Nemo on line
NEMO III
I am quite new to this fancy-dancy Internet communication and beg the
indulgence of anyone who notes my (probable) numerous errors. (I also
pity the impoverished ego who IDENTIFIES with such learnable skills!).
That aside, after downloading and reading the bulk of approximately two
months on this newsgroup, I'm wondering of what use it is? Aside from a
few esoteric issues (such as the Necronomicon) most of the exchanges
seemed to consist of rehashing old gripes between Setians and Satanists!
Let me explain.
It seems to me that with an international rapid communication forum like
this there are some pretty useful exchanges that SHOULD be going on. Let
me suggest a few for starters: the impact of the current deflationary
depression on specific international investments; the effect of a falling
U.S. dollar to counter deflationary trends; the specific elements of
magical ritual which produce PK effects; the breakthroughs in "cold
fusion" and its impact on the various aspects of the energy industry
internationally; the best countries for dual citizenship; the social
impact effects of Hoaglands Moon "alien artifact revelations"; the best
special restaurants and amusements by region and country, etc. If these
interest you tell me and I will add my two cents.
As Satanists, our views of politics, economics and societal behaviors are
unique. Apart from the pleasures of our formal "journal", The Black
Flame, we could cover much territory quickly here. Otherwise, this
new-fangled electronic forum strikes me as being as useful as hearing a
group of old grannies gossiping over their knitting. What do you think?
I am also pleased to read at long last that the Temple of Set is going to
"ignore" the Church of Satan (according to an earlier post by Michael
Aquino). This seems the only sensible course of action for all concerned.
The Setians have their religion and we have ours. So to all you Setians
out there, known and unknown, have fun and enjoy yourselves! Maybe if you
have something to say that isn't just trying to justify "you versus us" we
can have some fun and maybe just accomplish something real for a change.
To anyone of any group (or not) who is confused about MY personal view of
Satanism as a Priest of the Church of Satan, let me be simple. The
Satanic Bible is just that: the Bible of Satanism and the sacred scripture
of my religion. I am a SATANIST and am not concerned with academic
niceties regarding who first penned what, where and when. My Bible exists
and, to quote our very delightful Christian friends, "The Bible says it. I
believe it. That settles it." (Purists may object that Satanists are not
supposed to "believe" but to "doubt" and you are right. But what the
hell! I also like to take poetic license).
I also affirm that no religion relies upon ANY legal status to justify its
existence. A religion exists because it has members. Therefore, I
dismiss as meaningless any issue regarding the recognition of the Church
of Satan by any government body. At least in the United States the First
Amendment to the Federal Constitution purportedly permits its citizens the
right to exercise freedom of religion without requiring governmental
sanction. If anyone wishes therefore to question the existence or
legality of the Church of Satan, I will ask them to please reread the
above carefully. A corporation is a governmentally-created legal fiction.
A religion is not. The Church of Satan may have different physical
addresses from time to time just as it may assume a corporate identity in
one country or another. Do not confuse a pile of legal papers with a
living religion. A religion exists if there are living followers of that
religion. There is nothing more to be said.
These aside, I challenge you to contribute offerings of value. We are
Satanists! We are unique. There is so much to offer. Let us begin.
Cliff Hudson
> Greetings Fellow Satanists!
> It seems to me that with an international rapid communication forum like
> this there are some pretty useful exchanges that SHOULD be going on. Let
> me suggest a few for starters: the impact of the current deflationary
> depression on specific international investments; the effect of a falling
> U.S. dollar to counter deflationary trends; the specific elements of
> magical ritual which produce PK effects; the breakthroughs in "cold
> fusion" and its impact on the various aspects of the energy industry
> internationally; the best countries for dual citizenship; the social
> impact effects of Hoaglands Moon "alien artifact revelations"; the best
> special restaurants and amusements by region and country, etc. If these
> interest you tell me and I will add my two cents.
I really don't think anyone here specifically outlines what we
are going to discuss. As you are new to internet, this may seem like an
inefficient way to communicate, having no 'game plan' so to speak.
However, after some participation in the various topic, I think you will
find that allowing conversations to go where they might if much more
interesting and enlightening than discussing a topic just because
everyone else does. I.E. Politics, economics, PK, cold fusion, etc.
There are thousands of newsgroups out there (my school subscribes to 3000
of them) and one of them no doubt is aimed at each of those topics. This
newsgroup, as well as being a forum for the Temple of Set and anyone else
who wishes to claim to be a satanist, is an excellent ground for
discussing openly views on religion.
