J Swift and blownforgood interchange on Clambake has OVERWHELMING amounts of NEW INFO, re Rinder, Tom Cruise, DM, Tommy Davis
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
This above link is the beginning of absolute THE most huge amount of
new info. Must reading to stay on top of all the latest leaks.
Here's blownforgood's one long answer within the whole thread.
There is a massive amount of historical vital INFO in this thread.
About 20 minutes of reading in this thread.
Posted: 19 Sep 2007 10:26 Post subject: The Rise of Rinder and
Other Notes
Subject description: OSA - Want to make a trade? I will take payment
in the form of one direct relative!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay. A few notes. This is no dig on your posts Swift, but I have only
posted here with the intention of spreading the exact true info on
what has happened and what is happening and the reasons behind them.
With that in mind, I have made a few notes that back up what you have
said or explain them in greater detail with background info where I
felt it was needed.
In regards to Mike Rinder - first of all, Rinder did not fall. His
rose up and got out. Best thing he ever did for any of us or himself.
When someone is at the Int Base, they have been brainwashed and
poisoned by Dave Miscavige into thinking a certain way. In Mike's
eyes, he was doing what was best for the entire human race and all
eternity. It took awhile, but through years of abuse, he was able to
see that this was not the case and he got out.
So now that he is out and that is in the past, let's try not to trash
talk the hell out of him. He has to start his entire life over now. I
would think that all that he has been subjected to over the last 30
years would be enough punishment for whatever wrong was done during
that same time.
Now to answering/commenting on some of Swift's items.
The BBC PR Flap was the final straw that brought down Mike Rinder.
BBC Flap most definitely was the straw that broke Mike Rinder's back.
He blew from England Dave Miscavige threatened him for the last time.
2. A German Gov't Minister allegedly asked Tom Cruise directly why
United Artists should be allowed to shoot Cruise's movie in Germany
when CoS was suppressing free speech in America by harassing a BBC
reporter. This triggered a round of phone calls between Cruise and
DM.
Sure Tom called DM. And DM immediately gave out lashings right
afterwards. The call that went to Rinder was the last time Dave would
talk to Rinder.
3. Always one to keep Scientology's Jesus Christ happy, DM blamed
Rinder for allowing Tommy Davis to use out PR techniques on the BBC.
Rinder was likewise blamed for not flying down to Florida immediately
and taking over the "BBC Handling" after the scene on the rooftop
where Tommy Davis confronted Sweeney and Shaun Lonsdale.
Rinder was PRESENT for a lot of the Tommy interviews you can actually
see him in the background in some of them not saying a word.
3A. Rinder was said to have been getting digital footage of everything
Tommy was doing in near real time. DM reportedly had left most of the
BBC Handling to Rinder as he was busy putting all of his finishing
touches on the Basics release. There was said to be many serious last
minute problems with the Basics release that drew DM's attention
away.
Dave Miscavige is the only one who gets footage. The tapes are shot by
Jesse Radstrom (Gold Video Team & former RTC staff member) they then
get driven to Gold, turned into digital files and sent to Dave
Miscavige no matter he might be. He has a T3 internet line at every
single office location around the world so that he can be sent huge
video files in minutes.
Sure the Basics release was behind with last minute problems, but so
has every other release in the last 15 years! It is normal for all
aspects of production to get redone multiple times and still have
something screwed up with them when they do get released.
Also Dave is often working on 750,000 items at the same time. This is
why nothing can ever get done at the Int base. Dave has set himself up
as the final approval on so many things, he cannot even get to them to
get them approved. He has multiple stacks of proposals over ten feet
high in his offices. Each submission must be in an exact format, full
CSW and in most cases, if Dave has ever said anything about the
subject, then you must have M9 word cleared these transcripts to be
able to even present a submission for review by him. This being said,
he is the final approval on the following items:
1. RTC important matters needed urgent attention
2. RTC postings
3. RTC transfers
4. RTC financial proposals
5. RTC building plans
6. RTC org boards
7. RTC Comm-Evs
8. RTC RPF Assignments
9. ASI important matters needed urgent attention
10. ASI postings
11. ASI transfers
12. ASI financial proposals
13. ASI building plans
14. ASI vehicle purchases
15. ASI org boards
16. ASI event plans
17. ASI Comm-Evs
18. ASI RPF Assignments
19. ASI special properties book designs
20. ASI books to tape plans
21. ASI books to tape designs
22. ASI books to tape final products
23. ASI marketing plans
24. Dave Miscavige Personal investments proposals
25. Church investments proposals
26. OSA matters
27. Daily press updates / handlings
28. Legal plans
29. Threat handling plans
30. Attorney meetings
31. Ongoing investigations / sec-check KR's / handlings
32. Court Case plans
33. CST important matters needed urgent attention
34. CST postings
35. CST transfers
36. CST financial proposals
37. CST building plans
38. CST vehicle purchases
39. CST org boards
40. CST Comm-Evs
41. CST RPF Assignments
42. Archival facility location
43. Archival facility design
44. Archival capsule design
45. Archival capsule material proposal
46. Archival capsule layout
47. Archival capsule contents by capsules
48. Overall archival capsule layout at archival facility
49. Archival records
50. Archival books
51. Archival record players
52. Book design/plan
53. Book front matter copy
54. Book back matter copy
55. Book cover art
56. Book cover text
57. Book cover design
58. Book Insert card copy
59. Book glossary
60. Book index
61. Book spine design
62. Book style
63. Book Edit
64. Book course checksheet
65. Book course pack
66. Book course pack cover
67. Book package design
68. Book package final art
69. Book package packaging
70. Book Marketing plans
71. Course checksheet
72. Course pack
73. Course pack cover
74. Course pack package design
75. Course pack package final art
76. Course pack packaging
77. Course Marketing plans
78. Delivery Course - Course checksheet (this is the course that tells
you how to teach people to deliver the course)
79. Delivery Course - Course pack
80. Delivery Course - Course pack cover
81. Delivery Course - Course pack package design
82. Delivery Course - Course pack package final art
83. Delivery Course - Course pack packaging
84. C/S Delivery Course - Course checksheet (this is the course that
tells you how to teach people to C/S the course)
85. C/S Delivery Course - Course pack
86. C/S Delivery Course - Course pack cover
87. C/S Delivery Course - Course pack package design
88. C/S Delivery Course - Course pack package final art
89. C/S Delivery Course - Course pack packaging
90. Repair Course - Course checksheet (this is the course that tells
you how to fix people that have done any of the three above courses)
91. Repair Course - Course pack
92. Repair Course - Course pack cover
93. Repair Course - Course pack package design
94. Repair Course - Course pack package final art
95. Repair Course - Course pack packaging
96. New building proposals
97. New building purchase
98. New building layout
99. New building designs
100. New building carpet
101. New building interior signage
102. New building outdoor sign
103. New building promotion
104. New building opening event invitation
105. New building opening plan
106. New building staff uniform design
107. New building opening speeches
108. New building opening event
109. New building opening staff members
110. New building opening Executive Director postings
111. New building opening Test center location
112. New building opening even video offline edit
113. New building video music plans
114. New building video music treatments
115. New building video music scores
116. New building video music mixes
117. New building video Offline Edits
118. New building video Online Edits
119. New building video visual effects shots
120. New building marketing plans
121. Test center layout
122. Test center designs
123. Test center opening plan
124. Test center opening speeches
125. Test center opening event
126. Test center opening staff members
127. Test center marketing plans
128. Any Int base postings
129. Any Int base org boards
130. Any Int important matters needed urgent attention
131. Any Int postings
132. Any Int transfers
133. Any Int financial proposals
134. Any Int building plans
135. Any Int vehicle purchases
136. Any Int org boards
137. Any Int Comm-Evs
138. Any Int RPF Assignments
139. Any org boards anywhere
140. Middle Management executive postings
141. Any existing buildings renovations plans
142. Any existing buildings renovations plans
143. Any fleet purchases
144.
