Quotes/info on Hubbard and OTO
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
[START FORWARDED E-MAIL]
To: hel...@online.no
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:30:58 -0400
Subject: Information for You
From: [SENDER REMOVED]
Dear Andreas,
Thank you so much for the work you are doing to help set people
free from Scientology. You website has been valuable for me and my
friend, whose [family member] is being held in a Scientology compound
against his willing after trying to escape.
Below is some information which I hope will be useful for you.
I've followed the Crowley-Hubbard connection and come up with some
interesting things. The sources are given at the end.
I don't have bold and underline, so I'm justing using capital
letters and spacing to separate items. It's not well formatted, but I
hope that the information will be useful.
[NAME OF SENDER REMOVED]
The source of this information is a book called "Scarlet and the
Beast" by John Daniel. It is a book on Freemasonry. It includes
information on Scientology and on the O.T.O. (Ordo Templi Orientis)
because they were founded by Freemasons. Information on Scientology
is in Volume I. There are extensive endnotes and references. The
book can be ordered by phone, using a credit card; the phone number is
800-333-5344. The address is JKI Publishing, P.O. Box 131480, Tyler,
TX 75713, USA. The cost is $43. (Hardback, 947 pages, including 83
pages of endnotes) The author is a Christian who is concerned with
conspiracies and the end times.
There is a connection between the O.T.O. and Scientology. Before
Ron Hubbard founded Scientology, he was the leader of the O.T.O. in
America. The O.T.O. practices human sacrifice. It was founded by
Aleister Crowley, who performed 150 human sacrifices, mostly on boys.
The following material is all quoted from "Scarlet and the
Beast" by John Daniel, Vol. I. It is not in quotation marks because I
wanted to avoid the problem of having quotations within quotations.
ALEISTER CROWLEY AND THE O.T.O.
[The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1,
pp. 429-430.]
Maury Terry, and American investigative journalist, tells in "The
Ultimate Evil" how the O.T.O. got started in our country:
"After internal dissension, elements of the Golden Dawn more
or less merged into the Ordo Templi Orientis. Aleister Crowley won
permission to head a British OTO branch, and the teachings of the OTO
entered the United States with Crowley in 1916, during World War I in
Europe."
"Later, during World War II, Crowley helped establish an OTO
lodge in Pasadena, California, and OTO branches subsequently sprouted
in a number of U.S. cities, including New York and Houston. In
effect, a loose network was formed and already functioning via occult
shops and bookstores, newsletters, ads in the underground press and
other methods."
THE O.T.O. AND THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY
[The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1,
pp. 433-434.]
After Crowley's death, Freemason L. Ron Hubbard acquired the
O.T.O. leadership in America. Robert Anton Wilson, co-author with
Timothy Leary of "Neuropolitics" in 1977, explains that "Hubbard's
system is derived largely from Aleister Crowley.... Hubbard was a
member of Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis in the 19402; and Hubbard
later...invented a system which seems, to those of us who know both,
very similar to the system taught by Crowley in the O.T.O.
Hubbard was initiated into the O.T.O. in 1944 by Aleister Crowley
himself. After Crowley's death, the O.T.O. was headquartered for a
time in Hubbard's Church of Scientology. In 1992 "The Auditor," the
journal of Scientology, reports that there are 146 Scientology centers
worldwide, with 54 of them in the United States and Canada alone.
"Time Magazine," May 6, 1991, reports "700 centers in 65 countries..."
This greater number includes Scientology affiliates, many of
which
are front organizations. "Time" lists them, along with their
frightening implications. Sterling Management Systems (SMS), formed
in 1983, recruits dentists, chiropractors, podiatrists and
veterinarians, guaranteeing them increased income if they attend
seminars and take courses that typically cost $10,000. SMS's true aim
is to hook these professionals for Scientology, who in turn will
recruit their patients.
Another such group, Citizens Commission on Human Rights, is at war
with psychiatry, its primary competitor. The Commission typically
issues reports aimed at discrediting particular psychiatrists and the
field in general. HealthMed, a chain of clinics run by
Scientologists, promotes a grueling and excessive system of saunas,
exercise and vitamins designed by Hubbard to purify the body. It
solicits unions and public agencies for contracts. Narconon is a
chain of 33 alcohol and drug rehabilitation centers in twelve
countries. Some of these centers operate in prisons under the name
"Criminon." Both are classic vehicles for drawing addicts
and cons into the cult. Concerned Businessmen's Association of
America holds anti-drug contests and awards $5,000 grants to schools
as a way to recruit students and curry favor with education officials.
