Just the facts, ma'am
Rod Keller
A. J. Danzig <an13...@anon.penet.fi> wrote:
>In the past few months, Anti-Scientologists here on a.r.S. have advocated
>assaulting individuals who are members of the Church of Scientology.
This is false.
>They have advocated a campaign to harrass persons who work for the church.
This also. What camapaign have you imagined now? Are you talking about Brian?
>They have advocated a campaign to harrass persons who employee
>Scientologists with the hope of getting them fired.
False.
>They have
>advocated a harrassment scheme to run up the telephone bills of the church,
>and at least one anti admits doing it on a regular basis.
This one is true. Please do not cost the church a buck by calling
1-800-ENSURUU.
>They have
>advocated stealing and defacing church property, and at least 2 antis
>have admitted doing it (I speak here of physical, not intellectual, property.)
Untrue, unless you're talking about trash picking.
>They have advocated harassing and/or defacing
>the property of non-Scientologists who have the nerve to sell products
>that involve Scientology or are produced by Scientologists.
Untrue.
>And these are just a sample from the things that I bothered to read. In
>fact, many of the antis who post here are so rabid and vitriolic that I suspect
>that the effect of their drivel is often the opposite of their
>intent, because an objective eye can plainly see them for what they really
>are.
This is as stupid as the idea to create an anti-Poodle.
Repost the articles if you have any evidence of any of this. Other than
the phone thing, I think we all admit that happened. This is just dead
agent material. Talk to Cory about putting it on the DA server.
And please, I prefer the name "skeptic" to "anti". Others here prefer
"critic".
--
Rod Keller / rke...@nyx.cs.du.edu
Black Hat #1 / Meatball Target #1 / United Free Zone Alliance
Elron's Inspector / Kha Khan countdown: 9 to go
Merchant of Chaos / Reported to the RTC and OSA 5/4/94
Jeff Jacobsen
[deletions]
: It is also interesting and revealing to read the hate-filled posts of
: Martin, The Squirrelle, Dennis, Chris S., Hans & Franz, RA, Jerry Ladd,
: Jeff Jacobsen and others. Time and again these folks have alleged
: criminal wrong-doing on the part of CoS or its members with little or no
: proof, and yet, who are the real criminals?
Please show me a post of mine where I alleged something and gave no
proof for it. I don't believe I am hate-filled at all. In fact, I'm a
nice guy. Meanwhile, show me where I said the church was being bad and I
didn't provide proof.
I do not advocate doing anything illegal or nasty to the church. All
I advocate is exposing the evil that the church is doing. Of course
there are stupid posts here. Are you new to newsgroups or something???
: -------------------------------------------------------------------------
: To find out more about the anon service, send mail to he...@anon.penet.fi.
: Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized,
: and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
: Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to ad...@anon.penet.fi.
--
------------
cul...@primenet.com for interesting stuff about Scientology(tm)
Jeff Jacobsen anonymous ftp to ftp.primenet.com
PO Box 3541 /users/c/cultxpt OR
Scottsdale AZ 85271 http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~sloth/sci/sci_index.html
Rod Keller
>> = A. J. Danzig
>>assaulting individuals who are members of the Church of Scientology.
>
>: This is false.
>
Never saw it. Repost.
>>They have advocated a campaign to harrass persons who work for the church.
>
>: This also. What camapaign have you imagined now? Are you talking about Brian?
>
>a: The bicycle article
>b: The operators at church organizations who Squirrel readily admits
>harrassing.
>c: The fellow who edited that newsletter that Martin tried to get fired.
>There are other examples.
I have no idea what b and c are. Martin tried to what? Repost and show us
what you mean.
>>They have
>>advocated stealing and defacing church property, and at least 2 antis
>>have admitted doing it (I speak here of physical, not intellectual, property.)
>
>: Untrue, unless you're talking about trash picking.
>
>What about stealing books and/or writing on them?
This was in bookstores, I believe. And it was putting a piece of paper
inside, as I recall. Repost and prove me wrong.
>: >They have advocated harassing and/or defacing
>: >the property of non-Scientologists who have the nerve to sell products
>: >that involve Scientology or are produced by Scientologists.
>
>: Untrue.
>
>No, true. The squirrel again.
So all these allegations come from two articles? Repost and we'll all
judge who meant what to whom.
>: Repost the articles if you have any evidence of any of this. Other than
>: the phone thing, I think we all admit that happened. This is just dead
>: agent material. Talk to Cory about putting it on the DA server.
>
>Anyone who has read the writings of the Squirrel, Martin W. A. Hunt, Jerry
>Ladd, et. al. should recognize it as truth.
Where does Jerry fit in your scheme? I've read all of these, and I don't
recognize what you're talking about. I suspect you don't have this
imaginary "bicycle article", or would be too ashamed to repost it.
Martin G. V. Hunt
> In article <220330Z...@anon.penet.fi>,
> A. J. Danzig <an13...@anon.penet.fi> wrote:
>>: = Rod Keller
>>> = A. J. Danzig
>>>In the past few months, Anti-Scientologists here on a.r.S. have advocated
>>>assaulting individuals who are members of the Church of Scientology.
>>
>>: This is false.
>>
>>are you forgetting the lovely bicycle article??
>
> Never saw it. Repost.
>
>>>They have advocated a campaign to harrass persons who work for the church.
>>
>>: This also. What camapaign have you imagined now? Are you talking about Brian?
>>
>>a: The bicycle article
>>b: The operators at church organizations who Squirrel readily admits
>>harrassing.
>>c: The fellow who edited that newsletter that Martin tried to get fired.
>>There are other examples.
>
> I have no idea what b and c are. Martin tried to what? Repost and show us
> what you mean.
I have never tried to get anyone fired, pal; of course, you could be
talking about a different Martin?
The only discussion about work I remember was congratulating Michael bacon
(a Scientologist) about getting a job.
ttyl,
--
Cogito, ergo sum. Martin Hunt, av...@freenet.carleton.ca &
uo...@freenet.victoria.bc.ca & uu...@fim.uni-erlangen.de
Ricki
In article <181405Z...@anon.penet.fi> an13...@anon.penet.fi (A. J.
Danzig) writes:
>But let me say this:
>Affidavits are not proof. Especially self-serving affidavits.
Then you would be willing to agree that the recent "declarations" in this
newsgroup which attempted to character-assassinate Dennis Erlich and Deirdre
were also not proof?
Rickie
A. J. Danzig
: = Jeff J.
> It is also interesting and revealing to read the hate-filled posts of
> Martin, The Squirrelle, Dennis, Chris S., Hans & Franz, RA, Jerry Ladd,
> Jeff Jacobsen and others. Time and again these folks have alleged
> criminal wrong-doing on the part of CoS or its members with little
> or no proof, and yet, who are the real criminals?
: Please show me a post of mine where I alleged something and gave no
: proof for it. I don't believe I am hate-filled at all. In fact, I'm a
: nice guy. Meanwhile, show me where I said the church was being bad and I
: didn't provide proof.
I don't archive a.r.S. posts (except I did archive the S.P. Declares).
But let me say this:
Affidavits are not proof. Especially self-serving affidavits.
: I do not advocate doing anything illegal or nasty to the church.