> I also affirm that no religion relies upon ANY legal status to justify its
> existence. A religion exists because it has members. Therefore, I
> dismiss as meaningless any issue regarding the recognition of the Church
> of Satan by any government body. At least in the United States the First
> Amendment to the Federal Constitution purportedly permits its citizens the
> right to exercise freedom of religion without requiring governmental
> sanction. If anyone wishes therefore to question the existence or
> legality of the Church of Satan, I will ask them to please reread the
> above carefully. A corporation is a governmentally-created legal fiction.
More than legal grounds, anyone who questions the existence of
anothers beliefs is a fool, unless he first questions his own beliefs.
(Don't confuse this with questioning the existence of the manifestations
of ones beliefs)
- Cliff
(Unaffiliated with the Temple of Set or any other organized religion for
that matter)
Peggy Nadramia
What he said!
Mega-dittoes!
From his mouth to Satan's ear...
NEMO'S IN THE HOOOOUUUSSSEEE!
Ken R. Rhoades
to note ALL - IT seems to me the Church of Satan is all over the place
We do not all come from the watermellon:FIDO line. MrMq - FYI - this
is real and not just a RE-RUN OF THE SAME OLD SHIT!
Thank you Nemo for posting and welcome in! It gets - a little thick
at times, Draw a tall cold one and Enjoy!
: I am quite new to this fancy-dancy Internet communication and beg the
--
Ken Rhoades Warlock (Star Wolf) st...@prairienet.org { Norm Disclaimer }
Active Member of the Church of Satan GROTTO OF THE WOLF
Walter Alter
waldemar
Michael Aquino
nem> "ignore" the Church of Satan (according to an earlier post by Michael
nem> Aquino). This seems the only sensible course of action for all
nem> concerned. The Setians have their religion and we have ours. So to
nem> all you Setians out there, known and unknown, have fun and enjoy
nem> yourselves! Maybe if you have something to say that isn't just trying
nem> to justify "you versus us" we can have some fun and maybe just
nem> accomplish something real for a change.
nem> I also affirm that no religion relies upon ANY legal status to justify
nem> its existence. A religion exists because it has members. Therefore, I
nem> dismiss as meaningless any issue regarding the recognition of the Church
nem> of Satan by any government body.
A very impressive post indeed, which would be more so if you had gone on to
fully identify yourself as George Smith of Olympia, Washington, who in 1988
resigned from the Temple of Set in a huff because not a single Master of the
Temple would Recognize you to the Setian Priesthood - after which you went on
a campaign of Temple of Set-sniping in Peter Gilmore's _BF_ without even the
courage to use your real name. [And among the "pleasures" of the latest
edition of this publication readers are treated to your announcement that
there is no actual AIDS epidemic - that it is actually the AIDS-treatment
medicines that are killing all those people (!)]
Your point that a religion is a religion apart from government recognition,
court-ordered dissolutions, etc. is well-taken. To the extent that the Church
of Satan is run by Blanche Barton and the Gilmores as a money-making business,
however, it effectively leaves the arena of "pure religion" and is subject to
the same standards as any other business.
The significance of the Church of Satan bankruptcy has nothing to do with
Anton LaVey's religious ideas, but rather with the way those ideas are
merchandised - how honestly and to whose benefit. Let us also bear in mind
that the bankruptcy came about in the first place because of Diane LaVey's
successful lawsuit against Anton in Superior Court - in which she asserted,
among other things, that he had beaten her, choked her to unconsciousness, and
driven her out of their 6114 California Street home. As I commented to Gilmore
in 1993:
"You can sulk about the superior court and bankruptcy court documents all you
want, but the fact remains that for an outside researcher they are the only
reliable way to get an accurate picture of the post-75 Church of Satan - its
[nonexistent] membership and its [$0] income - as well as of Anton LaVey
personally. Reason: These two public records consist of a massive amount of
sworn testimony, extending over several years, by Anton, Diane, and others
such as Zeena & Nikolas Schreck. Also extensive exhibits in the form of tax
records, financial statements, letters, etc."
You are correct that the Temple of Set would prefer to think as little as
possible about the grotesque that the post-75 Church of Satan has become. You
are an embarrassment to us, like the proverbial mad aunt locked in the cellar.
You have taken the exalted visions and accomplishments of the original Church
and prostituted them into a magazine that advertises for pedophiles and sells
the art of John Wayne Gacy. But, issues of aesthetics aside, the hallmark of
the present Church of Satan representatives - as Paul Valentine (a non-Setian)
has recently pointed out - is simply that they have no respect for truth, and
lie glibly & easily as it suits their convenience. The Temple of Set happens
to feel that this is a betrayal of the original Church of Satan's strong
standards of anti-hypocrisy.
