How Do I Get Info On Wicca?
{USER_FIRSTNAME} {USER_LASTNAME}
lot about it and convinced me but he no longer has AIM so I have no way to
talk to him anymore. Does anybody have any sugestions on how to learn more?
Preferably on the net, I have a REALLY christian family and they would freak
if they saw me buying a book about "witchcraft". :-) What I am looking for
is an internet-like version of "To Ride A Silver Broomstick" or what ever
it's called.
Thanks,
TGY
Pope Cockroach the Green
http://www.witchvox.com is an excellent place to start, but they won't *teach*
you how to do anything.
I suggest going to the library and hitting up the occult section. Your parents
will love to know that you're interested in books enough to spend hours on end
at the library, and they won't question you about what you read.
Of course, if they want to go with you, just ask them to drop you off there when
they're on their way somewhere else, or spring it on them when they're busy.
Otherwise, I would look at what a google search < http://www.google.com > has to
offer on varied topics, such as "witchcraft", "Wicca", "Pagan", "Samhain",
"Neopagan", "Druid", "Spells", "Magic", "Magick", etc. If anything on those
pages sounds outrageous, it is. If anything sounds too good to be true, it is.
If you see that 9 million women were burned at the stake under the Spanish
inquisition, it's a bold faced lie.
Be skeptical, and verify everything you can. Remember, people are often wrong,
and it's best to keep that in mind. I myself am often wrong, and might be right
now. So be skeptical of me, too.
And, of course, you can always ask questions here, and you might be able to find
someone here who's willing to teach you. (Make sure you read enough responses
and other posts to get a sane person, though. . . Several of the members of
alt.religion.wicca are a bit, well, kooky. That's saying a lot, from a
Discordian!)
--
Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!
-Pope Cockroach the Green, POEE,
Devotee to St. Gulik, Emperor and Lord Protector of the Lands Between State
Lines, Chairman of the Committee to Move Independence Day back to July 2, Keeper
of Souls stolen by photographs, Chief Librarian of all libraries on the Moon,
Second Assistant to the ResNet Goddess, Fifth Poet of the State of Chaos,
Excommunicator of YOU, De-excommunicator of YOU, Preceptor of the Emperor's New
Clothes Coven, Chief Hunter and Skinner of Fluffy Bunnies, Lounge Singer at the
Hotel Nirvana, Game Warden for the Happy Hunting Grounds, and National
Swashbuckler for the Nation of Djibouti.
ke6tcgfcc
filtered out.
TGY
and the couple who have emailed. you have been a lot of help. Thanks
TGY
"ke6tcgfcc" <ke6t...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011231161641...@mb-cq.aol.com...
ren
> is an internet-like version of "To Ride A Silver Broomstick" or what ever
> it's called.
>
> Thanks,
> TGY
Why? Read this newsgroup.
the_olphardt
ren <r...@bookofshadows.org> wrote in message
news:3C31A71C...@bookofshadows.org...
Isn't reading this newsgroup just a bit more like getting "ridden" BY a
broomstick?
Joe
Das Uber Bitch
You rock, joe! >;]
"the_olphardt" <jske...@apex.net> wrote in message
news:u33ihga...@corp.supernews.com...
Phoenix
P
"Das Uber Bitch" <castir...@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:3c31c...@newsa.ev1.net...
hY
> Isn't reading this newsgroup just a bit more like getting "ridden" BY > a broomstick?
:) more like you are being beaten repetitively with a large pointy
stick with spikes.
Ze kat lady
>> it's called.
Silver Ravenwolf is considered one of the worst writers in Pagan society. Her
books are filled with misinformation. The sad thing is, she is aware of this,
yet continues to publish falsities, all for the sake of money. You will often
see people on newsgroups call her $ilver.
