Multiworld Civilization, Biblical View, Plus: The Venus Problem
Presley DeBoom
propose a future when mankind will be spread across many worlds: in
the solar system, maybe the galaxy, maybe multigalactic. "We better
not have all our eggs in one basket," is a common expression of the
need to expand civilization across mulitple worlds.
The idea of a multiworld civilization seems not only reasonable (given
a long enough history to achieve it) but very enticing and excitiing.
From an atheistic/agnostic/evolutionist/humanistic POV, it certainly
makes sense. Sci-fi works of all kinds lure us with this concept; most
classically, Isaac Asimov's "Foundation and Empire."
I have often figured there was no conflict between this concept and a
biblical world view. At least, the idea that we WOULD have gone
multiworld in the original plan of creation, and/or that we WILL go
multiworld during the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, and/or (continue
to) go multiworld during the "short while" in history that FOLLOWS the
Millenium: the short period in which "the dragon will be released from
the bottomless pit to deceive the nations once more (paraphrase)."
In fact, the idea of terraforming other worlds to make them like the
earth seems kind of presumptuous, when, from a biblical scientific
POV, there may be or may have been countless worlds with earthlike
and NON-earthlike ecosystems. In this case, returning them to their
ORIGINAL state (before sin) would be more responsible than trying to
make them all earthlike, should we be given planetary enginering
privileges and responsibility during the Millenium. RE:
http://www.spacekb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/astronomy/13236/Exoretroforming-VS-Terrafroming
But is our civilization being muliworld BASED, like we are now
mulitcontinent based, a view that fits with, contradicts, or is
totally neutral toward a biblical world view including biblical
prophecy?
Well, part of my problem has been caused by believing Revelation
should be taken symbolically more than literally. Even a well meaning
bible study teacher of mine, one time, years ago, suggested that
Revelation should not be taken as a literal and chronological account
of the future. Instead, he proposed, it should taken as 'like looking
at an art object, say, first from one angle, then from another, then
from another, and so on.' Instead of a literally chronological script
of future events, it is really a collection of symbolic expressions
based on John's astonishing vision that he received.
But in those days, I had not yet divorced myself fully from the
evolutionist, old-universe view, and was also taking GENESIS semi-
symbolically. Since then, I have come to the conclusion that Gen 1:1,
and the whole Bible, is LITERAL and that the humdreds of fully
qualified scientists who are young-universe creationist are RIGHT.
More recently, reading online the Defender's Study Bible, from the
Institute for Creation Research, and its notes, I saw that the ICR
scientists and other proessionals take the Revelation quite literally
and chronological, just as they do Genesis. Unfortunately, I think the
ICR has dropped the online resource of the Defender's Study Bible.
OTOH, maybe you can find it - I can't - on their site.
RE: http://www.icr.org/
In any case, I noticed in Revelation, where it refers to the post-
millenial period in which the Dragon is deceiving the nations one more
time, that it expressly says 'the nations WHICH ARE IN THE FOUR
CORNERS OF THE EARTH.'
Here is a non-ICR bible site with the passage:
http://biblebrowser.com/revelation/20-8.htm
(I do not so trust just any bible translation, commentary or website
as I do the ICR. Too many theological liberals are out there trying to
make God's Word say something different that what it actually says.)
It's almost as if God was waiting for me on this: "You were hoping
mankind was going to spread out across the universe, like humanistic
views of future history portray? Here is what the Creator of History
has to say about mankind's future history, dude!"
By default, it appears that the EARTH is where we will be mainly,
permanently based, until the end. It appears that we will primarily
NOT be multiworld based like we are multicontinent based.
But there are two things I'd add to that: one, technically, it could
be saying, paraphrased and interpreted, the way good liberal
theologians love to do when they don't like what the Bible REALLY
says: 'OF THOSE nations which are in the four corners of the
earth...,' whereas those nations in M104, the Sombrero Galaxy, say,
are not a part of this particular event in history.
And two: A Related Subject: FUTURE HISTORY AND THE VENUS PROBLEM.
We do not have to go to M104 to find a planet that is seemingly was
earthlike. In fact, the NEAREST planet to us has this characteristc:
VENUS !
