am a "softie." I can't
immagine I would ever pay for a garment what I "should" be
charging....based on the amount of time that I put into it. So, I tend
to under-charge. Even at that, I wouldn't want to pay it! I guess that's
why I started sewing- to get unique custom stuff on the cheap. (Not that
supplies & materials are cheap!!)
<<Noooooo! You need to have held someone's hand for
months over the e-mail, phone calls, and so forth to really appreciate
this.
<snip Karen's most excellent rant>
---
I have one client, more labor-intensive than most. A lovely person,
but needs a lot of hand-holding. Cannot make a color/fabric decision on
her own. Cannot measure, even with hardware in place.
The one day I accompanied her to choose fabric evolved into a 3/4 day
of work lost.The whole day was a scrub, actually, because I was worn out
by the time I got home. We live in a tri-city area, and the amount of
mileage we covered that day was rather large.
Another day was invested in going to her home to take measurements
and discuss design possibilities for a variety of projects. These are
lost for the workroom, with no way to make up the labor charges.
Now, after taking measurements, you must realize that yardage
requirements vary considerably for home dec projects:
Fabric widths, designs, scale, matching of motifs throughout the
windows in a room, can the fabric be rail-roaded across a piece of
furniture, etc: all things must go into figuring the amount of yardage
one buys.
Invariably, this client then skimps on yardage, and I am left to
spend more time figuring ways/ideas to disguise the shortage, which she
then negates.
A lined-to-edge spread was skimpy because the length as well as the
width of the fabric she bought could not be stretched to quite brush the
floor. It was most important that the motifs match in the top piecing of
the spread, which left insufficient yardage for side length.
I couldn't talk her into a border, or some nice, fat covered welting,
which would have made up the difference, as well as provide a little
oomph.
First thing which caught the critical eye of her husband? Why, the
too-short spread, of course.
I remain chagrined over that one.
The moral of this story? Bridezilla in a different guise. A very
nice. sweet guise, she's a dear, and I love her, but the job is still a
nightmare in disguise.
It is possible she was shocked at the last estimate I gave her.
Cea< 50 cents an hour looked good on a couple
of these jobs>
Joy Hardie
butt as I don't want to undercharge. I don't want to undercut other
seamstresses in the area....but I want to stay competitive and not
overcharge either. I just feel clueless. I need a lunch date with
reality....and I would love the drive!
Joy
Joy Hardie
Wow! That's amazing. Does that store do mailorder?
Joy
Joy Hardie
THANKS &THANKS again and again over!!
Yep, I usually get free reign and when they come pick up the final
outfit it is a complete surprise to them. I work with referrals from
a couple skating coaches that I think must tell them to come to me and
let me do what I want. They really must trust me. I don't take a
deposit and have never had a problem with somebody not wanting their
outfit....they are usually thrilled! (of course I am wondering if it
is because I am not charging enough). But still, most of my custom
outfits cost +/- $200......and yet I won't let myself spend that much
on a dress for myself....even if it was silk and made me loook like a
million. I know it must sound like I have poor self esteem....I don't
really, but I guess I just feel akward about people, including myself,
spending large sums of money on stuff.
Is Publisher the same as Home Publishing? I also have Word.
I would love the design sheet.
Joy
Karen Maslowski
middle ground between you? I'd love to meet with both of you!
We have some great fabric stores here, too, different from either
Haberman's or Baer's. Is that an incentive? LOL
Karen Maslowski in Ohio
small change
> Everyone here is always so helpful!!
> THANKS &THANKS again and again over!!
>
> Yep, I usually get free reign and when they come pick up the final
> outfit it is a complete surprise to them. I work with referrals from
> a couple skating coaches that I think must tell them to come to me and
> let me do what I want. They really must trust me. I don't take a
> deposit and have never had a problem with somebody not wanting their
> outfit....they are usually thrilled! (of course I am wondering if it
> is because I am not charging enough). But still, most of my custom
> outfits cost +/- $200......and yet I won't let myself spend that much
> on a dress for myself....even if it was silk and made me loook like a
> million. I know it must sound like I have poor self esteem....I don't
> really, but I guess I just feel akward about people, including myself,
> spending large sums of money on stuff.
Now it's my turn to wag a finger at you; no deposit on orders that will run
over $200???!!! You must be nuts! First, a deposit signifies commitment
from your customer, and presents you as a serious professional. Second, the
deposit should cover the expense of materials and other outlay. Third, if
they stiff you for whatever reason, you still have something to show for it.