As for your parents disapproval, I would recommend studying a variety of
religions and cultures, Wicca being just one of many. Would your parents really
disagree if you were to do this? If you were to read books on Buddhism, would
they be upset? I would really try and educate yourself about a variety of
beliefs-see which one truly fits you before making such a commitment to one. If
you truly feel drawn to Wicca, really, why not wait until you are 18? Your
parents will have no say in your religious practices at that point. There are
people in this group that have been actively Pagan for 30 years or more! It's
not going anywhere, believe me. You have the rest of your life to study.
Pope Cockroach the Green
Ze kat lady wrote:
> >> is an internet-like version of "To Ride A Silver Broomstick" or what ever
> >> it's called.
>
> Silver Ravenwolf is considered one of the worst writers in Pagan society. Her
> books are filled with misinformation. The sad thing is, she is aware of this,
> yet continues to publish falsities, all for the sake of money. You will often
> see people on newsgroups call her $ilver.
One question:
Have you read "To Ride a Silver Broomstick?"
Ze kat lady
>
>Have you read "To Ride a Silver Broomstick?"
Yes. The first few books she wrote were really not so bad. But when she wrote
Teen Witch, it started to get pretty bad. Just one example I can give- she
encourages children to lie to their parents. I'm including an essay that goes
into more detail about the pro's and con's of Mama$ilver. I am not saying don't
read her- just use your best judgement, there are much better sources out
there.
The Problem with Silver Ravenwolf
© by Smiling Panther, Oct. 15th 2001
A number of people in the Pagan community have a problem with "Mama
Silver," and are frequently asked "why?". Answers vary, as there are a number
of reasons. At first glance, many people might think that it is simply a matter
of envy, that since she is such a well known figure she makes an easy target.
While that may certainly be the case in some instances, many others have
complaints which go well beyond that, which Silver is apparently completely
unwilling to address on her own behalf. I am writing this article in the
interest of no longer having to type out the same thing repetitively on message
boards. This article should be read with the fact firmly in mind that these are
the personal views of myself and many others regarding her work. I would
encourage the reader to keep these things in mind if or when they read her
work.
Let me start out by saying that I truly believe Silver had the best of
intentions in the beginning. Perhaps she still does. Her early books, "To Ride
a Silver Broomstick" and "To Stir a Magick Cauldron" aren't terribly bad,
although there are better ones available in my opinion. From there, however,
begins a downward spiral. Where the fur truly began to fly was with the
publication of "Teen Witch", so I'll concentrate mainly there.
I've read "Teen Witch" cover to cover, and I must say that it wasn't as bad
as I'd expected from all the hype. Unfortunately, that doesn't say much. The
first overall disturbing thing that strikes me about this book is the way in
which it is blatantly targeted at Christian teens. The author practically jumps
through hoops to draw the reader to the conclusion that Witches worship the
Christian God, relegating Witchcraft to Christianity with special effects, so
to speak. Now, I understand that this is meant to be an introductory book for
young readers and their parents. However, I fail to see how leading readers to
incorrect conclusions at the outset is helpful. The whole book dumbs down and
sugar-coats the practice of Witchcraft, while at the same time managing to
further spread misinformation. I'll address some of that now.
pg. 9, par. 2
"The Spiritual Laws represent a code of ethics or morals giving the
Crafter a guideline for spiritual living, whether you choose to practice as a
Solitary (a Witch alone) or within a group structure. These Spiritual Laws
apply to all magickal people, and most magickal individuals incorporate these
laws into their group workings and their solitary practices."
All Magickal people? Since when is there a Unified Pagan Ethic, and why
wasn't a memo sent out? That's pure tripe. For example, if you are at all
familiar with the Asatruar, you know that they follow Norse Paganism with heavy
emphasis on honor and the way of the Warrior. How logical is it, then, to
assume that they follow the idea of "Harm None" as do so many Neo-Wiccans? A
good many non-Neo-Wiccan Witches also do not believe in any such thing as the
"Rule of Three" or in limiting their options with a "Harm None" clause. That
doesn't mean they prowl the streets at night looking for someone to smite, it
simply means they won't hesitate to smite under the right circumstances.
pg. 13, par. 3 & 5
"Real Witches do not...
