Teacher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Donna Reece
Dove
Donna Reece wrote:
>
> I need a teacher to teach me WICCA PLEASE
I've noticed from your post to arw that Terry has forwarded you some information.
I'll add to that and forward a copy of the arwm FAQ's separately.
At the end of the FAQ's is a resources section, with a book list and contact
addresses. I'll copy them below at the end of this post.
To learn about Wicca you don't *have* to be in a 1 on 1 teacher/student situation.
Someone asking for a "Teacher" and giving up in disgust when not finding one really
limits the scope & potential. Be inventive. You can learn so much from other
avenues, not only books, but things like simply walking and thinking, by observing the
world around you, by looking into yourself and coming to terms with who you are and
what you would like to improve on. Wicca is a religion which focuses on getting in
touch with the Divine, however you percieve It/Them, the Divine within you, in the
world around you, and in different levels of existance. Yes, is does help very much
to have someone to talk to, to pose those 'stupid little questions' to, and that is
where mediums like this News Group are just brilliant. Everyone who answers my or
others posts, I am learning from, so therefore they are 'teaching' by default!
If you are looking for a mentor, my feeling is it would be best to have some idea of
the religion because there are *many* different paths. Get an idea of how *you* feel
and what you believe, then you would be able to judge if a certain teacher/mentor is
right for you. A common guideline is 'a year and a day' of study. I know it sounds
like a long time! But, it gives you a chance to find your feet. Over the course of a
year, you can look at things like the different seasons and Sabbats and Esbats
(celebratory rituals) that tend to be a common factor within the religion, see how
each season affects you, keep notes on these in a diary or a Book of Shadows as it is
known. If you do happen to meet someone who you think would make a good teacher, you
are also showing them that you have the get-up-and-go to work on things yourself, and
you have put a bit of thought into which path you want to take. It also gives you an
idea of what behaviour *not* to accept! You may meet a Coven, you may decide to go it
alone. There are lots of choices!
A question to the Group: I have heard that there is a general rule of not taking on a
student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule?
Back to Donna: I hope that this has helped a little. Again, the News Group is here if
you have any questions!
Blessed be,
Dove
(posted and emailed)
++++++++++++
6. Resources
6.1 Introductory books on Wicca and Magic
* Stewart Farrar - What Witches Do: A Modern Coven Revealed
* Aidan A. Kelly - Crafting the Art of Magic
* Doreen Valiente - Witchcraft for Tomorrow
* Margot Adler - Drawing Down the Moon
* Starhawk - The Spiral Dance
* Scott Cunningham - Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner
* Silver Ravenwolf - To Ride a Silver Broomstick
* Raymond Buckland - Complete Book of Witchcraft
* Vivianne Crowley - Wicca: the Old Religion in the New Age
* Rae Beth - 'Hedge Witch' or in the USA: 'The Wiccan Path'
* Don Kraig - Modern Magick
* Michael Howard - Practical Magic
6.2 Other Usenet Newsgroups
alt.religion.wicca
alt.pagan
soc.religion.paganism (moderated)
alt.magick
alt.religion.shamanism
soc.religion.shamanism (moderated)
alt.mythology
alt.divination
alt.satanism
6.3 Wiccan/Neo-Pagan Umbrella Organizations
* Covenant of the Goddess (CoG): PO Box 1226, Berkeley, CA 94704 USA
http://www.cog.org/
* Pan Pacific Pagan Alliance: PO Box 823, Bathurst, NSW 2795 Australia
http://www.summit.net.au/pppa/
* Pagan Alliance (NZ) P.A.N.Z, P O Box 33 Petone Wellington New Zealand
* The Pagan Federation: BM7097, London, WC1N 3XX United Kingdom
http://www.paganfed.demon.co.uk
* Pagans for Peace: PO Box 2205 Clearbrook BC V2T 3X8 Canada
* The Witches Voice Inc: PO Box 4924, Clearwater, Florida 33758-4924 USA
http://www.witchvox.com
* Church of All Worlds (CAW) - has "Nests" around the world
http://www.caw.org/
* Wiccan Church of Canada-Ottawa Temple, P.O.Box 57026 Ottawa
Ont. K1R 6P0 Canada - also has temples in Toronto and Hamilton
http://www.wcc.on.ca/
* Witches Against Religious Discrimination PO Box 5967 Providence RI
02903 USA
6.4 Other Organisations
* ACLU - American Civil Liberties Union - many affiliates in USA
http://www.aclu.org/
* Military WARD, PO Box 2610, McKinleyville CA 95521-2610, USA
6.5 Established Wiccan/Neo-Pagan Periodicals
* Pagan Dawn (Pagan Fed, UK) BM Box 7079 London WC1N 3XX United Kingdom
* Pagan Times - The Editor, PO Box 823, Bathurst, N.S.W. 2795.