145. CD artwork
146. CD binder artwork
147. CD transcript artwork
148. CD transcript glossary
149. CD text
150. CD edit
151. CD audio mix
152. CD promo artwork
153. CD single package design
154. CD single package artwork
155.
156. Video idea
157. Video treatments
158. Video scripts
159. Video music plans
160. Video music treatments
161. Video music scores
162. Video music mixes
163. Video Offline Edits
164. Video Online Edits
165. Video visual effects shots
166. Film treatments
167. Film scripts
168. Film Sets & Props design
169. Film Costumes design
170. Film actors
171. Film Director's Interpretation
172. Film stock tests
173. Film Dailies
174. Film music plans
175. Film music treatments
176. Film music scores
177. Film music mixes
178. Film visual effects shots
179. Film Edits
180. Film Color timing
181. Final Film print
182. Final film digital version with final mix
183. Film System
184. Event plan
185. Event location
186. Event hall
187. Event date
188. Event motif
189. Event releases
190. Event after-event sales patter
191. Event after-event sales package
192. Event after-event sales package income spending plan
193. Event set design
194. Event costume design
195. Event hall design
196. Event speeches
197. Event speakers
198. Event make-up person
199. Event camera plan
200. Event hall sound acoustics
201. Event hall balloon drop plan
202. Event podium height
203. Event podium bulletproofing
204. Event podium tele-prompters set-up and positioning
205. Event awards
206. Event awardees
207. Event awards presenters
208. Event awards presenters assistants
209. Event personnel
210. Professional Event Crew (non-SO)
This is about 1/10th the full list of what HE REQUIRES that he
approve. I am sure that the list is over 1000 individual items that he
requires someone do a full submission to him through about 3-10 other
people before it even gets to him.
This is how most people are removed from post. From either submitting
something to him that is so destructive to scientology that they must
be removed from post, or they were someone on the submission routing
who rubber stamped it and passed it on to Dave.
Ray Mitoff approved the last Dianetics How-To video without even
reading the CSW or watching the video!!!!!! This was the video that
was going to teach millions of people how to audit Dianetics, and Ray
did not even watch it. It was submitted through him to Dave for
Technical side check. Needless to say, when quizzed on the video by
Dave Miscavige, Ray did not fair to well and another staff beating was
added to Dave's long list.
The point of all this is, that Dave was not distracted by the BBC
thing or the Basics release. Dave is so psychotically dispersed onto
the above list and 50,000 other things that he is on full time crazy
mode and how he is able to do anything is a miracle.
3B. DM blamed Rinder for allowing the BBC Handling to get out of hand
and fucking things up for Tom Cruise. However, DM had approved the Op
and Tommy Davis was supposed to bullbait Sweeney according to my
source. When DM saw what it really looked like on video, he salvaged
what he could by ordering Golden Era to make 100,000 copies of the DVD
on an emergency basis -- a Hill 10 -- to out create the BBC. The
apparent goal was to flood CoS publics with the DVD more than anything
else because the $5,000 Basics release package was getting ready to be
released. The 100,000 copies were supposedly never finished. The first
run of something like 25,000 copies was all that was done.
DM blamed Rinder for the flap. He always has to put a face on the
flaps. But, Tom Cruise considers himself on the same level as Dave and
knows about the SP situation at the Int base and about several
executives there being declared SPs for the past few years, etc.
Dave once said that if he could, he would make Tom Cruise "IG" of the
Church. Tom might have even said WTF? To Dave and how could he let
this happen. You can bet that Tom told Dave that this better not fuck
over his movie and that the money Tom makes from the movies is what is
paying for the new orgs being bought and renovated.
So yeah, Tom called Dave and Dave got his ass handed to him by Tom.
Dave hates that when that happens. Dave cannot pissed off the Tomster.
No way, no how!
Well Tom Cruise could easily see that Tommy Davis was the one that
caused the flap, not Rinder. That is why Tommy had to take a fall
regardless of what happened with Rinder.
Tom is so hardcore that he poses a threat to Dave. He could publicly
denounce Dave and then Dave would have a real big problem on his hand.
Tom could also walk away and Dave would have an equally big problem on
his hands. Dave has a very delicate situation with Tom Cruise now.
4. There was supposedly nasty behind-closed-doors meetings in which DM
said that he intended to root out all SP's in upper strata of CoS or
OSA who were feeding entheta to anyone outside the Church. All OSA
personnel with internet access are being sec checked. There are
reportedly more leaks than ever and that is one reason Gold Base has
been locked down and several key people relocated to AOLA or Flag. DM
is said to have imposed a general lockdown with no libs so that the
Basics launch would be go perfectly. Reports are that there was a
sharp spike in GI following the Basics launch and that it is now
tapering off sooner than expected.
This meeting takes place about every three months. The people in the
room just get reduced in quantity and more scared each meeting. Soon
Dave will be meeting with himself. The leaks are at an all time high.
