Anonymous does the E-meter's dirty little secret
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
this is a rendition of the E-meter pages
amazing
E-Meter Dirty Secrets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sDANzyOi4
This appears to be an Anonymous rendition of my E-meter Endorphin
theory based on the research of Bjorn Nordenstrom
Im totally blown away
This is gonna cost scientology a great deal of money..
And save a lot of lives.
At Scientology's highest secret levels you are essentially stripped of
any money you still have while being made physically ill and mentally
addicted by long exposure to the E-meter's electrical effects and
driven over the edge by an advanced deep trance induction technique,
that makes that the victim repetitively imagine something that is not
there....
http://www.lermanet.com/image/couch.jpg
tom cruise airborne jumping the couch
into a state where you are mentally or even physically unable to seek
justice for having been defrauded by Scientology's lies.
http://www.lermanet.com/huldaclark.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/e-metershort.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/endorphin-emeter.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/shock1.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/shock.htm
_________________
Who is Arnie Lerma?
Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
"He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
Ananamuss
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> holy cat fish batman
>
> this is a rendition of the E-meter pages
>
> amazing
>
>
> This appears to be an Anonymous rendition of my E-meter Endorphin
> theory based on the research of Bjorn Nordenstrom
>
> Im totally blown away
>
> This is gonna cost scientology a great deal of money..
>
> And save a lot of lives.
>
> At Scientology's highest secret levels you are essentially stripped of
> any money you still have while being made physically ill and mentally
> addicted by long exposure to the E-meter's electrical effects and
> driven over the edge by an advanced deep trance induction technique,
> that makes that the victim repetitively imagine something that is not
> there....
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/image/couch.jpg
> tom cruise airborne jumping the couch
>
> into a state where you are mentally or even physically unable to seek
> justice for having been defrauded by Scientology's lies.
>
> _________________
> Who is Arnie Lerma?
>
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
Also: Use liquid gloves to defeat the e-meter. Seriously.
anonymous...@googlemail.com
> On Feb 13, 8:28 pm, "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!"
>
>
>
>
>
> <ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > holy cat fish batman
>
> > this is a rendition of the E-meter pages
>
> > amazing
>
> > E-Meter Dirty Secretshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sDANzyOi4
>
> > This appears to be an Anonymous rendition of my E-meter Endorphin
> > theory based on the research of Bjorn Nordenstrom
>
> > Im totally blown away
>
> > This is gonna cost scientology a great deal of money..
>
> > And save a lot of lives.
>
> > At Scientology's highest secret levels you are essentially stripped of
> > any money you still have while being made physically ill and mentally
> > addicted by long exposure to the E-meter's electrical effects and
> > driven over the edge by an advanced deep trance induction technique,
> > that makes that the victim repetitively imagine something that is not
> > there....
>
> >http://www.lermanet.com/image/couch.jpg
> > tom cruise airborne jumping the couch
>
> > into a state where you are mentally or even physically unable to seek
> > justice for having been defrauded by Scientology's lies.
>
> > _________________
> > Who is Arnie Lerma?
>
> > Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
> > "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Shaking your leg under the table's supposed to help, too.
LaserClam
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> This appears to be an Anonymous rendition of my E-meter Endorphin
> theory based on the research of Bjorn Nordenstrom
> And save a lot of lives.
>
> At Scientology's highest secret levels you are essentially stripped of
> any money you still have while being made physically ill and mentally
> addicted by long exposure to the E-meter's electrical effects and
> driven over the edge by an advanced deep trance induction technique,
> that makes that the victim repetitively imagine something that is not
> there....
>
How would you help someone who
has dirty little secrets?
Skipper
<2c92297d-acbe-48e4...@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
LaserClam <Lase...@aol.com> wrote:
We'd come to your house and do an intervention to get you over your
brainwashed insanity.
Chip Gallo
Post the information in many places.
LaserClam
>
> We'd come to your house and do an intervention to get you over your
> brainwashed insanity.-
How would you help someone who is insane?
dptei...@gmail.com
Medication. And rainbows and puppies.
roger gonnet
news:9ffacd63-1032-488e...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
with some help, but not from a scam cult who's sequestrating its mùembers up
to death.
r
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> this is a rendition of the E-meter pages
>
> amazing
>
>
> This appears to be an Anonymous rendition of my E-meter Endorphin
> theory based on the research of Bjorn Nordenstrom
>
> Im totally blown away
>
> This is gonna cost scientology a great deal of money..
>
> And save a lot of lives.
>
> At Scientology's highest secret levels you are essentially stripped of
> any money you still have while being made physically ill and mentally
> addicted by long exposure to the E-meter's electrical effects and
> driven over the edge by an advanced deep trance induction technique,
> that makes that the victim repetitively imagine something that is not
> there....
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/image/couch.jpg
> tom cruise airborne jumping the couch
>
> into a state where you are mentally or even physically unable to seek
> justice for having been defrauded by Scientology's lies.
>
> _________________
> Who is Arnie Lerma?
>
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
It's snowballing.... because it's about truth. Keep up the good work
Arnie. Well done on the Video Anonymous!
barb
One ex suggested a pebble in the shoe also works.
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
I can haz Legion?
anothers...@hotmail.com
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> holy cat fish batman
>
> this is a rendition of the E-meter pages
>
> amazing
>
>
> This appears to be an Anonymous rendition of my E-meter Endorphin
> theory based on the research of Bjorn Nordenstrom
>
> Im totally blown away
>
> This is gonna cost scientology a great deal of money..
>
> And save a lot of lives.
>
Wow -- that is a provocative video.
I'm not sure the current goes through your entire body.
Also, is this claim really true?
"The amount of current you are zapped with during a so-called auditing
session is equivalent to the amount of current administered during a
session of electro-shock therapy in psychiatric treatment. Electro-
shock uses more current for a shorter period of time. "Auditing" uses
lower current but for a much longer period of time, resulting in the
same amount of electricity inflicted upon your body."
I could believe it might add up over a period of time. But in one
session?
I know there is plenty of anecdotal evidence regarding addiction to
auditing sessions (but whether it is physical or mental or both -- I'm
unsure).
I wish some clinical studies regarding the addiction theory could be
done specifcally on the e-meter. But then, do you know anyone who
would volunteer to participate? Heh...
Another Surfer
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
> On Feb 13, 6:28 pm, "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!"
>
>
>
> <ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > holy cat fish batman
>
> > this is a rendition of the E-meter pages
>
> > amazing
>
> > E-Meter Dirty Secretshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sDANzyOi4
>
> > This appears to be an Anonymous rendition of my E-meter Endorphin
> > theory based on the research of Bjorn Nordenstrom
>
> > Im totally blown away
>
> > This is gonna cost scientology a great deal of money..
>
> > And save a lot of lives.
>
> Wow -- that is a provocative video.
>
> I'm not sure the current goes through your entire body.
that revelation is what I describe as The Bjorn Nordenstrom
Realization...
read up on Bjorn Nordenstrom..
>
> Also, is this claim really true?
>
> "The amount of current you are zapped with during a so-called auditing
> session is equivalent to the amount of current administered during a
> session of electro-shock therapy in psychiatric treatment. Electro-
the raw calculations are here
http://www.lermanet.com/shock.htm
I determined that yes there is equivalency between a 2.5 or 3 hours
dose
at 80 uAmps from an E-meter and one of the normal series of three
shocks of
an ECT treatment
The irony will break your irony meter,
considering scientology's call to destroy psychiatrists..
> shock uses more current for a shorter period of time. "Auditing" uses
> lower current but for a much longer period of time, resulting in the
> same amount of electricity inflicted upon your body."
>
> I could believe it might add up over a period of time. But in one
> session?
check the numbers.. it was VERY difficult getting the figures for
ECT..
as it is rarely used these days, now that we have prozac and celexa
even clinicians did not know the net resistance of a human head..
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
When I was IN sea org, I debugged th E-meter production line at Delta
Meter,
Tory Christman was the red hot blonde with great legs, in white hot
pants at the reception desk...
while I was being a wirehead in the back.
25 years later, this started out as calculation on the back of a
napkin
and just kept going...
ive had that stuff on the net for almost a decade,
and many have said they dont understand it,
but no one has corrected my math or showed me
an erroneous assumption in the calculations.
Many have dismissed it,
but Im used to folks not understanding technical issues.
Ive been an electronics tech all my life, When a client asks me
"what was wrong" I enjoy telling them,
"If you understand my answer you could have fixed it yourself..
The values I chose were intentionally conservative,
considering the degree of apparent controversy, if I erred
I wanted to err on the side up underestimating it..
It may be far worse than *I* even think..
ya know?
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
>
>
>
>
> I know there is plenty of anecdotal evidence regarding addiction to
> auditing sessions (but whether it is physical or mental or both -- I'm
> unsure).
>
BOTH, hypnosis AND endorphns, it is NOT just endorphins...
endorphins are, however,
the subliminal smoking gun in the mind of scientologists, the piece of
the ufo, the evidence,
that convinces them that Scientology WORKS
> Another Surfer
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
>
>
>
> <ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > holy cat fish batman
>
> > this is a rendition of the E-meter pages
>
> > amazing
I was totally blown away that whomever anonymous is understood my
pages about it. My estimation of the intellect behind this movement
has increased beyond description.
Two years ago I initiated with cooperation of the family, an
intervention, and after 4 days the director of personnel of san
francisco org, was OUT, this handsome young man, was their star
recruiter! How many lives did we save by getting him out? HE was very
smart and very good at what he did. The E-meter data is my mental
crowbar when dealing with a true believer.
This information is the most powerful tool I have in my arsenal for
deprogramming a scientologist.
It gives them an explanation that relieves them of feelings of
inadequacy and stupidity for being tricked by a con man. The ever so
slight endorphin effect is the subliminal PROOF that creates a
lifelong scientologist.
This material is why scientologists know in the core of their being,
in their hearts and soul, that despite everything that we tell them
scientology does that is bad, they must continue to support it,
because Scientology WORKS!
Electricity has WORKED since 154 AD.. when scribonius largus placed a
man with leg pain, his feet, upon an electric eel, in a pit of water
at the beach.. after he was repeatedly shocked by that eel.. his pain
symptoms were greatly reduced...
Electricity works!
repeat: this is the single most powerful tool I have for waking up a
recovering scientologist and returning them to our merely human race
from the scientology race of wannabe ubermensch.
USE IT
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
> "LaserClam" <LaserC...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message denews:9ffacd63-1032-488e...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 13, 10:01 pm, Skipper <dadwri...@gmail.not> wrote:
>
>
>
> > We'd come to your house and do an intervention to get you over your
> > brainwashed insanity.-
>
> How would you help someone who is insane?
>
> with some help, but not from a scam cult who's sequestrating its mùembers up
> to death.
>
> r
man, I lofted this one on altreligionscientology newsgroup ten years
ago and have been repeatedly attacked for it, by a certain band of
selfstyled uber-critic that likes a certain irc channel...that has
religion in its name.. and who like to defend a bad movie they have
never seen.
There once was a doctor that called me after the raid and lawsuit was
in the Washington Post. He told me of his unfortunate experiences with
a greedy scientology chiropractor...I told him he was right to leave
the practice. He brought me a book one day, and said, Arnie, I tried
to read this and its got too much electronics in it, can you? Would
you read it for me and explain what this man is going on about?