...hurt people physically, mentally, spiritually, or magickally. Witches have
taken an oath to help
people, not hurt people. You are not a real Witch if you hurt anybody.
...work black magick - that's those other guys. Real Witches know that
whatever you do,
whether in this world or in the magickal world, comes back to you three
times. If you do good
stuff, then you get rewarded. If you do bad stuff, you pay the price -
and, let me add, you will
pay dearly. Wiccans have a poem that goes: Ever mind the rule of three,
what you give out
comes back to thee."
Oh please. Just because someone doesn't conform to the ethical standpoint
of her personal choice, they aren't a "Real Witch"? As for the "Rule of Three"
and "Harm None" see my prior comment.
pg. 14, par. 7
"...drink or use blood in any way from animals, themselves, or any person
(alive or dead). How
you like your steak has nothing to do with the Craft."
**BZZZZT** Blood Magick is quite an old practice, and there are most
certainly Traditions of Witchcraft today which do incorporate blood in some
spells and ritual. It definitely isn't for everyone, even though the blood is
often obtained in a non-violent manner such as harvesting menstrual blood, but
it is done nonetheless. Also, this statement most definitely maligns religions
such as Santeria and Vodoun, which do utilize blood sacrifice in some
instances.
pg. 14, par. 11
"...summon demons. We simply are not that dumb."
Goetia, anyone? While this practice would certainly be more common in
groups which lean more heavily towards Ceremonial Magick, the summoning of
entities, including demons, to serve or perform a specific purpose is centuries
old. To suggest that someone is not a "Real Witch" simply because they happen
to do so is ludicrous.
pg. 15, par. 2
"...use Satanic symbols. The Witches' pentacle, or five-pointed star point-up
within a circle,
represents the four elements and the human, encompassed by Spirit. The
pentacle has
nothing to do with Satanism, and Witches get very, very upset with people
who match the
point-up pentacle with Satanism. Just as Witches do not invert the
Christian cross, they don't
appreciate it when someone inverts their symbol either."
This is absolutely beyond laughable. I'm nearly at a loss as to where to
even begin. Yes, the pentacle is representative of the five Elements (Spirit or
Akasha, Air, Fire, Water, and Earth). With the point up, it represents Spirit
ascendant above matter. Inverted it represents Spirit descending into matter.
For someone who claims to be an initiated Elder of Wicca, she seems completely
ignorant of the symbolism used in Second Degree initiation (which is not yet
Elder status) by admonishing her readers that inverting the pentacle is a "bad
thing". As to the use of the inverted pentacle as a Satanic symbol, it would
stand to reason that it is used by them as such specifically because it
represents Spirit descending into matter. Since many Satanists, particularly
the LaVeyan Satanists, worship the self rather than any literal entity known as
Satan, glorifying the practitioner as divinity in flesh and materialism are
natural, logical steps with the symbolism. Upright or inverted, the pentacle
has no moral "value" beyond that which the observer delegates to it, and what
is implied by the context in which it is used.
pg. 19, par. 2
"Real Witches do...
...know that the art of magick is our greatest gift. If we work bad magick,
Spirit will take our
gift(s) from us. If we work positive magick, then that good energy will
return to us threefold."
Nice heavy-handed moral manipulation. Oddly reminiscent of "do as I say or
you're doomed to burn in Hell."
pg. 101, par 1
"The textbook definition of 'magick' goes something like this: Using one's
will to create form. Magick requires belief in a higher power, and faith in
yourself. I've written scads of material on magick, and have read hundreds of
books on the topic as well. I've thought about magick, talked about magick, and
practiced magick for over twenty years. I've discovered that just as many
religions exist in the world, so too many magickal systems present themselves
from which the student may choose. I've learned that just as no religion is
better than another, so too no magickal system outshines another. And I've
learned that a magickal system isn't worth squat unless you plug that system
into a religion."