Way to Happiness Foundation has distributed more than 3.5 million
copies of Hubbard's booklet on morality to children in thousands of
the nation's public schools. Applied Scholastics is attempting to
install a Hubbard tutorial program in public schools. The groups also
plans a 1,000-acre campus, where it will train educators to teach
various Hubbard methods.
SCIENTOLOGY RECRUITS FOR THE O.T.O.
[The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1, p.
435.]
In 1967, the O.T.O. in England founded the Process Church of the
Final Judgement soon after the rise of The Beatles rock group. In the
late sixties and early seventies, the Process set up cells in a number
of U.S. cities. Maury Terry says that the Process Church took over
the O.T.O. in the United States. The Church of Scientology reverted
to the position of Blavatsky's Theosophical Society a century earlier
-- that of a recruiting agency for the O.T.O. Terry said of Michael
Carr, who, before his violent death was one of the leaders in the
Process Church and a ranking Scientologist:
"If he's counselling lost souls for Scientology, allegedly
helping them discover themselves, he could certainly be working both
sides of the street and plucking a few out for recruitment in the
Satan stuff. That Scientology movement is fertile ground for latching
onto confused people. He'd have his pick of candidates."
O.T.O AND HUMAN SACRIFICE
[The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1,
pp. 775-776.]
Aleister Crowley, a 33rd degree Mason and head of the British
branch of the O.T.O., performed 150 human sacrifices, killing the
victims with a silver knife. He wrote instructions for O.T.O. human
sacrifices in his book "Magick," published in 1930, p. 93:
"The blood is the life. This simple statement is explained
by the Hindus by saying that the blood is the principal vehicle of
vital Prana. There is some ground for the belief that there is a
definite substance, not isolated as yet, whose presence makes all the
difference between live and dead matter."
"It would be unwise to condemn as irrational the practice of
those savages who tear the heart and liver from an adversary, and
devour them while yet warm. In any case, it was the theory of the
ancient Magicians, that any living being is a storehouse of energy
varying in quantity according to the size and health of the animal,
and in quality according to its mental and moral character. At the
death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly."
"The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or
the Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape.
An animal should be selected whose nature accords with that of the
ceremony, thus, by sacrificing a female lamb one would not obtain any
appreciable quantity of the fierce energy useful to a Magician who was
invoking Mars. In such a case a ram would be more suitable. And this
ram should be virgin -- the whole potential of its original total
energy should not have been diminished in any way. For the highest
spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which
contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect
innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable
victim."
"For evocations it would be more convenient to place the
blood of the victim in the Triangle, the idea being that the spirit
might obtain from the blood this subtle but physical substance which
was the quintessence of its life in such a manner as to enable it to
take on a visible and tangible shape."
"Those magicians who object to the use of blood have
endeavoured to replace it with incense. For such a purpose the
incense of Abamelin may be burnt in large quantities."
"But the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more
efficacious; and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best."
(O.T.O. Law as quoted from "Liber CI" in "Occult Theocrasy," p. 685)
SOURCES
Maury Terry, "The Ultimate Evil" (New York: Doubleday, 1987).
Edith Starr Miller, "Occult Theocracy", 1933. Published in 1980
by the Christian Book Club of America, Hawthorne, California.
Leon de Poncins, "The Dictatorship of the Occult Powers," 1932.
[END FORWARDED E-MAIL}
Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund, Aardalsgata 5, N-4014 Stavanger, Norway
Pho: +47 88 00 66 66 Fax: 90 32 35 46 E-mail: hel...@online.no
home.sol.no/~spirous www.xenu.net www.hedning.no/hedning
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Throughout history it has been the inaction of those who could
have acted, the indifference of those who should have known
better, the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered
most, that has made it possible for evil to triumph."
- Haile Selassie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Starshadow
had her religion falsely accused, I do get a bit annoyed by this
inflammatory and untrue stuff.
Hubbard had plenty of material to criticise. Making stuff up and accusing
him of "satanism" is just stupid. Even the satanists I know don't ascribe to
any of the stuff people mean when they use the word.