Great. Then I apologize to you for the tar. Would you admit that others
here do?
: All I advocate is exposing the evil that the church is doing.
Believe it or not, I advocate exposing evil as well. That would include
anyone (Anti-Scientologists and even church officials) breaking the law.
However, I believe that criminal charges are to be proven in a
court of law, otherwise, anyone can allege anything.
: Of course
: there are stupid posts here. Are you new to newsgroups or something???
No. But I am not so much objecting to the posting of lies and
un-substantiated charges as I am to the fact that they are then accepted
as fact by others. It is worse here then it is in the political newsgroups!
I don't object to the posting of the affidavits. They are first person
charges, and the reader can evaluate them accordingly. Just as I don't
object to Martin or Dennis or others posting their own "experiences". The
reader can judge them by their source.
I do object when others take these these things as proven fact, when in
fact they are not (and some are outright lies).
Mark and Rebecca Hartong
: Believe it or not, I advocate exposing evil as well. That would include
: anyone (Anti-Scientologists and even church officials) breaking the law.
: However, I believe that criminal charges are to be proven in a
: court of law, otherwise, anyone can allege anything.
Exactly. But, A.J., you seem like an intelligent enough person. Surely
you would agree that there are immoral laws. Legal doesn't equal moral.
Illegal isn't synonymous with immoral. Sometimes laws are broken
innocently. Sometimes laws are intentionally broken to serve a "higher
ideal". ("Higher" of course being completely open to personal judgement!)
: I do object when others take these these things as proven fact, when in
: fact they are not (and some are outright lies).
YOU say. But YOU could be lying. You see the difficulty... it's not
enough to claim that someone else is lying, A.J. You have to PROVE that
they're lying.
Rebecca
Martin G. V. Hunt
> It is also interesting and revealing to read the hate-filled posts of
> Martin, The Squirrelle, Dennis, Chris S., Hans & Franz, RA, Jerry Ladd,
> Jeff Jacobsen and others. Time and again these folks have alleged
> criminal wrong-doing on the part of CoS or its members with little
> or no proof, and yet, who are the real criminals?
Arthur, you sneaked a peek, didn't you?
It's no good telling us you didn't; your natter gives you away!
Danzig, You looked at the OT materials posted here! You read them!
Admit it! Now go and clean up those overts. Oh yes; and get some
false data stripping, too!
ttyl, <when you clean up those withholds!>
Deeny3
> Believe it or not, I advocate exposing evil as well. That would
> include anyone (Anti-Scientologists and even church officials)
> breaking the law. However, I believe that criminal charges are
> to be proven in a court of law, otherwise, anyone can allege
> anything.
And if they are not brought to a court of law within the statute of
limitations, do you decry using the information publically against the
person?
In other words AJ, what is your perspective on what was posted about me last
week? I am certain that, given the circumstances, I would have been proven
innocent in a court of law. However, I was denied that opportunity.
Furthermore, there was no Committee of Evidence (at least not that I was
invited to, which would be a shame because of the volume of evidence I had to
present on my own behalf. Also, if I were an Interested Party, Scn justice
policy requires that I be allowed to attend). In other words, NO justice
actions were taken.
I therefore find it interesting that the Scns who expressed any sort of
opinion at all, publically or privately, have assumed I was guilty. This was
not *my* understanding of either non-Scn or Scn justice.
_Deirdre
> > Dead Agent Club Charter Member < <
Vera Wallace
>
> Furthermore, there was no Committee of Evidence (at least not that I was
> invited to, which would be a shame because of the volume of evidence I had to
> present on my own behalf.
>
> opinion at all, publically or privately, have assumed I was guilty. This was
> not *my* understanding of either non-Scn or Scn justice.
>
Hey Tubby -- I am sure that if you requested a Committee of Evidence
you could get one...
Of course you're guilty. That's why you confessed. That's why you
natter. That's why you're so unhappy. That's why you are so fat.
Vera
Homer Wilson Smith
>Of course you're guilty. That's why you confessed. That's why you
>natter. That's why you're so unhappy. That's why you are so fat.
Fat = Guilt?
Interesting. Maybe true in some cases. Always thought it was
true in my case. But you know, Scientology is FULL of fat, ugly
stupid, blind people, who snarf down tobacco all day long, wear eye
glasses so thick they could fill a position at Mt Palomar as telescope
mirrors, and FAT? Well hey, just look at the foot prints in the
cement left behind by many 'OT III's' I have known.
So tell me, exactly what quilt is it that leads to fat? Now
THERE's a LOT of money to be made there, if I knew that one.
Tell me there's no money to be made in Grade II Withhold pulling
technology!
I wanna be a professional 'de-fatter', I would charge $50 an hour
and CLEAN UP!
Of course you gotta remember that some people are thin because
they are BELOW being fat. You know the 'thin as stick' types? They
come UP to being fat once you start auditing them, just as Wide Open
cases come UP to being Black V's.
So you gotta watch out what you promise, you can't go promising
no anorexia case that you are going to help them lose weight. They'll
be mad as hell when they gain 20 pounds and look normal.
Besides being weighty has some advantages, you can just sit on
people and crush them out of existence.
Deeny, meet Vera.
Vera's face, meet Deeny's butt.
Homer
>Vera
Phil
Hey! Next.. me too, me too.
Martin G. V. Hunt
> Hey Tubby -- I am sure that if you requested a Committee of Evidence
> you could get one...
>
> Of course you're guilty. That's why you confessed. That's why you
> natter. That's why you're so unhappy. That's why you are so fat.
>
> Vera
Ah, Vera! You seem to be a veritable treasure-house of culled session
folders, PI gathered details, and enemy files. Tell you what; instead
of just giving us these brief glimpses of your McCarthist/Hoover/Nixon
information files, why not just post the lot?
That way, we can get together the class action defamation/slander
suit to take away your little 3 billion dollar "war chest."
ttyl,
--
Wollersheim offers $3000 for serving cult leader David Miscavige!
Vera Wallace
>
> In article <3imv0u$3...@mars.earthlink.net>,
> Vera Wallace <ve...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Of course you're guilty. That's why you confessed. That's why you
> >natter. That's why you're so unhappy. That's why you are so fat.
>
>
> If I become a Scientologist, will they teach me to communicate
> as well as this?
Oh, what so I am supposed to be happy and uptone that this fatso was
slipping thousands of dollars in her pocket from my pay? That is
unreasonable to ask don't you think Ronnie? I am not talking about
small amounts of money here either. She knows she did it. I know
she did it and if I have to sit here and read her blither and natter,
I am certainly not going to hold back. She will get no respect from
me until she squares herself with the Church in Orange. Better yet,
I think she should turn herself into the police and pay a debt to
society. She embezzled at least $40,000!
Vera Wallace
> >Of course you're guilty. That's why you confessed. That's why you
> >natter. That's why you're so unhappy. That's why you are so fat.
>
> Fat = Guilt?
> Deeny, meet Vera.
>
> Vera's face, meet Deeny's butt.
>
>
Homer,
Thanks - I already saw her butt. It blotted out the sun and made
grown men shudder. No need for further introduction. She stole
my pay checks and she damn well should feel guilty.
Vera
Vera Wallace
> >Of course you're guilty. That's why you confessed. That's why you
> >natter. That's why you're so unhappy. That's why you are so fat.