That was Bjorn E. W. Nordenstrom's Biologically Closed Electric
Circuits. It was dense reading, somewhat ebcause the author's native
language was not english, and it was a mishmash of medical terminology
mixed with electronic terminology. It took me considerable time, but
when i got about 2/3rds through it, It dawned upon me what this one
time Nobel prize Commitee JUDGE was going on about.
He was trying to get across the fact that the body is not an amorphous
substance... a wet pile of tissue... that conducts electricity equally
in every direction..
That each individual structure in the body is electrically insulated
from its adjacent structures.
I found this concept logical as well as mind blowing.
Dr Nordenstrom was/is a radiologist. His discovery started with a
faint circle This faint circle was associated with localized tumors of
this type. visible around localized tumors in the lung tissue of a
dog.
"everyone"considered them as 'an artifact' Bjorn was not so sure. He
then sliced the tissue and examined it under an electron microscope..
the area with the faint halo.. about 1 cm radius around a 1 cm tumor.
and what he found blew his mind and mine after I waded through his
dense jargon
He found tiny crystals of magnesium-calcium complexes called
"apatites" the same material as is in your teeth..
He then thought, ok so we have this deposit, spherical... what is this
tumor doing, or what is the body doing.. that is causing calcium and
magnesium to precipitate out of the surrounding tissues...in this
manner.
What he saw reminded him of deposits he has seen in electrophoresus.
He found that some tumors were using electric warfare to evade
detection by the bodys immune system.
He found a slight mV voltage gradient...around these tumors.. . It was
an electrically created phenomena.
He inserted fine wires and gently cancelled out the self induced
currents, and then the immune cells were able to find their targets
again, and the tumors began to disappear,
Western Medicine.. with its penchant for expensive patentable one shot
cures chose to ignore what this giant of science discovered.
I had no choice but to heed his counsel in my war with scientology, On
the same side, that electricity does NOTHING to the body, as
scientology, are power generation companies (transmission lines), cell
phone operators, appliance makers. so many would profit if I lose this
argument, or can be made to appear kooky because I understand enough
to know there IS something of merit here..
So it was a cancer tumor that taught Bjorn Nordenstrom, that
structures in the body are insulated from each other.
from:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_v7/ai_5083812
n 1983 Nordenstrom published a 358-page book covering more than two
decades of experimental work. It's entitled Biologically Closed
Electric Circuits: Clinical, Ex- perimental, and Theoretical Evidence
for an Additional Circulatory Sytem, and it's potentially
revolutionary. Nordenstrom claims to have discovered a heretofore
unknown universe of electrical activity in the human body--the
biological equivalent of electric circuits.
As Nordenstrom describes his body electric, the circuits are switched
on by an injury, an infection, or a tumor, or even by the normal
activity of the body's organs; voltages build and fluctuate; electric
currents course through arteries and veins and across capillary walls,
drawing white blood cells and metabolic compounds into and out of
surrounding tissues. This electrical system, says Nordenstrom, works
to balance the activity of internal organs and, in the case of
injuries, represents the very foundation of the healing process. In
his view, it's as critical to the well-being of the human body as the
flow of blood. Disturbances in this electrical network, he suggests,
may be involved in the development of cancer and other diseases.
The idea that electric currents can stimulate bodily repair, alert
defense mechanisms, and control the growth and function of cells is
not a new one in medicine. Bioelectromagnetics dates back at least 200
years. But the field picked up a dubious reputation at the turn of the
century, when researchers who had proposed electromagnetism as a
panacea were proved wrong, and the stigma has lingered ever since.
Enter Nordenstrom. His book is neither an esoteric piece of theorizing
nor the result of a single isolated experiment. He backs up his
statements, theories, and conclusions with a wealth of meticulous and
ingenious experiments, with one clinical observation after another,
with theoretical proofs, and with known facts. He makes a strong case,
and, at least as far as he's concerned, he has proved it.
Nordenstrom doesn't spare his medical colleagues from the jab ofhis
needles. To him their attitude toward electricity in the human body is
almost medieval. Knowing of the ''enormous importance of closed
electric circuits in modern electronic technology,'' asks Nordenstrom
in the conclusion of his book, ''is it seriously plausible that
biology can 'afford to ignore' the exceedingly efficient principle of
transporting electric energy over closed circuits?''
Out_Of_The_Dark
Joe Grice, you of all posters here know much more about about the
fundamentals of sound waves via electrical radios, so why the heck are
you not LOOKING at the information critically instead of ignoring it.
You have a mind that enjoys looking at how things work. Go and watch
the video, then go read up on the information that Arnie has posted.
You wee fooled into thinking that when you read the OT III materials
on the net, that it would make you sick. You posted that, and that you
got messed up from it. Thats part of the deception of scientology, to
trick people into believing things will result. Well, the e meter does
this by use of electricity when a pc is on the cans being given
carefully crafted commands. What they hear and what is going through
them via the cans is a bouble whammy to the mind. Take your interests
and expand them and think for yourself with all the facts.
banchukita
With professional help. How would Scientology help someone who is
insane?
Rasta Robert
> On Feb 13, 6:28 pm, "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!"
><ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> holy cat fish batman
>>
>> this is a rendition of the E-meter pages
>>
>> amazing
>>
>> E-Meter Dirty Secretshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sDANzyOi4
>>
>> This appears to be an Anonymous rendition of my E-meter Endorphin
>> theory based on the research of Bjorn Nordenstrom
>>
>> Im totally blown away
>>
>> This is gonna cost scientology a great deal of money..
>>
>> And save a lot of lives.
>>
>
> Wow -- that is a provocative video.
>
> I'm not sure the current goes through your entire body.
>
> Also, is this claim really true?
>
Personally I believe it is almost as much pseudo-science
and/or hypothetical as what scientology appears to believe
about the e-meter (which is simply a Wheatstone bridge
circuit, an undampened analog coil meter movement with soup
can electrodes to hold in the hands). It doesn't actually measure
anything, but once set in balance will show a movement of the
needle/pointer when the electric resistance between the cans/electrodes
changes, so it merely indicates changes in galvanic skin resistance,
no real measurements of anything, it's design makes that impossible.
If the trickle DC of the e-meter would stimulate productions of
endorphins/enfekalines or other specific neurotransmitters, holding
a AA battery so one hand/finger touches the + and the other hand the -
contact would also give a high. As far as I know it is possible to
create a anaestetic effect of brainwave entrainment only pulsed and
AC currents are used/effective, not DC current.
I'm pretty much inconvinced by the 'endorphin hypothesis' as yet.
> "The amount of current you are zapped with during a so-called auditing
> session is equivalent to the amount of current administered during a
> session of electro-shock therapy in psychiatric treatment. Electro-
> shock uses more current for a shorter period of time. "Auditing" uses
> lower current but for a much longer period of time, resulting in the
> same amount of electricity inflicted upon your body."
>
> I could believe it might add up over a period of time. But in one
> session?
ECT is also not DC but a pulsed current.
> I know there is plenty of anecdotal evidence regarding addiction to
> auditing sessions (but whether it is physical or mental or both -- I'm
> unsure).
More likely to be a psychological dependence on the (pseudo) therapy
and light hypnotical trance that is being induced, than due to the
low voltage DC trickle current.
> I wish some clinical studies regarding the addiction theory could be
> done specifcally on the e-meter. But then, do you know anyone who
> would volunteer to participate? Heh...
>
> Another Surfer
--
<http://rr.www.cistron.nl/> -!- <http://www.rr.dds.nl/>
<http://www.dread.demon.nl/>
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
tie her to bed and force feed her hubbard's receipes for psychosis
with a turkey baster until she was dead 17 days later?
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/washingtonpost/lisa-120698.htm
The LIFE & DEATH of a SCIENTOLOGIST
After 13 Years and Thousands Of Dollars, Lisa McPherson Finally Went
'Clear.' Then She Went Insane.
By Richard Leiby
The Badger
confession, affirmation of place within the group, and coming to the
realization (with "empirical certainty," 'cause that meter thingie has
gots gages and stuff) that the fucked-up things about your life are not
your fault.
The idea of current addition (when you don't have a wire plugged into
the hypothalamus or some such), or even a consistent effect between
persons undergoing auditing is kind of strange, mostly because
electrical impulses are happening all over and around the body in modern
society - both of natural origin, and not so; I suspect 9v batteries
would be controlled substances otherwise.
Also, the idea of an equivalence between ECT and auditing on an
electrical level is... unique. For example, an 18 gague wire will be
able to handle a low volt/amp current indefinitely, but will vaporize
if you try and pump a year's worth of that current through it in one go.
Speed of delivery makes just as much of a difference as total quantity.
LaserClam
> You wee fooled into thinking that when you read the OT III materials
> on the net, that it would make you sick. You posted that, and that you
> got messed up from it. Thats part of the deception of scientology, to
> trick people into believing things will result. Well, the e meter does
> this by use of electricity when a pc is on the cans being given
> carefully crafted commands. What they hear and what is going through
> them via the cans is a bouble whammy to the mind. Take your interests
> and expand them and think for yourself with all the facts.
Why don't you look up in the dictionary
the words you don't understand before
you try using them in sentences?
Out_Of_The_Dark
Coward
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
wrote:
> On 2008-02-14, <anothersurfer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 13, 6:28 pm, "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!"
> ><ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> holy cat fish batman
>
> a AA battery so one hand/finger touches the + and the other hand the -
> contact would also give a high. As far as I know it is possible to
> create a anaestetic effect of brainwave entrainment only pulsed and
> AC currents are used/effective, not DC current.
right, only AC, because DC is known to be detrimental to health
American Academy of Pain Management
"Pomerantz (1981) has also shown by naloxone blocking studies that
endorphins are only released at PRR settings of 8 Hertz or less."
Daniel L. Kirsch, Ph.D. Fred N. Lerner, Ph.D.
8 hz or less... DC, being 0 hz, is as less as you can get!!
http://www.lermanet.com/shock1.htm
Jonathon Barbera
He could say the same about you and the dictionary!
Love,
-- Jonathon
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 1:07 pm, Rasta Robert <r...@dds.nl.ReMoVe_ThIs.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > On 2008-02-14, <anothersurfer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 13, 6:28 pm, "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!"
> > ><ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >> holy cat fish batman
>
> > a AA battery so one hand/finger touches the + and the other hand the -
> > contact would also give a high. As far as I know it is possible to
> > create a anaestetic effect of brainwave entrainment only pulsed and
> > AC currents are used/effective, not DC current.
>
> right, only AC, because DC is known to be detrimental to health
> American Academy of Pain Management
> "Pomerantz (1981) has also shown by naloxone blocking studies that
> endorphins are only released at PRR settings of 8 Hertz or less."
> Daniel L. Kirsch, Ph.D. Fred N. Lerner, Ph.D.
>
> 8 hz or less... DC, being 0 hz, is as less as you can get!!