--
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow (SP4, KoX) (remove lovesxenu to reply)
"Feminism--the radical notion that women are people, too"
<paul...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8j6mek$k52$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > There is a connection between the O.T.O. and Scientology. Before
> > Ron Hubbard founded Scientology, he was the leader of the O.T.O. in
> > America. The O.T.O. practices human sacrifice.
>
> Um...pardon, but as a member of the OTO, I am afraid your statement
> that we practice human sacrifice is inaccurate.
>
> > It was founded by
> > Aleister Crowley, who performed 150 human sacrifices, mostly on boys.
>
> You are misquoting Crowley...he actually claimed to perform 150 such
> sacrifices a year...for about 20 years. It takes wilfull ignorance
> these days not to know he is referring to masturbation as part of a
> magical operation.
>
> Hubbard's connection to OTO, popular as it is for you folks who dislike
> Scientology to cite one, is that he defrauded a member of the American
> branch of the Order (Jack Parsons).
>
> > The following material is all quoted from "Scarlet and the
> > Beast" by John Daniel, Vol. I. It is not in quotation marks because I
> > wanted to avoid the problem of having quotations within quotations.
>
> Or, apparently, of quoting source material, rather than incorrectly
> quoted excerpts from a secondary source with an obvious agenda.
>
> > ALEISTER CROWLEY AND THE O.T.O.
> > [The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1,
> > pp. 429-430.]
> > Maury Terry, and American investigative journalist, tells in "The
> > Ultimate Evil" how the O.T.O. got started in our country:
>
> Maury Terry was sued for slander by the OTO, by thw way, and forced to
> retract the statements directly accusing us of criminal activity.
>
> > "After internal dissension, elements of the Golden Dawn more
> > or less merged into the Ordo Templi Orientis.
>
> This is absolutely incorrect, as any study of the Golden Dawn's history
> will show. I recommend the scholarly studies of that Order by R.A.
> Gilbert (unlike Maury Terry and other scaremonfgers, Gilbert actually
> bothers to research the journals and other writings of the people he
> writes about).
>
> > "Later, during World War II, Crowley helped establish an OTO
> > lodge in Pasadena, California, and OTO branches subsequently sprouted
> > in a number of U.S. cities, including New York and Houston.
>
> Actually, Wilfred Smith, formerly of Vancouver, Canada, founded Agape
> Lodge in Pasadena, CA. The lodges in New York and Houston (and
> elsewhere, including Washington DC, where I sit as I write this) were
> founded decades later, under the leadership of Grady McMurtry, and his
> successor, Hymenaeus Beta, long after the Pasadena organization had
> closed down.
>
> > THE O.T.O. AND THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY
> > [The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1,
> > pp. 433-434.]
> > After Crowley's death, Freemason L. Ron Hubbard acquired the
> > O.T.O. leadership in America.
>
> After Crowley's death, he was succeeded by Karl Germer, a refugee of
> Nazi opprression who moved to the States.
>
> L. Ron Hubbard was never even a member of OTO, much less an officer in
> it at any level, much less a national leadership role.
>
> > Robert Anton Wilson, co-author with
> > Timothy Leary of "Neuropolitics" in 1977, explains that "Hubbard's
> > system is derived largely from Aleister Crowley.... Hubbard was a
> > member of Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis in the 19402
>
> Dunno if RAW actually says Hubbard was a member - if so, he is
> incorrect.
>
> Scientology may include aspects of Thelema (the philosopical and
> magical system on which OTO operates) - but it is cut-and-paste
> borrowing, like much else of Hubbard's work.
>
> > and Hubbard
> > later...invented a system which seems, to those of us who know both,
> > very similar to the system taught by Crowley in the O.T.O.
>
> No, not really.
>
> > Hubbard was initiated into the O.T.O. in 1944 by Aleister Crowley
> > himself.
>
> Again, flatly wrong. Hubbard never even met Crowley. Crowley did refer
> to him as a probable con man when he got word of his interaction with
> Parsons, in Pasadena.
>
> > After Crowley's death, the O.T.O. was headquartered for a
> > time in Hubbard's Church of Scientology.