Most professionals in most custom fields take some sort of deposit.
You might want to take a look at my policy and FAQ pages.... my specialty is
really different, but you'll get the idea. ( see links in the menu bar.
www.specialtyoutdoors.com/about/whatis.asp
Penny S
BEIDesign
<snip>
> Is Publisher the same as Home Publishing? I also have Word.
> I would love the design sheet.
Nope. I have both MS Publisher and MS Home Publishing, and you
would find that you cannot open a file created using Publisher in
Home Publishing (or vice versa AFAIK). I have found, however, that
I can copy an entire graphics file created in Publisher, paste it to
a word doc, and send it as an e-mail attachment to a friend who does
not have Publisher. She can then *view* the file, although she
can't edit it at all.
--
Beverly
---to reply, delete no spam and .invalid---
Joy Hardie
<sews...@nospam.com> wrote:
>Why don't you two meet me here in Cincinnati, which is close to the
>middle ground between you? I'd love to meet with both of you!
>
>We have some great fabric stores here, too, different from either
>Haberman's or Baer's. Is that an incentive? LOL
>
>Karen Maslowski in Ohio
>
Hi Karen,
You know I had my big surgery a month ago at the Cleveland Clinic
and I go back on the 16 & 17th for a bunch of tests to give me the
o.k. all's clear to eat regular food again....thank goodness just in
time for Thanksgiving! I will have tubes coming out of my nose....but
how far are you from Cleveland? I could gin up some sort of veil so I
wouldn't look rediculous while we go fabric shopping and eating!
Joy
sewingb...@webtv.net
Re: Another "what to charge ?"
as I don't want to undercharge. I don't want to undercut other
seamstresses in the area....but I want to stay competitive and not
overcharge either. I just feel clueless. I need a lunch date with
reality....and I would love the drive!
Joy
<mamahays> wrote:
<Work is work. Work takes up my time.
---
Sharon is Da Woman! She'll provide all sorts of physical support.<G>
Joy, pricing is not about supporting the pricing structure of other
seamstress; it's what you think your work/time is worth, and custom
costuming should certainly pay better than what it costs the customer to
buy off of the rack.
When it comes to pricing, most beginning sew folk do have trouble
pricing, and even long-time sewers price as if they are running a
charity. They may well be, since so few of them know how to factor in
actual costs of doing business, as I mentioned in another thread on this
issue.
Penny wrote about doing time studies, which is, IMHO, about the best
way to figure out your investment of time. From there, you go to
attempting to figure profits, and, to do that, you must get a handle on
an estimate of your expenses, so that you can deduct them.
Cea
Karen Maslowski
we're in exact cattycorners of the state.
Hey, that veil thing sounds pretty cool, and you'll fit right in at the
Cleveland Clinic. They get people from all over the world, and they're
used to having all sorts of garb there. My oldest daughter worked in
their ER for several years, and when we visited (sil's law school
graduation, etc.) we would stay at the hotel at the Clinic. Hope they'll
be able to work their usual miracles for you, too.
Karen Maslowski in Ohio
Joy Hardie
Joy
Karen M.
> ...
> Yep, I usually get free reign and when they come pick up the final
> outfit it is a complete surprise to them. I work with referrals from
> a couple skating coaches that I think must tell them to come to me and
> let me do what I want. They really must trust me.
But do you trust them??
>I don't take a
> deposit and have never had a problem with somebody not wanting their
> outfit....
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! You need to charge a deposit!!!
A couple weeks ago the pumpkins/corn maze/hayride place that has me
doing square dances had not one, but TWO groups fail to show. One on
Friday, one on Saturday. "Gosh, I hate to start charging a deposit,"
the one gal said. I pointed out that I charge a deposit on all my
dance gigs, and the client needs to send me a check along with our
contract.
The following week, on a crappy rainy cold Saturday, FIVE groups
finked out on them.
They saved places for those folks. Turned others away. (Didn't do
any extra work; the farm has been there since 1912 or so. But I think
they made doughnuts and assembled s'mores fixin's.) They lost money,
while the groups went to Chuck E Cheese** or the movies.
You Need to Charge A Deposit. It commits the client to you and
makes them feel like you're working as a team. Not only because
someone might not like their get-up, but what if they suddenly decide
that they don't like skating so they won't need what you've spent so
many hours (mileage, fabric, thread, sequins) producing?