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/shock1.htm
so if its is say 1 unit of endorphns released at 8 hz.
then perhaps there is more at 4 hz?
and still more at ZERO hertz?
enlightened10056
"Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!" <ale...@verizon.net>
wrote in message
news:822c8182-019f-44ed...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
I know that the one time that I audited a topic, I realized and also told
the auditor, that I had this almost exhilarated feeling at the end of the
auditing session. This was distinctly different from the times that I had
previously recalled, thought about and mused over that very same topic.
Therefore, the auditing with the emeter must have been the thing that caused
that exhilarated feeling. I told this to the auditor. The auditor was
convinced of course that it was the auditing tech that was the reason for
this win. That to me did not make sense, because I had come to the very same
conclusion about the topic when I thought about it previously. Therefore,
the auditing tech had taken me to the same exact conclusion but, the feeling
of exhilaration was new, and to me, that had come from the emeter. I felt as
though my emotions had been detached from my rational thinking. That
introduction to auditing was the first and last time I had any auditing. I
did not learn anything new about the topic and something was really strange
about getting that feeling of exhilaration, especially when the feeling of
exhilaration was not warranted over the discussion of the topic.
Susan
>
>
>> Another Surfer
>
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 1:07 pm, Rasta Robert <r...@dds.nl.ReMoVe_ThIs.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > On 2008-02-14, <anothersurfer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 13, 6:28 pm, "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!"
> > ><ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >> holy cat fish batman
>
> > a AA battery so one hand/finger touches the + and the other hand the -
> > contact would also give a high. As far as I know it is possible to
> > create a anaestetic effect of brainwave entrainment only pulsed and
> > AC currents are used/effective, not DC current.
>
> right, only AC, because DC is known to be detrimental to health
> American Academy of Pain Management
> "Pomerantz (1981) has also shown by naloxone blocking studies that
> endorphins are only released at PRR settings of 8 Hertz or less."
> Daniel L. Kirsch, Ph.D. Fred N. Lerner, Ph.D.
>
> 8 hz or less... DC, being 0 hz, is as less as you can get!!
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/shock1.htm
helpful FDA links
www.fda.gov/ora/fed_state/DFSR_Activities/health_fraud_directory.htm
eddieVroom
> You wee fooled into thinking that when you read the OT III materials
> on the net, that it would make you sick. You posted that, and that you
> got messed up from it. Thats part of the deception of scientology, to
Could some of the members actually manifest a post-hypnotic suggestion
to become ill if exposed to OTIII? Perhaps compassion would move us to
put the Xenu stuff aside and focus on the Crimes and Inhumanities of RTC
et all. The rank-and-file members have been damaged enough already.
--
the Tortured Spark - a Light in the Dark
the Mystical RevvedErrand Doktor eddieVroom
Northern Lights Motor Lodge
Knights of the Visible Wank-L
http://psyop13013.blogspot.com/
He only comes out when I drink my Djinn...
Rev Dennis L Erlich
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
>holy cat fish batman
>this is a rendition of the E-meter pages
>amazing
>E-Meter Dirty Secrets
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sDANzyOi4
OMG! I pray this isn't actually the nonys who are promoting this
crap.
>This appears to be an Anonymous rendition of my E-meter Endorphin
>theory based on the research of Bjorn Nordenstrom
Anyone with half a brain can easily prove that this endorphin theory
is bullshit. Just sit down quietly holding the cans of an emeter for
an hour and see if it gets you high.
Anything this easily disproved is clearly crap-trap.
>Im totally blown away
He musta been holding the cans when he wrote this.
>This is gonna cost scientology a great deal of money..
Yah, it doesn't matter that is toadly pulled outta lerm's ass. As
long as it hurts the cult, it doesn't have to be true.
>And save a lot of lives.
>At Scientology's highest secret levels you are essentially stripped of
>any money you still have while being made physically ill and mentally
>addicted by long exposure to the E-meter's electrical effects and
>driven over the edge by an advanced deep trance induction technique,
>that makes that the victim repetitively imagine something that is not
>there....
Geeze, feed this crap to the noobs, and maybe they will buy into it.
As if there isn't enough real cause for criticism, lerm has to invent
shit like this.
>http://www.lermanet.com/image/couch.jpg
>tom cruise airborne jumping the couch
>into a state where you are mentally or even physically unable to seek
>justice for having been defrauded by Scientology's lies.
d'lerm is mentally unable to distinguish between his bushit and
reality.
>Who is Arnie Lerma?
He's a deluded criti-cultists who leads people away from what is true
into the zone where even if it's bushit, as long as it casts the cult
in bad light, it's good criticism.
All critics good? Feh!
Dennis
----------------
"But you see that line there
moving through the station?
I told you, I told you, told you,
I was one of those" - L Cohen
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>I suspect there is less addictive about electricity than there is about
>confession, affirmation of place within the group, and coming to the
>realization (with "empirical certainty," 'cause that meter thingie has
>gots gages and stuff) that the fucked-up things about your life are not
>your fault.
IOW, it's all placebo effect.
>The idea of current addition (when you don't have a wire plugged into
>the hypothalamus or some such), or even a consistent effect between
>persons undergoing auditing is kind of strange, mostly because
>electrical impulses are happening all over and around the body in modern
>society - both of natural origin, and not so; I suspect 9v batteries
>would be controlled substances otherwise.
Hey, call it bushit, cause that's what it is.
>Also, the idea of an equivalence between ECT and auditing on an
>electrical level is... unique.
Uniquely deluded, yes.
>For example, an 18 gague wire will be
>able to handle a low volt/amp current indefinitely, but will vaporize
>if you try and pump a year's worth of that current through it in one go.
>
>Speed of delivery makes just as much of a difference as total quantity.
Of course.
D
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>ive had that stuff on the net for almost a decade,
>and many have said they dont understand it,
>but no one has corrected my math or showed me
>an erroneous assumption in the calculations.
It doesn't take calculation. It can easily be disproved by anyone who
has had auditing or simply hold the cans for an hour and see if it
gets you high.
>Many have dismissed it,
>but Im used to folks not understanding technical issues.
The technical issues are irrelevant. A simple test shows it to be
bushit.
>Ive been an electronics tech all my life, When a client asks me
>"what was wrong" I enjoy telling them,
>"If you understand my answer you could have fixed it yourself..
>
>The values I chose were intentionally conservative,
>considering the degree of apparent controversy, if I erred
>I wanted to err on the side up underestimating it..
Toadly incoherent babble.
>It may be far worse than *I* even think..
>ya know?
Yah I know. He's further gone than I thought.
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>I was totally blown away that whomever anonymous is understood my
>pages about it.
I can't fathom how people can buy into his bs.
>My estimation of the intellect behind this movement
>has increased beyond description.
If it was really the nonys who did that video, I am sadly disappointed
in their ability to reason.
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>More likely to be a psychological dependence on the (pseudo) therapy
>and light hypnotical trance that is being induced, than due to the
>low voltage DC trickle current.
If you have any doubts, hold the cans for an hour and see how high you
get.
Jeeze.
D
Out_Of_The_Dark
Keep it up. You just prove over and over again just who you are here
on behalf of.
Out_Of_The_Dark
More cult propaganda from the Rev. Dennis Erlich, Minister of the
Church of Scientology
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
All it needs is to do is have any contributory effect, even
subliminal..
and you arn't arguing with me dennis, you are now arguing with
science,
I don't care whether you care to understand it, I dont consider you a
foe,
I consider you a broken piece, but dont let that slow you down while
trying to
save face for my pointing out the soulessness of your endeavors
.
Dennis,
In that epic Emma thread, many of your one time pals including
myself gazed in dismay and near disbelief before abandoning you after
our
polite requests to see the data regarding exactly what the deal is
.. were dealt with by your name calling , insults,.and obfuscations,
instead of replies.We are all still waiting for some simple straight
answers. None of us,
however,are holding our breath. While you continue to pose, we have
many
things that we must do for the cause that you abandoned for the
comfort of a
slaver's dollar.
Arnie Lerma
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
http://www.Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
WE COME BACK
for our friends and family
to get them out of scientology
before they end up here:
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
Hey kids, LAUGH at Scientology today!
http://www.lermanet.us/SPEpisode912TrappedintheCloset.rm
Rev Dennis L Erlich
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> All it needs is to do is have any contributory effect, even
>subliminal..
>and you arn't arguing with me dennis, you are now arguing with
>science,
>I don't care whether you care to understand it, I dont consider you a
>foe,
>I consider you a broken piece, but dont let that slow you down while
>trying to
>save face for my pointing out the soulessness of your endeavors
This drivel passes for logical thought to some. All a person would
have to do is hold the cans to know that there is no endorphin
stimulation. But no. Invent theories that say why it must be so and
then you can imagine the feeling all you want.
I spose emeter drills get people just as high.
Yah right.
Lerm's FOS once again, and no one wants to point out his new suit of
clown clothes.
R. Hill
I'm unconvinced by the emeter-endorphin theory too. A theory must also
take into account what it doesn't explain. And this one doesn't
explain a lot of other things, few examples:
* There are other destructive cults out there, the members don't use
electricity (example: "flying planes into skyscrapers")
* There are many addictions which have been found to cause changes in
the brain, and no electricity is involved
* I remember posting a *very long time* ago a couple of articles from
pubmed *not* supporting this theory. Any honest assessment of a theory
must *also* find a way to include the contradicting observations
* A discussion about a particular theory must also assess and present
alternative explanations
* As someone else noted, how come people are not addicted to holding
two cans alone? If it were intrinsically addictive, it's reasonable to
think there would already be such an addiction
* I have a problem when a *theory* is presented as if it were a fact
("Scientology's Biggest Secret")
* [add here all other points sceptics have presented which are not
covered above]
I have too much respect in scientific truth, it makes me cringe when
the modesty intrinsic to genuine scientific exploration is absent.
Ray.
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>I have too much respect in scientific truth, it makes me cringe when
>the modesty intrinsic to genuine scientific exploration is absent.
And in an example so easily disproved in reality. Perhaps if we
believe hard enough that endorphins are swimming around in our brains
because the electrons from a 9 volt are stimulating them ... we will
feel better reeeel soon. Sure.
So everyone start licking your 9 volt batteries and repeat after me!
Hip-hip-hurrah for the lerm and his wonderuss triumph ... trolling the
nonys with an endorphin turd.
D
-----------------
"Everybody's doin' somethin'
I heard it in a dream
But when there's too much of nothing
It just makes a fella mean." - B Dylan
Henri Ladd
> On Feb 14, 8:51 pm, Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Feb 14, 5:25 pm, Rev Dennis L Erlich <infor...@informer.org> wrote:
>>
>>Keep it up. You just prove over and over again just who you are here
>>on behalf of.
>
>
> I'm unconvinced by the emeter-endorphin theory too. A theory must also
> take into account what it doesn't explain. And this one doesn't
> explain a lot of other things, few examples:
>
> * There are other destructive cults out there, the members don't use
> electricity (example: "flying planes into skyscrapers")
> * There are many addictions which have been found to cause changes in
> the brain, and no electricity is involved
Electricity is always found in the brain. It is how the nerves fire.
You knew that right? You know what an electolyte is right?