>
> Nope. Germer's home (initially in Cherry Hill, NJ, later in California)
> was also his headquarters. After Germer's death, the OTO (at least the
> lineage of which I am a member) was headed by Grady, who incorporated
> it in Berkley, CA.
>
> > SCIENTOLOGY RECRUITS FOR THE O.T.O.
> > [The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1, p.
> > 435.]
> > In 1967, the O.T.O. in England founded the Process Church of the
> > Final Judgement soon after the rise of The Beatles rock group.
>
> Process was founded in New York independently of any OTO lineage.
>
> > Maury Terry says that the Process Church took over
> > the O.T.O. in the United States.
>
> Maury Terry is either incorrect from ignorance or lying here. The
> Process, like Scientology, incorporated some material from Crowley's
> writings...that is their issues, not Crowley's or the OTO's.
>
> > The Church of Scientology reverted
> > to the position of Blavatsky's Theosophical Society a century earlier
> > -- that of a recruiting agency for the O.T.O.
>
> I know several hundred initiates of our 3000 odd members (yes, we, the
> fearsome, world-girdling OTO, that jumps the Church of Scientology, and
> the masons, and everyone else on the planet, it seems, through our
> hoops, number a whacking 3000+ members). I don't know any who were ever
> Scientologists.
>
> >
> > O.T.O AND HUMAN SACRIFICE
> > [The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1,
> > pp. 775-776.]
> > Aleister Crowley, a 33rd degree Mason and head of the British
> > branch of the O.T.O., performed 150 human sacrifices, killing the
> > victims with a silver knife.
>
> Proof of these murders...especially the silver knife part...would be
> good to see.
>
> > He wrote instructions for O.T.O. human
> > sacrifices in his book "Magick," published in 1930, p. 93:
> ...
> > energy should not have been diminished in any way. For the highest
> > spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which
> > contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect
> > innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable
> > victim."
>
> This is the passage which Crowley footnotes to indicate he performed
> thousands of times...and which refers to using his sperm...the male
> child of perfect innocence...as the vehicle and source of energy.
>
> > "But the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more
> > efficacious; and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best."
> > (O.T.O. Law as quoted from "Liber CI" in "Occult Theocrasy," p. 685)
>
> It isn't in Liber 101 - and isn't OTO law.
>
> As I've mentioned before when this kind of farrago pops up, I wish you
> folks would get over this inane tendency to use Crowley and OTO as a
> stick to beat Hubbard. If you absolutely must do so, I wish you'd get
> your facts straight.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Starshadow
Crowley.
--
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow (SP4, KoX) (remove lovesxenu to reply)
"Feminism--the radical notion that women are people, too"
(post snipped because it wouldn't post with all the material intact, and
I'm too tired to snip it in places for comments, sorry.)
paul...@my-deja.com
> There is a connection between the O.T.O. and Scientology. Before
> Ron Hubbard founded Scientology, he was the leader of the O.T.O. in
> America. The O.T.O. practices human sacrifice.
Um...pardon, but as a member of the OTO, I am afraid your statement
that we practice human sacrifice is inaccurate.
> It was founded by
> Aleister Crowley, who performed 150 human sacrifices, mostly on boys.
You are misquoting Crowley...he actually claimed to perform 150 such
sacrifices a year...for about 20 years. It takes wilfull ignorance
these days not to know he is referring to masturbation as part of a
magical operation.
Hubbard's connection to OTO, popular as it is for you folks who dislike
Scientology to cite one, is that he defrauded a member of the American
branch of the Order (Jack Parsons).
> The following material is all quoted from "Scarlet and the
> Beast" by John Daniel, Vol. I. It is not in quotation marks because I
> wanted to avoid the problem of having quotations within quotations.
Or, apparently, of quoting source material, rather than incorrectly
quoted excerpts from a secondary source with an obvious agenda.
> ALEISTER CROWLEY AND THE O.T.O.
> [The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1,
> pp. 429-430.]
> Maury Terry, and American investigative journalist, tells in "The
> Ultimate Evil" how the O.T.O. got started in our country:
Maury Terry was sued for slander by the OTO, by thw way, and forced to
retract the statements directly accusing us of criminal activity.
> "After internal dissension, elements of the Golden Dawn more
> or less merged into the Ordo Templi Orientis.
This is absolutely incorrect, as any study of the Golden Dawn's history
will show. I recommend the scholarly studies of that Order by R.A.