Now that participants in this newsgroup know a little more about "Nemo"'s
background, bias, and "religious" standards, they are in a better position to
evaluate the "offerings of value" you present for general consideration.
--
: Fidonet: Michael Aquino 1:125/430 .. speaking for only myself.
: Internet: Michael...@125-430.wmeonlin.sacbbx.com
tyagi mordred nagasiva
M Aquino quotes NEMO and writes:
|>I am also pleased to read at long last that the Temple of Set is going to
|>"ignore" the Church of Satan (according to an earlier post by Michael
|>Aquino).
Don't hold your breath. Aquino and his boys are still hot under the
collar about the 'scourge' of the CoS. Gives them something to do.
|>...The Setians have their religion and we have ours.
There's some sense for you. I remember you from AOL's boards, Nemo,
and while I didn't like you very much before, I think you've mellowed.
|>...Maybe if you have something to say that isn't just trying
|>to justify "you versus us" we can have some fun and maybe just
|>accomplish something real for a change.
I've rarely seen anything 'real' out of either ToS or CoS with the
exception of Aquino's book lists, and even these aren't that hot.
[religio-fodder omitted]
|fully identify yourself as George Smith of Olympia, Washington, who in 1988
|resigned from the Temple of Set in a huff because not a single Master of the
|Temple would Recognize you to the Setian Priesthood -
It is considered bad manners to 'out' an individual in public like this.
I'm surprised at you, Mr. Aquino. Where it comes to CoS people I'm afraid
you do lose your head quickly.
[slather-smamming omitted]
|Your point that a religion is a religion apart from government recognition,
|court-ordered dissolutions, etc. is well-taken.
Glad to hear you acknowledge this.
|...Diane LaVey's
|successful lawsuit against Anton in Superior Court - in which she asserted,
|among other things, that he had beaten her, choked her to unconsciousness, and
|driven her out of their 6114 California Street home.
Fascinating dirt. You sure do spew it.
|You are correct that the Temple of Set would prefer to think as little as
|possible about the grotesque that the post-75 Church of Satan has become.
I don't see evidence of this. Any time the subject of Satanism, LaVey
or CoS comes up, Mr. Aquino is right there with his court testimonies,
personal remembrances, dossiers of the latest 'loose cannon Satanists',
very often the ones who were associated with CoS or who somehow, someway
(inevitably) did the Bad Thing and got ToSsed.
|You
|are an embarrassment to us, like the proverbial mad aunt locked in the cellar.
Please take shit like this to personal email. I don't care who is an
embarrassment to you or your Temple.
|You have taken the exalted visions and accomplishments of the original Church
|and prostituted them into a magazine that advertises for pedophiles and sells
|the art of John Wayne Gacy. But, issues of aesthetics aside, the hallmark of
|the present Church of Satan representatives - as Paul Valentine (a non-Setian)
|has recently pointed out - is simply that they have no respect for truth, and
|lie glibly & easily as it suits their convenience. The Temple of Set happens
|to feel that this is a betrayal of the original Church of Satan's strong
|standards of anti-hypocrisy.
My feeling is that the way you portray the CoS falls DIRECTLY into line with
what I'd expect to see from antagonistic rhetoric about the org. I'm not
saying anything about CoS or its doings, but when you trash it, Mr. Aquino,
you're only doing it a SERVICE THROUGH EXPOSURE.
I say drop the subject and let's get to a discussion of Satanism instead
of the piss-whine of CoS/ToS politik.
|Now that participants in this newsgroup know a little more about "Nemo"'s
|background, bias, and "religious" standards, they are in a better position to
|evaluate the "offerings of value" you present for general consideration.
Ah, but there's the point. You've already proven (with your handling of me
and others) that you are not a reliable source when it comes to an evalua-
tion of the character and intent of other humans, especially those with whom
you have any intellectual disagreement (interesting, that). Thus, while your
blathering may impress, due to its erudition and legalease, my impression is
that all we know is more about what YOU THINK about Nemo. I'm not sure that
it is all that important, really.
Dark Star
nem> group of old grannies gossiping over their knitting. What do you think?
nem> I am also pleased to read at long last that the Temple of Set is going to
nem> "ignore" the Church of Satan (according to an earlier post by Michael
nem> Aquino). This seems the only sensible course of action for all
nem> concerned. The Setians have their religion and we have ours. So to
nem> all you Setians out there, known and unknown, have fun and enjoy
nem> to justify "you versus us" we can have some fun and maybe just
nem> accomplish something real for a change.