Venus is a rocky core planet like earth, has nearly our same
dimensions and mass....and an atmosphere! Or should I say, ATMOSFEAR !
Because, boy, does Venus have an atmosphere! 100 time Earth's
atmospheric pressure, 900 degress F., and it rains battery acid!
Like many or all things in life, nature and history, God has created
and then changed Venus to have one or more symbolic purposes. Venus
has a positive symbobism and a negative one. Just as "dogs are man's
best friends," as part of God's gifts to us, but also have warped
habits that are symbols of vile, sinful characteristics of humans,
such that the Bible says 'outside [of Heaven - that is, in Hell]
are ....the dogs...etc.' (paraphrased)....VENUS has two opposing
symbolic purposes.
I hope the ICR does not mind, but in their "Days of Praise"
publication, devotion for Tuesday, August 18, 2009, we have:
**************************
"The Bright and Morning Star."
" ' I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in
the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright
and morning star.' (Rev. 22:16).
"The epliogue of Revelation contains many words of comfort to the
believer. Our Lord promises, among other things, 'behold, I come
quickly; and my reward is with me' (v. 12), and "blessed are they that
do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and
may enter in through the gates into the city" (v. 14) Likewise, there
are many names for God given, such as "the Lord God of the holy
prophets' (v.6), 'Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the
first and the last,' (v.13), and "the root and the offspring of
David' (text, above). This rehearsal of names and deeds provides
comfort, but why is Christ called the 'bright and morning star?'
"The analogy is to the planet Venus, so often seen shining brightly in
the early morning. The sight of the planet provides a pledge of the
coming day during which the light is brighter and the sight clearer.
"Likewise, however beautiful and awe-inspiring our perception is now
by the light of our Bright and Morning Star, Jesus Christ, we are
promised a more complete view. Although He has 'shined in our hearts,
to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of
Jesus Christ' (2 Cor. 4:6), and although Christ appeared as 'the
brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person' (Hebrews
1:3), soon we shall see Him 'face to face' (1 Cor. 13:12) and even 'be
like Him; for we shall see Him as He is' (1 John 3:2).
"Our view now constitutes only the beginning of a clearer sight - a
gaurantee of the glorious day that has no night, when we shall see the
King in all His beauty. There will be even be no need of the sun, 'for
the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light
thereof' (Rev. 21:23)
"by JDM - John D. Morris, PhD." http://www.icr.org/
******************************
So, here, clearly, Venus has a positive symbolic purpose: The Bright
and Morning Star which promises the coming of full day, and also means
Christ Himself, whose life, death and resurrection on Earth and in
Man's history is a "little dawn," preceeding the Big Dawn, when He
returns in glory.
But now that we know the planetary characteristics of Venus, the other
planets of the solar system, and, of course, Earth: we can see that
while Earth is a symbol of Heaven in the solar system, VENUS IS A
SYMBOL OF HELL.
Venus is a symbol of Hell in the solar system.
So, it has two symbolic purposes, at the very least. One positive, one
negative. But, besides that, Venus provides us with a tantalizing hint
of what kinds of things may have existed in the orignal Creation, and
what their purposes were.
It is very hard to NOT suspect that Venus, in the original Creation,
was an EARTH-LIKE PLANET !
If so, then what would its purpose have been? It is hard not to
suspect that it had something to do with life and with US.
Will Man reach out into the cosmos, find current or previously life-
bearing planets? Was he supposed to have done so, at least, in the
original Creation, barring the entry of sin?
We can boil the whole life-bearing-and/or-earthlike-planets-elsewhere-
in-the-Universe problem down to just two planets on which we have
already done some exploration: EARTH AND VENUS ! Right here in our own
solar system!
Let me conjecture that Venus was Earth-like and either had its own
life or was life-ready: ready for us to bring Earth-life to it. Now,
to make a long story short, we can potentially extrapolate such a gift
from God to us, to the ENTIRE COSMOS!
Which brings up the problem: there is no biblical hint of a multiworld
based civilization for us. The Bible clearly seems to stress that the
nations of man are and will be, primarly, "in the four corners of the
Earth." So what's with Venus and M104?