What?!?! Ye Gods, what a mess! First and foremost, the creation of form is
rarely a goal in Magickal work. Change, yes, but not form. As Aleister Crowley
defined it, Magick is "The Art and Science of creating change in conformity
with Will." I've found no better definition to date. Magick requires a belief
in a higher power? I guess someone had better inform the Atheist and Agnostic
mages I've had the pleasure of conversing with. What I really love though, is
the way she states here that no religion and no Magickal system is better than
another, then turns around and states that a Magickal system is worthless if
not plugged into a religion in the next breath. Simply amazing.
pg. 102, par. 1
"Whether you practice folk magick or ceremonial magick, both systems used
in a positive way have the following in common: All magick contains prayer. All
magick incorporates divinity. All magick concentrates on positive change."
All magick most certainly does not incorporate prayer, as any practitioner
of over twenty years should well know. Prayer is the petitioning of a deity to
cause something to occur. In Magick, the caster is working to cause that change
themself. They may certainly incorporate prayer to petition a deity to aid in
reaching the desired outcome of the spell, but that is not necessary.
pg. 104, par. 3
"Every magickal application, whether we are talking about spellwork,
ritual, drumming, singing, et cetera, involves prayer - making a request to
Spirit, honoring Spirit, or celebrating God all involve divinity. Every act of
magick begins with a desire...and a prayer."
See above.
pg. 106, par. 2
"To evoke means to bring forth from within ourselves an energy or force
outward into the universe."
She says she's been practicing Magick for over twenty years, and yet she
doesn't even know what evocation is within a Magickal paradigm.
pg. 130, par. 6
"The Dark Side - Witches Don't Go There
Witches do not work magick to harm others and we know that no real power lies
in evil."
Right. That's why there are so many versions of curse, binding, and
smiting, many of which have been around a good deal longer than her supposed
twenty years of practice. I suppose that's also why the saying "A witch who
can't harm can't heal" came about.
So, we have here an author who is blatantly targeting minors of other
faiths, moralizing for the entire community, has decided it is up to her to
determine who is and is not a "Real Witch", and is spewing blatant
misinformation. On top of this, she goes on in her book "Teen Witch" to
encourage minors to deceive their parents by the use of "sneak attacks" in
order to subvert their rules and wishes. The icing on the cake, however, is on
her own web site where she is promoting "Teen Witch". She states (current as of
this writing) "Teen Witch! Is at the bookstores NOW. Call 1-800-THE-MOON to
place your order, or bug, bother and pester your neighborhood book store till
they can't stand it any more. Oh, and for the adults that don't like this
statement? Maybe you don't care about their future, but I do." Excuse me?!?!
Not only is she going to encourage my kids to make obnoxious pests of
themselves, but also to turn against me because "I don't care" if I won't let
them have her book? "You're family doesn't care about you/understand you, but I
do" is a classic cultic hook. That alone is reason enough for many of us to
look with disgust at the turn her work has taken. That is not the manner in
which much of the Pagan community at large wishes to be represented.
Silver has to make a living. I understand that. She is most likely under
contract to write "X" number of books. I understand that as well. I would think
that she could at least make the effort to make them good, accurate books
though. Perhaps it is just as well that she now seems to be focusing on
fiction.
Neither Wicca, nor Witchcraft in general need or deserve to be sugar-coated
or dumbed down. If "Mama Silver" truly understood and respected her targeted
audience, she would not have felt it necessary to do so. Most teens certainly
don't need it, which leaves the likelihood that it was done for the "benefit"
of the parents of those teens. As a parent myself, that's not a ploy I
appreciate.
If someone takes it upon themself to teach, they need to teach without
patronizing, and teach accurate information. They need to do so in a way which
encourages communication, not deceit. They need to do it in an ethical manner,
without imposing their own personal ethics upon others. If they take it upon
themselves to represent a community, they need to ensure that they do just
that, rather than try to make the community conform to them. It is my opinion,
and that of many others within the Pagan community, that Silver has failed in
all these things. That is the problem with Silver RavenWolf.