R. Hill
> R. Hill wrote:
<snip>
> > I'm unconvinced by the emeter-endorphin theory too. A theory must also
> > take into account what it doesn't explain. And this one doesn't
> > explain a lot of other things, few examples:
>
> > * There are other destructive cults out there, the members don't use
> > electricity (example: "flying planes into skyscrapers")
> > * There are many addictions which have been found to cause changes in
> > the brain, and no electricity is involved
>
> Electricity is always found in the brain. It is how the nerves fire.
> You knew that right? You know what an electolyte is right?
Assuming for an instant I would answer "no" to your question, would
that make my comments invalid?
Ray.
<snip>
Rev Dennis L Erlich
tom&jerry wrote
>> Electricity is always found in the brain. It is how the nerves fire.
>> You knew that right? You know what an electolyte is right?
Duh.
R
>Assuming for an instant I would answer "no" to your question, would
>that make my comments invalid?
Lerm's preposterous emeter/endolphin inanity and his patented "naZi
bRainWahShing" bushit are both excellent examples of how he works his
Mystical Manipulation on the noobs here.
Hey Nonys ... YHBT.
Rasta Robert
> On Feb 14, 1:07 pm, Rasta Robert <r...@dds.nl.ReMoVe_ThIs.invalid>
> wrote:
>> On 2008-02-14, <anothersurfer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Feb 13, 6:28 pm, "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!"
>> ><ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> holy cat fish batman
>>
>
>> a AA battery so one hand/finger touches the + and the other hand the -
>> contact would also give a high. As far as I know it is possible to
>> create a anaestetic effect of brainwave entrainment only pulsed and
>> AC currents are used/effective, not DC current.
>
>
> right, only AC, because DC is known to be detrimental to health
> American Academy of Pain Management
No, it just doesn't work without introducing a frequency.
> "Pomerantz (1981) has also shown by naloxone blocking studies that
> endorphins are only released at PRR settings of 8 Hertz or less."
> Daniel L. Kirsch, Ph.D. Fred N. Lerner, Ph.D.
>
> 8 hz or less... DC, being 0 hz, is as less as you can get!!
0 Hz mean there is NO frequency at all, frequency means periodical
changes, and it is periodically changing electricity within a certain
frequency range, incidentally corresponding with ranges of brainwave
frequencies from low alpha and down. There likely is a border below
which is gets less effective too, probably below the Delta range
of brain wave frequencies. Nerves also do not conduct DC but transfer
signals by way of pulses (firing) withing a certain range of frequencies.
It is a nice story/meme but as far as I've been looking into it
based on quite unfounded extrapolations of observations and
resulting in pseudo-scientific superstition. Superficially it
sounds acceptable, just like it seems to be the case with some
of Hubbard's writing when people fail to see through
the web of illusion he was trying to spin.
John Dorsay
> R. Hill wrote:
>
>> On Feb 14, 8:51 pm, Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 14, 5:25 pm, Rev Dennis L Erlich <infor...@informer.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Keep it up. You just prove over and over again just who you are here
>>> on behalf of.
>>
>>
>> I'm unconvinced by the emeter-endorphin theory too. A theory must also
>> take into account what it doesn't explain. And this one doesn't
>> explain a lot of other things, few examples:
>>
>> * There are other destructive cults out there, the members don't use
>> electricity (example: "flying planes into skyscrapers")
>> * There are many addictions which have been found to cause changes in
>> the brain, and no electricity is involved
>
> Electricity is always found in the brain. It is how the nerves fire.
> You knew that right? You know what an electolyte is right?
You know that neurotransmission is by neuroexcitation, not by
electron flow, right? You know what neuroexcitation is, right?
John
Rasta Robert
Possibly, but not founded in fact.
> and still more at ZERO hertz?
Highly unlikely, transfer of signals through nerve axons
is by 'firing' of synapses, hence pulsed, nerves do not
conduct DC. The effective range of frequencies is most
likely in the same range as EEG 'brain wave frequencies'.
Henri Ladd
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,874198,00.html
How Nerves Work
Every muscular function of the human body is triggered by a small
electrical current transmitted to the muscles through the nerves.
Doctors have long assumed that a chemical reaction at the synapses (the
junctions between nerves) causes the impulses to flow through the nerves
until—through junction after junction—they reach the muscles. But the
chemistry of impulse transmission along the nerve fibers was not known.
Last week Columbia University announced that Dr. David Nachmansohn and
his colleagues in the university's Department of Neurology had found new
evidence to support his 20-year-old theory of the biochemical reaction
By isolating a "receptor" protein, the Columbia biochemists proved that
the same reaction that takes place at the synapse is repeated all along
the length of the nerve. When a nerve is stimulated, a chemical called
acetylcholine is released within the nerve. It combines with the
receptor protein, causing an interchange of sodium and potassium ions.
The ions in turn trigger release of more acetylcholine a bit farther
along the line, letting the current advance. To turn off the signal, an
enzyme, cholinesterase, is released that instantly destroys the
acetylcholine in the nerve.
[...]
John Dorsay
Very good. You understand what that is saying, right? It is saying
that neurotransmission is CHEMICAL. There is no electrical flow.
The nerve impulse MAY be triggered by an elecrtical stimulus but it
is a CHEMICAL process. It is usually chemically stimulated. Your
statement that "Electricity is always found in the brain. It is how
the nerves fire. " is an odd way of describing ion exchange.
John
Henri Ladd
Electrical current is "electron flow" mentioned twice above. Now, the
ebb and flow of electrons may be regulated chemically, but there is
unmistakable electron flow, or "current."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolyte#Physiological_importance
, the primary ions of electrolytes are sodium (Na+), potassium (K+),
calcium (Ca2+), magnesium (Mg2+), chloride (Cl-), phosphate (PO43-), and
hydrogen carbonate (HCO3-). The electric charge symbols of plus (+) and
minus (-) indicate that the substance in question is ionic in nature and
has an imbalanced distribution of electrons. This is the result of
chemical dissociation.
All higher lifeforms require a subtle and complex electrolyte balance
between the intracellular and extracellular milieu. In particular, the
maintenance of precise osmotic gradients of electrolytes is important.
Such gradients affect and regulate the hydration of the body, blood pH,
and are critical for nerve and muscle function.
Both muscle tissue and neurons are considered electric tissues of the
body. Muscles and neurons are activated by electrolyte activity between
the extracellular fluid or interstitial fluid, and intracellular fluid.
Electrolytes may enter or leave the cell membrane through specialized
protein structures embedded in the plasma membrane called ion channels.
For example, muscle contraction is dependent upon the presence of
calcium (Ca2+), sodium (Na+), and potassium (K+). Without sufficient
levels of these key electrolytes, muscle weakness or severe muscle
contractions may occur.
Electrolyte balance is maintained by oral, or in emergencies,
intravenous (IV) intake of electrolyte-containing substances, and is
regulated by hormones, generally with the kidneys flushing out excess
levels. In humans, electrolyte homeostasis is regulated by hormones such
as antidiuretic hormone, aldosterone and parathyroid hormone. Serious
electrolyte disturbances, such as dehydration and overhydration, may
lead to cardiac and neurological complications and, unless they are
rapidly resolved, will result in a medical emergency.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb
1 coulomb is the amount of electrical charge in 6.241506×10 power 18,
electrons or other elementary charged particles.
It is plain to see how 2.5 hours of e-meter auditing can create all
sorts of nuerological havoc.
Arnie's electrical principals and calculations are correct.
Henri Ladd
> "R. Hill" <rh...@xenu-directory.net> wrote:
>
> tom&jerry wrote
>
>>>Electricity is always found in the brain. It is how the nerves fire.
>>>You knew that right? You know what an electolyte is right?
>
>
> Duh.
>
> R
>
>>Assuming for an instant I would answer "no" to your question, would
>>that make my comments invalid?
>
>
> Lerm's preposterous emeter/endolphin inanity and his patented "naZi
> bRainWahShing" bushit are both excellent examples of how he works his
> Mystical Manipulation on the noobs here.
>
> Hey Nonys ... YHBT.
Are "noobs" "bushit" and "nonys" like colon polips in your
proctological, anus-obsessed, spiritual universe Reverend?
Eldon
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 10:49 am, anothersurfer...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 13, 6:28 pm, "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!"
>
> > <ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > holy cat fish batman
>
>
> > > amazing
>
> > >E-MeterDirty Secretshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sDANzyOi4
>
> > > theory based on the research of Bjorn Nordenstrom
>
>
> > > This is gonna cost scientology a great deal of money..
>
>
>
> > I'm not sure the current goes through your entire body.
>
> > Also, is this claim really true?
>
> > "The amount of current you are zapped with during a so-called auditing
> > session is equivalent to the amount of current administered during a
> > session of electro-shock therapy in psychiatric treatment. Electro-
> > shock uses more current for a shorter period of time. "Auditing" uses
> > lower current but for a much longer period of time, resulting in the
> > same amount of electricity inflicted upon your body."
>
> > I could believe it might add up over a period of time. But in one
> > session?
>
> > I know there is plenty of anecdotal evidence regarding addiction to
> > auditing sessions (but whether it is physical or mental or both -- I'm
> > unsure).
>
> > done specifcally on thee-meter. But then, do you know anyone who
> > would volunteer to participate? Heh...
>
> > Another Surfer
>
> When I was IN sea org, I debugged thE-meterproduction line at Delta
> Meter,
> Tory Christman was the red hot blonde with great legs, in white hot
> pants at the reception desk...
> while I was being a wirehead in the back.
>
> 25 years later, this started out as calculation on the back of a
> napkin
> and just kept going...
>
> ive had that stuff on the net for almost a decade,
> and many have said they dont understand it,
> but no one has corrected my math or showed me
> an erroneous assumption in the calculations.
>
> but Im used to folks not understanding technical issues.
>
> "what was wrong" I enjoy telling them,
> "If you understand my answer you could have fixed it yourself..
>
> The values I chose were intentionally conservative,
> considering the degree of apparent controversy, if I erred
> I wanted to err on the side up underestimating it..
Well Arnie, I've always been skeptical -- but not entirely dismissive
-- of your "trickle charge" theory. I'm not sure if the sum total of
electrons matters, but maybe. William S. Burroughs thought the
electricity just tickled the neurons associated with a particular
memory or subject -- something like that.
When I was a kid in Kansas, we would (occasionally and illegally) stun
fish by putting two wires connected to a telephone generator salvaged
from an old-fashioned party line wall phone into the river some
distance apart. The fish would go into a coma, float to the surface,
and you could scoop out the ones you wanted with a net. It was nicer
than dynamite, because the others woke up soon and swam away.
I don't think tossing two E-meter cans into the water would have the
same effect, even after a decade.
Nonetheless, this video is a nice commercial for your theory,
Congratulations!
Even if the "trickle charge" theory is fallacious, you are still a
genius and a prince in my estimation, so take a bow. Hell, Thomas
Edison was wrong about the superiority of direct current, and some of
Tesla's experiments didn't work out very well either ;-)
>
> It may be far worse than *I* even think..
>
> ya know?
>
> ttp://www.lermanet.com/huldaclark.htmhttp://www.lermanet.com/e-metershort.htmhttp://www.lermanet.com/endorphin-emeter.htmhttp://www.lermanet.com/shock1.htmhttp://www.lermanet.com/shock.htm
> _________________
Tom Newton
> On Feb 14, 5:18 pm, "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!"
><ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Feb 14, 10:49 am, anothersurfer...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
Good grief! I've seen an "e-meter" broken apart on my scientologist
friends' table. It is a childishly simple device that measures differences
in skin conductivity.
Whatever "dirty secrests" it has are shared with the average flashlight.
Tom
Eldon
Do you mean the one with the incandescent bulb or the LED array? ;-)
>
> Tom
John Dorsay
> John Dorsay wrote:
>
>> Henri Ladd wrote:
<snip>
>>>>> Electricity is always found in the brain. It is how the nerves
>>>>> fire. You knew that right? You know what an electolyte is right?
That's like saying "Electricity is always found in salt water".
> Electrical current is "electron flow" mentioned twice above. Now, the
> ebb and flow of electrons may be regulated chemically, but there is
> unmistakable electron flow, or "current."
There are transient localized voltage variations cause by the
chemical reaction. There is no electron flow.
Maybe you think electric eels in the ocean are a form of "electrical
current"?
John
Tom Newton
I think "LED array" sounds a lot more sinister, don't you?
:/
Tom
--
calhobbit (at) | Artificial Intelligence:
gmail [DOT] com | When the real thing just won't do.
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>It is a nice story/meme but as far as I've been looking into it
>based on quite unfounded extrapolations of observations and
>resulting in pseudo-scientific superstition.
It induces a kind if pseudo-scientific mysticism in the anti cultists
who need more than facts to tar the cult.
>Superficially it
>sounds acceptable, just like it seems to be the case with some
>of Hubbard's writing when people fail to see through
>the web of illusion he was trying to spin.
Called mystical manipulation. Too bad the nonys fell for it. :(
Rasta Robert
> Rasta Robert <r...@dds.nl.ReMoVe_ThIs.invalid> wrote:
>
>>It is a nice story/meme but as far as I've been looking into it
>>based on quite unfounded extrapolations of observations and
>>resulting in pseudo-scientific superstition.
>
> It induces a kind if pseudo-scientific mysticism in the anti cultists
> who need more than facts to tar the cult.
Agreed.
>>Superficially it
>>sounds acceptable, just like it seems to be the case with some
>>of Hubbard's writing when people fail to see through
>>the web of illusion he was trying to spin.
>
> Called mystical manipulation. Too bad the nonys fell for it. :(
>
> D
Some, not all, I did see that the 'theory' also got picke apart
in a thead on forums.enturbulation.org, anonymous is not a
coherently organised 'group' but a spontaneous collective 'swarm'
of individuals, ideas and memes are introduced, of which some survive,
some catch on for a short while and get rejected and discarded.
I think this is a generation that has been growing up with the
internets as a given, so they are already more used to coming lots of
contradictory information, theories sound and whacky and disinformation,
and are quicker in (collectively) sorting out the validity
and finding and pointing out logical falacies.
I think the anonymous are less prone to keep taking ideas that
turn out to be rather unfounded serious, I wouldn't be surprised
if some replies/parodies would turn up that will debunk it and
have some lulz around it.
RR
barb
> Out_Of_The_Dark wrote:
>
>> You wee fooled into thinking that when you read the OT III materials
>> on the net, that it would make you sick. You posted that, and that you
>> got messed up from it. Thats part of the deception of scientology, to
>
> Could some of the members actually manifest a post-hypnotic suggestion
> to become ill if exposed to OTIII? Perhaps compassion would move us to
> put the Xenu stuff aside and focus on the Crimes and Inhumanities of RTC
> et all. The rank-and-file members have been damaged enough already.
>
If we are to succeed, focus on the crimes and abuses is paramount. What
has to happen is a paradigm shift in people's minds...from whacky
religion to criminal organization.
Lard nose, there is a wide variety of such abuses to select from.
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
I can haz Legion?
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>Some, not all, I did see that the 'theory' also got picke apart
>in a thead on forums.enturbulation.org, anonymous is not a
>coherently organised 'group' but a spontaneous collective 'swarm'
>of individuals, ideas and memes are introduced, of which some survive,
>some catch on for a short while and get rejected and discarded.
Let's hope this one is. There is no shortage of ~factual information~
about the cult and its abusive activities. No need to make up easily
disproved theories that only discredit criticism.
>I think this is a generation that has been growing up with the
>internets as a given, so they are already more used to coming lots of
>contradictory information, theories sound and whacky and disinformation,
>and are quicker in (collectively) sorting out the validity
>and finding and pointing out logical falacies.
This one is too easy to dismiss. When members see it they know
critics are FOS. Emeter drills do not give anyone an endolphin rush.
>I think the anonymous are less prone to keep taking ideas that
>turn out to be rather unfounded serious, I wouldn't be surprised
>if some replies/parodies would turn up that will debunk it and
>have some lulz around it.
I would hope so. Jeeze, this one is just plain stupid.
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
> > chemistry of impulse transmission along the nerve fibers was not known.
> > Last week Columbia University announced that Dr. David Nachmansohn and
> > his colleagues in the university's Department of Neurology had found new
> > evidence to support his 20-year-old theory of the biochemical reaction
>
> > By isolating a "receptor" protein, the Columbia biochemists proved that
> > the same reaction that takes place at the synapse is repeated all along
> > the length of the nerve. When a nerve is stimulated, a chemical called
> > acetylcholine is released within the nerve. It combines with the
> > receptor protein, causing an interchange of sodium and potassium ions.
> > The ions in turn trigger release of more acetylcholine a bit farther
> > along the line, letting the current advance. To turn off the signal, an
> > enzyme, cholinesterase, is released that instantly destroys the
> > acetylcholine in the nerve.
>
> Very good. You understand what that is saying, right? It is saying
> that neurotransmission is CHEMICAL. There is no electrical flow.
> The nerve impulse MAY be triggered by an elecrtical stimulus but it
> is a CHEMICAL process. It is usually chemically stimulated. Your
> statement that "Electricity is always found in the brain. It is how
> the nerves fire. " is an odd way of describing ion exchange.
>
> John
ion exchange is how physiologists, biologists and chemists describe
what in physics and electronics is accompanied by electricity...
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
in 154 AD that guy scribonius largus directed to place his feet on an
electric eel
http://www.lermanet.com/sources.htm
in order to reduce his leg pain..
might say so...
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
you can take the mystery of the E_meter out of mental calculations
if you view the combination of the instructions given to th auditor
by hubbard
to manipulate the device and all its knobs and dials
reduce to a constant current source of 80 uAmps...
for those who would like to wad through the science behind the claims
in that video, here are the links...
some links about the science behind that video.. Ive been talking
about this for many years
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologylegal/endorphin.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/endorphin-emeter.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/e-metershort.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/huldaclark.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/shock1.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/shock1.htm
LaserClam
> electrons or other elementary charged particles.
>
> It is plain to see how 2.5 hours of e-meter auditing can create all
> sorts of nuerological havoc.
>
What would happen if you moved the electrode
that was in left hand to your right hand and
the electrode that was in your right to
your left hand?
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
wrote:
man, I lofted this one on altreligionscientology newsgroup ten years
ago and have been repeatedly attackd for it, by a certain band of
selfstyled uber-critic that likes a certain irc channel...that has
religion in its name.. and defend a movie they have never seen.
There once was a doctor that called me after the raid and lawsuit was
in the Washington Post. He told me of his unfortunate experiences with
a greedy scientology chiropractor...I told him he was right to leave
the practice. He brought me a book one day, and said, Arnie, I tried
to read this and its got too much electronics in it, can you? Would
you read it for me and explain what this man is going on about?
That was Bjorn E. W. Nordenstrom's Biologically Closed Electric
Circuits. It was dense reading, somewhat ebcause the author's native
language was not english, and it was a mishmash of medical terminology
mixed with electronic terminology. It took me considerable time, but
when i got about 2/3rds through it, It dawned upon me what this one
time Nobel prize Commitee JUDGE was going on about.
He was trying to get across the fact that the body is not an amorphous
substance... a wet pile of tissue... that conducts electricity equally
in every direction..
That each individual structure in the body is electrically insulated
from its adjacent structures.
I found this concept logical as well as mind blowing.
Dr Nordenstrom was/is a radiologist. His discovery started with a
faint circle This faint circle was associated with localized tumors of
this type. visible around localized tumors in the lung tissue of a
dog.
"everyone"considered them as 'an artifact' Bjorn was not so sure. He
then sliced the tissue and examined it under an electron microscope..
the area with the faint halo.. about 1 cm radius around a 1 cm tumor.
and what he found blew his mind and mine after I waded through his
dense jargon
He found tiny crystals of magnesium-calcium complexes called
"apatites" the same material as is in your teeth..
He then thought, ok so we have this deposit, spherical... what is this
tumor doing, or what is the body doing.. that is causing calcium and
magnesium to precipitate out of the surrounding tissues...in this
manner.
What he saw reminded him of deposits he has seen in electrophoresus.
He found that some tumors were using electric warfare to evade
detection by the bodys immune system.
He found a slight mV voltage gradient...around these tumors.. . It was
an electrically created phenomena.
He inserted fine wires and gently cancelled out the self induced
currents, and then the immune cells were able to find their targets
again, and the tumors began to disappear,
Western Medicine.. with its penchant for expensive patentable one shot
cures chose to ignore what this giant of science discovered.
I had no choice but to heed his counsel in my war with scientology, On
the same side, that electricity does NOTHING to the body, as
scientology, are power generation companies (transmission lines), cell
phone operators, appliance makers. so many would profit if I lose this
argument, or can be made to appear kooky because I understand enough
to know there IS something of merit here..
So it was a cancer tumor that taught Bjorn Nordenstrom, that
structures in the body are insulated from each other.
from:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_v7/ai_5083812
n 1983 Nordenstrom published a 358-page book covering more than two
decades of experimental work. It's entitled Biologically Closed
Electric Circuits: Clinical, Ex- perimental, and Theoretical Evidence
for an Additional Circulatory Sytem, and it's potentially
revolutionary. Nordenstrom claims to have discovered a heretofore
unknown universe of electrical activity in the human body--the
biological equivalent of electric circuits.
As Nordenstrom describes his body electric, the circuits are switched
on by an injury, an infection, or a tumor, or even by the normal
activity of the body's organs; voltages build and fluctuate; electric
currents course through arteries and veins and across capillary walls,
drawing white blood cells and metabolic compounds into and out of
surrounding tissues. This electrical system, says Nordenstrom, works
to balance the activity of internal organs and, in the case of
injuries, represents the very foundation of the healing process. In
his view, it's as critical to the well-being of the human body as the
flow of blood. Disturbances in this electrical network, he suggests,
may be involved in the development of cancer and other diseases.
The idea that electric currents can stimulate bodily repair, alert
defense mechanisms, and control the growth and function of cells is
not a new one in medicine. Bioelectromagnetics dates back at least 200
years. But the field picked up a dubious reputation at the turn of the
century, when researchers who had proposed electromagnetism as a
panacea were proved wrong, and the stigma has lingered ever since.
Enter Nordenstrom. His book is neither an esoteric piece of theorizing
nor the result of a single isolated experiment. He backs up his
statements, theories, and conclusions with a wealth of meticulous and
ingenious experiments, with one clinical observation after another,
with theoretical proofs, and with known facts. He makes a strong case,
and, at least as far as he's concerned, he has proved it.