Note, the Bible also talks about what will happen after Judegment Day:
"There will be a new heavens and a new earth, and the earth [will
have] no sea."
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/new_heaven_and_new_earth.htm
It appears that even when everything is settled for eternity and no
more unrighteousness exists in the New Creation, the Earth is still
the (functional) center!
It is hard to figure this. The Bible and God have the final word on
the way and the why things are, were and will be. If one reaches
conclusions or generates speculations that are clearly unbiblical,
then one is WRONG. So I must be careful in my speculations; it seems
God loves to ultimately show human thinking and human wisdom to be
WRONG!
So, with that warning, I still wonder: if we now have put men on the
moon and sent robotic probes across our own solar system, how much of
a reach into space might we have 1000+ years from now? I am not
assuming but conjecturing that, during the Thousand Year Reign of
Christ, man's privilege and responsibility of learning about nature
and applying this knowledge to his own activities and device design
and building - that is, science and engineering - will continue. And
even into the period that follows the Millenium. IF that were to be
so, then how could man not have a much vaster reach into space than he
does, now?
One cannot rule out that Christ will turn us away from looking to
space adventures in the utopian world He will rule over, bodily, in
person, for a thousand years. He has the right to do so; He is God.
But if we still have a reach into space during that time, and, in
fact, if science annd technology were to perhaps develop even faster
than ever in a greatly healed Earth and Creation, then...what about
space?
Evolutionists like to say, 'what a waste of space the universe would
be if we are the only living planet.' But that's like saying, 'what a
waste of space the Earth was when it had only the Garden of Eden and
two people in it.' If, in fact, at least in the orignal plan of
creation, we were supposed to eventually colonize and manage the
almost infinite array of worlds across the unimaginably vast cosmos,
then there is no waste of space at all! What an awesome gift of God!
The earth might have been intended to be the functional Center in the
orignal plan of creation, as it is in the New Heavens to come. But
what was Venus sitting there for? Quite possibly, the same reason the
Adromeda Galaxy, the Sombrero Galaxy, and all the rest of Creation is
sitting there for. Maybe we are not supposed to be mulltiworld BASED,
as we are nulticontinent based. But maybe we are or were or will be
supposed to have a reach into space that spans the cosmos,
nevertheless?
How about: maybe the nations do not spread across the universe, but we
still have great tourist resorts all across the Hubble Ultra Deep
Field galaxies?
Maybe.
thomas shoup
wrote:
> Many science/space articles, as well as, of coourse, sci-fi epics,
> propose a future when mankind will be spread across many worlds: in
> the solar system, maybe the galaxy, maybe multigalactic. "We better
> not have all our eggs in one basket," is a common expression of the
> need to expand civilization across mulitple worlds.
>
> The idea of a multiworld civilization seems not only reasonable (given
> a long enough history to achieve it) but very enticing and excitiing.
> From an atheistic/agnostic/evolutionist/humanistic POV, it certainly
> makes sense. Sci-fi works of all kinds lure us with this concept; most
> classically, Isaac Asimov's "Foundation and Empire."
>
> I have often figured there was no conflict between this concept and a
> biblical world view. At least, the idea that we WOULD have gone
> multiworld in the original plan of creation, and/or that we WILL go
> multiworld during the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, and/or (continue
> to) go multiworld during the "short while" in history that FOLLOWS the
> Millenium: the short period in which "the dragon will be released from
> the bottomless pit to deceive the nations once more (paraphrase)."
>
> In fact, the idea of terraforming other worlds to make them like the
> earth seems kind of presumptuous, when, from a biblical scientific
> POV, there may be or may have been countless worlds with earthlike
> and NON-earthlike ecosystems. In this case, returning them to their
> ORIGINAL state (before sin) would be more responsible than trying to
> make them all earthlike, should we be given planetary enginering
Who gives a shit?
tt
Gordon Stangler
days? Humanity is meant to spread out amongst the cosmos, like seeds
blown from a dandelion, colonizing and populating as many planets,
solar systems, and galaxies as we can.