>
> Fat = Guilt?
> Deeny, meet Vera.
>
> Vera's face, meet Deeny's butt.
>
>
Homer,
Deeny3
> Tubby is a thief and I want her to send back what she
> stole from my paychecks.
> Did you hear me Tubby? Send the money back.
I'd be *delighted* to steal money from your paycheck Snippy. But I didn't, so
you'll have to scream about what a poor victim you are. Make sure you run me
as an item on your PTS rundown dear. Wouldn't want you to miss anyone
important.
_Deirdre
Deeny3
> Tubby, you are the one who is lying and you know it.
No, I'm not. I certainly WOULD know you if you had been on staff while I was.
> How about sending back what you stole from my pay checks.
Not possible to send what doesn't exist.
> You admitted on more than one occasion that you stole the money.
No, I didn't. I confessed on ONE occasion under threat of expulsion.
> You are lucky that you did not get prosecuted.
It makes no difference actually since the CofS would have had to prove guilt
beyond a reasonable doubt now wouldn't they? I frankly would have preferred
to be cleared of all charges in court.
> It does not change the fact that you ripped off the money
> and you probably enjoyed spending MY PAY at the trough.
While you certainly beg to be victimized, I didn't victimize you. Nor does it
change what in fact DID happen, which you seem to know squat about.
Why don't you get your Ethics handlings and stop being the effect of me?
Take some responsibility for that case.
_Deirdre
Deeny3
> Tubby, go ahead, make my day. You've gotta be thinking right now, does
> Vera have the evidence or does she not? I am feeling lucky today?
Hey, you don't have the evidence *I* have. I could easily press libel charges
AND WIN. Not that you have any money to get, but it would be amusing.
_Deirdre
Deeny3
> She stole my pay checks and she
> damn well should feel guilty.
So, why didn't YOU file a complaint with the police department then?
Or is this really all about inducing guilt where none exists?
_Deirdre
>> Dead Agent Club Charter Member <<
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Rachel Kadel
Vera Wallace <ve...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>akee...@uahcs2.cs.uah.edu (Triptych) wrote:
>
>> I had to follow-up to this, even though I'm just posting an 'I agree'
>> message. This is what you become a Scientologist to do? Insult people?
>> If that's all you do, I think that my time would be better spent elsewhere.
>>
>> Aaron Keesler
>>
>
>Tubby is a thief and I want her to send back what she stole from my
>paychecks.
>
>Did you hear me Tubby? Send the money back.
Yeesh. Shades of sixth grade.
Most people, once they've gotten a few years past it, figure out that a
lot of the social interaction that went on in junior high was nasty and
stupid, and there are better ways to treat other people.
Vera doesn't seem to have learned this.
(That last sentence seems the sort of thing one kid would say to another
while giving her an indian burn.)
Rachel
--
Why are you quantizing my cookies?
Rachel Meredith Kadel or, for the adventurously inclined, Bean-na-Sidhe
rka...@fas.harvard.edu
Deeny3
> Vera, what is your grade and training level, and what
> is your post or assignment on ARS?
A more telling question might be Vera's age. Vera acts like a lot of
15-yr-olds I've seen online.
_Deirdre
Deeny3
> If there are any other Scieno's on the pilfer out there.
> (aside from Miscavige, I mean)...
> Get it fast. Get as much as you can. Spend it while you've
> got itso they can't get it back.
> And when you run, take the secrets with you....
No. Bank it in Grand Cayman or Isle of Man (do NOT bank wire it there), get
an email account and write ME. Make sure you've brought lots of evidence of
wrongdoing of others out with you and together we can get a RICO suit going.
_Deirdre
Vera Wallace
>
> Hey, 1) I wasn't; 2) it couldn't have been your pay since YOU WEREN'T
> THERE. Unless, of course, you're lying about your name. If I *was* guilty,
> why wasn't I prosecuted Vera?
Tubby, you are the one who is lying and you know it. How about sending
back what you stole from my pay checks. You admitted on more than one
occasion that you stole the money. You are lucky that you did not get
prosecuted. It does not change the fact that you ripped off the money
and you probably enjoyed spending MY PAY at the trough.
> > That is unreasonable to ask don't you think Ronnie? I am not
> > talking about small amounts of money here either. She knows
> > she did it. I know she did it and if I have to sit here and read her
> > blither and natter, I am certainly not going to hold back.
>
> If you don't, it'll up the damages for libel.
Tubby, go ahead, make my day. You've gotta be thinking right now, does
Vera have the evidence or does she not? I am feeling lucky today?
I'll tell this to the judge and anyone else who will listen. Tubby is
a thief and a liar. She embezzled at least $40,000 from the Church of
Scientology and wrote a confession about this.
> Like I care about respect from you.
>
> The CofS lost the ability to prosecute me two years ago; why don't you ask
> why they didn't seek restitution? Or was it because they knew the
> confession was false?
Hey whether you got out of being prosectued or not doesn't change the
fact that you ripped off thousands and thousands of dollars to feed
your fat face.
> By the way -- you've just shown you don't know squat. The place wasn't in
> Orange.
Oh yeah, where was it then? Did you steal more money from another
Church?
M. Council
[Hmmm...Another Dead-Agent attempt that will not garner an academy award]
So, Vera, at what point does *having money* become important to you?
You with your SoOpEr OhTee PoWeRs?
It is interesting how much value is given to *money* by some
Scientologists I see here. So much value, given to a thing that can
really *only* benefit a 'meat body.'
It seems as though you value money over your fellow human beings, Vera.
And such high-toned comm! How was it coming out of *your* pay? Did you
not get paid because there was missing money?
But shaddup already, willya? Take her to court if you've forgotten
about the 'confession' your Inquisiti^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HChurch had her
sign. Or if you've forgotten about a little thing called the Statute of
Limitations. Don't libel her here, dear. I thought you people were
supposed to have more control than that.
--------------------------------------m. council, human being
Hell, if you understood
everything I say, you'd cou...@luna.cas.usf.edu
be me. -Miles Davis
-------------------------------------------------------------
Peter McDermott
In article <3is5t1$h...@mars.earthlink.net>,
Vera Wallace <ve...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>rne...@media.mit.edu (Ron Newman) wrote:
>>
>> In article <3imv0u$3...@mars.earthlink.net>,
>> Vera Wallace <ve...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Of course you're guilty. That's why you confessed. That's why you
>> >natter. That's why you're so unhappy. That's why you are so fat.
>>
>> Is this supposed to be an example of "high tone" communication?
>>
>> If I become a Scientologist, will they teach me to communicate
>> as well as this?
>
>Oh, what so I am supposed to be happy and uptone that this fatso was
>slipping thousands of dollars in her pocket from my pay?
What difference does it make to you _which_ fatso gets it?
Ol' ElRon never spent it at any health farms while he was coining
it, did he?
--
pe...@petermc.demon.co.uk Cool as fuck!
Peter McDermott
In article <3is6q9$h...@mars.earthlink.net>,
Vera Wallace <ve...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Thanks - I already saw her butt. It blotted out the sun and made
>grown men shudder. No need for further introduction. She stole
>my pay checks and she damn well should feel guilty.