You have people on the inside that are sick and tired of the Dave
Miscavige Scientology and they are more than willing to tell as many
people as much as possible to get the word out on the things going
on.
4A. BFG is seen as a problem to be handled. CoS does not like this
data line to the critics community.
That would be my guess as well. I think that the OSA goon parked
outside my apartment right now confirms that. I have offered a truce
many times. I have said that I would be more than willing to trade one
direct family member and stop posting. No family member has shown up
and therefore the posts continue. They will continue non-stop until I
get the one family member that they are hiding away. I have already
gotten multiple people out of their ranks from outside and I will
continue to expose each and every security breach with a missing staff
member from the Int base until this is over.
They know who I am. They know where I live. They know I have so much
insane data that they really would rather not be posted on the
Internet. They know I have connection to a huge amount of their well
know public. Yet, they have never once approached me in person and
told me that they would handle the one thing that I have requested the
turn over to me. They have attempted to blackmail my associates. They
have attempted to have my associates blackmail me.
I have them recorded on video and audio tape in a public place meeting
with other declared SP Scientologists making deals to let them see
their families again if they were to get blackmail material on me!
OSA should ask themselves what would be better, for a single person to
disappear among their ranks or thousands?
Or better yet, how many more OSA and RTC staff will be sent to RPF's
and "the Hall" due to these postings before the family member is
ordered turned over by Dave Miscavige in the end anyway?
The choice is yours. If I were you, I would do the action that would
result in the greatest good for the greatest number of your sorry
asses left.
4B. DM is reportedly disturbed by the stories that he has physically
abused his staff. My source recommends that anyone who has been abused
by DM to document it in an affidavit as to time, place, form, etc. and
then give copies to trusted friends.
Great advice. Yeah, also inform your immediate family and next of kin
that you feel threatened and unsafe from Scientology and that if
ANYTHING happens to you, that Dave Miscavige himself was responsible
for arranging it. That is what Dave hates more than anything in the
world. Being named individually in anything. He does not mind when
Scientology goes to trial, but when HE HIMSELF has to get involved,
wow, that gets his motor running big time.
5. Rinder blew when he got word from inside that he was to be placed
in the Hall of Inmates where he would have been a very hated person.
My source said that Rinder was responsible for putting many of the
people into the Hall of Inmates when he was consolidating his own
power during the past five years.
Rinder placed nobody in the hall. Dave is the ONLY ONE who says who
goes into the hall. Mike was leaving from "the Hall," "the room"
before that and the ditch digging at berthing before that to do these
handlings. These excursions were pleasant activities compared to what
Rinder was being subjected to when "home." Rinder has been being
controlled by Dave for the last five years. The only thing Rinder did
when he was not being controlled by Dave was try and get some sleep. I
am not trying to give props to Mike Rinder here.
I am just trying to paint the true picture. Mike was doing what Dave
told him to do for fear of being subjected to untold amounts of pain
and suffering as well as full time public ridicule within the upper
ranks of the Church.
Dave once had kept Mike up for days on a case and when Dave left and
Mike had a chance, he put his face down on a desk in corner and slept.
Dave knew that Mike would try and get some sleep so Dave had Jeff
Baker (photographer) shoot about 50 photos of Mike sleeping so that
Dave could show everybody what mike was doing while Dave was
"working". This is one of thousands of tactics that Dave would use to
get people to work for days on end with no sleep. Dave showed these
photos on at least 10 occasions afterwards, even YEARS later!
6. My source said that there was a major power struggle between Marty
Rathbun and Michael Rinder for several years that DM encouraged/
manipulated to his advantage. DM allowed Rinder to win by RPF'ing
Marty and then planned to eventually RPF Rinder to get rid of his
biggest threat. The BBC PR Flap gave DM the "Why" he needed to
escalate action against Rinder, who was already on thin ice. One rumor
had Mike being retired back to his native Australia with a golden
parachute and a lifetime non-disclosure agreement.
No power struggle. More like no-power struggle. From 2000 on, Marty
appeared to be the one who had the internal power and Mike had the
external power. This quickly faded starting in 2004. Mike had botched
a case and failed to Dave that he (Dave) was going to be personally
depositioned in the Lisa McPherson case. This really pissed Dave off
and Dave literally found out the night before.
Mike was pretty much taken off a lot of the legal lines and only dealt
with the few big cases that needed his attention. Otherwise, he was a
guy who would crapped on and have to write event speeches with the
rest of the Int Execs that would eventually get rewritten by Dave a
few days before the event anyway.
Now, Marty was the gang bang sec check guy. He would use his new found
muscle and power from Dave to beat the internal lines and put out
fires. Other than that he did not do much and was pretty much
powerless in terms of doing anything without Dave's say so. Marty did
not get RPF'd. He blew. He actually blew right around the time "The
Room" was created. This was the predecessor to "the Hall" The
Conference room in the CMO INT trailer was where all of the WDC, CMO
INT and RTRC staff were delegated to sleeping every night for months.
They literally slept under their desks during the night and were not
allowed to leave the room for any reason during the day. Food was
brought to them and they were allowed to shower in the Gold Estates
garage at specific times each day.
After weeks of this, there was to be a big meeting after another big
flap had happened and Marty and some other RTC execs were going to be
added to "the room." Marty never showed up and the meeting was
cancelled. The new flap was tracking down Marty. He turned up and was
recovered to Florida as he REFUSED to return to the Int Base. His
cancer flared up again and he died. He had put off handling his cancer
for years with all of the legal battles, and could not go off and
"handle his body." Well after he left, he died without the daily
torture of Dave. Karma.
Mike is not in Australia and he has no such agreement. I don't think
Dave knows what the hell he is supposed to do with Mike. Mike is a
delicate situation for Dave. Dave does not want to piss off Mike as
Dave has lost control over him. Mike does not want to piss off Dave as
he wants he wife and kid back. Who knows, maybe Mike and I will co-
write some posts until we get our relatives turned over to us.
6A. DM has not formally purged Rinder from CoS or the internet:
http://www.scientology.org/en_US/news-media/biographies/rinder.html
This is the one area that Dave REALLY sucks ass on. The Internet. He
had always relegated this area to others. Now it has come to kick his
ass. Anyone who knows enough about how to do stuff on the internet is
not going to go along with any plans from scientology. They have to
rely on their own to deal with Internet items and the ONLY people who
can do that are staff members in the SO that are OT 3 or higher.