C'mon, Joy. Get out of the pin money hobby mentality and run it
like a business. You deserve a higher rate if only because of your
nationally-noticed write-up from the sewing expo.
Read Kate's bias-cut bridesmaid disaster rescue. Ya think the
original sewist charged a bunch of $$??
HTH
--Karen M.
**offshore readers: a kiddie birthday pizza palace with animated
characters, arcade games, and so forth.
Joy Hardie
hard.
Joy
small change
> Heavy sigh. I know. It seems like such common sense and yet it is so
> hard.
> Joy
>
it's not hard, it's just business. Seperate out the personal, and think
about money.
;-)
Penny S
Karen M.
> Heavy sigh. I know. It seems like such common sense and yet it is so
> hard.
How much will the re-roofing cost?
You could google for contracts. (My dance gig one came off a
musician site.) Fill in the blancks, charge them some amount ($50?),
have them sign both copies, give them one. You're done.
I used to make wedding cake topppers. One Bridezilla specced a
tasteful black & gold scheme. I hand-painted the little bicycles,
decorated them, trimmed a heart-shaped background, went out and got
special gold ribbon and some black stuff that didn't look funereal.
After the hours of time spent on it, I shipped it to her.
BZ sent back a nasty-gram about how ugly it was, it looked morbid,
blah blah blah. This from a 20-yo kid with no concept of creativity
(how hard is it to glue-gun stuff together, anyway?) nor design. (I
have been costuming and ball-gowning for decades.) But she was the one
who picked the color scheme!
That pushed me over the edge: no more cake toppers.
Maybe you need to get burned by some West Bloomfield type who can
well afford your time and talents but has no taste or concept of
fairness. (When I was growing up in Beverly Hills [MI] we called these
people "Lady Birmingham.")
Also, charging a deposit reserves your time for their project.
Otherwise it's easy to over-schedule and over-book. While this is less
a problem with creating things, when I book a gig it's written in ink,
and anyone coming along afterwards wanting me the same day is SOL.
HTH
--Karen M.
Kate Dicey
> Read Kate's bias-cut bridesmaid disaster rescue. Ya think the
> original sewist charged a bunch of $$??
She charged £200 per ruined dress. I charged £50 a throw for fixing
two, and £150 for the one I made from scratch...
No, I didn't charge a deposit... HOWEVER, certain recent events mean
that I now:
Have a contract that MUST be signed before I lift a thread or a finger
to a computer key for research...
Charge a deposit of £30 or
Have a certificate of acceptance and a clause in the contract stating
that payment upon collection shall be deemed to be full acceptance of
the garments.
--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
Barbara Raper
to "fix" the problems for the bridesmaids who SHOULD have had you make the
dresses in the first place! I hope they realize their mistake in going to
someone else.
Barbara in FL
Pogonip
> Karen M. wrote:
>
>> Read Kate's bias-cut bridesmaid disaster rescue. Ya think the
>> original sewist charged a bunch of $$??
>
>
> She charged £200 per ruined dress. I charged £50 a throw for fixing
> two, and £150 for the one I made from scratch...
>
> No, I didn't charge a deposit... HOWEVER, certain recent events mean
> that I now:
>
> Have a contract that MUST be signed before I lift a thread or a finger
> to a computer key for research...
>
> Charge a deposit of £30 or
>
> Have a certificate of acceptance and a clause in the contract stating
> that payment upon collection shall be deemed to be full acceptance of
> the garments.
>
Recent events??? That sounds ominous.
--
Joanne @ stitches @ singerlady.reno.nv.us
http://bernardschopen.tripod.com/
Life is about the journey, not about the destination.
Kate Dicey
>
> Recent events??? That sounds ominous.
Yes: customer accepted and paid for the garments, then cancelled the
cheque. She tried them on and said she was happy with them when she
picked them up, and then rang the following morning saying she hated
them and they didn't fit, said nothing about the money, and cancelled
the cheque. This is illegal here in the UK.
While I was away she sent an almost illegible and rather illiterate note
and a cheque for just over half the money. I shall attempt to bank
this cheque, and wait for it to clear while consider my reply.
Karen M.
...
> No, I didn't charge a deposit... HOWEVER, certain recent events mean
> that I now:
>
> Have a contract that MUST be signed before I lift a thread or a finger
> to a computer key for research...
>
> Charge a deposit of £30 or
>
> Have a certificate of acceptance and a clause in the contract stating
> that payment upon collection shall be deemed to be full acceptance of
> the garments.