Gilbert (unlike Maury Terry and other scaremonfgers, Gilbert actually
bothers to research the journals and other writings of the people he
writes about).
> "Later, during World War II, Crowley helped establish an OTO
> lodge in Pasadena, California, and OTO branches subsequently sprouted
> in a number of U.S. cities, including New York and Houston.
Actually, Wilfred Smith, formerly of Vancouver, Canada, founded Agape
Lodge in Pasadena, CA. The lodges in New York and Houston (and
elsewhere, including Washington DC, where I sit as I write this) were
founded decades later, under the leadership of Grady McMurtry, and his
successor, Hymenaeus Beta, long after the Pasadena organization had
closed down.
> THE O.T.O. AND THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY
> [The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1,
> pp. 433-434.]
> After Crowley's death, Freemason L. Ron Hubbard acquired the
> O.T.O. leadership in America.
After Crowley's death, he was succeeded by Karl Germer, a refugee of
Nazi opprression who moved to the States.
L. Ron Hubbard was never even a member of OTO, much less an officer in
it at any level, much less a national leadership role.
> Robert Anton Wilson, co-author with
> Timothy Leary of "Neuropolitics" in 1977, explains that "Hubbard's
> system is derived largely from Aleister Crowley.... Hubbard was a
> member of Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis in the 19402
Dunno if RAW actually says Hubbard was a member - if so, he is
incorrect.
Scientology may include aspects of Thelema (the philosopical and
magical system on which OTO operates) - but it is cut-and-paste
borrowing, like much else of Hubbard's work.
> and Hubbard
> later...invented a system which seems, to those of us who know both,
> very similar to the system taught by Crowley in the O.T.O.
No, not really.
> Hubbard was initiated into the O.T.O. in 1944 by Aleister Crowley
> himself.
Again, flatly wrong. Hubbard never even met Crowley. Crowley did refer
to him as a probable con man when he got word of his interaction with
Parsons, in Pasadena.
> After Crowley's death, the O.T.O. was headquartered for a
> time in Hubbard's Church of Scientology.
Nope. Germer's home (initially in Cherry Hill, NJ, later in California)
was also his headquarters. After Germer's death, the OTO (at least the
lineage of which I am a member) was headed by Grady, who incorporated
it in Berkley, CA.
> SCIENTOLOGY RECRUITS FOR THE O.T.O.
> [The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1, p.
> 435.]
> In 1967, the O.T.O. in England founded the Process Church of the
> Final Judgement soon after the rise of The Beatles rock group.
Process was founded in New York independently of any OTO lineage.
> Maury Terry says that the Process Church took over
> the O.T.O. in the United States.
Maury Terry is either incorrect from ignorance or lying here. The
Process, like Scientology, incorporated some material from Crowley's
writings...that is their issues, not Crowley's or the OTO's.
> The Church of Scientology reverted
> to the position of Blavatsky's Theosophical Society a century earlier
> -- that of a recruiting agency for the O.T.O.
I know several hundred initiates of our 3000 odd members (yes, we, the
fearsome, world-girdling OTO, that jumps the Church of Scientology, and
the masons, and everyone else on the planet, it seems, through our
hoops, number a whacking 3000+ members). I don't know any who were ever
Scientologists.
>
> O.T.O AND HUMAN SACRIFICE
> [The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1,
> pp. 775-776.]
> Aleister Crowley, a 33rd degree Mason and head of the British
> branch of the O.T.O., performed 150 human sacrifices, killing the
> victims with a silver knife.
Proof of these murders...especially the silver knife part...would be
good to see.
> He wrote instructions for O.T.O. human
> sacrifices in his book "Magick," published in 1930, p. 93:
...
> energy should not have been diminished in any way. For the highest
> spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which
> contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect
> innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable
> victim."
This is the passage which Crowley footnotes to indicate he performed
thousands of times...and which refers to using his sperm...the male
child of perfect innocence...as the vehicle and source of energy.
> "But the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more
> efficacious; and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best."
> (O.T.O. Law as quoted from "Liber CI" in "Occult Theocrasy," p. 685)
It isn't in Liber 101 - and isn't OTO law.