There are not that many staff that fall into this category. Any these
staff do not know shit about the internet or how to do anything to
stop the floods of posts. We could thin the ranks even more by posting
higher than ot 3 materials and then nobody would be able to deal with
the internet postings. That would totally shut them down.
7. Tommy Davis is out of favor with DM for now. He is on an amends
project of some sort.
The word on the street is that Tommy Davis in on the Flag RPF or a
private celebrity version of it where you only get to be seen by a few
people as possible.
8. Hot Rumor Lines: The Super Power Building project has been pushed
out indefinitely. Capt. Debbie Cook had 200 auditors assigned to her
for what was expected to be a 2008 opening, but many of those have
been reassigned to the new Freewinds Basics auditing courses. Word is
that you are now a nobody in CoS until you have done the Basics
onboard ship. There are supposedly "unaltered" Dianetics-era processes
in place that almost no contemporary Scientologist has even heard of
or been run on.
Super Power Building will not be released/opened until:
1. The rundown itself is completed. It has been being piloted for the
last 20 years to no result. Not until now has CST even perfected the
50 perceptics drills to a point where even Dave thinks that any result
will be gained by someone who does the drills. The past 20 years of
pilot data is useless. The past 20 years of pilot data has proved
worthless. 95% of the people who have done the "rundown" have blown,
been declared or RPF'd. Some stats this rundown has. The equipment
that the rundown requires is unsafe, prototype at best and not ready
to be installed, much less installed full time use at a facility where
morons that just got recruited off the street will be operating it.
The items that need to be installed are amusement park ride type
equipment that will require a boatload of permitting, testing and
approvals that will require some sort of explanation on why the hell
these items are being installed in a Church!
2. After all the above items get sorted out, the rundown has to be
codified. This will require it being delivered in its proper form and
environment by people who have done the rundown already. I love this
part. You have to have done the rundown to deliver it, but no one has
done it so who delivers it to you.
3. Now check sheets and course materials have to be drawn up for this
course and a delivery course to go along with it. These have to have
some sort of built in security mechanism so they do not end up on the
internet the day after the place opens. ( I give it a few weeks)
4. Now you have to crank an insane amount of auditors through all of
the Basics, the Golden Age of Tech, & Knowledge so that they can do
the new Super Power Rundown Course and Delivery Course.
5. But wait there's more... You have to do the same above steps for the
Cause Resurgence Rundown that gets delivered in the same building and
is actually the rundown that take up a HUGE amount of space. This is
known as the "running program" to most as you run around a pole full
time until you are literally exhausted to a point where you cannot run
another ounce. You rest for a few minutes and then you start this
again for weeks on end. You can only do this program for a minimum of
5 hours per day and 8-10 hours is recommended. This regimen would kick
Jack LaLanne's ass. How they are going to get people through a
doctor's approval to do this is a joke in itself. Most Int base staff
who did this program (has been being piloted there for last 20 years)
went through several pairs of shoes, entire feet blistered to shreds,
ankle problems, feet problems, leg injuries, extreme weight loss, heat
exhaustion (hmmmm, might have to do with desert location???) and
countless amount of bullshit that your average Joe Q public person
would not put up with for one day much less weeks or months. Good news
is there are NO pre-requisites for this besides the Purif and besides
a insane medical waiver and a signed will and testament, you could be
ready to start as soon as they open.
6. When all of the above items are sorted out and only then, will the
building be completed. Dave has been stalling construction of the
building for years as not one single person is working on getting any
of these items done. The course and all of the items were meant to be
done over 10 years ago. The building was being fast tracked so that
they two would coincide and everything would be released. Now that the
courses are hopelessly stalled out, he has ordered that the building
be stopped as that can always be attributed to money and therefore
more money can be mined from the Scientologists until they sort out
the Courses. When the courses get completed, that building will be
completed in a few months from wherever it is at that point.
7. Of course by the time all of this has been sorted out, they will
have to get all new people for the building as the ones they have
recruited 10 times over have blown, routed out, been declared, gone
out 2D, been put onto other projects etc.
8A. My source told me that the Basics are intended to follow the early
and successful growth pattern LRH used where he had Dianeticists run
easy processes on their friends and family. This will supposedly be
the new way to field dissem. There will be a move away from discussing
LRH at all. Focus will be on "Tools for Living" and "Stress Free
Living."
This is just PR spin from Dave. Every time one of these releases
happen, he sits in his "listening room" up in Building 50 for a few
hours and comes up with some nifty marketing angle and then floats it
around to people and adds to it until it sounds like something the
average brainwashed Scieno will go for.
8B. The basic E-Meter stress test, unchanged since 1972, is allegedly
being reworked because COB has decided that too many people have used
psych drugs and that field testers therefore not getting good reads.
There is supposedly some T/A adjustment to compensate. COB supposedly
blames psych drugs, the internet, and the worst global suppression
ever for a slump in new members in the 15-30 year bracket.
The whole entire Bridge has been reworked by Dave Miscavige, why leave
out the E-Meter Stress test.
Until next time...
BFG
Michael Pattinson
wrote:
******************
I read this posting and was very impressed indeed with the content and
frankness from BFG.
It is amazing to have such detailed insider information as to DM and
Gold etc.
I am very grateful, frankly, to BFG for his courage and integrity.
One thing I really wonder is if BFG has any info about my court case,
which did directly involve DM.
The strategy used against me and my attorney was to bankrupt both of
us so we could not pursue the litigation, amongst deluges of other
over-kill mis-litigation activities, which were all serious abuses of
Justice; but that is a hallmark of DM and his mob, isn't it?
I would love to hear any info on that from BFG.
In the meantime, I wish BFG all the best.
Michael Pattinson
OT8
SP7
mpattinson AT gmail.com
Mark Bunker
"chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1190259006.3...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
At least Rinder can turn to two people who will understand his plight...Bob
and Stacy.
Eldon
wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/2zr2wd
>
> This above link is the beginning of absolute THE most huge amount of
> new info. Must reading to stay on top of all the latest leaks.
>
> Here's blownforgood's one long answer within the whole thread.
>
of the paranoid micromanagement DM feels compelled to do. Sounds like
he is somewhat less structured than LRH despite having superior
technology.
He has major problems on his hands, I think. He can "handle" Rider to
a certain extent by keeping his wife and kid hostage or by whatever
means. Tom Cruise and Tommy Davis are different. Both have significant
contact with the outside world, so he can't push them very far. Surely
each of them has a sneaking suspicion that following standard PR tech
has made them look like silly little Nazis.