Gee, George, if you're so bored with all of us, then why waste your time here?
And just to get the facts straight, the Temple of Set minds it's business, but
when the CoS aka Anton's Fan Club, goes out of its way to attack and denigrate
us, we sure as hell aren't going to take it. Or are you suggesting we turn the
other cheek? How christian of you! I find it very telling that CoS is so
obsessed with the ToS, still, after all this time. Including you, otherwise
why bother to make the thinly disguised sarcastic remarks in your post? TSK!
Can you say "transparent"?
--
: Fidonet: Dark Star 1:125/430 .. speaking for only myself.
: Internet: Dark...@125-430.wmeonlin.sacbbx.com
Peggy Nadramia
>other cheek? How christian of you! I find it very telling that CoS is so
>obsessed with the ToS, still, after all this time. Including you, otherwise
>why bother to make the thinly disguised sarcastic remarks in your post? TSK!
>Can you say "transparent"?
Can you say "projection?"
loc...@phyast.pitt.edu
> It seems to me that with an international rapid communication forum like
> this there are some pretty useful exchanges that SHOULD be going on. Let
> fusion" and its impact on the various aspects of the energy industry
> internationally;
As far as I know Pons & Fleishman are frauds; perhaps innocent frauds, but
there is no value to their "experiments" -their neutron counters were
not calibrated; they were reading background as a fusion signiture.
There's a d00d at MIT that does actual work on this topic; you should
look up his review articles for more info (I'll post his name if there is
an interest).
> the best countries for dual citizenship;
Ireland seems the best for those of Irish decent. I plan on applying soon;
I've a few more projects to complete before I begin that one. Of course,
being a catholic country, it might not be all that fun to live there, unless
you become a recluse (which is what I aspire to anyway; a recluse like the
famous technomad, Steven ROberts).
The Isle of Man is supposed to be a good place for offshore banking, or
escape from crappy regimes.
Monaco would be great if you had ambitions of becoming an arms dealer (all
those lovely French ladiez B). Since the Clipper chip recently bit the dust,
I have harbored no such ambitions.
> the social
> impact effects of Hoaglands Moon "alien artifact revelations";
WHat's that? Alien artifacts? I've heard of electronic looking gizmos
being found in rocks & such, but nothing much beyond that (inconclusive)
One would think that some of my Planetary Geology or Astronomer pals would
be raving about such a thing (unless you are a steeenking conspiracy
theorist, which is all too common among Satanist types, as I am finding);
havn't heard a thing.
> the best
> special restaurants and amusements by region and country, etc.
I have an "Industrial guide to Pittsburgh" that may be amusing...
I also have similar guides to Amsterdam, CHicago, Zurich, & Toronto, though
they weren't written by me...
Michael Aquino comments on NEMOIII:
> A very impressive post indeed, which would be more so if you had gone on to
> fully identify yourself as XXXXXX XXXXX of XXXXXXX, XXXXXXXXXX.
(Name & address deleted under the XXXX's)
This is something of a breach of Net-etiquette, rather especially uncalled
for considering the fact that Nemo did not overtly criticize the ToS or
yourself in his post (past sentiments aside). I believe Gene Spaffords
definative articles on the topic are regularly posted to news.answers.
A more wordy article which includes more interesting analyses is
a political science thesis (From San Jose State) called "Leviathan"
available in etext.archive.umich.edu /pub/CuD/Papers/leviathan.z -though it
often states the obvious it covers lots of innerestin topics...
> [And among the "pleasures" of the latest
> edition of this publication readers are treated to your announcement that
> there is no actual AIDS epidemic - that it is actually the AIDS-treatment
> medicines that are killing all those people (!)]
Actually, this is a fairly well documented theory endorsed by leading
virologists, as I believe a following post demonstrated.
To tell the truth, I tend to agree with this theory; that the immune system
is slowly destroyed by extreme stressors, such as nitrate inhalents,
IV drug use, unprotected & continuous anal sex. HIV seems more an effect
than a cause; med students should brush up on their fundamental errors in
logic... But then who am I to judge (actually, I've had enough Med Students
in my classes to know how frightfully dumb they are on average; keep it
in mind next time you go in for a checkup. Don't get me wrong; plenty of 'em
are absolutely brilliant, & most are hard-working, but they're clods on average
when it comes to scientific method).
yrs in Grom,
-Lupo LeBoucher