Nordenstrom doesn't spare his medical colleagues from the jab ofhis
needles. To him their attitude toward electricity in the human body is
almost medieval. Knowing of the ''enormous importance of closed
electric circuits in modern electronic technology,'' asks Nordenstrom
in the conclusion of his book, ''is it seriously plausible that
biology can 'afford to ignore' the exceedingly efficient principle of
transporting electric energy over closed circuits?''
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>in 154 AD that guy scribonius largus directed to place his feet on an
>electric eel
> http://www.lermanet.com/sources.htm
>in order to reduce his leg pain..
> might say so...
I suggest he find an electric eel and stuff it up his bunghole to ease
the brain-fart all his drug taking has induced.
Dennis
ps. IANA proctologist (but with some of the assholes on this ng, I'm
afraid I need to play one to read it)
pps. <plonk>
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
wrote:
anonymousAltF4 wrote:
I see what you are saying:
"Correct, Im not asserting that, stoopidkid was asserting there was a
difference between ion transfers and electricity.. I was stating that
you cant have one without the other..That was :The distinction without
a difference'"
The problem is that your statements are too easy to take out of
context. Strictly speaking, there is a difference between ion
transfers and electricity. Unless you are suggesting that electricity
can never pass though the body without having ionic effect? Never?
Thinking about that one...no, you can pass some through the body
without an ionic effect. and this is what I believe based upon reading
everything ive been able to find on the subject. Some electricity can
pass through the body...at some low level, before it reaches a certain
threshold...cells will respond to femtoamperes, with an ionic pump
response to balance themselves in the environment. To some degree this
is self healing and non toxic... as long as its within th bounds of
whatever the cell membranes can deal with. Cells themselves, the walls
of them have a measurable capacitance, alternating currents can pass
back and forth through a body utilizing the capacitive nature, of the
various dielectric structures. High frequency of course you have skin
effect, but we don't need to deal with that
But, even the TENS machines, I've measured these and they give you a
short duration few milliseconds duty cycle positive series of 5
pulses, and then they give you the same negatively.. to reduce and or
avoid the bad effects of direct current.. specifically the
electrolytic ionization effects...that occur after you overload the
cellular ability to deal with the electrical disturbances of its ion
pumps.
Thus, a static shock, of 20 picoamps, at 250,000 volts ( you walked
across the carpet and touched the elevator panel) does nothing to you.
The femtoampere currents that flow through when your feet are on the
dirt and you're standing up in a field, catching ionized air on a
lovely summer morning in your hair, that doesn't do anything to you..
However, 80 uAmps ( emeter ) for 3 hours - with all the current going
in one direction.. would...cause cellular changes..and not good ones
Quote:
Why am I bringing it up? What, you are immune from critical analysis?
hell no, I learn from every mistake..I am honored to be corrected, but
I loath explaining simple concepts for hours just so I can express an
otherwise straightforward idea,
Quote:
Re: Straw Man -- where did I construct a false reality to attack? You
just agreed with my assertions. Where's the straw man? The fact that
what I wanted to discuss is not the same thing as what you wanted to
discuss does not mine a fallacy make.
understood I replied in haste, after the prior change of topic and
evasion, and considered the referral to electromagnetic theory as
perhaps yet another change of subject, and diversion...see below, and
yes, it has nothing to do with my assertions.
Quote:
Re: ionic current: are you really saying that electromagnetism has
nothing to do with ionic current? Where's your proof? Why is the
unified field theory one of the most sought-after prizes in all of
physics.
Sorry, this has nothing to do with whether ion transfer can be
expressed in coulomb equivalents, that was the point, electromagnetism
has nothing to do with that prior fallacy. So there is nothing to
prove, it does not relate to the topic.
Quote:
Ionic current does not exist without electricity.
Electricity does exist without ionic current.
correct, that was the point I hoped to make.
Quote:
There is no evidence that shows magnetism exists without electricity
or vice versa. Does the evidence not all point to a unified field?
not my issue, certainly, I don't need to invoke electodynamics to
imply there is an association between exposure to electricity and
brain levels of endorphins, that has been demonstrated.
Quote:
Now, prove to me that the only possibility in your theory is that the
electricity from the e-meter influences brain chemistry and that there
is no way the magnetism has exclusive or partial effect and I'll be
impressed. Otherwise, I'll be skeptical.
what for? I never asserted that relation, You brought it up, I noted
it had nothing to do with it. if there is a current there will be a
magnetic signature, but because we are dealing with direct current
there will not be an induced voltage, except where the conductors are
in motion..
Quote:
Regardless, I am still skeptical that the e-meter has any significant
electromagnetic effects on the human brain.
Im skeptical that the emeter has any electroMAGNETIC effect on the
human brain also.
The effects that have been measured clinically are that peripheral
electrical contact effects are capable of inducing changes in in the
brain
And the Emeter does make peripheral contact with the body..
and it does pump in 80 uamps direct current...at all times..sometimes
a little more sometimes a little less. If I applied the same energy
given to a scientologist over 3 hours to your hands over a period of 1
seconds you would be dead -that would be 50 volts at ten milliamps, 10
milliamps is considered lethal.. and at THAT high voltage, the voltage
would breach the dielectrics of the body and end up going across the
torso..stopping your heartbeat,.at low currents it goes to your brain!
emphasis MINE:
Electrical Stimulation, Endorphins, and the Practice of Clinical
Psychology
Authors: Ulett G.A.1; Wedding D.2
Source: Journal of Clinical Psychology in Medical Settings, Volume 10,
Number 2, June 2003 , pp. 129-131(3)
Publisher: Springer
Abstract: Recent studies have demonstrated an alternative to drug
treatment for patients presenting with anxiety disorders. This new
technique involves electrical stimulation of the peripheral nervous
system to induce chemical changes in the brain that can support and
promote healing. This method was developed in part from studies of
ancient Chinese acupuncture, but it is noninvasive and does not
require needles, and it does not depend on prescientific rituals or
metaphysical theories. Endorphins, natural neuropeptides active in
basal brain structures, act upon anxiolytic mu receptors. Solid
evidence from fMRI and neurochemical studies show that a simple office
procedure involving electrical stimulation can stimulate the
expression of endorphins in the brain. Patients have demonstrated
symptom relief from this simple adjunctive treatment with a
concomitant reduction in dependency on psychotropic medications.
Keywords: endorphins; anxiety; pain; acupuncture; electrical
stimulation
Language: English
Document Type: Research article
Affiliations: 1: Missouri Institute of Mental Health, University of
MissouriâEURO"Columbia, School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri;
wedd...@MIMH.edu 2: Missouri Institute of Mental Health, University
of MissouriâEURO"Columbia, School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri
"Solid evidence from fMRI and neurochemical studies show that a simple
office procedure involving electrical stimulation can stimulate the
expression of endorphins in the brain. "
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
> > _________________
With the last citation that someone sent me the link to, because of
the recent publicity...
There is not much to discuss about whether it has an chemical
influence on the brain.
The only question is how much.
It cant be so much that folks would notice it easily, or else I would
have noticed it at the time,
having a lifetime of experience in electronics...
I did build one of Hulda Clark's zappers, which provide 5X the dose of
DC as an Emeter..
and yes, I DID notice it immediately... it is this effect that created
HER converts to her parasite destroyng
zapper... basically a 555 timer IC outputting a square wave on top of
a 5 volt DC voltage..
So the issue is, not whether you can hold the cans and get HIGH as
dennis states... it is whether it has ANY effect on CNS chemistry at
all, and the evidence is in, it does, the only question is how much?
Further... the chronic pain cases Ive heard about from ex members....
might be related, Ill say this, the zapper does make me feel good, the
problem is, I only was willing to use it one time, because I knew it
was the damage it caused iswhat is the source of the endorphin
response...
And another factor of immense importance, when opiods were combined
with small amounts of electricty, they appeared to work far better and
lower does were needed..further, individual variances in sensitivity
to electricity is apparant.. the threshold for when 50% of your
subjects will FEEL electrcity is a little less than 500 uAmps, Ive
had ex members tell me that when because of calluses oon their hands
they were instrusted to put the cans under their armpits, that there
they could physically feel the DC voltage trickle...
How Hubbard figured this out, I dont think he did.
There was a period in 1952 in pheonix where they stopped using E-
meters, then they started again...
I bet "ron" just got better 'results' overall giving his rubes a
subliminal electrically equivalent dose of morphine than he did
without the device, and he likely thought it was because HE was so
smart...
And the narcissistic madness of the sociopath took over and voila! we
have scientology!
Hubbard_Sh...@hushmail.com
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> holy cat fish batman
>
> this is a rendition of the E-meter pages
>
> amazing
>
>
> This appears to be an Anonymous rendition of my E-meter Endorphin
> theory based on the research of Bjorn Nordenstrom
>
> Im totally blown away
>
> This is gonna cost scientology a great deal of money..
>
> And save a lot of lives.
>
> any money you still have while being made physically ill and mentally
> addicted by long exposure to the E-meter's electrical effects and
> driven over the edge by an advanced deep trance induction technique,
> that makes that the victim repetitively imagine something that is not
> there....
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/image/couch.jpg
> tom cruise airborne jumping the couch
>
> into a state where you are mentally or even physically unable to seek
> justice for having been defrauded by Scientology's lies.
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/huldaclark.htmhttp://www.lermanet.com/e-metershort.htmhttp://www.lermanet.com/endorphin-emeter.htmhttp://www.lermanet.com/shock1.htmhttp://www.lermanet.com/shock.htm
> _________________
> Who is Arnie Lerma?
>
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
This is great. Keep the exposure coming.
John Dorsay
There is NO ELECTRICAL CIRCUIT involved on neural transmission If
an electrical stimulus is sufficient, it will provoke a nerve
impulse, which is a chemically mediated process. If not, it has no
effect. Nerve impulses "travel" as ions diffuse along the length of
the nerve. It is NOT a process involving electrical conductivity.
Tom's comment "Electricity is always found in the brain." suggests
an understanding of neural activity that Hubbard would have been
proud of.
Sheesh.
Feisty
news:983e2086-117d-4a29...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
The first time I was asked to take the test, I felt the zing right away.
And I think it's different than some who say they feel much better after
doing the purif, as with such physical overloads of vitamins and heat, the
ill state felt creates a honeymoon period after stopping the procedure, and
which, the "student" is asked to write the win story.
I've lost most of my research, but I also remember seeing graphs that show
the period of time where Pavlov used both high and low amounts of
electricity on the dogs. And that for several minutes after either a high or
low dose was administered, the apparatus attached to the dog still showed
signs of the electrical activity levels lingering in the animal.
Maureen
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
> "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!" <ale...@verizon.net>
> wrote in messagenews:983e2086-117d-4a29...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
Ive heard this from people before.. thanks
> And I think it's different than some who say they feel much better after
> doing the purif, as with such physical overloads of vitamins and heat, the
> ill state felt creates a honeymoon period after stopping the procedure, and
> which, the "student" is asked to write the win story.