And a currency exchange converter shows that as of today a UK pound
is $1.89 USD. So Kate is charging roughly $50 deposit.
(Kate, please spill on the "recent events." I've asked a dance
caller list for horror stories too.)
--Karen M.
Kate Dicey
> Kate wrote:
> ....
Customer decided she hated what I did the morning after going off
smiling and having paid by cheque... She cancelled the cheque. She has
sent a new cheque for a lesser amount, but I am tempted to write and
explain that cancelling a cheque because she changed her mind is, in
effect, a breach of contract and illegal. Dunno if I can be bothered to
spend the time on her, though... I have more fun and more interesting
things to do, quite frankly.
After this, all cheques must be backed up by a cheque guarantee card
that covers the full amount of the cheque.
Where I put 'or' above, cyberspace ate the rest of my sentence: it
should read 'Charge a deposit of £30 or 30% of the total making-up
costs, whichever is the greater.' This will be £150 or so for the
contract I sent out today for 4 bridesmaids outfits.
Pogonip
> Pogonip wrote:
>
>>
>> Recent events??? That sounds ominous.
>
>
> Yes: customer accepted and paid for the garments, then cancelled the
> cheque. She tried them on and said she was happy with them when she
> picked them up, and then rang the following morning saying she hated
> them and they didn't fit, said nothing about the money, and cancelled
> the cheque. This is illegal here in the UK.
>
> While I was away she sent an almost illegible and rather illiterate note
> and a cheque for just over half the money. I shall attempt to bank
> this cheque, and wait for it to clear while consider my reply.
I was afraid of something like that. I once did some
dresses for a woman of some substance - about 350 lbs.
She would gain or lose weight between fittings and finish
and was impossible to please. I was glad to see the back
of her out my door.
dnmgiordano
>
> I was afraid of something like that. I once did some dresses for a woman
> of some substance - about 350 lbs. She would gain or lose weight between
> fittings and finish and was impossible to please. I was glad to see the
> back of her out my door.
> --
I have been following this whole post, about what to charge, and it seems to
me with all these picky customers I might just have to invest in a scale
just to save myself from this kind of headache.
Michelle Giordano
A
an hour might be fine, but that does not pay the lights here, and certainly
not the rent. So, you can not compete with clothes made in China and many
other places around the world.
Was visiting a tailor shop and saw some trousers for $800, the jacket was
over $1,500 - a tux for a boxing event in Las Vegas; a month earlier this
person spent even more for another boxing event in Las Vegas. Once read in
the mid 90's that if Bill Gates was walking from his car to his office and
there on the ground in front of him was a $2,000 bill it would not be worth
his time to pick it up (he would be loosing money if he stooped to pick it
up). The purpose of these two stories is you may be frugal but some people
are not.
Don't be shy in charging a fair price.
If you take your auto to a auto repair shop they will buy the parts at
wholesale and charge you retail price; Are you charging enough for the
cloth? Threads? Etc? One method in deciding what to charge is to add up
your time (and pay yourself an honest wage- not less), cloth and trimmings,
and add a realistic percentage to cover phone, electricity, health
insurance, rent, etc. It's nice to be charitable to the poor, but not to
the rich.
John
"small change" <pennys...@cetinvalid.com> wrote in message
news:eZidncFZuPc...@cet.com...
> Joy Hardie wrote:
>> Hi Sharon,
>
> I"m going to comment in bits:
>
> But, on the other hand, if I have
>> hunted down the fabric myself with my time and gas.....then I have
>> been keeping the scraps in my personal remnant bin. I don't
>> "up-charge" on any of the materials...and usually just pro-rate the
>> bill for what I actually used on their project.
>
> You are selling your self short.... you should mark the fabric up and/or
> at
> least charge for your time to get it ( and keep track of your mileage) .
> I
> mark most fabrics up about 40% (x1.67) and save the scraps for future
> use.
> It's irrelevant if you paid wholesale or retail, it was your time to go
> get
> it.
>
>> That being said, after I have drafted a pattern for a client....I do
>> charge them about $10 for my pattern making time, but then I KEEP THE
>> PATTERN. Even though they have basically paid for it...I don't think
>> I have charged them enough to give it to them. Heck, then they have a
>> perfect pattern for their body that they can take to any other
>> seamstress and duplicate my efforts.
>
> Most pattern makers make anywhere from $25- 50 an hour depending on skill
> and location. I'm pretty sure that legally, if they contract with you to
> make the pattern they own it not you. But you can still keep it for them.