Humanity is too flexible, too adaptable to simply stay put and
squabble over some parched land on a small planet in a tiny system in
an unimpressive arm of an all too common spiral galaxy. We WILL
spread into the stars, and beyond.
I, for one, will do my part, and more, to see this vision come to
fruition.
Presley DeBoom
I'm with you, there. I'd LIKE to see manking spread across the cosmos.
It seems kind of logical that that's why God put it (and us) there.
Not the MAIN reason, though; "The chief end of man is to obey God and
enjoy Him forever." * The Christian message is much more concerned
with TIME than SPACE: that is, it is about eternity with (or without)
God. Space is fairly irrelevant.
Here are two things I've read at least part of, but cannot verify by a
fairly diligent Google search at the moment:* First: that verse! I
SWEAR there's a verse that says the chief end of man is to <either
obey or glorify> God and enjoy Him forever." But looking that up on
Google brings up all kinds of stuff EXCEPT a verse in the BIBLE that
consists of exactly that phrase! [:-)]. Oh well, trust me (or rather,
the Bible), it at least IN EFFECT says that, if not word for word.
Second, Years ago, I saw in the library and browsed a book by a
physicist, as I recall, that compared the Bible to other primary
religious documents and/or ancient mythologies. I cannot recall the
title, author nor any other identifying info about it right now. But
it was about the fact that while all major non-Judeo-Christian
religions concern themselves primarily with PLACE and SPACE, the Judeo-
Christian Bible conerns itself much more with TIME than space. For
instance, religions that say we have been around for billions of
years, or forever, and are part of repeating cyle of life-death,
creation-destruction that effectively has been going on, and will be
going on, forever....do not concern themselves with time: time is a
given and can be taken for granted. Instead, they concern themselves
with Man's or individuals' physical PLACE in the cosmos. OTOH, the
book asserts, Judeo-Christianity is intensely concerned with TIME and
little with SPACE and place.
If you immediately disagree, I can understand why. The Bible has a LOT
to say about the promised land given to the Jews. But at least by the
New Testament time, you have Jesus being asked by a Samaritan woman
where is the right place to worship, where the Samaritans claimed or
where the Jews claimed one should worship? Jesus indicated, never mind
the place, but the QUALITY of your worship.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+4:21-24
The Bible, unlike Hinduism, for example, says that we have not been
here very long and we are not going to be here much longer. As to some
non-biblical cosmologies and age of the earth, for example, look at:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_date1.htm
But the Bible insists on a recent creation and a soon return of Christ
in glory and end of the world as we have known it. Time is short and
is of the essence, according to the scriptures.
So I think this book may be accurately enough on to something.
So, I, like many people, readily tend to concern myself with space.
But the Bible says be concerned about eternity.
Nevertheless, I agree with you that it sure would be neat, all else
being equal, for us to expand our horizons across the cosmos and I am
planning to do what I can to further that end, also:
But, based on the fact that after the evidence, logic and the facts
(and God) dragged me kicking and screaming to the conclusion that the
Bible really, literally is the Word of God, and I came to an
understanding of what it's main message is, I more recently realize
that since the Bible has the true last word on any subject it clearly
addresses: I had better see how these dreams of cosmic conquest
compare to anything the Bible says about future history.
Thus, my post, above. But, yes, I do want to see how far we might be
able to get in space.
Ad astra!
Androcles
"Presley DeBoom" <truthismi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d801ae98-06f3-44b3...@t2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 1, 10:14 am, Gordon Stangler <gordon.stang...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You would prefer that humanity stay on one planet until the end of our
> days? Humanity is meant to spread out amongst the cosmos, like seeds
> blown from a dandelion, colonizing and populating as many planets,
> solar systems, and galaxies as we can.
>
> Humanity is too flexible, too adaptable to simply stay put and
> squabble over some parched land on a small planet in a tiny system in
> an unimpressive arm of an all too common spiral galaxy. We WILL
> spread into the stars, and beyond.
>
> I, for one, will do my part, and more, to see this vision come to
> fruition.
I'm with you, there. I'd LIKE to see manking spread across the cosmos.
It seems kind of logical that that's why God
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