Jesus, the more this woman whines, the more I like Deeny.
If there are any other Scieno's on the pilfer out there. (aside
from Miscavige, I mean)...
Get it fast. Get as much as you can. Spend it while you've got it
so they can't get it back.
And when you run, take the secrets with you....
--
pe...@petermc.demon.co.uk Cool as fuck!
Childers James
>Tubby, you are the one who is lying and you know it. How about sending
>Tubby, go ahead, make my day. You've gotta be thinking right now, does
>Vera have the evidence or does she not? I am feeling lucky today?
The maturity level being displayed is truly amazing. Tubby, indeed. And
judging by the last sentence, Vera has a Dirty Harry complex: "So ask
yourself, do ya feel lucky, punk?"
>Hey whether you got out of being prosectued or not doesn't change the
>fact that you ripped off thousands and thousands of dollars to feed
>your fat face.
The fact seems to be that she wasn't prosecuted. You have admitted as
much. If you have some evidence to prove otherwise, please come forward
with it. If not, SHUT DA HELL UP!
--
"Freedom is meaningless unless | ic...@jove.acs.unt.edu
you can give to those with whom| Finger me for PGP public key!
you disagree." - Jefferson | The fnords will show you everything
EA 73 53 12 4E 08 27 6C 21 64 28 51 92 0E 7C F7
Suzy Jones
: In article <181405Z...@anon.penet.fi> an13...@anon.penet.fi (A. J.
: Danzig) writes:
: >But let me say this:
: >Affidavits are not proof. Especially self-serving affidavits.
: Then you would be willing to agree that the recent "declarations" in this
: newsgroup which attempted to character-assassinate Dennis Erlich and Deirdre
: were also not proof?
Hey if these declarations were signed and filed in court, how are they
any different than those of people like Anrdre Tab..(whatever his name is)
and Tonja Burden which I have seen posted here.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
I see you hide behind your anonymous ID. Is that so that you can keep your
postings to the porno newsgroups a secret or are you afraid that your ass
will be DAd if you let the Scientologists know who you are?
Come on Rickie, be brave and let us know who you are.
Tony Sidaway
on a point of fact.
How much good money do I have to pay to reach this state of enlightenment
from my current, unenlightened "raw meat" state?
Is the charisma they extract from the innocent victims being used
somehow to keep Hubbard's demented brain alive somewhere in a vat
of saline?
In article <3itb73$n...@mars.earthlink.net>
ve...@earthlink.net "Vera Wallace" writes:
--
Tony Sidaway
to...@sidaway.demon.co.uk
"The most horrible thing they have done is to put out hundreds of messages
all over the net that say "free phone sex", with the scientologists'
toll-free phone number on it: 1-800-367-878" --an21...@anon.penet.fi
"Poor little clams - snap! snap! snap!" --SubGenius Pope Charles of Houston
Peter McDermott
Vera Wallace follows in the footsteps of Koos and begins having a
conversation with the deceased superstar of Scientology, L. Ron
Hubbard:
In article <3itb73$n...@mars.earthlink.net>,
Vera Wallace <ve...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Tubby, you are the one who is lying and you know it. How about sending
>back what you stole from my pay checks. You admitted on more than one
>occasion that you stole the money. You are lucky that you did not get
>prosecuted. It does not change the fact that you ripped off the money
>and you probably enjoyed spending MY PAY at the trough.
ElRon: That money was rightfully mine Vera. They call it royalties.
Sure, they tried to prosecute me, but I was too sharp for them. I hid
out on the high seas and in the desert, and let Mary Sue take the
rap for me when it got too hot.
And sure, I spent it at the trough. Part of my mission to 'Clear the
Plate'. All good Scientologists should be working on this right now.
It's easy if all you get to eat is beans and rice.
>Tubby, go ahead, make my day. You've gotta be thinking right now, does
>Vera have the evidence or does she not? I am feeling lucky today?
ElRon: Why sure you have the evidence, Vera. Just as Paulette Cooper
had it. And Bent Corydon. And Stewart Lamont. And Russell Miller. All
the evidence is out there. Happily, you are too stupid to believe it.
>I'll tell this to the judge and anyone else who will listen. Tubby is
>a thief and a liar. She embezzled at least $40,000 from the Church of
>Scientology and wrote a confession about this.
ElRon: Hey Vera, where do you get off calling me 'she'? I know I had a
fetish for dressing up in womens lingerie, but that isn't in any of the
books. Has that Mary Sue been talking out of turn? Just as well they
locked the bitch up or I'd beat her ass like I did my first wife.
Broads. When are they gonna realize that they are here to do as I tell
them. Thank god for those nubile little sweeties in my messengers. _They_
don't complain about my little pecadilloes. No sirree. It would be beans
and rice for them if they did.
>Hey whether you got out of being prosectued or not doesn't change the
>fact that you ripped off thousands and thousands of dollars to feed
>your fat face.
ElRon: Yup. And got away with it scot free! Bwahahahahaha!
Tony Sidaway
>
> ve...@earthlink.net (Vera Wallace ) wrote:
>
> >
> >Homer,
> >
> >Thanks - I already saw her butt. It blotted out the
> >sun and made grown men shudder. No need for further
> >introduction. She stole my pay checks and she damn
> >well should feel guilty.
> >
> >Vera
>
> My guess is that we are witnessing an attempt at black
> dianetics, where someone with a little information about the
> mind is trying to find and push what she thinks are Deirdre's
> "buttons", in an effort to upset. I am assuming that the
> intention is to drive Deirdre downscale, hopefully to the point
> of apathy or death.
Thanks for that, Vega. It looks to me like a pretty risky stratagem
both for the church's reputation and for Vera's scale status. Am I
right that, by spreading all this libellous muck about Deirdre,
Vera is driving herself downscale as well as risking litigation?
This "downscale" stuff is all mumbo-jumbo to me, to be honest.
>
> I usually don't save articles from newsgroups, but I just might
> save this thread for future reference.
>
> Vera, what is your grade and training level, and what is your
> post or assignment on ARS?
>
> Vega
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To find out more about the anon service, send mail to he...@anon.penet.fi.
> Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized,
> and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
> Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to ad...@anon.penet.fi.
Lisa L. Pardy
[more nasty comments deleted]
>Vera
Vera:
Are you really named Vera Wallace? If so, why did you sign one of your
messages "Tom"?
Why are you so obsessed with body weight?
Are you going to answer any of the questions people in this newsgroup ask you?
Lisa
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Bob, they can't connect those dots. One of them is in the real world."
- Rev. Dennis Erlich
* * *
Lisa Pardy [expatriate Newfoundlander] pard...@nbnet.nb.ca
feature writing o research o editing o layout o html pages
Vega
ve...@earthlink.net (Vera Wallace ) wrote:
>
>Homer,
>
>Thanks - I already saw her butt. It blotted out the
>sun and made grown men shudder. No need for further
>introduction. She stole my pay checks and she damn
>well should feel guilty.
>
>Vera
My guess is that we are witnessing an attempt at black
dianetics, where someone with a little information about the
mind is trying to find and push what she thinks are Deirdre's
"buttons", in an effort to upset. I am assuming that the
intention is to drive Deirdre downscale, hopefully to the point
of apathy or death.