* Green Egg: PO Box 1542, Ukiah, CA 95482-1542 USA
http://www.caw.org/green-egg/
* Circle Network News: PO Box 219, Mt Horeb WI 53572 USA
* From the Heart/h Pagan Parenting 728 Derrydown Way Decatur GA 30030 USA
* Quest: BCM/SCL Quest, London WC1N 3XX UK
* PanTheology: PO Box 300 ACT 2601 Australia
6.6 Contact/Networking Publications
* Ace of Rods: BMC Akademia, London WC1N 3XX United Kingdom
* GRAIL Directory: GPO Box 1444, Canberra City 2601 ACT Australia
++++++++++++++++++++
Wyldcat
>A question to the Group: I have heard that there is a general rule of not taking on a
>student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule?
>
In some parts of the US there are laws against teaching religion to
minors without parental consent. I believe they were origionally put
in place to discourage some of the more fundamentalist Christians from
trying to "coerce" local children into thier groups.
Blesse Be,
Wyldcat
SAD...@concentric.net
>A question to the Group: I have heard that there is a general rule of not
taking on a
>student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule?
>
I would like to know the answer to that too. I heard it was a Legal one (us
forcing our views on minors, or so they say)
or perhaps there is a view that you have to be of a certain maturity level
to begin study...
or both, or neither...
I dunno ~ Phoebe
Dragonmama
: >A question to the Group: I have heard that there is a general rule of not
: taking on a
: >student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule?
: >
: I would like to know the answer to that too. I heard it was a Legal one (us
: forcing our views on minors, or so they say)
: or perhaps there is a view that you have to be of a certain maturity level
: to begin study...
: or both, or neither...
: I dunno ~ Phoebe
I was at a CoG meeting in San Francisco years ago, in which one of the
members complained of being hassled by parents of a young student, and
having cops on hir doorstep. There was much discussion, and it came dowm
to, "For your own protection, insist on written and notarized permission
from at least one parent or guardian before you teach a minor to ground,
even."
This was at the time a well-known SF teacher was nearly accused of murder,
because one of hir students went swimming on a beach at midnight, and was
found nastily murdered next morning. The assumption seemed to be, "This
person is a Witch, and gay. The kid was emerging as gay. Therefore, the
teacher made a pass at the kid, the kid said no, and so the teacher
ritually murdered hir." The police finally had to give up, as they could
not prove anything, but the kid's Fundy dad went to Unsolved Mysteries,
which then tried to involve not only the teacher but the SCA! More than
ten years later, the murder remains unsolved, but the teacher's life was
screwed up thoroughly.
It has become almost a tradition to just not teach minors. When I was
actively teaching, I would just have a minor's parents sign a notarized
statement of permission for the kid to learn Wicca. That way, if the
parents later tried to claim I was leading their child astray, I had it
in writing that I was teaching the minor *with their permission*.
It's not fair that a kid has to either get hir parents to sign a
permission, and pay to have it notarized, or wait to have a partiular
birthday, but there it is. Life is not fair, it just is.
Dragonmama
--
***********************************************************************
"The world will go as it will, not as you or I would have it."