Next time around, maybe they can line up Tommy Davis with Matt Lauer,
and Tommy Cruise with John Sweeney, and try it with that combination
of media handling opterms.
Or maybe DM would like to go jump on Oprah's couch himself, exclaiming
about how Scientology fixed his life. ;-) What a sorry, sick little
dwarf he is -- and only reaching early middle age at that. If he holds
for out another five years, he'll really be a mess.
Hartley Patterson
> He has major problems on his hands, I think. He can "handle" Rider to
> a certain extent by keeping his wife and kid hostage or by whatever
> means. Tom Cruise and Tommy Davis are different. Both have significant
> contact with the outside world, so he can't push them very far. Surely
> each of them has a sneaking suspicion that following standard PR tech
> has made them look like silly little Nazis.
Using Hollywood stars as spokespersons was always a Bridge Too Far.
Hubbard was right about cultivating them and using them as billboards, but
I'll but he would never have allowed them to have any knowledge about the
organisation or to speak on its behalf. They would have remained public.
--
Hartley Patterson
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk
http://news-from-bree.blogspot.com
Android Cat
> Eldo...@aol.com:
>> He has major problems on his hands, I think. He can "handle" Rider to
>> a certain extent by keeping his wife and kid hostage or by whatever
>> means. Tom Cruise and Tommy Davis are different. Both have
>> significant contact with the outside world, so he can't push them
>> very far. Surely each of them has a sneaking suspicion that
>> following standard PR tech has made them look like silly little
>> Nazis.
>
> Using Hollywood stars as spokespersons was always a Bridge Too Far.
>
> Hubbard was right about cultivating them and using them as
> billboards, but I'll but he would never have allowed them to have any
> knowledge about the organisation or to speak on its behalf. They
> would have remained public.
Does anyone want to make a bet that Davie Miscavige broke policy and made
Tom Cruise a "real" Sea Org, and not just the honorary rank which is the
most that a "very Special people" celebrity is supposed to receive?
http://www.xenu.net/archive/celebrities/19730509-fo3323_celebrities_and_the_sea_organization.png
(I'm sure that ex-members who were Sea Org are gritting their teeth over the
very thought.)
--
Ron of that ilk.
Scientology news archive links:
http://home.primus.ca/~ronsharp/frontcite.html
roger gonnet
news:1190259006.3...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
indeed, I saw him, he was not very satisfied, but could probably not decide
what to do since he had himself transferred the DM's insane orders of
bullbaiting!
>
> DM blamed Rinder for the flap. He always has to put a face on the
> flaps. But, Tom Cruise considers himself on the same level as Dave and
> knows about the SP situation at the Int base and about several
> executives there being declared SPs for the past few years, etc.
>
> Dave once said that if he could, he would make Tom Cruise "IG" of the
> Church. Tom might have even said WTF? To Dave and how could he let
> this happen. You can bet that Tom told Dave that this better not fuck
> over his movie and that the money Tom makes from the movies is what is
> paying for the new orgs being bought and renovated.
Tom is so hardcore that he poses a threat to Dave. He could publicly
> denounce Dave and then Dave would have a real big problem on his hand.
> Tom could also walk away and Dave would have an equally big problem on
> his hands. Dave has a very delicate situation with Tom Cruise now.
So, as I wrote it many times in frnech or in engish on newsgroups, Tom is a
dishonest little scientology Oberstrumpfbahnfรผhrer who can't possibly ignore
the bad situations of scientology, not only because he is speaking with tons
of non-scios, but also, because he has access to the most important despote
of the cult.
If DM would name him "IG", he would be overthrown and knows it, at least,
this is an evident hypothesis. But he can't either not "ack" cruise, since
Cruise paid probably tons of money to help the cult, apart of the ten
millions he gave to the IAS, and the many travels etc he did FOR the cult,
while DM remains in his stronghold at Hemet.
>
> They know who I am. They know where I live. They know I have so much
> insane data that they really would rather not be posted on the
> Internet. They know I have connection to a huge amount of their well
> know public. Yet, they have never once approached me in person and
> told me that they would handle the one thing that I have requested the
> turn over to me. They have attempted to blackmail my associates. They
> have attempted to have my associates blackmail me.
I fear they are unable to confront any of this because the dwarf KNOWS he'd
be beaten on this game. Like Hubbie, he's undergrounding everything
including mark VIIIs... or the Basics before he left them off...>
> Dave once had kept Mike up for days on a case and when Dave left and
> Mike had a chance, he put his face down on a desk in corner and slept.
> Dave knew that Mike would try and get some sleep so Dave had Jeff
> Baker (photographer) shoot about 50 photos of Mike sleeping so that
> Dave could show everybody what mike was doing while Dave was
> "working".
One more evidence, that not only the dwarf is insane, but he's also
pathetically "high" as a sociopath. He's doing actions that most of the
meanest kids would never invent!
This is one of thousands of tactics that Dave would use to
> get people to work for days on end with no sleep. Dave showed these
> photos on at least 10 occasions afterwards, even YEARS later!
>
>
> 6. My source said that there was a major power struggle between Marty
> Rathbun and Michael Rinder for several years that DM encouraged/
> manipulated to his advantage. DM allowed Rinder to win by RPF'ing
> Marty and then planned to eventually RPF Rinder to get rid of his
> biggest threat. The BBC PR Flap gave DM the "Why" he needed to
> escalate action against Rinder, who was already on thin ice. One rumor
> had Mike being retired back to his native Australia with a golden
> parachute and a lifetime non-disclosure agreement.
>
.../...
>
> After weeks of this, there was to be a big meeting after another big
> flap had happened and Marty and some other RTC execs were going to be
> added to "the room." Marty never showed up and the meeting was
> cancelled. The new flap was tracking down Marty. He turned up and was
> recovered to Florida as he REFUSED to return to the Int Base. His
> cancer flared up again and he died. He had put off handling his cancer
> for years with all of the legal battles, and could not go off and
> "handle his body." Well after he left, he died without the daily
> torture of Dave. Karma.
>
>
> Mike is not in Australia and he has no such agreement. I don't think
> Dave knows what the hell he is supposed to do with Mike. Mike is a
> delicate situation for Dave. Dave does not want to piss off Mike as
> Dave has lost control over him. Mike does not want to piss off Dave as
> he wants he wife and kid back. Who knows, maybe Mike and I will co-
> write some posts until we get our relatives turned over to us.