I usually don't save articles from newsgroups, but I just might
Prignillius
>You have overts on food dear? On nattering (you're doing quite a lot of it)?
>On confessing? On being guilty? On being unhappy?
Uh-ohh!!!
<eerie music swells>
Listing Questions!!!!
>_Deirdre
Prignillius
(adding his vote that Deirdre is a beautiful person)
Homer Wilson Smith
>> postings to the porno newsgroups a secret or are you afraid that your ass
>> will be DAd if you let the Scientologists know who you are?
IMHO the Church is probably keeping names and e-mail addresses of
ALL those who post to the porn newsgroups, so that if in the future
any of them uncloak or they find out who someone is, they can dead
agent them with postings them made to those groups.
Watch it.
NOTHING is sacrosanct with these assholes.
By the way, you can find me on alt.sex.watersports.
I do love it so...
Homer
Deeny3
> off as planned. She's just busy rereading her diaries and telling all
> she can remember to the illegal set up at CoS for the Secret Service
> investigators. And probably to the American Express lawyers too.
Hey, it's end-of-month (tm) and I have a Real Job. You probably didn't notice
I laxed a bit on postings toward the end of Jan. :D
_Deirdre
M. Council
>
> I see you hide behind your anonymous ID. Is that so that you can keep your
> postings to the porno newsgroups a secret or are you afraid that your ass
> will be DAd if you let the Scientologists know who you are?
>
> Come on Rickie, be brave and let us know who you are.
Like "Suzy Jones" is your real name
Anybody else but me notice just how Anglo all those OSA names are?
William Barwell
Suzy Jones <su...@bighorn.accessnv.com> wrote:
>Vega (an12...@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
>
>: ve...@earthlink.net (Vera Wallace ) wrote:
>
>: >
>: >Homer,
>: >
>: >Thanks - I already saw her butt. It blotted out the
>: >sun and made grown men shudder. No need for further
>: >introduction. She stole my pay checks and she damn
>: >well should feel guilty.
>: >
>: >Vera
>
>: My guess is that we are witnessing an attempt at black
>: dianetics, where someone with a little information about the
>: mind is trying to find and push what she thinks are Deirdre's
>: "buttons", in an effort to upset. I am assuming that the
>: intention is to drive Deirdre downscale, hopefully to the point
>: of apathy or death.
>
>
>have quite a temper and doesn't take crap from anyone. I don't think she
>is underhanded enough to figure this out.
>
>Besides, I think Vera is funny and has a lot of spunk although no manners.
>
>--Suzy from Las Vegas -
Nope. It is nmerely an obvious ploy to drive Dierdre from ARS.
She was too effective for Co$ to allow her to be here long.
Now of course, her stuff hgas hit the SS so massive credit card fraud
charges will be something else Miscavige and his cronies will be having
to explain. So Dierdre willl have the last laugh as this trickles
down the system. Dierdre admits she pilfered some cash, paid it back,
was put RIGHT back in the same job by a forgiving church. As designated
patsy so shwe could be blamed apparently for every other theft or plain
piece of incomptetence around the joint. Now since these clowns think
she will be driven off by their jackel yelps, maybe so. But the damage far
greater to the CoS than to her has been done.
So she will have the last laugh keeping up with the problems of this
cabal of chicken chomping geeks. When she takes the stand to testify
against the corrupt regime of Miscavige and crew, I am sure she will think
of you dirt eaters. I don't think she'll be happy. I doubt this will
make David and his cronies happy. I would expect the secret service will
be contacting her right about now about the stuff she sent them.
So if we see her not posting much here, don't think you drove her off
as planned. She's just busy rereading her diaries and telling all she can
remember to the illegal set up at CoS for the Secret Service investigators.
And probably to the American Express lawyers too.
So keep it up fellas. MAKE it a grudge match. You dumb bastards.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
"Bob" loves you!
Vera Wallace
>
> Chris Miller says:
> > Did I miss something?
>
> > What was this confession business all about? I get the idea that this
> > conversation has been going on for a while.
>
> Yeah, about two weeks. An anon poster posted something that was like a
> forced and false confession I wrote for stealing money from the CofS five
> years ago. It should be noted that I was never attempted to be prosecuted
> for this and the statute of limitations has expired.
>
Tubby, why do you keep bringing up the statute of limitations if you
did not take the money. Criminals always like to give themselves away.
Just admit it right here on the net and get it over with Tubs, it will
make you feel better.
I will make this easy for you. I promise I won't comment further on
this if you just admit what you really did. Here is your original
confession. Note by each line what you can confront admitting and
take responsibility for:
"Sums I remember taking w/ pertinent info re: 3 FO 1 Transfers,
in for of cashier's check to Sanwa Bank, for approx $9K, $10K
& $12K, from Jan '89 FSM xfers, deposited May - June '89.
"$700 from cashbox late July - early Aug '86.
$1400 from pay cash box (during off-duty hours - I believe it
was during my Purif) July - Aug '89.
$1300 in cash from pay cash in Feb or Mar '89 near Easter.
$1000? maybe less in cash from pay cash in Apr '89 (1st or
2nd wk?)
$1400 in cash from pay cash in Feb '88.
$ 500 in cash from pay cash in Feb '89. (early?)
$ 600 in cash from pay cash in Mar '89.
(signature) Deirdre L. Maloy"
Vera
Vera Wallace
> I'd be *delighted* to steal money from your paycheck Snippy. But I didn't, so
> you'll have to scream about what a poor victim you are.
Tubby,
You finally admit your desire to steal so brazenly. Kind of contrary
to all your ealier attempts to deny it. I *know* you. I *know* what
you did. Your constant denials make you look like a fat fool.
Vera
David Talbot
>
> Vera, you have not responded to any of the posts I or others have written on
> this topic. I would really appreciate some acknowledgement of this one.
>
> I have been lurking and reading Deirdre's posts for a long time.
>
> I couldn't care less if she was fat or not. No-one here could. You do not
> seem to understand this. Let me say it again. We don't care.
>
Really Vera has a right to be upset. It is pretty clear to me that
Deirdre was involved in a theft when they were at the Church in Orange
County. I mean how do you feel about embezzlement. I know I don't
like it at all and it would take someone pretty low to do it.
Talbot
Tony Sidaway
d...@covina.lightside.com "David Talbot" writes:
> to...@sidaway.demon.co.uk (Tony Sidaway) wrote:
> >
> > Vera demonstrates the Scientologist's superb ability to ignore a correction
> > on a point of fact.
> >
> > How much good money do I have to pay to reach this state of enlightenment
> > from my current, unenlightened "raw meat" state?
> >
> > Is the charisma they extract from the innocent victims being used
> > somehow to keep Hubbard's demented brain alive somewhere in a vat
> > of saline?
> >
>
> Sideways,
>
> What was the "point of fact"?
>
> You think she shouldn't refund
>
> the money because she wasn't prosecuted?
What money?
If she wasn't prosecuted she isn't guilty.
She owes nothing.
You attack her because she has the dirt on the cult.