>
>
>> Finally, do you think it is o.k. if an estimate runs over? Everyone
>> wants something uniique and I am always testing new techniques and
>> designs....so manufacturing time is unpredictable. I seem to always
>> underestimate my labor. I hate to inflate the estimate...but on the
>> other hand I hate to come back to them and say there was a cost
>> over-run.
>> Joy
>
> You will get better at this... I never charge for the whole time if I have
> to figure something out, but I charge a reasonalbe amount. If a project is
> getting way out of hand, I do call the customer and let them know it IS
> going to be more. That's only fair to you, as someone who is working to
> make
> $$ ( that is part of the point, right??) Fortunately, I've been doing this
> a
> long time and I dont' have to eat labor costs except on a rare occasion.
> Another thing to do is just start charging more to begin with to
> compensate
> for training time, if you can get away with it.
>
> One thing that really helped me get my charges in line and consistent is
> to
> work with a timer. Run a timer for common tasks. If you have to do the
> same task several times, take an average. Stop the time for your mistakes
> that you have to re do.
>
>
>
AmazeR
<snip>
> Now it's my turn to wag a finger at you; no deposit on orders that will run
> over $200???!!! You must be nuts! First, a deposit signifies commitment
> from your customer, and presents you as a serious professional. Second, the
> deposit should cover the expense of materials and other outlay. Third, if
> they stiff you for whatever reason, you still have something to show for it.
> Most professionals in most custom fields take some sort of deposit.
>
Also, When the client sees you value your work and charge accordingly...
then they will be less inclined to waste your time and will value you and
your work too... Trust me! This applies to more than just sewing, too!!
How we see ourselves and what we do comes across and people will always
treat us accordingly.. So NEVER under-value either yourself or your work.
Mavis
Joy Hardie
>Don't be shy in charging a fair price.
>
>If you take your auto to a auto repair shop they will buy the parts at
>wholesale and charge you retail price; Are you charging enough for the
>cloth? Threads? Etc? One method in deciding what to charge is to add up
>your time (and pay yourself an honest wage- not less), cloth and trimmings,
>and add a realistic percentage to cover phone, electricity, health
>insurance, rent, etc. It's nice to be charitable to the poor, but not to
>the rich.
>
>John
Thank you John,
Well stated!
Joy
Sewmaster
As Dr. Phil says, "We teach people how to treat us."
I would agree. If we don't value ourselves, who will?
Sewmaster
BrenLee
wrote:
>> Also, When the client sees you value your work and charge accordingly...
>> then they will be less inclined to waste your time and will value you and
>> your work too... Trust me! This applies to more than just sewing, too!!
>> How we see ourselves and what we do comes across and people will always
>> treat us accordingly.. So NEVER under-value either yourself or your work.>
>>
>> Mavis
>
>As Dr. Phil says, "We teach people how to treat us."
>I would agree. If we don't value ourselves, who will?
>
>Sewmaster
I went to a seminar recently on pricing of machine embroidery. one
thing that was really emphasised, that applies across the board,
really, was that the uy suggested that everyone go home and double
their existing prices. a lot of the people said that they would lose
business if they did that. and the chap said - doesn't matter. if
you lose half your customers, you're still making the same every
month, and you've got a little time to go out and have coffee with
your friends once or twice a week. he also reckoned that you only
lose that business for 6-12 months. they go elsewhere to someone
cheaper, and then come back to you for the quality of your work -
particularly with the clothing side of sewing. he also recommended
quoting a high hourly/per stitch for embroidery rate, and discounting
for customers you have a good relationship with. that way, if needs
be, the door is always open to you to increase the price easily,
without it really being an increase. to be honest, this is the only
part of the 2 hours, of bum numbing chair in hall that was worth
listening to. i'm sure my rear end will eventually forgive me :)
===================
www.exonetric.com - for all your hosting requirements - including
server jails.
Pogonip
>
> As Dr. Phil says, "We teach people how to treat us."
> I would agree. If we don't value ourselves, who will?
>
> Sewmaster
>
>
For more inspiring Dr. Phil-isms, see
<http://www.mangydog.com/games/drphil.php>
Carey1003
>quoting a high hourly/per stitch for embroidery rate
How do you figure how many stitches?
Carey
BrenLee
wrote:
the stitches bit is for the machine embroidery. most software
packages will tell you how many stitches are in a design, and then you
charge a rate per 1000 stitches (or part thereof). don't think it
would be at all possible to work out the number of stitches in a
garment!