Methinks that since Dave is a depsote, and since that the last way for him
to exert some pressure on Rinder, he won't accept, unless Mike sees it
intelligently, I mean, goes directly to the IRS + FBI + CIA, and starts
telling so as to get his wife and kids out by some large raid on the many
areas where wife and kids could be.
>
> 7. Tommy Davis is out of favor with DM for now. He is on an amends
> project of some sort.
>
> The word on the street is that Tommy Davis in on the Flag RPF or a
> private celebrity version of it where you only get to be seen by a few
> people as possible.
no suprise. I wondered many times if the dwarf had tried some way to put TC
on an amend's project after the insanities he uttered here and there before
the press, launching the worse-ever seen campaign of exposition of the OT3
inane secrets!
>
> Super Power Building will not be released/opened until:
>
> 1. The rundown itself is completed. It has been being piloted for the
> last 20 years to no result.
Anyway, the dwarf tries to obtain results with an insan,e method, so... he
won't !
Not until now has CST even perfected the
> 50 perceptics drills to a point where even Dave thinks that any result
> will be gained by someone who does the drills.
stupid perceptic drills won't add a lot to people who are in good shape.
My own theory about a possibly correct definition of intelligence would be
that intelligence is quite similar/parallel to "ability to observe
[perceive]", so... it can't really be increased a lot except by some really
simple drills, and simple tools as ... eye glasses! One of the few good and
honest drill imagined by hubbard -- or someone else (??)-- was the obnosis
drill.
The past 20 years of
> pilot data is useless. The past 20 years of pilot data has proved
> worthless. 95% of the people who have done the "rundown" have blown,
> been declared or RPF'd.
hรฉhรฉ, great! shows a lot about super-levels and nonsense promises of results
from scientology since the very first definition of dianetics. It seems here
that the dwarf has understood at least that he couldNOT prove scientology as
being efficient for the OTs and super-power things, so... he has to slow
down as much as he can all the steps before, till the day the clients of the
cult DO leave, as - to quote one instance - the person presently selling
super expansive special meters (gold at $20000, emerald at $ 10000 etc)
...
r
R. Hill
wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/2zr2wd
>
> This above link is the beginning of absolute THE most huge amount of
> new info. Must reading to stay on top of all the latest leaks.
>
> Here's blownforgood's one long answer within the whole thread.
>
> There is a massive amount of historical vital INFO in this thread.
> About 20 minutes of reading in this thread.
>
> Posted: 19 Sep 2007 10:26 Post subject: The Rise of Rinder and
> Other Notes
> Subject description: OSA - Want to make a trade? I will take payment
> in the form of one direct relative!
>
<snip>
I have to say, unless I am misunderstanding, I find this part
unsettling. Negotiating silence on the ongoing wrongdoings within the
Church of Scientology, this is one more message that they can keep
doing wrong, as long as they keep using disconnection as a negotiation
token. I believe that if **everybody** would just talk freely, without
negotiating with the bullies in charge, they would lose all their
power of trying to keep people silent, and eventually, the loved one
would be able to come out anyway, while at the same time it would
prevent many others to join the rank of this totalitarian
organization.
Ray.
<snip>
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
> Using Hollywood stars as spokespersons was always a Bridge Too Far.
>
> Hubbard was right about cultivating them and using them as billboards, but
> I'll but he would never have allowed them to have any knowledge about the
> organisation or to speak on its behalf. They would have remained public.
>
> --
> Hartley Pattersonhttp://www.newsfrombree.co.ukhttp://news-from-bree.blogspot.com
Agreed. I think Hubbard would have lost DM long ago, and most ex
senior managers agree DM would have been busted long ago.
I think also Hubbard would have done something about making the OT
cosmology public knowledge and change the rules on its discussion.
I don't know how well Hubbard would have done to change things, but he
would have changed things.
He'd not have let happen what the followers have let happen. LRH had
mystical charm and he'd have attracted other replacements for the
church leadership and if he'd have written some other solutions, the
movement would have been pushed in different directions.
It depends on LRH's humility in changing away from his earlier
doctrinal mistakes.
It all comes back to Hubbard's lack of seeing the messes his rules
created.
He set it up so others are destined NOT to be allowed to change his
mess creating rules.
The pernicious attraction to Hubbard, Isaac Hayes and others have
always come along calling Hubbard Buddha-like, etc.
Hubbard I don't think wanted celebs to be anything involved with
strategic aspects of the movement's future other than raw promotions
posters.
Hubbard's mystical charm sells Scientology.
DM's not required to be a mystical charmer top leader role model.
I think the vacuum of charm has been sucked over to the celebs.
LRH's mystical charm the celebs deferred to.
Now the celebs have no competition to their innate celeb charm glow
human abilities, and it's run amock in the LRH mystical charm vacuum.
DM's not got a clue about things. I bet he wonders if LRH is coming
back to check up on him, and we'll see what happens as DM realizes
that the mystical stuff is BS, and LRH isn't coming back, etc, etc.
Hubbard's administrative doctrines give DM the power to be as tough
and unreasonable as he excels at.
It's a messy cult and it's Hubbard's fault, he wrote the prolific
doctrines that shackle the followers into their limited options.
The Scientology celebs have the charm attraction that LRH used to
have.
I think this is all complex group dynamics, the aspects of Scientology
that attract people and repel people.
I think the best is to get out as quick as people can get back to a
wider range of life options avaialble outside the Scientology/Hubbard
platform universe.
Chuck
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
> Hartley Patterson wrote:
> > EldonB...@aol.com:
> >> He has major problems on his hands, I think. He can "handle" Rider to
> >> a certain extent by keeping his wife and kid hostage or by whatever
> >> means. Tom Cruise and Tommy Davis are different. Both have
> >> significant contact with the outside world, so he can't push them
> >> very far. Surely each of them has a sneaking suspicion that
> >> following standard PR tech has made them look like silly little
> >> Nazis.
>
> > Using Hollywood stars as spokespersons was always a Bridge Too Far.
>
> > Hubbard was right about cultivating them and using them as
> > billboards, but I'll but he would never have allowed them to have any
> > knowledge about the organisation or to speak on its behalf. They
> > would have remained public.