--
Tony Sidaway
to...@sidaway.demon.co.uk
"The most horrible thing they have done is to put out hundreds of messages
all over the net that say "free phone sex", with the scientologists'
toll-free phone number on it: 1-800-367-8788" --an21...@anon.penet.fi
William Barwell
M. Council <cou...@luna.cas.usf.edu> wrote:
>On 27 Feb 1995, Suzy Jones wrote:
>
>>
>> I see you hide behind your anonymous ID. Is that so that you can keep your
>> postings to the porno newsgroups a secret or are you afraid that your ass
>> will be DAd if you let the Scientologists know who you are?
>>
>> Come on Rickie, be brave and let us know who you are.
>
>
>Like "Suzy Jones" is your real name
>
>Anybody else but me notice just how Anglo all those OSA names are?
>
A real credit to their race. Their mutha's would be real
proud of their efforts here.
Pope Charles X
SubGenius gonna get your momma!
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Lisa L. Pardy
>to...@sidaway.demon.co.uk (Tony Sidaway) wrote:
>> Vera demonstrates the Scientologist's superb ability to ignore a correction
>> on a point of fact.
>>
>> How much good money do I have to pay to reach this state of enlightenment
>> from my current, unenlightened "raw meat" state?
David Talbot:
>Sideways,
Oh, look! David made a little play on Tony's name! Isn't that cute?
David:
(a) It's been done - see especially Russell Shaw and Sally Hoopers' past
posts. Is it in some "tactics manual" they give you?
(b) If so, could you ask that the tactics manual be updated to include basic
information on how to post using newsreaders, and on netiquette?
Vera Wallace
> Hey, whether she did it or not, you look like a whiney little brat, ten
> years old at best and probably the sort who steals other kids' toys.
Sirilyan,
Typical. The woman (Deirdre) steals over $40,000 and all
you can do is complain because I rib her about
being fat?
What about the money she stole?
Vera
H Keith Henson
CoS. (never had much of a problem with folks stealing from a
theif.) Keith
Sirilyan
> > Hey, whether she did it or not, you look like a whiney little brat, ten
> > years old at best and probably the sort who steals other kids' toys.
>
> Sirilyan,
> Typical. The woman (Deirdre) steals over $40,000 and all
> you can do is complain because I rib her about
> being fat?
Typical. If she stole it, then why didn't the COS prosecute her? The
woman (Vera) whines about forced statements that have NO credibility with
anyone over the mental age of ten, and all she can do is whine because
people don't GIVE A GOOD GODDAMN whether Deeny weighs 30 pounds or 300.
Why do we attach credibility to her and not you? Go look up "ad hominem"
and maybe you'll learn something. Ask your daddy to help with the big words.
> What about the money she stole?
Vera, *sigh* I'll explain it one more time. If Deeny stole anything, why
doesn't she have a criminal record from when the CoS helped prosecute her
in a court of law? Why don't you cite the state, district, or federal
court where this deposition was taken? In other words, Vera, I know
only that the "proof" of Dierdre's crime is the say-so of a whiny,
immature brat who sounds like she's ten years old. Take that into a
court and you'll be laughed back to the sandbox. Now go and play,
Verrie. Go dress up your Barbies and leave a.r.s to the adults.
--
| Sirilyan <siri...@io.com> - The Grey Slacker of the Great White Fnord!
| INWO advocate, Black Coffee Magic wielder, and bilingual too!
| "Only damn fools quote themselves." - me
| <A HREF="http://www.io.com/~sirilyan/index.html">My home page!</A>
STella
Vera Wallace <ve...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Typical. The woman (Deirdre) steals over $40,000 and all
>you can do is complain because I rib her about
>being fat?
>
>What about the money she stole?
Vera, honeylamkinclamcake, it's like this.
I believe that you "rib" her about being fat, probably because your
relationship to food is problematic for you.
I do not believe your unsupported (and possibly libelous) allegations
about the allegedly stolen money. If you wish to change this
non-belief, showing me where she was indicted for the alleged crime
would do a lot. Why did the church not press charges?
Thick is far worse than fat, Vera.
Clever is much better than clear, Dierde.
ste...@netcom.com Steven James Tella
Jerking internet chain since before the Great Renaming
Emulate the clam!!! Clear your plate!
rick davis
: Ron Newman (rne...@media.mit.edu) wrote:
: : In article <3imv0u$3...@mars.earthlink.net>,
: : Vera Wallace <ve...@earthlink.net> wrote:
: : >Of course you're guilty. That's why you confessed. That's why you
: : >natter. That's why you're so unhappy. That's why you are so fat.
: : Is this supposed to be an example of "high tone" communication?
: : If I become a Scientologist, will they teach me to communicate
: : as well as this?
: : --
: : Ron Newman MIT Media Laboratory
: : rne...@media.mit.edu
: I had to follow-up to this, even though I'm just posting an 'I agree'
: message. This is what you become a Scientologist to do? Insult people?
: If that's all you do, I think that my time would be better spent elsewhere.
: Aaron Keesler
: I don't have a .sig, I'm worthless and weak.
And what about the money which Deirdre stole? You jump on Vera because
she won't let Deirdre off the hook for stealing the money, yet you
say nothing to the person who stole the money about whom she complains.
Have you tried to get Deirdre to pay back the money which she stole?
Looks more like you are just interested in shutting Vera up so that
Deirdre does not have to face up to what she did. Forty thousand is a lot
of money.
Rick
rick davis
: Vera Wallace (ve...@earthlink.net) wrote in response to a message by
: Dee...@aol.com:
:
: : Hey Tubby -- I am sure that if you requested a Committee of Evidence
: : you could get one...
:
: : natter. That's why you're so unhappy. That's why you are so fat.
:
:
: *Real* religions let bygones be bygones.
I can't believe you would say that Vera should forgive a $40,000 rip off.
I don't think you would, why should she? Maybe if Deirdre would take
some responsibility for her actions, Vera might cut her some slack.
As far as "real religions" I don't think you want to turn this into a
debate about what other religions have done in the name of their causes.
Rick
rick davis
: No. Bank it in Grand Cayman or Isle of Man (do NOT bank wire it there), get
: an email account and write ME. Make sure you've brought lots of evidence of
: wrongdoing of others out with you and together we can get a RICO suit going.
: _Deirdre
Deeny3 - you are getting very close to an admission here. Do you know what
happened to the last people who had the bright idea to file a RICO suit?
Probably not. That is because they faded from the scene after getting it
tossed out of court about 4 times many years ago.
I am going to do some checking on you at the Orange County Church to see if
what Vera is saying is accurate. Who should I ask for that would know about
you and this alleged theft?
Rick
rick davis
: X-To: lr...@cornell.edu
: For how long Vera? Until you give her permission to stop
: groveling and pleading for her life? How much you selling licenses to
: survive for?
Homer, since you are giving out advice, why don't you also address the
alleged culprit? This is unreal that you would be jumping all over Vera just
because she is a bitch (sorry Vera) while you do nothing to address a
very serious overt act of taking (stealing) $40,000 which did not belong
to Deirdre. It is kind of like how a woman must feel when after being raped
the police interrogate the victim to find out what she did to provoke the
attack.
: That's called make wrong and make guilty and is run out at Grade
: IV. Perhaps you are a tad unflat on this?
You are probably right on this. However, once again, Deirdre's
responsibility is nowhere in this matter and she will never get case gain
if sitting on overts of this magnitude without cleaning them up and
taking responsibility.