>
yup
> I've lost most of my research, but I also remember seeing graphs that show
> the period of time where Pavlov used both high and low amounts of
> electricity on the dogs. And that for several minutes after either a high or
> low dose was administered, the apparatus attached to the dog still showed
> signs of the electrical activity levels lingering in the animal.
Yeah, he found that a very slight current, introduced through plates
the dogs front paws were placed on, would make them salivate in
anticipation of reward..
Man that sounds so much like scientology
>
> Maureen
>
Individuals are all different, sensitivity is very different person to
person,
it depends on how much pain has been experienced I'd guess,
I wouldn't be surprised if long term use numbs you up pretty good...
Like these hard core "OTs" ....
and when whatever it does, eventually, wears off,
you might be one hurtin cowboy...
John Dorsay
> ion exchange is how physiologists, biologists and chemists describe
> what in physics and electronics is accompanied by electricity...
So you do think the movement of ions in a glass of salt-water
somehow means the glass "contains electricity"?
I find myself at a loss for words.
John
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
dont be silly
ONLY
If there were a membrane, could you develop an electrical potential
across it
say, like a cell membrane, or the gap between two cell membranes
more here:
http://www.industryinet.com/~ruby/electpropcells.html#ch3
John Dorsay
So if the glass of salt water contains a membrane that isolates
sodium ions from chloride ions then it "contains electricity"?
Henri Ladd
Look John, this is getting tiring. You should study the subject. Any
time you have ionic charged particles in a conductor you have current
flow. if you don't think ill electrolytes are a conductor, fill your
bathtub, get in it with an electric heater submerged with you, and
report back if you felt any current flow. Anytime an electron moves when
there is a difference of potential in the conductor--which is called
voltage--magnetic lines of flux emanate from the conductor at right angles.
I have a first-class Federal Communications Commission commercial
operators license, and a ham radio license. I also studied electrical
engineering at the University of Iowa.
You are not going to get around the physics of this. You're obstinance
that there is no electricity in neurons or muscle tissue is confounding;
especially when the people who discovered this received the Nobel Prize.
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
if you accomplished an unequal distribution by charging it yes,
but the movement of charged ions that is - because it has an extra
electron... is moving that electron...
as a chemist, I can describe a battery by the movement of sufate
ions..
I can also describe a battery electrically, by the changes in
potential (voltage) on
different structures in that battery..
because of the availablity of certain ions, and their propensity to
seek equilibrium
Henri Ladd
> Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years! wrote:
>
>> On Feb 15, 8:37 am, John Dorsay <restimula...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Henri Ladd wrote:
>>> > John Dorsay wrote:
>>>
>>> >> Henri Ladd wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> >>>>> Electricity is always found in the brain. It is how the nerves
>>> >>>>> fire. You knew that right? You know what an electolyte is right?
>>>
>>> That's like saying "Electricity is always found in salt water".
>>>
>>> > Electrical current is "electron flow" mentioned twice above. Now, the
>>> > ebb and flow of electrons may be regulated chemically, but there is
>>> > unmistakable electron flow, or "current."
>>>
>>> There are transient localized voltage variations cause by the
>>> chemical reaction. There is no electron flow.
>>>
>>> Maybe you think electric eels in the ocean are a form of "electrical
>>> current"?
>>>
>>> John
>>
>>
>> in 154 AD that guy scribonius largus directed to place his feet on an
>> electric eel
>> http://www.lermanet.com/sources.htm
>> in order to reduce his leg pain..
>> might say so...
>
>
> There is NO ELECTRICAL CIRCUIT involved on neural transmission
Look here for the schematic diagram of the circuit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodgkin-Huxley_model
If an
> electrical stimulus is sufficient, it will provoke a nerve impulse,
> which is a chemically mediated process. If not, it has no effect.
> Nerve impulses "travel" as ions diffuse along the length of the nerve.
> It is NOT a process involving electrical conductivity.
What do you think is doing the "traveling"?
Henri Ladd
> Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years! wrote:
>
>> On Feb 15, 12:51 pm, John Dorsay <restimula...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years! wrote:
>>>
>>> > ion exchange is how physiologists, biologists and chemists describe
>>> > what in physics and electronics is accompanied by electricity...
>>>
>>> So you do think the movement of ions in a glass of salt-water
>>> somehow means the glass "contains electricity"?
>>>
>>> I find myself at a loss for words.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>>
>> dont be silly
>> ONLY
>> If there were a membrane, could you develop an electrical potential
>> across it
>> say, like a cell membrane, or the gap between two cell membranes
>> more here:
>> http://www.industryinet.com/~ruby/electpropcells.html#ch3
>
>
> So if the glass of salt water contains a membrane that isolates sodium
> ions from chloride ions then it "contains electricity"?
Yes. You've just described a battery, or a capacitor.
John Dorsay
> John Dorsay wrote:
>> Henri Ladd wrote:
>>
>>> John Dorsay wrote:
>>>
>>>> Henri Ladd wrote:
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>>>>> Electricity is always found in the brain. It is how the nerves
>>>>>>> fire. You knew that right? You know what an electolyte is right?
>>
>>
>> That's like saying "Electricity is always found in salt water".
>>
>>> Electrical current is "electron flow" mentioned twice above. Now,
>>> the ebb and flow of electrons may be regulated chemically, but there
>>> is unmistakable electron flow, or "current."
>>
>>
>> There are transient localized voltage variations cause by the chemical
>> reaction. There is no electron flow.
>>
>> Maybe you think electric eels in the ocean are a form of "electrical
>> current"?
>>
>>
>> John
>
> Look John, this is getting tiring. You should study the subject. Any
Did I say I haven't? Someone here obviously hasn't.
> time you have ionic charged particles in a conductor you have current
> flow. if you don't think ill electrolytes are a conductor, fill your
> bathtub, get in it with an electric heater submerged with you, and
> report back if you felt any current flow. Anytime an electron moves when
> there is a difference of potential in the conductor--which is called
> voltage--magnetic lines of flux emanate from the conductor at right angles.
Nerves DO NOT conduct impulses in a manner even remotely similar to
current flowing through bathwater. Have you heard of diffusion by
any chance?
John
John Dorsay
Yes, you can. But you are not describing electrical current. You
are not describing an electrical circuit. The electrical state of a
battery is of interest only when electrical current is conducted via
an electrical circuit from one pole to the other. Whether the
electrical potential exists because of the presence of ions, or a
tiny hamster spinning a magneto, is irrelevant.
As is the suggestion that the brain "contains electricity".
It contains ions and *localized* variations in voltage. Big deal.
No electrical circuits. No electrical switches. No electrical
components at all.
John
John Dorsay
> John Dorsay wrote:
>> So if the glass of salt water contains a membrane that isolates sodium
>> ions from chloride ions then it "contains electricity"?
>
> Yes. You've just described a battery, or a capacitor.
And since a neuron contains such a membrane, and the brain contains
neurons, you say the brain "contains electricity".
I say transient localized variations in electrical potential occur
in the course of the transmission of nerve impulses.
Maybe we are saying the same thing. Which do you think is a better
description?
dptei...@gmail.com
>
> It contains ions and *localized* variations in voltage. Big deal.
>
> No electrical circuits. No electrical switches. No electrical
> components at all.
>
> John
I'm enjoying the back and forth, but I've never heard of anyone
describe the brain and use the phrase "big deal" in the same
sentence. :-)
Patty Pieniadz
Yes, it has nothing to do with the fact that you have no valid
science behind your theory. People who disagree with your
mystical science are "attacking you" not disagreeing with you.
It's an evil plot!
And those disagreeing bastards are really pissing you off
because they are "smart", and some of them talk on an irc
channel that you don't control.
Stop playing the victim of the "meanie" critics that tell you
that your theories don't make sense.
--
Patty
Meanie
Potty Mouth
OSA Goon
Double Agent
Dave's Lab Rat
Minion of the Gypsy Queen
Henri Ladd
Here is the Nobel Prized winning circuit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodgkin-Huxley_model
If you've read carefully what's been posted in this thread you will find
that the switches are chemical reactions that modulate the electrical
impulses through the nerve tissue. Wasn't that made clear to you in the
first Time magazine article at the top of this thread?
You are aware John that all matter has electricity in the fact that
electrons comprise the outer shell of all elemental atoms and revolve
around the nucleus of the atoms?
If the brain were totally dead it would still have electricity because
it still contains mass.
John Dorsay
Please don't encourage me. I need to let these guys have the last
word and move on to other things.
John
Henri Ladd
> Henri Ladd wrote:
>
>> John Dorsay wrote:
>
>
>>> So if the glass of salt water contains a membrane that isolates
>>> sodium ions from chloride ions then it "contains electricity"?
>>
>>
>> Yes. You've just described a battery, or a capacitor.
>
>
> And since a neuron contains such a membrane, and the brain contains
> neurons, you say the brain "contains electricity".
The fundamental process that triggers synaptic transmission is the
action potential, a propagating electrical signal that is generated by
exploiting the electrically excitable membrane of the neuron. This is
also known as a wave of depolarization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuron
What travels, or propagates? an "electrical signal".
>
> I say transient localized variations in electrical potential occur in
> the course of the transmission of nerve impulses.
Again if you have a difference of electrical potential or voltage, or
electro-motive force, which is the truer definition of voltage; through
a conducting electrolytic, you have the movement of electrons. That is
the law of nature, the law of our physical universe. There is no
getting around this.
>
> Maybe we are saying the same thing. Which do you think is a better
> description?
I don't think were saying the same thing: you have been saying that
there is no electrical current flow through the neurons. I say there
is. I say that the electrical impulses are modulated by chemical
reactions, and that the actual transmission of the information is
carried by modulated electrical pulses that imply the flow of electrons
and the flow of electric current.
This of course being the same as what the e-meter does--propagate a
small voltage from the anodes or cans of the meter, through the body in
order to measure resistance in ohms.
No amount of proctological liturgy can change these physical laws--of
what Hubbard called the MEST universe--that the Scientologists have such
a problem negotiating.
R. Hill
<snip>
> You are aware John that all matter has electricity in the fact that
> electrons comprise the outer shell of all elemental atoms and revolve
> around the nucleus of the atoms?
>
> If the brain were totally dead it would still have electricity because
> it still contains mass.
Forgetting for a moment the topic of electricity in the brain:
I cannot be convinced that the e-meter causes scientologists to be
"entranced into a state where they think they are
better" (paraphrase).
And furthermore, I am even less convinced that hallucinations of "body
thetans" are also caused by the e-meter (along with Cal-Mag).
http://www.lermanet.com/shock1.htm
Where I start to cringe, is to read that the above is proven to the
point that "this is gonna cost Scientology a great deal of money."
http://forums.enturbulation.org/viewtopic.php?t=1327&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
Maybe all the above is true, but this theory is so full of holes (and
no, it's not about "ridiculing"), that I just can't brand it as
accurately describing why scientologists are who they are, and why
scientologists do what they do.
I hope you see my point, otherwise call me unreasonable.
Ray.
To You
actually, DESPITE ANY AND ALL EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.
That is how "Satanists" work to obtain the Life Energy from others.
They are most vile, most repulsive creatures, entirely without a
conscience, and LYING PERSISTENTLY.