>
> Does anyone want to make a bet that Davie Miscavige broke policy and made
> Tom Cruise a "real" Sea Org, and not just the honorary rank which is the
> most that a "very Special people" celebrity is supposed to receive?
>
>
> (I'm sure that ex-members who were Sea Org are gritting their teeth over the
> very thought.)
>
> --
> Ron of that ilk.
>
> - Show quoted text -
I wish a couple of the ex managers who don't look at ARS were here to
answrer this.
I think some would agree with you.
Because there are still some people, like Jeff Pomerantz, who got some
LRH positive comments, who wear that LRH acknowledgement like a badge
of honor that is untarnishable.
Tom's done way more than any other celeb for making Scientology known,
and Tom I know feels the lack of connection/appreciation, and I think
DM's acknowledgement of Tom for Tom's promotion duties, is as good as
it will get, in satisfaction return, since LRH wasn't around to give
Tom the acknowledgement.
It's all so interesting these elements of Scientology that provide all
level of followers some return satisfaction.
I think this is why the views of sociologists and psychologists about
what cults and religions provide to people, and also what cliques, and
the whole Hollywood environoment, the world of movers and shakers, the
whole human experience, how LRH's Scientology rules and limitations
give return satisfaction to people, it is all relevant, and I wish
psychologists who write about these things would someday tackle how
Scientology does what it does, in detail, for people in it.
Chuck Beatty
phil scott
wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/2zr2wd
>
> This above link is the beginning of absolute THE most huge amount of
> new info. Must reading to stay on top of all the latest leaks.
>
> Here's blownforgood's one long answer within the whole thread.
>
> There is a massive amount of historical vital INFO in this thread.
> About 20 minutes of reading in this thread.
>
> Posted: 19 Sep 2007 10:26 Post subject: The Rise of Rinder and
> Other Notes
> Subject description: OSA - Want to make a trade? I will take payment
> in the form of one direct relative!
>
Thanks, that was enlightening... these morons are self destructing at
light speed now, even as they manage to screw up the latest spin on
hubbies dogma... obviously someone doesnt get anything at all.... I
wonder how the high rollers like Dr Bryan Zwann are reacting to all
this.. they must be noticing that there are at leasts SOME little
problemo's/// no?
truly I must get on the horn and ask my friends at OSA SF what the
HELL is up with that. amazing. Too bad about Marty but thats how
it is with that sort of thang it gets em in the end.... if the new
releases had gone well then maybe there would have been a 1 percent
chance for scn to survive... with what can be seen here though it
looks like the chances now are even slimmer.
Note to OSA.. you and yer cult are in a condition of treason...
unless you recognise that you will not be able to work yourselves out
of the pit you are in... I told you and phatso himself that as far
back as 1982. a total waste of time apparently.
Regards,
Phil Scott
phil scott
hi michael.. the question one must ask is who is in a position to
coerce the courts in your case, Kieths, jerrys and many others.... it
sure as hell is not the janitor or blackmail on just one or two
officials across such a broad spectrum, I suggest you notice which
aliances virtually all of the cults leading attorneys have had and who
employed Mike Kobrin lo those many years...that should explain it.
Phil Scott
phil scott
> "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckbeatt...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1190259006.3...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/2zr2wd
>
> > This above link is the beginning of absolute THE most huge amount of
> > new info. Must reading to stay on top of all the latest leaks.
>
> > Here's blownforgood's one long answer within the whole thread.
>
> > There is a massive amount of historical vital INFO in this thread.
> > About 20 minutes of reading in this thread.
>
> > Posted: 19 Sep 2007 10:26 Post subject: The Rise of Rinder and
> > Other Notes
> > Subject description: OSA - Want to make a trade? I will take payment
> > in the form of one direct relative!
>
Hi Mark, how much longer before total implosion by your estimate? I
give it less than 2 years...I think we will see a few more of the high
profile figures fly the coop, that would do it.. then a larger exodus
of the remaining core, guys such as Dr Bryan Zwann, Roc Dong in
silicon valley and a few others... no results, as the brain wash
keeps wearing off more and more each day.
Phil Scott
phil scott
You give it 5 years maybe? dang that would be ugly to look at. Do
you think the two tommy's will still be around by then? Personally i
dont think so.. if Tommy C books it will be over at warp speed.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
phil scott
wrote:
> On Sep 20, 11:37?am, "Android Cat" <androidca...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hartley Patterson wrote:
> > > EldonB...@aol.com:
> > >> He has major problems on his hands, I think. He can "handle" Rider to
> > >> a certain extent by keeping his wife and kid hostage or by whatever
> > >> means. Tom Cruise and Tommy Davis are different. Both have
> > >> significant contact with the outside world, so he can't push them
> > >> very far. Surely each of them has a sneaking suspicion that
> > >> following standard PR tech has made them look like silly little
> > >> Nazis.
>
> > > Using Hollywood stars as spokespersons was always a Bridge Too Far.
>
> > > Hubbard was right about cultivating them and using them as
> > > billboards, but I'll but he would never have allowed them to have any
> > > knowledge about the organisation or to speak on its behalf. They
> > > would have remained public.
>
> > Does anyone want to make a bet that Davie Miscavige broke policy and made
> > Tom Cruise a "real" Sea Org, and not just the honorary rank which is the
> > most that a "very Special people" celebrity is supposed to receive?
>
> >http://www.xenu.net/archive/celebrities/19730509-fo3323_celebrities_a...
>
> > (I'm sure that ex-members who were Sea Org are gritting their teeth over the
> > very thought.)
>
> > --
> > Ron of that ilk.
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I wish a couple of the ex managers who don't look at ARS were here to
> answrer this.
>
> I think some would agree with you.
>
> Because there are still some people, like Jeff Pomerantz, who got some
> LRH positive comments, who wear that LRH acknowledgement like a badge
> of honor that is untarnishable.
>
> Tom's done way more than any other celeb for making Scientology known,
> and Tom I know feels the lack of connection/appreciation, and I think
> DM's acknowledgement of Tom for Tom's promotion duties, is as good as
> it will get, in satisfaction return, since LRH wasn't around to give
> Tom the acknowledgement.
>
> It's all so interesting these elements of Scientology that provide all
> level of followers some return satisfaction.