Marion Zimmer Bradley
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
There I was at 30,000 feet, flat on my back with a face full of flack,
when all of a sudden the automatic pilot bailed out...
************************************************************************
Angel Spivey
: >A question to the Group: I have heard that there is a general rule of not
: taking on a
: >student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule?
: >
: I would like to know the answer to that too. I heard it was a Legal one (us
: forcing our views on minors, or so they say)
: or perhaps there is a view that you have to be of a certain maturity level
: to begin study...
: or both, or neither...
: I dunno ~ Phoebe
I would venture to guess that it is either an actually legal rule
(without written parental consent), or that it is a rule designed to not
place people in a legal situation. 18 being the ago of legal "adulthood" in
the United States, it makes a good line to draw if one has to be drawn.
I'll see what I can find, though I have no clue where to look. :)
Angel
Shez
<drag...@netcom.com> writes
>It has become almost a tradition to just not teach minors. When I was
>actively teaching, I would just have a minor's parents sign a notarized
>statement of permission for the kid to learn Wicca. That way, if the
>parents later tried to claim I was leading their child astray, I had it
>in writing that I was teaching the minor *with their permission*.
>
>It's not fair that a kid has to either get hir parents to sign a
>permission, and pay to have it notarized, or wait to have a partiular
>birthday, but there it is. Life is not fair, it just is.
>
>Dragonmama
On the other hand Dragonmama their are some groups out their I wouldnt
want to see any person at any age involved in. and being a parent
myself , I am perhaps more aware of them. mostly because I have at times
had to put the peices back together, I am sure you have to,
If I could be sure that a minor was going to a safe group that ran
family rituals, then I would not object, but some are simply coasting
for new young blood.
If someone under the age of consent decides to become wiccan, or pagan,
or Islamic for that matter, then their are groups on the internet, lots
of books around, and lots of information available once they start to
look.
Once they are 18 its totaly up to them. hopefully by that time they will
have learned a little bit of perspective and self preservation, and not
just jump into the first group they find.
--
Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
The 'Old Craft' lady http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/shez/
Kelli
there...and if they're going to stick with wicca, there will be plenty of time
to get a teacher later...waiting a few years certainly wont kill them, and they
can do some of their own exploration in the meantime
--
-Kelli
GOD is coming, and boy, is she pissed.
Has my newsreader screwed itself over again making my posts impossible to read?
If so, please email me at Sligh...@usa.net so I can fix it.
Thanks.
ma...@my-dejanews.com
> Dove wrote:
>
> >A question to the Group: I have heard that there is a general rule of not
taking on a
> >student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule?
> >
>
> minors without parental consent. I believe they were origionally put
> in place to discourage some of the more fundamentalist Christians from
> trying to "coerce" local children into thier groups.
>
> Blesse Be,
> Wyldcat
I've read somewhere that many covens refuse to teach minors to keep themselves
out of legal troubles with minors parents. It's a regretful but needed rule I
guess. I could see where people running a coven could be taken to court for
teaching a minor against the parents wishes, at least here in the US. I don't
know of any moral rules about teaching a minor though.
*BB*
-matt
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Shiva
>Once they are 18 its totaly up to them. hopefully by that
time they will
>have learned a little bit of perspective and self
preservation, and not
>just jump into the first group they find.
>--
>Shez
sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
>The 'Old Craft' lady
http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/shez/
>
Which brings up the point that because there are so FEW
teachers out there, or what little number there are are so
hard to find, many potential students feel they have to take
the first thing they can get, or they won't get anything.
Hopefully, by the time a student is 18, they will have found
a sense of self-importance; enough to know that not just
anything will do. Unfortunatley, not everyone can take the
initiative and teach themselves until they find someone
else. It must be a huge turn off to not have anyone to help
you when you're just starting something out.
namaste,
Shiva
DayaLi
> SAD...@concentric.net wrote:
>
>
> : >A question to the Group: I have heard that there is a general rule of not
> : taking on a
> : >student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule?