About the Mathieson 'E-meter,' to the Ship of Fools:
It is a Life Energy Fluctuation Meter.
You - all those being Satanists - are so EXTREMELY INSANE,
I wonder how anybody could stand being in the same room with you,
and probably nobody indeed does.
It's Life Energy - Emotion happens also to be Life Energy, so whoever
called in E-meter (the inventor-developer, Mathieson, I guess) was not far
from the mark.
Only "Satanists" call it a "skin-galvanic meter" "reacting on
skin-moisture."
Being "Satanists," they maintain that, and anything actually, DESPITE ANY
AND ALL EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.
That is a standard quality of such creatures, WHILE they shout "there is
no evidence."
'
What do these Demonic creatures INTENTIONALLY DENY:
The DC current measures, of course, the electrical resistance of the body.
That resistance is - of course - very strongly and very rapidly influenced,
fluctuating, modulated by, LIFE ENERGY FLUCTUATIONS, IMPINGEMENTS,
DEPLETIONS, ENFORCEMENTS, ETC.
HUBBARD IS NOT GOING TO TELL YOU THAT, because he wants control, not
understanding.
I want understanding, and the Demonic creatures, including l. ron hubbard,
will go back to hell, so that we can have peace on Earth.
Did I make myself clear to you!?
KNT hrp&p
(Note: this data can be found in the Human Rights Issues or Fine Particle
Physics series., and is thus copyrighted - 'learnware')
John Dorsay
> I don't think were saying the same thing: you have been saying that
> there is no electrical current flow through the neurons. I say there
> is. I say that the electrical impulses are modulated by chemical
> reactions, and that the actual transmission of the information is
> carried by modulated electrical pulses that imply the flow of electrons
> and the flow of electric current.
No, I am saying a nerve impulse is not the same as the flow of
electrical current. Nerve impulses rely on diffusion of ions. They
travel at the speed of diffusing ions. The ions happen to be
electrically charged. The only electrical flow of significance in
nerve impulses is the flow that accompanies diffusing ions. If you
want to call that "electric current", I certainly can't stop you.
Compare the speed of electrical transmission through the electrolyte
of your choice (it will be a significant fraction of the speed of
light) with the speed of propogation of nerve impulses (which is a
small number of inches or feet per second, I can't be bothered to
look it up) and it is impossible to reach any other sane conclusion.
Not that I am suggesting that will make any difference to you.
John
Henri Ladd
Ray, please address what you think about the proposition that in a 2 1/2
hour e-meter session, roughly the same amount of electricity is passed
through the body, as in one electro-convulsive shock therapy treatment?
I mean don't leave that part out, okay.
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
perhaps you should apply some of Virginia Waddy's study technology
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/studytech/
on this one passage:
To test the hypothesis of opiate-like peptide release after
transcutaneous electrotherapy we measured beta-endorphin cerebrospinal
fluid (CSF) content in 13 patients without pain problems. The results
indicate a time dependent increase of CSF beta-endorphin in the group
of patients studied. This fact suggests that the analgesic properties
of the treatment may be ascribed to an involvement of the endogenous
opiates system, independently from the basal clinical conditions of
the patients.
PMID: 6267542 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
here is another...
This new technique involves electrical stimulation of the peripheral
nervous system to induce chemical changes in the brain that can
support and promote healing. This method was developed in part from
studies of ancient Chinese acupuncture, but it is noninvasive and does
not require needles, and it does not depend on prescientific rituals
or metaphysical theories. Endorphins, natural neuropeptides active in
basal brain structures, act upon anxiolytic mu receptors. Solid
evidence from fMRI and neurochemical studies show that a simple office
procedure involving electrical stimulation can stimulate the
expression of endorphins in the brain.
Electrical Stimulation, Endorphins, and the Practice of Clinical
Psychology
Authors: Ulett G.A.1; Wedding D.2
Source: Journal of Clinical Psychology in Medical Settings, Volume 10,
Number 2, June 2003 , pp. 129-131(3)
Publisher: Springer
That is science...
what you got?
a bunch of blowhards that defend movies they have never seen?
>
> It's an evil plot!
ignorance is not evil
>
> And those disagreeing bastards are really pissing you off
> because they are "smart", and some of them talk on an irc
> channel that you don't control.
>
ha!
> Stop playing the victim of the "meanie" critics that tell you
> that your theories don't make sense.
Oh my dear, doth project too much
Im not a victim, I was merely pointing out a pattern of conduct
>
> --
> Patty
>
Henri Ladd
> Henri Ladd wrote:
>
>> I don't think were saying the same thing: you have been saying that
>> there is no electrical current flow through the neurons. I say there
>> is. I say that the electrical impulses are modulated by chemical
>> reactions, and that the actual transmission of the information is
>> carried by modulated electrical pulses that imply the flow of
>> electrons and the flow of electric current.
>
>
> No, I am saying a nerve impulse is not the same as the flow of
> electrical current. Nerve impulses rely on diffusion of ions. They
> travel at the speed of diffusing ions. The ions happen to be
> electrically charged. The only electrical flow of significance in nerve
> impulses is the flow that accompanies diffusing ions. If you want to
> call that "electric current", I certainly can't stop you.
Yes I want to call that electrical current. It is the same electrical
current that takes place in your lead acid car battery. Electricity in
the car battery is generated by ions also there.
>
> Compare the speed of electrical transmission through the electrolyte of
> your choice (it will be a significant fraction of the speed of light)
> with the speed of propogation of nerve impulses (which is a small number
> of inches or feet per second, I can't be bothered to look it up) and it
> is impossible to reach any other sane conclusion.
Of course the propagation of nerve impulses are hampered by the chemical
modulation of it at each synoptic ending, and a massive routing that the
modulated impulses must take.
Consider the example of AM radio station WABC. The station's frequency
is at 770 kHz. This radio frequency carrier,(RF) travels at the speed
of light. However the audio modulation--or the intelligence of the
message--is at maximum 15 kHz by order of the Federal Communications
Commission. The FCC won't allow any more bandwidth, or information, for
the typical AM radio station because it would take too much space on the
radio dial.
>
> Not that I am suggesting that will make any difference to you.
You're right. It doesn't
> John.
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
> On Feb 15, 5:01 pm, Henri Ladd <hen...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > You are aware John that all matter has electricity in the fact that
> > electrons comprise the outer shell of all elemental atoms and revolve
> > around the nucleus of the atoms?
>
> > If the brain were totally dead it would still have electricity because
> > it still contains mass.
>
> Forgetting for a moment the topic of electricity in the brain:
>
> I cannot be convinced that the e-meter causes scientologists to be
> "entranced into a state where they think they are
> better" (paraphrase).
>
> And furthermore, I am even less convinced that hallucinations of "body
> thetans" are also caused by the e-meter (along with Cal-Mag).
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/shock1.htm
>
> Where I start to cringe, is to read that the above is proven to the
> point that "this is gonna cost Scientology a great deal of money."
>
>
> Maybe all the above is true, but this theory is so full of holes (and
> no, it's not about "ridiculing"), that I just can't brand it as
> accurately describing why scientologists are who they are, and why
> scientologists do what they do.
It has opened many minds door and allows
the recovering scientologists to read the net..
that is a good thing - once THAT is accomplished the guy is
OUT of organized scientology, though it takes a great deal
more time and therapy to completely heal..
If this were not a hot topic, then Hubbard would NOT
have taken that drastic step to turn an Applied philosophy based on
science ( prior to '69)
into something with religious trappings just so he could continue to
use the E-meter. In 1969
http://www.Lermanet.com/LRonHubbard2.htm
and because the FSA had moved against the e-meter as a medcal device..
which is it.. and fell
into the religiosity pit that Hubbard contrives so you could continue
to run 80 uAmp Dc
through his victims so he could more easily pick their pockets.
>
> I hope you see my point, otherwise call me unreasonable.
>
There is nothing as wild in the books of Man as will probably happen
here on Earth.
And it will happen and be allowed to happen simply because all this is
so incredible
that nobody will even think of stopping it until it is far, far too
late. LRH
> Ray.
John Dorsay
> Ray, please address what you think about the proposition that in a 2 1/2
> hour e-meter session, roughly the same amount of electricity is passed
> through the body, as in one electro-convulsive shock therapy treatment?
Do you have even a shred of evidence to suggest the the electrical
current during an emeter session is sufficient to trigger a nerve
impulse? Maybe you should start with that.
I need to resist the urge to reply to your nonsense any further. Do
you suppose that the electric field around my wireless keyboard will
eventually cause that if I use the keyboard long enough?
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
> Henri Ladd wrote:
> Not that I am suggesting that will make any difference to you.
>
> John
decide to lift your finger and then do so,
what traveled to the muscles to make your finger lift?
when Cavendish put a frogs leg on display in the 18th century
and touched it with wire from a battery, it twitched..
are these things related in any way?
does the brain control peripheral muscles through purely ionic
channels?
even if so or a combination
would not such circuitry tend to work in both directions?
regardless of who was "SOURCE"
your mind or Hubbard's E-meter?
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
correction that was Luigi Galvani not Cavendish
John Dorsay
>> Henri Ladd wrote:
>
>> Not that I am suggesting that will make any difference to you.
>>
>> John
>
> decide to lift your finger and then do so,
> what traveled to the muscles to make your finger lift?
>
> when Cavendish put a frogs leg on display in the 18th century
> and touched it with wire from a battery, it twitched..
Nerve impulses can be triggered by the application of sufficient
electrical current. I am not disputing that.
But electrical current below the threshold of stimulation does not
accumulate. Half the necessary current applied twice as long will
NOT stimulate a nerve impulse.
> are these things related in any way?
>
> does the brain control peripheral muscles through purely ionic
> channels?
Yes, that's correct. It's also true of neuroreceptors.
Henri Ladd
> Henri Ladd wrote:
>
>> Ray, please address what you think about the proposition that in a 2
>> 1/2 hour e-meter session, roughly the same amount of electricity is
>> passed through the body, as in one electro-convulsive shock therapy
>> treatment?
>
>
> Do you have even a shred of evidence to suggest the the electrical
> current during an emeter session is sufficient to trigger a nerve
> impulse? Maybe you should start with that.
John, is an really up to you to prove that around 80 microamperes that
flow through the body does not have an effect? Especially when you've
been arguing all along that there is no electricity involved in nerve
conduction.
Or is it your contention that whenever a nerve fires, it fires with a
lot more than 80 microamps of current flow?
> I need to resist the urge to reply to your nonsense any further. Do you
> suppose that the electric field around my wireless keyboard will
> eventually cause that if I use the keyboard long enough?
John what electric field is around your wireless keyboard? Is it a
field of electrons, or magnetic flux?
Let me caution you that overexposure to radio frequency be it from cell
phones, routers or other wireless devices can cause cancer.
John Dorsay
>> does the brain control peripheral muscles through purely ionic
>> channels?
>
> Yes, that's correct. It's also true of neuroreceptors.
Not quite correct. Impulse cross synapses electrically rather than
ionically, I believe (I may be mistaken, but that is my
recollection. The impulse(s) "fires" the receiving nerve if it is
above the necessary threshold. If not, the impulse dies). But the
essential transmission is ionic.