>
> I think this is why the views of sociologists and psychologists about
> what cults and religions provide to people, and also what cliques, and
> the whole Hollywood environoment, the world of movers and shakers, the
> whole human experience, how LRH's Scientology rules and limitations
> give return satisfaction to people, it is all relevant, and I wish
> psychologists who write about these things would someday tackle how
> Scientology does what it does, in detail, for people in it.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I know exactly how Hubbard did what he did. In a nutshell its like
this. You define a paradigm, that is a basis for looking at life,
hubbards cosmology for example and support it with fragments of
fact... these fragments then support the closed loop of the
cosmology. its mutually self supporting.
thus my remark that 'all dogma is true...within its own constructs'.
anything that is outside the fragments of fact or not supported by the
cosmology is then shown to be an 'exception'... leaving the dogma then
untouched. after all there are exceptions to everything
regardless.
then you polarize the situation with various measures to make
believers right and others wrong... this is a strong incentive for
many people... they have not been made right their entire lives...
Hubbard made them right for supporting his dogma.
further held in place by punishments and thought stopping tactics
such as keeping real busy and constant bombardment with the dogma and
penalties for straying... this drives believers to the polar position
from which they cannot even see the oposite argument or other
options.... the approach is common in many areas besides scn (politics
for example)... Hubbard was just the craziest and most outlandish we
have seen in a while.
Phil Scott
Tilman Hausherr
>2. A German Gov't Minister allegedly asked Tom Cruise directly why
>United Artists should be allowed to shoot Cruise's movie in Germany
>when CoS was suppressing free speech in America by harassing a BBC
>reporter. This triggered a round of phone calls between Cruise and
>DM.
>Sure Tom called DM. And DM immediately gave out lashings right
>afterwards. The call that went to Rinder was the last time Dave would
>talk to Rinder.
I doubt this. It doesn't make sense that a german government minister
(who?) would call lil' Tom personally, or even ask about the BBC
problems. While the BBC thing was reported in Germany, it was minor
news.
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5.55] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment
http://www.xenu.de
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html
The Xenu bookstore: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/bookstore.html
barb
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:30:06 -0700, "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
> <chuckb...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> 2. A German Gov't Minister allegedly asked Tom Cruise directly why
>> United Artists should be allowed to shoot Cruise's movie in Germany
>> when CoS was suppressing free speech in America by harassing a BBC
>> reporter. This triggered a round of phone calls between Cruise and
>> DM.
>> Sure Tom called DM. And DM immediately gave out lashings right
>> afterwards. The call that went to Rinder was the last time Dave would
>> talk to Rinder.
>
> I doubt this. It doesn't make sense that a german government minister
> (who?) would call lil' Tom personally, or even ask about the BBC
> problems. While the BBC thing was reported in Germany, it was minor
> news.
>
> Tilman
>
>
You know how they trot out the celebrities to impress minor regional
functionaries?
It was probably something like that. It doesn't say the minister phoned
him. He was probably introduced for a little palm-slapping photoplay,
and came out with the question directly to TC's face.
I bet TC would rather be squirted again than have to field hard
questions. Panorama did get a lot of coverage for that episode, you
know. And the Germans...well, I don't have to tell YOU they have a
certain interest in Scientology's antics.
--
barb "footbullets at home and abroad"
Chaplain, ARSCCwdne
buy my book!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1198812
read my page! (thanks, R. Hill!)
http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/graham1.html
Barbara Schwarz
wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/2zr2wd
>
> This above link is the beginning of absolute THE most huge amount of
> new info. Must reading to stay on top of all the latest leaks.
>
> Here's blownforgood's one long answer within the whole thread.
>
> There is a massive amount of historical vital INFO in this thread.
> About 20 minutes of reading in this thread.
>
> Posted: 19 Sep 2007 10:26 Post subject: The Rise of Rinder and
> Other Notes
> Subject description: OSA - Want to make a trade? I will take payment
> in the form of one direct relative!
>
> manipulated to his advantage. DM allowed Rinder to win by RPF'ingMartyand then planned to eventually RPF Rinder to get rid of his
> biggest threat. The BBC PR Flap gave DM the "Why" he needed to
> escalate action against Rinder, who was already on thin ice. One rumor
> had Mike being retired back to his native Australia with a golden
> parachute and a lifetime non-disclosure agreement.
>
> No power struggle. More like no-power struggle. From 2000 on,Marty
> appeared to be the one who had the internal power and Mike had the
> external power. This quickly faded starting in 2004. Mike had botched
> a case and failed to Dave that he (Dave) was going to be personally
> depositioned in the Lisa McPherson case. This really pissed Dave off
> and Dave literally found out the night before.
>
> Mike was pretty much taken off a lot of the legal lines and only dealt
> with the few big cases that needed his attention. Otherwise, he was a
> guy who would crapped on and have to write event speeches with the
> rest of the Int Execs that would eventually get rewritten by Dave a
> few days before the event anyway.
>
> muscle and power from Dave to beat the internal lines and put out
> fires. Other than that he did not do much and was pretty much
> powerless in terms of doing anything without Dave's say so.Martydid
> not get RPF'd. He blew. He actually blew right around the time "The
> Room" was created. This was the predecessor to "the Hall" The
> Conference room in the CMO INT trailer was where all of the WDC, CMO
> INT and RTRC staff were delegated to sleeping every night for months.
> They literally slept under their desks during the night and were not
> allowed to leave the room for any reason during the day. Food was
> brought to them and they were allowed to shower in the Gold Estates
> garage at specific times each day.
>
> After weeks of this, there was to be a big meeting after another big
> added to "the room."Martynever showed up and the meeting was
> cancelled. The new flap was tracking downMarty. He turned up and was
> recovered to Florida as he REFUSED to return to the Int Base. His
> cancer flared up again and he died. He had put off handling his cancer
> for years with all of the legal battles, and could not go off and
> "handle his body." Well after he left, he died without the daily
> torture of Dave. Karma.
Load of crap, lies and defamation. I claim that Blownforgood does not
exist and an anti-religious extremist sucks this garbage out of his
porn fingers...
Barbara Schwarz
knok_knok
wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/2zr2wd
>
> This above link is the beginning of absolute THE most huge amount of
> new info. Must reading to stay on top of all the latest leaks.
>
> Here's blownforgood's one long answer within the whole thread.
>
> There is a massive amount of historical vital INFO in this thread.
> About 20 minutes of reading in this thread.
>
> Posted: 19 Sep 2007 10:26 Post subject: The Rise of Rinder and
> Other Notes
> Subject description: OSA - Want to make a trade? I will take payment
> in the form of one direct relative!
>
>
> read more ยป
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