: What ever happened to forgiving other's their trespasses lest our
: own not be forgiven. You sound like this is one whopping motivator to
: you, and you just won't even be able to live with yourself until you
: manage to give Deeny a motivator back.
No so. The original overt act was the theft of the money. This
situation will persist until the lies are gotten off the incident and
responsibiilty is taken by the thief.
Rick
David Talbot
>
> Vera Wallace (ve...@earthlink.net) wrote:
>
> : Tubby, why do you keep bringing up the statute of limitations if you
> : Just admit it right here on the net and get it over with Tubs, it will
> : make you feel better.
>
> *you*: just your *postings* are are embarrassment to yourself and all
> Scientology.
>
> --
> Grady Ward +1 707 826 7715 (voice / 24hr FAX) gr...@netcom.com
What's your problem Grady?
Are you trying to teach us etiquette? This is really absurd. You are
filling ars full of trash talk and then dare make comments about
Vera's language.
Your postings speak for themselves. In fact you are doing a great job
on making a record they can show to a judge to demonstrate
just what kind of a foul mouthed disrespectful jerk you are.
Talbot
rick davis
: So she will have the last laugh keeping up with the problems of this
: cabal of chicken chomping geeks. When she takes the stand to testify
: against the corrupt regime of Miscavige and crew, I am sure she will think
: of you dirt eaters. I don't think she'll be happy. I doubt this will
: make David and his cronies happy. I would expect the secret service will
: be contacting her right about now about the stuff she sent them.
: So if we see her not posting much here, don't think you drove her off
: as planned. She's just busy rereading her diaries and telling all she can
: remember to the illegal set up at CoS for the Secret Service investigators.
: And probably to the American Express lawyers too.
: So keep it up fellas. MAKE it a grudge match. You dumb bastards.
Chicken chomping geeks? Dirt eaters? Dumb bastards? Boy, you must have
taken a double dose of your anti-psychosis medication today. Or maybe it
was just too much stuff you smoked in the pipe.
Rick
rick davis
: Well, Vera, no brainless Scientoid need to post secret dossiers about
: *you*: just your *postings* are are embarrassment to yourself and all
: Scientology.
And you are an obnoxious, pompus jerk. A sideline "expert" who has no
personal knowledge. You offer nothing to this debate other than a foul
mouth and bad advice.
Your rantings may give you temporary satisfaction but will look quite
different if you end up sitting in court. So take some advice pal and
clean up act.
Rick
Lisa L. Pardy
>siri...@io.com (Sirilyan) wrote:
>> Hey, whether she did it or not, you look like a whiney little brat, ten
>> years old at best and probably the sort who steals other kids' toys.
>
>Sirilyan,
>Typical. The woman (Deirdre) steals over $40,000 and all
>you can do is complain because I rib her about
>being fat?
>Vera
This one's easy.
We have no proof Deirdre stole "over $40,000".
We have lots of proof you rib her about "being fat".
Which part of that don't you understand?
William Barwell
Look, if you are going to flame me, do it right. "Medication" and "drug"
flames are passe on the net, or just about anywhere, even third rate BBSs.
Such limp flames scream 'clueless newbie'.
Go to alt.flame and don't bother flaming me here on ARS till you've grown
hair on yer little balls. Silly lttle clamhead!
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
Tony Sidaway
d...@covina.lightside.com "David Talbot" writes:
Why would they want to do that? Grady is not in court, and has not
been served or indicted.
His language is not a problem for the poster of this group.
Are you a prude?
Suzy Jones
: ve...@earthlink.net (Vera Wallace ) wrote:
: >She stole my pay checks and she damn well should feel guilty.
: >Vera
: I am assuming that the intention is to drive Deirdre downscale....
: Vega
Wake up Vega to the real world. Theft is theft no matter how you try and
hide the issue. Why do you insist on protecting someone who stole from
others? I take it you were staff in a Scientology organization at one
time and have not been for some time. It's a good thing. What did you
do to the staff in your organization that you wouldn't want us to know about?
You don't have to answer as I doubt you would be truthful in this forum.
-Suzy from Las Vegas-
Suzy Jones
: *sigh*
: Vera, take your transparent dead-agent campaign somewhere else. You came
: onto a.r.s. with absolutely no credibility. Now you have even less. You
: see, a.r.s. has this "Credibility Tone Scale," and right now you are
: operating at -3.0, 'Obvious Hogwash.' Your other posts have been -4.5,
: 'Thinking Everyone Else Must Be Really Stupid' and -2.4, 'Parroting Idiocy.'
: You have no place here if you won't stay on topic. If you have private
: business with Deeny, conduct it in private e-mail.
Here we go - dictating as to what is or is not related to this newsgroup.
Don't you suppose that whether or not this Deeny person stole the money
is completely relevant to whether or not her statements on her have any
validitiy at all.
Lenny Gray
Re: the so-called "theft":
In the church, various written exercizes are done as _just_ that --
exercizes. In evaluating what might be written in such an "exercize",
recall the saying "If it's true for _you_ then it's _true_ (for you)".
Also note that along the path to _finding_ such truth is the
rehabilitation of creativity (a major function of a being's aliveness) --
and recall that "_Lying_ is the lowest form of creativity." The words
"make one up" would _not_ be at all out of line from a facilitator in
getting one through a blockage of the ability to recall or mock-up.
ISN'T THIS TRUE, CHURCHIES, SEMI-CHURCHIES, AND EX-CHURCHIES ?!!!!!
Knowing-how-to-know does _not_ involve "obfuscation", whether it has to
do with your perceived enemies or your friends.
If these battles were being fought with _truth_ rather than the BS I'm
seeing here, I'd be more inclined to describe my _positive_ experiences.
However, Integrity demands that I take the side of _truth_ in commenting
here. And I have to say -- the skeptics are showing more integrity than
"the faithful" in this newsgroup arena.
- Lenny Gray - (Friend of Truth -- not especially against Scientology)
Tony Sidaway
su...@bighorn.accessnv.com "Suzy Jones" writes:
Yes, the origin of a statement does alter its validity.
Observing the origin of every single indictment of Deirdre, I consider
the assertion that she is untrustworthy to be suspect. Everybody else
has spoken up in her support.
Sirilyan
> Here we go - dictating as to what is or is not related to this newsgroup.
> Don't you suppose that whether or not this Deeny person stole the money
> is completely relevant to whether or not her statements on her have any
> validitiy at all.
Suzy, go look up "ad hominem" in a good dictionary.
Then come back here and explain why trying to turn away the subject from
Deeny's original question isn't ad hominem, after all.
While you're thinking up an explanation, you might be busy for awhile.
Be sure to pack a lunch first.
Vega
su...@bighorn.accessnv.com (Suzy Jones) wrote:
>
>Vega (an12...@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
>
>: ve...@earthlink.net (Vera Wallace ) wrote:
>
>: >She stole my pay checks and she damn well should
>feel guilty.
>: >Vera
>
>: I am assuming that the intention is to drive Deirdre
>downscale....
>: Vega
>
>Wake up Vega to the real world. Theft is theft no
>matter how you try and hide the issue.
In the "real world" when people are accused of stealing large
sums of money they are arrested and tried in a court of law.