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/vanthal/608/id140.htm
Brenda G. Tataryn
Brenda
Pope Cockroach the Green
> >One question:
> >
> >Have you read "To Ride a Silver Broomstick?"
>
> Yes. The first few books she wrote were really not so bad. But when she wrote
> Teen Witch, it started to get pretty bad. Just one example I can give- she
> encourages children to lie to their parents. I'm including an essay that goes
> into more detail about the pro's and con's of Mama$ilver. I am not saying don't
> read her- just use your best judgement, there are much better sources out
> there.
The reason I asked if you had read it is that many, many people just repeat what
has been said about Silver on this and other NG's without reading. If you've read,
then you're entitled to your opinion, and I welcome hearing it. :)
I won't deny that there are better sources out there, but I also believe that "To
Ride a Silver Broomstick" is actually a fairly decent introduction to Wicca. Heck,
it's even a fair intro to Paganism as a whole, since most group rituals are Wiccan
in orientation. I think that she gives many, many good ideas in the book and that
it's worth reading for any Pagan, regardless of path.
As for her other books, I can't attest. I've never read them (with the exception
of the "Teen Witch Kit," which is really, really bad). But from what I've seen, To
Ride a Silver Broomstick (or $ilver, if you'd prefer) is the book I'd reccomend for
a new Wiccan. I'll have to read the attached essay (which I snipped because it was
so damn long) and then the books to form an opinion of it.
Then again, I'm rarely Wiccan, so my viewpoint may be skewed. *grins*
(That last statement may throw out my entire credibility, but that's up to you to
decide.)
Ze kat lady
>Ride a Silver Broomstick" is actually a fairly decent introduction to Wicca.
>Heck,
>it's even a fair intro to Paganism as a whole
I agree. <g>
> her other books, I can't attest. I've never read them (with the exception
>of the "Teen Witch Kit," which is really, really bad).
I think Silver sunk to an all-time low with that one. :(
What next? Insta- Hex Kit?
>I'll have to read the attached essay (which I snipped because it was
>so damn long) and then the books to form an opinion of it.
I know, I know. It is a bit long. A very educated poster on AOL wrote that on
his site. He proves some good points in it, but I can tell he let some emotion
form his opinions.
>Then again, I'm rarely Wiccan, so my viewpoint may be skewed. *grins*
>
And I'm as Wiccan as I wanna be! <g>
Puck T. Smith
Truth hurts. Hit me, beat me, call me dirty names.
--
Puck the Smith [p_t_smith (at) hotmail (dot) com]
http://www.spellexchange.com/arwmfaces/ptsmith.html
***************************************************
The Earth is a witch and the men still burn her.
--Charlie Murphy
hy
>
> hY [hybi...@shaw.ca] said:
>
> > the_olphardt wrote:
> >> Isn't reading this newsgroup just a bit more like getting
> >> "ridden" BY > a broomstick?
> >
> > :) more like you are being beaten repetitively with a large
> > :pointy
> > stick with spikes.
> >
>
> Truth hurts. Hit me, beat me, call me dirty names.
*WHACK* WHORE!
Theoneflasehaddock
Funny, it always seemed to me more like stepping in a huge pile of
bullshit. But then again, maybe that's just me.
--
theoneflasehaddock
CDriver333
>if they saw me buying a book about "witchcraft". :-)
I was raised in a Christian family and had several books on my shelf about
Wicca, the supernatural, etc. My father even encouraged my interests, and we
had many long, enjoyable discussions. (He loved reading about paranormal
activity). I guess some Christians are just more tolerant than others...!
the_olphardt
"Theoneflasehaddock" <theonefla...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:4ca8e952.02011...@posting.google.com...
You wandered in without your hip boots, didn't you?
Joe
Puck T. Smith
Theoneflasehaddock
Hip boots? fuck, what I forgot was my tin foil hat.
--
theoneflasehaddock