>
> : I would like to know the answer to that too. I heard it was a Legal one (us
> : forcing our views on minors, or so they say)
> : or perhaps there is a view that you have to be of a certain maturity level
> : to begin study...
> : or both, or neither...
> : I dunno ~ Phoebe
>
> I would venture to guess that it is either an actually legal rule
> (without written parental consent), or that it is a rule designed to not
> place people in a legal situation. 18 being the ago of legal "adulthood" in
> the United States, it makes a good line to draw if one has to be drawn.
> I'll see what I can find, though I have no clue where to look. :)
>
> Angel
>
>
consent if the student is under 18, as well as meeting witht he parents,
guardians what have you. and Yes, there are a few that will circumvent
this ethic. The age of consent used to vary state by state, I don't know
if Free, Human and 18 is the way it goes outside of California and NY. I
also teach, and I require parental consent, and I'm teaching shamanistic
skills for the Urban Jungle. No religion here, just training the senses
to be more aware of urban surroundings.
Bless,
DayaLi
--
An Open and Critical Mind - the Antidote to Dogma Poisoning
Shez
<jpl...@bitstorm.net> writes
brought up pagan, I know how lucky I am to have had that head start, but
some of my students came into the pagan paths later in life, and they
had some real nasty experiences, that the experiences didnt turn them
sour towards pagans is a miracle that they had to sense to realise that
they had just found a bad group or teacher, and that they didnt condeme
the whole of the pagan movement astonishes me.
One so called teacher in this area, wanted to sleep with young girls,
because he was convinced that his seed would produce the next king child
a sort of King arthur for the twentieth century. he didnt want men in
the group who would compete for these sexual favours, and he used every
method he could to get these young girls pregnant, fortunatly he appears
to be sterile. (grin) he is no longer in this area, no longer has a
group, and dousnt find his charisma works well anymore. but myself and
other local teachers had to pick up the peices it was basically rape
using drugs, and fear to bring women to his bed,
He was not alone, he just set up camp in the wrong place, their are men
like him and women like him who are either deluded, or controlers, it
happens. a teacher who wants to use and abuse often picks on younger
people because they dont have the experience to see through them.
If I had found anyone in his grip under sixteen I would certainly have
reported him to the police.as it was they were usualy just of legal age.
I have never accepted anyone under the age of 20 usually older, simply
because I find young people need time to become mature to make a
decision based on study not just
emotion.
>
their are however young people who are mature enough at a much younger
age, but they are few and far between, I would rather see them wait, and
join a group at an older age. the majority of very young people do not
yet have the experience or maturity to make a decision based on a few
weeks reading from pagan and wiccan books.
Its hard on those who are able and capable, but it would be much harder
on the many more who are not yet mature enough to choose the right group
or teacher.
Susan Martinez
Donna Reece wrote in message <01bdeaca$da6b4b40$2f27430c@default>...
>I need a teacher to teach me WICCA PLEASE
>
is how I actually "stumbled" upon Wicca, and then I really began to study
and learn on my own. I have read most of the books on that list, and I would
also recommend them. If you would like further reading recommendations, I
could suggest some others as well.
I have been on this path for a few years now, and at times I have wished for
a teacher. So, I just asked the Goddess to put someone in my path. I have
not found a teacher per se, but she did bring other wiccans in to my path. I
have made some new friends, who are people I can share with and we also
learn from each other.I have heard people say that a teacher will be found
when the student is truly ready...
In any case it can't hurt to study some on your own. Another suggestion that
I could make is the following: If there are any new age stores, witch shops,
or pagan stores in your area, talk to some of the people in these places.
Sometimes you can find people there who actually teach Wicca 101 courses.
You never know, you could find a class in your area.
In the meantime, just as Dove stated, you can always ask questions to people
in the group here. I am rather new to the group, but I have found people to
be good hearted and friendly here. I don't think anyone will knock you for
asking questions. We are all here to learn, to be able to share our ideas
,and to help out others when we can.