They are presumed innocent until such time as all evidence has
been presented and they are convicted by a jury of their peers
according to the laws of the land.
Feeling "blame and guilt" is something one feels when one
hasn't confronted and taken responsibility for one's past
violations of moral codes and agreements. That's what Scn
grade 2 processing handles, when it's done properly.
>Why do you insist on protecting someone who stole
>from others?
I'm not protecting anyone. Merely stating that I think that
Vera is working for the OSA with orders to discredit Deirdre.
You seem to know what's going on here, am I wrong about this? I
asked Vera to tell us her training and processing level and
her assignment or post with regard to ARS and to do a simple
Non-E formula. She didn't reply.
>I take it you were staff in a Scientology organization at
>one time and have not been for some time. It's a good
>thing. What did you do to the staff in your
>organization that you wouldn't want us to know about?
>You don't have to answer as I doubt you would be
>truthful in this forum.
Sorry Suzy, I'm clear on my past.
You asked me which side I'm on. I answered. Perhaps you missed
it?
(See the thread "Which Side I'm On").
I wouldn't answer a question like the one above anyway, since
I consider that it's coffee-shop auditing on top of being a
listing question and invalidative - very out-tech IMHO. Anyone
who's ever had to repair PCs in session from off-line case
actions like this would know what I'm talking about. If this is
typical of what's going on in Scn orgs these days, then it's no
wonder there is such antagonism towards Scn. I challenge you to
present a tech reference that justifies this type of off-line
case action. I refer you to C/S Series 29
CASE ACTIONS OFF-LINE.
I perceive that you and Vera are very concerned with others'
honesty. Are you willing to answer some questions about
yourselves? Please tell us your training and processing level
and your assignment or post with regards to ARS. A simple Non-E
formula would also help.
>
>-Suzy from Las Vegas-
Thanks,
Vega
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The R R M Tweek
>
>Here we go - dictating as to what is or is not related to this newsgroup.
>Don't you suppose that whether or not this Deeny person stole the money
>is completely relevant to whether or not her statements on her have any
>validitiy at all.
Suzy, Both you and Vera are sounding like stuck records.
We heard what you said... forget it though... if we were
susceptible to brainwashing then we would already be shouting
the same stuff you are... obviously, we are not.
--
tw...@ccnet.com tw...@tweekco.ness.com WW4Net-1@11551 DoD #MCMLX N6QYA
**** Regarding the Internet><WWIVNet gateway and other assorted stuff: ****
http://www.io.com/user/tweek/ tw...@io.com IM: Michael D. Maxfield
STella
rick davis <dav...@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com> wrote:
>Grady Ward (gr...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>: Well, Vera, no brainless Scientoid need to post secret dossiers about
>: *you*: just your *postings* are are embarrassment to yourself and all
>: Scientology.
>
>And you are an obnoxious, pompus jerk. A sideline "expert" who has no
Learn to spell.
>personal knowledge. You offer nothing to this debate other than a foul
>mouth and bad advice.
Learn to think.
>Your rantings may give you temporary satisfaction but will look quite
>different if you end up sitting in court. So take some advice pal and
>clean up act.
Learn to write. (Clean up act? Whose? Yours? Why? You *plonk* VERY
nicely, I'm told.)
And please, go fuck yourself with a shattered clamshell.
It'll give you something to do that won't be quite so tiresome for
those of us who can spell, think, and write.
Vera Wallace
>
> On the contrary, you look like the Queen of Denial to me, Vera.
>
> I am beginning to think you must be a closet Suppressive planted
> to further discredit Scientology.
Yeah right,
Planted by Grady Ward...
Vera
The Right Reverend Master Tweek
>> to further discredit Scientology.
>
>Yeah right,
>
>Planted by Grady Ward...
Huh?
--
tw...@io.com tw...@tweekco.ness.com WW4Net-1@11551 DoD #MCMLX N6QYA
Fodder-Line: Kibo Scientology C&S CoS Lawyers Suck Green Card Bankrupcy CIS
http://www.io.com/user/tweek/ tw...@ccnet.com IM: Michael D. Maxfield
Sirilyan
> su...@bighorn.accessnv.com (Suzy Jones) writes:
> >
> >Here we go - dictating as to what is or is not related to this newsgroup.
> >Don't you suppose that whether or not this Deeny person stole the money
> >is completely relevant to whether or not her statements on her have any
> >validitiy at all.
Well, let's see:
The topic is alt.religion.scientology. It's not alt.deprogramming,
alt.flame.CAN, alt.ad-hominem (=alt.flame in a few cases, but flaming is
SO MUCH MORE).
When reading your tech, do you care that L. Ron Hubbard is a convicted
criminal in France (tried in absentia, for he refused to face the French
courts)? Do you scorn high-school dropout David Miscavige? Does it
matter in the least to you that ANY organization where such crimes could
be committed doesn't look the least bit competent?
Deeny's statements are Deeny's statements. Her alleged, unproven crimes
(can you say "allegation", adults and Vera?) are being dragged in for
ad-hominem value, trying to drag us away from what she says to what you
CLAIM she did.
Suzy from Las Vegas, meet ~sirilyan/.tin/kill in Austin.
H Keith Henson
attacks on a former member-critic] writes:
>The woman (Deirdre) steals over $40,000 and all you can do is complain
>because I rib her about being fat?
>What about the money she stole?
Vera, you stated the thefts took place over a period of years. I claim
this is *impossible* in an organization with decent finantial controls.
Therefore, Scientology does not have such controls--and this is *typical*
of criminal organizations. Are you folks so screwed up that you think an
"audit" is something you do with an "E-meter"? Keith Henson
Tony Sidaway
d...@covina.lightside.com "David Talbot" writes:
> gr...@netcom.com (Grady Ward) wrote:
> >
> >
> > Fuck you asswipe. You Scientologist airheads are on *our* turf now.
>
> Great, continue this way and you're credibility level will be very soon
> near zero.
>
>
> Talbot
>
Somehow I doubt you even realise the silliness of that proposition,
"Talbot."
Grady doesn't need to run to some newsgroup for "credibility." He's
just slacking off here like the rest of us. You guys are our toys.
Deirdre
flattened on those sorts of words. And he is a wysiwyg sort of poster as
are several others here. Imho.
_Deirdre
In article <134...@cup.portal.com> H Keith Henson,
hkhe...@cup.portal.com writes:
>David, I don't expect to believe this, but Grady Ward is a *respected*
>person, not just here, but over a considerable stretch of the net.
>He happens to be a little more outspoken than the rest of us, but that
>does not mean that we do not agree with the way he feels.
michele fadda
[typical uninteresting brain dead personal attack deleted]
Dear Tom/Vera/Whoever
> to all your ealier attempts to deny it. I *know* you. I *know* what
> you did. Your constant denials make you look like a fat fool.
>
> Vera
I notice you learnt to stick a whole paragraph of 4 lines together.
You still don't know manners, but this proves some progress and
the rightful desire to improve yourself. You proved you actually
learnt something from reading a.r.s.!!! Good work!
Read a.r.s. long enough and you could eventually manage to
become a civilized human being. It's easy, all you have to do is
starting to think on your own (well, maybe it is not easy for you
now, due to lack of excercise, but it is worth trying.). Believe me.
Michele Fadda