Rasta Robert
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net <hel...@online.no> wrote
in article <4r0clso8mu2tl3r3u...@4ax.com>
in the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology:
> [NAME OF SENDER REMOVED]
>
> The source of this information is a book called "Scarlet and the
>Beast" by John Daniel. It is a book on Freemasonry. It includes
>information on Scientology and on the O.T.O. (Ordo Templi Orientis)
>
> There is a connection between the O.T.O. and Scientology. Before
>Ron Hubbard founded Scientology, he was the leader of the O.T.O. in
>America. The O.T.O. practices human sacrifice. It was founded by
>Aleister Crowley, who performed 150 human sacrifices, mostly on boys.
hahahaha!
Amusing piece of lies, half truths and misunderstandings.
Goes to show that the scientologist churchies are not the
only ones who come up with paranoid twisted stories to
smear percieved opponents.
Rasta Robert
--//->
--
DDS - Dust Detector Subsystem
The DDS weighs 4.2 kilograms and uses an average
of 5.4 watts of power. The DDS can measure from
3x10^-7 to 1x10^2 impacts per second.
NB: e-mail adress modified against spam-bot adress-snatchers.
ptsc
>The author is a Christian who is concerned with
> conspiracies and the end times.
The author is a nutbag with delusions ;-)
> There is a connection between the O.T.O. and Scientology. Before
> Ron Hubbard founded Scientology, he was the leader of the O.T.O. in
> America. The O.T.O. practices human sacrifice. It was founded by
> Aleister Crowley, who performed 150 human sacrifices, mostly on boys.
The OTO did not perform human sacrifices and Aleister Crowley
did not perform human sacrifices either.
ptsc
Podkayne1
> Hubbard's connection to OTO, popular as it is for you folks who dislike
> Scientology to cite one, is that he defrauded a member of the American
> branch of the Order (Jack Parsons).
Most of "us folks" know that.
--
John Travolta thinks Scientology is wonderful.
But then, he thinks the "Battlefield Earth" movie is wonderful too.
Think about it.
"You have angered the hedgehog, and now you must pay!"
Thomas Gandow
on Hubbards OTO-Connection.
TG
ptsc schrieb:
>
> "Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <hel...@online.no> wrote:
>
> >The author is a Christian who is concerned with
> > conspiracies and the end times.
>
> The author is a nutbag with delusions ;-)
>
> > There is a connection between the O.T.O. and Scientology. Before
> > Ron Hubbard founded Scientology, he was the leader of the O.T.O. in
> > America. The O.T.O. practices human sacrifice. It was founded by
> > Aleister Crowley, who performed 150 human sacrifices, mostly on boys.
>
Byll23
>As I've mentioned before when this kind of farrago pops up, I wish you
>folks would get over this inane tendency to use Crowley and OTO as a
>stick to beat Hubbard. If you absolutely must do so, I wish you'd get
>your facts straight.
Well, what do you expect? They're quoting books published by the "Christian
Book Club of America", who also claim that RPG players are devil worshippers.
:-)
paul...@my-deja.com
> > Hubbard's connection to OTO, popular as it is for you folks who
dislike
> > Scientology to cite one, is that he defrauded a member of the
American
> > branch of the Order (Jack Parsons).
>
> Most of "us folks" know that.
That's comforting, really. I should have been less splodgy, and simply
noted that in these posts, that aspect of the connection is almost
never mentioned, only the magical ooga-booga stuff, and in this case
the claim that there was some connection between the OTO as such and
Hubbard (though this latest post has shot for record in the number of
mis-statements in this regard).
Apologies for taking internet posts as a geniune indication of a
general position...Gods know I should know better than that after all
this time.
Steve Zadarnowski
>Interesting, but the OTO does not do human sacrifice, and neither did
>Crowley.
If I join, can human sacrifice be adopted as practice? I got a list...
S
STella
> "But the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more
>efficacious; and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best."
>(O.T.O. Law as quoted from "Liber CI" in "Occult Theocrasy," p. 685)
Word clear "red wings"!
STella, sheeshing and giggling, and muttering "the enemy of my enemy
is not necessarily my friend"
Dave Bird
(quoting correspondence............)
> There is a connection between the O.T.O. and Scientology. Before
>Ron Hubbard founded Scientology, he was the leader of the O.T.O. in
>America.
who made off with some of their ideas (and money).
>The O.T.O. practices human sacrifice.
Bollocks.
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