Good luck on your path... Silvermoon
klc98
their parents would have the right to press a legal suit against the person or
coven. There is so much prejudice out there that it is safer for covens to
wait and let people come to them when they are of "legal age". Then there is
no issue of 'who contacted/recruited who'. This is hard because there are so
many young wiccans out there looking for information. It is hard to see them
looking around in the dark for clues. Those who persist usually find that this
time of solitary exploration is a growing time for them. They learn discipline
and strength and will later make good additions to covens, if they choose to
study with one.
Blessed Be,
Caiycia
SAD...@concentric.net wrote:
> >A question to the Group: I have heard that there is a general rule of not
> taking on a
> >student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule?
> >
>
Lee Coles
>I've heard that this is a legal issue. Until the person is legally an adult,
>their parents would have the right to press a legal suit against the person or
>coven. There is so much prejudice out there that it is safer for covens to
>wait and let people come to them when they are of "legal age". Then there is
>no issue of 'who contacted/recruited who'. This is hard because there are so
>many young wiccans out there looking for information. It is hard to see them
>looking around in the dark for clues. Those who persist usually find that this
>time of solitary exploration is a growing time for them. They learn discipline
>and strength and will later make good additions to covens, if they choose to
>study with one.
>
>Blessed Be,
>Caiycia
>
>SAD...@concentric.net wrote:
>
>> >A question to the Group: I have heard that there is a general rule of not
>> taking on a
>> >student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule?
>> >
>>
>> I would like to know the answer to that too. I heard it was a Legal one (us
>> forcing our views on minors, or so they say)
>> or perhaps there is a view that you have to be of a certain maturity level
>> to begin study...
>> or both, or neither...
>> I dunno ~ Phoebe
>
>
>
I would say it is legal for the fact that some parents might not like
the idea of their child being part of wicca(occult). With the child
being a youngester under their parents protection they could have
lawsuit against you. Under the idea that you are brainwashing the
child.
Loki
Dove wrote in message <3612A0...@ozemail.com.au>...
>Merry meet Donna,
>
>Donna Reece wrote:
>>
>> I need a teacher to teach me WICCA PLEASE
>
>A question to the Group: I have heard that there is a general rule of not
taking on a
>student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule?
>
>Back to Donna: I hope that this has helped a little. Again, the News Group
is here if
>you have any questions!
>
>Blessed be,
>Dove
Loki wrote
Blessed Be I've lurked her for a while, and I visit the group when I can.
perhaps I can through some light on the question about age for students. I
can only speak from my own teachings which were from Basque/Celtic tradition
which I learned here in the UK, they are very similar to the Gardnerian
school.
In the UK it is normal not to take on a student under 18 although some will
not accept any under 25; however there are exceptions. you of course can
introduce your own children slowly from any age, but more than likely not
allowing them to take an active part of a circle until they are at least 16
and then only for the festivals. As for those who are not related, this is a
difficult question; in the UK most covens work on the 18 rule, this is to
avoid legal problems if, for example the students parents object, and
because of the moral situation imposed on us from Victorian times.
However the rule I personally work on is, If someone at sixteen shows the
maturity to commit and learn then I will take them on, this is more of an
exception rather than the rule. Normally I would say 18, but then it still
depends on their maturity and commitment.
I hope that this has shed some light on a potentially difficult subject.
Blessed Be Loki
Loyd
Angel Spivey wrote in message <3612b...@news.cc.umr.edu>...
>SAD...@concentric.net wrote:
>
>
>: >A question to the Group: I have heard that there is a general rule of
not
>: taking on a
>: >student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule?
>
>: I would like to know the answer to that too. I heard it was a Legal one
(us
>: forcing our views on minors, or so they say)
>: or perhaps there is a view that you have to be of a certain maturity
level
>: to begin study...
>: or both, or neither...
>: I dunno ~ Phoebe
This issue comes up all the time for anyone who works with children. It's a
legal rule but not part of the criminal code in most places, although a
particularly mean-minded prosecutor might try to make trouble with some sort
of morality charge, especially if you teach non-Christian ideas.
What can happen anywhere is that the parents can file suit against the
teacher for "alienation of affection," and have a fair chance of success
(juries are a little unpredictable, but the law is against you if you do
teach anyone underage and the parents want to make an issue).
Mike Rodgers
ma...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <6uurlv$5v1$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
not
>taking on a
>> >student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule?
>> >
>>
>> minors without parental consent. I believe they were origionally put
>> in place to discourage some of the more fundamentalist Christians from
>> trying to "coerce" local children into thier groups.
>>
>> Blesse Be,
>> Wyldcat
First the question.
Why isn't this law applied to the Christians who try to convert our
children?
Now the observation.
In my lifetime as a Pagan I have often seen minors interested in Paganism
form their own Covens. This often results in the blind leading the blind.
If we want our beliefs to survive we need to find these kids and teach them,
after all they are our future. If as they grow spiritually they find
themselves drawn to another path then at least they will remember what they
have learned from us instead of falling for the God Squad's propaganda.
Blessings,
The Fluid Druid
theflu...@hotmail.com
http://members.xoom.com/fluiddruid
Faile
You're kidding, right? I used to be a fundie, sadly. I can tell you that this nation is still a Christian nation and the wrong information out there about us Wiccans is that we are (insert spooky music) occult or "a" cult and will twist the poor litle kids minds and use them for sacrifices, sex, and to turn them into mindless drones who give over all their money, period. Now, I know some really wonderful people who are Christians in the most positive sense of the term who know better then to believe all that nonsense. But, between Hollywierd and the general propoganda, we would be in deep shit if we taught a minor without getting the legal written consent of all legal guardians before hand.>> Dove wrote: >> >> >A question to the Group: I have heard that there is a general rule of not >taking on a >> >student who is under 18. Is this a legal or moral rule? >> > >> >> In some parts of the US there are laws against teaching religion to >> minors without parental consent. I believe they were origionally put >> in place to discourage some of the more fundamentalist Christians from >> trying to "coerce" local children into thier groups. >> >> Blesse Be, >> Wyldcat I have one question and one observation. First the question. Why isn't this law applied to the Christians who try to convert our children?
But, I agree that it's a real shame that young people don't seem to have the same rights when it comes to beliefs of a spiritual nature. They need to be given all the information and tools necessary to make sound, lasting, independant decisions about their spirituality, IMHO. Maybe, just maybe, we'd have a bit less kids killing kids, etc going on out there!
Blessings,
Faile
Muad_Dib
Muad_Dib
Donna Reece <Pudi...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<01bdeaca$da6b4b40$2f27430c@default>...
Felis Uncia
Hash: SHA1
Mouse,
Why do you find this humorous?
- ---Ounce (Felis uncia)
<ac...@teleport.com>
On Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:13:57 CST, "Muad_Dib" <loneh...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
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72Oik44gQ2jOt2iSQnXLwVTz
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Chris Adams
>
>to be a legitimate request than not. I don't quite understand its
>perceived risibility.
Perhaps I can offer an explanation of why I, personally, find it slightly
amusing . . .
On the alt.horror newsgroup (where I post often) there is a running joke or
nine . . . one of which is posting "Send me horror pics" or some badly
misspelled variant ("Sed mee horur piks").
This is vaguely reminiscent . . . perhaps there's a similar story behind the
original laugh.
Weird, I know, but hey . . . it's what I live for.
Chris Adams
faranno dei cimiteri le loro cattedrali
e delle citta le vostre tombe.
The very freedom of speech and belief
that lets racist and religious bigots
spew forth their drivel is what protects
us from them ever gaining power.
Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December;
And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.
Eagerly I wished the morrow; vainly I had sought to borrow
>From my books surcease of sorrow - sorrow for the lost Lenore -
For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore -
Nameless here for evermore.
- Edgar Allen Poe, "The Raven"